Leadership Lessons From The Great Books #52 – The Way of the Samurai by Inazo Nitobe w/John Hill aka Small Mountain

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The Way of the Samurai by Inazo Nitobe w/John Hill aka Small Mountain

  • Welcome & Introduction  – 00:23
  • Inazo Nitobe on Politeness – 02:50
  • Why Be Polite? – 08:47
  • Scaling up Politeness – 17:00
  • Tying Politeness to Empathy – 20:35
  • Does Atomization Lead to an Increase in Empathy – 25:40
  • “No Society Can Survive Anonymity in Communication” – 27:16
  • 15% of Jesan Sorrells’s Over 26K Tweets are Objectionable – 28:15
  • The Problem of the Logos – 30:00
  • Giving Grace and the Benefit of the Doubt – 34:00
  • The ‘Hot Take’ is Probably Wrong – 35:17
  • Pulling Meaning From Disorder – 43:00
  • The Literary Life of Inazo Nitobe – 46:00
  • Revere the Past and Admire the Deeds of the Samurai – 50:00
  • It is Important to Develop Insights and Wisdom Rather than Mere Knowledge – 54:00
  • We are in a Period of Transitional Change – 1:01:08
  • How Does a Leader Build the Right Culture in a Remote Environment – 1:05:10
  • No one Knows Who the President of the US is – 1:12:00
  • Leaders Provide Context – 1:20:00
  • A Loose Business Morality – 1:23:40
  • ESG, Virtue Signaling, and Leadership Discipline – 1:27:00
  • ‘My First Thought Was He Lied in Every Word’ – 1:33:48
  • Misusing Martial Arts Metaphors – 1:41:42
  • Salvador Dali Doesn’t Want to Talk to a Gallery Owner – 1:45:00
  • If You’re Opening a Restaurant, You Need a Chef – 1:50:00
  • You Have Forever To Go Out on Your Own – 1:55:00
  • Sources of Bushido – 2:00:00
  • Wholly Militant and Wholly Resistant – 2:06:45
  • Jocko’s Book is a “Top Shelf” Book – 2:13:00
  • Staying on the Path – 1:39:00

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You. Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells

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and this is the Leadership Lessons From The Great Books podcast, episode number

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52. We are joined today by

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our returning co host from episode number 21,

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which, if you’re counting or scoring at home,

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which you should be, is our most downloaded episode

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of the first 1st year of our August podcast.

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There. We covered a book of Five rings by Miyamoto Massashi.

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So I would like to welcome back to the podcast from episode 21,

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John Hill, aka Small Mountain. How are

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you doing, John? Dude, I am stoked to be back.

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I had a blast last time. I couldn’t wait to share it with all my

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martial arts buddies. And I’m excited to dig in this because I

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think there’s as much greatness in this as there is in The Five Rings.

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Well, we are going to cover a

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whole plethora of topics today. We’re going to talk

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about chivalry and knighthood. We’re going to talk about competency

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and leadership, the need to be polite and cover

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a number of other different areas in our book today by

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Inazo Natobe, the Way

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of the Samurai.

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Now, I have a paperback version. John’s got the

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hardcover version. My version came

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through or was published in 2022

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by Arcturus Publishing Limited out of London,

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out of Arcturus Holdings Limited.

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However, this book was originally published

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in 1900. And so we’re

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going to kind of go through this step by step. And if

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you listen to episode 21, you know that that was one of our longest episodes,

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our longest conversations. It came in at around 4 hours and 15 minutes.

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If you have an opportunity to go listen to that, you should go listen to

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that or you should go watch the YouTube video of that.

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And it’s still, like I said, our most downloaded episode.

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And I’m hoping that The Way of the Samurai today will join

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that episode. So reading from,

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starting from opening from The Way of the Samurai,

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we’re going to go to the chapter again, if you are

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paying attention on chapter six, that’s where we’re going to

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start on politeness. And I quote

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from in his own Natobe when

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proprietary, when propriety sorry, pardon me. Was elevated

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to the sin quandon of social intercourse, it was only to

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be expected that an elaborate system of etiquette should come into vogue

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to train youth in correct social behavior.

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How one must bow and accosted others, how he must walk and sit were taught

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and learned with utmost care. Table manners grew to

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be a science. Tea serving and drinking were raised to

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a ceremony. A man of education is, of course, expected to be master

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of all these. I have heard sliding

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remarks made by Europeans upon our elaborate discipline of politeness.

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It has been criticized as absorbing too much of our thought and insofar a folly

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to observe strict obedience to it. I admit that there may be

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unnecessary niceties and ceremonious etiquette, but whether it partakes

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as much folly as the adherence to ever changing fashions

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of the west is a question not very clear to my mind.

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Even fashions I do not consider solely as freaks of vanity.

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On the contrary, I look upon these as a ceaseless search

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for the human mind of the human mind for the beautiful. Much less

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do I consider elaborate ceremony as altogether trivial,

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for it denotes the result of long observation as to

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the most appropriate method of achieving a certain result.

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If there is anything to do, there is certainly a best way to do it,

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and the best way is both the most economical and the most graceful.

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Mr. Spencer defines grace as the most economical manner of motion. The tea

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ceremony presents certain definite ways of manipulating

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a bowl, a spoon, a napkin, et cetera. To a novice

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it looks tedious, but one soon discovers that the way prescribed is, after all,

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the most saving of time and labor. In other words, the most economical

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use of force. Hence, according to Spencer’s dictum,

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the most graceful.

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I have said that etiquette was elaborated into the finest niceties. So much

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so that different schools advocating different systems came into existence,

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but they all united in the ultimate essential. And this was

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put by a great exponent of the best known school of etiquette the oga.

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The oga Sara, in the following terms

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the end of all etiquette is to so cultivate your mind

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that even when you are quietly seated, not the roughest ruffian

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can dare make onset on your person. It means,

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in other words, that by constant exercise in correct manners,

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one brings all the parts and faculties of his body into perfect order

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and into such harmony with itself and its environment as to express

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the mastery of spirit over the flesh. What a new

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and deep significance the French word Beyonce comes

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thus to contain. If the premise is

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true that gracefulness means economy of force, then it follows as a logical sequence

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that a constant practice of graceful deportment must bring with it a reserve

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and storage of force. Fine manners, therefore, mean power in

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repose. As an example of how the simplest thing

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can be made into an art and they become spiritual culture, I may take

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cha no, you? The tea ceremony tea sipping as

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a fine art. Why should it not be? In the children drawing

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pictures on the sand, or in the savage carving on a rock was the promise

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of a Raphael or a Michelangelo.

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How much more is the drinking of a beverage which began with the transcendental

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contemplation of a Hindu anchorite entitled to

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develop into a handmaiden of religion and morality?

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That calmness of mind, that serenity of temper, that composure and quietness

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of demeanor which are the first essentials of chad. No, you are without

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doubt the first conditions of right thinking and right feeling.

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The scrupulous cleanliness of the little room shut off from sight and sound of

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the maddening crowd is in itself conducive to direct one’s thoughts from the

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world. The bare interior does not engross one’s

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attention like the innumerable pictures in Bricabrack of a western parlor.

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The presence of kakemono calls our attention more to grace of

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design than to beauty of color. The utmost refinement of taste

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is the object aimed at, whereas anything like display is

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banished with religious horror. The very fact that it was

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invented by a contemplative recluse in a time when wars

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and the rumors of wars were incessant is well calculated to show

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that this institution was more than a pastime. Before entering

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the quiet precincts of the tea room, the company assembling to partake

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of the ceremony laid aside, together with their swords the

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ferocity of the battlefield or the cares of government there to

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find peace and friendship.

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Cha no you is more than a ceremony. It is a fine art.

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It is poetry with articulate gestures for rhythm.

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It is a modus operandi of soul discipline.

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Its greatest value lies in this last phase, not infrequently the

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other phases, preponderated in the mind of its votaries.

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But that does not prove that its essence was not of a spiritual nature.

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Politeness will be a great acquisition if it does no

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more than impart grace to manners. But its function does

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not stop here, for propriety spring as

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it does for motives of benevolence and modesty, and actuated

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by tender feelings toward the sensibilities of others is

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ever a graceful expression of sympathy.

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Its requirement is that we should weep with those that weep

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and rejoice with those that

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rejoice.

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Why be polite?

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We live in a communication era

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with an a on the end of that, or a roar R-O-R

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at the end of the er, depending upon your perspective.

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We live in a space in a time where the

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hot take matters more than the slow burn,

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where our Twitter feeds and who

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said what, where on what social media platform, or who clapped

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back on who very quickly seems to

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matter more than politeness.

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We can read these words from the way of the samurai and we can

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absorb them. But to actually practice them, to actually walk them out

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in our daily lives, is, quite honestly, becoming more and more difficult.

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I picked this section to open and to have John and I talk

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about it, because the samurai mindset and that

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is one of the things that we are going to talk about today how to

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adopt a samurai mindset. I’m not asking you to swing a sword

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or to go caught off somebody’s head. I am asking you

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to adopt a mindset, adopt a way of thinking, a mode of behavior.

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And when we adopt a mode of behavior,

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we adopt modes of behaving. And one

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of those modes of behaving is politeness, even politeness in communication.

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A samurai mindset operates best, as was stated here

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when he was talking about the tea ceremony. It operates best within

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chaos. Vanality disorder and the conditions of spiritual

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battle, which I think we can all agree upon if

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we are operating with our eyes open anyway, that we are definitely

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in a spiritual battle, at least in the west, if not

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globally. And of course, some will say such

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as it has always been, which is

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why politeness is something that we have always needed in our conduct

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and in our behavior.

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Metal is heavier than feathers, he says

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in a little piece there that I did not read. And that

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is an important thing to remember. Because once attention to the parts

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of communication engagement have been abandoned, once the small things have been left

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behind on the road to the hot take on the road

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to the quick and easy clap back. Once those things have been

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left behind, we leave behind competency and

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the rest the whole thing is sure to follow.

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A building collapses once you remove the cornerstone from it.

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Why be polite?

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I want to thank John for coming on the podcast today. I want to open

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up the door to him, open up the floor to him. If he would like

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to reintroduce himself, he can. But let’s

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start off with this question for you today, John. And once again,

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thank you for coming back on. I can’t wait to sort of rip this book

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apart and start talking about it and applying it to leadership.

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Why is it important for leaders to hold on to politeness in a world where

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rudeness seems to be linked inextricably to this idea of

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not libertarian freedom, but almost libertine

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freedom? So this

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is probably the chapter I have the least notes and highlights in,

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right? The other one being the chapter on, like, women.

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But as we’re talking about this, I’m a sales coach,

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right? And so well known is the stigma of the salesperson,

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right? Be anything, say anything, do anything to

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get your money away from you, right? And to

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me, when he’s talking about the stuff at the top of this thing,

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he’s talking about the tea ceremony very specifically.

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I don’t see that as much politeness as I think about it as being very

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intentional, like being very present, right? Okay. And I’m

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thinking about this all the time because there are so many things that

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try to attract my attention, right? They try to attract my clients attention.

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And stuff like this. There’s always a fire to put out. There’s always someone who

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wants your attention to try to sell you something. And so the idea that

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you can go into a space and just enjoy the tea,

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you can put everything else aside and just enjoy the tea,

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is huge. Because I think that more people should cultivate

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silence and disconnecting from social media and all these platforms that

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are pulling for our attention and make it super easy to kind

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of I call them Keyboard Commandos. These people who would never

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say these things in person, but because they’re behind a keyboard and

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there’s a certain level of anonymity, anything around politeness

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just goes out the window. And that drives

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me crazy, right? Because being an entrepreneur,

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growing a business, one of the things that everyone talks about is go be

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polarizing because it’s a great way to get people

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over to your side. I don’t want to do that

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in my marketing message. I don’t go about it that way.

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And I think the reason that we’re here to talk

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about is like, how does this apply to leadership?

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Well, I think that right now there’s

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a whole bunch of organizations that are back in the office. Some people are still

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doing remote. There’s a bunch of stuff in between around hybrid and everything.

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And there’s all this electronic communication that leaves so

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much room to be misinterpreted.

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I’ve lost deals because I’ve done a follow up and they injected the wrong

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tone. And because it was in the written word and not in a vocal communication

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where I can control the tone, they have the ability to turn it

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into a reason to not move forward or something like

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this. And I think from a leadership perspective,

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we have to be more mindful around the idea that everyone is

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busy, there is less focus, right? So that politeness is being

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present. My partner and I are trying very hard to

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stop multitasking. So if we’re working and we work together

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and so she’ll come in, she’ll have a question for me. If I’m

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looking at my phone, she’s like, I’m just going to wait.

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I’m like, okay. And now it’s forcing me to be more polite and

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just be more present in those conversations, which I need to be anyway.

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So the big takeaway from here is

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that with slack and email and so many ways to communicate,

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many of them are not appropriate for certain things.

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If you’re trying to coach somebody, let’s say that you’re a

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sales leader, right, and it just hits your

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head that one of your reps had a deal and you

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just send them a slack message, hey, when is that deal going to close?

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That’s not a great conversation. As a leader, you’re putting your person back on their

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heels. They’re going to respond to you with a fabricated response and it might not

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be real or on and there’s no intention being put into this thing. It’s just

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like, I got to get this out of my head. I got to move as

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quickly as I can because there’s so much going on and I might forget about

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this. So for me, as I was reading this chapter, I was

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just like thinking about that idea,

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how much can get misinterpreted because it’s written down versus set aloud.

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And as leaders, where are we falling down

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on that job of just assuming that people understand our tonality? Well, they know

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where I’m coming from, but they don’t because it might be six

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months between actual phone calls or meeting in person,

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doing this kind of, like, very close human interaction that really forms these

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bonds that we rely on when times are tough.

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I’m thinking about multiple things and taking notes while you’re talking.

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Sure. Because there’s multiple sort of

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different threads that I want to play with a little bit here.

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And I think we want to move both up and down the hierarchy

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in this conversation. Obviously, we want to keep it grounded for leaders,

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and we want to be grounded in the space of the way of the Samurai,

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want to be grounded in what we’re telling leaders. But we also want to I

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always try to do with this on the podcast, and we do this in our

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last conversation, try to go up and down, right?

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Try to pull something down from the top, right? But also

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bring something up from the bottom and try to try to get some synergy,

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right. Some uniting together, right?

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One of the spaces that’s really interesting to me is a space of ethics and

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morals that’s really interesting to me.

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I took a whole class, an online class last

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year, late last year,

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about ethics. And one of

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the core questions that came towards

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the end of it that was listed as a practical

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sort of question to ask yourself, and I actually have it on my workstation

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here in front of my microphone. It’s a little sticky note

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with two questions am I making the right ethical decision

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right now? And then, am I doing the most ethical thing right now?

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And I keep it here as a reminder, not because I’m unethical or not because

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I need to be reminded of my ethics. I think I have

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an okay, hold on that everybody’s got cracks

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and nobody’s perfect.

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But I tie ethics to politeness because I think that that

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is one of the higher order virtues,

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and it disturbs me as I think at

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a larger cultural level, particularly in our politics

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and in our culture, we’ve abandoned a lightness

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in favor of rudeness

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disguised as being, quote unquote, real. Now, this is not new,

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right? I can remember before the Internet, back in the

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good old days when people

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would say, I want to get real with you, or you need to show your

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real self, right? Or.

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In the case of myself, coming off of Black History Month, I’d have other

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black people ask me this, are you authentically black? I never knew what the

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hell that meant. Oh, yeah, we could talk about that. I never knew what

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the hell that meant. Now, by saying,

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I don’t know what it means, I’m rejecting the thing that I know it means.

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I’m putting it on notice, right? Because I do actually know what it

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means. But that’s in the form of rudeness.

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That’s a form of impoliteness, right?

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And I think we’ve scaled that up with our social

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media usage and just with the ways in which we’ve

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allowed personalities. And I won’t name any names because I

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don’t need to. Everybody knows who the personalities are. We’ve allowed personalities

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to sort of trump through our culture. I think that impacts

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leaders deeply, and I

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also think it impacts followers because followers expectations shift

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around. Right? Yeah. It’s not

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the person who you talked to who was the decision maker who turned

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down your deal. Although they may have given the

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green light to say no or to say yes for sure,

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it’s the person who is three steps away from them

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that sent you the email. It’s the

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person in that chain that’s missing that tonality. And weirdly enough,

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they’re reflecting something from the leader’s posture. They’re reflecting

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something from the leader’s unstated behaviors and communications.

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One of the things that I was thinking about as we’re

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going over this today, it didn’t hit my radar whenever I was reading this the

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first time, but, like, talking about this today is like,

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I i think that politeness is tied

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to empathy, right. Because I think yeah,

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I think I think Natobi would agree, actually, because I. Think if you

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I’m a I’m a nerd. Like, I’m a big nerd. And I remember

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whenever I was first hitting this path of, like, really trying to be a sales

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professional, like, really, like, embrace the craft and everything, and I went to go

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work for or not work for a coach, but I went to go work with

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a coach. I hired a coach. It’s my kind of default mode of improvement.

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Go find a coach. And I

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was still going through there, like, looking for tactics and looking

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for tricks and hacks and things like this. And it wasn’t

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really until I sat down and somewhere along the way

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developed a whole lot of empathy around the idea that

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not every person who ghosts me on a call is malicious.

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He probably has some stuff to go going on because

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I have a bunch of stuff going on. Okay, cool. I can respect that.

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But I think until you go through it right.

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Or develop a practice of putting yourself

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in those shoes so that way you can be thoughtful about what they’re going through,

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I don’t think you can be polite. Right. Which is why you have these people

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who just love to go around and say, hey, no offense, but insert

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offensive statement here, and it

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doesn’t even need to be said the majority of the time. So where

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does this need come from? Right? It just comes from this idea that

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you think you know better. Really.

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Right. So you’ve not gone through the process, you don’t actually know,

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and you don’t have any empathy.

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I’ve heard this called empathy. I’ve heard it called EQ. I’ve heard it

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all these various labels, but nobody wants

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to deal with the person who doesn’t have any of that.

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That’s why everyone hates their It guy.

348
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Or Hazy Elon Musk.

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So real quick, your sound changed pretty significantly, and you sound like you’re underwater

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now.

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00:22:00,060 –> 00:22:02,330
How about now? That’s better.

352
00:22:02,780 –> 00:22:05,290
Okay. Thank you.

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It’s still more than where it was when we started, but it’s not

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00:22:09,874 –> 00:22:12,510
as bad as it was. It’s not as bad as it was. Okay. Yeah,

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00:22:17,470 –> 00:22:20,230
that’s better. Yeah. There you go. Okay. There we go. All right. I had to

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readjust my mic. We’re recording

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in real time, folks. Absolutely. There’s no editing.

358
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There’s no editing. These are not hot takes. These are slow burns

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that we have put together and decided to share with everybody.

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00:22:34,150 –> 00:22:38,226
That’s right. Is this

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a function of us becoming more atomized as a culture, though?

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Because here’s how I see it. We had

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a glorious 20th century and you don’t get me

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wrong, there were problems. But both

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the more, shall we say,

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libertarian or not libertarian libertine mode

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of being more progressive. Let’s frame it that way. Small progressive mode

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of being looked at the 20th century and said we

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made cultural progress in changing

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our more rays and changing the human heart in

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a Rusoian sense, and we

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need to do more of that. And then a more conservative

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mindset, small C conservative, and I’m not talking political, it just means

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small C conservative looked at the 20th century and said

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we had security and stability and a

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framework where too much openness wasn’t

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00:23:42,810 –> 00:23:46,278
prioritized. Right. We had a sense that something was solid in

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the world. Even though you were bashing even though a small people progressive may have

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00:23:49,104 –> 00:23:51,820
been bashing up against that thing, it was solid. Right.

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And so we came through a 20th century where the

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sense of stability and by the way, in Azona, Toby, we’re going to

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talk about the literary life of innotobe in a minute. He was very much

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a merging of these two ideas together.

384
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Right. If you look at his biography and we will hear in a bit,

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in merging those two ideas together in one man,

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that’s what enabled him to write The Way of the Samurai, which has Western

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humanist elements to it, it has Buddhist elements to it, it has

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Christian elements to it, it has hegelian elements to it. It’s an

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00:24:27,228 –> 00:24:29,430
amazing fusion of ideas.

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It’s not fractal. It’s not broken apart

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coming out of the 20th century. We live in a time

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of we live in a fractal time. We live in a time of atomization,

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00:24:42,470 –> 00:24:45,514
of people being having their desires and

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00:24:45,552 –> 00:24:48,986
their wants, atomized all

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the way down to the smallest possible part.

396
00:24:53,650 –> 00:24:57,694
And you know this in sales. The more data you can get on somebody,

397
00:24:57,812 –> 00:25:01,086
the more you can specifically, narrowly sell to them as a

398
00:25:01,108 –> 00:25:04,260
person who’s passionate about marketing, marketers ruin everything.

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They ruin everything. And they

400
00:25:09,528 –> 00:25:12,866
ruin it because we want to tell more and more

401
00:25:12,888 –> 00:25:16,486
persuasive stories to more and more single individuals rather than

402
00:25:16,508 –> 00:25:19,382
the mass, because we can. Right. And so, of course,

403
00:25:19,436 –> 00:25:20,280
we will.

404
00:25:22,890 –> 00:25:26,310
I’m not quite sure that atomization leads to empathy.

405
00:25:30,510 –> 00:25:34,106
I think I agree with you. Right. Because I think one of the things that

406
00:25:34,128 –> 00:25:37,020
I love is that there’s a community for everything.

407
00:25:37,710 –> 00:25:41,334
If you’re really into Jiu Jitsu, there’s 1000 communities

408
00:25:41,382 –> 00:25:45,214
for Jiu Jitsu, if it’s guitar, if it’s being an entrepreneur, if it’s like

409
00:25:45,252 –> 00:25:48,366
whatever it is, you can go find your tribe. Right. That was talked about out

410
00:25:48,388 –> 00:25:52,478
there. And I think you

411
00:25:52,484 –> 00:25:56,046
can get way too deep in any one of these things. And then there’s

412
00:25:56,078 –> 00:25:59,058
a fine line between like a community and a cult, right?

413
00:25:59,144 –> 00:26:02,466
Yeah. And so if you are I

414
00:26:02,488 –> 00:26:06,146
think if you’re trying to apply everything I’m a huge fan of metaphor. I use

415
00:26:06,168 –> 00:26:09,522
it constantly in coaching, but sometimes the metaphor doesn’t stretch,

416
00:26:09,586 –> 00:26:13,302
it doesn’t fit. Right. And it shouldn’t be used in your decision making

417
00:26:13,356 –> 00:26:16,486
process. About does this, if this, then that kind

418
00:26:16,508 –> 00:26:21,026
of situation. So I think because

419
00:26:21,068 –> 00:26:24,966
we are so siloed, right, and there’s so many communities and there’s so many platforms

420
00:26:24,998 –> 00:26:28,266
and all of this stuff is just like constantly ongoing. I think

421
00:26:28,288 –> 00:26:31,754
if you’re not very intentional with seeking out balance,

422
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you’re going to end up being a little bit of a feverish alkalite

423
00:26:35,274 –> 00:26:37,930
no matter what community you’re following.

424
00:26:38,090 –> 00:26:40,240
Yeah. No matter what community you’re in.

425
00:26:42,850 –> 00:26:46,274
One other thought that came to me out of

426
00:26:46,312 –> 00:26:51,410
your series of thoughts, there anonymity

427
00:26:53,110 –> 00:26:56,514
the marketer. Seth Godin pointed out something back

428
00:26:56,552 –> 00:26:59,894
in the days, back in the halcyon days between MySpace and

429
00:26:59,932 –> 00:27:03,366
Facebook, way back in the day, way back

430
00:27:03,388 –> 00:27:06,854
in the halcyon day when

431
00:27:06,892 –> 00:27:10,602
everybody skipped through the trees and Twitter was

432
00:27:10,656 –> 00:27:14,054
not even a dream yet, and no one really knew who Elon

433
00:27:14,102 –> 00:27:17,878
was. And Peter Thiel had just capped out of PayPal

434
00:27:18,054 –> 00:27:21,258
and my gosh, Reid Hoffman and LinkedIn hadn’t even happened yet.

435
00:27:21,424 –> 00:27:24,734
The good old days. That magical time

436
00:27:24,772 –> 00:27:27,440
in the early aughts, as they sometimes call it.

437
00:27:28,850 –> 00:27:31,706
He infamously wrote this in his blog, which, by the way, if you’re not reading

438
00:27:31,738 –> 00:27:35,134
Seth Godin’s blog, you probably should be. Even as a salesperson,

439
00:27:35,182 –> 00:27:38,834
you probably should be reading it. The philosophy that

440
00:27:38,872 –> 00:27:42,702
that guy has is unbelievable. And he’s just consistently

441
00:27:42,766 –> 00:27:46,226
been dripping it out over the course of the last, now close to

442
00:27:46,248 –> 00:27:49,478
35 years. Man’s got a track record.

443
00:27:49,564 –> 00:27:52,946
Anyway, one of the points he made that has stuck with me about anonymity

444
00:27:52,978 –> 00:27:56,674
is this he says no. He has said no society has ever

445
00:27:56,732 –> 00:27:58,810
survived anonymity and communication.

446
00:28:00,670 –> 00:28:01,530
Dip.

447
00:28:05,600 –> 00:28:09,276
It’s funny, I’m a

448
00:28:09,298 –> 00:28:12,844
big fan of being transparent, right? And so all these

449
00:28:12,882 –> 00:28:16,512
different platforms that I’m on, I always try to show up as John Small

450
00:28:16,566 –> 00:28:20,704
Mountain, right. So even when I’m gaming, my name

451
00:28:20,742 –> 00:28:24,596
in game is also Small Mountain because I like a little bit of

452
00:28:24,618 –> 00:28:28,500
pressure to act like an adult, to act with some civility

453
00:28:29,320 –> 00:28:31,540
in all these different situations.

454
00:28:33,960 –> 00:28:37,304
I’ve not heard that line before, but that makes complete sense, right?

455
00:28:37,342 –> 00:28:42,776
If you take away the

456
00:28:42,798 –> 00:28:46,040
feedback loop tied to

457
00:28:46,190 –> 00:28:47,480
actual accountability,

458
00:28:51,040 –> 00:28:54,524
go look at Twitter, it’s already off the rails. Like, go look at any social

459
00:28:54,562 –> 00:28:58,156
media that doesn’t require like an actual transparency to

460
00:28:58,178 –> 00:29:01,804
it. People will push back on this

461
00:29:01,842 –> 00:29:05,064
who like anonymity, and they will say, well, you need anonymity

462
00:29:05,112 –> 00:29:07,968
to call out powerful people so that you don’t lose your position or you don’t

463
00:29:07,974 –> 00:29:11,612
lose your livelihood. I’ve often heard this pushback.

464
00:29:11,676 –> 00:29:15,228
It’s easy for people to talk about lacking anonymity who

465
00:29:15,254 –> 00:29:18,870
are already financially protected from the results of not having

466
00:29:19,480 –> 00:29:22,756
or being transparent. Right. And I

467
00:29:22,778 –> 00:29:26,176
think that’s a cop out, quite frankly. I agree. And I’m

468
00:29:26,208 –> 00:29:28,410
going to say why this is a cop out.

469
00:29:30,300 –> 00:29:33,844
And I’ve said this before on this podcast, I have 26,000 tweets

470
00:29:33,972 –> 00:29:37,400
getting ready to be 28,000. I am

471
00:29:37,470 –> 00:29:40,968
sure that there’s something objectionable, and at least

472
00:29:41,054 –> 00:29:45,656
I’m going to give a percentage. 15% of those tweets. Somebody someday,

473
00:29:45,768 –> 00:29:48,110
over the course of the last ten to twelve years,

474
00:29:48,480 –> 00:29:52,060
will find something objectionable in either something I tweeted or retweeted.

475
00:29:53,780 –> 00:29:57,472
I’m not afraid of anybody finding anything objectionable in that 15%

476
00:29:57,526 –> 00:30:00,272
of tweets. There’s no fear there.

477
00:30:00,406 –> 00:30:03,628
Because see, here’s the thing. If you’re judging

478
00:30:03,644 –> 00:30:06,916
me by my Twitter feed and you’re making a

479
00:30:06,938 –> 00:30:10,244
statement about my character or an assumption about

480
00:30:10,282 –> 00:30:14,660
my character, and you’re anonymous on Twitter,

481
00:30:15,160 –> 00:30:18,536
but I’m not, and you can find me, I think I have

482
00:30:18,558 –> 00:30:22,490
the high ground. I 100% agree.

483
00:30:24,060 –> 00:30:27,156
I have rules for who I connect with and who I network

484
00:30:27,188 –> 00:30:31,124
with, because I’m always out looking for people connecting.

485
00:30:31,172 –> 00:30:34,844
I’m a big networker. I run a community with 115 people

486
00:30:34,882 –> 00:30:37,676
in it, and I’m always looking to add people to that. I network all the

487
00:30:37,698 –> 00:30:40,824
time on social. And if you don’t

488
00:30:40,872 –> 00:30:44,952
have your picture, not your logo,

489
00:30:45,096 –> 00:30:47,996
because I get that we’re all in business, we’re all trying to push our brands

490
00:30:48,028 –> 00:30:50,784
and everything else like this, but if you don’t have a photo of yourself,

491
00:30:50,902 –> 00:30:54,416
no, can’t do it. I don’t even want to

492
00:30:54,438 –> 00:30:57,684
have a conversation with you because I don’t know who you are.

493
00:30:57,802 –> 00:31:01,524
Right. I think it even

494
00:31:01,562 –> 00:31:04,932
now goes past pictures because Facebook solved the real picture, real human

495
00:31:04,986 –> 00:31:08,570
being problem. Kind of. Not totally, but kind of.

496
00:31:10,220 –> 00:31:13,416
I think where we’re at now is words.

497
00:31:13,518 –> 00:31:16,824
We’re at the shall I be biblical and

498
00:31:16,942 –> 00:31:20,776
Greek in this a little bit here. We’re at the problem of the logos

499
00:31:20,968 –> 00:31:26,072
because words bring into flowering

500
00:31:26,136 –> 00:31:30,728
reality. That’s why you read books on this podcast, because we’re

501
00:31:30,744 –> 00:31:33,756
not only bringing into flowering ideas, but we are also bringing

502
00:31:33,788 –> 00:31:37,548
into flowering avatars of reality. And we’re putting those on, and we’re

503
00:31:37,564 –> 00:31:41,650
allowing ourselves to walk around in that avatar and

504
00:31:42,100 –> 00:31:45,276
put ourselves in it without risk,

505
00:31:45,308 –> 00:31:48,224
by the way, to us, because I can put down the way of the Samurai

506
00:31:48,272 –> 00:31:52,528
and I can go off and live my life in Nazo.

507
00:31:52,544 –> 00:31:56,464
Natobi is passed away, and yet I exist.

508
00:31:56,512 –> 00:31:59,876
And I’ve written three books myself. When I pass away, the books

509
00:31:59,908 –> 00:32:03,770
will exist in one form or another. Right? And so

510
00:32:05,340 –> 00:32:08,964
the magic of books is the ability to put the avatar

511
00:32:09,012 –> 00:32:12,440
on and take the. Avatar off and walk around in a mindset.

512
00:32:12,520 –> 00:32:16,076
As another guest of ours once said way back in the beginning days

513
00:32:16,098 –> 00:32:18,776
of this podcast, books are paper leaders,

514
00:32:18,888 –> 00:32:22,424
right? And we put on their paper leadership

515
00:32:22,472 –> 00:32:25,488
and we walk around in it. And then just like a child who puts on

516
00:32:25,494 –> 00:32:28,976
his father’s shoes or her father’s shoes, we get to take those shoes off and

517
00:32:28,998 –> 00:32:32,864
walk around in our own feet. It gives

518
00:32:32,902 –> 00:32:36,464
empathy, it gives understanding. It allows us

519
00:32:36,502 –> 00:32:39,984
to be anonymous, but not really.

520
00:32:40,022 –> 00:32:42,160
It allows us to take on a new identity.

521
00:32:44,420 –> 00:32:49,112
But when all words are

522
00:32:49,166 –> 00:32:51,240
coming from a space of anonymity,

523
00:32:53,420 –> 00:32:56,330
I’m not convinced that communication can survive that.

524
00:32:56,700 –> 00:32:59,356
That’s when you really have the test of whether or not metal is heavier than

525
00:32:59,378 –> 00:33:02,670
feathers. I think, to push that metaphor, I agree.

526
00:33:05,920 –> 00:33:09,676
I don’t see myself going into a

527
00:33:09,698 –> 00:33:13,360
social platform, not as me at this stage.

528
00:33:15,940 –> 00:33:19,536
And that’s fine. I know lots of people and their

529
00:33:19,558 –> 00:33:22,530
Twitter is just for sports. It has nothing to do with their business.

530
00:33:23,380 –> 00:33:27,396
Okay, that’s totally fine. But to

531
00:33:27,418 –> 00:33:31,190
me, it’s why hide, right?

532
00:33:33,960 –> 00:33:37,716
And you talked about hot takes and hot takes are there.

533
00:33:37,738 –> 00:33:39,924
For a while, I was trying to be the hot take guy, and I just

534
00:33:39,962 –> 00:33:42,904
realized, you know what, I don’t want to be this guy. Right. I don’t want

535
00:33:42,942 –> 00:33:46,484
to just spout out the first instance of the first emotional

536
00:33:46,532 –> 00:33:49,704
thing that I think about after I read that

537
00:33:49,742 –> 00:33:53,316
stripe is no longer going to waive dispute

538
00:33:53,348 –> 00:33:56,876
fees even if you win. Right? Yeah. That’s garbage. Well, let’s look at it from

539
00:33:56,898 –> 00:33:59,790
the business perspective. There’s probably a good reason. Okay.

540
00:34:00,240 –> 00:34:03,480
And then I get to make a decision about whether or not I want to

541
00:34:03,490 –> 00:34:06,050
continue to work with stripe, right? Exactly.

542
00:34:07,780 –> 00:34:11,568
It doesn’t take very much and this goes back to really what the chapter is

543
00:34:11,574 –> 00:34:15,250
about. It doesn’t take any time at all to go be

544
00:34:15,780 –> 00:34:19,184
kind, to go be polite, to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Right.

545
00:34:19,222 –> 00:34:22,756
It’s how I think about it now, because that benefit of the doubt, like I

546
00:34:22,778 –> 00:34:26,788
know some people who you go read their social stuff, you’re going

547
00:34:26,794 –> 00:34:29,884
to think they’re the most hard edged,

548
00:34:29,952 –> 00:34:33,716
heavy handed person you could possibly imagine.

549
00:34:33,828 –> 00:34:36,836
But because I know them, I give them a little bit of grace,

550
00:34:36,948 –> 00:34:40,168
right. And he talks about grace in the book. And I just think

551
00:34:40,174 –> 00:34:43,656
it’s really interesting because grace was like a very interesting word for me.

552
00:34:43,758 –> 00:34:46,812
It wasn’t really a word that was in my vocabulary until I really started to

553
00:34:46,866 –> 00:34:50,584
kind of focus on empathy and giving people the benefit of the doubt.

554
00:34:50,712 –> 00:34:54,144
And this is part of a bigger process of trying to walk back my

555
00:34:54,182 –> 00:34:57,312
jaded sensibilities about being in sales. Right.

556
00:34:57,366 –> 00:35:00,816
Because it’s super easy to start thinking that everyone has it out for

557
00:35:00,838 –> 00:35:04,160
you. Right. And it’s not healthy.

558
00:35:05,000 –> 00:35:07,460
You’re not going to make it if that’s your mindset.

559
00:35:07,880 –> 00:35:08,630
Well,

560
00:35:13,160 –> 00:35:16,692
the first take is probably no, not even the first take. I’ll go even past

561
00:35:16,746 –> 00:35:20,330
that. The hot take is probably wrong.

562
00:35:20,700 –> 00:35:24,504
Yes. Agreed. The hot take about that person. The hot

563
00:35:24,542 –> 00:35:28,312
take about that idea. The hot take about that interaction. I’ve had

564
00:35:28,366 –> 00:35:32,296
several interactions over the course of just this week alone. And I’m

565
00:35:32,318 –> 00:35:34,988
not only reading this book, I’m reading, like, four other books, too. So I got

566
00:35:34,994 –> 00:35:37,884
a bunch of other different things, like mushing around together. In my head.

567
00:35:38,002 –> 00:35:41,244
I’m involved in a number of different projects that are offline in the real

568
00:35:41,282 –> 00:35:45,010
world doing solving what I call real problems for real people.

569
00:35:45,380 –> 00:35:49,216
I’m getting more and more passionate about not being in the Internet space

570
00:35:49,318 –> 00:35:53,040
and being out of the internet space and doing some interesting

571
00:35:53,110 –> 00:35:54,210
things out there.

572
00:35:55,800 –> 00:35:58,820
And in the course of those interactions,

573
00:36:01,400 –> 00:36:04,932
the pause is the most powerful tool

574
00:36:04,986 –> 00:36:06,870
you have. Yeah.

575
00:36:08,140 –> 00:36:11,960
And it’s either putting other people on pause,

576
00:36:12,620 –> 00:36:15,348
or it’s putting yourself on pause.

577
00:36:15,524 –> 00:36:19,480
So we were talking about, before we came on,

578
00:36:19,630 –> 00:36:23,470
one of my fellow Jujitsu players who

579
00:36:23,840 –> 00:36:26,876
walks into the studio, and he’s got a shirt on,

580
00:36:26,898 –> 00:36:30,796
and it says something on. And my first take may

581
00:36:30,818 –> 00:36:34,256
not be positive towards that. That may not be correct,

582
00:36:34,358 –> 00:36:37,090
by the way. That may not be the correct take to have.

583
00:36:39,460 –> 00:36:43,344
Maybe the second take is better. Maybe the pause is

584
00:36:43,382 –> 00:36:46,840
correct. Now I’ve got an entire toolbox,

585
00:36:47,020 –> 00:36:50,452
a leadership toolbox, such as it were, of options

586
00:36:50,586 –> 00:36:54,256
as to how I communicate with that person. But if I’m just doing the Twitter

587
00:36:54,288 –> 00:36:57,636
thing in real life, oh, man. Constantly on the edge

588
00:36:57,668 –> 00:37:00,568
all the time, and I’m not getting anything accomplished, and other people find me to

589
00:37:00,574 –> 00:37:02,360
be grading and irritating.

590
00:37:04,140 –> 00:37:04,890
Yeah.

591
00:37:10,260 –> 00:37:13,168
I think it took me a long time to get to the place to where

592
00:37:13,334 –> 00:37:17,236
because I think about default modes a lot. Like, what is

593
00:37:17,258 –> 00:37:21,156
your automatic response? Right? And being a Kung fu guy

594
00:37:21,338 –> 00:37:23,540
and being prior service military,

595
00:37:24,920 –> 00:37:29,016
I have a very definite vision of what I want my default response to

596
00:37:29,038 –> 00:37:32,696
be in certain situations, you know? But now the thing that

597
00:37:32,718 –> 00:37:36,696
I’m really trying to do, and and it’s working, right? And this

598
00:37:36,718 –> 00:37:38,808
is kind of crazy for me to talk about with, like, really close friends is

599
00:37:38,814 –> 00:37:42,924
like, somewhere along the way, I became, like, a silver lining optimist guy who

600
00:37:42,962 –> 00:37:46,252
gives people the benefit of the doubt. And five years ago,

601
00:37:46,306 –> 00:37:50,216
ten years ago, I had none of that right. It was my way or you’re

602
00:37:50,248 –> 00:37:54,448
wrong. And I can remember being in basic training

603
00:37:54,614 –> 00:37:57,568
and hearing a drill sergeant say that for the very first time,

604
00:37:57,654 –> 00:38:00,976
you’re either doing it right, which is my way, or you’re wrong. There’s nothing in

605
00:38:00,998 –> 00:38:04,950
between. And I was like, finally, somebody gets it the way that I want to.

606
00:38:05,640 –> 00:38:09,556
I want this world to go this way. But I

607
00:38:09,578 –> 00:38:13,476
think about people who make stupid decisions at

608
00:38:13,498 –> 00:38:16,936
a fundamental level. If those decisions don’t match with mine, I want to take the

609
00:38:16,958 –> 00:38:19,370
idea of, like, you know, what? You’re doing the wrong thing.

610
00:38:20,700 –> 00:38:24,824
But I can only come to that decision based

611
00:38:24,862 –> 00:38:28,590
upon my perception of why they’re doing these things.

612
00:38:30,560 –> 00:38:33,788
What I try to do now as a coach is I try to ask,

613
00:38:33,874 –> 00:38:37,310
okay, why are you doing it that way? Right?

614
00:38:37,840 –> 00:38:41,388
Because if you have a reason, let’s test.

615
00:38:41,474 –> 00:38:44,076
Let’s see if this is a better way. I’m totally down to put some volume

616
00:38:44,108 –> 00:38:47,472
behind this, and then we can test our assumptions. Sample size is going to be

617
00:38:47,526 –> 00:38:51,088
a big thing, especially in selling. But why

618
00:38:51,174 –> 00:38:54,400
do you have an intention, or are you just winging it?

619
00:38:54,550 –> 00:38:57,956
Intention is a really big thing for me. I think as

620
00:38:57,978 –> 00:39:01,396
salespeople, we have to be very intentional with what we

621
00:39:01,418 –> 00:39:05,076
want to talk about, who are we trying to target and have conversations with and

622
00:39:05,098 –> 00:39:08,640
what’s happening in those conversations. Right. Reason why salespeople have a

623
00:39:08,650 –> 00:39:11,652
bad name is because they get very excited.

624
00:39:11,796 –> 00:39:14,808
And then we have selective hearing, and you hear the things you want to hear.

625
00:39:14,894 –> 00:39:17,608
And until you work with someone like me who can show you, hey, you need

626
00:39:17,614 –> 00:39:20,584
to ask some additional questions around this thing because you’re about to step in potentially

627
00:39:20,632 –> 00:39:24,364
a bear trap. Right. Until someone works

628
00:39:24,402 –> 00:39:27,816
with me and they understand frequent

629
00:39:27,848 –> 00:39:31,548
situation, this looks amazing, right? And then everyone’s like, oh, my God, we’re going

630
00:39:31,554 –> 00:39:34,816
to close this deal. Hey, thank you so much for letting me know what about

631
00:39:34,838 –> 00:39:38,176
this is so amazing because most people don’t like this. And then

632
00:39:38,198 –> 00:39:41,552
you get to have a great conversation about what they like and you know what

633
00:39:41,606 –> 00:39:44,128
it means. You’re on the same page with them. You’re going to miss less deals

634
00:39:44,144 –> 00:39:47,280
on the backside of it because you were very present, very intentional,

635
00:39:47,360 –> 00:39:50,528
and you were. Listening presence,

636
00:39:50,704 –> 00:39:52,100
intentionality,

637
00:39:52,600 –> 00:39:55,460
mindfulness, politeness.

638
00:39:56,620 –> 00:39:59,130
This is a hierarchy of order. Right.

639
00:39:59,660 –> 00:40:03,028
And I think it’s

640
00:40:03,044 –> 00:40:07,496
all summed up in when he talks about the tea ceremony in

641
00:40:07,518 –> 00:40:11,160
this chapter, because I’ll admit

642
00:40:12,960 –> 00:40:16,060
I don’t much think about the tea ceremony.

643
00:40:16,640 –> 00:40:19,920
I just don’t like it’s not something that’s really on my radar.

644
00:40:20,980 –> 00:40:24,556
And at the same time, now that it’s

645
00:40:24,588 –> 00:40:28,448
on my radar, it bears looking at a

646
00:40:28,454 –> 00:40:32,432
little bit closer as a result of Mr.

647
00:40:32,486 –> 00:40:35,748
Natopi’s analysis of it and how it relates to the way of

648
00:40:35,754 –> 00:40:39,492
the samurai. Okay, I’m going to challenge you a little bit on this because

649
00:40:39,546 –> 00:40:42,564
I think about this probably more than I should, right.

650
00:40:42,602 –> 00:40:45,652
Intentionality and right place, right time, and different things like this.

651
00:40:45,786 –> 00:40:49,144
And I love the idea of a tea ceremony, but I

652
00:40:49,182 –> 00:40:52,712
also love the idea of sitting down and having, like, a really

653
00:40:52,766 –> 00:40:56,344
great bottle of scotch, right? And I’ve got the big

654
00:40:56,382 –> 00:40:59,256
ice cube, and you hear that clink as you drop it in there. It is

655
00:40:59,278 –> 00:41:02,476
that whole process of setting up the experience

656
00:41:02,658 –> 00:41:05,976
that creates the greatness of the experience. I don’t care if it’s wine.

657
00:41:06,008 –> 00:41:09,828
I don’t care if it’s alcohol. I don’t care if it’s sex. It largely

658
00:41:09,864 –> 00:41:12,956
doesn’t matter. Right? Right. That warm up process puts

659
00:41:12,988 –> 00:41:16,160
you into that mindset, which is why I think too many people

660
00:41:16,230 –> 00:41:20,272
put I think too many people

661
00:41:20,326 –> 00:41:23,628
are kind of over bragging around their morning routines.

662
00:41:23,724 –> 00:41:26,848
Right. I get up at 05:00 A.m. And I do 17 things before, like,

663
00:41:26,854 –> 00:41:30,704
anyone else all gets awake. Cool, that’s great. But it’s not for

664
00:41:30,742 –> 00:41:34,456
everybody. I’m sorry. Warm up is

665
00:41:34,478 –> 00:41:38,184
not going to be the right thing for everybody. It can’t be. Right. But most

666
00:41:38,222 –> 00:41:41,176
people need a warm up of some sort. And the older we get, believe me,

667
00:41:41,198 –> 00:41:43,944
as a guy in my forty s and I try to go do something without

668
00:41:44,062 –> 00:41:47,740
properly stretching or warming up first and then I’m miserable because I pulled something

669
00:41:47,810 –> 00:41:51,384
for a couple of days later, those warm ups are helpful.

670
00:41:51,512 –> 00:41:55,020
Right. We’re actually moving

671
00:41:55,090 –> 00:41:59,180
towards a weirdly enough we’re moving towards a family stretching

672
00:41:59,520 –> 00:42:03,170
routine. We’re going to stretch together as a family man.

673
00:42:04,100 –> 00:42:07,760
You’re almost an Asian organization, right?

674
00:42:07,910 –> 00:42:10,528
You’re going to force everyone to come in and line up in front of the

675
00:42:10,534 –> 00:42:13,200
house. Like do all the stretches in Calisthenics.

676
00:42:14,020 –> 00:42:16,468
Yeah. Then we’re going to break down an AK 47 and then we’re going to

677
00:42:16,474 –> 00:42:20,276
send the kids off. Absolutely. Your kids are

678
00:42:20,298 –> 00:42:23,696
already like expert level gymnasts and horseback

679
00:42:23,728 –> 00:42:27,400
archers and everything. Yeah, that’s right. Oh my gosh.

680
00:42:27,900 –> 00:42:31,880
No, I agree. It doesn’t necessarily have to be around tea.

681
00:42:31,950 –> 00:42:35,480
It could be around anything. I mean,

682
00:42:35,550 –> 00:42:38,844
it goes back to that again, what we said at the opening, this whole

683
00:42:38,882 –> 00:42:40,830
slow food movement. Right.

684
00:42:42,960 –> 00:42:46,760
How are we taking things out of the chaotic,

685
00:42:46,920 –> 00:42:48,830
the venal? As I said,

686
00:42:51,060 –> 00:42:55,372
how are we pulling meaning

687
00:42:55,436 –> 00:42:57,280
from disorder?

688
00:42:59,380 –> 00:43:03,344
One of the huge things about the last 20 years in

689
00:43:03,382 –> 00:43:07,156
the United States of America and for my international listeners, you may not know

690
00:43:07,178 –> 00:43:10,868
this, but one of the huge things over the last 20 years in the

691
00:43:10,874 –> 00:43:14,016
United States of America is how

692
00:43:14,138 –> 00:43:21,800
big an uptick there has been in anxiety,

693
00:43:22,540 –> 00:43:26,984
in stress, and in

694
00:43:27,022 –> 00:43:31,516
mental health issues. And I’m not talking about kind

695
00:43:31,538 –> 00:43:33,436
of stuff that you see on social media. I’m not talking about that. I’m talking

696
00:43:33,458 –> 00:43:36,412
about practically diagnosed upticks right.

697
00:43:36,466 –> 00:43:40,816
In all of these spaces. Because when

698
00:43:40,838 –> 00:43:44,400
you have anxiety, you disintermediate,

699
00:43:46,500 –> 00:43:50,272
you disintegrate, you fall apart, you fall into

700
00:43:50,406 –> 00:43:54,420
your commensurate parts. Well, that is a decline into chaos.

701
00:43:57,640 –> 00:44:00,896
That’s not a rising to a pinnacle. There’s another book that I’m reading

702
00:44:00,928 –> 00:44:04,136
right now, which I won’t say the name of it, but it’s a book about

703
00:44:04,158 –> 00:44:08,356
art history. And the writer talks

704
00:44:08,388 –> 00:44:12,248
about the Apollonian and the Dionosian in

705
00:44:12,414 –> 00:44:15,976
art, right? And Dionysian, she calls the

706
00:44:15,998 –> 00:44:19,032
forces of cathodic nature.

707
00:44:19,176 –> 00:44:22,632
Right? It’s meaningless and it’s

708
00:44:22,696 –> 00:44:27,100
diffuse and it’s a maelstrom and it’s separated

709
00:44:28,000 –> 00:44:31,984
and there’s no lines, everything’s mushed. And then the Apollonian comes

710
00:44:32,022 –> 00:44:35,792
out of that and makes things sharp and

711
00:44:35,846 –> 00:44:39,520
makes things distinguishable and makes things

712
00:44:39,590 –> 00:44:42,976
definitive. It’s weird because I’ve been thinking about this a lot,

713
00:44:42,998 –> 00:44:45,428
like in relation to sort of where is this podcast going to go in the

714
00:44:45,434 –> 00:44:50,884
next three to five years? Been thinking a lot about that, and we

715
00:44:50,922 –> 00:44:54,980
definitely started out in sort of a mushy

716
00:44:55,560 –> 00:44:58,760
Dionosian mess. But as we go along,

717
00:44:58,830 –> 00:45:01,916
we’re becoming more and more abalone in our focus. And by the

718
00:45:01,918 –> 00:45:05,064
way, this is not something I’m consciously thinking about. This is something that’s just sort

719
00:45:05,102 –> 00:45:08,844
of happening, right? That energy

720
00:45:08,962 –> 00:45:12,716
that’s just on this podcast alone is the same energy that you

721
00:45:12,738 –> 00:45:16,124
see in the tea ceremony. It’s the same energy that

722
00:45:16,162 –> 00:45:19,864
you see in dropping a couple of ice cubes

723
00:45:19,992 –> 00:45:23,664
and having a great whiskey, right, and hanging out with your friends. It’s the same

724
00:45:23,702 –> 00:45:26,832
energy that you see you mentioned sex in all

725
00:45:26,886 –> 00:45:29,936
of the stuff that we do in order to engage intimately and

726
00:45:29,958 –> 00:45:33,444
sexually with our partners, right? The things we don’t talk about.

727
00:45:33,562 –> 00:45:37,024
We’re pulling something out of that Dionysian

728
00:45:37,072 –> 00:45:40,596
mess. We’re pulling something out of it, and we’re making it

729
00:45:40,618 –> 00:45:44,120
sharp and clear and definitive. And people need that.

730
00:45:44,190 –> 00:45:47,748
People need that in order to have structure out of chaos.

731
00:45:47,924 –> 00:45:50,410
And Natobe understood that.

732
00:45:51,900 –> 00:45:55,528
Speaking of Toby, let’s talk a little bit about

733
00:45:55,694 –> 00:45:58,956
in his own toby, let’s sort of introduce you

734
00:45:58,978 –> 00:46:02,796
to this man. Back to the way of the Samurai from

735
00:46:02,818 –> 00:46:06,764
the introduction in his own adobe, 1862 to

736
00:46:06,802 –> 00:46:10,984
1933, a distinguished

737
00:46:11,032 –> 00:46:15,304
agricultural economist, author, educator, diplomat, and statesman

738
00:46:15,432 –> 00:46:19,516
in his own adobe was born in Morioka in what is now the Iwata

739
00:46:19,548 –> 00:46:22,976
Prefecture. His father, Gigiro Natobe, died when

740
00:46:22,998 –> 00:46:26,196
Enizo was only five years old, and in 1869 he moved to

741
00:46:26,218 –> 00:46:29,904
Tokyo to live with his adoptive uncle, tokitoshi Ota,

742
00:46:30,032 –> 00:46:33,156
to whom he dedicated to the present book because he had taught him

743
00:46:33,178 –> 00:46:36,472
at an early age to, quote, revere the past

744
00:46:36,526 –> 00:46:39,560
and to admire the deeds of the Samurai unquote.

745
00:46:40,620 –> 00:46:44,516
In 1877, Enizo entered the Sapporo Agricultural

746
00:46:44,548 –> 00:46:47,540
College, now Hokkaido University, to study agriculture,

747
00:46:47,620 –> 00:46:50,972
a decision that was probably due to Emperor Meiji’s wish that the Natobe family

748
00:46:51,026 –> 00:46:55,144
continue with their development of the once barren land near present day Tawada.

749
00:46:55,272 –> 00:46:58,996
Sepora had been founded the preceding year by William S. Clark,

750
00:46:59,128 –> 00:47:02,828
former president of the Massachusetts Agricultural College, and Clark’s influence

751
00:47:02,844 –> 00:47:06,956
was such that some 30 or so students, including Inazo Natobe,

752
00:47:07,068 –> 00:47:11,728
converted to Christianity. In 1883,

753
00:47:11,814 –> 00:47:15,484
Natobe began studying English literature and economics at Tokyo University,

754
00:47:15,532 –> 00:47:18,612
but left within a year to continue his studies in the United States at John

755
00:47:18,666 –> 00:47:22,464
Hopkins University in Baltimore. While there, he became a member of the Religious Society

756
00:47:22,512 –> 00:47:26,148
of Friends Quakers, through whom he met his future wife,

757
00:47:26,244 –> 00:47:28,600
Mary Patterson Elkington.

758
00:47:29,260 –> 00:47:32,836
From Baltimore, he went to Hale University in Germany, where he gained a doctorate

759
00:47:32,868 –> 00:47:36,836
in agricultural economics and then returned briefly to Philadelphia to marry Mary

760
00:47:36,868 –> 00:47:40,448
Elkington before taking up an assistant to professorship at Sapporo

761
00:47:40,484 –> 00:47:44,136
in 1891. Appointments to full professorships

762
00:47:44,168 –> 00:47:48,756
followed, first at Kyoto Imperial University and then at the law faculty at Tokyo

763
00:47:48,808 –> 00:47:52,188
Imperial University. And in 1918, he was appointed founding

764
00:47:52,204 –> 00:47:56,640
president of Tokyo Joshidai, tokyo Women’s university.

765
00:47:57,380 –> 00:48:00,928
In 1919, Natobi attended the Paris Peace Conference and in

766
00:48:00,934 –> 00:48:04,656
the aftermath of World War I joined with other reformed minded Japanese

767
00:48:04,688 –> 00:48:08,470
in setting up the Japan Council of the Institute of Pacific Relations.

768
00:48:09,320 –> 00:48:13,792
In 1920, he moved to Geneva, Switzerland, to become one of the Undersecretaries

769
00:48:13,856 –> 00:48:17,652
general of the newly established League of nations. League of nations

770
00:48:17,716 –> 00:48:21,800
was a precursor to the UN, which came out of World War II.

771
00:48:22,540 –> 00:48:26,372
He also became a founding director of the International Committee on Intellectual Cooperation,

772
00:48:26,436 –> 00:48:29,736
the precursor of UNESCO. On his retirement from the League of nations,

773
00:48:29,768 –> 00:48:32,876
he returned to Japan and served in the House of Peers in

774
00:48:32,898 –> 00:48:36,204
the Japanese Imperial Parliament, where he spoke out

775
00:48:36,322 –> 00:48:40,800
against the increasing militarism of Japan.

776
00:48:41,700 –> 00:48:45,596
In 1933, he attended a conference of the Institute

777
00:48:45,628 –> 00:48:48,780
of Pacific Relations in Banff, Alberta.

778
00:48:48,940 –> 00:48:53,492
On his way home from the conference, he succumbed to pneumonia and

779
00:48:53,546 –> 00:48:57,412
died in hospital in Victoria, British Columbia, at the

780
00:48:57,466 –> 00:48:59,430
age of 71.

781
00:49:01,320 –> 00:49:04,608
The present book is perhaps the best known of Natobi’s written

782
00:49:04,624 –> 00:49:07,464
works, but he was such a prolific author that the Japanese edition of his complete

783
00:49:07,502 –> 00:49:11,064
works extends to 25 volumes, while his works in English and

784
00:49:11,102 –> 00:49:14,356
other Western volumes Western

785
00:49:14,388 –> 00:49:18,116
languages, I’m Sorry have been published as a five volume set. His lifelong

786
00:49:18,148 –> 00:49:21,596
goal to become a bridge across the Pacific is celebrated in

787
00:49:21,618 –> 00:49:25,096
several biographies, both in English and Japanese and in two memorial

788
00:49:25,128 –> 00:49:28,792
gardens in Canada one at the Royal Jubilee Hospital in Victoria, British Columbia,

789
00:49:28,856 –> 00:49:32,468
and the other at the University of British Columbia Botanical Garden and center for Plant

790
00:49:32,504 –> 00:49:35,904
Research in Vancouver. With its tea house

791
00:49:35,942 –> 00:49:39,276
and stroll garden, the latter is considered to be one of the most authentic Japanese

792
00:49:39,308 –> 00:49:42,880
gardens in North America and one of the finest outside of Japan.

793
00:49:43,220 –> 00:49:46,020
The Natobe Memorial Museum in Towada City,

794
00:49:46,090 –> 00:49:49,524
Japan, celebrates the life of Enzo Natobe as well as the lives of his

795
00:49:49,562 –> 00:49:53,204
father and grandfather, whose irrigation canals brought new

796
00:49:53,242 –> 00:49:56,408
life to the region. The museum’s tribute to

797
00:49:56,414 –> 00:50:00,296
the Natobe family’s long samurai history includes a

798
00:50:00,318 –> 00:50:04,280
collection of armor and other military artifacts.

799
00:50:04,780 –> 00:50:08,604
Enzo Natobe received recognition of a different kind when

800
00:50:08,642 –> 00:50:12,424
his portrait was figured was featured on the ¥5000

801
00:50:12,472 –> 00:50:15,916
note from 1984 to 2004.

802
00:50:16,018 –> 00:50:19,704
And this is a quote

803
00:50:19,752 –> 00:50:23,088
from Enizo Natobe what is important

804
00:50:23,174 –> 00:50:27,388
is to try to develop insights and wisdom rather than mere knowledge,

805
00:50:27,564 –> 00:50:30,690
respect someone’s character rather than his learning,

806
00:50:31,240 –> 00:50:34,612
and nurture men of character rather

807
00:50:34,746 –> 00:50:37,220
than mere talents,

808
00:50:44,230 –> 00:50:47,570
revere the past and admire the deeds of the samurai.

809
00:50:48,230 –> 00:50:52,102
This was the driving force of in his own toby this was

810
00:50:52,236 –> 00:50:55,254
the fuel in his engine, probably from the time

811
00:50:55,292 –> 00:50:59,350
he was not probably from the time he was a little boy until his death.

812
00:51:00,250 –> 00:51:04,522
His lifelong goal in becoming a bridge across the Pacific came

813
00:51:04,576 –> 00:51:08,054
during a time when the predominant drivers of interaction,

814
00:51:08,102 –> 00:51:11,526
at least at an international level, and he surely saw this in the circles

815
00:51:11,558 –> 00:51:16,750
he was running in. Those drivers were isolationism

816
00:51:17,250 –> 00:51:21,066
in an American context. America refused to join the League

817
00:51:21,098 –> 00:51:25,280
of nations. They proclaimed we proclaimed that

818
00:51:26,070 –> 00:51:29,902
anything that happened between World War I and World War II was a European

819
00:51:29,966 –> 00:51:32,610
problem for European people to solve.

820
00:51:33,270 –> 00:51:36,738
So isolationism was driving it as well as

821
00:51:36,904 –> 00:51:40,566
not racism. That’s very specific and

822
00:51:40,588 –> 00:51:44,134
individualized. Racialism was more the

823
00:51:44,172 –> 00:51:47,986
driver. Racialism in Japan over the Chinese,

824
00:51:48,098 –> 00:51:51,834
racialism in China over the Japanese, racialism in

825
00:51:51,872 –> 00:51:55,306
Korea, over everyone racialism in

826
00:51:55,328 –> 00:51:59,238
America that came in the form of isolationism. And of course, Jim Crow

827
00:51:59,414 –> 00:52:03,174
and of course, racialism in Europe,

828
00:52:03,302 –> 00:52:06,846
not just Germany. Russia, by the way, was struggling with

829
00:52:06,868 –> 00:52:10,846
its own form of racialism during the interwar years between World War

830
00:52:10,868 –> 00:52:14,414
I and World War II. As the man of iron from

831
00:52:14,452 –> 00:52:17,570
Georgia, joseph Stalin

832
00:52:17,990 –> 00:52:21,666
was busy with his five year plan to

833
00:52:21,688 –> 00:52:25,554
make a better Soviet man and

834
00:52:25,592 –> 00:52:26,370
woman.

835
00:52:29,210 –> 00:52:33,446
Natobe, however, worked through all of these circles

836
00:52:33,478 –> 00:52:36,646
and saw all of these things happening during a time I’m

837
00:52:36,678 –> 00:52:40,170
sure he thought was chaotic. I’m sure he thought

838
00:52:40,240 –> 00:52:44,190
was a time of little hope. And instead

839
00:52:44,260 –> 00:52:47,066
of turning to despair,

840
00:52:47,178 –> 00:52:50,794
he threw himself into action. He threw

841
00:52:50,842 –> 00:52:54,894
himself into planting seeds. And with his background in

842
00:52:54,932 –> 00:52:58,706
agriculture, he knew something that farmers know, that we industrialists and

843
00:52:58,728 –> 00:53:02,386
we post post industrialists have forgotten. He knew that

844
00:53:02,408 –> 00:53:06,274
you had to recognize and honor the natural rhythms of the earth in

845
00:53:06,312 –> 00:53:09,494
planting sowing and reaping, and that acknowledging those

846
00:53:09,532 –> 00:53:13,302
rhythms which operate in us today is important for

847
00:53:13,356 –> 00:53:13,960
success.

848
00:53:16,890 –> 00:53:20,418
There’s so many things to glean from the life of in a zona.

849
00:53:20,434 –> 00:53:23,494
Toby if you go to his Wikipedia article,

850
00:53:23,622 –> 00:53:27,674
it’s actually kind of thin. You’ve really got to go to

851
00:53:27,872 –> 00:53:31,738
the Japanese Wiki to find out some information about him

852
00:53:31,904 –> 00:53:35,598
and really go to some Japanese websites and

853
00:53:35,684 –> 00:53:39,246
they honor him quite greatly. And it’s interesting because of

854
00:53:39,268 –> 00:53:43,120
everything that happened after the war, japan had to go back and have sort of

855
00:53:45,090 –> 00:53:48,706
a reckoning with men like Natoby who

856
00:53:48,888 –> 00:53:52,734
were against war and didn’t

857
00:53:52,782 –> 00:53:55,380
think that that was going to be the solution to the problem.

858
00:53:57,350 –> 00:54:00,386
Laying out the life of in his own. Toby john,

859
00:54:00,568 –> 00:54:03,240
what insights can leaders take from this man?

860
00:54:03,850 –> 00:54:07,014
I’ll be honest, I had no idea how great he was until I actually started

861
00:54:07,052 –> 00:54:10,940
reading The Way of the Samurai and really started digging into him a little bit.

862
00:54:11,550 –> 00:54:15,686
Same I spent a lot more time learning about Chinese

863
00:54:15,798 –> 00:54:19,354
philosophy and martial arts stuff than I have Japanese stuff because

864
00:54:19,392 –> 00:54:22,614
that’s where my mother

865
00:54:22,662 –> 00:54:25,920
tongue is a Chinese art. Right. As far as, like, kung fu goes,

866
00:54:26,450 –> 00:54:30,202
I really love this quote.

867
00:54:30,266 –> 00:54:33,902
Right. It is important to try to develop insights and wisdom rather

868
00:54:33,956 –> 00:54:39,202
than mere knowledge. Right. It has never been

869
00:54:39,256 –> 00:54:43,186
easier to do a Google search word that

870
00:54:43,208 –> 00:54:47,918
Google search in a way that it confirms your biases and never challenge

871
00:54:48,094 –> 00:54:51,750
any conventions that you have or that you’re holding.

872
00:54:52,090 –> 00:54:55,446
The thing that I think is really interesting around this is

873
00:54:55,468 –> 00:54:59,030
just how much travel he did. Oh, man. Got him around,

874
00:54:59,180 –> 00:55:02,826
how much he purposefully sought out probably

875
00:55:02,928 –> 00:55:07,034
very uncomfortable situations. Right. Being an Asian man here

876
00:55:07,232 –> 00:55:09,740
during that time probably was difficult.

877
00:55:11,150 –> 00:55:15,886
And I think the

878
00:55:15,908 –> 00:55:19,082
amount of effort and worldliness that he brings

879
00:55:19,146 –> 00:55:22,426
to this discussion right. And you mentioned this before, right? He’s pulling

880
00:55:22,458 –> 00:55:25,926
concepts from his mother tongue

881
00:55:26,058 –> 00:55:30,180
of confucianism and everything else like this, but he’s also talking about Greeks and

882
00:55:31,430 –> 00:55:34,962
nobility and English feudalism and all of this stuff.

883
00:55:35,016 –> 00:55:38,674
And you have to give the man

884
00:55:38,712 –> 00:55:42,086
the benefit of the doubt that he’s got some knowledge here, which is

885
00:55:42,108 –> 00:55:45,670
great because we have

886
00:55:45,740 –> 00:55:48,774
people who were like experts after watching reading one

887
00:55:48,812 –> 00:55:52,774
blog post or watching one YouTube thing, they’ve never tried it. They’ve never

888
00:55:52,812 –> 00:55:56,134
done it, but they’re more than willing to kind of shots

889
00:55:56,182 –> 00:55:59,606
fired a hot take about why something doesn’t work and you’ve

890
00:55:59,638 –> 00:56:02,766
never tried it. And that’s exactly what he’s speaking to at the end of this

891
00:56:02,788 –> 00:56:04,080
thing. Exactly.

892
00:56:08,290 –> 00:56:12,080
I think the biggest lesson, and maybe this is kind of

893
00:56:12,530 –> 00:56:15,806
just timeliness, is go travel,

894
00:56:15,908 –> 00:56:19,642
go experience other cultures. Like, go do something outside of the norm.

895
00:56:19,796 –> 00:56:23,138
I just got a pretty unique opportunity to go to

896
00:56:23,144 –> 00:56:26,386
Dubai, and it’s my first time to go out of the US. And I went

897
00:56:26,408 –> 00:56:29,890
to a conference, and I think there was one other American in the entire

898
00:56:29,960 –> 00:56:33,030
conference. And I’m out there, I’m networking,

899
00:56:33,450 –> 00:56:37,350
rubbing elbows, trying to get meetings, and everyone was like, Why are you here?

900
00:56:37,500 –> 00:56:40,598
I was like, well, this is where the cool people hang out. I want to

901
00:56:40,604 –> 00:56:44,098
come hang cool people. And it was such

902
00:56:44,124 –> 00:56:48,138
like an eye opening moment, and everyone talks about this. After you go experience

903
00:56:48,224 –> 00:56:51,354
another culture for the first time, you feel a little bit more worldly, a little

904
00:56:51,392 –> 00:56:55,366
smaller, like maybe some of the things that you knew to be right weren’t

905
00:56:55,398 –> 00:56:59,326
actually right. And you can see some of that stuff. I think everyone

906
00:56:59,428 –> 00:57:03,406
should should travel, should go experience these things, because he wouldn’t be talking about

907
00:57:03,428 –> 00:57:06,590
these things had he not gone through his experiences.

908
00:57:07,810 –> 00:57:10,498
And even if he did, no one would take him seriously because he wouldn’t be

909
00:57:10,504 –> 00:57:13,794
able to reference anything else that we could make sense of.

910
00:57:13,912 –> 00:57:17,300
Right before we turned on the recording, we were both kind of, like,

911
00:57:17,690 –> 00:57:21,490
going on and on about how the metaphor of equating

912
00:57:21,570 –> 00:57:24,626
samurai to chivalry

913
00:57:24,738 –> 00:57:28,326
and knights and squires and everything makes the rest

914
00:57:28,348 –> 00:57:31,526
of the book so much easier to read and to you know what? I can

915
00:57:31,548 –> 00:57:35,226
get a little bit behind that because of that metaphor that he starts with.

916
00:57:35,328 –> 00:57:38,860
We wouldn’t be able to appreciate that if the man hadn’t spent time

917
00:57:39,390 –> 00:57:42,010
learning all these different cultures and really understanding it.

918
00:57:42,080 –> 00:57:42,700
Right.

919
00:57:45,890 –> 00:57:49,690
The only way that you actually begin to appreciate

920
00:57:49,770 –> 00:57:53,598
and see your own culture is when you leave it and have to look back

921
00:57:53,764 –> 00:57:57,662
at it through another culture’s eyes. I fundamentally

922
00:57:57,726 –> 00:58:01,426
believe that it is a tragedy that

923
00:58:01,448 –> 00:58:05,374
most Americans I would say most many Americans

924
00:58:05,502 –> 00:58:08,500
don’t have a passport right now.

925
00:58:10,950 –> 00:58:15,094
I think COVID shook some people out of their nue in

926
00:58:15,132 –> 00:58:18,326
ways that they had not expected. And I do believe fundamentally the great

927
00:58:18,348 –> 00:58:21,778
American migration is still on. I mean, we went from a period

928
00:58:21,794 –> 00:58:25,530
of time between, I would say the early ninety s to about

929
00:58:25,600 –> 00:58:29,446
to about the time of COVID when the average number of people who actually moved

930
00:58:29,478 –> 00:58:33,342
out of their localities dropped precipitously. I mean, we actually

931
00:58:33,396 –> 00:58:37,658
moved more in the 1960s and 1970s for job opportunities,

932
00:58:37,754 –> 00:58:41,194
for family issues, to live in different places.

933
00:58:41,242 –> 00:58:45,258
I mean, immigration intercountry integrational

934
00:58:45,354 –> 00:58:48,638
patterns were more robust in the

935
00:58:48,644 –> 00:58:52,174
than they were at a time when we were at our height of technological progress.

936
00:58:52,302 –> 00:58:55,522
But it kind of makes sense because if you’re trapped in the phone,

937
00:58:55,656 –> 00:58:58,642
you don’t think you need to go anywhere. It’s true.

938
00:58:58,776 –> 00:59:02,018
Yeah. If you’re talking to people on the Internet from Australia, why do

939
00:59:02,024 –> 00:59:03,894
you need to go to Australia? I could talk to somebody on the Internet from

940
00:59:03,932 –> 00:59:08,082
Australia. I don’t need to see what’s happening with somebody in Indiana

941
00:59:08,226 –> 00:59:11,366
because I could just go read what the New York Times says is happening about

942
00:59:11,388 –> 00:59:14,406
something in Indiana. Something happening in Indiana. Except the weird

943
00:59:14,438 –> 00:59:17,782
thing is the local news has declined in America.

944
00:59:17,846 –> 00:59:23,366
We’re not going to get into all that. But that’s a massively apocryphal

945
00:59:23,398 –> 00:59:27,034
and apocalyptic thing

946
00:59:27,072 –> 00:59:30,774
that has happened in America. And so there’s

947
00:59:30,822 –> 00:59:34,862
no connection to your own locality. Instead, there’s this larger connection

948
00:59:35,046 –> 00:59:38,162
to something that’s global, but we don’t even really know what that means.

949
00:59:38,296 –> 00:59:41,506
Emmanuel Kant was once asked, what does a man of the world look like?

950
00:59:41,528 –> 00:59:43,554
And he’s like, I don’t know what a citizen of the world look like?

951
00:59:43,592 –> 00:59:47,122
And Emmanuel Kant, the, the philosopher, infamously said, I don’t know what that looks like.

952
00:59:47,176 –> 00:59:49,766
I don’t even know how to answer that question. And he’s sort of wandered over

953
00:59:49,788 –> 00:59:51,640
there the way Germans sometimes do.

954
00:59:54,090 –> 00:59:57,634
And this was a response or a pushback

955
00:59:57,682 –> 01:00:01,466
against the Rousseauian notion at the same time that about the same time Kant was

956
01:00:01,488 –> 01:00:05,580
around, that you could create this new man that would be a global man.

957
01:00:07,150 –> 01:00:08,940
Localities still matter,

958
01:00:11,150 –> 01:00:14,990
and in a country that’s the size of a continent,

959
01:00:15,330 –> 01:00:18,794
Americans, you got to get up and get after it. You got to go somewhere

960
01:00:18,842 –> 01:00:24,634
else, even if it’s only moving from Pittsburgh

961
01:00:24,762 –> 01:00:27,842
to Iowa, go get on the move.

962
01:00:27,976 –> 01:00:31,218
So I do think that’s happening now. I think COVID again shook people out of

963
01:00:31,224 –> 01:00:35,282
their inui. But the other thing that’s happening is

964
01:00:35,336 –> 01:00:39,978
Natobe was atobi’s natobe,

965
01:00:40,014 –> 01:00:44,790
as an avatar of a particular time existed during

966
01:00:44,860 –> 01:00:48,498
a period of transitional change, similar to the period

967
01:00:48,514 –> 01:00:52,074
of transitional change we are going through at a global level, global cultural level

968
01:00:52,112 –> 01:00:56,220
now. So you said you went to Dubai. That’s really interesting because

969
01:00:56,590 –> 01:00:59,690
quite frankly, the world is deglobalizing.

970
01:01:00,430 –> 01:01:03,898
There’s a writer and demographer and geographer that

971
01:01:03,904 –> 01:01:06,714
I follow. I’ve bought all four of his books. I read his stuff. I listen

972
01:01:06,752 –> 01:01:10,794
to his read his blog, listen to his podcast. Guy named Peter Zehan.

973
01:01:10,922 –> 01:01:13,342
By the way, those of you who are listening, you should check him out.

974
01:01:13,476 –> 01:01:16,574
The least hair on fire analysis of what’s happening in the world

975
01:01:16,612 –> 01:01:19,774
today with absolutely no politics involved. It’s kind of amazing,

976
01:01:19,892 –> 01:01:23,106
right? And that’s why I buy into him. I don’t buy

977
01:01:23,128 –> 01:01:26,434
all of his conclusions, but most of 80% of them are backed up by like,

978
01:01:26,472 –> 01:01:29,362
okay, I see the numbers. I see what you’re talking about. That makes sense.

979
01:01:29,496 –> 01:01:32,358
And one of the points he makes is that since 1989, we’ve been in a

980
01:01:32,364 –> 01:01:35,894
process of deglobalization. We’ve been in a process of

981
01:01:35,932 –> 01:01:39,720
America ratcheting back, ratcheting back, ratcheting back,

982
01:01:40,170 –> 01:01:43,578
and other regions of the world stepping up and

983
01:01:43,664 –> 01:01:47,820
kind of being in a panic about America ratcheting back, but stepping into

984
01:01:48,510 –> 01:01:51,802
that vacuum. And you most recently see this in the deal that China made with

985
01:01:51,856 –> 01:01:55,562
Iran and Saudi Arabia to get oil. And the Americans had nothing to

986
01:01:55,616 –> 01:01:58,320
we Americans had nothing to say about that. We’re like, yeah,

987
01:01:58,850 –> 01:02:02,478
China, you go ahead. You have a good time. Because we’re actually going to

988
01:02:02,484 –> 01:02:06,018
be a net exporter of oil next year. For, like, the second or

989
01:02:06,024 –> 01:02:07,620
third time in our country’s history,

990
01:02:09,830 –> 01:02:13,806
the cries of no blood for oil doesn’t

991
01:02:13,838 –> 01:02:17,454
really work anymore because we just pump it out of our own ground.

992
01:02:17,582 –> 01:02:20,646
Now, we could argue about the environmental aspects of that and whether or not that

993
01:02:20,668 –> 01:02:23,430
could be clean or dirty and carbon and all that,

994
01:02:23,580 –> 01:02:27,650
but that process of deglobalization

995
01:02:27,730 –> 01:02:31,190
is already a pace and has been going on for quite some time. Okay?

996
01:02:31,340 –> 01:02:35,930
I say all that to say this. Natobe existed during a time of colonialization

997
01:02:36,670 –> 01:02:40,570
when the exact same chaos was happening. And the League of nations

998
01:02:40,910 –> 01:02:44,906
was an early attempt to bring together the globe, was an

999
01:02:44,928 –> 01:02:48,846
early attempt to unite people together, which, of course, really didn’t work well

1000
01:02:48,868 –> 01:02:52,814
into the United States. Sat down with everybody at Brett Woods in 1945

1001
01:02:52,852 –> 01:02:56,478
and said, in exchange for you having the biggest consumer market

1002
01:02:56,644 –> 01:02:59,998
on the planet, which we had already been the biggest consumer market on the planet

1003
01:03:00,014 –> 01:03:03,346
since the end of the civil War. But in exchange for access to

1004
01:03:03,368 –> 01:03:06,754
that without tariffs, you’ll appreciate this. As a sales guy. We will

1005
01:03:06,792 –> 01:03:09,906
guard your supply chains, and we will send our children to die in wars for

1006
01:03:09,928 –> 01:03:12,802
you. How about that? And all the rest of the world was in shock.

1007
01:03:12,946 –> 01:03:16,086
Because usually what happened at the end of

1008
01:03:16,108 –> 01:03:19,638
a war like an apocalyptic war like World War II, was the

1009
01:03:19,644 –> 01:03:22,399
victor came in and just dictated to everybody and said, we’re going to put a

1010
01:03:22,899 –> 01:03:26,474
base here, here, here, here and here. And if you behave in such

1011
01:03:26,512 –> 01:03:30,454
a manner that irritates us, we’ll come in and we’ll smack

1012
01:03:30,502 –> 01:03:33,600
you so hard that you’ll never get up again.

1013
01:03:34,370 –> 01:03:37,598
But America didn’t do that again.

1014
01:03:37,684 –> 01:03:41,230
We could argue about whether that was good, bad, or ugly, but it did create.

1015
01:03:41,300 –> 01:03:44,654
The environment, a post war World

1016
01:03:44,692 –> 01:03:48,702
War II environment that Natobi, I think, would have appreciated, where Japan

1017
01:03:48,766 –> 01:03:52,242
was able to literally build itself out of the ashes and

1018
01:03:52,296 –> 01:03:56,594
start selling US cars that run forever along

1019
01:03:56,632 –> 01:03:57,940
with everything else.

1020
01:04:00,410 –> 01:04:03,526
I think there’s an insight there for leaders, because as we

1021
01:04:03,548 –> 01:04:07,350
are moving into an area, I worry more of isolationism,

1022
01:04:07,690 –> 01:04:11,510
because in decalization, you get isolationism. You get that pulling away, you get that separating.

1023
01:04:11,670 –> 01:04:15,706
I worry that the temptation to stay home might be

1024
01:04:15,728 –> 01:04:19,434
too great. I feel that,

1025
01:04:19,552 –> 01:04:22,010
and that’s a real concern for me. For leaders.

1026
01:04:22,930 –> 01:04:26,314
This is slightly tangential, maybe, but I’m. Curious,

1027
01:04:26,362 –> 01:04:29,920
right, because I’m going on about globalization, so go ahead. Yeah.

1028
01:04:33,970 –> 01:04:36,974
I can only really reference, like, the jokey version of this, right?

1029
01:04:37,012 –> 01:04:40,034
That no one really wants to be part of the Zoom Happy Hour and these

1030
01:04:40,072 –> 01:04:43,554
forced interactions with your team and stuff like that. So how

1031
01:04:43,592 –> 01:04:47,220
does a leader, in your opinion, do a good job of building

1032
01:04:48,330 –> 01:04:51,800
the right culture with the right amount of

1033
01:04:52,170 –> 01:04:55,446
balance between, hey, we need to be together so that way

1034
01:04:55,468 –> 01:05:00,242
we can be on the same page. Right. But we also don’t

1035
01:05:00,306 –> 01:05:04,006
need, like, a business is not a family. And one of my

1036
01:05:04,028 –> 01:05:06,780
biggest red flags is whenever I’m talking to a founder and they’re like, yeah,

1037
01:05:07,150 –> 01:05:09,260
we want to make the salesperson part of the family.

1038
01:05:09,630 –> 01:05:13,150
Nah, can’t go with you. That’s a nightmare for everyone

1039
01:05:13,220 –> 01:05:16,750
involved. So I’m curious,

1040
01:05:18,370 –> 01:05:21,834
how do people do that right now with hybrid environments,

1041
01:05:21,882 –> 01:05:25,054
remote environments, my team,

1042
01:05:25,252 –> 01:05:28,510
I get a really cool opportunity working with my partner. It’s amazing.

1043
01:05:28,580 –> 01:05:30,898
We don’t even work in the same room because she gets tired of hearing my

1044
01:05:30,904 –> 01:05:34,366
voice all day long. Understandably so. But, like, everyone else is global.

1045
01:05:34,478 –> 01:05:37,858
I work with people all over the world, which is awesome, and I

1046
01:05:37,864 –> 01:05:41,574
love it. And I remember the first time someone was mad at me

1047
01:05:41,692 –> 01:05:44,546
that I was choosing to work with overseas contractors,

1048
01:05:44,738 –> 01:05:48,360
because in their opinion, US was number one.

1049
01:05:48,970 –> 01:05:52,714
I was like, okay, based on what? Help me understand

1050
01:05:52,912 –> 01:05:56,714
where this is coming from, because these

1051
01:05:56,752 –> 01:06:00,134
people that I’m working with are solid. They know their stuff. They’re capable

1052
01:06:00,182 –> 01:06:02,540
of working. They’re accountable. They can get everything done,

1053
01:06:03,170 –> 01:06:07,018
and it’s fine. I’m curious,

1054
01:06:07,114 –> 01:06:11,486
what are your thoughts on that? I think there’s a bifurcation happening

1055
01:06:11,588 –> 01:06:15,066
right now, and it’s a split

1056
01:06:15,098 –> 01:06:18,414
that started in COVID, but it’s just

1057
01:06:18,452 –> 01:06:21,954
widened as time has gone on, and I don’t think

1058
01:06:21,992 –> 01:06:24,740
the two splits can be put back together.

1059
01:06:25,990 –> 01:06:29,846
So Free 2020, only around 1% to 2%

1060
01:06:29,948 –> 01:06:32,870
of the white collar workforce worked remotely.

1061
01:06:34,250 –> 01:06:38,182
At the height of the pandemic, it was something like 60%. It was

1062
01:06:38,236 –> 01:06:41,874
ridiculous. Dang, I would honestly have pegged it higher

1063
01:06:41,932 –> 01:06:45,418
than 60, honestly. And you can go check my numbers, by the

1064
01:06:45,424 –> 01:06:48,026
way, listeners. You can go check my numbers, but the last thing I saw is

1065
01:06:48,048 –> 01:06:49,260
around 60%.

1066
01:06:52,290 –> 01:06:56,414
But among blue collar workers or workers that could not do

1067
01:06:56,452 –> 01:06:59,886
their job remotely, 100% of

1068
01:06:59,908 –> 01:07:03,354
them still showed up. Yeah, that’s the bifurcation.

1069
01:07:03,482 –> 01:07:06,914
That’s the split. So let me make this

1070
01:07:06,952 –> 01:07:10,814
very real. If you’re leading garbage

1071
01:07:10,862 –> 01:07:14,706
men, they don’t know what the

1072
01:07:14,728 –> 01:07:18,274
problem is. They showed up to work every

1073
01:07:18,312 –> 01:07:22,006
day. Yeah. Sometimes they had to wear masks, but most of the

1074
01:07:22,028 –> 01:07:25,478
time, most of those guys yeah.

1075
01:07:25,644 –> 01:07:29,558
Nobody cared about them. They just cared that the garbage went away.

1076
01:07:29,724 –> 01:07:32,620
And by the way, interestingly enough, in your community,

1077
01:07:33,070 –> 01:07:36,202
in my community, during COVID even though community I left,

1078
01:07:36,256 –> 01:07:40,458
garbage still got picked up. Yeah. Kind of amazing,

1079
01:07:40,544 –> 01:07:43,260
right? Not actually not amazing.

1080
01:07:44,990 –> 01:07:48,314
That’s the bifurcation. That’s the split. And so

1081
01:07:48,512 –> 01:07:51,966
what you will see happening I’m going to relate this to literature is sort

1082
01:07:51,988 –> 01:07:55,306
of a split, like an HG. Wells time machine. And this is what I worry

1083
01:07:55,338 –> 01:07:59,170
about. The Borlocks and the eloy. You’re a geek. You’ll appreciate this.

1084
01:07:59,240 –> 01:08:03,262
This is what I worry about. I worry that the Eloy

1085
01:08:03,326 –> 01:08:06,706
are all the white collar folks that are working remotely and are getting talent from

1086
01:08:06,728 –> 01:08:10,914
other places and are just sort of floating

1087
01:08:10,962 –> 01:08:14,550
along on the surface, not appreciating what the morlocks are doing underneath.

1088
01:08:15,130 –> 01:08:18,726
Man I had this realization because I

1089
01:08:18,748 –> 01:08:22,210
was delivering mostly via Zoom, mostly digitally

1090
01:08:22,290 –> 01:08:26,182
before COVID right. So my life didn’t radically

1091
01:08:26,246 –> 01:08:29,466
change during COVID I had a big revenue swing, almost lost my business, and had

1092
01:08:29,488 –> 01:08:32,554
to figure out a bunch of stuff. But everyone was going

1093
01:08:32,592 –> 01:08:36,542
through that whole thing. And then I would see on social

1094
01:08:36,596 –> 01:08:40,046
media, everyone complaining about masks and not having to wear them and wearing them and

1095
01:08:40,068 –> 01:08:44,286
everything else like this, and fast forward

1096
01:08:44,388 –> 01:08:48,046
a month or something like this, and then I’m

1097
01:08:48,068 –> 01:08:50,546
going to go pick up food because things are kind of back opened up and

1098
01:08:50,568 –> 01:08:52,978
stuff like that. So I’m going to go pick up some food to bring it

1099
01:08:52,984 –> 01:08:55,700
back to the house. And I just have this realization of, like,

1100
01:08:56,390 –> 01:09:00,270
whoa, I don’t have to do this anymore.

1101
01:09:00,430 –> 01:09:03,794
Because I came up in retail environments, I sold cell phones,

1102
01:09:03,922 –> 01:09:07,702
and then I worked in a bank. And you know those people are

1103
01:09:07,756 –> 01:09:10,826
being called in, right, that they have to be there even if it doesn’t make

1104
01:09:10,928 –> 01:09:14,460
financial sense, right. From labor and revenue and all that other stuff.

1105
01:09:16,910 –> 01:09:20,426
It wasn’t even on my radar that I

1106
01:09:20,448 –> 01:09:23,466
was like a unique person because I can work from

1107
01:09:23,488 –> 01:09:27,006
home, and I already was, and my life didn’t really change. And so

1108
01:09:27,028 –> 01:09:30,698
when I was like, guys, masks really aren’t that bad. I don’t

1109
01:09:30,714 –> 01:09:34,894
have to wear one for 12 hours in a warehouse when it’s very

1110
01:09:35,012 –> 01:09:40,626
hot, right. And breathing conditions are already rough and

1111
01:09:40,648 –> 01:09:44,242
kind of going back to empathy and being polite and giving

1112
01:09:44,296 –> 01:09:46,130
people the benefit of the doubt.

1113
01:09:47,910 –> 01:09:51,606
One of my favorite things to think about now is whenever someone cuts me

1114
01:09:51,628 –> 01:09:55,160
off forever, my default mode was, you know what?

1115
01:09:55,850 –> 01:09:59,398
Anger. Right? And you’re a terrible person.

1116
01:09:59,484 –> 01:10:03,370
You got to be complete garbage and holy crap.

1117
01:10:03,950 –> 01:10:07,178
One of my favorite takeaways on my

1118
01:10:07,264 –> 01:10:10,458
sales development path was I was at a sales conference and this guy gets on

1119
01:10:10,464 –> 01:10:14,422
stage. His name is John Rosso. He’s an amazing speaker

1120
01:10:14,566 –> 01:10:17,422
and he’s in the Sailor Network. And he says this line,

1121
01:10:17,556 –> 01:10:21,786
we judge everyone else by their actions but ourselves, by our intentions.

1122
01:10:21,978 –> 01:10:25,214
Oh, yeah. And man, talk about right

1123
01:10:25,252 –> 01:10:28,334
place, right time. When the teacher or when the student is ready, the teacher will

1124
01:10:28,372 –> 01:10:32,306
appear. That line hit me like a ton of bricks, man. Because at

1125
01:10:32,328 –> 01:10:35,614
the time I was selling websites and I was like, man, these aren’t expensive

1126
01:10:35,662 –> 01:10:38,146
websites. We’re cheaper than these other people. And you’re an idiot if you don’t want

1127
01:10:38,168 –> 01:10:41,206
it. Like, you’re dumb if you don’t want us to come in and fix your

1128
01:10:41,228 –> 01:10:44,200
website kind of deal, man.

1129
01:10:44,890 –> 01:10:48,006
Now that I’m not in web, there’s so many improvements I want to make on

1130
01:10:48,028 –> 01:10:51,386
my website. It took us forever to get version two of our

1131
01:10:51,408 –> 01:10:54,540
website out there because I was busy doing other stuff.

1132
01:10:55,150 –> 01:10:58,714
And make no mistake, I’m getting all the outreach from

1133
01:10:58,752 –> 01:11:02,090
everyone. I would love to fix your website

1134
01:11:02,160 –> 01:11:04,240
for you. We’re only $30 an hour.

1135
01:11:07,730 –> 01:11:11,722
I think about that line all the time. And then my voyage into Stoicism

1136
01:11:11,786 –> 01:11:15,540
in the middle of COVID really reinforced all that stuff because

1137
01:11:19,350 –> 01:11:22,674
everything in my life kind of exists on some sort of line,

1138
01:11:22,792 –> 01:11:25,886
right? What’s your favorite thing about that? What’s the worst

1139
01:11:25,918 –> 01:11:29,666
thing about it, right? And I’m a very big nerd about this

1140
01:11:29,688 –> 01:11:32,278
stuff. I always try to put things on a line and process driven. That’s just

1141
01:11:32,284 –> 01:11:35,826
how I think about everything. And I don’t

1142
01:11:35,858 –> 01:11:39,526
have to have an opinion about everything, right? Which was like

1143
01:11:39,628 –> 01:11:42,874
a really kind of, like, oddly empowering moment of like,

1144
01:11:42,912 –> 01:11:46,250
you know what? I don’t have to give a crap about that.

1145
01:11:46,400 –> 01:11:49,162
And now it shows up in the worst ways ever.

1146
01:11:49,216 –> 01:11:52,778
Now, I’ve done a fair amount of work to kind

1147
01:11:52,784 –> 01:11:56,538
of build a moat around myself, around news and media

1148
01:11:56,624 –> 01:11:58,858
and all this stuff because I don’t think it helps me. It just roused me

1149
01:11:58,864 –> 01:12:02,234
up and I. Can’T do anything with it, right? And then there was some big

1150
01:12:02,272 –> 01:12:04,942
thing going on. I don’t remember exactly what it was. And a friend of mine

1151
01:12:04,966 –> 01:12:08,020
was like, man, aren’t you outraged? And I was like,

1152
01:12:08,870 –> 01:12:11,778
I don’t have an opinion. And they were like, how can you not have an

1153
01:12:11,784 –> 01:12:15,746
opinion? And they were just so mad. And I was like, I have so

1154
01:12:15,848 –> 01:12:19,700
many other things I need to have opinions about my business, my family,

1155
01:12:20,470 –> 01:12:24,294
everything else. This thing that’s going to happen with me or

1156
01:12:24,332 –> 01:12:27,000
without me can’t be the thing.

1157
01:12:27,450 –> 01:12:29,960
And they’re like, yeah, but you should be out there. You should be out there

1158
01:12:30,410 –> 01:12:33,500
speaking up, doing your thing or whatever. And I was like, my thing

1159
01:12:33,870 –> 01:12:37,802
is building a business profitable enough that I can then influence change

1160
01:12:37,936 –> 01:12:41,900
at that level. And leading other people yes,

1161
01:12:42,510 –> 01:12:45,938
in a way that actually role models the kind of leadership

1162
01:12:45,974 –> 01:12:48,622
that we need to see in the world. And this is where we go.

1163
01:12:48,676 –> 01:12:52,254
So the bifurcation I’m talking about is

1164
01:12:52,292 –> 01:12:55,200
the same bifurcation that’s happening in companies right now,

1165
01:12:56,150 –> 01:12:59,826
and it’s happening at that microcosmic level.

1166
01:12:59,928 –> 01:13:03,140
And the challenge that leaders have is exactly what you said.

1167
01:13:03,510 –> 01:13:07,266
How do I focus on this thing here that’s happening

1168
01:13:07,368 –> 01:13:10,710
right now that’s going to impact these people

1169
01:13:10,780 –> 01:13:14,086
right now? I’ve often said on the

1170
01:13:14,108 –> 01:13:17,480
podcast, and there’s always new listeners. So I’ll say it again.

1171
01:13:17,850 –> 01:13:21,718
No one that you are leading knows who the

1172
01:13:21,724 –> 01:13:24,642
President of the United States is. Sorry, they just don’t.

1173
01:13:24,786 –> 01:13:27,946
I’m sorry, they just don’t. And by the way, not that they wouldn’t be able

1174
01:13:27,968 –> 01:13:30,598
to find him on a five by five card and a bunch of other presidents,

1175
01:13:30,614 –> 01:13:33,706
they probably would be able to do that. But for the most part,

1176
01:13:33,808 –> 01:13:37,760
this is the secret. Most people don’t know who the president is.

1177
01:13:39,250 –> 01:13:42,160
Most people don’t even know who the governor of their own state is,

1178
01:13:42,610 –> 01:13:46,510
and they have zero clue who the mayor is. They don’t

1179
01:13:47,110 –> 01:13:50,020
know. But you know who they do know? They know john.

1180
01:13:51,270 –> 01:13:54,930
They know exactly who John is. They know hayson.

1181
01:13:55,670 –> 01:13:59,480
They know that guy or that woman. That’s who they know.

1182
01:14:00,170 –> 01:14:03,366
You’re the avatar for leadership, and I’ve been trying to impress this

1183
01:14:03,388 –> 01:14:07,400
upon leaders for the last five years.

1184
01:14:07,850 –> 01:14:11,238
If you want to fix,

1185
01:14:11,324 –> 01:14:15,066
quote unquote, the remote hybrid problem or you

1186
01:14:15,088 –> 01:14:18,426
want to try to figure out, how do I unite this team? Understand that

1187
01:14:18,448 –> 01:14:21,610
you’re the most important person to that team member. Oh, man,

1188
01:14:21,680 –> 01:14:25,882
that’s number one. Number two, if the zoom

1189
01:14:26,026 –> 01:14:29,742
happy hours aren’t working, if the slack channel is

1190
01:14:29,796 –> 01:14:33,454
overwhelming, if the email tool you picked isn’t work,

1191
01:14:33,572 –> 01:14:37,486
stop it. Stop having meetings that don’t go

1192
01:14:37,508 –> 01:14:41,282
anywhere. And actually, instead, here’s what you probably

1193
01:14:41,336 –> 01:14:43,906
need to be doing. If you have a fully remote team and I’ve done this

1194
01:14:43,928 –> 01:14:47,758
for years, if you have a fully remote team, have one meeting

1195
01:14:47,854 –> 01:14:51,506
one time a week with them for an hour, and then let

1196
01:14:51,528 –> 01:14:55,014
them go do their work. By the way, you know how much time

1197
01:14:55,052 –> 01:14:58,726
you’ll have? They’ll all of a sudden be freed. Up to do other things

1198
01:14:58,828 –> 01:15:01,880
the other 39 hours. The other 39 hours, right?

1199
01:15:05,130 –> 01:15:08,458
All of a sudden have, oh, my gosh, you’ll be amazed at the amount of

1200
01:15:08,464 –> 01:15:11,786
things you’ll be able to accomplish. And by the way, you can scale that up

1201
01:15:11,808 –> 01:15:14,666
to your team. Now, after a certain point,

1202
01:15:14,768 –> 01:15:18,590
obviously, it gets to be too much to handle. I would say probably

1203
01:15:18,660 –> 01:15:22,014
about five people, at which point you need to be telling those

1204
01:15:22,052 –> 01:15:25,534
five people to go out and hire two other people, and they have

1205
01:15:25,572 –> 01:15:29,346
meetings on their calendar for an hour with those two people twice a

1206
01:15:29,368 –> 01:15:33,406
week. And that’s it. That’s how you scale that out. But the bravery

1207
01:15:33,438 –> 01:15:37,502
that’s required in doing that pushes back against the hierarchical

1208
01:15:37,566 –> 01:15:41,302
structure that exists, but that now no longer

1209
01:15:41,356 –> 01:15:44,578
serves us in a bifurcated world. Now, if you’re hybrid,

1210
01:15:44,754 –> 01:15:48,354
here’s the bigger challenge for you as a leader. If you’re in a hybrid

1211
01:15:48,402 –> 01:15:52,006
situation where let’s say you’re middle management, you’re the much put

1212
01:15:52,028 –> 01:15:55,480
upon middle manager those are my people, by the way.

1213
01:15:55,950 –> 01:15:59,914
And you’ve got the executive who’s been out on his boat since 2020

1214
01:16:00,032 –> 01:16:02,780
sending you emails about how you got to get everybody back in the office.

1215
01:16:03,810 –> 01:16:07,786
And you’ve got the frontline people who you’re

1216
01:16:07,818 –> 01:16:11,006
monitoring via keystroke, but you can’t justify your

1217
01:16:11,028 –> 01:16:13,390
own managerial existence.

1218
01:16:14,450 –> 01:16:17,838
Again, to paraphrase some goodwill hunting. Number one, don’t do that. Number two,

1219
01:16:17,924 –> 01:16:21,506
you should realize that you’re getting paid $250,000 a year for a job that

1220
01:16:21,528 –> 01:16:25,474
you could probably do the same from home for about 125.

1221
01:16:25,672 –> 01:16:29,206
That idea of uniting or

1222
01:16:29,228 –> 01:16:32,854
not justifying managerial existence is

1223
01:16:32,892 –> 01:16:37,462
the part of the biggest challenge of hybrid. And if you’ll note most

1224
01:16:37,516 –> 01:16:40,774
of the studies that are coming out about hybrid work, talk about

1225
01:16:40,892 –> 01:16:44,602
how hybrid impacts frontline workers and

1226
01:16:44,656 –> 01:16:46,330
impacts executives,

1227
01:16:47,710 –> 01:16:50,954
there’s very little conversation, at least I’m not aware of it,

1228
01:16:51,072 –> 01:16:55,690
about how hybrid impacts manager leader

1229
01:16:55,850 –> 01:16:59,194
competency and how it impacts manager

1230
01:16:59,242 –> 01:17:03,102
leader work. And the reason why is because most

1231
01:17:03,156 –> 01:17:07,022
managers and leaders justify their existence

1232
01:17:07,086 –> 01:17:09,010
in face to face interactions.

1233
01:17:10,310 –> 01:17:13,474
So very real version of this

1234
01:17:13,512 –> 01:17:17,234
happened in my community, right? So a guy who really likes my

1235
01:17:17,272 –> 01:17:20,482
stuff is working at an organization, and they’re doing

1236
01:17:20,536 –> 01:17:23,798
very much a volume plate of their sales, and everyone gets a proposal. There is

1237
01:17:23,804 –> 01:17:28,306
no DQing or qualification structure in place. And he’s

1238
01:17:28,338 –> 01:17:30,918
struggling with some of that because he wants to be consultative. He wants to be

1239
01:17:30,924 –> 01:17:35,114
a sherpa, which is our methodology. And he

1240
01:17:35,152 –> 01:17:38,858
reached out to his boss’s, boss around something because he knew his

1241
01:17:38,864 –> 01:17:42,154
boss was in a meeting and he was looking for a quick thing.

1242
01:17:42,272 –> 01:17:46,574
And so then he screenshots the interaction between his

1243
01:17:46,612 –> 01:17:48,990
boss, right? And he goes, out of curiosity,

1244
01:17:49,970 –> 01:17:52,906
why did you ask I think the guy’s name is Dan.

1245
01:17:53,018 –> 01:17:56,974
Why did you ask Dan about this? And the guy in my community goes,

1246
01:17:57,012 –> 01:17:59,778
well, because I thought you were on a call, and I thought he might have

1247
01:17:59,784 –> 01:18:03,314
the information. And then he goes, okay, being that

1248
01:18:03,352 –> 01:18:06,558
I am your direct manager,

1249
01:18:06,654 –> 01:18:09,400
this stuff all needs to come to me in the future.

1250
01:18:12,010 –> 01:18:15,526
And he goes, okay, no offense intended, right?

1251
01:18:15,628 –> 01:18:19,302
And he comes into the community and he’s like, can you believe this?

1252
01:18:19,356 –> 01:18:21,160
And I was like, Hold on a second.

1253
01:18:22,170 –> 01:18:25,786
Let’s practice a little bit of empathy here. Let’s pretend that

1254
01:18:25,808 –> 01:18:29,334
you’re that manager and you get a ding from your boss,

1255
01:18:29,462 –> 01:18:33,210
hey, why is your guy messaging me about this? This is your job.

1256
01:18:33,280 –> 01:18:36,358
You need to fix it. Now, I’m a big fan of chain

1257
01:18:36,374 –> 01:18:39,898
of command. I’m prior service, right? Like, it has its place. I’m a big fan

1258
01:18:39,914 –> 01:18:44,286
of that stuff. Process matters. But he

1259
01:18:44,308 –> 01:18:47,314
just took it at the first glance. His hot take was,

1260
01:18:47,352 –> 01:18:50,482
can you believe this guy? I was like, man, hold on a second,

1261
01:18:50,536 –> 01:18:54,050
though. He could be getting

1262
01:18:54,200 –> 01:18:56,530
his attitude by his boss.

1263
01:18:57,030 –> 01:19:00,866
Or maybe he just feels that you’re not doing a

1264
01:19:00,888 –> 01:19:04,246
good job, that you should be a little bit more considerate and stuff

1265
01:19:04,268 –> 01:19:07,526
like that and go to him first because there’s a time and a place for

1266
01:19:07,548 –> 01:19:11,434
all of that stuff. I remember the first time I wanted

1267
01:19:11,472 –> 01:19:15,594
to tell a drill sergeant or a superior officer or even

1268
01:19:15,712 –> 01:19:19,546
an NCO no, because I had a problem with what

1269
01:19:19,568 –> 01:19:23,386
it was. And the lesson was you do it and

1270
01:19:23,408 –> 01:19:26,650
then you argue about it later. But right then in that moment,

1271
01:19:26,720 –> 01:19:30,206
you take the orders that you’re given kind of situation. And I love the

1272
01:19:30,228 –> 01:19:33,374
whole I think it’s Eisenhower on his first day in office, right? He just gets

1273
01:19:33,412 –> 01:19:36,858
inaugurated and someone brings him a sealed envelope, and he’s like, Why are you bringing

1274
01:19:36,874 –> 01:19:39,060
me a sealed envelope? I have staff for this.

1275
01:19:40,390 –> 01:19:43,954
Put that in a slack message, you’re going to sound like the

1276
01:19:43,992 –> 01:19:48,802
worst person on the planet. Right? Because there’s no tonality included.

1277
01:19:48,946 –> 01:19:52,840
So it’s a very interesting situation because

1278
01:19:54,250 –> 01:19:58,166
I’m a big believer that leaders need to take that extra step

1279
01:19:58,348 –> 01:20:02,458
and provide some context, provide a little bit of

1280
01:20:02,624 –> 01:20:06,954
hey, here’s why kind of thing. Not because you

1281
01:20:06,992 –> 01:20:10,186
should have to explain and validate everything that you possibly should

1282
01:20:10,208 –> 01:20:13,434
have to do, but because it should be important enough that you’re not

1283
01:20:13,472 –> 01:20:16,986
misheard or misinterpreted or that you’re

1284
01:20:17,008 –> 01:20:19,966
being taken as just being a hard ass when you’re really just trying to make

1285
01:20:19,988 –> 01:20:23,774
sure that, hey, these are standards and we need to do it this way.

1286
01:20:23,892 –> 01:20:24,720
Kind of.

1287
01:20:29,110 –> 01:20:32,834
Well, Natopi will talk about this in our next little section here,

1288
01:20:32,952 –> 01:20:36,638
but there’s

1289
01:20:36,654 –> 01:20:39,960
so much loosey gooseiness in organizations, right,

1290
01:20:40,650 –> 01:20:44,034
mostly driven by politics and political considerations

1291
01:20:44,162 –> 01:20:47,542
yes, absolutely. That have little or nothing to do

1292
01:20:47,596 –> 01:20:51,158
with the actual work being done and have everything

1293
01:20:51,244 –> 01:20:54,950
to do with the maintenance of the edifice

1294
01:20:55,030 –> 01:20:57,850
around the work that’s supposed to be getting done,

1295
01:20:58,000 –> 01:21:01,786
which is work in and of itself. Don’t get me wrong, the politics is work,

1296
01:21:01,968 –> 01:21:05,230
but it’s not the work that we

1297
01:21:05,300 –> 01:21:09,402
ever Transparently tell the frontline employee

1298
01:21:09,546 –> 01:21:13,200
or transparently tell the manager that they are doing.

1299
01:21:13,890 –> 01:21:17,474
And I would have thought in

1300
01:21:17,512 –> 01:21:21,582
my younger years that that transparency

1301
01:21:21,646 –> 01:21:26,100
would have already arrived in the year of our Lord 2023.

1302
01:21:26,630 –> 01:21:30,566
Apparently not. Apparently we have not arrived at

1303
01:21:30,588 –> 01:21:34,006
a spot where we can all be transparent and talk about what the real thing

1304
01:21:34,028 –> 01:21:38,354
is that’s happening here. And it’s

1305
01:21:38,402 –> 01:21:42,238
why shows like The Office are still referenced

1306
01:21:42,434 –> 01:21:45,898
usually by people younger than me. It’s why

1307
01:21:46,064 –> 01:21:49,562
I think that Office Space is a much better movie than The Office

1308
01:21:49,616 –> 01:21:53,558
ever was a television show. But that’s the

1309
01:21:53,584 –> 01:21:56,826
thing altogether. But my point is, those kinds

1310
01:21:56,858 –> 01:22:00,442
of things exist because those kinds of parodies exist

1311
01:22:00,506 –> 01:22:04,560
because we can’t talk about the bald reality of what’s happening

1312
01:22:05,350 –> 01:22:08,740
at a leadership level, much less a structural level.

1313
01:22:09,110 –> 01:22:14,066
And I wonder how long it’s going to take for

1314
01:22:14,088 –> 01:22:17,554
us to be able to sort of have that

1315
01:22:17,592 –> 01:22:20,886
conversation. This is the thing that’s really and the conversation is

1316
01:22:20,908 –> 01:22:23,480
really this is the thing that’s really happening here.

1317
01:22:25,610 –> 01:22:29,046
And here’s where you fit into the thing that’s really happening here. So when

1318
01:22:29,068 –> 01:22:32,346
Eisenhower said that Eisenhower was operating out of

1319
01:22:32,368 –> 01:22:35,674
a spot where he didn’t have to tell that person who

1320
01:22:35,712 –> 01:22:39,258
delivered him the letter what the thing was that was happening, that person

1321
01:22:39,344 –> 01:22:43,194
already knew, because that person was part

1322
01:22:43,232 –> 01:22:46,894
of a cultural milieu that already reinforced that we

1323
01:22:46,932 –> 01:22:51,022
don’t live in that cultural milieu anymore. We live in an atomized cultural milieu where

1324
01:22:51,076 –> 01:22:54,560
no one knows what the deal is,

1325
01:22:55,250 –> 01:22:59,266
the same way they don’t know who their mayor is. The same

1326
01:22:59,288 –> 01:23:03,010
way they don’t know who their governor is. The same way they don’t know who

1327
01:23:03,080 –> 01:23:06,354
the president is. Let’s turn

1328
01:23:06,392 –> 01:23:09,770
the corner here a little bit. Let’s get onto

1329
01:23:09,790 –> 01:23:14,694
the third beat back to way

1330
01:23:14,732 –> 01:23:18,086
of the Samurai, back to in

1331
01:23:18,108 –> 01:23:21,980
his own toby, I’m going to pick up a couple of pages here

1332
01:23:23,390 –> 01:23:25,674
and we’re going to read a little bit about,

1333
01:23:25,872 –> 01:23:29,370
well, a loose business morality.

1334
01:23:30,830 –> 01:23:35,310
A loose business morality has indeed been the worst blot on our national reputation.

1335
01:23:35,890 –> 01:23:39,454
But before abusing it or hastily condemning the whole race for it,

1336
01:23:39,492 –> 01:23:43,054
let us calmly study it, and we shall be rewarded with consolation for

1337
01:23:43,092 –> 01:23:46,334
the future. Of all the great occupations of life,

1338
01:23:46,372 –> 01:23:49,838
none was farther removed from the profession of arms than commerce.

1339
01:23:50,014 –> 01:23:53,102
The merchant was placed lowest in the category of vocations,

1340
01:23:53,166 –> 01:23:57,086
the knight, the tiller of the soil, the mechanic, the merchant. The samurai

1341
01:23:57,118 –> 01:24:00,294
derived his income from land and could even indulge, if he had a mind to,

1342
01:24:00,332 –> 01:24:04,310
in amateur farming. But the counter and abacus were abhorred.

1343
01:24:04,890 –> 01:24:08,950
We know the wisdom of the social arrangement. Montanescu has

1344
01:24:09,020 –> 01:24:12,466
made it clear that the debarring of the nobility from mercantile pursuits

1345
01:24:12,498 –> 01:24:16,054
was an admirable social policy and that it prevented wealth from accumulating

1346
01:24:16,102 –> 01:24:19,258
in the hands of the powerful. The separation of

1347
01:24:19,264 –> 01:24:23,770
power and riches kept the distribution of the latter more nearly equitable.

1348
01:24:24,110 –> 01:24:28,042
Professor Dill, the author of Roman Society in the last century of the Western Empire,

1349
01:24:28,186 –> 01:24:31,626
has brought afresh to our mind that one cause of the decadence

1350
01:24:31,658 –> 01:24:35,178
of the Roman Empire was the permission given to the nobility to engage in trade

1351
01:24:35,274 –> 01:24:39,422
and the consequent monopoly of wealth and power by a minority of the senatorial

1352
01:24:39,486 –> 01:24:43,118
families. Commerce, therefore, in feudal

1353
01:24:43,134 –> 01:24:46,286
Japan, did not reach that degree of development which it would have attained under freer

1354
01:24:46,318 –> 01:24:49,618
conditions. The obloquy attached to the calling

1355
01:24:49,704 –> 01:24:53,062
naturally brought within its pale, such as cared little

1356
01:24:53,116 –> 01:24:56,274
for social repute. Call one a thief and he will steal.

1357
01:24:56,322 –> 01:24:59,590
Put a stigma on a calling, and its followers adjust their morals to it.

1358
01:24:59,660 –> 01:25:03,318
For it is natural that the quote unquote normal conscience, as Hugh

1359
01:25:03,334 –> 01:25:06,694
Black says, quote rises to the demands made on it and easily

1360
01:25:06,742 –> 01:25:10,218
falls to the limits of the standard expected from it,

1361
01:25:10,384 –> 01:25:13,898
and is unnecessary to add that no business, commercial or

1362
01:25:13,904 –> 01:25:16,990
otherwise, can be transacted without a code of morals.

1363
01:25:17,330 –> 01:25:21,134
Our merchants of the feudal period had one among themselves without which

1364
01:25:21,172 –> 01:25:25,162
they could never have developed, as they did in embryos, such fundamental mercantile

1365
01:25:25,226 –> 01:25:28,686
institutions as the Guild, the bank, the Boers, insurance checks,

1366
01:25:28,718 –> 01:25:32,354
bills of exchange, et cetera. But in their

1367
01:25:32,392 –> 01:25:35,506
relations with people outside their vocation, the tradesmen lived too true to

1368
01:25:35,528 –> 01:25:38,180
the reputation of their order.

1369
01:25:39,350 –> 01:25:42,326
This being the case, when the country was open to foreign trade, only the most

1370
01:25:42,348 –> 01:25:46,194
adventurous and unscrupulous rushed to the ports, while the respectable business houses

1371
01:25:46,242 –> 01:25:49,446
declined. For some time the repeated requests of the authorities to

1372
01:25:49,468 –> 01:25:52,626
establish branch houses was Bushido powerless

1373
01:25:52,658 –> 01:25:56,540
to stay the current of commercial dishonor? Let us see.

1374
01:25:57,310 –> 01:26:00,234
Those who are well acquainted with our history will remember that only a few years

1375
01:26:00,272 –> 01:26:03,846
after our treaty ports were open to foreign trade, feudalism was abolished,

1376
01:26:03,878 –> 01:26:07,726
and when with it the samurai’s thiefs were taken and bonds issued to

1377
01:26:07,748 –> 01:26:12,042
them in compensation, they were given liberty to invest them in mercantile transactions.

1378
01:26:12,186 –> 01:26:15,678
Now you may ask, why could they not bring their much bolstered veracity into their

1379
01:26:15,764 –> 01:26:19,410
new business relations and so reform the old abuses?

1380
01:26:20,070 –> 01:26:23,026
Those who had eyes to see could not weep enough.

1381
01:26:23,128 –> 01:26:26,626
Those who had hearts to feel could not sympathize enough with the

1382
01:26:26,648 –> 01:26:30,994
fate of many a noble and honest samurai who signally and irrevocably

1383
01:26:31,042 –> 01:26:34,754
failed at his new and unfamiliar field of trade and industry through sheer

1384
01:26:34,802 –> 01:26:38,450
lack of shrewdness and coping with his artful plebeian

1385
01:26:38,530 –> 01:26:41,974
rival. When we know that 80% of the business

1386
01:26:42,012 –> 01:26:45,574
houses fail in so industrial a country as America,

1387
01:26:45,702 –> 01:26:49,206
is it any wonder that scarcely one among a hundred samurai who went into trade

1388
01:26:49,238 –> 01:26:52,954
could succeed in his new vocation? It will be long before

1389
01:26:52,992 –> 01:26:56,586
it will be recognized how many fortunes are wrecked in the attempt to apply Bushido

1390
01:26:56,618 –> 01:26:59,886
ethics to business models. But it was soon patent to

1391
01:26:59,908 –> 01:27:03,006
every observing mind that the ways of wealth were not the ways of

1392
01:27:03,028 –> 01:27:06,798
honor. In what respects were they different? Of the

1393
01:27:06,804 –> 01:27:10,258
three incentives to veracity that Leckey enumerates visa vis the

1394
01:27:10,264 –> 01:27:14,046
industrial, the political and the philosophical, the first was altogether lacking

1395
01:27:14,078 –> 01:27:17,486
in Bushido. As to the second, it could develop little in a political

1396
01:27:17,518 –> 01:27:20,854
community under a feudal system. It is in its philosophical and,

1397
01:27:20,892 –> 01:27:24,386
as Leki says, in its highest aspect, that honesty attained elevated rank

1398
01:27:24,418 –> 01:27:25,990
in our catalog of virtues.

1399
01:27:27,290 –> 01:27:30,998
With all my sincere regard for the high commercial integrity of the

1400
01:27:31,084 –> 01:27:34,406
Anglo Saxon race, when I ask for the ultimate ground,

1401
01:27:34,438 –> 01:27:38,150
I am told that honesty is the best policy that it pays

1402
01:27:38,230 –> 01:27:41,354
to be honest. Is not this virtue, then,

1403
01:27:41,392 –> 01:27:44,814
its own reward if it is followed because it brings in

1404
01:27:44,852 –> 01:27:49,470
more cash than falsehood? I’m afraid Bushido would rather indulge

1405
01:27:49,890 –> 01:27:51,150
in lies.

1406
01:27:54,130 –> 01:27:57,474
This is an interesting section, and the reason I picked it is

1407
01:27:57,512 –> 01:28:00,898
because john’s in sales, and I am in

1408
01:28:00,904 –> 01:28:04,642
the leadership management space, and we both have worked in

1409
01:28:04,696 –> 01:28:08,638
businesses and with businesses trying to get them to change processes and

1410
01:28:08,664 –> 01:28:11,080
procedures and, of course, change their people.

1411
01:28:12,330 –> 01:28:16,086
I’m also a big fan of ethics, and one of the

1412
01:28:16,108 –> 01:28:19,458
things that jumps out here is a loose business morality leads

1413
01:28:19,474 –> 01:28:21,990
to a loose leadership morality.

1414
01:28:23,050 –> 01:28:26,314
It’s interesting how he talks about Bushido as a code of ethics. It doesn’t actually

1415
01:28:26,352 –> 01:28:29,610
match the history of Japan, and he ties a code of ethics to history,

1416
01:28:29,680 –> 01:28:33,222
and then he lays out the historical precedent in a very compact

1417
01:28:33,286 –> 01:28:37,274
way that I very rarely see writers do. One thing layers upon

1418
01:28:37,322 –> 01:28:40,640
another, and that’s what makes this writing great.

1419
01:28:42,210 –> 01:28:45,962
All great failings. And we can see this in our current failures

1420
01:28:46,026 –> 01:28:50,580
in the financial system in the year of our Lord 2023.

1421
01:28:51,670 –> 01:28:55,134
I’m looking at you. Silicon Valley Bank. And now First Republic

1422
01:28:55,182 –> 01:28:58,706
and Credit Suisse and whoever may come next.

1423
01:28:58,888 –> 01:29:02,866
All great failings begin with greater ethical and moral failings

1424
01:29:02,978 –> 01:29:06,306
first. I don’t really care about your virtue signaling.

1425
01:29:06,338 –> 01:29:10,278
I don’t really care about your ESG score. I care about what you’re actually doing.

1426
01:29:10,444 –> 01:29:13,690
I don’t care about your intentions. I care about your behavior.

1427
01:29:16,110 –> 01:29:19,322
However, systems tend to devolve to their lowest level when it no longer

1428
01:29:19,376 –> 01:29:22,846
pays to operate a process at the highest level, which is why the

1429
01:29:22,868 –> 01:29:26,974
small things like politeness matter and

1430
01:29:27,012 –> 01:29:30,794
committing to the highest level of morality while others are not is the highest

1431
01:29:30,842 –> 01:29:34,682
form of leadership discipline. Do so consistently leads

1432
01:29:34,746 –> 01:29:37,170
not only to honor, but also to respect.

1433
01:29:38,790 –> 01:29:42,242
But I’m not quite sure anymore in our society and culture in

1434
01:29:42,296 –> 01:29:46,002
the year of our Lord 2023 if honor and

1435
01:29:46,056 –> 01:29:47,970
respect pays.

1436
01:29:50,490 –> 01:29:53,874
Which leads me to my question for John, right. How can leaders

1437
01:29:53,922 –> 01:29:57,314
develop and maintain a strong leadership

1438
01:29:57,362 –> 01:30:00,730
morality in the face of unethical behavior

1439
01:30:02,270 –> 01:30:06,282
or frame it another way. When everyone else around you is getting paid for doing

1440
01:30:06,336 –> 01:30:09,674
wrong, why does it pay to continue to do

1441
01:30:09,712 –> 01:30:10,300
right?

1442
01:30:12,770 –> 01:30:16,320
So I highlighted a lot in this chapter because

1443
01:30:17,890 –> 01:30:21,294
we did the Book of the Five Rings. And then in addition to that,

1444
01:30:21,332 –> 01:30:25,786
I was also reading the Musashi epic,

1445
01:30:25,898 –> 01:30:29,838
like the Gone with the Wind version and everything, and it talks about how

1446
01:30:29,924 –> 01:30:32,978
the samurais are paid in rice and land

1447
01:30:33,064 –> 01:30:35,586
and stuff like that. And I was just kind of like, oh, okay, what an

1448
01:30:35,608 –> 01:30:39,030
interesting form of commerce. And then I’m reading this, and it’s talking about

1449
01:30:39,100 –> 01:30:43,270
how intentional they were around keeping

1450
01:30:44,090 –> 01:30:47,286
these things separate, right? If you’re a samurai, you’re not

1451
01:30:47,308 –> 01:30:50,962
a merchant, and the abacus is to be abhorred.

1452
01:30:51,026 –> 01:30:55,062
Right? Like, what a strong statement.

1453
01:30:55,206 –> 01:30:58,426
And then I love this thing. Those who had eyes

1454
01:30:58,528 –> 01:31:01,974
to see could not weep enough. Those who had hearts to feel could not sympathize

1455
01:31:02,022 –> 01:31:05,374
enough. And with the fate of many a noble and honest samurai who

1456
01:31:05,412 –> 01:31:09,166
signally and irrevocably failed in his new and unfamiliar field of

1457
01:31:09,188 –> 01:31:10,350
trade and industry,

1458
01:31:13,330 –> 01:31:17,262
what a unique situation to be going through that everyone

1459
01:31:17,316 –> 01:31:20,626
is excited about opening up and making these changes in the future of

1460
01:31:20,648 –> 01:31:24,194
our great country and everything. And you have this segment who

1461
01:31:24,312 –> 01:31:27,426
is probably sounding very much like the get off my lawn kind

1462
01:31:27,448 –> 01:31:31,334
of people whenever any new change is coming about, and just stay

1463
01:31:31,372 –> 01:31:34,886
the course, stay your lane and everything else that happens. And they

1464
01:31:34,908 –> 01:31:38,162
weren’t hurt. Right? Which is a very interesting thing because I’m a big fan

1465
01:31:38,226 –> 01:31:42,306
of change that I see valuable and I’m remarkably rigid

1466
01:31:42,338 –> 01:31:45,820
around change that I don’t see as something I should be doing.

1467
01:31:46,990 –> 01:31:50,630
But I love this that if you’re only being honest because it pays

1468
01:31:50,710 –> 01:31:53,406
because someone told you that it was the right thing to do to get the

1469
01:31:53,428 –> 01:31:57,550
business, you’re not being honest.

1470
01:31:57,700 –> 01:32:01,066
Right. And I struggle

1471
01:32:01,178 –> 01:32:04,846
with this idea because as a big networker and I’m out meeting people and

1472
01:32:04,868 –> 01:32:08,434
stuff and I’m hearing their stories and I’m constantly trying to figure out, is this

1473
01:32:08,472 –> 01:32:11,874
a fabrication? Is this really it? Is there more

1474
01:32:11,912 –> 01:32:15,506
substance to this? Are you just putting on a facade? Because if

1475
01:32:15,528 –> 01:32:18,962
I’m out there networking, one of the hardest things for me to do

1476
01:32:19,016 –> 01:32:23,080
is to make sure that I’m working with someone and there’s good alignment because

1477
01:32:23,530 –> 01:32:26,486
people always tell me, John, I’m not a salesperson. That’s what you do. But I

1478
01:32:26,508 –> 01:32:29,814
close deals. Why are you bragging about the outcome when you don’t want to write

1479
01:32:29,852 –> 01:32:33,466
a label? That drives me crazy, first of all, and you’re probably not closing that

1480
01:32:33,488 –> 01:32:36,458
many deals because if you were good, you wouldn’t be here talking about it.

1481
01:32:36,624 –> 01:32:41,126
Let’s just put that there. But we’re

1482
01:32:41,158 –> 01:32:46,038
both entrepreneurs. We both run businesses. So how

1483
01:32:46,064 –> 01:32:49,262
much have you had to learn along the way to do this

1484
01:32:49,316 –> 01:32:52,650
well and stay afloat? And how many pockets of random

1485
01:32:52,730 –> 01:32:56,206
crap have you had to go learn and figure out because it

1486
01:32:56,228 –> 01:32:59,538
wasn’t part of your normal track when you were able to

1487
01:32:59,544 –> 01:33:03,506
just stay in this one little lane and stuff. I have had call

1488
01:33:03,528 –> 01:33:07,058
it ego, but I honestly thought it was going to be just

1489
01:33:07,144 –> 01:33:09,926
hockey stick growth and easy and I wasn’t going to have any concerns and it

1490
01:33:09,948 –> 01:33:12,822
was just going to be like perfect. No,

1491
01:33:12,956 –> 01:33:15,750
like taxes, payroll,

1492
01:33:16,650 –> 01:33:19,400
finance, these things matter, right?

1493
01:33:20,330 –> 01:33:23,894
I think of the line at the beginning of the poem,

1494
01:33:23,942 –> 01:33:27,386
the child roll into the dark tower came the poem that

1495
01:33:27,408 –> 01:33:31,500
undergirds Stephen King’s Dark Tower series, which I’m a gigantic fan of,

1496
01:33:32,110 –> 01:33:35,594
not appropriate for this podcast, but definitely a good piece

1497
01:33:35,632 –> 01:33:39,146
of good piece of fantasy literature. And the

1498
01:33:39,168 –> 01:33:42,620
first line of that poem is my first thought was, he lied in every word.

1499
01:33:42,990 –> 01:33:47,662
And that how I think of people when they talk about entrepreneurship.

1500
01:33:47,806 –> 01:33:51,266
You’re lying in every word or sales. You’re lying in every

1501
01:33:51,288 –> 01:33:55,700
word because there’s no possible way for you to tell me in sales,

1502
01:33:56,070 –> 01:33:59,446
all of the little, as the Joker would say,

1503
01:33:59,468 –> 01:34:02,550
in the dark night. All of the little moments,

1504
01:34:03,210 –> 01:34:05,720
you can’t describe them, right?

1505
01:34:07,130 –> 01:34:10,374
And I’ll frame it very practically. Like, for me, I just abandoned anxiety,

1506
01:34:10,422 –> 01:34:11,580
like, three years ago,

1507
01:34:15,310 –> 01:34:19,260
I abandoned anxiety about outcomes. I just said, no, that’s it, I’m done.

1508
01:34:19,790 –> 01:34:23,162
Now. Saying it intellectually and then going through the whole process

1509
01:34:23,216 –> 01:34:26,750
emotionally of actually letting all that anxiety about outcomes go was

1510
01:34:26,820 –> 01:34:29,758
it took me three years. It’s only been this year that I’ve been able to

1511
01:34:29,764 –> 01:34:34,862
go. I’m actually genuinely not anxious about that outcome and

1512
01:34:34,916 –> 01:34:36,990
actually mean that all the way down to the core.

1513
01:34:39,170 –> 01:34:41,938
Everyone talks about, like, fake it to you and make it stuff, right? When you’re

1514
01:34:41,944 –> 01:34:46,706
an entrepreneur and just you’re going to get there and everything. And I

1515
01:34:46,728 –> 01:34:49,318
think there’s a good version of that, and I think there’s the bad version of

1516
01:34:49,324 –> 01:34:53,766
that that most people adopt. But just

1517
01:34:53,788 –> 01:34:57,634
the purposefulness of keeping this fighting

1518
01:34:57,682 –> 01:35:02,866
class separate from all commerce fascinated

1519
01:35:02,898 –> 01:35:06,666
me, right? Because I think about my kung fu friends and the people who

1520
01:35:06,688 –> 01:35:10,282
I know who are really great teachers, not a single one of them has got

1521
01:35:10,336 –> 01:35:14,202
any kind of real business acumen, right? And they don’t want it,

1522
01:35:14,256 –> 01:35:17,742
right? They just want to teach their art. They just want a

1523
01:35:17,796 –> 01:35:21,354
great school of students who are willing to put in the work and take action

1524
01:35:21,402 –> 01:35:24,878
and improve. But how do you get there? You got to

1525
01:35:24,884 –> 01:35:27,306
go out, you got to do the marketing thing. You got to do the sales

1526
01:35:27,348 –> 01:35:30,834
thing. You got to be able to talk in a way that gets people

1527
01:35:30,872 –> 01:35:32,660
excited about the thing that you’re doing.

1528
01:35:35,110 –> 01:35:38,606
It’s hilarious to me because I’m on LinkedIn a lot. I post on LinkedIn

1529
01:35:38,638 –> 01:35:42,358
a lot. I’ve got a big network on there. And occasionally me and

1530
01:35:42,364 –> 01:35:45,958
another sales nerd, someone else who’s attached to revenue and growing sales and everything,

1531
01:35:46,044 –> 01:35:49,974
will get into a really great back and forth about all the psychology that

1532
01:35:50,012 –> 01:35:53,646
happens in a sales conversation, how to do it the right way. And then inevitably,

1533
01:35:53,698 –> 01:35:57,354
some founder will come along and be like, isn’t it just about being honest and

1534
01:35:57,392 –> 01:36:00,106
having straight conversations? If that was what it was,

1535
01:36:00,208 –> 01:36:03,034
you wouldn’t have a sales team, right?

1536
01:36:03,152 –> 01:36:05,914
You wouldn’t need a sales team. You wouldn’t be looking for one. We wouldn’t have

1537
01:36:05,952 –> 01:36:09,294
owners putting themselves in terrible spots to get out of the sales

1538
01:36:09,332 –> 01:36:12,702
seat because they think that they’re not enough, because they don’t have it.

1539
01:36:12,756 –> 01:36:16,254
And they need someone who’s got this innate skill that they don’t possess or talent

1540
01:36:16,302 –> 01:36:19,922
that they don’t possess that they can come in and flip complete

1541
01:36:19,976 –> 01:36:22,994
no’s to complete yeses. What an absurd idea.

1542
01:36:23,192 –> 01:36:23,940
Well,

1543
01:36:27,530 –> 01:36:32,038
it’s the idea that well,

1544
01:36:32,124 –> 01:36:36,422
I’ll frame it this way. We’ve all been selling since

1545
01:36:36,476 –> 01:36:40,890
we were born. Agreed. Babies sell

1546
01:36:41,040 –> 01:36:44,602
to their moms. They just do.

1547
01:36:44,656 –> 01:36:48,214
Otherwise they’re not going to eat. Moms sell to the babies.

1548
01:36:48,262 –> 01:36:52,060
Now, it operates at a much more biological level than

1549
01:36:52,990 –> 01:36:56,366
maybe an aesthetic level, but as you get

1550
01:36:56,388 –> 01:37:00,126
older, it moves up the ladder of hierarchy to more of

1551
01:37:00,148 –> 01:37:03,950
an aesthetic level. Right. But we’re all selling.

1552
01:37:04,930 –> 01:37:09,294
My six year old boy just, like, ran in here before

1553
01:37:09,332 –> 01:37:12,702
we started recording today, and he was, like, doing a whole dance

1554
01:37:12,766 –> 01:37:15,506
because he’s trying to sell me on, like, wrestling with him after we get done

1555
01:37:15,528 –> 01:37:18,786
with talking today. Like, he’s trying to sell me. He’s trying to make a sale.

1556
01:37:18,898 –> 01:37:23,106
He’s selling all the time. Just like I teach negotiation

1557
01:37:23,298 –> 01:37:26,774
the great line from the Devil’s advocate. Are we negotiating? The answer

1558
01:37:26,812 –> 01:37:29,766
is yes. We’re always negotiating. Always.

1559
01:37:29,868 –> 01:37:33,370
Yeah. I’m negotiating with you. You’re negotiating with me. We’re negotiating with

1560
01:37:33,440 –> 01:37:37,706
the people who are listening to this podcast. We’re negotiating in

1561
01:37:37,728 –> 01:37:41,254
a larger game across time this is Basic game theory or negotiating

1562
01:37:41,302 –> 01:37:45,006
a larger game across time for a year, two years,

1563
01:37:45,108 –> 01:37:48,506
five years, ten years from now, however long this podcast episode

1564
01:37:48,538 –> 01:37:52,062
is out on the Internet. Infinity. We’re playing a game

1565
01:37:52,116 –> 01:37:55,962
across Infinity that’s really scary

1566
01:37:56,026 –> 01:37:59,586
for people to think about. And so they have to

1567
01:37:59,608 –> 01:38:03,358
reduce it down to its smallest parts to be able to contextually

1568
01:38:03,454 –> 01:38:07,122
manage it. And then you have people who and it’s interesting

1569
01:38:07,176 –> 01:38:10,662
to me how he talks about how Bushido would rather

1570
01:38:10,716 –> 01:38:13,874
indulge in lies. Yeah. Was a concept

1571
01:38:13,922 –> 01:38:20,518
that was injected into Japanese business management in the

1572
01:38:20,684 –> 01:38:24,326
Japan’s economy. Collapsed in the Japan’s birth

1573
01:38:24,358 –> 01:38:28,474
rate, collapsed in the japan is the ultimate example.

1574
01:38:28,672 –> 01:38:33,406
South Korea is the other one of the post post post

1575
01:38:33,508 –> 01:38:37,754
industrial society. A society where replacement

1576
01:38:37,802 –> 01:38:41,326
rates are so far into water they can’t even see the

1577
01:38:41,348 –> 01:38:44,766
top of the water, where you have robots who take

1578
01:38:44,788 –> 01:38:47,650
care of the elderly because there just aren’t enough people to do it.

1579
01:38:47,800 –> 01:38:51,762
And your society is demographically, at a people level,

1580
01:38:51,816 –> 01:38:53,090
dying on the vine.

1581
01:38:55,190 –> 01:38:57,970
There’s a biblical admonition in the west,

1582
01:38:58,650 –> 01:39:01,670
in the Ten Commandments. It says, Thou shalt not lie.

1583
01:39:02,410 –> 01:39:06,326
Because lying is fundamental to well,

1584
01:39:06,348 –> 01:39:08,950
no, not fundamental. Telling the truth,

1585
01:39:09,370 –> 01:39:13,366
as far as it is on you to tell the truth is fundamental

1586
01:39:13,398 –> 01:39:17,130
to the shaping of reality. And so at scale,

1587
01:39:18,030 –> 01:39:21,706
we tell ourselves lies all the time. And so it doesn’t surprise me

1588
01:39:21,728 –> 01:39:24,518
that people are lying to themselves about sales. It doesn’t surprise you who are lying

1589
01:39:24,534 –> 01:39:28,046
to themselves about leadership. Doesn’t surprise you. People lying to themselves about Bushido. None of

1590
01:39:28,068 –> 01:39:36,426
this shocks me because we

1591
01:39:36,468 –> 01:39:40,066
build systems around things that seem to be easy, but we

1592
01:39:40,088 –> 01:39:43,874
don’t understand we actually really don’t understand scale as human beings. We really

1593
01:39:43,912 –> 01:39:46,820
don’t agree with that.

1594
01:39:48,230 –> 01:39:51,480
If I see you living in your family in a particular way,

1595
01:39:52,890 –> 01:39:56,614
it impacts my family. But how much it impacts my

1596
01:39:56,652 –> 01:40:00,006
family has to be socially negotiated between the two

1597
01:40:00,028 –> 01:40:03,546
of us. If I try to scale up the way I raise my

1598
01:40:03,568 –> 01:40:07,850
family to the nation state level, then I’m an authoritarian.

1599
01:40:08,910 –> 01:40:12,138
I just am. Just like you. You’re an authoritarian. You’re going to

1600
01:40:12,144 –> 01:40:17,226
make authoritarian decisions, and then there’s going to be resistance and

1601
01:40:17,248 –> 01:40:20,826
it’s not going to work. Just like in sales. Sales is a microcosm

1602
01:40:20,858 –> 01:40:24,110
of the nation state. If you try to just say, everybody do sales this way,

1603
01:40:24,180 –> 01:40:27,540
which by the way, there are sales trainers that say this. Oh, I know.

1604
01:40:28,230 –> 01:40:29,940
Very familiar with those.

1605
01:40:33,270 –> 01:40:37,298
Probably the

1606
01:40:37,304 –> 01:40:40,418
most damaging sort of sales myth,

1607
01:40:40,514 –> 01:40:43,270
which again is a totalitarian myth,

1608
01:40:43,930 –> 01:40:48,054
is in Glengarry Glenn Ross always be

1609
01:40:48,092 –> 01:40:51,986
closing Alec Baldwin. Talk about the Glengary leads,

1610
01:40:52,018 –> 01:40:55,734
right? Yeah. And you laugh, but how much of that totalitarianism

1611
01:40:55,782 –> 01:40:59,706
are you fighting all the time? Well, so I have a lot

1612
01:40:59,728 –> 01:41:03,466
to say on this topic. Obviously talking about

1613
01:41:03,568 –> 01:41:07,214
metaphors and trying to force Bushido into a business

1614
01:41:07,252 –> 01:41:10,462
management tool and stuff. My number one

1615
01:41:10,516 –> 01:41:13,806
pet peeve is whenever someone gets a little bit of

1616
01:41:13,828 –> 01:41:17,342
sales craft knowledge, they really understand the psychology of what’s happening

1617
01:41:17,396 –> 01:41:20,258
in the conversation. And the first thing they want to do is they want to

1618
01:41:20,264 –> 01:41:23,730
use a martial arts metaphor, but they’ve never trained in martial arts.

1619
01:41:24,550 –> 01:41:27,746
Oh, man, nothing gets my goat more than

1620
01:41:27,768 –> 01:41:31,106
when I’m scrolling on LinkedIn and some person who’s never worn

1621
01:41:31,138 –> 01:41:34,566
a gee, never stepped on a mat, never put hands with anybody

1622
01:41:34,668 –> 01:41:37,800
ever. Ever is like, oh,

1623
01:41:38,330 –> 01:41:40,950
I teach verbal akido.

1624
01:41:41,370 –> 01:41:44,566
Have you ever been thrown? Have you ever gone through the

1625
01:41:44,588 –> 01:41:48,042
process? Have you ever tried to throw someone else? Because yeah,

1626
01:41:48,096 –> 01:41:50,826
there is a bunch of back and forth, right? And there is a way to

1627
01:41:50,848 –> 01:41:54,186
kind of talk people out of things and stuff like that. But you shouldn’t be

1628
01:41:54,208 –> 01:41:57,278
doing that to talk people into moving into your project because guess what? They’re going

1629
01:41:57,284 –> 01:42:00,974
to churn. They’re going to churn so bad and so

1630
01:42:01,012 –> 01:42:04,622
quickly when you don’t hit those expectations. And I remember

1631
01:42:04,676 –> 01:42:08,170
when I was learning all this stuff right around negative psychology

1632
01:42:08,250 –> 01:42:11,202
and how to do takeaways and how to do all these tactics and everything,

1633
01:42:11,256 –> 01:42:14,274
and I did the same thing, but I thought

1634
01:42:14,312 –> 01:42:16,978
that that was all I needed. I didn’t need anything else and it was going

1635
01:42:16,984 –> 01:42:20,454
to be okay. Well, it’s the same people who use

1636
01:42:20,492 –> 01:42:23,522
combat metaphors in leadership.

1637
01:42:23,666 –> 01:42:27,462
We talked about this back in November when we read about

1638
01:42:27,516 –> 01:42:31,318
Face and when we read Lords of Arabia

1639
01:42:31,414 –> 01:42:35,894
and we read The Civil War memoirs of William

1640
01:42:35,942 –> 01:42:39,686
Tacumsa Sherman. And my personal favorite,

1641
01:42:39,718 –> 01:42:43,286
Civil War general Ulysses S. Grant. Who names

1642
01:42:43,318 –> 01:42:47,166
their kid Ulysses? I love that. A buddy of mine has

1643
01:42:47,188 –> 01:42:50,960
got a little boy named Ulysses. And I was like, man, what a great name.

1644
01:42:51,810 –> 01:42:55,066
It’s like a family tradition to have the boys named after you names,

1645
01:42:55,098 –> 01:42:57,442
right? And I was like, well, you’re going to run out of those pretty quickly

1646
01:42:57,496 –> 01:42:58,900
because I don’t know that many.

1647
01:43:00,870 –> 01:43:02,260
There’s not that many.

1648
01:43:04,230 –> 01:43:07,826
But one of the ideas that we explored there with my guests and with

1649
01:43:07,848 –> 01:43:11,378
my co hosts in those books was this idea that no one who’s

1650
01:43:11,394 –> 01:43:13,960
actually been through war uses a war metaphor to lead anybody.

1651
01:43:14,650 –> 01:43:18,914
Whenever Brady came out recently, and said that stupid moronic

1652
01:43:18,962 –> 01:43:22,422
thing about going to go play football is like being deployed.

1653
01:43:22,486 –> 01:43:23,100
Man,

1654
01:43:25,950 –> 01:43:29,914
you were dead to me with the whole ball deflating thing. I have no

1655
01:43:29,952 –> 01:43:33,322
respect. I don’t care that you walked it back, because I don’t actually believe

1656
01:43:33,376 –> 01:43:36,846
that. You don’t believe the statement you said. The first time his wife left him

1657
01:43:36,868 –> 01:43:40,480
for a jiu jitsu player. Not even like a good combat one,

1658
01:43:41,010 –> 01:43:44,398
but a good competitor one. Just like not a Brazilian MMA guy. Just like a

1659
01:43:44,404 –> 01:43:47,906
regular Jujitsu guy, a regular Jujitsu black book guy. He’s worried about

1660
01:43:47,928 –> 01:43:50,020
that he’s got going on.

1661
01:43:51,350 –> 01:43:54,180
He has no idea what just happened. Yeah,

1662
01:43:55,270 –> 01:43:59,122
there was a guy, he’s pretty well known in the sales space,

1663
01:43:59,176 –> 01:44:02,038
right? He does a bunch of technical sales and everything. And then a couple of

1664
01:44:02,044 –> 01:44:05,586
months back, he was like, so really good selling is like verbal akido.

1665
01:44:05,618 –> 01:44:08,870
And I was like, okay. And then

1666
01:44:08,940 –> 01:44:11,558
I did a little bit of research, a little bit of digging, because I’m like,

1667
01:44:11,564 –> 01:44:14,954
hey, I don’t want to be the asshole who just like,

1668
01:44:14,992 –> 01:44:18,406
well, I’m the martial arts sales coach, and if I’m doing it because it’s

1669
01:44:18,438 –> 01:44:22,346
wider than that, I do honestly believe that. And I do think that the

1670
01:44:22,368 –> 01:44:25,930
art that you train has an impact on how you think about the sales

1671
01:44:26,000 –> 01:44:29,566
metaphor and how all this stuff attaches. Right. I’m sure that if

1672
01:44:29,588 –> 01:44:33,514
we tried to equate your first art and the learnings and the philosophy

1673
01:44:33,562 –> 01:44:36,286
of that to my first art and the learnings and philosophy of that and how

1674
01:44:36,308 –> 01:44:38,880
that would impact how we would think about a sales function,

1675
01:44:39,890 –> 01:44:42,866
a lot of it would probably align, but there’s probably going to be some big

1676
01:44:42,888 –> 01:44:46,146
differences there. And that’s okay. So I’m not trying to say that

1677
01:44:46,168 –> 01:44:49,586
I’m the only person who’s allowed to compare and analyze

1678
01:44:49,618 –> 01:44:53,266
how martial arts is like sales. That’s not what I’m saying. If you’ve

1679
01:44:53,298 –> 01:44:58,326
not done it, though, don’t make

1680
01:44:58,348 –> 01:45:01,638
it your thing because you don’t even know what

1681
01:45:01,644 –> 01:45:05,002
you’re talking about, honestly. Right. It’s great that you saw a YouTube video

1682
01:45:05,056 –> 01:45:08,346
where someone was like, now watch me use their own strength against them.

1683
01:45:08,448 –> 01:45:12,154
But it’s different once you

1684
01:45:12,192 –> 01:45:15,878
experience it in the lightness of it. Right? Because what happens is everyone just overdoes.

1685
01:45:15,894 –> 01:45:18,846
It is really kind of what it boils down to. You know this, I know

1686
01:45:18,868 –> 01:45:22,254
this, but it’s just my number one

1687
01:45:22,292 –> 01:45:25,360
pet peeve, and I see every time I see it.

1688
01:45:27,170 –> 01:45:31,170
But every

1689
01:45:31,240 –> 01:45:34,386
martial art instructor I know doesn’t want to be

1690
01:45:34,408 –> 01:45:38,580
a salesperson. Right. So I’m kind of interested in

1691
01:45:40,390 –> 01:45:44,166
was that like a conscious decision to keep the samurai away from commerce, or was

1692
01:45:44,188 –> 01:45:47,366
it or were they just so focused on this one path that they were like

1693
01:45:47,468 –> 01:45:51,366
money? I’m focused on the sword kind of deal. So I

1694
01:45:51,388 –> 01:45:54,698
came out of maybe this will give me some insight into this. I’ll take a

1695
01:45:54,704 –> 01:45:57,898
couple of moments, address this a little bit from a different kind of

1696
01:45:57,904 –> 01:46:00,874
angle. So I came out of the fine arts area,

1697
01:46:00,992 –> 01:46:04,558
right? And when I came out of college, I had this

1698
01:46:04,644 –> 01:46:08,206
grand idea that I was going to go into fine arts management. That’s a

1699
01:46:08,228 –> 01:46:12,106
whole field of dealing with gallery

1700
01:46:12,138 –> 01:46:15,982
owners and curators and artists and acting as a middleman between

1701
01:46:16,036 –> 01:46:20,034
all of them, because, quite frankly, Pablo Picasso actually,

1702
01:46:20,072 –> 01:46:23,154
I won’t even use Picasso. He’s Picasso a lot. I won’t pick up Picasso today.

1703
01:46:23,272 –> 01:46:27,330
Salvador Daly doesn’t really want to talk to a gallery owner

1704
01:46:28,410 –> 01:46:31,574
at all. At all. He just wants to

1705
01:46:31,612 –> 01:46:35,778
go off and be Salvador Dolly. Right. Gerhard Richter

1706
01:46:35,954 –> 01:46:39,618
doesn’t really want to do a deal with a museum in Germany.

1707
01:46:39,794 –> 01:46:42,778
He just wants to go off and up and over the shark and put it

1708
01:46:42,784 –> 01:46:45,660
under glass or whatever he’s doing. Right. Or was doing.

1709
01:46:46,910 –> 01:46:50,586
Whoever it is that’s making art that you’ve never heard of in

1710
01:46:50,608 –> 01:46:54,490
some graphic design program in some state college

1711
01:46:54,640 –> 01:46:58,094
right now in four years or five

1712
01:46:58,132 –> 01:47:01,406
years or God help them, six to ten years when they get out.

1713
01:47:01,428 –> 01:47:05,006
Of that program. They don’t want to really go deal with a

1714
01:47:05,028 –> 01:47:08,366
gallery owner in some Podunk area to try to

1715
01:47:08,388 –> 01:47:11,458
sell three pieces of art at $2,500 apiece so they

1716
01:47:11,464 –> 01:47:14,578
can make their rent. They can continue to live in New York City, because New

1717
01:47:14,584 –> 01:47:17,010
York City is expensive if you’re an artist.

1718
01:47:17,510 –> 01:47:21,058
So arts management exists as sort of the middleman. It’s like

1719
01:47:21,064 –> 01:47:24,434
kind of like agents, right? Yeah. Just like music management.

1720
01:47:24,482 –> 01:47:27,826
Yeah. It’s the same thing, right? The same thing. Right. And the psychology of artists

1721
01:47:27,858 –> 01:47:32,154
is the same as the psychology of, I think, the psychology of

1722
01:47:32,272 –> 01:47:35,510
martial arts studio owners.

1723
01:47:35,590 –> 01:47:39,114
It’s the same kind of psychology. I agree. And they’re doing

1724
01:47:39,152 –> 01:47:43,002
their art. They care about their art. And all of these other things are

1725
01:47:43,056 –> 01:47:46,154
distractions from the thing they care about. And unfortunately,

1726
01:47:46,202 –> 01:47:49,310
what they don’t understand is and I’m kind of working through this, actually,

1727
01:47:49,460 –> 01:47:53,006
with the well, I’m kind of working through this with some

1728
01:47:53,028 –> 01:47:56,466
people locally without getting into too many

1729
01:47:56,488 –> 01:48:00,514
details about that. But the thing

1730
01:48:00,552 –> 01:48:03,940
that you have to tell them is that

1731
01:48:04,630 –> 01:48:08,066
if you don’t get the pieces in place, just like you would

1732
01:48:08,088 –> 01:48:10,578
tell an artist, if you don’t get the pieces in place, you’re not going to

1733
01:48:10,584 –> 01:48:14,098
be able to do more of your thing that you care about. You’re actually going

1734
01:48:14,104 –> 01:48:16,466
to wind up doing less because you’re going to wind up chasing all these other

1735
01:48:16,488 –> 01:48:19,714
things that you don’t have. Optimized to work perfectly or at least

1736
01:48:19,752 –> 01:48:23,178
to work better than what they would work

1737
01:48:23,344 –> 01:48:26,794
if you just either a didn’t do anything with them at all or b

1738
01:48:26,912 –> 01:48:29,818
were in them all the time and exhausted. And now you can’t go on the

1739
01:48:29,824 –> 01:48:33,126
mat right now, you can’t teach the akito,

1740
01:48:33,158 –> 01:48:36,886
or you can’t teach the form, or you can’t teach the kata,

1741
01:48:36,918 –> 01:48:40,430
or you can’t teach the kick. Right. Which is the thing you really care about.

1742
01:48:40,500 –> 01:48:43,898
And it’s interesting martial arts folks are kind of a weird combination of jock.

1743
01:48:43,994 –> 01:48:47,530
And you mentioned nerd. Jock and artists. I wouldn’t necessarily

1744
01:48:47,610 –> 01:48:51,198
say nerd, but jock and artists. So they’re creative and open, but they’re also highly

1745
01:48:51,214 –> 01:48:55,060
conscientious and duty driven. So all this psychology that comes together,

1746
01:48:55,430 –> 01:48:59,314
does that make for good business owners and entrepreneurs?

1747
01:48:59,442 –> 01:49:02,546
Sometimes, but they have to get aligned in the appropriate

1748
01:49:02,578 –> 01:49:06,646
direction, and if there’s no one around them to help them with

1749
01:49:06,668 –> 01:49:10,194
that alignment piece, then they struggle.

1750
01:49:10,242 –> 01:49:12,760
They struggle massively. Yeah.

1751
01:49:15,870 –> 01:49:19,226
I did a big project with, like, a music marketing group, and it was all

1752
01:49:19,248 –> 01:49:22,422
these people. I learned a lot about music marketing and why they all have agents.

1753
01:49:22,496 –> 01:49:25,920
And you don’t really want someone

1754
01:49:26,290 –> 01:49:30,160
who is in charge of the artful creative direction of this thing.

1755
01:49:30,690 –> 01:49:34,398
Also the person asking for money. Right. It’s kind

1756
01:49:34,404 –> 01:49:38,958
of a flawed situation, because otherwise let’s just put this in

1757
01:49:38,964 –> 01:49:41,186
the context that I think about it the most, right? If you’re out there to

1758
01:49:41,208 –> 01:49:44,466
make art, you’re hopefully making art for yourself because it

1759
01:49:44,488 –> 01:49:48,078
speaks to you. Right? Now, some people will say, well, you sold out because you’re

1760
01:49:48,094 –> 01:49:51,058
just making art that’s going to sell whatever. And I think there’s a time and

1761
01:49:51,064 –> 01:49:55,314
a place for that, because, once again, if you’re not bringing in revenue,

1762
01:49:55,362 –> 01:49:56,918
you’re going to have to go get a job, and you don’t get to be

1763
01:49:56,924 –> 01:50:00,562
an artist at all. Right? And one of my favorite

1764
01:50:00,626 –> 01:50:04,374
rappers, Logic, talks about how much easier his life is

1765
01:50:04,412 –> 01:50:07,546
now that he has a team. Right? So he has a manager. He’s got

1766
01:50:07,568 –> 01:50:10,458
people that can help with samples and clearances and all this stuff,

1767
01:50:10,544 –> 01:50:14,174
because it’s a lot to manage. There’s a reason why

1768
01:50:14,212 –> 01:50:17,790
this stuff is hard. My thing is

1769
01:50:17,940 –> 01:50:22,014
I love coaching those kinds of people because

1770
01:50:22,212 –> 01:50:25,278
I can show them that, hey,

1771
01:50:25,364 –> 01:50:28,494
no one is going to be able to sell this until you’re able to sell

1772
01:50:28,532 –> 01:50:32,260
it. Right. Until you can navigate these conversations. And the value

1773
01:50:32,710 –> 01:50:35,714
and how does this value match to the thing that you do? If you can

1774
01:50:35,752 –> 01:50:39,058
do that, you have to hire someone like me to come in and

1775
01:50:39,064 –> 01:50:42,562
do this because I always use this kind of very short story

1776
01:50:42,616 –> 01:50:46,146
about chefs and cooks, right? And once the restaurant

1777
01:50:46,178 –> 01:50:48,278
is up and running and everything, and you have the menu and you’ve got a

1778
01:50:48,284 –> 01:50:51,342
great following and everything cool, you just need to make sure you’ve got great cooks.

1779
01:50:51,426 –> 01:50:53,850
But if you’re opening a restaurant, you need a chef,

1780
01:50:54,990 –> 01:50:58,106
and the skill set is different. Right.

1781
01:50:58,288 –> 01:51:01,754
Has to be. Well, the people who figure that

1782
01:51:01,792 –> 01:51:05,046
out are the people like the Jerry Seinfelds or the Jay Z’s,

1783
01:51:05,238 –> 01:51:09,070
the names you know? Right. Andy Warhol’s. Right. Or even

1784
01:51:09,140 –> 01:51:12,986
I mean, we just mentioned Brady, who figured

1785
01:51:13,018 –> 01:51:16,414
out that the thing I do, if I want to do more

1786
01:51:16,452 –> 01:51:19,714
of that, I need structure around me to do more

1787
01:51:19,752 –> 01:51:23,282
of that. And the people who never get it are

1788
01:51:23,336 –> 01:51:26,366
still trying to sell out the Holiday Inn in Dubuque,

1789
01:51:26,398 –> 01:51:30,562
Iowa. And I wish it were easier

1790
01:51:30,626 –> 01:51:34,534
than that, and I wish the samurai had understood that. But again,

1791
01:51:34,652 –> 01:51:38,470
to his point, people confuse

1792
01:51:40,030 –> 01:51:42,890
shrewdness with good management,

1793
01:51:43,230 –> 01:51:46,826
and they confuse good management with shrewdness. That’s an old line from Harry lying from

1794
01:51:46,848 –> 01:51:50,140
the Third Man. And it’s true.

1795
01:51:50,830 –> 01:51:54,160
It’s absolutely the truth. And so

1796
01:51:55,730 –> 01:52:00,266
there’s just as much artistic integrity

1797
01:52:00,378 –> 01:52:04,998
in business as there is in the art of the samurai.

1798
01:52:05,194 –> 01:52:07,970
Agreed. If you do it correctly,

1799
01:52:09,110 –> 01:52:11,970
yeah. Very fair. Additional caveat,

1800
01:52:12,790 –> 01:52:16,494
my first business partner, he went to school at Parsons

1801
01:52:16,542 –> 01:52:20,046
in New York, right? Like, the big art school up there. And, man, he loves

1802
01:52:20,078 –> 01:52:22,006
art. And so we were hanging out one day, and I was like, hey,

1803
01:52:22,028 –> 01:52:25,446
man, why are you using the art stuff? You were

1804
01:52:25,468 –> 01:52:28,546
good at it. You really, really enjoyed it. Why aren’t you an artist?

1805
01:52:28,578 –> 01:52:31,350
And he’s like, Business is now my creative outlet.

1806
01:52:33,530 –> 01:52:37,018
That was really the first time I can point to a

1807
01:52:37,024 –> 01:52:40,678
handful of conversations with that business partner that just dramatically turned

1808
01:52:40,694 –> 01:52:43,942
my world upside down. Right. The first one was, Sales is like kung fu.

1809
01:52:44,006 –> 01:52:47,258
And I’m like, no, it’s not. Sales is just something I do because it pays

1810
01:52:47,274 –> 01:52:50,318
for kung fu. And he was like, doesn’t have to be that way in that.

1811
01:52:50,404 –> 01:52:52,240
Okay, cool. Now I want it.

1812
01:52:53,330 –> 01:52:56,766
But it’s those little bitty things. But I now

1813
01:52:56,788 –> 01:52:59,494
think about it the same way. Right. I’ve always kind of felt like I wasn’t

1814
01:52:59,562 –> 01:53:03,406
a really creative person because my grandmother was an artist, my brother’s a musician.

1815
01:53:03,438 –> 01:53:07,086
He can make music with anything. And I’m just like this guy who likes charts

1816
01:53:07,118 –> 01:53:10,818
and graphs and linear functions and everything else like this, but didn’t go to

1817
01:53:10,824 –> 01:53:13,880
school to be a developer. So I’m in this weird space. Well, now,

1818
01:53:14,650 –> 01:53:17,686
the ability to craft a story, the ability to write a book, the ability to

1819
01:53:17,708 –> 01:53:21,450
put out content that speaks to an audience and everything is a creative endeavor.

1820
01:53:21,950 –> 01:53:25,206
And if I had just kind of continued to not lean

1821
01:53:25,238 –> 01:53:29,654
into that, man, that would be brutal,

1822
01:53:29,702 –> 01:53:33,210
in my opinion. I wouldn’t be here as an entrepreneur. I wouldn’t be here,

1823
01:53:33,280 –> 01:53:37,070
having created a sales brand and written a sales book and everything, if I’m not

1824
01:53:37,140 –> 01:53:41,386
kind of clued into the idea that art has got many different directions

1825
01:53:41,498 –> 01:53:45,166
and most of them are okay as long as you can continue to keep

1826
01:53:45,188 –> 01:53:47,618
the bills paid and keep the lights on and do the things you need to

1827
01:53:47,624 –> 01:53:51,314
do. That’s right. And that’s basically what

1828
01:53:51,352 –> 01:53:54,446
Seth Godin says. We already referenced him earlier,

1829
01:53:54,558 –> 01:53:58,066
but one of the big principles that I always got from him was

1830
01:53:58,168 –> 01:54:01,986
you need to do enough during the day so that you can earn

1831
01:54:02,018 –> 01:54:04,470
enough money to continue to play the game tomorrow.

1832
01:54:04,810 –> 01:54:08,886
And if you just keep doing that, then you win.

1833
01:54:09,068 –> 01:54:12,946
That’s the win. Right? And the win is not I’m

1834
01:54:12,978 –> 01:54:15,258
going to come with this great idea on a napkin. Someone’s going to give me

1835
01:54:15,264 –> 01:54:18,540
a million dollars, and I’m going to be Jeff Bezos tomorrow. That’s not the win.

1836
01:54:19,310 –> 01:54:22,762
That may be Jeff Bezos’s win, but that’s not your win.

1837
01:54:22,896 –> 01:54:26,510
Your win is going to look like, well, whatever your win looks like.

1838
01:54:26,580 –> 01:54:30,074
And so you have to do enough to play tomorrow.

1839
01:54:30,122 –> 01:54:33,646
And I’ve always kept that. When I talk about getting rid of

1840
01:54:33,748 –> 01:54:35,630
or letting go of anxiety,

1841
01:54:38,770 –> 01:54:42,530
like three years ago and then having the actual, like, okay, now it’s actually gone

1842
01:54:42,600 –> 01:54:45,634
kind of thing, that’s part of being able to play the game,

1843
01:54:45,672 –> 01:54:49,006
because what I realized is the cash in the bank

1844
01:54:49,038 –> 01:54:52,614
account is not the place where I have to have

1845
01:54:52,652 –> 01:54:56,454
the dollar to play tomorrow. It has to be in the mental or

1846
01:54:56,492 –> 01:55:00,106
the emotional bank account. That’s where I have to have it to be able to

1847
01:55:00,128 –> 01:55:03,750
play tomorrow. And issues of scale,

1848
01:55:03,910 –> 01:55:07,594
issues of shrewdness, issues of good management, issues of

1849
01:55:07,632 –> 01:55:11,020
process, issues of people, all of these kinds of things.

1850
01:55:11,790 –> 01:55:15,434
If I don’t have that first thing done again, it’s putting

1851
01:55:15,472 –> 01:55:18,126
the things in the appropriate order. I’m a big fan of putting things in the

1852
01:55:18,148 –> 01:55:22,062
appropriate order. If you don’t put it in the appropriate order, it doesn’t happen.

1853
01:55:22,196 –> 01:55:25,806
Which to

1854
01:55:25,828 –> 01:55:28,530
the point here you’re making about martial arts,

1855
01:55:29,670 –> 01:55:34,066
one of the things that fascinates me about Jiujitsu is you

1856
01:55:34,088 –> 01:55:37,746
have to put things in order first before you can even begin

1857
01:55:37,928 –> 01:55:42,006
to even consider competency. And one

1858
01:55:42,028 –> 01:55:45,894
of the big things at white belt is survival. And then

1859
01:55:45,932 –> 01:55:49,878
at blue belt, you can start thinking about, okay, how do I put things together?

1860
01:55:50,044 –> 01:55:52,774
And then at purple belt, you can start thinking about,

1861
01:55:52,972 –> 01:55:56,250
okay, now I’m a little bit dangerous. Now I can start doing some things.

1862
01:55:56,320 –> 01:55:59,574
At brown belt, you can start thinking about what type of naproxen

1863
01:55:59,622 –> 01:56:01,740
or aspirin you’re going to take every night.

1864
01:56:07,650 –> 01:56:10,734
And then at black belt, you’re not thinking about

1865
01:56:10,772 –> 01:56:14,074
your black belt. And that’s

1866
01:56:14,122 –> 01:56:18,318
great to me because that’s the ultimate

1867
01:56:18,494 –> 01:56:22,002
I don’t really care what I think about this thing, but I

1868
01:56:22,056 –> 01:56:25,460
really don’t care about what you think about this thing,

1869
01:56:25,990 –> 01:56:29,570
man. Both egos are just drained from the whole thing.

1870
01:56:29,720 –> 01:56:33,106
But it takes ten years. It takes you ten years to

1871
01:56:33,128 –> 01:56:36,680
get to that point of ego draining. And I love that. I love that idea.

1872
01:56:37,050 –> 01:56:39,686
So when a long time ago I don’t know if we talked about this last

1873
01:56:39,708 –> 01:56:43,194
time. I was a professional poker player, right? So all of my income came from

1874
01:56:43,232 –> 01:56:46,746
playing cards and dealing in a poker room. It was

1875
01:56:46,768 –> 01:56:50,634
underground here in Fort Worth. And one of the things

1876
01:56:50,672 –> 01:56:54,426
that I took away from my poker coach was, what battle are you

1877
01:56:54,448 –> 01:56:57,662
fighting? Right. Are you willing to go broke to win this hand?

1878
01:56:57,716 –> 01:57:00,446
If so, why? What does that mean?

1879
01:57:00,548 –> 01:57:04,030
And are you trying to win the hand? Are you trying to win the day?

1880
01:57:04,100 –> 01:57:07,694
Are you trying to keep playing? Is how he would always kind of ask

1881
01:57:07,732 –> 01:57:11,022
me about it. And now that was a long time ago, obviously.

1882
01:57:11,076 –> 01:57:13,266
And a friend of mine is still a professional poker player. He has a World

1883
01:57:13,288 –> 01:57:16,846
Series of poker bracelet. He has a couple of rings. And he just always tells

1884
01:57:16,878 –> 01:57:20,994
people, don’t go broke, because if you’re not broke, you can continue on this path,

1885
01:57:21,122 –> 01:57:24,598
and there’s going to be some bad days. There’s going to

1886
01:57:24,604 –> 01:57:28,054
be some bad weeks. Luck invariance these things happen,

1887
01:57:28,172 –> 01:57:32,066
right? 95% sounds amazing until you’re

1888
01:57:32,098 –> 01:57:35,178
on the other 5% of it, right? And even still,

1889
01:57:35,264 –> 01:57:38,602
I know people that have lost half a million dollars because someone

1890
01:57:38,656 –> 01:57:42,186
had a 5% shot to win two cards and one of them

1891
01:57:42,208 –> 01:57:45,386
hits. So there is still like, a luck element. So I

1892
01:57:45,408 –> 01:57:48,810
think about that all the time, right? Because especially as like, an entrepreneur,

1893
01:57:49,790 –> 01:57:52,538
when you’re new and you’re starting out and you don’t really know who you’re going

1894
01:57:52,544 –> 01:57:55,394
to be when you grow up and everything, you got to make it through.

1895
01:57:55,512 –> 01:57:58,658
And someone reached out to me recently because they tried to go out on their

1896
01:57:58,664 –> 01:58:01,506
own. It didn’t really work. They’re concerned about the burn rates and they’re going back

1897
01:58:01,528 –> 01:58:04,738
to work. And I was like, Cool, man. You have forever to go out and

1898
01:58:04,744 –> 01:58:08,106
do this thing on your own. Don’t put yourself in a terrible spot

1899
01:58:08,238 –> 01:58:11,160
because your ego is telling you that you have to do this thing right now.

1900
01:58:13,780 –> 01:58:17,344
Love that you mentioned ego, because that’s a good turn into

1901
01:58:17,382 –> 01:58:19,090
our last section here.

1902
01:58:22,040 –> 01:58:25,552
Want to talk a little bit about the sources

1903
01:58:25,616 –> 01:58:27,060
of Bushido,

1904
01:58:28,360 –> 01:58:33,076
how ego can turn you upside down if you’re not paying attention in

1905
01:58:33,098 –> 01:58:36,980
these fractured times. Back to The Way of the Samurai

1906
01:58:37,320 –> 01:58:41,684
by Anazo Natobe Chapter two sources

1907
01:58:41,732 –> 01:58:44,890
of Bushido. We’re going to read a couple of different selections in here.

1908
01:58:45,660 –> 01:58:48,410
There’s an overall point that I want to make.

1909
01:58:49,260 –> 01:58:52,904
I may begin with Buddhism. It furnishes a sense of calm,

1910
01:58:52,952 –> 01:58:57,036
trusted fate, a quiet submission to the inevitable, that stoic composure in

1911
01:58:57,058 –> 01:59:01,440
sight of danger or calamity, that disdain of life and friendliness with death.

1912
01:59:02,100 –> 01:59:05,456
A foremost teacher of swordmanship swordsmanship, when he saw

1913
01:59:05,478 –> 01:59:09,228
his pupil master the utmost of his art, told him beyond this, my instruction

1914
01:59:09,244 –> 01:59:12,548
must give way to Zen teaching. Zen is the

1915
01:59:12,554 –> 01:59:16,500
Japanese equivalent for the dayana, which represents human

1916
01:59:16,570 –> 01:59:19,936
effort to reach through meditation zones of thought beyond the range of verbal

1917
01:59:19,968 –> 01:59:23,632
expression. Its method is contemplation

1918
01:59:23,696 –> 01:59:27,000
and its purport, as far as I understand it,

1919
01:59:27,070 –> 01:59:30,292
to be convinced of a principle that underlies all phenomena,

1920
01:59:30,436 –> 01:59:33,976
and if it can, of the Absolute itself, and thus to put

1921
01:59:33,998 –> 01:59:36,490
oneself in harmony with this Absolute.

1922
01:59:37,260 –> 01:59:40,376
Thus defined, the teaching was more than the dogma

1923
01:59:40,408 –> 01:59:43,868
of a sect. And whoever attains to the perception of the Absolute

1924
01:59:43,954 –> 01:59:47,404
raises himself above mundane things and awakes to

1925
01:59:47,442 –> 01:59:49,740
a new heaven and a new earth.

1926
01:59:51,040 –> 01:59:54,576
What Buddhism failed to give, Shintoism offered in abundance such loyalty to the

1927
01:59:54,598 –> 01:59:58,156
sovereigns as reverence for ancestral memory and such filial piety

1928
01:59:58,268 –> 02:00:02,540
are not taught by any other creed, were inculcated by the Shinto doctrines

1929
02:00:02,620 –> 02:00:05,908
imparting passivity to the otherwise arrogant character of the

1930
02:00:05,914 –> 02:00:09,456
samurai. Shinto theology has no place for the dogma

1931
02:00:09,488 –> 02:00:13,248
over original sin. On the contrary, it believes in the innate goodness and godlike

1932
02:00:13,264 –> 02:00:17,064
purity of the human soul, adoring it as the attitude from

1933
02:00:17,102 –> 02:00:19,800
which the divine oracles are proclaimed.

1934
02:00:21,100 –> 02:00:24,516
Everybody has observed that Shintos tribes are conspicuously devoid

1935
02:00:24,548 –> 02:00:28,036
of objects and instruments of worship, and that a plain mirror hung in the sanctuary

1936
02:00:28,068 –> 02:00:31,736
forms the essential part of its furnishings. The presence of this article

1937
02:00:31,768 –> 02:00:35,256
is easy to explain. It typifies the human heart, which, when perfectly placid

1938
02:00:35,288 –> 02:00:38,700
and clear, reflects the very image of the Deity. When you stand,

1939
02:00:38,770 –> 02:00:42,256
therefore, in front of the shrine to worship, you see your own image reflected on

1940
02:00:42,278 –> 02:00:45,664
its shining surface. And the act of worship is tantamount to the old

1941
02:00:45,702 –> 02:00:49,904
delphic injunction, know thyself but

1942
02:00:49,942 –> 02:00:53,184
self knowledge does not imply, either in the Greek or Japanese teaching,

1943
02:00:53,232 –> 02:00:57,216
knowledge of the physical part of man, not his anatomy or his psychophysics

1944
02:00:57,328 –> 02:01:01,024
knowledge was to be of a moral kind, the introspection of our moral

1945
02:01:01,072 –> 02:01:04,628
nature. Momson, comparing the Greek and

1946
02:01:04,634 –> 02:01:07,428
the Roman, says that when the former worshiped, he raised his eyes to heaven,

1947
02:01:07,444 –> 02:01:10,824
for his prayer was contemplation, while the latter veiled his head for his was

1948
02:01:10,862 –> 02:01:14,676
reflection. Essentially like the Roman conception of religion, our reflection

1949
02:01:14,708 –> 02:01:18,648
brought into prominence not so much the moral as the national consciousness of

1950
02:01:18,654 –> 02:01:22,188
the individual, its nature. Worship endeared the

1951
02:01:22,194 –> 02:01:25,400
country to our most our inmost souls, while its ancestor worship,

1952
02:01:25,480 –> 02:01:28,844
tracing from lineage to lineage, made the imperial family the fountain head of the whole

1953
02:01:28,882 –> 02:01:32,264
nation. To us, the country is more than land and soil,

1954
02:01:32,312 –> 02:01:35,648
from which to mine gold or to reap grain. It is the sacred abode of

1955
02:01:35,654 –> 02:01:39,344
the gods, the spirits of our forefathers. To us, the emperor is more than

1956
02:01:39,382 –> 02:01:43,024
the arch constable of a rakstat or even

1957
02:01:43,222 –> 02:01:47,504
the patron of a culture sat. He is the bold, the bodily representative

1958
02:01:47,552 –> 02:01:51,332
of heaven on earth, blending in his person, its power,

1959
02:01:51,386 –> 02:01:54,784
and its mercy. If what Mbutumi says is true of English

1960
02:01:54,832 –> 02:01:58,868
royalty, that it is not only the image of authority, but the author and symbol

1961
02:01:58,884 –> 02:02:02,328
of national unity, as I believe it to be, doubly and trebly, may this be

1962
02:02:02,334 –> 02:02:06,084
affirmed of royalty in Japan. The tenets of Shintoism

1963
02:02:06,132 –> 02:02:10,712
cover the two predominating features of the emotional life of our race patriotism and loyalty.

1964
02:02:10,856 –> 02:02:14,904
Arthur Maynapp very truly says quote in Hebrew literature

1965
02:02:14,952 –> 02:02:18,712
is often difficult to tell whether the writer is speaking of God or the commonwealth

1966
02:02:18,776 –> 02:02:22,130
of heaven or of Jerusalem, of the Messiah or of the nation itself.

1967
02:02:22,660 –> 02:02:26,560
A similar confusion may be noticed in the nomenclature of our national faith.

1968
02:02:26,900 –> 02:02:30,576
I said confusion because it will be so deemed by logical intellect on

1969
02:02:30,598 –> 02:02:34,368
account of its verbal ambiguity still being a framework of national instinct

1970
02:02:34,384 –> 02:02:38,448
and race feelings. Shintoism never pretends to be a systemic

1971
02:02:38,624 –> 02:02:42,672
philosophy or. Irrational theology. This religion,

1972
02:02:42,736 –> 02:02:46,772
or is it more correct to say, the race emotions which this religion expressed

1973
02:02:46,836 –> 02:02:50,330
thoroughly, imbued Bushida with loyalty to the sovereign and love of country.

1974
02:02:50,700 –> 02:02:54,212
These acted more as impulses than as doctrines or shintoism.

1975
02:02:54,276 –> 02:02:56,872
Unlike the medieval Christian church,

1976
02:02:57,016 –> 02:03:00,668
prescribed to its voters scarcely any credenda, furnishing them at

1977
02:03:00,674 –> 02:03:03,832
the same time with an agenda of a straightforward

1978
02:03:03,976 –> 02:03:07,768
and simple type as to strictly

1979
02:03:07,784 –> 02:03:11,432
ethical doctrines. The teaching of Confucius were the most prolific source of Bushido.

1980
02:03:11,496 –> 02:03:15,228
His enunciation of the five moral relations between master and servant, the governing

1981
02:03:15,244 –> 02:03:18,316
and the governed, father and son, husband and wife, older and younger,

1982
02:03:18,348 –> 02:03:21,776
brother, and between friend and friend, was but a confirmation of what the race

1983
02:03:21,808 –> 02:03:24,980
instinct had recognized before his writings were introduced.

1984
02:03:25,560 –> 02:03:26,980
From China,

1985
02:03:29,240 –> 02:03:32,688
the writings of Confucius and Mensius formed the principal textbooks

1986
02:03:32,704 –> 02:03:36,156
for youths and the highest authority in discussion among

1987
02:03:36,208 –> 02:03:39,832
the old. A mere acquaintance with

1988
02:03:39,886 –> 02:03:43,592
the classics of these two stages was held, however, in no high esteem. A common

1989
02:03:43,646 –> 02:03:47,300
proverb ridicules one who is only an intellectual knowledge of Confucius

1990
02:03:47,460 –> 02:03:50,496
as a man ever studious, but ignorant of analytics.

1991
02:03:50,628 –> 02:03:55,260
A typical samurai calls a literary savant a book smelling SOT.

1992
02:03:55,600 –> 02:03:59,016
Another compares learning to an ill smelling vegetable that must be boiled

1993
02:03:59,048 –> 02:04:02,576
and boiled before it is fit for use. A man who has read a

1994
02:04:02,598 –> 02:04:06,016
little, smells a little pedantic, and a man who has read much smells yet more

1995
02:04:06,038 –> 02:04:09,836
so. Both are alike unpleasant. The writer

1996
02:04:09,948 –> 02:04:13,644
meant thereby that knowledge becomes really such only when it is assimilated

1997
02:04:13,692 –> 02:04:17,220
in the mind of the learner and shows in his character.

1998
02:04:18,200 –> 02:04:21,828
Bushido made light of knowledge as such. It was not pursued as an end

1999
02:04:21,914 –> 02:04:25,240
in itself, but as a means to the attainment of wisdom.

2000
02:04:25,660 –> 02:04:29,316
Hence he who stopped short of this end was regarded

2001
02:04:29,348 –> 02:04:33,348
no higher than a convenient machine which could turn out poems and maxims

2002
02:04:33,364 –> 02:04:37,064
at bidding. Thus knowledge was conceived as identical

2003
02:04:37,112 –> 02:04:40,856
with its practical application in life, and this socratic

2004
02:04:40,888 –> 02:04:44,024
doctrine found its greatest exponent in the Chinese

2005
02:04:44,072 –> 02:04:47,804
philosopher Wan Yang Ming, who never wearies of

2006
02:04:47,842 –> 02:04:51,680
repeating to know and to act are one

2007
02:04:51,830 –> 02:04:56,000
and the same. I’m going to skip forward

2008
02:04:56,070 –> 02:04:59,712
a little bit, and I’m going to bring this up. Thus whatever

2009
02:04:59,766 –> 02:05:03,392
the sources, the essential principles which Bashido imbibe from them and assimilated to itself

2010
02:05:03,446 –> 02:05:06,656
were few and simple. Few and simple as these were, they were sufficient to furnish

2011
02:05:06,688 –> 02:05:10,016
a safe conduct of life even through the unsafest

2012
02:05:10,128 –> 02:05:13,030
days of the most unsettled period of our nation’s history.

2013
02:05:13,880 –> 02:05:17,444
The wholesome unsophisticated nature of our warrior ancestors derived ample

2014
02:05:17,492 –> 02:05:21,044
food for their spirit from a sheaf of commonplace and fragmentary teachings,

2015
02:05:21,172 –> 02:05:25,668
gleaned, as it were, on the highways and byways of ancient thought, and stimulated

2016
02:05:25,764 –> 02:05:29,196
by the demands of the age, formed from these gleamings a

2017
02:05:29,218 –> 02:05:33,016
new and unique type of manhood. An acute French savant,

2018
02:05:33,128 –> 02:05:36,696
M. De la Mazelier, thus sums up his impressions

2019
02:05:36,728 –> 02:05:40,396
of the 16th century. Quote for

2020
02:05:40,418 –> 02:05:43,664
the middle of the 16th century, all this confusion in Japan, in the government,

2021
02:05:43,782 –> 02:05:47,756
in society, in the Church. But the civil wars, the manners returning

2022
02:05:47,788 –> 02:05:51,516
to barbarism, the necessity for each to execute justice for himself.

2023
02:05:51,628 –> 02:05:55,056
These formed men comparable to those Italians of the 16th century,

2024
02:05:55,168 –> 02:05:58,464
in whom Tain praises the vigorous initiative,

2025
02:05:58,512 –> 02:06:02,224
the habit of sudden resolutions and desperate undertakings, the grand

2026
02:06:02,272 –> 02:06:06,212
capacity to do and to suffer. In Japan, as in Italy,

2027
02:06:06,276 –> 02:06:09,944
the rude manners of the Middle Ages, made of man a

2028
02:06:09,982 –> 02:06:13,540
superb animal, wholly militant and wholly

2029
02:06:13,620 –> 02:06:16,984
resistant. And this is why

2030
02:06:17,022 –> 02:06:20,588
the 16th century displays in the highest degree the principal quality of

2031
02:06:20,594 –> 02:06:23,852
the Japanese race, that great diversity which one finds there between

2032
02:06:23,906 –> 02:06:27,596
minds as well as between temperaments. While in

2033
02:06:27,618 –> 02:06:30,716
India, and even in China, men seem to differ chiefly

2034
02:06:30,828 –> 02:06:33,628
in degree of energy or intelligence,

2035
02:06:33,804 –> 02:06:37,920
in Japan, they differ by originality of character

2036
02:06:38,500 –> 02:06:39,570
as well.

2037
02:06:44,570 –> 02:06:47,350
Holy, militant and wholly resistant.

2038
02:06:50,170 –> 02:06:53,720
Circle back to politeness. We’re going to close the loop here

2039
02:06:54,410 –> 02:06:56,040
with John.

2040
02:06:58,670 –> 02:07:02,054
This rudeness that we’re experiencing right now in our culture

2041
02:07:02,102 –> 02:07:05,594
really bugs me. And the

2042
02:07:05,632 –> 02:07:09,174
technology and the communication patterns of the people of the early 20th,

2043
02:07:09,222 –> 02:07:13,082
1st century, particularly in the United States, have created

2044
02:07:13,146 –> 02:07:16,682
leaders, or at least have given space to leaders, who are wholly militant

2045
02:07:16,746 –> 02:07:20,126
and wholly resistant, mostly for the sake of clicks in

2046
02:07:20,148 –> 02:07:23,120
our time and hot takes.

2047
02:07:24,470 –> 02:07:28,194
But if you’re not contextual enough, or if you’re not wise enough

2048
02:07:28,232 –> 02:07:31,634
to pick up on that, you’re not going to know. You’re going to fall

2049
02:07:31,672 –> 02:07:32,610
for the trick.

2050
02:07:34,950 –> 02:07:39,074
2020 was an interesting year. There was a lot of genuine panic,

2051
02:07:39,122 –> 02:07:42,774
but there was also this idea of pedal panicking, which comes

2052
02:07:42,812 –> 02:07:46,434
from the real estate business, where you move somebody into a neighborhood

2053
02:07:46,482 –> 02:07:50,054
or yours. Real estate agent walk into a neighborhood and you tell

2054
02:07:50,092 –> 02:07:53,098
everybody, hey, those people over there or these people over here are getting ready to

2055
02:07:53,104 –> 02:07:55,994
move into the neighborhood. You might want to sell your house and then you cause

2056
02:07:56,032 –> 02:07:59,966
a bank run or a real estate run. And yes, real estate agents have

2057
02:07:59,988 –> 02:08:01,440
actually done that in the past.

2058
02:08:03,650 –> 02:08:09,614
There’s a lot of panic pedaling that went on in 2020 and

2059
02:08:09,812 –> 02:08:13,662
that has created an environment where rudeness is now our highest

2060
02:08:13,726 –> 02:08:17,618
virtue. But there is hope.

2061
02:08:17,784 –> 02:08:21,394
This is why I do the podcast. There is hope for those who

2062
02:08:21,432 –> 02:08:25,470
want to grow in character, who want to abandon the ego,

2063
02:08:25,630 –> 02:08:29,526
and who want to become intentional and competent in the work of

2064
02:08:29,548 –> 02:08:33,430
leading without descending into the brutal in the short term.

2065
02:08:34,730 –> 02:08:37,820
I will admit, I do have a hobbesian view of man,

2066
02:08:39,230 –> 02:08:42,746
but it’s tempered by optimism. I do think we

2067
02:08:42,768 –> 02:08:45,722
can be better because there’s been times in history when we have been better,

2068
02:08:45,776 –> 02:08:49,526
but it’s hard. And the ego would rather

2069
02:08:49,568 –> 02:08:52,766
do the lazy thing and be wholly militant and

2070
02:08:52,788 –> 02:08:55,680
wholly resistant, particularly when it’s easy to get a click.

2071
02:08:59,240 –> 02:09:02,640
John how do we stay on the path?

2072
02:09:02,720 –> 02:09:05,370
How do we lead in these fractured times?

2073
02:09:06,380 –> 02:09:09,400
How do we lead without being militant and resistant.

2074
02:09:11,740 –> 02:09:15,144
How do we incorporate the way of the samurai into what we do in our

2075
02:09:15,182 –> 02:09:19,580
daily lives as leaders? I really liked

2076
02:09:20,000 –> 02:09:23,176
and I highlighted that kind of last section that you were reading about where they’re

2077
02:09:23,208 –> 02:09:26,716
talking about someone who reads too many books is just a thought,

2078
02:09:26,818 –> 02:09:30,188
right? And it speaks to this idea, and I

2079
02:09:30,194 –> 02:09:33,676
see this in entrepreneurial groups where someone is like, hey, I read 75 books

2080
02:09:33,708 –> 02:09:36,704
last year, and then some person who didn’t read one is like, but how many

2081
02:09:36,742 –> 02:09:40,236
have you implemented? Okay, well, at least they’re,

2082
02:09:40,268 –> 02:09:43,888
like, trying. And I see this as a big reader and also someone who

2083
02:09:43,894 –> 02:09:47,364
tries to implement things that I think I can use in my in my business

2084
02:09:47,402 –> 02:09:50,676
and in my coaching. I think the other

2085
02:09:50,698 –> 02:09:54,500
side of this. Thing was Lex Friedman gets a bad rap.

2086
02:09:55,240 –> 02:09:58,644
Why does he get a bad rap? Well, he tweeted out

2087
02:09:58,682 –> 02:10:01,880
something. Oh, gosh, like, at the end of the beginning of this year about

2088
02:10:01,950 –> 02:10:05,448
reading, like, I don’t know, 20 books in a year. And he tweeted out,

2089
02:10:05,454 –> 02:10:08,548
like, heavy duty books, and then Nicholas Haseem Talib came for

2090
02:10:08,574 –> 02:10:12,332
him. And I was like, Why? The man’s trying something.

2091
02:10:12,466 –> 02:10:15,644
Yeah. And I like, Nicholas haseem talib. I really do.

2092
02:10:15,842 –> 02:10:19,196
I have all his books. I enjoy thinking about fractals, but come

2093
02:10:19,218 –> 02:10:22,124
on, dude, I understand you’re in a corner of a room in Lebanon somewhere.

2094
02:10:22,172 –> 02:10:24,690
Like, I get it. You’re better than all of us, but come on.

2095
02:10:27,140 –> 02:10:31,024
I think that the answer to the big question that we’ve been talking about

2096
02:10:31,062 –> 02:10:34,036
here is a chapter we’ve not talked about in the book.

2097
02:10:34,058 –> 02:10:37,636
And it’s the self control chapter, right? Because from the

2098
02:10:37,658 –> 02:10:41,316
outside of this, the samurais are pictured as

2099
02:10:41,338 –> 02:10:44,896
these, like, the jockos of your if that makes sense.

2100
02:10:44,938 –> 02:10:48,708
Right. You know what I’m talking about. I’ve met Jocko, and he’s

2101
02:10:48,724 –> 02:10:52,532
a very interesting guy. Lives what he preaches.

2102
02:10:52,596 –> 02:10:55,784
It’s amazing. He’s always talking about self control and being

2103
02:10:55,822 –> 02:10:59,460
disciplined and doing these things. And in this chapter,

2104
02:10:59,540 –> 02:11:02,924
there’s a couple of things in here that highlighted and have just been

2105
02:11:02,962 –> 02:11:06,156
standing out to me since reading the thing. And I think it really comes down

2106
02:11:06,178 –> 02:11:10,776
to this. One of the things that I highlighted was calmness

2107
02:11:10,808 –> 02:11:14,076
of behavior, composure of mind should not be disturbed

2108
02:11:14,108 –> 02:11:15,570
by passion of any kind.

2109
02:11:16,420 –> 02:11:19,776
Yes. Right. So let’s look at what that

2110
02:11:19,798 –> 02:11:23,232
means, right? Someone goes around you,

2111
02:11:23,286 –> 02:11:26,628
and you’re mad about it because it’s your guy should have come to you first.

2112
02:11:26,714 –> 02:11:30,260
Why are you so riled up? You’re riled up out of fear,

2113
02:11:30,840 –> 02:11:34,116
right? You’re fearful you’re going to lose your job or you look like you’re not

2114
02:11:34,138 –> 02:11:37,588
doing something, so you’re just going to take it out on someone. That’s ridiculous.

2115
02:11:37,684 –> 02:11:41,476
Right? Handle your stuff. You shouldn’t be that concerned about it. I highlighted

2116
02:11:41,508 –> 02:11:44,696
that on the other side of it. I highlighted this

2117
02:11:44,718 –> 02:11:48,148
other passage that I thought was very interesting. Discipline and

2118
02:11:48,174 –> 02:11:51,692
self control can easily go too far. It can well repress the genial current

2119
02:11:51,746 –> 02:11:56,040
of the soul. It can force pliant natures into distortions and monstrosities.

2120
02:11:56,200 –> 02:12:00,444
It can beget bigotry breed hypocrisy and

2121
02:12:00,562 –> 02:12:03,664
hebitate affections be a virtue never so

2122
02:12:03,702 –> 02:12:05,890
noble, right?

2123
02:12:10,340 –> 02:12:13,410
I think we’re talking about polar ends of this thing, right?

2124
02:12:14,100 –> 02:12:17,396
You’ve got people that are rankled every

2125
02:12:17,418 –> 02:12:20,676
time everything doesn’t go their way. And then you have people who are making such

2126
02:12:20,698 –> 02:12:24,116
a big deal about how so disciplined that they are that they’re like living kind

2127
02:12:24,138 –> 02:12:27,416
of like monks and there’s a whole lot of room in the middle.

2128
02:12:27,518 –> 02:12:31,364
But I think the thing to really be thoughtful

2129
02:12:31,412 –> 02:12:35,144
about is the self control to not post

2130
02:12:35,182 –> 02:12:38,408
the hot take, right? The self control to not send that email

2131
02:12:38,494 –> 02:12:41,836
when you’re fired up about it because you’re ramped up. And poker players do an

2132
02:12:41,858 –> 02:12:46,056
amazing job of realizing tilt, right? Tilt is emotional thinking that causes

2133
02:12:46,088 –> 02:12:49,676
you to take subpar actions, right? And when

2134
02:12:49,698 –> 02:12:52,348
you’re fired up about an email and you’re going to fire it off to someone,

2135
02:12:52,434 –> 02:12:56,048
yeah, you’re tilted, right. If you get off of a call where someone has

2136
02:12:56,054 –> 02:12:59,504
ghosted you and you’re like, you know what? I’m not taking no from this next

2137
02:12:59,542 –> 02:13:03,200
person no matter what, that’s tilted thinking, right? You are not

2138
02:13:03,270 –> 02:13:06,916
under control in those moments. And you and I know

2139
02:13:06,938 –> 02:13:10,324
this as martial artists, right? If all these guys were like, man,

2140
02:13:10,442 –> 02:13:13,380
when I’m mad at a C red cool, you’re going to lose.

2141
02:13:13,800 –> 02:13:17,216
You’re going to get destroyed by the person who has presence

2142
02:13:17,248 –> 02:13:20,664
of mind because they’ve been here before. They’ve normalized this whole

2143
02:13:20,702 –> 02:13:24,136
thing and they have a game and a program and you’re just out

2144
02:13:24,158 –> 02:13:28,248
here winging it. They’re going to destroy you. Right? It’s that

2145
02:13:28,334 –> 02:13:31,688
self control that I think that people are missing, right? And it’s

2146
02:13:31,704 –> 02:13:35,548
easy to thrive in because of the anonymity of some of these platforms and social

2147
02:13:35,634 –> 02:13:40,348
things. But I just think that most people I

2148
02:13:40,354 –> 02:13:44,316
think most people don’t have enough self control, right? And I

2149
02:13:44,338 –> 02:13:47,576
think that the people who do. I love Jocko.

2150
02:13:47,768 –> 02:13:50,588
I like his book. I mean, his book is a top shelf book to me,

2151
02:13:50,594 –> 02:13:53,700
which means that recommend it to people, like as often as I possibly can.

2152
02:13:53,770 –> 02:13:57,444
I’ve met him, super solid guy. But I saw this tweet and I

2153
02:13:57,482 –> 02:14:00,368
laugh about it every time I think about this. If the only thing you’re known

2154
02:14:00,384 –> 02:14:03,364
for is getting up at 430 in the morning, you probably need to be doing

2155
02:14:03,402 –> 02:14:06,230
something else, right?

2156
02:14:07,740 –> 02:14:11,316
He’s probably had some amazing outcomes with the people that he’s coached.

2157
02:14:11,348 –> 02:14:14,328
And I’m sure his book has had some amazing impacts on people.

2158
02:14:14,414 –> 02:14:17,896
He’s got thriving businesses and everything. But still, the only thing that people talk about

2159
02:14:17,918 –> 02:14:20,668
with him is that he gets up at 430 and he does jujitsu and he

2160
02:14:20,674 –> 02:14:24,044
lifts weights and he surfs and that’s it. No one

2161
02:14:24,082 –> 02:14:26,812
talks about the other parts of this thing because the only thing that people are

2162
02:14:26,866 –> 02:14:30,256
latched onto is the discipline that he talks about,

2163
02:14:30,358 –> 02:14:31,010
right.

2164
02:14:34,980 –> 02:14:37,984
When you’re on a path. I firmly believe that if you want to be great

2165
02:14:38,022 –> 02:14:41,296
in something, it’s about the trade offs you’re willing to make on

2166
02:14:41,318 –> 02:14:44,816
that path to greatness. So, yeah, you’re going to get up at 430.

2167
02:14:44,918 –> 02:14:48,596
No one cares, though. Yeah, you’re going to go and

2168
02:14:48,778 –> 02:14:51,028
if you’re on a martial arts path, you’re going to get hit, you’re going to

2169
02:14:51,034 –> 02:14:54,676
get hurt. It’s going to suck occasionally. Right. And people aren’t going to get

2170
02:14:54,698 –> 02:14:57,590
it. That’s your thing.

2171
02:14:58,280 –> 02:15:01,656
You shouldn’t be trying to sell the virtue of your martial arts path to

2172
02:15:01,678 –> 02:15:04,856
people who don’t care about martial arts. Just talk about like it’s just a way

2173
02:15:04,878 –> 02:15:08,344
of life for you. Because that’s kind of the place that I got to because

2174
02:15:08,382 –> 02:15:11,284
for a long time I love martial arts. God,

2175
02:15:11,422 –> 02:15:14,492
the impact it’s had on my life as far as becoming a better

2176
02:15:14,546 –> 02:15:18,172
human, I can’t even begin to talk about it.

2177
02:15:18,226 –> 02:15:21,608
Right. I mean, every aspect of my life has been changed because of that path.

2178
02:15:21,784 –> 02:15:25,232
And I talk about it a lot in my coaching and my content and everything.

2179
02:15:25,286 –> 02:15:28,690
And I know that it’s not for everybody, but I also know

2180
02:15:29,700 –> 02:15:32,956
if you’ve done something, you have a similar path

2181
02:15:32,988 –> 02:15:36,220
to my martial arts path. Like if you’ve been a musician,

2182
02:15:36,300 –> 02:15:39,856
cool. You know what, you’ve not gotten hit and punched, but you’ve had to grind

2183
02:15:39,888 –> 02:15:43,140
it out in front of crowds who didn’t know who you were. I respect that.

2184
02:15:43,290 –> 02:15:46,356
Right. Comedians who will get up and bomb on purpose because

2185
02:15:46,378 –> 02:15:49,624
they’ve got some new material that they’re dying to try out, but everyone

2186
02:15:49,662 –> 02:15:53,096
just wants the old stuff. I respect that. And these

2187
02:15:53,118 –> 02:15:56,216
people aren’t walking around making big deals about it. This is just part of the

2188
02:15:56,238 –> 02:16:00,348
path of improvement. I think

2189
02:16:00,354 –> 02:16:03,484
that that self control thing, it’s just most

2190
02:16:03,522 –> 02:16:07,016
people don’t need a megaphone and all social media is a megaphone,

2191
02:16:07,048 –> 02:16:10,252
is how I think about it. So it’s just easy to

2192
02:16:10,306 –> 02:16:14,040
hang in the crowd, right? You got miles of separation.

2193
02:16:14,120 –> 02:16:16,928
I’m going to say whatever I want. It’s going to be great. And then you

2194
02:16:16,934 –> 02:16:19,696
can’t understand why people are mad at you in person whenever you make the same

2195
02:16:19,718 –> 02:16:22,880
kind of comments. Because they’re crappy comments.

2196
02:16:23,040 –> 02:16:26,756
They didn’t need to be said. I game with all

2197
02:16:26,778 –> 02:16:30,324
these kids, right. They’re people I don’t know. Right.

2198
02:16:30,362 –> 02:16:33,876
And some of the voices you have to be a

2199
02:16:33,898 –> 02:16:36,550
kid to have a voice like that. That’s just how it works. Yeah,

2200
02:16:38,140 –> 02:16:41,016
I’m old and I’m not super good at this game. And I’ll have people be

2201
02:16:41,038 –> 02:16:44,504
like, bro, no offense, but you’re terrible about this.

2202
02:16:44,622 –> 02:16:47,764
Cool. We’re in the same game, man. Like in the same league

2203
02:16:47,812 –> 02:16:51,500
at the same level and everything. But, you know, so maybe, maybe not

2204
02:16:51,570 –> 02:16:54,972
needing to be said kind of deal. And it just baffles me

2205
02:16:55,026 –> 02:16:59,804
how they just no

2206
02:16:59,842 –> 02:17:03,852
offense, if I’m being honest. Self control is

2207
02:17:03,906 –> 02:17:07,040
and I highlighted the same pieces that you highlighted in that self control

2208
02:17:07,110 –> 02:17:10,016
chapter. And if we had more time today, that was actually going to be,

2209
02:17:10,038 –> 02:17:11,948
like, a little bit more than I was going to talk about because I thought

2210
02:17:12,054 –> 02:17:15,124
that was some real juice in there.

2211
02:17:15,242 –> 02:17:18,656
And it’s a short chapter, too. It’s one of the shortest

2212
02:17:18,688 –> 02:17:22,212
ones in the book and what it probably

2213
02:17:22,266 –> 02:17:25,910
should have been first. Probably. Yeah. Well, right.

2214
02:17:26,280 –> 02:17:28,568
The man was operating at a different kind. He was doing a different kind of

2215
02:17:28,574 –> 02:17:32,216
thing, for sure. Yeah. He’s not trying

2216
02:17:32,238 –> 02:17:35,576
to turn people to that way of thinking. He’s trying to

2217
02:17:35,598 –> 02:17:38,916
show this isn’t that different than what you’ve

2218
02:17:38,948 –> 02:17:42,204
been through. And he does a masterful job of that.

2219
02:17:42,242 –> 02:17:45,676
Right. If he didn’t bring in all those worldly references and

2220
02:17:45,698 –> 02:17:49,576
compare it in the way that he does, this book would be easy to

2221
02:17:49,618 –> 02:17:52,976
ignore. But if you choose to ignore it now, I think it’s at your own

2222
02:17:52,998 –> 02:17:57,584
peril. I’d like to thank John

2223
02:17:57,782 –> 02:18:01,528
Hill, aka Small Mountain, for coming on the podcast

2224
02:18:01,644 –> 02:18:03,910
yet again today.

2225
02:18:05,480 –> 02:18:08,630
Always a good conversation. I could talk to this guy for hours.

2226
02:18:09,000 –> 02:18:12,816
Same. Please keep picking cool, like martial

2227
02:18:12,848 –> 02:18:16,776
arts books, and I’m down to be your

2228
02:18:16,798 –> 02:18:20,120
sparring partner over any of them, my friend. This is awesome. Awesome.

2229
02:18:20,190 –> 02:18:23,208
Yeah. We try to do at least one a year,

2230
02:18:23,294 –> 02:18:24,410
sometimes two.

2231
02:18:29,020 –> 02:18:31,230
One really gets information there.

2232
02:18:32,960 –> 02:18:35,976
I do want to go back, and I want to recover. Sun Zoo, I don’t

2233
02:18:36,008 –> 02:18:39,388
really like how that episode came together. I’ll be down for

2234
02:18:39,394 –> 02:18:42,764
that cover Art of War again. There’s some things

2235
02:18:42,802 –> 02:18:46,264
in there that I’d really like to bounce off of another fellow

2236
02:18:46,312 –> 02:18:51,830
devotee of the Marshall Game and

2237
02:18:52,360 –> 02:18:55,920
examine those tactics and practices

2238
02:18:56,000 –> 02:18:59,268
that Sun Zoo talks about in

2239
02:18:59,274 –> 02:19:02,692
a different kind of way as we close.

2240
02:19:02,826 –> 02:19:06,408
I will say this self control is key to staying on the

2241
02:19:06,414 –> 02:19:09,800
path, but so is patience and veracity and courage.

2242
02:19:11,260 –> 02:19:14,664
So is understanding the role of women and the understanding of

2243
02:19:14,702 –> 02:19:18,764
how we fit into society with

2244
02:19:18,882 –> 02:19:22,556
our families and with our friends and

2245
02:19:22,578 –> 02:19:26,670
with our intimate partners and all the way up and all the way down.

2246
02:19:27,840 –> 02:19:31,276
There’s an issue of scale, right? What’s good

2247
02:19:31,298 –> 02:19:33,776
for me may not be good for you, and what’s good for you may not

2248
02:19:33,798 –> 02:19:37,468
be good for me. But collectively, we can democratically.

2249
02:19:37,644 –> 02:19:41,456
This is the dream. Find a way that is good for everybody by

2250
02:19:41,478 –> 02:19:45,910
groping our way forward. And this is what Inazo Natobe believed in.

2251
02:19:46,840 –> 02:19:50,068
He had his entire life and his entire career during a

2252
02:19:50,074 –> 02:19:53,990
fascinating period of time in Japanese and in world history

2253
02:19:54,360 –> 02:19:57,924
when that groping, when that groping,

2254
02:19:57,972 –> 02:20:01,720
felt like groping, felt like groping in the dark, felt desperate.

2255
02:20:02,140 –> 02:20:06,184
Matches our own time, right? Look, we may

2256
02:20:06,222 –> 02:20:09,464
have a Third World war, or we may not. We may

2257
02:20:09,502 –> 02:20:13,276
have more economic strife, or we may not. We may have natural disasters that

2258
02:20:13,298 –> 02:20:16,744
rip apart our country, or we may not. We may have riots

2259
02:20:16,792 –> 02:20:18,830
or insurrections or we may not,

2260
02:20:20,400 –> 02:20:23,904
but one thing that it does remain we will

2261
02:20:23,942 –> 02:20:27,056
always need leaders. We will

2262
02:20:27,078 –> 02:20:30,448
need leaders who have not necessarily the

2263
02:20:30,454 –> 02:20:33,684
code of Bushido, but who have a

2264
02:20:33,722 –> 02:20:36,470
moral compass and an ethical focus,

2265
02:20:36,840 –> 02:20:40,150
who on purpose choose to behave in certain ways

2266
02:20:40,680 –> 02:20:43,204
and then follow through in those ways,

2267
02:20:43,402 –> 02:20:47,032
regardless of what the clearing at the end of the path might

2268
02:20:47,086 –> 02:20:50,744
be. Once again, I want to thank my guest co

2269
02:20:50,782 –> 02:20:54,040
host today for this episode, John Hill.

2270
02:20:54,700 –> 02:20:55,930
And with that,

2271
02:20:58,240 –> 02:20:59,390
I’m out.

2272
02:21:03,500 –> 02:21:07,336
Listen and subscribe to the Leadership Lessons from the Great Books Podcast on all

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2280
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2287
02:22:01,854 –> 02:22:05,668
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Your Boss, and subscribe to the Little Red Podcast I launched

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earlier this year with the same name as that Little Red Book.

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02:22:21,220 –> 02:22:24,412
My most recent book is Twelve Rules for Leaders

2293
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The Foundation of Intentional Leadership, co written with contributions

2294
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from Bradley Matican. This is the book for right

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now that was written for leaders right now. Pick up a copy

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Now that’s twelverulesleadersbook.com.

2298
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Now you pay for shipping and you’ll get a copy of my second book

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as well. Finally, you can get all these books in paperback,

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hardcover or as ebooks on Amazon, Barnes and Noble,

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2308
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to my other podcast. That’s right, I do do more than

2309
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one. The Jesan Sorrells presents Audio Experience, where I

2310
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talk more casually with a broader range of people

2311
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all the way to analytics. All right,

2313
02:23:38,300 –> 02:23:39,864
that’s it for me.

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