RE-BROADCAST – Malcolm X Speaks: Selected Speeches and Statements. George Breitman, ed. w/Dorollo Nixon & Jesan Sorrells

1
00:00:01,040 –> 00:00:04,660
Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

2
00:00:04,660 –> 00:00:08,115
Leadership Lessons for the Great Books podcast, episode

3
00:00:08,335 –> 00:00:09,555
number 97.

4
00:00:12,174 –> 00:00:15,475
With our book today, a collection

5
00:00:15,855 –> 00:00:19,340
of of what are publicly available,

6
00:00:20,200 –> 00:00:23,880
speeches and statements from the lips of a man who once

7
00:00:23,880 –> 00:00:27,605
said quite rightly that, quote,

8
00:00:27,605 –> 00:00:31,305
revolutions are based on land. Revolutions overturn

9
00:00:31,445 –> 00:00:35,240
systems. Of course, when the revolution

10
00:00:35,240 –> 00:00:38,920
is over, then the immortal lines of Juan Miranda from the

11
00:00:38,920 –> 00:00:42,555
film Duck, You Sucker or A Fistful of Dynamite from

12
00:00:42,555 –> 00:00:45,695
19 seventies, then become a little more accurate.

13
00:00:46,235 –> 00:00:49,855
And I quote directly from a fistful of dynamite,

14
00:00:50,800 –> 00:00:53,860
The people who read the books go to the people who can’t read the books,

15
00:00:54,080 –> 00:00:57,520
the poor people would say, we have to have a change. So the poor people

16
00:00:57,520 –> 00:01:01,274
make the change. And then the people who read the books, they sit around the

17
00:01:01,274 –> 00:01:04,555
big polished tables and they talk and talk and talk and eat and eat and

18
00:01:04,555 –> 00:01:06,795
eat and eat and eat and eat and eat. But what has happened to the

19
00:01:06,795 –> 00:01:10,229
poor people? They are dead, close

20
00:01:10,229 –> 00:01:13,990
quote. This orator and

21
00:01:13,990 –> 00:01:17,265
revolutionary from the 19 sixties

22
00:01:17,725 –> 00:01:21,345
stood precariously between the revolution and what happened

23
00:01:21,405 –> 00:01:24,869
after the revolution as the heir to the

24
00:01:24,869 –> 00:01:28,330
ideas of Marcus Garvey and the revolutionary grandfather

25
00:01:28,710 –> 00:01:32,270
to Eldridge Cleaver. We Libby

26
00:01:32,295 –> 00:01:35,915
joined on this revolutionary journey to explore

27
00:01:35,975 –> 00:01:39,814
this man’s speeches and statements at the close of Black

28
00:01:39,814 –> 00:01:43,479
History Month in the United States with our returning

29
00:01:43,479 –> 00:01:46,619
guest and sparring partner, from episode number 94,

30
00:01:47,240 –> 00:01:50,515
where we covered Invisible Man by Ralph Ellison, DiRolo

31
00:01:50,735 –> 00:01:54,035
Nixon junior. Welcome to the podcast, DiRolo.

32
00:01:54,575 –> 00:01:58,115
How are you doing today? You, sir. Pleasure to be here as always.

33
00:01:58,380 –> 00:02:01,900
Alright. And so we will be looking at Malcolm x

34
00:02:01,900 –> 00:02:04,240
Speaks. We’ll be looking at several different,

35
00:02:05,435 –> 00:02:09,195
several different speeches. We’re kinda gonna be moving around as we, as

36
00:02:09,195 –> 00:02:11,835
we go through his speeches, and we’ll be talking about

37
00:02:12,860 –> 00:02:16,620
well, we’ll be talking about revolution. We’ll be talking about the literary life

38
00:02:16,620 –> 00:02:20,379
of Malcolm x, and we’ll be talking about we’re gonna

39
00:02:20,379 –> 00:02:23,675
talk about what happens after you win

40
00:02:24,615 –> 00:02:28,375
the revolution because that’s when the hard part, the

41
00:02:28,375 –> 00:02:32,220
less romantic part really starts to kick in. And

42
00:02:32,220 –> 00:02:35,980
there are lessons for leaders inside of that. So

43
00:02:35,980 –> 00:02:39,660
from, Malcolm X’s speech, the Black

44
00:02:39,660 –> 00:02:43,084
Revolution, This was a speech that was delivered,

45
00:02:43,864 –> 00:02:47,325
at a meeting sponsored by the Militant Labor Forum at Palm

46
00:02:47,385 –> 00:02:50,700
Gardens in New York, on April 8,

47
00:02:50,920 –> 00:02:54,440
1964. Malcolm X said, and I

48
00:02:54,440 –> 00:02:58,040
quote, so today when the black man starts reaching out for what America

49
00:02:58,040 –> 00:03:01,665
says are his rights, the black man feels that he is within his rights when

50
00:03:01,665 –> 00:03:05,185
he becomes the victim of brutality by those who are depriving him of his rights

51
00:03:05,185 –> 00:03:08,930
to do whatever is necessary to protect himself. An example of

52
00:03:08,930 –> 00:03:12,370
this was taking place last night in the same time in Cleveland, where the police

53
00:03:12,370 –> 00:03:15,990
were putting water hoses on our people there and also throwing tear gas at them.

54
00:03:16,025 –> 00:03:18,905
And they met a hail of stones, a hail of rocks, a hail of bricks.

55
00:03:18,905 –> 00:03:22,504
A couple of weeks ago in Jacksonville, Florida, a young teenage Negro was

56
00:03:22,504 –> 00:03:26,230
throwing Molotov cocktails. Well, Negroes

57
00:03:26,230 –> 00:03:29,430
didn’t do this 10 years ago, but what you should learn from this is that

58
00:03:29,430 –> 00:03:33,129
they are waking up. It was stones yesterday, Molotov cocktails

59
00:03:33,190 –> 00:03:36,915
today. It will be hand grenades tomorrow and wherever else is available the next

60
00:03:36,915 –> 00:03:40,755
day. The seriousness of the situation must be faced up Tom, you should not feel

61
00:03:40,755 –> 00:03:44,340
that I am inciting someone to violence. I’m

62
00:03:44,340 –> 00:03:47,780
only warning of the powder kegs situation. You could take it or leave it. If

63
00:03:47,780 –> 00:03:50,905
you take the warning, perhaps you can still save yourself. But if you ignore it

64
00:03:50,905 –> 00:03:54,745
or ridicule it, well, death is already at your doorstep. There are

65
00:03:54,745 –> 00:03:58,424
22,000,000 African Americans who are ready to fight for independence right

66
00:03:58,424 –> 00:04:01,870
here. When I say fight for independence right here, I don’t mean any nonviolent

67
00:04:02,090 –> 00:04:05,790
fight or turn the other cheek fight. Those days are gone. Those days are over.

68
00:04:07,085 –> 00:04:10,925
George if George Washington didn’t get independence for his country nonviolently, and if

69
00:04:10,925 –> 00:04:14,400
Patrick Henry didn’t come up with a nonviolent statement, and you taught me to look

70
00:04:14,400 –> 00:04:17,760
upon them as patriots and heroes, then it’s time for you to realize that I

71
00:04:17,760 –> 00:04:19,779
have studied your books well.

72
00:04:21,245 –> 00:04:24,685
1964 will see the Negro revolt evolve and merge into the

73
00:04:24,685 –> 00:04:28,045
worldwide black revolution that has been taking place on this earth since

74
00:04:28,045 –> 00:04:31,460
1945. The so called revolt will be come a real

75
00:04:31,600 –> 00:04:35,280
black revolution. Now the black revolution has been

76
00:04:35,280 –> 00:04:38,895
taking place in Africa and Asia and Latin America. When I say black, I mean

77
00:04:38,895 –> 00:04:42,735
nonwhite, black, brown, red, or yellow. Our brothers and sisters in Asia who were

78
00:04:42,735 –> 00:04:46,495
colonized by the Europeans, our brothers and sisters in Africa who were colonized by the

79
00:04:46,495 –> 00:04:50,340
Europeans. And in Latin America, the peasants who were colonized by the Europeans have

80
00:04:50,340 –> 00:04:54,180
been involved in a struggle since 1945 to get the colonialists or

81
00:04:54,180 –> 00:04:57,675
the colonizing powers, the Europeans off their land

82
00:04:57,895 –> 00:05:01,735
out of their country. This is a real

83
00:05:01,735 –> 00:05:04,955
revolution. Revolution is always based on land.

84
00:05:05,430 –> 00:05:08,570
Revolution is never based on begging somebody for an integrated cup of coffee.

85
00:05:08,870 –> 00:05:12,630
Revolutions are never fought by turning the other cheek. Revolutions are never based upon love

86
00:05:12,630 –> 00:05:16,185
your enemy and pray for those who spitefully use you. And revolutions are never

87
00:05:16,185 –> 00:05:19,945
waged seeing we shall overcome. Revolutions are based upon

88
00:05:19,945 –> 00:05:23,625
bloodshed. Revolutions are never compromising. Revolutions are never based upon

89
00:05:23,625 –> 00:05:27,250
negotiations. Revolutions are never based upon any kind of tokenism whatsoever.

90
00:05:27,630 –> 00:05:31,470
Revolutions are never even based upon that which is begging a corrupt society or corrupt

91
00:05:31,470 –> 00:05:34,414
system to accept us into it. Revolutions

92
00:05:35,034 –> 00:05:38,875
overturn systems. And there is no system on this

93
00:05:38,875 –> 00:05:42,680
earth who just proven itself more corrupt, more criminal than this system that in

94
00:05:42,680 –> 00:05:46,280
1964 still colonizes 22,000,000 African Americans still in

95
00:05:46,280 –> 00:05:49,500
slaves, 22,000,000 Afro Americans.

96
00:05:50,435 –> 00:05:53,955
There was no system more corrupt than a system that represents itself as the example

97
00:05:53,955 –> 00:05:57,795
of freedom, the example of democracy. I could go all over this earth telling other

98
00:05:57,795 –> 00:06:01,440
people how to straighten out their house when you have citizens of

99
00:06:01,440 –> 00:06:04,800
this country who have to use bullets if they want to

100
00:06:04,800 –> 00:06:06,740
cast a ballot.

101
00:06:12,125 –> 00:06:15,805
Malcolm x, by the way, x

102
00:06:15,805 –> 00:06:19,500
was the name that he chose. We’ll talk a little bit about

103
00:06:19,500 –> 00:06:21,985
that in a minute. Malcolm X born Malcolm

104
00:06:21,985 –> 00:06:25,440
literature, on May 19, 2025

105
00:06:26,805 –> 00:06:30,485
died February 21, 1965 was an American Muslim

106
00:06:30,485 –> 00:06:34,325
minister. And according to Wikipedia, anyway, a human

107
00:06:34,325 –> 00:06:37,600
rights activist. And he definitely

108
00:06:38,220 –> 00:06:41,980
was one of the most colorful figures of the black American

109
00:06:41,980 –> 00:06:44,800
civil rights movement in the fifties sixties.

110
00:06:46,544 –> 00:06:50,065
By the way, he was portrayed by Denzel Washington in a burning

111
00:06:50,065 –> 00:06:53,664
performance given under direction of Spike Lee in the 19

112
00:06:53,664 –> 00:06:57,380
nineties. Malcolm spent his adolescence living in a

113
00:06:57,380 –> 00:07:01,160
series of foster homes with relatives after his father’s death and his mother’s hospitalization.

114
00:07:02,485 –> 00:07:06,245
He committed various crimes being sentenced to 8 to 10 years in prison

115
00:07:06,245 –> 00:07:09,630
in 1946 for larceny and burglary. In

116
00:07:09,630 –> 00:07:13,310
prison, he joined the nation of Islam adopting the name Malcolm x to

117
00:07:13,310 –> 00:07:16,750
symbolize his unknown African ancestral surname while

118
00:07:16,750 –> 00:07:20,264
discarding the quote, white slave master name of Little.

119
00:07:21,605 –> 00:07:25,285
Malcolm x advocated black empowerment and a separation of black and white

120
00:07:25,285 –> 00:07:29,050
Americans and was very critical of Martin Luther King

121
00:07:29,050 –> 00:07:32,750
Junior and the mainstream civil rights movement for its emphasis on nonviolence,

122
00:07:32,970 –> 00:07:36,495
which you heard in that piece that I read and racial integration.

123
00:07:37,514 –> 00:07:41,275
By the way, if you live by the revolution, you die by

124
00:07:41,275 –> 00:07:44,300
it. And Malcolm X did indeed

125
00:07:45,240 –> 00:07:48,620
get assassinated on February 21, 1965.

126
00:07:51,165 –> 00:07:54,625
Allegedly, there’s still some murkiness on this

127
00:07:55,085 –> 00:07:58,465
by members of the Nation of Islam,

128
00:07:59,910 –> 00:08:03,670
some of Elijah Muhammad’s books. Even though Elijah Muhammad

129
00:08:03,670 –> 00:08:07,110
claimed all the way to the end of his life, he never laid a

130
00:08:07,110 –> 00:08:09,130
hand on Malcolm x.

131
00:08:11,275 –> 00:08:15,035
Well, that’s also really good rhetoric then, right, since he wasn’t

132
00:08:15,035 –> 00:08:18,415
ever accused of being one of the actual assassins. So,

133
00:08:19,530 –> 00:08:22,810
you know, as soon as I hear that as a lawyer, it makes me smile

134
00:08:22,810 –> 00:08:26,410
because I just say, well, that’s that’s actually well put. That doesn’t tell us much

135
00:08:26,410 –> 00:08:30,224
though other than that you weren’t in the room. You could send

136
00:08:30,224 –> 00:08:34,005
the people in the room, but you weren’t in the room. Okay. Okay.

137
00:08:34,625 –> 00:08:37,765
Not that I’m accusing him of having x killed. No.

138
00:08:38,289 –> 00:08:41,750
No. Not that I’m accusing him of that. No. Besides,

139
00:08:42,289 –> 00:08:46,130
we’re not here. Had him killed. Somebody had him killed. We’re not

140
00:08:46,130 –> 00:08:49,015
here to engage in slander. We’re here to, well,

141
00:08:50,595 –> 00:08:54,195
we’re here to talk about the impact of Malcolm X on black culture and politics

142
00:08:54,195 –> 00:08:57,990
in America. So let’s start there. I think there is

143
00:08:57,990 –> 00:09:00,250
a direct line from

144
00:09:01,910 –> 00:09:05,665
the not, not the intellectual leaders from there’s

145
00:09:05,665 –> 00:09:08,485
a direct line from Marcus Garvey

146
00:09:09,345 –> 00:09:13,105
to Malcolm X to Black Lives Matters, particularly the the shock troops

147
00:09:13,105 –> 00:09:16,839
of Black Lives Matter, of BLM, the ones who were

148
00:09:16,839 –> 00:09:19,020
burning down cities, you know, a few years ago.

149
00:09:21,000 –> 00:09:21,899
And so

150
00:09:25,165 –> 00:09:28,685
what do we do with Malcolm X? What do we do with Book? How do

151
00:09:28,685 –> 00:09:32,125
how do we I I I and I’ve hesitated to kind of touch on him

152
00:09:32,125 –> 00:09:35,200
on this show because he is so incendiary,

153
00:09:36,140 –> 00:09:39,899
but what the heck? Why not? Writers. So what do you what do you think

154
00:09:39,899 –> 00:09:42,835
about what we think about Malcolm X? What do you think about Malcolm X? What

155
00:09:42,835 –> 00:09:46,355
how should leaders think about Malcolm X? Because the he is taught in

156
00:09:46,355 –> 00:09:50,000
school as a revolutionary leader that was

157
00:09:50,000 –> 00:09:51,780
full of revolutionary Elon.

158
00:09:54,640 –> 00:09:58,260
And they sort of skip over the parts about the violence

159
00:09:58,720 –> 00:10:02,245
and the calls to action that he was

160
00:10:02,245 –> 00:10:05,845
making, and I I think that’s rather convenient. At least, that’s that’s my

161
00:10:05,845 –> 00:10:08,640
thinking. Yeah. Joint meetings with Nazis.

162
00:10:10,220 –> 00:10:13,740
Yep. They don’t mention that. They don’t mention any of that. His

163
00:10:13,740 –> 00:10:17,495
penchant for, his snack his favorite snack food, of course,

164
00:10:17,495 –> 00:10:21,255
it was crackers. Right? Mhmm. So Right. His whole pension for that whole thing.

165
00:10:21,255 –> 00:10:25,095
Right. Anyway, well, so I I’m glad you did because I think

166
00:10:25,095 –> 00:10:28,930
it’s inevitable. I mean, from my perspective, he was like

167
00:10:28,930 –> 00:10:32,610
gasoline on a fire or nitroglycerin into an engine for the civil

168
00:10:32,610 –> 00:10:36,045
rights movement. He showed up with a very in a very different spirit with a

169
00:10:36,045 –> 00:10:39,505
very different energy, with some high claims

170
00:10:39,964 –> 00:10:43,665
and with brilliant rhetoric that he used to expose

171
00:10:43,725 –> 00:10:47,240
some of the basic propositions, at work in

172
00:10:47,240 –> 00:10:49,340
America and some of the fundamental

173
00:10:52,505 –> 00:10:55,485
his word would be hypocrisy, right, or chicanery,

174
00:10:56,505 –> 00:11:00,045
that was used to deprive so many black men and women

175
00:11:00,520 –> 00:11:04,280
of the exercise of their rights. Mhmm. Right?

176
00:11:04,280 –> 00:11:08,085
And so I think if America were a system that just

177
00:11:08,085 –> 00:11:11,845
oppressed black people and didn’t have any rhetoric about equality and justice and

178
00:11:11,845 –> 00:11:15,685
freedom and liberty, his approach would be similar, but there would be

179
00:11:15,685 –> 00:11:19,310
less rhetoric and more shooting. Mhmm. We need to get free.

180
00:11:19,450 –> 00:11:22,830
This is not a free system, so we’re gonna overthrow it. You know? The challenge

181
00:11:23,050 –> 00:11:25,710
part of the the challenge for him

182
00:11:27,045 –> 00:11:30,405
was being able to use a system that is being

183
00:11:30,405 –> 00:11:34,165
misused against, himself and against

184
00:11:34,165 –> 00:11:37,660
our people to then get it to perform

185
00:11:37,720 –> 00:11:41,400
better. You know? One of the lines he said in more than one speech

186
00:11:41,400 –> 00:11:45,165
was directed at white members of the audience where he said, book, If

187
00:11:45,165 –> 00:11:48,765
this makes you uncomfortable, fine. You go tell the mayor to stop sending police

188
00:11:48,765 –> 00:11:52,605
dogs, you know, attacking, you know, black protesters, and then it

189
00:11:52,605 –> 00:11:56,029
will stop. And then you don’t have to feel uncomfortable. And if you don’t, your

190
00:11:56,029 –> 00:11:58,750
kids will grow up and look at you and point a finger and say shame.

191
00:11:58,750 –> 00:12:00,930
And I I think it’s actually a very valid point,

192
00:12:02,125 –> 00:12:05,345
where, you know, there’s an illicit permission

193
00:12:05,805 –> 00:12:09,485
from the white majority for what went

194
00:12:09,485 –> 00:12:13,100
on 40s 50s 60s to to for

195
00:12:13,100 –> 00:12:15,839
that to continue that had to be there.

196
00:12:16,779 –> 00:12:20,495
You know if we back up, you know, almost 200 years before

197
00:12:20,495 –> 00:12:24,195
that, right Mhmm. The illicit permission

198
00:12:24,334 –> 00:12:27,720
was withdrawn. And the majority, you know, in

199
00:12:27,720 –> 00:12:31,180
America, the majority of the colonists supported a revolution against

200
00:12:31,480 –> 00:12:35,295
the oppressive powers of the British parliament, in the name of

201
00:12:35,295 –> 00:12:39,075
King George the 3rd. So, you know, that that elicit

202
00:12:39,135 –> 00:12:42,515
that that not elicit, that tacit permission.

203
00:12:43,149 –> 00:12:46,990
Okay? That unspoken, that silent majority’s willingness

204
00:12:46,990 –> 00:12:49,889
or unwillingness to to stand up and take action,

205
00:12:50,750 –> 00:12:54,145
is very powerful. You know, it’s very powerful. And it also will help

206
00:12:54,145 –> 00:12:57,825
address, you know, a later point that you’re gonna ask that I won’t raise

207
00:12:57,825 –> 00:13:01,530
now because we’re gonna address it later. But so, you know, I think

208
00:13:01,610 –> 00:13:05,370
throwing gasoline on a fire, putting nitrous in an engine, this is what he

209
00:13:05,370 –> 00:13:08,970
brought. And, of course, another way of putting it is he’s Archie

210
00:13:08,970 –> 00:13:12,084
Guevara. Right? He’s the guy in the t shirts. You don’t have you don’t have

211
00:13:12,084 –> 00:13:15,685
King on a t shirt. You don’t. Okay? With the fist and everything. Gets

212
00:13:15,685 –> 00:13:19,440
this and the pendants. And, I mean, I used to have, like, an African pendant.

213
00:13:19,440 –> 00:13:23,199
Like, the nineties was big. It was like the seventies, late sixties readers. So I

214
00:13:23,199 –> 00:13:26,785
remember wearing that. The dashiki, I remember when I got one in middle

215
00:13:26,785 –> 00:13:30,325
school. My parents gave me one. I remember that. You know?

216
00:13:31,345 –> 00:13:34,865
And I think that was slightly before that movie came out. And it’s, yeah,

217
00:13:34,865 –> 00:13:37,810
it’s definitely one of my favorite performances by Denzel Washington.

218
00:13:38,750 –> 00:13:42,589
I would take that over training day 7 days out of 7. Yeah. Training day

219
00:13:42,589 –> 00:13:46,395
was the movie that Denzel promised us he wasn’t gonna do. Like, that’s the movie

220
00:13:46,395 –> 00:13:50,175
he that’s exactly the movie he promised. That’s that and that’s where I I realized

221
00:13:50,795 –> 00:13:54,460
Denzel, well, Denzel’s really just an

222
00:13:54,460 –> 00:13:56,460
actor. Like, at the end of the day, like, we have to we have to

223
00:13:56,620 –> 00:14:00,220
I’m not taking anything away from his acting. Mhmm. But at the end of the

224
00:14:00,220 –> 00:14:03,525
day, he is an actor. So he’s not

225
00:14:04,065 –> 00:14:07,845
he’s not a Well, he’s not a revolutionary. We know that. Not a revolutionary.

226
00:14:07,905 –> 00:14:11,100
No. He’s not. No. He’s not a revolutionary. Not a revolutionary. Yeah. I think my

227
00:14:11,100 –> 00:14:14,860
next performance would be the one, where he did Steven Biko. I

228
00:14:14,860 –> 00:14:18,495
didn’t know who Biko was. No. And we watched that in school, and

229
00:14:18,495 –> 00:14:21,935
it was very moving. He did an excellent job, an excellent

230
00:14:21,935 –> 00:14:24,915
job. And,

231
00:14:26,405 –> 00:14:29,470
he he helped dramatize, you know,

232
00:14:31,850 –> 00:14:35,630
another system where racial oppression had dog’s teeth

233
00:14:35,690 –> 00:14:39,055
and not rubber bullets. And so, you know,

234
00:14:39,754 –> 00:14:42,555
Well, and this is this is the thing with to it as they should. So

235
00:14:42,714 –> 00:14:46,175
Well, this is the thing with Malcolm x. So Malcolm x

236
00:14:47,650 –> 00:14:51,110
is assassinated in 1965. Right?

237
00:14:52,530 –> 00:14:56,135
You have the riots of the late sixties, then

238
00:14:56,135 –> 00:14:58,795
you have the the the

239
00:14:59,975 –> 00:15:03,649
the black Panther party and Eldridge leaders and

240
00:15:03,649 –> 00:15:07,350
Soul on Ice and all them boys come out in the seventies.

241
00:15:07,649 –> 00:15:11,170
Mhmm. And then a weird thing happens, and I wanna talk about this a little

242
00:15:11,170 –> 00:15:14,515
bit early. But a weird thing happens where

243
00:15:15,214 –> 00:15:19,055
black culture splits between and I’m

244
00:15:19,055 –> 00:15:22,550
gonna use 2 different types here. It’s split split splits between

245
00:15:22,930 –> 00:15:26,770
Bill Cosby before we knew who he was and the Claire Huxtable line of the

246
00:15:26,770 –> 00:15:30,505
black of black book. And and then and then you get into

247
00:15:30,665 –> 00:15:34,505
and then it splits between that and the more lower class

248
00:15:34,505 –> 00:15:38,140
rap culture, hip hop culture that eventually winds up, washes up on the

249
00:15:38,140 –> 00:15:41,820
shores of NWA and all those boys in the nineties. Right?

250
00:15:41,820 –> 00:15:45,605
New Jack Libby, NWA, boys in the hood, all of that. Right? And

251
00:15:45,605 –> 00:15:49,445
black culture visibly splits in America in a post

252
00:15:49,445 –> 00:15:50,825
Malcolm x world.

253
00:15:54,180 –> 00:15:57,080
My question here is, and I’m gonna ask you a what if,

254
00:15:57,940 –> 00:16:01,300
would black culture have split if Malcolm x hadn’t gotten

255
00:16:01,300 –> 00:16:01,800
assassinated?

256
00:16:06,805 –> 00:16:10,565
Because it did visibly split. But it’s it’s

257
00:16:10,725 –> 00:16:14,090
to me, it’s tough because

258
00:16:14,390 –> 00:16:17,750
and, I mean, it’s almost a cobble. There’s just Tom many variables, but here’s what

259
00:16:17,750 –> 00:16:21,350
I mean. Right. Yeah. Would he have succeeded in his

260
00:16:21,350 –> 00:16:24,705
revolution? Would he have succeeded in forming some kind

261
00:16:24,705 –> 00:16:28,085
of separatist black community of

262
00:16:28,305 –> 00:16:31,445
actual size somewhere in the United States? You know?

263
00:16:32,930 –> 00:16:36,530
Like, a version of the free state of Jones. Right? Something like that. And there’s

264
00:16:36,530 –> 00:16:40,050
actually a book I wanna find that talks about various of those

265
00:16:40,050 –> 00:16:43,755
separatist movements because there’s more than 1. And I found that I find it I

266
00:16:43,755 –> 00:16:47,258
found it fascinating just learning that because I I didn’t know that. But, anyway, so

267
00:16:47,258 –> 00:16:51,010
would would would they have succeeded? You know? And and who knows where it would

268
00:16:51,010 –> 00:16:54,790
have been because I mean, he was certainly an urban creature. Correct?

269
00:16:55,137 –> 00:16:58,390
Writers. You know, he’s not Not just he’s not out farming.

270
00:16:58,845 –> 00:17:02,144
It’s just, you know, I just don’t

271
00:17:02,925 –> 00:17:06,280
I get no sense from reading his words that he had much of an

272
00:17:06,440 –> 00:17:10,040
understanding despite what he said about Texas and Mississippi of how life is in Texas

273
00:17:10,040 –> 00:17:13,880
and Mississippi for blacks to live in rural areas. Therefore, it’s hard for

274
00:17:13,880 –> 00:17:17,375
me to picture, you know, his revolution producing something

275
00:17:18,075 –> 00:17:21,915
like separatism, excuse me, within, you know,

276
00:17:21,915 –> 00:17:25,500
urban spaces, certainly back east, right, rather than a

277
00:17:25,500 –> 00:17:28,820
colony in the desert, like, where I am, something like that. But, you know, that’s

278
00:17:28,940 –> 00:17:32,485
so that’s one of the questions. Would it have been successful? Okay. Assume it

279
00:17:32,485 –> 00:17:36,325
would, but on what scale? And and we can’t tell what scale. Then,

280
00:17:38,005 –> 00:17:41,740
you know, are we also assuming are we assuming he survives, but king still

281
00:17:41,740 –> 00:17:45,500
dies? Right? Kennedy still dies. And so that means

282
00:17:45,500 –> 00:17:49,245
that, you know, this great because, I

283
00:17:49,245 –> 00:17:52,625
mean, that was a decade it’s a decade where our fathers were killed.

284
00:17:52,685 –> 00:17:56,045
Okay? 2 Kennedy’s king and x slain.

285
00:17:56,045 –> 00:17:59,540
Okay? Because the changes they were pushing for,

286
00:18:00,560 –> 00:18:04,375
people didn’t wanna have, and people were willing to kill them and

287
00:18:04,375 –> 00:18:07,975
did. And so those changes didn’t happen followed

288
00:18:07,975 –> 00:18:11,595
by, you know, drug malaise filled seventies

289
00:18:11,815 –> 00:18:15,429
disillusionment. Right? And so it’s gonna get to a point that you still

290
00:18:15,429 –> 00:18:19,270
haven’t readers, technically, but it’s coming because I It’s coming. Readers in

291
00:18:19,270 –> 00:18:23,075
the script. But it it’s, you know, drugs being part of the answer to that

292
00:18:23,075 –> 00:18:26,674
question. So it’s just like, you know, would

293
00:18:26,674 –> 00:18:30,274
that would that split, that shift, you know, still have happened?

294
00:18:30,274 –> 00:18:33,840
Probably. I mean, going back to

295
00:18:33,840 –> 00:18:37,680
Invisible Man. Right? The Well well, what’s weird is that yeah. Go ahead.

296
00:18:37,680 –> 00:18:41,415
Well, what’s weird is Eldridge Cleaver Mhmm. Turned

297
00:18:41,415 –> 00:18:45,135
out to be a republican Uh-huh. After he got out of, like

298
00:18:45,255 –> 00:18:48,615
after he after he went through all the stuff with the Black Panthers, and I

299
00:18:48,615 –> 00:18:51,160
I think I think, if I remember correctly, he went to prison,

300
00:18:52,280 –> 00:18:56,120
You know? And he’s a republican now. Mhmm. Like, I don’t I

301
00:18:56,120 –> 00:18:59,580
don’t think people have a concept of, like, how that occurs.

302
00:19:00,615 –> 00:19:04,455
Mhmm. And it occurs, I think, because of well,

303
00:19:04,455 –> 00:19:07,975
it’s what you it’s what you said, and we’re gonna talk about this. This is

304
00:19:07,975 –> 00:19:10,779
the it’s sort of the after we talk a little bit about his his essay

305
00:19:10,779 –> 00:19:13,340
on the ballot of the or not essay, but his speech, the ballot or the

306
00:19:13,340 –> 00:19:17,179
bullet. Or tie that in. But we’re 50

307
00:19:17,179 –> 00:19:20,945
years on from getting everything we legally, we’ve

308
00:19:20,945 –> 00:19:24,705
gotten everything we ask for Mhmm. As as quote,

309
00:19:24,705 –> 00:19:27,765
unquote black people. We’ve gotten everything we ask for. Matter of fact,

310
00:19:29,059 –> 00:19:32,660
we got it in a way that to

311
00:19:32,660 –> 00:19:36,295
paraphrase from Martin Luther King Junior, who’s paraphrasing from the book of

312
00:19:36,295 –> 00:19:39,975
Isaiah, justice rolled down the, you know, rolled down the, the

313
00:19:39,975 –> 00:19:42,315
mountain side like water. Right? Mhmm.

314
00:19:44,660 –> 00:19:47,800
I don’t know that Malcolm x would have known what to do with that.

315
00:19:48,340 –> 00:19:52,020
Mhmm. Revolutionaries almost never know what to do once

316
00:19:52,020 –> 00:19:55,725
they win. Lenin was the only revolutionary. Lenin

317
00:19:55,725 –> 00:19:59,505
and Mao too. Lenin and Mao were the 2 revolutionaries of the 20th century

318
00:19:59,645 –> 00:20:03,320
who knew exactly what they wanted to do after they won the

319
00:20:03,320 –> 00:20:06,920
revolution. Whole Tom, they went there

320
00:20:06,920 –> 00:20:10,035
too. He was, like, number 3. Okay.

321
00:20:11,455 –> 00:20:14,255
Everybody else seems to have caught by the the whole, like, a bomb. Min Ho

322
00:20:14,255 –> 00:20:18,015
Chi Minh knew what to do Yeah. And arguably actually did that better

323
00:20:18,015 –> 00:20:21,620
than the other people you named. Yeah. His system is still going.

324
00:20:23,120 –> 00:20:26,740
His system is still going. You know? Miles is fundamentally

325
00:20:27,040 –> 00:20:30,495
modified, still oppressive, but fundamentally

326
00:20:30,635 –> 00:20:34,155
modified, because of the because

327
00:20:34,155 –> 00:20:37,375
Deng could read the writing on the wall. Right? So and did.

328
00:20:38,300 –> 00:20:41,420
But yeah. I so I know what you Jesan. But so the examples I thought

329
00:20:41,420 –> 00:20:44,940
of, though, revolutionaries who actually did have a plan.

330
00:20:44,940 –> 00:20:48,765
Right? Yeah. And so I guess some of this, though, will

331
00:20:48,765 –> 00:20:52,530
relate to, well, is it a real revolution or not?

332
00:20:52,770 –> 00:20:56,390
Okay? Because as you just quoted x saying,

333
00:20:56,530 –> 00:21:00,210
right, and I’m gonna find the actual full quote

334
00:21:00,210 –> 00:21:04,035
because I circled it. Yep. Revolutions overturn

335
00:21:04,035 –> 00:21:07,815
systems. Okay? Revolutions overturn

336
00:21:07,875 –> 00:21:11,590
systems. Okay? And so if we wanted to be technical

337
00:21:11,590 –> 00:21:15,430
or narrow, a revolution is successful just by

338
00:21:15,430 –> 00:21:19,050
overturning a system. So if you burn it down, great.

339
00:21:19,235 –> 00:21:23,015
You know, that may actually not technically mean you overturn the system. Okay?

340
00:21:23,475 –> 00:21:26,195
And certainly in a digital age, we know it wouldn’t be. You destroy all the

341
00:21:26,195 –> 00:21:29,850
banks in America. Well, the money isn’t really the cash. So

342
00:21:30,070 –> 00:21:33,830
they’re okay. You know? Right. You’d have to destroy a whole lot of servers and

343
00:21:33,830 –> 00:21:36,410
other things to actually damage the banking system,

344
00:21:37,565 –> 00:21:40,304
And that would just be temporary anyway. So,

345
00:21:41,485 –> 00:21:44,145
they overturned systems. Right? But

346
00:21:45,389 –> 00:21:48,990
a true revolution overturns one system and replaces it with

347
00:21:48,990 –> 00:21:51,889
another. Right? And so,

348
00:21:52,785 –> 00:21:56,405
there are revolutionaries who are prepared for that next step.

349
00:21:56,785 –> 00:22:00,510
It’s just ironically or not, where I would expect to

350
00:22:00,510 –> 00:22:03,730
find them is functioning well within institutions

351
00:22:04,510 –> 00:22:08,270
that are primed to then step in as the new

352
00:22:08,270 –> 00:22:12,075
model and as the new actual institution. So the 2 who came

353
00:22:12,075 –> 00:22:15,595
to mind, Thomas Jefferson came to mind first. He came to mind, you know, super

354
00:22:15,595 –> 00:22:19,390
early, and then Hamilton came to mind this morning where I said, oh, okay. These

355
00:22:19,390 –> 00:22:23,070
were people who one fought and one governed during

356
00:22:23,070 –> 00:22:26,850
our, you know, great American Revolution, which contrary to

357
00:22:27,070 –> 00:22:30,865
what x actually said, they’re black people who

358
00:22:30,865 –> 00:22:34,545
fought in that revolution, and, you

359
00:22:34,545 –> 00:22:37,925
know, very many thousands. Okay?

360
00:22:38,750 –> 00:22:42,370
Because that precious germ seed

361
00:22:43,310 –> 00:22:45,010
of freedom meant something,

362
00:22:50,365 –> 00:22:53,025
okay, meant something to

363
00:22:54,605 –> 00:22:57,840
meant something to them that they were willing to put their lives online. So I’m

364
00:22:57,840 –> 00:23:01,600
not talking about people who were enslaved, who were forced to

365
00:23:01,600 –> 00:23:05,059
do fighting for their masters. I’m not talking about that. And there wasn’t

366
00:23:05,554 –> 00:23:08,195
nearly as much of that. My understanding is it wasn’t nearly as much of that

367
00:23:08,195 –> 00:23:11,575
during revolutionary wars. There would have been during the civil war. Mhmm. Okay.

368
00:23:12,115 –> 00:23:15,160
Or and as then as did occur during the civil war.

369
00:23:16,280 –> 00:23:19,100
With that, we’re gonna go back to the book. Back to,

370
00:23:20,600 –> 00:23:24,280
the speeches, selected speeches and statements of

371
00:23:24,280 –> 00:23:28,125
Malcolm x. So, gonna pick up

372
00:23:28,125 –> 00:23:31,725
from another one of his speeches that sort of backs up

373
00:23:31,725 –> 00:23:35,200
what, DiRollo and I have been talking about.

374
00:23:35,580 –> 00:23:39,179
And I’m going to pick certain areas here to

375
00:23:39,179 –> 00:23:42,784
read because the the whole thing Sorrells sorta hangs

376
00:23:42,784 –> 00:23:46,625
together, and it is a it is a long speech. It’s called the ballot

377
00:23:46,625 –> 00:23:49,125
or the bullet. And this speech was delivered,

378
00:23:50,560 –> 00:23:54,320
by Malcolm x, to let me go ahead

379
00:23:54,320 –> 00:23:57,700
and pull this up. 10 days

380
00:23:57,934 –> 00:24:01,535
after Malcolm x’s declaration of independence, the

381
00:24:01,615 –> 00:24:05,155
he he delivered, a, a speech, right,

382
00:24:05,375 –> 00:24:09,170
in Cleveland, given at the Quarry Methodist Church on

383
00:24:09,170 –> 00:24:12,850
April 3, 1964. And, Malcolm

384
00:24:12,850 –> 00:24:16,304
x in the ballot or the bullet here presented many of the themes that he

385
00:24:16,304 –> 00:24:19,044
had been developing as he had been,

386
00:24:21,985 –> 00:24:25,730
holding and speechifying at public rallies

387
00:24:25,870 –> 00:24:29,250
in Harlem. And, he was forming the ideology

388
00:24:29,710 –> 00:24:33,085
of a new movement. And in the ballot or the bullet, he lays

389
00:24:33,085 –> 00:24:36,765
out some of the ideas in this new

390
00:24:36,765 –> 00:24:40,385
ideology. By the way, an ideology different

391
00:24:40,779 –> 00:24:44,460
than that of the NAACP, and ideology different

392
00:24:44,460 –> 00:24:47,899
than that of, of core, which,

393
00:24:48,835 –> 00:24:52,535
oh, gosh. And and an ideology that really

394
00:24:53,075 –> 00:24:56,580
began his move towards

395
00:24:56,799 –> 00:25:00,500
black nationalism and black separatism. And

396
00:25:01,760 –> 00:25:05,495
I quote from the ballot or the bullet. It was a black man’s vote that

397
00:25:05,495 –> 00:25:09,255
put the president administration in Washington DC. Your vote, your

398
00:25:09,255 –> 00:25:12,899
dumb vote, your ignorant vote, your wasted vote put in an administration in

399
00:25:12,899 –> 00:25:16,520
Washington DC that has seen fit to pass every kind of legislation imaginable,

400
00:25:16,820 –> 00:25:19,799
saving you until last and filibustering on top of that.

401
00:25:20,635 –> 00:25:24,235
And your and my leaders have the audacity to run around clapping their hands and

402
00:25:24,235 –> 00:25:27,900
talk about how much progress we’re making and what a good president we have. If

403
00:25:27,900 –> 00:25:31,500
he wasn’t good at Texas, he sure can’t be good at Washington DC because Texas

404
00:25:31,500 –> 00:25:35,245
is a Lynch state. It is in the same breath as Mississippi. No different. Only

405
00:25:35,245 –> 00:25:38,365
the lynch you in Texas with a Texas accent and lynch you in Mississippi with

406
00:25:38,365 –> 00:25:42,125
a Mississippi accent. And these Negro leaders have the audacity to go

407
00:25:42,125 –> 00:25:45,640
and have some coffee in the White House with a Texan, a southern cracker. That’s

408
00:25:45,640 –> 00:25:48,679
all he is. And they come out and tell you and me that he’s gonna

409
00:25:48,679 –> 00:25:51,240
be better for us because he’s from the south since he knows how to deal

410
00:25:51,240 –> 00:25:54,995
with the southerners. What kind of logic is that? Let Eastland be president.

411
00:25:54,995 –> 00:25:57,635
He’s from the south too. He should be better able to deal with them than

412
00:25:57,635 –> 00:26:01,130
Johnson. By the way, pause. The, the

413
00:26:01,130 –> 00:26:04,750
president he’s talking about is Lyndon Johnson. This is following the assassination

414
00:26:05,049 –> 00:26:08,830
of, of, Robert I’m sorry. Robert,

415
00:26:09,404 –> 00:26:13,024
John f Kennedy in November of 1963.

416
00:26:15,325 –> 00:26:19,110
Back to the book, or back to the speech. In this president administration, and

417
00:26:19,110 –> 00:26:22,550
they have in the house of representatives, 257 Democrats to

418
00:26:22,550 –> 00:26:26,294
only 177 Republicans. They control 2

419
00:26:26,294 –> 00:26:29,174
thirds of the house vote. Why can’t they pass something that will help you and

420
00:26:29,174 –> 00:26:32,774
me? In the senate, there are 67 senators who are the democratic

421
00:26:32,774 –> 00:26:36,540
party. Only 33 of them were Republicans. Why the democrats have got the

422
00:26:36,540 –> 00:26:39,260
government sewn up, and you’re the one who sewn it up for them. And what

423
00:26:39,260 –> 00:26:42,460
have they given you for it? 4 years in office and just now getting around

424
00:26:42,460 –> 00:26:45,794
to some civil rights legislation. Just now after everything else is gone, out of the

425
00:26:45,794 –> 00:26:48,835
way, they’re gonna sit down now and play with you all summer long, disable giant

426
00:26:48,835 –> 00:26:52,550
con game that they call filibuster. All those are in cahoots

427
00:26:52,550 –> 00:26:56,390
together. Don’t you ever think they’re not in cahoots together? For

428
00:26:56,390 –> 00:26:59,270
the man that is heading the civil rights filibuster is a man from Georgia named

429
00:26:59,270 –> 00:27:03,075
Richard Russell. When Johnson became president, the first man he asked for

430
00:27:03,075 –> 00:27:05,955
when he got back to Washington DC was Dickie. That’s how tight they are. That’s

431
00:27:05,955 –> 00:27:09,575
his boy. That’s his pal. That’s his buddy, but they’re playing that old con game.

432
00:27:09,789 –> 00:27:12,510
What does it make you believe he’s for you? And he’s gotta fix when the

433
00:27:12,510 –> 00:27:15,490
other one is so tight against you so you never have to keep his promise.

434
00:27:15,549 –> 00:27:19,365
So he never has to keep his promise. So it’s time in 1964 to

435
00:27:19,365 –> 00:27:22,404
wake up. And when you see them coming up with that kind of conspiracy, let

436
00:27:22,404 –> 00:27:25,284
them know your eyes are open and let them know you got something else that’s

437
00:27:25,284 –> 00:27:28,890
wide open too. It’s got to be the ballot or the bullet. The ballot or

438
00:27:28,890 –> 00:27:32,250
the bullet. If you’re gonna use gonna be afraid to use an expression like that,

439
00:27:32,250 –> 00:27:34,995
you should get out of the country. You should get back into the cotton patch.

440
00:27:34,995 –> 00:27:38,835
You should get back in the alley. They get all the Negro vote, and

441
00:27:38,835 –> 00:27:42,610
after they get it, the Negro gets nothing in return. And all they did

442
00:27:42,610 –> 00:27:45,809
when they got to Washington was give a few big Negroes big jobs. Those big

443
00:27:45,809 –> 00:27:49,570
Negroes didn’t need big jobs. They already had jobs. That’s camouflage. That’s trickery.

444
00:27:49,570 –> 00:27:53,294
That’s treachery. Window dressing. I’m not trying to knock out the Democrats for

445
00:27:53,294 –> 00:27:56,735
the Republicans. We’ll get to them in a minute, but it is true. You put

446
00:27:56,735 –> 00:27:59,394
a Democrat first, and the Democrats put you last.

447
00:28:00,270 –> 00:28:03,310
Look. Look at the way it is with the alibis they use as they control

448
00:28:03,310 –> 00:28:06,270
congress and the senate. What alibi do they use when you and I ask, well,

449
00:28:06,270 –> 00:28:09,705
what are you gonna do to keep your promise? They blame the Dixiecrats. What is

450
00:28:09,705 –> 00:28:13,545
a Dixiecrat? A Democrat. A Dixiecrats is nothing but a Democrat in

451
00:28:13,545 –> 00:28:16,840
disguise. The titular head of the Democrats is also the head of the Dixiecrats because

452
00:28:16,840 –> 00:28:20,679
the Dixiecrats are part of the democratic party. The democrats have never kicked

453
00:28:20,679 –> 00:28:24,380
the Dixiecrats out of the party. The Dixiecrats bolted themselves once,

454
00:28:24,520 –> 00:28:27,965
but the democrats did put them out. Imagine these low down southern

455
00:28:27,965 –> 00:28:31,485
segregationists put the northern Democrats down. But the northern Democrats are gonna put the

456
00:28:31,485 –> 00:28:35,120
Dixiecrats down. Now no. Look at that thing the way it is. They have got

457
00:28:35,120 –> 00:28:37,840
a con game going on, a political con game, and you and I are in

458
00:28:37,840 –> 00:28:40,799
the middle. It’s time for you and me to wake up and start looking at

459
00:28:40,799 –> 00:28:43,775
like what it is and trying to understand it like it is, and then we

460
00:28:43,775 –> 00:28:47,455
could deal with it like it is. Now I

461
00:28:47,455 –> 00:28:50,355
wanna move forward a little bit in the ballot and the bullet.

462
00:28:51,935 –> 00:28:55,760
He says, I say again, I’m not anti

463
00:28:55,760 –> 00:28:59,600
democrat. I’m not anti republican. I’m not anti anything. I’m just

464
00:28:59,600 –> 00:29:03,045
questioning this sincerity some of the strategies that they’ve been using on our people by

465
00:29:03,045 –> 00:29:06,725
promising them promises they don’t intend to keep. When you keep the democrats in power,

466
00:29:06,725 –> 00:29:10,450
you keep the dixiecrats in power. I doubt that my good brother Lomax will deny

467
00:29:10,450 –> 00:29:14,130
that. A vote for a democrat is a vote for a Dixiecrat. That’s why in

468
00:29:14,130 –> 00:29:17,810
1964, it’s time now for you and me to become more politically mature and

469
00:29:17,810 –> 00:29:21,294
realize what ballot is for, what we’re supposed to get when we cast a ballot.

470
00:29:21,294 –> 00:29:23,615
And then if we don’t cast a ballot, it’s going to end up in a

471
00:29:23,615 –> 00:29:26,914
situation where we’re going to have to cast a bullet. It’s either a ballot

472
00:29:27,215 –> 00:29:28,230
or a bullet.

473
00:29:37,525 –> 00:29:39,785
It’s either a ballot or a bullet

474
00:29:41,765 –> 00:29:45,145
in reading that speech from Malcolm X.

475
00:29:47,330 –> 00:29:51,170
I, I thought the more

476
00:29:51,170 –> 00:29:53,990
things change, the more they remain regrettably the same.

477
00:29:54,615 –> 00:29:57,835
Mhmm. I could hear these words coming out of.

478
00:29:59,095 –> 00:30:02,615
Well, I could hear these words coming out of some black lives matter

479
00:30:02,615 –> 00:30:05,200
activist gesticulating on Instagram.

480
00:30:09,179 –> 00:30:12,975
But what Malcolm X didn’t get because he didn’t fundamentally

481
00:30:13,355 –> 00:30:16,655
understand, and he was playing his own game of centralization,

482
00:30:18,395 –> 00:30:21,929
what he didn’t understand was that all politics are local, or maybe he

483
00:30:21,929 –> 00:30:25,549
did understand that. I I don’t know. Even

484
00:30:25,610 –> 00:30:29,289
Washington DC politics are local, which is something we don’t

485
00:30:29,289 –> 00:30:33,135
understand in our era. And we actually saw this and explored this

486
00:30:33,135 –> 00:30:36,595
a little bit on this podcast when we read

487
00:30:36,895 –> 00:30:40,690
the letters or the the essay by Theodore Roosevelt

488
00:30:41,230 –> 00:30:44,590
talking about how when he was in Albany, as a

489
00:30:44,590 –> 00:30:48,404
senator, back in the early part of

490
00:30:48,404 –> 00:30:52,184
the 20th century, and people would come to him giving him a critique

491
00:30:52,245 –> 00:30:55,940
or asking him about a bill. They would come to him

492
00:30:55,940 –> 00:30:59,539
in a way that didn’t respect what he did as a

493
00:30:59,539 –> 00:31:03,295
politician. The trends that

494
00:31:03,295 –> 00:31:06,515
began at the end of the civil war and the collapse of reconstruction

495
00:31:06,815 –> 00:31:10,575
continue through to today, wherein black Americans too often

496
00:31:10,575 –> 00:31:14,380
look to the ballot and political power to solve cultural issues,

497
00:31:15,800 –> 00:31:19,524
which is exactly what Malcolm x, I think, was

498
00:31:19,524 –> 00:31:23,284
trying to do. Now this works less and less well over the course of

499
00:31:23,284 –> 00:31:26,904
time because black Americans are experiencing, as I’ve said before,

500
00:31:27,159 –> 00:31:30,059
the long term economic, cultural and moral effects

501
00:31:30,760 –> 00:31:34,495
of winning basically the revolution with the

502
00:31:34,495 –> 00:31:37,395
passage of the 1968 civil rights act.

503
00:31:38,174 –> 00:31:42,015
This of course gets to the question that de Rolo and I have kind of

504
00:31:42,015 –> 00:31:45,640
been talking about already. What do you do after you win the revolution?

505
00:31:46,580 –> 00:31:49,940
What do you do after you’ve cast ballots or cast

506
00:31:49,940 –> 00:31:50,440
bullets?

507
00:31:57,165 –> 00:32:00,685
I am troubled. I’ll put this to Durolo. Durolo, I am

508
00:32:00,685 –> 00:32:03,860
troubled by Malcolm x’s lack of vision.

509
00:32:05,520 –> 00:32:09,220
I don’t think he had a vision much past the revolution. I I really don’t.

510
00:32:10,735 –> 00:32:13,875
And I am troubled by the fact that that

511
00:32:15,535 –> 00:32:19,020
that tick seems to have been picked up by future

512
00:32:19,020 –> 00:32:22,780
revolutionary movements that ape, they ape the posture of

513
00:32:22,780 –> 00:32:26,320
Malcolm X, but they don’t have any of the, as you put it, rhetorical

514
00:32:26,460 –> 00:32:30,085
skills. Mhmm. Comments on the ballot or the

515
00:32:30,085 –> 00:32:32,905
bullet? Yeah. Yeah.

516
00:32:34,245 –> 00:32:37,539
And, you know, it actually if I’m not mistaken,

517
00:32:37,840 –> 00:32:41,299
that’s I mean, it’s it’s most likely his phrase, but,

518
00:32:42,320 –> 00:32:45,975
there’s another you’re gonna pardon the expression. There’s another

519
00:32:46,034 –> 00:32:49,635
old Negro revolutionary Mhmm. Who I believe said

520
00:32:49,635 –> 00:32:53,470
this first. Yep.

521
00:32:53,470 –> 00:32:57,010
There we go. Bear with me a sec. Yep.

522
00:32:58,830 –> 00:33:02,645
Yep. There we go. Got

523
00:33:02,645 –> 00:33:03,145
it.

524
00:33:06,485 –> 00:33:09,960
Nope. Don’t want that. Where is it? Where is the good part of the

525
00:33:09,960 –> 00:33:13,560
quote? There we

526
00:33:13,560 –> 00:33:17,304
go. From the first, I saw no chance

527
00:33:17,304 –> 00:33:20,985
of bettering the condition of the freed man, meaning the freed black man, until he

528
00:33:20,985 –> 00:33:24,710
should cease to be merely a freed man and should become a citizen. And this

529
00:33:24,710 –> 00:33:28,470
is a point that x also brought up. Right? The difference between

530
00:33:28,470 –> 00:33:32,115
being in America and being an American and how it didn’t

531
00:33:32,115 –> 00:33:35,794
take any legislation for a Polish man to become an American,

532
00:33:35,794 –> 00:33:39,590
but apparently book legislation for African Americans to become Americans. And

533
00:33:39,590 –> 00:33:43,130
he bent in the 20th century when he was saying it, not in 19th. Anyway,

534
00:33:43,270 –> 00:33:47,030
I’ll pick up. I insisted that there was no safety for him nor for

535
00:33:47,030 –> 00:33:50,815
anybody else in America outside the American government that to

536
00:33:50,815 –> 00:33:54,655
guard, protect, and maintain his liberty, the freed man should have the ballot, that

537
00:33:54,655 –> 00:33:58,260
the liberties of the American people were dependent upon the ballot box, the

538
00:33:58,260 –> 00:34:01,700
jury box, and the cartridge books. That

539
00:34:01,700 –> 00:34:05,460
without these, no class of people could live and flourish in this

540
00:34:05,460 –> 00:34:08,695
country. And this was now the word for the hour with me and the word

541
00:34:08,695 –> 00:34:12,375
to which the people of the north willingly listened when I spoke, period. Close

542
00:34:12,375 –> 00:34:15,195
quote. And, of course, what I’m doing is quoting Frederick Douglass.

543
00:34:16,110 –> 00:34:19,630
My fellow Rochesterian and, that great

544
00:34:19,630 –> 00:34:23,150
symbol of, American freedom, black American freedom, and

545
00:34:23,150 –> 00:34:26,704
opportunity in the 19th century. So, but yes.

546
00:34:27,344 –> 00:34:30,944
So it’s weird because I

547
00:34:30,944 –> 00:34:33,830
think I think X had real vision.

548
00:34:34,850 –> 00:34:38,530
He had, you know, narrow experience, but real vision. Right? And

549
00:34:38,530 –> 00:34:41,989
so, he was somebody who would,

550
00:34:43,905 –> 00:34:47,745
in a monolithic sense, speak of the south and then extend it to

551
00:34:47,745 –> 00:34:51,489
the four corners of America. Whereas I think that the

552
00:34:51,489 –> 00:34:54,949
regional differences mattered then and still mattered even today,

553
00:34:56,130 –> 00:34:59,805
that the type of experience you can have and the types of types of

554
00:34:59,805 –> 00:35:03,405
opportunities that are presented to you or deny you or that you can the the

555
00:35:03,405 –> 00:35:07,244
fights you have to get what is yours or what you’re seeking, they

556
00:35:07,244 –> 00:35:11,040
don’t play out the same way in the 4 corners of of America. They just

557
00:35:11,040 –> 00:35:14,880
don’t. And so, you know, you said all politics is local. Culture

558
00:35:14,880 –> 00:35:18,715
is also local. And so those local differences

559
00:35:18,715 –> 00:35:22,315
matter. They’re very real differences even between between Texas, Louisiana, and

560
00:35:22,315 –> 00:35:25,609
Mississippi. There’s differences that are significant. Oh, yeah.

561
00:35:27,109 –> 00:35:30,630
Anyway, so it it’s weird, but I I

562
00:35:30,630 –> 00:35:34,005
think he had vision in his real, you know,

563
00:35:34,005 –> 00:35:37,525
transformative moment, of course, was when he when he went abroad. When he went

564
00:35:37,525 –> 00:35:41,160
abroad and his nation

565
00:35:41,160 –> 00:35:44,700
of Islam influenced thinking

566
00:35:45,320 –> 00:35:49,020
encountered orthodox Islam practice in,

567
00:35:50,075 –> 00:35:53,674
Makkah, Medina and Jeddah, and then in other parts of of the

568
00:35:53,674 –> 00:35:57,355
world, some of which I’ve been Tom. Mhmm. Some of which me, the Christian, has

569
00:35:57,355 –> 00:36:01,010
been to. And that that started the shift in his

570
00:36:01,010 –> 00:36:04,530
thinking. One of the reasons I think you’re not gonna see people on

571
00:36:04,530 –> 00:36:08,365
x or whatever who will have the force

572
00:36:08,425 –> 00:36:12,025
and the power of what, and this is gonna be an

573
00:36:12,025 –> 00:36:15,060
interesting dangerous statement, but the force and the power of what x was saying is

574
00:36:15,060 –> 00:36:18,500
he actually seemed to be racist. And thus, when he’s up

575
00:36:18,500 –> 00:36:22,040
there saying the truth

576
00:36:22,855 –> 00:36:26,475
that sometimes he will then close with this, you know, offensive rhetoric.

577
00:36:26,855 –> 00:36:30,615
It’s one of the reasons it had its power. You know? And again, I I

578
00:36:30,615 –> 00:36:34,250
go back to the statement that he made more than once to white

579
00:36:34,250 –> 00:36:38,010
members of the audience when he was speaking like, look, you know, if if this

580
00:36:38,010 –> 00:36:41,744
is actually an issue as I’m identifying it, you go to the mayor and say

581
00:36:41,803 –> 00:36:45,505
Tom, sicking the police dogs on, you know, black people, and then it

582
00:36:45,505 –> 00:36:49,310
will stop. And so, you know He had a problem with we shall overcome. Like,

583
00:36:49,310 –> 00:36:52,910
he mentions this several times in several different speeches. He had a problem with got

584
00:36:52,910 –> 00:36:56,525
to him. It really goddamn. Song really got to him.

585
00:36:56,684 –> 00:37:00,525
You know? And he’s got a great line about revolutions, and

586
00:37:00,525 –> 00:37:04,125
they’re not being singing. It’s in, message to the

587
00:37:04,125 –> 00:37:07,780
grassroots. You know? It’s actually so in our version, it’s on page 9.

588
00:37:07,780 –> 00:37:10,500
Right? Yep. You don’t do that in the rep this is a quote. You don’t

589
00:37:10,740 –> 00:37:14,200
oh, actually, I gotta back up, because you know?

590
00:37:14,875 –> 00:37:18,555
No. You need a revolution. Whoever heard of a revolution where they lock

591
00:37:18,555 –> 00:37:22,395
arms as reverend Klij Mhmm. Was putting out beautifully singing, we

592
00:37:22,395 –> 00:37:26,059
shall overcome. You don’t do that in revolution. You don’t do any

593
00:37:26,059 –> 00:37:28,160
singing. You’re too busy swinging.

594
00:37:30,140 –> 00:37:33,855
You know? And it’s just like it it’s funny. And on one

595
00:37:33,855 –> 00:37:37,375
level, I think he makes a point. Where it bothers me is

596
00:37:37,375 –> 00:37:41,155
that, that’s a song of hope.

597
00:37:41,359 –> 00:37:44,980
And it’s a song that essays, even though

598
00:37:45,200 –> 00:37:46,980
these are our darkest moments,

599
00:37:48,615 –> 00:37:52,055
the we’re in jail chained to a wall on death row

600
00:37:52,055 –> 00:37:55,770
moments, we shall overcome. That, you know,

601
00:37:55,770 –> 00:37:58,910
with God’s help, we will get through and overcome

602
00:37:59,850 –> 00:38:03,505
all of this opposition because we

603
00:38:03,505 –> 00:38:07,025
know that when God started this great

604
00:38:07,025 –> 00:38:10,164
American experiment, you know, that

605
00:38:10,980 –> 00:38:14,740
freedom, liberty, and justice were what he wanted for anybody who was

606
00:38:14,740 –> 00:38:18,360
there. And therefore, we will overcome.

607
00:38:18,660 –> 00:38:22,345
We will succeed in overcoming all of the

608
00:38:22,345 –> 00:38:25,865
machinations and filibustering and hypocrisy of our

609
00:38:25,865 –> 00:38:29,490
enemies, whom we also address, of course, in his speeches. Friends and

610
00:38:29,490 –> 00:38:33,010
enemies. And friends and enemies. He says that. But it’s great

611
00:38:33,010 –> 00:38:36,450
because we have them. Right. Do I not talk to them? He

612
00:38:36,450 –> 00:38:40,065
did. You know? Well, he he also says they pray,

613
00:38:40,204 –> 00:38:43,964
they’re talking at Satan because they’re dealing with their actual

614
00:38:43,964 –> 00:38:47,560
enemy. And there’s something to that to recognize. Let’s not

615
00:38:47,640 –> 00:38:51,160
let’s let’s make no bones about this. This is who I’m talking to, and this

616
00:38:51,160 –> 00:38:55,000
is what I’m saying with this authority. And so he would do that. And

617
00:38:55,000 –> 00:38:58,745
I mean, so much of so much of what happens, you know, now and I

618
00:38:58,745 –> 00:39:02,105
mean, of course, you know, we’re talking 64. He’s talking about the election of 64

619
00:39:02,105 –> 00:39:05,600
and ballot in the bullet. This is 60 years later.

620
00:39:05,740 –> 00:39:08,560
60 years later. Right. So someone up there talking,

621
00:39:09,260 –> 00:39:13,055
okay, without, you know, the real someone

622
00:39:13,055 –> 00:39:16,895
up there talking other than so this is obviously my

623
00:39:16,895 –> 00:39:20,655
point of view, but other than in certain limited circumstances, almost none of

624
00:39:20,655 –> 00:39:24,170
which are actually systemic. You can’t get up there with that

625
00:39:24,170 –> 00:39:27,850
moral weight that he had and talk about, you know, the the

626
00:39:27,850 –> 00:39:31,444
United States of hypocrisy. Okay? Because it wasn’t it

627
00:39:31,525 –> 00:39:34,904
it’s not that way now. I was at a rally,

628
00:39:35,845 –> 00:39:39,450
so my wife is Ukrainian. I was at a rally over the weekend in

629
00:39:39,450 –> 00:39:43,130
support of Ukrainian freedom, on the 2

630
00:39:43,130 –> 00:39:46,905
year anniversary of Putin’s invasion of of, you know, my wife’s birth

631
00:39:46,905 –> 00:39:50,744
country. Anyway, one of the men up

632
00:39:50,744 –> 00:39:54,539
there with a big American flag, you know, no accent in English. I

633
00:39:54,539 –> 00:39:57,019
I can’t obviously comment if he had an accent in Ukraine. He didn’t have an

634
00:39:57,019 –> 00:40:00,460
accent in English at all. It sounds like normal white man from Ohio.

635
00:40:00,460 –> 00:40:04,155
Okay. Talked about this being the land of freedom

636
00:40:04,155 –> 00:40:07,595
and opportunity. But opportunity, of course, is something that,

637
00:40:07,995 –> 00:40:11,730
isn’t presented to you on a silver platter, like John the Baptist’s head

638
00:40:11,730 –> 00:40:15,410
was to Herodias. You know, you have to

639
00:40:15,410 –> 00:40:18,805
chase it, you have to work for it. And it’s not

640
00:40:18,805 –> 00:40:22,484
just black and white people now in this dialectic or

641
00:40:22,484 –> 00:40:26,099
dynamic or dichotomy trying to do this. There’s all these

642
00:40:26,099 –> 00:40:29,220
other groups. And in one of his speeches, he lumped them all together. He said,

643
00:40:29,220 –> 00:40:32,200
oh, when I say black revolution, I Jesan, not white. Okay.

644
00:40:33,305 –> 00:40:36,905
The problem with that is it obscures a multipolar world. That’s one of the

645
00:40:36,905 –> 00:40:40,125
problems with that. Okay? And so in a multipolar

646
00:40:40,345 –> 00:40:43,950
America as it were, where you have literally

647
00:40:44,009 –> 00:40:47,609
several generations of success for some

648
00:40:47,609 –> 00:40:51,210
Asian groups or and and listen to me talking about

649
00:40:51,210 –> 00:40:54,945
groups. Asian Americans, okay, of different Sorrells,

650
00:40:55,015 –> 00:40:58,775
African Americans of different Sorrells, and even within our own community as it

651
00:40:58,775 –> 00:41:02,339
were. Well, but what type of

652
00:41:02,559 –> 00:41:06,400
black American are you talking about? Is this an African immigrant? You know,

653
00:41:06,400 –> 00:41:10,065
I was actually I was at a presentation yesterday by a

654
00:41:10,065 –> 00:41:13,525
certified financial professional who’s from Beridi

655
00:41:13,985 –> 00:41:17,529
in East Africa. Okay? And she’s doing her thing and and making her

656
00:41:17,529 –> 00:41:20,890
presentation. That’s great. This woman has success. She has 2 master’s degrees as she told

657
00:41:20,890 –> 00:41:24,730
us in her presentation. Okay? That was not the reality that x was

658
00:41:24,730 –> 00:41:28,415
fighting. The reality that he was

659
00:41:28,415 –> 00:41:32,255
fighting was an oppression that needed to be overthrown. And

660
00:41:32,255 –> 00:41:35,935
so now that as you pointed out, okay, the revolution’s conceded. Great.

661
00:41:35,935 –> 00:41:39,670
Okay. So where are we? Part of

662
00:41:40,610 –> 00:41:44,290
the problem that people have who get up

663
00:41:44,290 –> 00:41:48,105
there with their BLM stuff is that

664
00:41:48,405 –> 00:41:51,625
the we and the where is now no longer monolithic.

665
00:41:51,924 –> 00:41:55,690
Okay? And so now I’m gonna jump to the point that you still

666
00:41:55,690 –> 00:41:58,570
haven’t raised, but I I will I will jump to that point if you let

667
00:41:58,570 –> 00:42:01,610
me. Well, one second. Before you jump to that point, I wanna I wanna make

668
00:42:01,610 –> 00:42:05,405
one point. I wanna make one point from that same speech where you

669
00:42:05,405 –> 00:42:09,164
mentioned, and this is the the message to grassroots. And I

670
00:42:09,164 –> 00:42:12,650
I highlighted something in here. It’s on page 12,

671
00:42:14,150 –> 00:42:17,109
at the bottom of it. And I and I wanna when I hit when I

672
00:42:17,109 –> 00:42:20,810
read this, I started laughing because you talk about we shall overcome

673
00:42:21,095 –> 00:42:23,735
and how that just got in his craw, and this is why it got in

674
00:42:23,735 –> 00:42:27,355
his craw. And this is a fundamental religious difference between

675
00:42:27,415 –> 00:42:31,079
the reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior and

676
00:42:31,079 –> 00:42:34,700
the Islamic Malcolm x.

677
00:42:34,920 –> 00:42:37,800
There is nothing in our book this is from Malcolm x. There is nothing in

678
00:42:37,800 –> 00:42:40,805
our book, the Quran, that teaches us to suffer peacefully.

679
00:42:41,505 –> 00:42:45,125
Our religion teaches us to be intelligent, be peaceful, be courteous,

680
00:42:45,185 –> 00:42:48,865
obey the law, respect everyone. But if someone puts his hand on you, send him

681
00:42:48,865 –> 00:42:52,390
to the cemetery. That’s a good religion. In fact, that’s an old Tom

682
00:42:52,450 –> 00:42:55,650
religion. That’s that old time religion. That’s the one that Ma and Pa used to

683
00:42:55,650 –> 00:42:58,265
talk about. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and a head

684
00:42:58,265 –> 00:43:01,305
for a head, and a life for a life. That’s a good religion. And nobody

685
00:43:01,305 –> 00:43:04,905
resents that kind of religion being taught but a wolf who intends to make you

686
00:43:04,905 –> 00:43:08,350
his meal. That right there,

687
00:43:08,410 –> 00:43:12,170
I laughed out loud because you talk about the

688
00:43:12,170 –> 00:43:15,785
weight of moral authority. The weight of

689
00:43:15,785 –> 00:43:19,145
moral authority came in both Malcolm X

690
00:43:19,145 –> 00:43:22,765
and in the reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior

691
00:43:23,145 –> 00:43:26,060
from their religion.

692
00:43:27,000 –> 00:43:30,040
Mhmm. That’s where the weight of their moral authority came from. You’re not going to

693
00:43:30,040 –> 00:43:33,665
get in a modern era 60 years leaders, you’re not

694
00:43:33,665 –> 00:43:37,045
going to get the weight of moral authority from entertainment

695
00:43:37,425 –> 00:43:41,125
or from media or even from any form of cultural Marxism.

696
00:43:41,630 –> 00:43:45,470
You’re not going to get the weight. That’s why BLM frittered away. That’s why

697
00:43:45,470 –> 00:43:49,150
all these d e I programs are frittering away. They have no

698
00:43:49,150 –> 00:43:52,875
weight of moral authority because they were based on something. They are

699
00:43:52,875 –> 00:43:56,655
based on things that do not know. They were based on things that

700
00:43:56,954 –> 00:44:00,175
rest on other things that we don’t talk about anymore.

701
00:44:01,580 –> 00:44:05,420
Has to rest on something else. It cannot just

702
00:44:05,420 –> 00:44:09,100
be itself. There has to be an underpinning to

703
00:44:09,100 –> 00:44:12,795
it. And this is something that I think we sense

704
00:44:12,795 –> 00:44:16,635
in our era and leaders sense it, but we don’t actually

705
00:44:16,635 –> 00:44:19,880
know how to put it into words. Mhmm. I think we struggle with how to

706
00:44:19,880 –> 00:44:23,160
put it into words. And then we look back and we try to adopt the

707
00:44:23,160 –> 00:44:26,599
rhetoric and adopt the pose and adopt the flash with the

708
00:44:26,599 –> 00:44:30,015
substance underneath is missing. And thus, you become a copy of a copy of a

709
00:44:30,015 –> 00:44:33,155
copy. You know, what is it,

710
00:44:33,855 –> 00:44:37,599
Coleman Hughes? I was listening to him talk the other day. And me and Coleman,

711
00:44:37,660 –> 00:44:41,420
we don’t share the same religious beliefs. We we just we just don’t. We’re not

712
00:44:41,420 –> 00:44:44,940
that guy. But he he made a point. He

713
00:44:44,940 –> 00:44:48,775
said, when you go out and survey people, black and

714
00:44:48,775 –> 00:44:52,155
white, and you asked them how many

715
00:44:52,535 –> 00:44:56,110
black men got shot each

716
00:44:56,110 –> 00:44:59,869
year before 2020, they will say

717
00:44:59,869 –> 00:45:03,090
a1000. Has to be a1000.

718
00:45:03,964 –> 00:45:07,165
Mhmm. It’s actually when you go and look at the numbers because all these crime

719
00:45:07,165 –> 00:45:10,065
statistics are reported, it’s like 12

720
00:45:11,860 –> 00:45:15,640
by cops. 12. Now is that good?

721
00:45:15,780 –> 00:45:19,460
No. No one should be shot. All the usual book fides.

722
00:45:19,460 –> 00:45:22,865
Right? All the usual things we say to sort of buffer that.

723
00:45:23,005 –> 00:45:26,625
But 12? 12 is not a1000.

724
00:45:27,920 –> 00:45:31,680
Where is your moral authority? And this is the thing. When you win

725
00:45:31,680 –> 00:45:35,520
the revolution, you have to establish your moral authority someplace else, and

726
00:45:35,520 –> 00:45:38,625
it has to be something that’s gonna be old time. I would prefer it be

727
00:45:38,625 –> 00:45:41,985
in you. And I would prefer it be that old time religion, that old time

728
00:45:41,985 –> 00:45:45,745
Christian religion, the new Testament Christian religion, preferably if

729
00:45:45,745 –> 00:45:48,990
we’re going to base it on something, but it’s gotta be based on that old

730
00:45:48,990 –> 00:45:52,670
time religion. And that was the thing that Malcolm x

731
00:45:52,670 –> 00:45:56,475
had and that many of those revolutionary leaders of the sixties

732
00:45:56,475 –> 00:45:59,935
that we lionize now, that’s what they had. They had religion.

733
00:46:00,315 –> 00:46:03,690
And we only make that point, as

734
00:46:03,690 –> 00:46:07,050
boldly as we should. Cultural Marxism isn’t gonna get you there. It’ll get you

735
00:46:07,370 –> 00:46:10,910
it’ll it’ll get you into a DEI shakedown of a corporation.

736
00:46:11,495 –> 00:46:15,255
Somebody will get paid, and then they’ll go buy a house. By the way,

737
00:46:15,255 –> 00:46:17,835
that’s what all you wanna know where all the money went? The all those corporations

738
00:46:17,895 –> 00:46:21,275
donated to BLM and went to go buy BLM leaders’ houses.

739
00:46:22,119 –> 00:46:25,420
Wow. We know this for a fact. That’s a shame.

740
00:46:26,039 –> 00:46:29,734
Oh. Didn’t go to communities. It didn’t it didn’t it didn’t it didn’t

741
00:46:29,734 –> 00:46:33,255
help people get out of prison fast or didn’t do any of that crap. It

742
00:46:33,255 –> 00:46:36,714
just went to go buy some cultural

743
00:46:36,855 –> 00:46:38,875
Marxist Mhmm.

744
00:46:40,360 –> 00:46:43,500
Who’s running a grift another house.

745
00:46:44,040 –> 00:46:46,700
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

746
00:46:48,535 –> 00:46:52,315
Yeah. It’s tough. It’s tough because it was such a

747
00:46:52,455 –> 00:46:56,089
such a powerful hashtag, And then it

748
00:46:56,089 –> 00:46:59,770
then ends up, you know, spawning this movement, and then

749
00:46:59,770 –> 00:47:03,369
the movement starts going in these directions. And it’s like, hey. It

750
00:47:03,369 –> 00:47:06,575
was book up. When you’re protesting the unjust

751
00:47:07,995 –> 00:47:11,755
murder of a black man by a policeman, I got you. I’m there

752
00:47:11,755 –> 00:47:14,490
with you. Let’s do this. Okay? Because this shouldn’t happen to anybody. I don’t care

753
00:47:14,490 –> 00:47:17,690
what color the person is. This is not how it’s supposed to go. The police

754
00:47:17,690 –> 00:47:20,490
are supposed to enforce the law. They’re supposed to catch people, break the law. They’re

755
00:47:20,490 –> 00:47:23,905
not supposed to take the law into their hands. That’s one thing, but they’re certainly

756
00:47:23,905 –> 00:47:27,265
not supposed to break the law trying

757
00:47:27,265 –> 00:47:30,930
to achieve whatever end. We got that. We got that. We got that.

758
00:47:30,930 –> 00:47:34,310
I mean, the whole the whole moral

759
00:47:34,450 –> 00:47:38,150
impulse behind Watergate rests on that principle

760
00:47:38,765 –> 00:47:42,605
that you’re there, the law binds you too. But where

761
00:47:42,605 –> 00:47:45,885
does the law come from? We never we never talk about where the law comes

762
00:47:45,885 –> 00:47:49,460
from. This is a worldview issue. What worldview? Doug

763
00:47:49,460 –> 00:47:51,960
Wilson, the pastor Doug Wilson essays it’s either Jesus

764
00:47:54,100 –> 00:47:57,745
or something else. That’s it. You got it. And and and we

765
00:47:57,745 –> 00:48:01,445
don’t my god. One of the things I wanna do on this podcast this year

766
00:48:01,505 –> 00:48:04,305
is talk about and we are gonna talk about it kind of in the upcoming

767
00:48:04,305 –> 00:48:07,950
months on this podcast, but worldviews really do matter. Because

768
00:48:07,950 –> 00:48:11,710
everybody’s walking around talking about solutions, not talking about solutions, talking about

769
00:48:11,710 –> 00:48:15,545
problems. Where are we going to base our

770
00:48:15,545 –> 00:48:19,005
solutions? Right. What is going to be the foundational

771
00:48:19,305 –> 00:48:22,685
rock? And you’re you’re gonna come coming back in July to talk about the foundational

772
00:48:22,744 –> 00:48:26,400
documents. Those guys, the founding

773
00:48:26,400 –> 00:48:30,020
fathers, the American revolution that that even Malcolm x mentions,

774
00:48:30,640 –> 00:48:34,365
it wasn’t based on Islam, kids, and it wasn’t

775
00:48:34,365 –> 00:48:38,125
based on secular atheism. Nope. It was based on

776
00:48:38,125 –> 00:48:41,425
Christianity. Rock and rib Christianity. So

777
00:48:42,010 –> 00:48:44,750
George Floyd’s death, while tragic,

778
00:48:45,770 –> 00:48:49,130
and the other 12 black men and the other

779
00:48:49,130 –> 00:48:52,664
thousands of other men from of of

780
00:48:52,664 –> 00:48:56,265
other hues and colors and different

781
00:48:56,265 –> 00:48:59,920
levels and degrees of melanin, their deaths, while

782
00:48:59,920 –> 00:49:03,680
tragic, if we’re going to protest that, we have to figure out what our worldview

783
00:49:03,680 –> 00:49:06,800
is from protesting that, and it cannot be based I don’t think it can be

784
00:49:06,800 –> 00:49:10,035
based on a Twitter hashtag. You don’t have the moral authority.

785
00:49:10,655 –> 00:49:12,835
Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

786
00:49:14,735 –> 00:49:18,240
Mhmm. Yep. And I get I get I get excited. I get irate about this

787
00:49:18,240 –> 00:49:22,080
because it drives me absolutely nuts. It

788
00:49:22,080 –> 00:49:25,375
drives me absolutely crazy. And

789
00:49:25,915 –> 00:49:29,515
so it it just it does it drives you crazy. That’s why I get up

790
00:49:29,515 –> 00:49:32,359
on my high horse about this. Sorry. Go ahead. That’s okay.

791
00:49:34,180 –> 00:49:37,859
Yeah. So, one of the, you know, issues that we’re gonna

792
00:49:37,859 –> 00:49:41,320
address is, you know, this a line of, revolution.

793
00:49:41,845 –> 00:49:45,625
Yeah. That apparently is worn out among average black people in America,

794
00:49:46,245 –> 00:49:49,545
still has some purchase for elites within black culture.

795
00:49:49,845 –> 00:49:53,500
Right. So, you know Claudine

796
00:49:53,500 –> 00:49:57,260
Gay thinks that she’s fighting a revolution, making $900,000 a year as as

797
00:49:57,260 –> 00:50:00,915
the as now the former president of Harvard, and I can name other people

798
00:50:00,915 –> 00:50:04,435
too. You make a 900 k a year, honey. You’re not you’re not fighting a

799
00:50:04,435 –> 00:50:07,859
revolution. Sorry. You’re you’re you’re not. Yep.

800
00:50:08,320 –> 00:50:11,220
Yep. I hear you. So

801
00:50:14,224 –> 00:50:17,585
so the question for me is oh, okay. Well, but why has that

802
00:50:17,585 –> 00:50:21,345
happened? Why, why is

803
00:50:21,345 –> 00:50:23,204
revolution something that

804
00:50:25,730 –> 00:50:29,090
black people on any kind of

805
00:50:29,090 –> 00:50:32,930
scale black people in America, on any kind of scale with few exceptions,

806
00:50:32,930 –> 00:50:36,705
just don’t seem to be interested in. Okay? And, of course,

807
00:50:36,925 –> 00:50:40,685
there’s a line, and not just a line. There’s a whole

808
00:50:40,685 –> 00:50:43,325
dynamic within, the movie Jerry Maguire

809
00:50:44,509 –> 00:50:48,190
for which, of course, Cuba Gooding Junior got his Oscar. And I

810
00:50:48,190 –> 00:50:51,869
remember my father, my late father, who used to tell me from time to time,

811
00:50:51,869 –> 00:50:55,295
oh, you know, someone book me for Cuba Gooding Jr, and I used to think

812
00:50:55,295 –> 00:50:58,095
that it was the craziest thing he was saying until I was standing with him

813
00:50:58,095 –> 00:51:01,155
once when it happened. And I was literally so mad at the woman.

814
00:51:01,580 –> 00:51:05,020
So mad. Like, how can you not see this is my

815
00:51:05,020 –> 00:51:07,840
father. No. He does not like anyway,

816
00:51:09,340 –> 00:51:13,115
in the movie, though Yes. His character, his brother

817
00:51:13,115 –> 00:51:16,875
was still militant. He’s writers, TV, we love you. He was still militant. Of course,

818
00:51:16,875 –> 00:51:20,474
he’s standing, doing Great. Raising fist just like I am right now, except

819
00:51:20,474 –> 00:51:24,270
I’m seated raising the fist. Yeah. You know Played by the great Harry

820
00:51:24,270 –> 00:51:28,030
Spears. Yeah. But even then, right, that was

821
00:51:28,030 –> 00:51:31,765
one guy in a family. Right. Right. That was 1 guy in a

822
00:51:31,765 –> 00:51:35,285
family. Wasn’t whole households, at least in that movie. Wasn’t whole

823
00:51:35,285 –> 00:51:38,829
households. Right? But it’s just why is that the

824
00:51:38,829 –> 00:51:42,589
case? And I think there’s several dynamics that explain why

825
00:51:42,589 –> 00:51:45,410
even from, you know, 1968 to 19

826
00:51:46,415 –> 00:51:50,255
93, you know, that’s when

827
00:51:50,255 –> 00:51:54,095
the shifts happened. But, even and it you can even back

828
00:51:54,095 –> 00:51:57,830
up. It probably the shift was probably done sometime in the eighties. But,

829
00:51:57,830 –> 00:52:01,430
anyway, but then there’s several dynamics that played

830
00:52:01,430 –> 00:52:04,330
out that to me help explain why

831
00:52:05,455 –> 00:52:09,055
revolution doesn’t really sell. You can’t sell

832
00:52:09,055 –> 00:52:12,895
revolution to, most black people in

833
00:52:12,895 –> 00:52:16,730
the street. Right. Or in the off certainly in the office, but even in

834
00:52:16,730 –> 00:52:20,490
the street. It’s just it’s it’s it’s not a thing. Here’s why. I think

835
00:52:20,490 –> 00:52:23,795
it’s because of mass incarceration, suburbanization, and drugs.

836
00:52:24,255 –> 00:52:28,015
Okay? Plus the destruction of systemic racism or most

837
00:52:28,015 –> 00:52:31,820
of it in America. And then the increase in economic

838
00:52:31,880 –> 00:52:35,720
success that certain, you know, black individuals and families

839
00:52:35,720 –> 00:52:38,700
and communities have experienced. And so because of that,

840
00:52:40,155 –> 00:52:43,935
the we is now in quotation marks and then the location

841
00:52:44,555 –> 00:52:47,995
where we are the place, you know, that’s also in

842
00:52:47,995 –> 00:52:51,740
quotation marks because, you know, you might be able to sell it to someone

843
00:52:51,740 –> 00:52:55,580
who’s still ghettoized, to someone who, you know, ghettoized, grew up

844
00:52:55,580 –> 00:52:59,260
in foster care, you know, is dealing with a gang, but the right

845
00:52:59,260 –> 00:53:03,025
way mean they’re fighting them. You could sell that person on revolution. Absolutely.

846
00:53:04,765 –> 00:53:08,125
What that’s much easier to do than to sell that person on

847
00:53:08,125 –> 00:53:11,880
opportunity. But, you know, why is that the case? Look at that

848
00:53:11,880 –> 00:53:14,840
person’s experience. Look at his experience. He’s a man in my head, so look at

849
00:53:14,840 –> 00:53:18,535
his experience. You know, this explains why, when you teach

850
00:53:18,535 –> 00:53:22,375
him that America is about freedom and opportunity, he thinks you’re crazy because that’s

851
00:53:22,375 –> 00:53:26,135
not what he knows. And then when you take him out

852
00:53:26,135 –> 00:53:29,690
of those environments, right, and you introduce him to

853
00:53:29,690 –> 00:53:33,290
another environment where people invest in

854
00:53:33,290 –> 00:53:36,805
him, support him, instruct and

855
00:53:36,805 –> 00:53:40,025
guide him into, more mainstream

856
00:53:40,165 –> 00:53:43,859
experiences in American culture, then then

857
00:53:43,859 –> 00:53:46,599
there’s a real revolution, but it’s an internal

858
00:53:47,220 –> 00:53:50,839
revolution. And all of a sudden, his whole perspective shifts

859
00:53:51,220 –> 00:53:54,885
and he can see, wait a minute. This this was here

860
00:53:54,885 –> 00:53:58,565
this whole time. I just had to go 35 blocks that way, but

861
00:53:58,565 –> 00:54:02,350
this is here the whole time. You know? And I can

862
00:54:02,350 –> 00:54:06,110
make use of this and and and and then start to do

863
00:54:06,110 –> 00:54:09,730
something, give back, have an impact, and live out those values

864
00:54:10,030 –> 00:54:13,595
that he now has, you know, that

865
00:54:13,595 –> 00:54:17,435
accord very much with the existing American system. You

866
00:54:17,435 –> 00:54:20,800
know, it’s it’s it fascinates me. Did you ever watch

867
00:54:21,180 –> 00:54:24,880
the show The Wire on HBO? Oh, yeah.

868
00:54:25,099 –> 00:54:28,885
Okay. Alright. And not I probably saw 1 or 2

869
00:54:28,885 –> 00:54:32,405
episodes. Okay. Alright. I watched all 5 seasons of that

870
00:54:32,405 –> 00:54:36,085
show. Wow. I am a huge I am a huge the wire

871
00:54:36,085 –> 00:54:39,020
fan. Huge fan of that show. And

872
00:54:39,800 –> 00:54:43,480
The Wire number 1, I don’t think we’re ever

873
00:54:43,480 –> 00:54:47,214
gonna do something as complex and as deep as

874
00:54:47,214 –> 00:54:49,315
the wire on American television

875
00:54:50,974 –> 00:54:54,539
again. Like, I I don’t think we have the the capacity, the writing capacity to

876
00:54:54,539 –> 00:54:58,140
talk about what your worldview is based on. The current writing that we

877
00:54:58,140 –> 00:55:01,819
have in Hollywood, and in and in popular

878
00:55:01,819 –> 00:55:05,605
culture in general is is just sort of cannibalizing off the

879
00:55:05,605 –> 00:55:08,424
past because there’s no foundational there’s no foundational

880
00:55:09,045 –> 00:55:12,700
elements underneath a lot of what is being produced now at the mass

881
00:55:12,859 –> 00:55:16,300
culture, quote, unquote, level. Mhmm. With that being

882
00:55:16,300 –> 00:55:20,140
said, The Wire and The Sopranos are probably the 2 best shows

883
00:55:20,140 –> 00:55:23,605
of the early 2000 bar none and of the early 21st

884
00:55:23,825 –> 00:55:27,045
century bar none. Great writing on both those shows.

885
00:55:28,920 –> 00:55:32,680
There’s a character in the wire who is on drugs, named

886
00:55:32,680 –> 00:55:36,200
Bubs. Mhmm. And, Bubs tells one of the

887
00:55:36,200 –> 00:55:39,875
detectives one time who’s trying to get him off the street, that it’s a thin

888
00:55:39,875 –> 00:55:41,815
line between heaven and here. Right?

889
00:55:43,555 –> 00:55:47,150
And I always think about that when

890
00:55:47,150 –> 00:55:50,270
I would live in the kinds of places that you and I the kind of

891
00:55:50,270 –> 00:55:53,329
place that you and I both came from. And I would see

892
00:55:54,755 –> 00:55:58,435
people who have a university in their town that they have easy

893
00:55:58,435 –> 00:56:02,195
access to, but they can’t walk the 3 it’s a long way from

894
00:56:02,860 –> 00:56:05,180
I won’t say the name of the high school, but it’s a long way from

895
00:56:05,180 –> 00:56:08,700
that high school. You know which one I’m talking about. In the downtown where we

896
00:56:08,700 –> 00:56:11,900
were at, it’s a long way from there to that that to that university in

897
00:56:11,900 –> 00:56:15,665
that town. It’s a long walk even though it’s only a bus ride.

898
00:56:17,165 –> 00:56:20,765
And the that was

899
00:56:20,765 –> 00:56:24,460
demonstrated at the wire, through Bub’s ex through the the through Bub’s

900
00:56:24,460 –> 00:56:28,140
experience, through a couple of the experiences in the, in

901
00:56:28,140 –> 00:56:31,225
the of characters in the show. I mean, one character in the show, he starts

902
00:56:31,225 –> 00:56:34,925
out as a drug dealer, goes to jail, and basically

903
00:56:35,065 –> 00:56:38,745
talk about having his eyes open, has his eyes open because he starts

904
00:56:38,745 –> 00:56:42,549
reading books like to kill a mockingbird because he finally has time to read.

905
00:56:42,930 –> 00:56:46,695
Mhmm. And he was always smart. He knew how to play chess,

906
00:56:46,935 –> 00:56:50,295
actually. There’s a great scene in in in, in the

907
00:56:50,295 –> 00:56:53,735
show early leaders in the first season where he’s

908
00:56:53,735 –> 00:56:57,339
explaining to the other the other the other drug runner kids on the

909
00:56:57,339 –> 00:57:00,540
corner how to play chess because they’re screwing it up. And he’s like, nope. Nope.

910
00:57:00,540 –> 00:57:04,155
Nope. You know, like, the king stayed the queen stays the queen and the

911
00:57:04,155 –> 00:57:07,915
pawns move around, but the king stayed the king. And, you

912
00:57:07,915 –> 00:57:11,595
know, there’s all these sort of iconic iconic ideas there in the wire.

913
00:57:11,595 –> 00:57:15,299
It layers in this depth. So, anyway, this character goes to jail, finds

914
00:57:15,299 –> 00:57:19,000
out that his uncle basically betrayed him, and he he gets killed in jail.

915
00:57:19,619 –> 00:57:23,335
But before he goes before he gets killed, he has that light bulb go

916
00:57:23,335 –> 00:57:26,715
off of, oh, I could have had a middle class life.

917
00:57:28,109 –> 00:57:31,306
He doesn’t know that word. He doesn’t know that Tom.

918
00:57:32,589 –> 00:57:36,260
And, of course, he believes in racism and police, you know, brutality and da

919
00:57:36,260 –> 00:57:39,795
da da da. And he doesn’t tie it to the life choices

920
00:57:39,795 –> 00:57:43,095
he’s making. He’s just existing inside of this system,

921
00:57:43,715 –> 00:57:47,360
and it’s a long way from where he is in the Baltimore housing projects

922
00:57:48,220 –> 00:57:51,920
Mhmm. To University of Maryland.

923
00:57:52,395 –> 00:57:56,075
Or Johns Hopkins. Or Johns Hopkins, which is literally right over there. Yeah.

924
00:57:56,075 –> 00:57:59,535
Johns Hopkins is right over there. It is very long way. Yes.

925
00:57:59,690 –> 00:58:03,070
Yes. And I don’t think we do a good job.

926
00:58:04,250 –> 00:58:07,370
No. I won’t say we don’t say we do a good job. I think that

927
00:58:07,370 –> 00:58:11,184
the full realization of the victories of the revolution is

928
00:58:11,184 –> 00:58:14,885
this conversation we’re having right now. I think this is the full revolution

929
00:58:16,970 –> 00:58:20,430
the full revelation of the results of the revolution.

930
00:58:21,130 –> 00:58:24,744
I mean, I’ve said this before. You you you’ve been to Cornell. I I

931
00:58:24,744 –> 00:58:28,345
went to I went to, you know, I went to college. I was talking

932
00:58:28,345 –> 00:58:31,945
about my net worth with somebody this weekend, and he was kind of surprised that,

933
00:58:31,945 –> 00:58:34,630
like, his net worth was as high as it was. He’s like, I don’t really

934
00:58:34,630 –> 00:58:37,670
think I should say this out loud, but I’m gonna tell you about it because

935
00:58:37,670 –> 00:58:41,270
I really wanna whisper it because, like, where I came from, I didn’t imagine that

936
00:58:41,270 –> 00:58:44,815
any of this was going to happen. But he did all the right

937
00:58:44,815 –> 00:58:48,194
things. Right? Mhmm. Like, he he he’s had, you know,

938
00:58:48,575 –> 00:58:52,290
stayed married, built up assets, you know,

939
00:58:52,290 –> 00:58:56,130
had his kids, got his kids out of the house. He did all the

940
00:58:56,130 –> 00:58:59,970
things that you’re supposed to do. And what’s weird to me is now in our

941
00:58:59,970 –> 00:59:03,815
era, we tie that to systemic racism

942
00:59:03,875 –> 00:59:06,855
or whiteness, and none of those things are color coded.

943
00:59:07,474 –> 00:59:10,135
Mhmm. They’re just the elements of success.

944
00:59:11,140 –> 00:59:14,820
They’re not color coded. Being on time to a

945
00:59:14,820 –> 00:59:18,280
meeting when you’re expected to be on time to a meeting is not color coded.

946
00:59:18,340 –> 00:59:21,434
Being on time is not acting white. Mhmm.

947
00:59:23,095 –> 00:59:25,115
It’s just not. Mhmm.

948
00:59:26,934 –> 00:59:30,210
And, you know, I I I look at all this as, you know, my final

949
00:59:30,210 –> 00:59:33,569
victory over all those black people years ago, all my,

950
00:59:33,569 –> 00:59:37,109
you know, fellow travelers who were trying to be whatever.

951
00:59:37,964 –> 00:59:40,224
Mhmm. And I wasn’t part of that.

952
00:59:43,005 –> 00:59:46,684
Except on time, behaving, and getting the question right. Yes.

953
00:59:46,684 –> 00:59:50,259
Right. Anything but those three things. Writers? Anything but those three things because

954
00:59:50,980 –> 00:59:54,760
well and even this you would see this in the decline in rap culture. Right?

955
00:59:55,135 –> 00:59:58,915
Like, Kanye was the first rapper Mhmm.

956
00:59:59,455 –> 01:00:01,475
Who kind of Sorrells of

957
01:00:04,550 –> 01:00:07,610
pulled the the the the cover off of the game

958
01:00:08,230 –> 01:00:11,715
Mhmm. And said, I’m not my

959
01:00:11,715 –> 01:00:15,555
mama had a job. I didn’t sling drugs. I’m just the

960
01:00:15,555 –> 01:00:17,255
greatest rapper ever.

961
01:00:19,370 –> 01:00:23,050
Like, I’m just great. My pain does not

962
01:00:23,050 –> 01:00:26,250
have to be a part of this struggle because there was no pain. I lived

963
01:00:26,250 –> 01:00:30,055
a middle class life in Chicago. Mhmm. I’m doing this because I’m the greatest at

964
01:00:30,055 –> 01:00:33,575
it because I have talent at it. That’s why I’m doing it. That was

965
01:00:33,575 –> 01:00:36,635
Kanye’s fundamental before he went off the rails. Kanye’s

966
01:00:37,015 –> 01:00:40,680
fundamental sort of mindset. Right? And that turned the world

967
01:00:40,680 –> 01:00:43,980
that turned the world of rap culture inside out. Mhmm.

968
01:00:45,325 –> 01:00:49,165
Mhmm. Along with Eminem, I think Eminem had a lot

969
01:00:49,165 –> 01:00:51,805
to do with that also because who expected a white boy to be able to

970
01:00:51,805 –> 01:00:53,825
spit like that? But, you know?

971
01:00:56,710 –> 01:01:00,410
Yep. Yep. Yep.

972
01:01:01,665 –> 01:01:03,925
And there’s still the NBA and the NFL.

973
01:01:05,265 –> 01:01:09,105
Yeah. There’s all those things. They’re my they’re my examples of

974
01:01:09,105 –> 01:01:12,869
why we don’t re we we don’t really believe

975
01:01:12,869 –> 01:01:16,630
in affirmative action. Don’t

976
01:01:16,630 –> 01:01:19,835
lay that out. We you can’t you can’t just you can’t just you can’t just

977
01:01:19,835 –> 01:01:21,755
drop that on the folks. You gotta lay that out. Go ahead. Why why don’t

978
01:01:21,755 –> 01:01:24,955
we believe in affirmative? We’re actually trying to get over a playground in the inner

979
01:01:24,955 –> 01:01:28,680
city and we see a basketball court

980
01:01:29,080 –> 01:01:32,680
Mhmm. We have an idea in our minds about what the player’s gonna look

981
01:01:32,680 –> 01:01:36,220
like. Mhmm. They look like me. But when they don’t,

982
01:01:36,825 –> 01:01:40,365
well, those boys can really play ball.

983
01:01:40,825 –> 01:01:44,505
That’s how we see it. That’s it. There’s no other way of looking at it,

984
01:01:44,505 –> 01:01:48,340
and it’s just showing people that all you

985
01:01:48,340 –> 01:01:52,100
need to do is just expand that mindset to every single industry venture

986
01:01:52,100 –> 01:01:55,355
and endeavor, and all of a sudden it’s cool. All of a sudden it’s cool.

987
01:01:55,495 –> 01:01:59,115
You know? The people who don’t get it are people who

988
01:01:59,175 –> 01:02:02,859
when they find out I think I remember where

989
01:02:02,859 –> 01:02:06,480
I was. But when they find out, for example, the Eminem is not

990
01:02:06,539 –> 01:02:09,980
black, because I I thought he was black. I listened to him and thought he

991
01:02:09,980 –> 01:02:13,195
was black, and then I had to be informed, no. This guy is white. What?

992
01:02:13,195 –> 01:02:17,035
It was a trip. Okay? Literature, it sounded

993
01:02:17,035 –> 01:02:20,660
like Urkel rapping, but could rap. That’s what

994
01:02:20,900 –> 01:02:24,119
and I remember being in a car listening to this, like, oh, wow. Okay. Wow.

995
01:02:24,900 –> 01:02:27,160
Wait. What? He’s what? Okay.

996
01:02:29,145 –> 01:02:32,765
The people who then say, okay. This is either not legitimate

997
01:02:33,145 –> 01:02:36,925
or even worse. Because that that, I can understand

998
01:02:37,710 –> 01:02:41,470
aesthetically or otherwise somebody taking that position. I think they’re wrong, but

999
01:02:41,470 –> 01:02:45,155
I can understand that. I can’t understand. I’d like this

1000
01:02:45,155 –> 01:02:48,755
until the moment I learned the identity of the person who is

1001
01:02:48,755 –> 01:02:52,435
producing all of this rhetoric and music and

1002
01:02:52,435 –> 01:02:56,060
beats, etcetera. And now because I know who he is, I no longer

1003
01:02:56,060 –> 01:02:59,740
like this. That. And it’s just like, you know, those people,

1004
01:02:59,740 –> 01:03:03,415
they’re they’re they’re not going to get it. No. But the rest of

1005
01:03:03,415 –> 01:03:07,175
us, which is certainly most, people in America who

1006
01:03:07,175 –> 01:03:10,590
have lots of Jesan. Okay? When when we when we go to

1007
01:03:10,590 –> 01:03:14,350
an an inner city basketball court, when we go to an NBA

1008
01:03:14,350 –> 01:03:17,950
game or a college game, okay, where the college has enough students,

1009
01:03:17,950 –> 01:03:21,775
okay, at least 20,000, there’s certain things we’re expecting to see in a

1010
01:03:21,775 –> 01:03:25,455
basketball court. Mhmm. And when we don’t see them, we

1011
01:03:25,455 –> 01:03:28,975
expect the people we do see there to be really good. K.

1012
01:03:28,975 –> 01:03:32,370
Fine. Well, that’s why that’s why Larry well, that’s why Larry

1013
01:03:32,370 –> 01:03:35,970
Bird well, that’s why Larry Bird is the greatest white man to ever play

1014
01:03:35,970 –> 01:03:39,555
basketball in the history of the NFL or, I’m sorry, the NBA. He just

1015
01:03:39,555 –> 01:03:43,234
is. He just was. Like, he was just better. He is

1016
01:03:43,954 –> 01:03:47,795
he embarrassed everybody. You know, the, you know, the, the

1017
01:03:47,795 –> 01:03:51,620
the the you know, the story of the, of the when he come when

1018
01:03:51,620 –> 01:03:55,380
he, the, I think it was in the 1984, I think. I don’t

1019
01:03:55,380 –> 01:03:59,204
remember. But Michael Jordan tells this story, because it was when he

1020
01:03:59,204 –> 01:04:02,105
was either a rookie or in his 2nd or 3rd year in the NBA,

1021
01:04:03,525 –> 01:04:07,340
at the all star game. They have the 3 point shooting contest, and, Larry

1022
01:04:07,340 –> 01:04:11,100
Bird walks in in his zip up, walks onto the court in his zip up,

1023
01:04:11,100 –> 01:04:14,860
walks past the Leaders players, walk past the Celtics players, walks past

1024
01:04:14,860 –> 01:04:18,355
everybody. And then you’re talking about Robert Parish, Magic

1025
01:04:18,355 –> 01:04:22,195
Johnson. You talk about all those old boys. Right? Jordan was

1026
01:04:22,195 –> 01:04:25,650
just in the league, and he looks at the entire row of

1027
01:04:25,650 –> 01:04:28,230
town. He goes, who here wants to come in Jesan?

1028
01:04:30,625 –> 01:04:34,465
Goes out, wins the 3 point, wins the doesn’t even take his zip

1029
01:04:34,465 –> 01:04:36,245
up off. Yep.

1030
01:04:40,140 –> 01:04:43,900
Dunn comes in 1st, takes takes

1031
01:04:43,900 –> 01:04:47,660
his award, holds it up above his head, and then keeps a

1032
01:04:47,660 –> 01:04:49,600
zip up on, just walks right back out again.

1033
01:04:51,335 –> 01:04:55,095
That’s brutal. That’s Larry Bird. Yep. Wow.

1034
01:04:55,095 –> 01:04:57,960
Who here wants to come in second? Mhmm.

1035
01:04:59,220 –> 01:05:03,060
Yep. Because you don’t and at that Tom, in the NBA, you

1036
01:05:03,060 –> 01:05:06,120
did not expect a white guy to be that good. You just didn’t.

1037
01:05:07,035 –> 01:05:10,475
Now it opened up the door for Dan

1038
01:05:10,475 –> 01:05:14,240
Majerle and Christian Laettner and Bill Laimbeer and all these

1039
01:05:14,240 –> 01:05:18,000
other guys that wound up being really, really talented and really,

1040
01:05:18,000 –> 01:05:21,220
really good because they worked on their

1041
01:05:21,840 –> 01:05:25,685
craft. Yeah. I

1042
01:05:25,685 –> 01:05:29,145
would love it, and I and I think the franchise is expanding anyway.

1043
01:05:29,845 –> 01:05:32,860
You know, the franchise is expanding. That’s why I said, well, yeah, we have sports,

1044
01:05:32,940 –> 01:05:36,700
but the franchise is expanding away from that. I mean, black people are moving

1045
01:05:36,700 –> 01:05:40,140
into more and more areas, and it’s just eventually, like I said, at a certain

1046
01:05:40,140 –> 01:05:43,695
point, we’re just gonna be Americans. That’s

1047
01:05:43,695 –> 01:05:47,155
coming much to probably Malcolm x’s

1048
01:05:48,175 –> 01:05:51,790
surprise. Well, I don’t know. Because some of his last

1049
01:05:51,790 –> 01:05:54,849
comments, he’s got one on interracial marriage, and he basically

1050
01:05:55,470 –> 01:05:58,995
Yep. Does some delicate dancing to

1051
01:05:58,995 –> 01:06:01,095
avoid having to say, yeah. I was wrong.

1052
01:06:02,835 –> 01:06:06,595
But, you know, gets to the point where he admits, you

1053
01:06:06,595 –> 01:06:10,410
know, that, you know,

1054
01:06:10,410 –> 01:06:13,769
people are people. And so he didn’t have an issue with a man marrying a

1055
01:06:13,769 –> 01:06:17,154
woman or a woman marrying a man regardless of what their colors were, you know,

1056
01:06:17,154 –> 01:06:20,835
the colors of people, which to thankfully, to, you

1057
01:06:20,835 –> 01:06:24,115
know, very many of your listeners may be as basic as what they’re gonna eat

1058
01:06:24,115 –> 01:06:27,530
for dinner. That’s great. But it just not only was it not like

1059
01:06:27,530 –> 01:06:30,910
that, you know, 60 years ago. I mean,

1060
01:06:31,290 –> 01:06:34,465
the Supreme Court decision that,

1061
01:06:36,125 –> 01:06:37,025
struck down,

1062
01:06:40,205 –> 01:06:43,920
racial intermarriage prohibitions on a state level throughout the united states that

1063
01:06:43,920 –> 01:06:47,680
decision isn’t even 60 years old yet, you know, loving v virginia is not 60

1064
01:06:47,680 –> 01:06:51,520
years old yet So, it used to not only be significant for

1065
01:06:51,520 –> 01:06:54,685
very many people used to be the law in very many places

1066
01:06:55,785 –> 01:06:59,244
anyway, yeah, but it’s interesting because

1067
01:06:59,305 –> 01:07:02,780
it take it brings me I believe the comments were made the month before he

1068
01:07:02,780 –> 01:07:06,460
was killed. But it it brings us to a moment where we can

1069
01:07:06,460 –> 01:07:09,645
tie together, you know, his vision that, you know,

1070
01:07:10,605 –> 01:07:14,145
grew over time. And, frankly, I think a commitment

1071
01:07:14,285 –> 01:07:17,185
to certain notions of

1072
01:07:17,960 –> 01:07:21,640
freedom and justice that he had those and thus

1073
01:07:21,640 –> 01:07:24,140
as he became more informed on,

1074
01:07:26,405 –> 01:07:30,105
how well, as he became more informed on human nature,

1075
01:07:30,325 –> 01:07:34,105
he was able to get past that, you know,

1076
01:07:35,490 –> 01:07:37,670
what do I wanna say? Do I wanna say protean?

1077
01:07:40,130 –> 01:07:43,730
But, basically, the the white black

1078
01:07:43,730 –> 01:07:47,555
racial dynamic that Fueled so much of

1079
01:07:47,555 –> 01:07:51,234
of his thought and rhetoric. Okay. He was finally able to get past that and

1080
01:07:51,234 –> 01:07:55,020
see okay. Look There’s more to life here. There’s more

1081
01:07:55,020 –> 01:07:58,800
to humanity here. There’s more to America than just this dynamic.

1082
01:08:00,300 –> 01:08:03,905
And it’s ironic because at that point when he

1083
01:08:04,045 –> 01:08:05,825
began to affirm that,

1084
01:08:07,725 –> 01:08:11,559
What equality means is, you know, you have these other peoples too

1085
01:08:11,559 –> 01:08:15,099
And they have their identities Tom, and they have the same rights as well

1086
01:08:15,559 –> 01:08:19,239
all of a sudden he he actually became dangerous because now you have

1087
01:08:19,239 –> 01:08:23,024
his Background his rhetoric his platform. Okay, you have

1088
01:08:23,024 –> 01:08:26,385
his his to his credit his commitment to

1089
01:08:26,385 –> 01:08:29,880
islam went through

1090
01:08:30,500 –> 01:08:34,260
the Nation of Islam version with their prophet Elijah

1091
01:08:34,260 –> 01:08:37,795
Muhammad, right, to orthodox Islam with,

1092
01:08:37,795 –> 01:08:41,555
you know, Mohammed Mohammed, right, that prophet, from 6,

1093
01:08:42,035 –> 01:08:45,560
1400 years ago. But the

1094
01:08:45,560 –> 01:08:49,399
beliefs held, you know, and he continued to practice continued to pray

1095
01:08:49,399 –> 01:08:52,859
his, you know, one wife and a, you know, I believe they have 5 children

1096
01:08:53,974 –> 01:08:57,335
And so he continued to show that moral

1097
01:08:57,335 –> 01:09:01,094
example, continued to show that commitment to the belief system that he self

1098
01:09:01,094 –> 01:09:04,189
identified with for so long. Okay?

1099
01:09:04,650 –> 01:09:07,070
And now that he saw,

1100
01:09:08,010 –> 01:09:11,850
hey. So all of us in this boat and all of us have these

1101
01:09:11,850 –> 01:09:15,675
rights, not black and white people are in this boat, and we have the same

1102
01:09:15,675 –> 01:09:19,115
rights they do. It’s a very different posture, you understand. But once he got to

1103
01:09:19,115 –> 01:09:21,810
that point, now he was actually dangerous because now he can no longer be a

1104
01:09:21,810 –> 01:09:25,409
mouthpiece for somebody’s for somebody else’s

1105
01:09:25,409 –> 01:09:28,790
political agenda. Okay, the political and the power

1106
01:09:28,850 –> 01:09:32,535
agenda of The people who wanted to to make

1107
01:09:32,535 –> 01:09:35,835
little kingdoms out of just black people whom they could then run and control

1108
01:09:36,295 –> 01:09:40,130
Okay Arguably not very different from a plantation at all in

1109
01:09:40,130 –> 01:09:42,390
very many respects just the color of the master

1110
01:09:43,650 –> 01:09:47,425
anyway at that point he became actually

1111
01:09:47,885 –> 01:09:51,725
dangerous and Then he was killed. It’s just so, you know,

1112
01:09:51,725 –> 01:09:55,025
it does does it I would be shocked if if you know

1113
01:09:55,660 –> 01:09:59,360
evidence were produced, certainly, because it’s, you know, almost 60 years ago,

1114
01:09:59,500 –> 01:10:02,560
59 years ago. Actually, this month, 59 years ago.

1115
01:10:03,195 –> 01:10:06,815
Actually, last week, if I’m not mistaken. 59 years ago. Last week. Yeah.

1116
01:10:06,955 –> 01:10:09,215
Wow. That’s terrible. February 21st.

1117
01:10:10,360 –> 01:10:12,380
RIP to Shabbaz.

1118
01:10:14,840 –> 01:10:18,415
Well, then let’s It’s, yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Well, we’re we’re so I

1119
01:10:18,415 –> 01:10:22,255
wanna well, I I want because this ties into, what we were gonna

1120
01:10:22,415 –> 01:10:25,490
we were going to talk about in the question that we we’ve sort of been

1121
01:10:25,650 –> 01:10:29,270
sort of been answering through the entire, through this entire episode today.

1122
01:10:30,450 –> 01:10:34,185
And I wanna talk I wanna go into this a little bit deeper, but

1123
01:10:34,185 –> 01:10:37,825
let’s go back to the book. Let’s pick up, from Malcolm

1124
01:10:37,825 –> 01:10:41,425
x’s speech, with missus Fannie Lou Hammer. So,

1125
01:10:43,860 –> 01:10:47,240
he gave this speech, at,

1126
01:10:49,460 –> 01:10:52,825
let’s see, in December 1964,

1127
01:10:52,825 –> 01:10:56,344
right, during the time when representatives of the

1128
01:10:56,344 –> 01:10:59,989
Mississippi Freedom Democratic Party toward Northern Humanities seeking moral,

1129
01:10:59,989 –> 01:11:03,350
political, and financial support for their campaign to block the seeding of

1130
01:11:03,350 –> 01:11:06,790
Mississippi’s 5 segregationist US representatives when congress

1131
01:11:06,790 –> 01:11:09,864
convened on convened on January 4, 1965.

1132
01:11:10,725 –> 01:11:14,405
So he he gave this speech in

1133
01:11:14,405 –> 01:11:16,750
response to the

1134
01:11:19,690 –> 01:11:23,230
the the the violence

1135
01:11:24,225 –> 01:11:27,665
that, missus Fannie Lou Hammer, the

1136
01:11:27,665 –> 01:11:31,105
MFDP candidate for congress, had,

1137
01:11:31,505 –> 01:11:35,239
had experienced. And her testimony that she gave before

1138
01:11:35,239 –> 01:11:39,000
congress about racist brutality, that had attracted wide attention at

1139
01:11:39,000 –> 01:11:42,845
the Democrat Party National Convention in August of 1964. So he’s

1140
01:11:42,845 –> 01:11:45,985
giving this speech, in response,

1141
01:11:46,845 –> 01:11:50,525
to, the events that occurred to missus Fannie

1142
01:11:50,525 –> 01:11:54,360
Lou Hammer. And I quote Malcolm x,

1143
01:11:55,220 –> 01:11:59,000
reverend Joseph Coles junior, miss Hammer, honored guests, brothers and sisters,

1144
01:11:59,345 –> 01:12:02,005
and as Drolla pointed out, friends and enemies.

1145
01:12:02,785 –> 01:12:06,245
Also, ABC and CBS and FBI and CIA.

1146
01:12:08,699 –> 01:12:12,540
I couldn’t help but be impressed at the outstart when the freedom singers were

1147
01:12:12,540 –> 01:12:16,335
singing the song, Ohinga Odinga, because Oginga Odinga is one of the

1148
01:12:16,335 –> 01:12:20,175
foremost freedom fighters on the African continent. At the time he visited Atlanta,

1149
01:12:20,175 –> 01:12:23,420
Georgia, I think he was still the minister of home affairs in Kenya. But since

1150
01:12:23,420 –> 01:12:27,260
Kenya became a republic last week and Jomo Kenyatta ceased being the prime

1151
01:12:27,260 –> 01:12:30,800
minister and became the president, the same person you are singing about, Oginga

1152
01:12:30,940 –> 01:12:34,495
Odinga, is now Kenyatta’s vice president. He’s the number 2 man in the

1153
01:12:34,495 –> 01:12:38,255
Kenyan government. The fact that you might be singing about him to me is

1154
01:12:38,255 –> 01:12:41,360
quite significant. 2 or 3 years ago, this wouldn’t have been done. 2 or 3

1155
01:12:41,360 –> 01:12:44,560
years ago, most of our people would choose to sing about someone who was, you

1156
01:12:44,560 –> 01:12:47,965
know, passive and meek and humble and forgiving. Oginga

1157
01:12:47,965 –> 01:12:51,665
Odinga is not passive. He’s not meek. He’s not humble. He’s not nonviolent,

1158
01:12:51,885 –> 01:12:55,340
but he’s free. Oh,

1159
01:12:55,340 –> 01:12:59,179
Gingko Odinga is vice president under Jomo Kenyatta, and Jomo Kenyatta was considered to be

1160
01:12:59,179 –> 01:13:02,445
the organizer of the Mau Mau. I think you mentioned Mau Mau in that song.

1161
01:13:02,605 –> 01:13:05,485
And if you analyze closely those words, I think you have the key to how

1162
01:13:05,485 –> 01:13:09,324
to straighten out the situation in Mississippi. When the nations of Africa are

1163
01:13:09,324 –> 01:13:12,740
truly independent, and they will be truly independent because they’re going about it in the

1164
01:13:12,740 –> 01:13:16,260
right way, the historians will give the prime minister or rather president

1165
01:13:16,260 –> 01:13:20,085
Kenyatta and Mau Mau their rightful role in African history. They’ll

1166
01:13:20,085 –> 01:13:23,685
go down as the greatest African patriots and freedom fighters of the continent ever knew,

1167
01:13:23,685 –> 01:13:26,885
and they will give credit be given credit for bringing about the independence of many

1168
01:13:26,885 –> 01:13:30,360
of the existing independent states on that continent right now.

1169
01:13:30,900 –> 01:13:33,940
There was a time when their image was negative, but today, they’re looked upon with

1170
01:13:33,940 –> 01:13:37,765
respect. And their chief president their chief is the president, and their chief is the

1171
01:13:37,765 –> 01:13:41,445
vice president. I have take I have to take time

1172
01:13:41,445 –> 01:13:45,285
to mention that because in my opinion, not only in Mississippi and Alabama,

1173
01:13:45,285 –> 01:13:48,210
but right here in New York City, you and I could best learn how to

1174
01:13:48,210 –> 01:13:51,650
get real freedom by studying how Kenyatta brought it to his people in Kenya and

1175
01:13:51,650 –> 01:13:54,690
how Odinga helped him and the excellent job that was done by the Mau Mau

1176
01:13:54,812 –> 01:13:58,645
readers fighters. In fact, that’s what we need in Mississippi. In Mississippi, we need a

1177
01:13:58,645 –> 01:14:02,325
Mau Mau. In Alabama, we need a Mau Mau. In Georgia, we need a

1178
01:14:02,325 –> 01:14:06,160
Mau Mau. Right here in Harlem, in New York City, we need a Mau

1179
01:14:06,160 –> 01:14:10,000
Mau. I say it with no anger. I say it

1180
01:14:10,000 –> 01:14:13,680
with very careful forethought. The language you and I have been speaking to this

1181
01:14:13,680 –> 01:14:17,165
man in the past hasn’t reached him, and you can never really get your point

1182
01:14:17,165 –> 01:14:20,364
across to a person unless you learn how to communicate with him. If he speaks

1183
01:14:20,364 –> 01:14:23,360
French, you can’t speak German. You have to know what language he speaks, and then

1184
01:14:23,360 –> 01:14:27,120
speak to him in that language. When I Jesan to missus Hammer, a black

1185
01:14:27,120 –> 01:14:29,905
woman, could be my mother, my sister, my daughter, describe what they had done to

1186
01:14:29,905 –> 01:14:32,705
her in Mississippi. I asked myself, how in the world could we ever expect to

1187
01:14:32,705 –> 01:14:36,385
be respected as men when we will allow something like that to be

1188
01:14:36,385 –> 01:14:39,540
done to our women, and we do nothing about it.

1189
01:14:40,480 –> 01:14:44,160
And then a little bit further down. When I was in

1190
01:14:44,160 –> 01:14:47,505
Africa, I noticed some of the Africans got their freedom faster than others.

1191
01:14:47,824 –> 01:14:51,284
Some areas of the African continent became independent faster than other areas.

1192
01:14:51,824 –> 01:14:55,460
I noticed that in the areas where independence had been gotten, someone got angry. And

1193
01:14:55,460 –> 01:14:58,760
in the areas where independence had not yet been achieved, no one was angry.

1194
01:14:59,300 –> 01:15:02,920
They were sad. They’d sit around and talk about their plight, but they weren’t mad.

1195
01:15:03,415 –> 01:15:06,935
And usually when people are sad, they don’t do anything. They just cry over their

1196
01:15:06,935 –> 01:15:10,614
condition. Now he goes on

1197
01:15:10,614 –> 01:15:14,400
for a bit, and he talks about the Democrat party. By the way, he

1198
01:15:14,400 –> 01:15:18,000
calls them the cracker party. And then a

1199
01:15:18,000 –> 01:15:20,739
little later on, once he breaks that down,

1200
01:15:22,115 –> 01:15:25,875
he talks about the differences between the republicans and the democrats. And

1201
01:15:25,875 –> 01:15:29,230
so a little bit later on, he says this, and I

1202
01:15:29,230 –> 01:15:32,770
quote, they said, don’t rock the boat. You might get Goldwater elected.

1203
01:15:33,550 –> 01:15:36,910
I had this bit of suggestion. Find out what Wagner is going to do on

1204
01:15:36,910 –> 01:15:40,305
behalf of his resolution that you’re trying to get through before January 4th. Find out

1205
01:15:40,305 –> 01:15:44,065
in advance where does he stand on these Mississippi great congressmen who are illegally

1206
01:15:44,065 –> 01:15:47,530
coming up from the south to represent democrats. Find out where the mayor of the

1207
01:15:47,530 –> 01:15:51,310
city stands and make him come out on the record without dillydallying and without compromise.

1208
01:15:51,450 –> 01:15:54,730
Find out where his friends stand on city of the Mississippians who are coming forth

1209
01:15:54,730 –> 01:15:58,285
illegally. Find out where Ray Jones was one of the most powerful

1210
01:15:58,285 –> 01:16:02,045
black Democrats in this city. Find out where he stands before January

1211
01:16:02,045 –> 01:16:05,860
4th. You can’t talk about Rockefeller because he’s a Republican, although he’s

1212
01:16:05,860 –> 01:16:09,619
in the same boat right along with the rest of them. I say so

1213
01:16:09,619 –> 01:16:13,075
I say in my conclusion, as missus Hammer pointed out, the brothers and sisters in

1214
01:16:13,075 –> 01:16:15,795
Mississippi are being beaten and killed for no reason other than they want to be

1215
01:16:15,795 –> 01:16:19,475
treated as first class citizens. There’s only one way to be a first class citizen.

1216
01:16:19,475 –> 01:16:22,830
There’s only one way to be independent. There’s only one way to be free. It’s

1217
01:16:22,830 –> 01:16:26,670
not something that someone gives to you. It’s something that you take. Nobody can

1218
01:16:26,670 –> 01:16:30,350
give you independence. Nobody can give you freedom. Nobody can give you equality or justice

1219
01:16:30,350 –> 01:16:34,175
or anything. If you’re a man, you take it. If you can’t take it, you

1220
01:16:34,175 –> 01:16:37,775
don’t deserve it. Nobody can give it to you. So if you and I want

1221
01:16:37,775 –> 01:16:41,320
freedom, if we want independence, if we want respect, if we want recognition, we

1222
01:16:41,320 –> 01:16:44,120
obey the law. We are peaceful. But at the same time, at any moment that

1223
01:16:44,120 –> 01:16:46,840
you and I are involved in any kind of action that is legal, that is

1224
01:16:46,840 –> 01:16:49,565
in accord with our civil rights, in accord with the courts of land, in accord

1225
01:16:49,565 –> 01:16:52,844
with the constitution, when all these things are on our side, we still can’t get

1226
01:16:52,844 –> 01:16:55,745
it, is because we aren’t on our own side.

1227
01:16:56,780 –> 01:17:00,540
We don’t yet realize the real price necessary to pay to

1228
01:17:00,540 –> 01:17:04,080
see that all these things are enforced where we’re

1229
01:17:04,380 –> 01:17:08,215
concerned. And then later on

1230
01:17:08,215 –> 01:17:11,575
on the next page, and I’ll close with this, they’ve always said that I’m anti

1231
01:17:11,575 –> 01:17:15,350
white. I’m for anybody who’s for freedom. I’m for anybody who’s for justice. I’m

1232
01:17:15,350 –> 01:17:18,870
for anybody who’s for equality. I’m not for anybody who tells me to sit around

1233
01:17:18,870 –> 01:17:22,150
and wait for mine. I’m not any I’m not for anybody who tells me to

1234
01:17:22,150 –> 01:17:25,208
turn the other cheek when a cracker is busting up my jaw. I’m not for

1235
01:17:25,208 –> 01:17:28,536
anybody who tells black people to be nonviolent when nobody is telling white people to

1236
01:17:28,536 –> 01:17:31,864
be nonviolent. I know I’m in a church. I probably shouldn’t be talking like this,

1237
01:17:31,864 –> 01:17:35,320
but Jesus himself was ready to turn a synagogue inside out and upside down when

1238
01:17:35,320 –> 01:17:39,080
things weren’t going right. In fact, in the book of revelations, they got Jesus sitting

1239
01:17:39,080 –> 01:17:41,900
on a horse with a sword in his hand, getting ready to go into action.

1240
01:17:42,215 –> 01:17:45,735
But they don’t tell you what Libby about that Jesus. They only tell you and

1241
01:17:45,735 –> 01:17:49,415
me about that peaceful Jesus. They never let you get down to the end of

1242
01:17:49,415 –> 01:17:52,640
the book. They keep you up there where everything is, you know, nonviolent.

1243
01:17:53,340 –> 01:17:56,380
Now go and read the whole book. And when you get to revelations, you find

1244
01:17:56,380 –> 01:18:00,125
that even Jesus’ patience ran out. And when his patience ran out, he

1245
01:18:00,125 –> 01:18:03,665
got the whole situation straightened out. He picked up the sword.

1246
01:18:08,030 –> 01:18:10,770
That’s that old time religion. That’s brilliant.

1247
01:18:13,630 –> 01:18:17,065
I have Brilliant. To paraphrase from the movie Patton

1248
01:18:17,925 –> 01:18:21,445
by with the great George c Scott when he was yelling about,

1249
01:18:21,685 –> 01:18:25,310
he went to, Corsica or maybe it was Sicily. I can’t remember right

1250
01:18:25,310 –> 01:18:29,070
now. And he was looking at, the results of the

1251
01:18:29,070 –> 01:18:32,825
tank battle, from the German, the German,

1252
01:18:33,065 –> 01:18:36,665
tank commander. I cannot remember his name, but he yells out, I read your

1253
01:18:36,665 –> 01:18:39,965
book. That’s what I thought. That’s what I thought when I read this.

1254
01:18:40,105 –> 01:18:43,640
Rommel. Rommel, I read your book. That’s

1255
01:18:43,640 –> 01:18:47,340
right. And, I don’t know if Patton did. Montgomery

1256
01:18:47,400 –> 01:18:51,160
actually did. Oh, I think Viscount Montgomery of Alameda

1257
01:18:51,160 –> 01:18:54,845
actually did. Did. Like, he he in his tent in North Africa

1258
01:18:54,985 –> 01:18:58,665
had a picture of his enemy in the tent because he was

1259
01:18:58,665 –> 01:19:02,510
that much in the zone. Truly impressive. Not

1260
01:19:02,510 –> 01:19:06,130
that Patton wasn’t. He was, you know, flamboyant, very much an American.

1261
01:19:06,590 –> 01:19:10,305
Very much. And and very effective. And, of course, also bearing

1262
01:19:10,305 –> 01:19:13,364
the seeds of our culture’s issues. And then, you know,

1263
01:19:15,185 –> 01:19:18,679
that, in part, makes it tragic. It does. So, you

1264
01:19:18,679 –> 01:19:22,219
know, Malcolm Jesan leadership. Right? Well, you know,

1265
01:19:22,440 –> 01:19:26,215
all that’s show up and open his mouth. You know?

1266
01:19:26,595 –> 01:19:28,775
Alright. So point I wanna make,

1267
01:19:30,675 –> 01:19:33,895
and I think it’s it’s one it’s one that struck me in reading

1268
01:19:34,100 –> 01:19:37,860
reading that speech, about missus with missus

1269
01:19:37,860 –> 01:19:41,665
Fannie Lou Hammer. And we read the Invisible Man

1270
01:19:42,625 –> 01:19:46,145
and and talked about Nameless. And you mentioned something in that

1271
01:19:46,145 –> 01:19:49,820
episode, which I which which kind of triggered my brain. He

1272
01:19:49,820 –> 01:19:52,699
said what that would be, it would be a different invisible man would be a

1273
01:19:52,699 –> 01:19:56,380
different book if, if

1274
01:19:56,380 –> 01:20:00,135
nameless or the invisible man had opened up one of those letters,

1275
01:20:00,594 –> 01:20:04,275
read what it saw, and then gotten on the train, gone right back to

1276
01:20:04,275 –> 01:20:07,895
doctor Bledsoe with an ax, and just fixed the problem. Right?

1277
01:20:08,150 –> 01:20:11,450
Yep. The Yep.

1278
01:20:11,750 –> 01:20:15,590
Malcolm x is the person that the invisible man transforms into once he’s out of

1279
01:20:15,590 –> 01:20:16,730
Ralph Ellison’s basement.

1280
01:20:21,235 –> 01:20:23,415
Yes. I I see what you mean.

1281
01:20:26,200 –> 01:20:29,960
But he has to get out of that basement first. He does. Which

1282
01:20:29,960 –> 01:20:33,560
is the hardest part. And I think that that’s what Malcolm x

1283
01:20:33,560 –> 01:20:37,284
saw. He saw that or no. That saw. He confused

1284
01:20:37,665 –> 01:20:41,505
nonviolent struggle with Ralph

1285
01:20:41,505 –> 01:20:44,510
Ellison’s Invisible Man and being trapped in that basement.

1286
01:20:45,370 –> 01:20:49,130
Not struggling. Not struggling. Being violent. Right. Just not being

1287
01:20:49,130 –> 01:20:52,875
violent. Just just hanging out, keeping the lights on. Just hanging out. Right?

1288
01:20:53,195 –> 01:20:56,875
And and look. I I even wrote this in my notes. You know,

1289
01:20:56,875 –> 01:21:00,015
nonviolent struggle has always been an anathema to non Christians,

1290
01:21:01,035 –> 01:21:04,780
and and a foolishness to a person who believes that violence is

1291
01:21:04,780 –> 01:21:08,300
the logical response. Right? You know, we preach Christ

1292
01:21:08,300 –> 01:21:12,135
crucified, you know, a stumbling block to, to the

1293
01:21:12,135 –> 01:21:15,815
Jews and foolishness to the Greeks, I believe, was how Paul put it. And

1294
01:21:15,815 –> 01:21:19,415
so, Right. Hold on. Finish the quote. Finish the

1295
01:21:19,415 –> 01:21:23,180
quote. I don’t know the But to we who are being saved, it

1296
01:21:23,180 –> 01:21:26,780
is the power of God. This is the power of God. There you go. There

1297
01:21:26,780 –> 01:21:30,475
you go. But this is

1298
01:21:30,475 –> 01:21:34,235
also why nonviolent struggle really only worked worked. And

1299
01:21:34,235 –> 01:21:37,695
I I put that in air quotes, but worked in, like,

1300
01:21:38,199 –> 01:21:41,580
twice in the 20th century. You know, you had doctor

1301
01:21:42,120 –> 01:21:45,880
Martin Luther King Junior, and then you had Gandhi,

1302
01:21:45,880 –> 01:21:49,295
and that’s really it. That’s it.

1303
01:21:52,955 –> 01:21:56,715
And man, you know, revolutions may be driven initially by the desire to correct

1304
01:21:56,715 –> 01:22:00,420
injustice, but too often they are hijacked by people with other motives. And

1305
01:22:00,420 –> 01:22:04,180
usually those other motives are the 7 deadly sins. Again,

1306
01:22:04,180 –> 01:22:07,825
from that great actor, Morgan Freeman, that great black actor, Morgan Freeman.

1307
01:22:07,885 –> 01:22:10,465
There are 7 deadly sins, de Rolo.

1308
01:22:12,205 –> 01:22:13,505
And, you know,

1309
01:22:19,590 –> 01:22:23,315
the revolutionary is angry at the oppressor. Yes. But they’re also angry at their

1310
01:22:23,315 –> 01:22:26,614
own doctor Bledsoe’s. Mhmm. Oh, yeah.

1311
01:22:26,994 –> 01:22:30,380
And and so Yep.

1312
01:22:31,160 –> 01:22:33,960
And so now you have now we live in a world we live in a

1313
01:22:33,960 –> 01:22:37,340
in a in a Black Lives Matter world. We live in a DEI

1314
01:22:37,400 –> 01:22:40,885
world in America anyway, which I think is the last gasp

1315
01:22:41,905 –> 01:22:45,344
of of nonsense. I I don’t think it’s going

1316
01:22:46,000 –> 01:22:49,119
It will morph into something else. I would bet you money. I’m not a betting

1317
01:22:49,119 –> 01:22:52,420
man. I would bet you money. There will be the new iteration. It will continue

1318
01:22:52,639 –> 01:22:56,455
until Christ returns. Okay. Yes. Yes. Those

1319
01:22:56,455 –> 01:23:00,135
efforts to get everybody’s attention, get everybody angry

1320
01:23:00,135 –> 01:23:03,870
about what really isn’t an issue. Or when it is an actual issue, great.

1321
01:23:03,870 –> 01:23:07,630
Oh, okay. It’s a particular issue. Deal with it. Deal

1322
01:23:07,630 –> 01:23:11,365
with the issue. Okay? The so at the

1323
01:23:11,525 –> 01:23:14,805
protest I was at over the weekend, the woman I was speaking to, one of

1324
01:23:14,805 –> 01:23:18,325
them, we brought up North Charleston. Okay? North

1325
01:23:18,325 –> 01:23:22,160
Charleston refers to one of these incidents where,

1326
01:23:22,480 –> 01:23:25,920
policemen shot and killed a black man. Okay? Then lied about

1327
01:23:25,920 –> 01:23:29,755
it and everything was going one way until a kid shows up with

1328
01:23:29,755 –> 01:23:33,035
a video that shows that this man lied. He said this man was running toward

1329
01:23:33,035 –> 01:23:36,075
him. The video shows the man running the other way and being shot in the

1330
01:23:36,075 –> 01:23:39,580
back and killed. Okay? Policeman was fired. The policeman was

1331
01:23:39,580 –> 01:23:43,340
arrested. The policeman was prosecuted. That’s the system

1332
01:23:43,340 –> 01:23:47,020
working. Right. The jury acquits the

1333
01:23:47,020 –> 01:23:50,595
man. That shows brokenness in the system. Okay? It’s

1334
01:23:50,595 –> 01:23:53,415
really straightforward in terms of the evidence, but okay?

1335
01:23:55,990 –> 01:23:59,750
That’s one thing. That’s a particular circumstance that needs to be dealt

1336
01:23:59,750 –> 01:24:03,290
with. Okay? And, to then take it

1337
01:24:03,805 –> 01:24:07,344
and extrapolate it over the whole country. Now remember where this happened.

1338
01:24:07,725 –> 01:24:11,505
South Carolina, local matters, regionalism

1339
01:24:11,645 –> 01:24:15,140
matters. Okay? Yeah. That’s where the competitors started in South

1340
01:24:15,140 –> 01:24:18,980
Carolina. This happened in South Carolina. K? Tom then extrapolate that throughout the

1341
01:24:18,980 –> 01:24:22,695
whole country, to cover every single incident where

1342
01:24:22,695 –> 01:24:26,074
somebody claims the police did something wrong. It’s just it’s infuriating.

1343
01:24:26,215 –> 01:24:29,860
Right? Right. But it it also obscures the issue. North Charleston,

1344
01:24:29,920 –> 01:24:33,540
that’s a tragedy. That’s an issue that needs to be addressed there.

1345
01:24:33,920 –> 01:24:37,295
You know? And you can’t do that via social media. You can’t do that from

1346
01:24:37,935 –> 01:24:40,495
from a television studio in Los Angeles or wherever. You have to do that on

1347
01:24:40,495 –> 01:24:43,935
the ground in North Charleston living there. You talked

1348
01:24:43,935 –> 01:24:47,600
about paying the price Mhmm. Of the actual

1349
01:24:47,600 –> 01:24:50,960
revolution. That’s some of the price, some of the cost. You know? Okay. If I

1350
01:24:50,960 –> 01:24:54,705
actually care about these people and these issues, I gotta

1351
01:24:54,705 –> 01:24:57,025
put roots in the ground. I gotta put boots not just boots in the ground

1352
01:24:57,025 –> 01:25:00,705
I put roots in the ground like a tree and and that takes the thing

1353
01:25:00,705 –> 01:25:04,440
that’s awesome about trees One of the things they take

1354
01:25:04,440 –> 01:25:07,800
time to grow Writers. There’s no quick fix

1355
01:25:07,800 –> 01:25:11,435
to what happened in in in north charles. There’s no quick fix to

1356
01:25:11,435 –> 01:25:15,055
that. No. You know, I think it could be done in a generation, but

1357
01:25:15,115 –> 01:25:18,095
with the right sacrifice, with the right type of investment,

1358
01:25:18,730 –> 01:25:22,190
with institutions. One of the reasons I don’t find invisible to be like

1359
01:25:22,250 –> 01:25:25,390
Malcolm x is for better or for worse,

1360
01:25:26,345 –> 01:25:29,945
his moment of revelation of change happened when

1361
01:25:29,945 –> 01:25:33,645
he then got integrated into into an institution.

1362
01:25:34,265 –> 01:25:38,110
And it’s the institution of the nation of Islam that gave him

1363
01:25:38,110 –> 01:25:41,730
a platform on upon which he could stand. And then

1364
01:25:41,950 –> 01:25:45,344
with all of his rhetorical brilliance, you know, communicate to

1365
01:25:45,344 –> 01:25:48,945
people and then was leading. He needed an institution. He

1366
01:25:48,945 –> 01:25:52,705
got one from the beginning. Invisible had no institution. The institution

1367
01:25:52,705 –> 01:25:56,420
he was part of was morally bankrupt. Both of them,

1368
01:25:56,420 –> 01:26:00,180
the one in the south and the one in the north. The one in

1369
01:26:00,180 –> 01:26:03,465
the south that was an education institution and the one in the North that was

1370
01:26:03,465 –> 01:26:07,225
a political one. Each of them was morally bankrupt.

1371
01:26:08,105 –> 01:26:11,405
And, you know, it’s it’s more means justifying

1372
01:26:20,560 –> 01:26:23,435
matter Your

1373
01:26:24,055 –> 01:26:27,735
only utility comes from how you will help us achieve our goals. And when we’re

1374
01:26:27,735 –> 01:26:31,210
done with you, we don’t care what happens to you. Turn it over. So You

1375
01:26:31,210 –> 01:26:34,670
know? So what is what is the so

1376
01:26:35,130 –> 01:26:37,469
solutions to problems. Right? Mhmm.

1377
01:26:38,735 –> 01:26:42,495
I am a I’m a, obviously, a partisan for

1378
01:26:42,495 –> 01:26:45,395
Christianity. I believe that that is the thing that

1379
01:26:47,060 –> 01:26:50,679
changes people’s hearts, and changes people

1380
01:26:50,739 –> 01:26:52,440
from, from.

1381
01:26:54,975 –> 01:26:58,355
It changes people, it changes institutions. It’s the most revolutionary

1382
01:26:59,815 –> 01:27:02,115
Tom about revolutionary. It’s the most revolutionary

1383
01:27:03,320 –> 01:27:07,160
religion on the planet, full stop, period. Yep. Full

1384
01:27:07,160 –> 01:27:10,864
stop. Yep. Nothing else gets close. It just doesn’t. And

1385
01:27:10,864 –> 01:27:14,465
I’ll take the Pepsi challenge on it against anybody who’s

1386
01:27:14,465 –> 01:27:17,764
listening to me on that. You can’t find me a more revolutionary

1387
01:27:19,320 –> 01:27:22,140
religion than Christianity. You just you just can’t.

1388
01:27:26,735 –> 01:27:30,015
Here in the west, and we talked a lot about this last year on the

1389
01:27:30,015 –> 01:27:32,515
podcast, but here in the west, we

1390
01:27:33,535 –> 01:27:37,310
we collectively decided we were gonna walk out,

1391
01:27:37,850 –> 01:27:41,690
Frederick Nietzsche’s quote about killing god. Right? We decided collectively

1392
01:27:41,690 –> 01:27:45,425
we were gonna do that over the course of a 100 years. Mhmm. And now

1393
01:27:45,425 –> 01:27:48,065
we’re at the end of all of that. I firmly believe we’re at the end

1394
01:27:48,065 –> 01:27:51,425
of postmodernism, and we’re casting around for something else, and we’re not finding

1395
01:27:51,425 –> 01:27:54,540
it. And the thing that we I believe, fundamentally, I think we have to go

1396
01:27:54,540 –> 01:27:55,520
back to is Christianity,

1397
01:27:58,460 –> 01:28:01,955
but at a very narrow level for black people in America.

1398
01:28:02,595 –> 01:28:06,435
Mhmm. We caught the car of

1399
01:28:06,435 –> 01:28:10,230
racial justice. We caught the car of equal protection under the law. We

1400
01:28:10,230 –> 01:28:13,750
caught the car of broad social acceptance, and even

1401
01:28:13,750 –> 01:28:17,445
interracial marriage. Right? We’ve we’ve caught the cars that we were

1402
01:28:17,445 –> 01:28:20,905
chasing like dogs down the street. We we’ve caught them. Right?

1403
01:28:24,164 –> 01:28:27,770
And there’s no prize for coming in Jesan. And

1404
01:28:27,770 –> 01:28:29,310
I’m worried that

1405
01:28:31,850 –> 01:28:35,645
we have a bunch of people who are riding on

1406
01:28:35,645 –> 01:28:39,485
the coattails of past revolutions and past racisms and past this

1407
01:28:39,485 –> 01:28:42,705
and past that to cover up for their incompetence

1408
01:28:43,530 –> 01:28:46,350
and their, quite frankly, their mediocrity. Mhmm.

1409
01:28:48,490 –> 01:28:51,530
And in my shorts episode that I released this week, one of the things I

1410
01:28:51,530 –> 01:28:55,335
said because I I do lay out a vision for black people, 5 step

1411
01:28:55,335 –> 01:28:59,035
vision for black people moving forward into the future.

1412
01:28:59,330 –> 01:29:03,090
And, you know, it’s all common stuff, but one of the parts of the

1413
01:29:03,090 –> 01:29:06,370
vision is don’t go get a job being a government bureaucrat. We don’t need more

1414
01:29:06,370 –> 01:29:10,145
government bureaucrats. We need more entrepreneurs. Mhmm. Mhmm.

1415
01:29:10,145 –> 01:29:13,745
Don’t don’t go get a government job. Don’t go get a corporate job. Go work

1416
01:29:13,745 –> 01:29:17,345
for a small business. Mhmm. Go go start something from the ground

1417
01:29:17,345 –> 01:29:21,090
up. Do a side hustle. Something. Anything. We

1418
01:29:21,090 –> 01:29:24,870
don’t need more of you in the civil service. Politics will not protect us

1419
01:29:25,090 –> 01:29:25,590
anymore.

1420
01:29:28,815 –> 01:29:32,574
Mhmm. So here’s how this ties into leadership. You mean the government won’t

1421
01:29:32,574 –> 01:29:35,395
protect us anymore? Is that what you mean? I don’t think so. No.

1422
01:29:37,200 –> 01:29:40,340
Either protect us in terms of giving us sinecures

1423
01:29:41,280 –> 01:29:44,915
that are with guaranteed salaries and pensions more protect

1424
01:29:44,915 –> 01:29:48,615
us in terms of even getting, you know,

1425
01:29:48,755 –> 01:29:50,435
justice from a jury. I

1426
01:29:53,540 –> 01:29:56,440
at long last, black people have become just Americans.

1427
01:29:57,620 –> 01:30:01,060
Mhmm. Mhmm. And you can see it most notably in our current

1428
01:30:01,060 –> 01:30:04,385
era in how united everyone is about

1429
01:30:04,445 –> 01:30:07,664
illegal immigration being a real problem. Mhmm.

1430
01:30:10,710 –> 01:30:14,170
Mhmm. Yeah. So

1431
01:30:15,190 –> 01:30:18,410
I guess my question to close out is, what

1432
01:30:19,695 –> 01:30:23,375
what do leaders what should leaders take from Malcolm x? What what can they take?

1433
01:30:23,375 –> 01:30:27,054
What can they use? How can leaders

1434
01:30:27,054 –> 01:30:30,850
solve this problem of what to

1435
01:30:30,850 –> 01:30:34,370
do after you win the revolution, but not in the way you

1436
01:30:34,370 –> 01:30:38,025
expected Tom. Right? Like, you got what

1437
01:30:38,025 –> 01:30:41,705
you wanted Tom paraphrase from Amy Mann, the great singer

1438
01:30:41,705 –> 01:30:45,385
in that song in Magnolia. There’s a great line in that song from the

1439
01:30:45,385 –> 01:30:49,210
1990 film or 1999 film or

1440
01:30:49,210 –> 01:30:53,050
98, maybe, directed by Paul Thomas Anderson, where

1441
01:30:53,050 –> 01:30:56,595
she sings you got what you wanted, and now you can hardly stand it. Like

1442
01:30:59,215 –> 01:31:02,595
Yeah. And I’m dropping pop culture references all over the place in this sucker.

1443
01:31:02,655 –> 01:31:06,300
But what do leaders what can

1444
01:31:06,300 –> 01:31:09,980
leaders learn from Alchemax? Let’s start with that. What can they apply to

1445
01:31:09,980 –> 01:31:13,685
their real lived lives from the words and the statements and

1446
01:31:13,685 –> 01:31:15,465
the speeches of this man?

1447
01:31:17,045 –> 01:31:20,345
Well, he obviously knew what leadership was,

1448
01:31:21,540 –> 01:31:25,160
but one of the most powerful I think one of the most powerful examples

1449
01:31:25,780 –> 01:31:27,880
that we came across in his

1450
01:31:30,015 –> 01:31:33,155
speeches in this book edited by George Brightman.

1451
01:31:33,375 –> 01:31:37,155
Mhmm. Ironically or not, is him talking about

1452
01:31:37,510 –> 01:31:41,270
the mainstream civil rights movement. And what I’m just gonna

1453
01:31:41,270 –> 01:31:44,550
call this section is the Carlyle Group. Okay? And, of course, I’m not referring to

1454
01:31:44,550 –> 01:31:48,265
the financial services entity or,

1455
01:31:48,265 –> 01:31:52,105
you know, private private equity fund, whatever they are. Though they

1456
01:31:52,105 –> 01:31:55,350
take their name from the same place. Okay? The Carlyle,

1457
01:31:56,050 –> 01:31:59,170
aka the Carlyle Hotel. Okay? Even though it’s

1458
01:31:59,178 –> 01:32:02,790
Sorrells, proper name was the Carlyle. Okay?

1459
01:32:03,405 –> 01:32:06,865
He, in about 2 pages, describes, apparently,

1460
01:32:07,005 –> 01:32:10,145
how somebody created a committee

1461
01:32:10,870 –> 01:32:14,170
that they then financed, that they then use to recruit,

1462
01:32:15,270 –> 01:32:18,570
popularize, and then suborn a march on Washington

1463
01:32:19,625 –> 01:32:23,385
So that, like a virus, this committee infected its own

1464
01:32:23,385 –> 01:32:26,845
ideas into the host, and then all of a sudden,

1465
01:32:27,920 –> 01:32:31,440
their version of the movement was what the movement was. And I thought it was

1466
01:32:31,440 –> 01:32:35,280
a brilliant example of how leadership actually works. I thought it was a brilliant

1467
01:32:35,280 –> 01:32:37,865
example. Okay? How,

1468
01:32:39,125 –> 01:32:42,965
a committee of people can lead better than one person in this type

1469
01:32:42,965 –> 01:32:46,680
of sense. Okay? Because it’s not about

1470
01:32:46,680 –> 01:32:50,284
decision making only. There are other aspects to leadership,

1471
01:32:50,440 –> 01:32:53,580
and this committee apparently just they did an excellent job.

1472
01:32:55,545 –> 01:32:59,225
Whether you agree with what they did or not well, actually so my assumption

1473
01:32:59,225 –> 01:33:02,990
is what he’s talking about is relatively accurate. Okay? Mhmm.

1474
01:33:03,150 –> 01:33:05,630
And so whether you agree with what they did or not, Tom me, it was

1475
01:33:05,630 –> 01:33:09,390
a brilliant example of leadership. Okay? And I thought

1476
01:33:09,390 –> 01:33:11,570
that I thought that was worth something, okay,

1477
01:33:13,075 –> 01:33:16,615
As an example of how this worked, and how leadership

1478
01:33:16,675 –> 01:33:20,520
works. Okay? Then there’s

1479
01:33:20,520 –> 01:33:24,280
also the lesson that the leader’s personal life actually matters. Okay?

1480
01:33:24,280 –> 01:33:25,820
One of the reasons that

1481
01:33:28,705 –> 01:33:30,565
one of the reasons that

1482
01:33:32,465 –> 01:33:35,364
Malcolm X had a moral resonance

1483
01:33:36,520 –> 01:33:39,980
is because morally speaking, once he became

1484
01:33:40,120 –> 01:33:43,960
Muslim, his life was pretty clean. Okay.

1485
01:33:43,960 –> 01:33:47,395
One wife, here are the kids, a respectable

1486
01:33:47,855 –> 01:33:51,695
family man who then gets up there and then launches into his

1487
01:33:51,695 –> 01:33:55,260
rhetoric. Right? Just pounding people over the

1488
01:33:55,260 –> 01:33:59,100
head with his rhetoric, around the notion that the

1489
01:33:59,100 –> 01:34:02,815
Tyrian oppression that was that had been plaguing black people, as

1490
01:34:02,815 –> 01:34:06,655
he said, for 310 years, needed to end and needed to end

1491
01:34:06,655 –> 01:34:10,380
now and that we would end it. Whether it was by

1492
01:34:10,380 –> 01:34:14,160
voting or by shooting, we will end it. And so it

1493
01:34:14,540 –> 01:34:18,245
it had he had a force in his life, and the

1494
01:34:18,245 –> 01:34:21,845
things going on in his personal life help explain why he had such

1495
01:34:21,845 –> 01:34:24,825
force. Okay? And then

1496
01:34:25,780 –> 01:34:29,320
what’s his MO for leadership? Well, apparently, it was speech making.

1497
01:34:29,540 –> 01:34:32,500
I don’t see that he did anything else. I don’t see that he did anything

1498
01:34:32,500 –> 01:34:36,285
than show up and talk. Literally. It’s

1499
01:34:36,285 –> 01:34:40,045
brilliant. And not even show up in lecture and you have to get

1500
01:34:40,045 –> 01:34:43,790
through content in a curriculum, not even that. Show up

1501
01:34:43,790 –> 01:34:47,410
and deliver your insights on topic x. Bang.

1502
01:34:47,470 –> 01:34:50,530
Next. Bang. Next. It’s it’s brilliant.

1503
01:34:51,070 –> 01:34:54,785
Okay? And so, but it’s

1504
01:34:54,785 –> 01:34:58,465
not not really brilliant. It’s also leadership. Right? Mhmm. Because

1505
01:34:58,465 –> 01:35:01,800
he gave a voice to what many people were

1506
01:35:02,040 –> 01:35:05,639
feeling, certainly, and what they obviously couldn’t put into

1507
01:35:05,639 –> 01:35:09,480
words as as brilliantly as he did. And it

1508
01:35:09,480 –> 01:35:13,195
caused things to change. And so those are, you know, among

1509
01:35:13,195 –> 01:35:16,875
the measurements for me that show that it’s leadership. Okay? He’s

1510
01:35:16,875 –> 01:35:20,700
giving a voice to people who had these feelings, didn’t know how to put

1511
01:35:20,700 –> 01:35:24,540
them into words, but then it’s provoking action. Okay? He shows up

1512
01:35:24,540 –> 01:35:27,915
and he talks and things start changing. I

1513
01:35:27,915 –> 01:35:31,755
wonder how and we’ll never know, obviously. But I

1514
01:35:31,755 –> 01:35:35,295
wonder what Martin Luther King Junior

1515
01:35:35,410 –> 01:35:39,250
thought of him when they both sat down without cameras around and the other

1516
01:35:39,250 –> 01:35:41,890
followers and all. Like, I wonder what that I would have loved to be a

1517
01:35:41,890 –> 01:35:45,665
fly on the wall for that conversation because and it

1518
01:35:45,665 –> 01:35:47,045
had to happen at least twice because

1519
01:35:49,585 –> 01:35:52,945
what we now know is the FBI and the c not the

1520
01:35:52,945 –> 01:35:56,770
CIA. He he he claims CIA. And maybe they were watching him

1521
01:35:56,770 –> 01:35:59,590
when he went overseas. They probably were. But the FBI

1522
01:36:00,450 –> 01:36:04,245
actively was what had a file open on Malcolm x

1523
01:36:04,245 –> 01:36:07,785
and found nothing, by the way. Nothing. There’s never been

1524
01:36:08,405 –> 01:36:11,800
anything that’s ever been revealed to to to your

1525
01:36:11,800 –> 01:36:15,480
point about anything. I think Hoover was looking for it. Hoover who

1526
01:36:15,560 –> 01:36:18,040
Hoover knew what to look for. By that point, I mean, he would run-in the

1527
01:36:18,040 –> 01:36:21,864
FBI for, like, 20, 30 freaking years. He knew what to look for. Nothing.

1528
01:36:22,324 –> 01:36:25,224
On Martin Luther King Junior, though Mhmm.

1529
01:36:26,164 –> 01:36:29,930
We know there are things the FBI found on him that

1530
01:36:30,150 –> 01:36:33,910
that that if they had been revealed at the time Yeah. Would have

1531
01:36:33,910 –> 01:36:37,715
discredited Martin Luther King Junior from

1532
01:36:37,715 –> 01:36:41,175
doing the work that he did. Okay. We know this for a fact. Yep.

1533
01:36:41,795 –> 01:36:43,975
I wonder if that asceticism

1534
01:36:45,330 –> 01:36:49,110
came through in Malcolm x’s interpersonal interactions

1535
01:36:49,650 –> 01:36:52,630
with, with Martin Luther King, junior

1536
01:36:53,215 –> 01:36:56,655
or or if it was just, you know, 2 gals on a stroll on a

1537
01:36:56,655 –> 01:37:00,275
Sunday. Mhmm. You know, we’re just 2 gals having a chat.

1538
01:37:02,679 –> 01:37:06,280
Yep. Like how much of that personality that was in the

1539
01:37:06,280 –> 01:37:10,120
oratory carried into now? We’re just going to have to sit here and talk

1540
01:37:10,120 –> 01:37:13,805
1 on 1 and figure something out. I always wonder about that with guys like

1541
01:37:13,805 –> 01:37:17,265
that because you’re right. The personality was so strong

1542
01:37:17,725 –> 01:37:20,865
and seemingly unscripted, which means it was natural talent.

1543
01:37:21,130 –> 01:37:24,969
Mhmm. And he would say things, like, as an

1544
01:37:24,969 –> 01:37:28,409
orator will do. He will say things, watch the

1545
01:37:28,409 –> 01:37:32,055
crowd, and then give them more of that. Hitler did the same

1546
01:37:32,055 –> 01:37:34,775
thing. He that’s why he was a great he was he was a great orator.

1547
01:37:34,775 –> 01:37:38,455
I mean, book here. There’s all everything else, please. But, like, he knew how to

1548
01:37:38,455 –> 01:37:42,280
move the crowd. Yep. You know? You cannot take

1549
01:37:42,280 –> 01:37:44,600
that away from him, and he knew how to move the crowd in a way

1550
01:37:44,600 –> 01:37:48,195
that Roosevelt didn’t and Mussolini didn’t. Those guys did

1551
01:37:48,355 –> 01:37:52,035
Churchill probably got close close second on that. Churchill knew how to

1552
01:37:52,035 –> 01:37:55,555
move the crowd, but that’s because Churchill worked on

1553
01:37:55,555 –> 01:37:58,500
it for so long. Right? Mhmm.

1554
01:37:59,780 –> 01:38:01,880
Whereas Malcolm x, man, he

1555
01:38:03,780 –> 01:38:06,945
he seems to have just shot from the hip. He seems to have literally just

1556
01:38:06,945 –> 01:38:10,485
showed up. You point him at a microphone, and that man just goes.

1557
01:38:11,985 –> 01:38:15,739
Mhmm. Yep. But he kept he

1558
01:38:15,739 –> 01:38:18,160
kept learning. Right. He kept learning.

1559
01:38:20,475 –> 01:38:24,074
And, you know, ultimately, I think that led

1560
01:38:24,074 –> 01:38:27,215
him, you know, on a path

1561
01:38:27,990 –> 01:38:31,690
that was certainly more truthful, but was wending

1562
01:38:31,830 –> 01:38:35,610
toward the truth, which is, you know, which is exciting.

1563
01:38:36,485 –> 01:38:39,705
How much do you short. So How much do you think

1564
01:38:40,165 –> 01:38:43,685
do you think that there could have been a rapprochement between him and doctor

1565
01:38:43,685 –> 01:38:44,185
King?

1566
01:38:47,510 –> 01:38:51,190
Without Malcolm X becoming a Christian? I doubt it. Yeah.

1567
01:38:51,190 –> 01:38:55,015
So I found some of his comments. So the the

1568
01:38:55,015 –> 01:38:58,855
comment you quoted where he’s talking about Al Quran, I found

1569
01:38:58,855 –> 01:39:02,155
some of it, what the heck is this? Sorry.

1570
01:39:02,610 –> 01:39:06,309
Some of it, inaccurate.

1571
01:39:06,449 –> 01:39:09,909
And so, let me find it.

1572
01:39:12,505 –> 01:39:16,125
There it is. It’s on page 12. It’s still in message to the grassroots.

1573
01:39:16,184 –> 01:39:19,945
There’s nothing quote there’s nothing in our book, Al Quran, that teaches us to

1574
01:39:19,945 –> 01:39:22,410
suffer peacefully. Sorry, Paul. I believe that’s true.

1575
01:39:23,930 –> 01:39:27,770
It’s the next bits. Quote, our religion teaches us to be

1576
01:39:27,770 –> 01:39:31,370
intelligent, period. Be peaceful, be courteous, obey the law,

1577
01:39:31,370 –> 01:39:35,215
respect everyone, semi colon, close quote.

1578
01:39:35,675 –> 01:39:39,455
I don’t believe that it teaches respect

1579
01:39:39,835 –> 01:39:41,615
for the law that is produced

1580
01:39:44,060 –> 01:39:47,900
in. Right? In in the realm of war, which is one of the ways

1581
01:39:47,900 –> 01:39:51,500
in in in orthodox Islam. The world is divided into 2 pieces.

1582
01:39:51,500 –> 01:39:55,105
Right? Correct. Islam, the realm of peace

1583
01:39:55,405 –> 01:39:59,005
or submission, and then the the realm of war.

1584
01:39:59,005 –> 01:40:02,400
Okay? And so I don’t believe it teaches in the realm of war

1585
01:40:02,860 –> 01:40:06,700
when whoever is sovereign lays down the law and the person is a

1586
01:40:06,700 –> 01:40:10,535
pagan or an unbeliever that you need to obey. I don’t believe that’s what

1587
01:40:10,535 –> 01:40:14,055
it says. And so, I think there’s a

1588
01:40:14,055 –> 01:40:17,870
particular dilemma that Muslims walk who

1589
01:40:17,870 –> 01:40:20,690
live within the west and thus who live within,

1590
01:40:21,630 –> 01:40:25,170
political and social structures that have a Christian base,

1591
01:40:25,915 –> 01:40:29,755
is that you know, how do you navigate that line? And

1592
01:40:29,755 –> 01:40:33,500
you know as as I believe

1593
01:40:33,500 –> 01:40:37,340
is the case with for virtually everyone, you have to ask them to

1594
01:40:37,340 –> 01:40:41,055
find out. Right? It’s just from the outside, I see I

1595
01:40:41,055 –> 01:40:44,675
see a tension there. Okay? And it’s a tension

1596
01:40:44,815 –> 01:40:48,260
that resonates when you hear some of the rhetoric

1597
01:40:48,260 –> 01:40:52,100
coming from other parts of the world where the things that the

1598
01:40:52,100 –> 01:40:55,560
Islamists, as as they’re popularly called now,

1599
01:40:56,165 –> 01:40:59,925
when you you hear and read what they’re saying, that

1600
01:40:59,925 –> 01:41:03,205
tension, all of a sudden, is resonating. It’s like it’s glowing. And it’s like, yes.

1601
01:41:03,205 –> 01:41:07,000
There there’s a tension there. You know? And so there’s different positions that,

1602
01:41:07,000 –> 01:41:10,300
you know, Muslims is within the west take on it. But, anyway,

1603
01:41:11,815 –> 01:41:15,655
this is interesting because that’s like, I I remember reading those comments and saying, oh,

1604
01:41:15,655 –> 01:41:18,715
okay. Agree with the first one. It’s like, nope. Not this one.

1605
01:41:19,460 –> 01:41:22,820
Let’s circle this right here. Somewhere in there are the

1606
01:41:22,820 –> 01:41:26,360
notions that give rise to the necessary

1607
01:41:26,820 –> 01:41:30,565
politicization of Islam. It’s part of the

1608
01:41:30,565 –> 01:41:33,784
DNA of the religion. Right. And so,

1609
01:41:34,324 –> 01:41:37,605
you know, that’s that’s why there are states all over the world that happened to

1610
01:41:37,605 –> 01:41:41,300
be Muslim states, and it’s it’s not an accident. It’s not an accident that happened

1611
01:41:41,300 –> 01:41:44,660
from marocco to indonesia. You know, it’s not an accident. It’s in the

1612
01:41:44,660 –> 01:41:48,485
dna of the of the religion, whereas the dna of

1613
01:41:48,485 –> 01:41:51,844
christianity as it were, is not

1614
01:41:51,844 –> 01:41:55,445
political it is in the bible, you

1615
01:41:55,445 –> 01:41:59,219
know to submit to the governing authorities is there. You know?

1616
01:41:59,600 –> 01:42:02,410
What, x what what

1617
01:42:03,375 –> 01:42:07,155
let’s call him his second name, call him his third name. What,

1618
01:42:08,735 –> 01:42:11,475
mister Al Shabazz said. Right?

1619
01:42:12,930 –> 01:42:16,450
And what he what he was advocating for I would argue was

1620
01:42:16,450 –> 01:42:19,935
merely, you know, calling into

1621
01:42:19,935 –> 01:42:23,695
question the hypocrisies and the systemic oppressions of

1622
01:42:23,695 –> 01:42:27,370
a system where it’s like, you say you’re Christian. Well, do what Jesus said.

1623
01:42:28,010 –> 01:42:31,610
You know? And that would have put it frankly, I would have put it better.

1624
01:42:31,610 –> 01:42:34,490
Okay? You’re a Christian to do what Jesus said. If you do that, we’re good.

1625
01:42:34,490 –> 01:42:37,955
If you won’t do that, do not turn to me and tell me that I

1626
01:42:37,955 –> 01:42:41,315
need to. Okay? Because apparently you’re willing to

1627
01:42:41,315 –> 01:42:44,835
accept that we’re gonna depart from this because this is how you’re really behaving. And

1628
01:42:44,835 –> 01:42:48,659
then would be the devolution back to that

1629
01:42:48,659 –> 01:42:52,179
old time religion. Right? An eye for an eye or tooth for tooth, you know,

1630
01:42:52,179 –> 01:42:55,705
which is Reprisal and vendetta, you know, which is what

1631
01:42:55,705 –> 01:42:59,385
happened with with pashtunwali, okay,

1632
01:42:59,385 –> 01:43:03,150
which is probably my favorite way It’s ever articulated. It’s

1633
01:43:03,150 –> 01:43:06,770
an institution among the pashtun people in

1634
01:43:06,829 –> 01:43:10,610
pakistan and afghanistan and it’s just it’s really fascinating, but it’s basically,

1635
01:43:11,150 –> 01:43:14,815
you know, me against you, you and I

1636
01:43:14,815 –> 01:43:18,655
against our cousin, you and I and our cousin against our uncle, you and our

1637
01:43:18,655 –> 01:43:22,380
cousin and uncle against the next house, against the next street, against the you know?

1638
01:43:22,520 –> 01:43:26,200
But what what is at bottom, right, is a

1639
01:43:26,200 –> 01:43:30,015
mechanism Mhmm. To produce some kind of justice when there’s

1640
01:43:30,015 –> 01:43:33,295
an injury that’s done to someone in that network. And so

1641
01:43:33,375 –> 01:43:36,870
yeah. Old time religion. Well and what’s interesting

1642
01:43:36,870 –> 01:43:40,550
is as we’ve wandered away from old time religion and, again, I’ve

1643
01:43:40,550 –> 01:43:44,305
I’ve I’ve said this before on this episode, but I’ll say it again. I

1644
01:43:44,305 –> 01:43:48,085
think that leaders need a baseline

1645
01:43:48,225 –> 01:43:51,665
of meaning that comes from something deeper than whatever their

1646
01:43:51,665 –> 01:43:55,220
current role may be. And

1647
01:43:55,220 –> 01:43:58,920
that baseline of meaning will keep you either

1648
01:43:58,980 –> 01:44:02,805
as close to pure. Right.

1649
01:44:02,805 –> 01:44:05,525
That yeah. As close to pure as you could probably get this side of the

1650
01:44:05,525 –> 01:44:09,340
grave. And that is a and

1651
01:44:09,340 –> 01:44:12,080
and that’s a lot of weight to put on a system of meaning.

1652
01:44:13,659 –> 01:44:16,380
And I don’t think a non religious system of meaning is gonna be able to

1653
01:44:16,380 –> 01:44:20,105
carry that weight. I just I don’t I don’t I

1654
01:44:20,105 –> 01:44:23,625
don’t I don’t the track record is not good. Let’s just say

1655
01:44:23,625 –> 01:44:27,120
that. The track record is not in the positive. Alright.

1656
01:44:27,120 –> 01:44:30,800
Well, I think we’ve

1657
01:44:30,800 –> 01:44:34,080
covered everything. I think we’ve, we’ve gotten to the end of,

1658
01:44:35,115 –> 01:44:38,715
of our time here together today. So I’d like to thank to Rolo

1659
01:44:38,715 –> 01:44:42,075
Nixon junior, Esquire, for coming on and joining us once

1660
01:44:42,075 –> 01:44:45,830
again on our podcast. He will be

1661
01:44:45,830 –> 01:44:49,670
back in July talking about the

1662
01:44:49,670 –> 01:44:53,050
American founding documents, the USS constitution,

1663
01:44:53,645 –> 01:44:56,925
the Federalist Papers, the USS. It’s not a ship.

1664
01:44:57,085 –> 01:45:00,385
10th. Yes. It’s the ship the ship of state. Yeah.

1665
01:45:01,920 –> 01:45:05,679
And, of course, it’s an election year. Who knows what will be happening?

1666
01:45:05,679 –> 01:45:09,119
We will talk about the ship of state and where it may happen to

1667
01:45:09,119 –> 01:45:12,260
be in July. Hopefully,

1668
01:45:12,260 –> 01:45:14,545
leadership of state will still be floating,

1669
01:45:15,965 –> 01:45:18,864
and I’ll get into that a little bit later. But

1670
01:45:21,470 –> 01:45:25,070
Darula will be joining us in July. So pick up those episodes. Listen to those

1671
01:45:25,070 –> 01:45:28,910
episodes. Listen to the Invisible Man episode. Listen to the episode where

1672
01:45:28,910 –> 01:45:32,005
we talk about, the the global Appalachia.

1673
01:45:34,224 –> 01:45:37,824
We talked about that last year in our constitution and declaration of

1674
01:45:37,824 –> 01:45:41,550
independence episodes. And, of course,

1675
01:45:41,550 –> 01:45:45,150
go out and pick up or go ahead and read

1676
01:45:45,150 –> 01:45:48,210
online the speeches, statements,

1677
01:45:48,935 –> 01:45:52,695
and utterings of Malcolm x and see how you could apply

1678
01:45:52,695 –> 01:45:55,835
those to your real lived leadership life.

1679
01:45:57,010 –> 01:46:00,210
Once again, my name is Ehsan Sorrells. This is the Leadership Lessons from the Great

1680
01:46:00,210 –> 01:46:03,670
Books podcast, and we’re out.