Leadership Lessons From The Great Books – Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury w/John Hill aka “Small Mountain”

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

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leadership lessons from the great books podcast, episode

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number 122.

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With our book today, written by an author who epitomizes

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the idea, the concept, the

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genre of high science fiction, his

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writing in the mid-twentieth century set the gold

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standard, for how literature and genre could overlap each

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other and how a genre of writing could transform from being mere quote

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unquote kids stuff to being something approaching

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high art by the way, along the way

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through transforming a genre, he also wrote screenplays,

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poems, and many, many other works

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along with Isaac Asimov Robert Heinlein and

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the ever cigarette smoking rebel writer,

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Philip K Dick. This writer’s works will be

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read long after the genre of science fiction

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transmutes as it is doing in our own time. And

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before our very eyes into the reality of science,

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fact, through the alchemy of imagination,

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deep in the recesses of engineering minds.

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I’m almost right. Like a sentence, this author might write today on

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the podcast to kick off our late summer and early fall

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tour of the genre of science fiction. We will be

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stubborn and addressing for leaders, The themes inherent

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in Fahrenheit 451 by Ray

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Bradbury. We’ll

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be joined on this March into the literary fire,

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such as it worked with our returning guest host for episode number 98,

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where we cover True Grit by Charles Portis,

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John Hill, AKA “Small Mountain.”

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How you doing, John? Welcome back. Thanks for having me back, man.

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I am so excited to talk about this book

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and because, I don’t know if you’re gonna talk about this, but you put out

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the list of books you wanted to cover. And I said, I wanna do this

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one. Mhmm. Yep. Right? And we’re gonna talk we’re gonna talk about why

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here in a little bit because, yeah, I’m just excited to be back. It

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is it is a book that I have read

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probably at least 2 or 3

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times, in my life. And

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reading it now, the stage of life that I’m at with all of the

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current shenanigans we have going on in the world, in the

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West in general, in the United States in particular. And when we’re recording

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this, we are coming off of a second set of

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shots fired in presidential candidates.

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We are living in perilous times. And while I am a person

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who believes that we will come out of it on the other

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side, I do believe that coming out of it on the other side of it

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is going to be a close run thing. And this book,

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is about, at least in my mind, this book is about what

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happens if you if you don’t come out on the other side of it.

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So we’re going to start with Fahrenheit 451

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by, by Ray Bradbury. Now the version

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that I have is the Simon and Schuster version,

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published, oh gosh, back in, probably

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1995. And while,

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normally, I don’t read directly from copy written books on the podcast,

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you know, particularly ones like this, I don’t think Ray Bradbury’s estate would have a

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problem with this, actually. I think they would

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want people to read this book out loud.

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So for Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury, chapter 1, the hearth

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and the salamander. I’m gonna open up quickly.

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It was a pleasure to burn. It was a special pleasure to see things

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eaten, to see things blackened and changed. But the brass nozzle in

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his fists with this great Python spitting its venomous kerosene upon the world, the blood

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pounded in his head, and his hands were the hands of some amazing conductor playing

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all the symphonies of blazing and burning to bring down the tatters and charcoal

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ruins of history. With his symbolic helmet, numbered

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451 on his solid head and his eyes all orange flame was the

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thought of what came next. He flicked the igniter and the house jumped up in

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a gorging fire that burned the evening sky red and yellow

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and black. They strode in a swarm of fireflies. He wanted

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above all, like the old joke to shove a marshmallow on a stick in the

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furnace while the flapping pigeon wing books died on the porch and

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lawn of the house. While the books went up

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in sparkling whirls and blew away on a wind turned dark with

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burning. Montauk grinned the

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fierce grin of all men singed and driven back by

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flame. He knew that when he returned to the firehouse, he might

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wink at himself. A minstrel man burnt corked in the

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mirror later going to sleep. He would feel

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the fiery smile still gripped by his face muscles in the

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dark and never went away. That smile. It

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never, ever went away. As long as he

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remembered.

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And that’s how we open Fahrenheit 4 51,

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the temperature, by the way, at which books

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burn. As usual, we are going

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to talk, right away. We’re going to gonna delve

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right away into the literary life of Ray Bradbury

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because this guy was a hell of a guy who

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was actually born. And you can tell this by reading his biography on Wikipedia.

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He was born at exactly the right place at exactly the

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right time in exactly the right century to be a

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writer. And I would not call that luck.

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I would call that providence. He was born

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to well, write the things that he wrote and he

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turned his talents to exactly

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where they needed to be. Ray Douglas

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Bradbury or an August 22, 1920 died June

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5th, 2012 was born in Waukegan, Illinois to

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Esther Bradbury, a Swedish immigrant and Leonard

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Spalding Bradbury, a power and telephone Lineman

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of English ancestry.

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Bradbury, attended Los Angeles high school after his parents

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moved around a bit and was active there in the drama club.

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He often roller skated through Hollywood in hopes of meeting celebrities

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among the creative people he met while roller skating through Hollywood were

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special effects pioneer, Ray Harryhausen and radio star

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George Burns. Bradbury’s first pay as a writer at age

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14 was for a joke he sold to George Burns to use on the

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Burns and Allen radio show. And I’m a big fan, by the way, just as

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a pause, of old time radio. That’s one of the things I very rarely talk

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about, but I will listen to old time radio shows. And then the

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Burns and Allen show was was a really good one. The Charlie McCarthy show was

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a really good one back in the day. People forget that,

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drama, comedy, detective stories, science

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fiction, film noir. Radio was the first place for a lot

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of these genres that then transformed or transmuted to television.

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By the way, the basic the biggest example of this of a show that made

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the leap from radio to television was the show

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Dragnet, which everyone forgets about, by the way.

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By the way no. Not by the way. But, this is the memory that Bradbury

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has, or or was quoted about in an interview

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about selling that joke to Burns and Allen.

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He says, I suppose the most important memory he has is of mister Electric Joe.

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On Labor Day weekend, 1932, when I was 12 years old, he came to my

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hometown with the Dill Brothers. He was a performer sitting in an electric

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chair and a stage hand pulled a switch and he was charged with 50,000 volts

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of pure electric. Lightning flash in his eyes as hair stood on

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end. I sat below in the front row and he reached down with a flaming

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sword full of electricity. And he tapped me on both shoulders and the 2 of

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my nose, and he cried live forever. And I thought, God, that’s

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wonderful. How do you do that? So when I left the carnival that day,

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I stood by the carousel and I watched the horses running around and around to

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the music of beautiful Ohio. And I cried Tears

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streamed down my cheeks because I knew something important had

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happened to me that day because of mister electrical. I felt changed.

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And so I went home and within days I started to write

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and I’ve never stopped.

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Bradbury cited, Vern’s Jules, Vern, and.

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My agent G Wells as his primary science fiction influences. He identified

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with Vern saying, quote, he believes the human being is in a strange situation

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in a very strange world. And he believes that we can triumph by

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behaving morally. It’s

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very important, by the way, to remember about Bradbury’s

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writing more so than Asimov who was sort of

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neutral on morality in his writing or even Heinlein

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or Philip K. Dek who was more bitter and cynical and

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sarcastic. Bradbury was a mid

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century moralist. He still believed in Christian

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morality. He still believed that you could actually find

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good in people and that we had a responsibility to

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dig that out. In regard to his education,

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however, Bradbury said, and this relates directly to Fahrenheit, 4 51

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quote, libraries raised me. I don’t believe in colleges and

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universities. I believe in libraries because most students don’t have any

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money. When I graduated from high school, it was during the depression and we

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had no money. I couldn’t go to college. So I went to the

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library 3 days a week for 10 years. So I graduated

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from the library when I was 28 years old.

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I, you know,

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when I read about guys like Ray Bradbury and when I read

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about how impactful

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things like the depression and world war 2, and Philip K. Dick was

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very impressed by the dropping of the bomb on Hiroshima and

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Nagasaki. So was Heinlein, quite frankly,

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as was Isaac Asimov. Most of the folks who

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wound up being science fiction writers at the end or the mid parts of

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the end of 20th century, they were

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seeking a way to, I think,

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merge science and morality together while also

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recognizing that the human condition is fraught with danger.

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And Bradbury, I think, got closest

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to touching on the positive aspects of that. And even

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in Fahrenheit 451, a book that is about not positive

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things, he it’s not a

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happy ending, but the ending is definitely hopeful. Let’s

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just say that. So, again, you know, I’d

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like to welcome John to the podcast. I’ve rambled long enough as I usually

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do. So I’m gonna open up the floor to him. And by the way, I’m

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in my new podcast studio, so in case you’re watching this on video. No. I

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did not just graduate into a black room, such as a red shirted man in

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a black room. I actually have a new podcast studio, on location

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in, in the town in which I live, and we’ll have a little more details

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about that. It’s subsequent to podcast, but this is the this is

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the beginning. This is the grand opening. This is the

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gala event such as it were, for our, for our

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recording today. So we’re gonna work out some technical things, and

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we invited John along to, to help us out with that as well as talk

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about the book. But, let me open up the question here for

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John. I know that you were very, very excited

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to read this book. So talk about Ray Bradbury, talk about Fahrenheit

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451 and its impact, specifically on your worldview,

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as a I consider you to be a sales leader, but think about yourself

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in in the role in which you’re in. Talk about the impact of

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this book. So,

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man, I love that you’re talking about Heinlein

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Asimov, Philip k Dick. Right? Because I

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was in I think I was in 8th grade whenever a woman, a

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girl at the time that I was in school with, her name is Laura Franek.

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She works for, I think,

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like, Industrial Light and Magic is who she works for now. Right? So she’s done

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some some very cool things. But she comes to me, and she goes, hey. You

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need to read this book. And I and I had a crush on

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her, and I was like, oh, okay. Cool. I’ll read the book, but we’re also

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friends. You know? So I read this book, and, I’d already read

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Heinlein. Right? A lot of Heinlein. You know? Strange in a

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strange land, Job, you know, number of the beast. You know?

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I’d read lots of Geralt. Right? And I like what you’re

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talking about here because I didn’t really appreciate it until I was rereading it this

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this next time. He’s actually trying to keep it

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very artful. Mhmm. Yeah. Not just like a story filled with a

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bunch of, like, numbers and a theoretical way of thinking about a

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scientific thing that they’re excited to show off. It’s not it’s not really the place

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for, like, nerds to go get lost and, and to do this thing. It is

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very much a bridge between, you know, very science

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fiction, very much in the future, but it’s still

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prose. It’s still very much a piece of writing.

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And hitting this now, I, you know, I was probably

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13 or 14 when I read this. I think I probably read it again at

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some point in high school, and then I I don’t think I’ve read it since

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then. You know?

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And reading it now as an adult, I’ve been having this

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weird season of really appreciating how

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much being a self motivated reader

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has led me to the place that I’m at right now. Mhmm.

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You know? Like, I don’t really think about how much I read

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and how much I ingest and how that shows up in my in my

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coaching and my working with clients and stuff like that, but, like, we both live

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in small towns in Texas, man. Like, I’m like, I live I live

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in a suburb called white settlement, which is, like, what a name.

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Right? Can you imagine going back 25 years ago when there is no

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Internet and the only source of news that you have is what the local

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paper creator wants to put in front of you or the news and everything?

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Like, that seems such a foreign concept now. Even though we’re getting

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a new version through, you know, AI prompts and and

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search results and, you know, you know, reinforcing our own biases, but that’s a whole

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other conversation. That’s a whole that’s a whole wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

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Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait.

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Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. We may get to some of that today, but that’s a

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whole other thing. But this idea of, you know, like, I’ve been thinking about

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this for a couple of weeks. How different would I be had I not read

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Heinlein at 9 years old and David Garrold, who like,

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I remember my brother coming to me with a stack of 5 books,

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and number of the beast was one of them. Job was one of them. And

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then David Gerold, which was you know, he’s a gay man writing about alien

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invasion on the planet of Earth. Mhmm. And and he goes, don’t

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tell mom you’re reading these books. That was the only thing he saw that’s the

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only thing he told me. Right? So now I’m reading these books that are way

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too old for me, and I’m getting introduced to these ideas, like,

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probably way before most other people are.

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You know? How does that impact me? Right? And then my thing

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now is anything that where I think I’m deficient and I need to go

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improvement, 1st place, I’m gonna go buy some books.

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We’re doing a customer service project for one of our clients and first thing is

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like, I have a lot of opinions about service, but let me go see what

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pros are talking about so that way I don’t have to recreate the wheel or

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start all the way over. Mhmm. And now it’s this first step. It’s this first

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pivot. I’m gonna go look I’m gonna go see the other books that other people

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are talking about. I’m gonna go dive into those books, not to completely learn the

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whole thing because I do have some positions and perspectives on it because I’ve been

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doing this for a while, but why would I try to start all the way

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at 0? You know? And I think for I think

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when we’re young and we’re, like, new in leadership and entrepreneurship, however you

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wanna package that, it’s very easy to be like, well, my stuff is not like

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anybody else’s. Right? And we create this island for us to hang out on that

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doesn’t really serve us. Right? Because, you know, while it’s not the

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same, variations on a theme start to apply. You know?

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So I’ve been I’ve been reading this book and on some

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level kind of frustrated because I do read so much for just business and for

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Mhmm. And for improvement. Like, come on. Can we

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get through, like, the fancy art prose stuff and, like, let’s just get to the

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meat of it and everything? And so I had this kinda weirdoality of, like, I

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needed to kinda, like, find the right gear to actually, like, you

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know, work through the book. So that took me a couple of

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days. But the whole time, I’m just, like, appreciating it of, like,

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kinda, I would be fundamentally a different person if it not for all the

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reading that I do. And I wouldn’t be able

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to charge the rates that I charge if I didn’t feel like I could find

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my way to the answer, but it’s always through books and literature. It’s interesting

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that you say that because that’s part of the reason why we do this podcast.

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Right? Mhmm. Exactly. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Business books were

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great. I’m not knocking business books. That’s fine. But

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there’s a whole 400 and I

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mean, so book technology, and we can talk a little about this too. Book

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technology in and of itself is a 500 year old approaching 600 year old

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technology. Business books,

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books exclusively focused on sales, marketing, finance,

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operations, my area, psychology.

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Well, this is in those quote unquote business specific areas that only really started

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to ramp up within the last 100, 100 and 50 to

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a 100 years of, of book technology. The

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vast majority, 4 5ths of book technology, 80%,

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well over 80%, 90% of books. Before that, we’re focused

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on everything else other than business. And that’s one of the points of this

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podcast is if you’re just reading business books, you’re

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missing out on, like, 90% of everything else in the world.

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And I don’t I I I mean, I’ve said it before. You

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can learn more about emotional intelligence from reading a Jane Austen novel. Just discipline

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yourself to read pride and prejudice. Don’t go read another Daniel Goleman book. And I

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don’t have a problem with Goldman by the way. I’ve read emotional intelligence. I’ve read

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it many times. It’s dog eared. I’ve got it. But

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Goldman can only tell you the mechanical, and this is where the science fiction piece

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comes in. He He can only tell you the mechanical stuff of how it clicks

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together and why, but he can’t tell you the what of the wisdom of

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the meaning underneath that. So you need both of those together. That’s why we do

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this podcast. But then the other thing I love that you said, I

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talked about how you started off with, like, you know, Heinlein

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and Garwalt and all these guys, right, early. Right?

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Weirdly enough, I started off with Isaac Asimov. That’s

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where I I mean, I read we’re gonna do I, Robot, later

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on a little bit this month. I started out with that book and going back

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and rereading that has been kind of a

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little bit trippy. Yeah. Because I started off with that’s the place I

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started off with. And so Asimov is definitely less of a

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moralist and more and less focused on the poetry and more

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focused on the the reportage of science

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fiction. And I didn’t get to Heinlein until I was in high school,

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and I was already sort of, I don’t

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know, warped in my cynicism about humanity. I mean, I already seen Blade Runner, so

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it already affected me.

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But I also had a good bit of, like, Star

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Trek the next generation underneath me. Absolutely. And so I

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came to Heinlein with this mid century

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moralism, and Heinlein sort of was like Yeah. Not

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yeah. You can take all that gonna help us. To vote out. We’re talking about

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everything outside of that container, if you will.

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Right? Space travel and time travel and, you

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know, some crazy stuff.

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Right? Like Right.

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Okay. Well, then you got Philip k. Dick asking, asking a great question, which

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again, we’re gonna read Dick’s short stories here on the podcast to this podcast.

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You know, do androids dream of electric sheep? Like the first time I heard

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that title, and this is just after I, yeah, just after

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I seen Blade Runner. So I saw the movie first, and then I went back

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and read the book. And I was like, what who comes up with that? Who

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even thinks like that? That’s not Ray Bradbury. Right? Ray

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Bradbury would have looked at that and been like, yeah. He’s

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got talent, but I have no idea what’s going on over there. Yeah. It’s, like,

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it’s it’s I think Bradbury is is sci fi

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for people who don’t who have not made the decision that they love sci fi

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yet. Right? Yep. I know. Especially towards the

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end when he’s going again talking about the Beatles and and, like,

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like, I’m, like, like,

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in the, you know, I’m in the wrap up phase phase phase of the book.

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Right? And I’m not gonna give away any spoilers, but, you know, he’s talking about

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the Beatles and, you know, the hound and all of this stuff. And I was

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like, god. Like, can we stop being so artsy? Can we just call it what

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it is and everything? And then I’m like, wait a minute. Like, shut up, idiot.

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Like, this is art. Like, you wouldn’t want someone else coming over your art and

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doing all this stuff. So just shut up and enjoy it, you know? And it

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was I demand work. Book, if you will, you know?

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Don’t cook. Right? As kids say these days. It it was because, like, I had

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the same kind of situation a little bit with TrueGrid of, like, god, like, this

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00:22:02,730 –> 00:22:06,409
part wait a minute. It’s a story, dude. You know? Like, I’m

357
00:22:06,409 –> 00:22:10,205
so captain literal that sometimes I’m like, this would never really have. Oh, wait.

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We’re kind of living through a version of this potentially right now. That’s very odd

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and interesting. And, my wife who works on my

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team, she worked at Half Price Books for 15 years before she started to work

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with me. Okay. Price is known for, like, pushing back

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against banned books and everything. Mhmm. This has been a topic we’ve talked

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about, and we talk about a lot of just, like, you know, we’re not gonna

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limit the flow of information and everything. I’m

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curious. Are your kids

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readers? Oh, yeah. Yeah?

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Oh, yeah. How much do you police what they read?

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So I always get asked this question, and I think it’s a

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parent’s job to know what a child is reading. And I also

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think it’s a parent’s job to just like they would with a television show

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or movie to understand that

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individual child’s emotional temperament and how that book is going to

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impact that emotional temperament. And so

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my mom was very much free range because she was, she’s a baby

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boomer. She was very much free range. She wasn’t really, I’m not going to say

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she wasn’t paying too close attention, but she believed

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in the freedom of availability to information and how, what could,

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how could a book harm you? It was just a set of ideas. Right? Yeah.

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I come at it from a different perspective because I’m on the bottom end of

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gen X. Right. And so I come at it from the perspective

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of, yeah, there’s ideas in these books, but if your

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emotional temperament doesn’t match your ability to sort of deal with these

383
00:23:41,315 –> 00:23:44,835
things, then I’m giving you a loaded bomb. Like I would never read,

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let me pick something. I would not give

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00:23:51,910 –> 00:23:55,670
Fahrenheit 451 to my he’s

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he’s 7 now. So when he turns 9, I probably wouldn’t give it to my

387
00:23:58,230 –> 00:24:01,750
9 year old just because I know his temperament. Right? Mhmm. It would it would

388
00:24:01,750 –> 00:24:05,530
deeply upset him. Like, something with seismic would move inside of him

389
00:24:06,095 –> 00:24:09,935
that quite frankly I’m not ready for it to move inside of him. You

390
00:24:09,935 –> 00:24:13,615
know, and then that’s and I get it. That’s that’s my comfort zone.

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00:24:13,615 –> 00:24:17,295
I absolutely am acknowledging that. But with that being said,

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my 14 year old and my 19 year old have both read Fahrenheit 451 and

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we’ve talked about it. And they read it when they were I mean,

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my 14 year old read when she was 12. My 19 year old read it

395
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when she was, like, 16. And they both had different opinions about the book.

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My 16 year old was She was kind of okay with it. She was like,

397
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okay, well, whatever. Because she’s, you know, they’re they’re Gen Z or so like,

398
00:24:39,245 –> 00:24:42,445
okay. Yeah. I don’t read books anyway. I’m just Okay. What are we doing here?

399
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Why do I need a book when I have this? They’re like, they’re not even

400
00:24:45,325 –> 00:24:48,605
seeing that that this is easier to limit and show what the books are. Well,

401
00:24:48,605 –> 00:24:51,690
and we and we limit and I love it. We’re gonna talk about the screens

402
00:24:51,690 –> 00:24:55,370
and everything. We limit the screens. So we’re we’re biblio

403
00:24:55,370 –> 00:24:58,830
files. Like one of the challenges in our home

404
00:24:58,970 –> 00:25:02,730
that we now moved into. And one of the challenges I

405
00:25:02,730 –> 00:25:06,465
see in a lot of homes is there’s no bookshelves. We’ve got so many books.

406
00:25:06,605 –> 00:25:10,205
We have more books than we have furniture. We did

407
00:25:10,205 –> 00:25:13,725
this the other day. You know, multiple genres. Oh my oh,

408
00:25:13,725 –> 00:25:16,684
gosh. All kinds of things. Right? And it’s like, where do where do I put

409
00:25:16,684 –> 00:25:20,059
all this? Like, what are we what are we doing here? And my wife is

410
00:25:20,059 –> 00:25:22,720
even like, you gotta give away some of these books. Like, I gotta read it.

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00:25:24,299 –> 00:25:27,740
My we moved into this house a year ago and we have a rather large

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00:25:27,740 –> 00:25:31,565
book collection. And even within that family book collection, there’s

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00:25:31,565 –> 00:25:35,085
different book collections. There’s the books that Melissa displays on the

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00:25:35,645 –> 00:25:39,485
now we have a wall of shelves, which is really, really nice. Very like,

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00:25:39,485 –> 00:25:42,125
maybe the coolest thing I’ve ever done. And now, like, I’m just used to it.

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And then as other people come over, they’re like, oh, like, it’s it’s super

417
00:25:45,840 –> 00:25:49,600
nice. And then I have my library. And my library is the non

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public facing books. Right? So it’s all the kung fu books and the philosophy

419
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and the all this stuff. Like, if you know me really well, I feel like

420
00:25:56,960 –> 00:26:00,500
you can look at my library, my my personal library, and be like,

421
00:26:00,815 –> 00:26:03,554
oh, well, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Me.

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00:26:04,735 –> 00:26:07,455
But, we were moving in here, and my wife was like, I don’t think we

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need to hire movers. And I was like, oh, you don’t think we need to

424
00:26:10,895 –> 00:26:13,215
hire movers? And she’s like, yeah. No. No. I think we can do it. I

425
00:26:13,215 –> 00:26:16,630
was like, cool. Let’s pack the books first, and then we’ll make that

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00:26:16,630 –> 00:26:20,310
decision. Right? So let her go with it for a while. And then we’ve

427
00:26:20,710 –> 00:26:24,390
it’s 26 boxes of books. Right? Yep. And I’m

428
00:26:24,390 –> 00:26:27,670
like, how do you feel now? She’s like, oh, yeah. Movers. Oh, yeah. You were

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hiring people. Yeah. And it was so funny because, like, just over the

430
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weekend, my daughter who’s really getting into writing and her own

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book collection, like, she’s buying copies of books that that

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Melissa and I own because she wants her own copy for her own. And she

433
00:26:41,720 –> 00:26:44,280
goes, you know, like, I I have a I have a pretty small book collection,

434
00:26:44,280 –> 00:26:47,960
but she has, like, 200 books, which is, like, not a small

435
00:26:47,960 –> 00:26:51,800
book collection. Book collection. Because, like, I think it’s I

436
00:26:51,800 –> 00:26:55,240
think you’re I think you’re a 1 percenter if you have more than, like, 50

437
00:26:55,240 –> 00:26:58,555
books. We right. Weird. Yo. Well, yeah.

438
00:27:00,055 –> 00:27:02,615
I’ll tell you about about the finish finish your your circle because I’m gonna tell

439
00:27:02,615 –> 00:27:05,975
you something that, like, frustrates me. Go ahead. Like, it it’s it’s crazy to

440
00:27:05,975 –> 00:27:07,115
me just,

441
00:27:09,760 –> 00:27:12,580
like, like, the curse of knowledge. Right? Right.

442
00:27:13,840 –> 00:27:17,380
How can we get to be our agent only have, like,

443
00:27:18,000 –> 00:27:20,420
25 or 50 books that you

444
00:27:21,775 –> 00:27:25,215
wanna have an ongoing relationship with. You know you know what I’m saying? Like like,

445
00:27:25,215 –> 00:27:28,975
my grandmother used to say this thing, and she’s the one who really unlocked reading

446
00:27:28,975 –> 00:27:32,655
with with me and and everybody in my family is that these were her

447
00:27:32,655 –> 00:27:35,855
friends. You know what I’m saying? And I can’t

448
00:27:36,095 –> 00:27:39,559
like, there there are so many impactful books on my shelves that have

449
00:27:39,559 –> 00:27:42,919
fundamentally, like, changed and given me perspective and everything. And,

450
00:27:42,919 –> 00:27:46,460
like, only having 25 like, that seems

451
00:27:46,600 –> 00:27:50,360
crazy. There was an article I read in or even might have

452
00:27:50,360 –> 00:27:54,025
been the headline. I don’t remember specifically. And I think it was in the Atlantic.

453
00:27:54,025 –> 00:27:57,705
It had to be one of those like mid

454
00:27:57,705 –> 00:28:01,544
tier, and yes, I’m going to slam the Atlantic here, mid tier,

455
00:28:01,544 –> 00:28:05,385
midwit journals. It is. It’s a journal for people who think they’re

456
00:28:05,385 –> 00:28:09,000
smart, but they’re really not. Because there’s not really good ideas in

457
00:28:09,000 –> 00:28:12,440
there. But anyway, whatever. Point is, I read the headline or it might have been

458
00:28:12,440 –> 00:28:16,039
an article, something about how, like, and this was back maybe

459
00:28:16,039 –> 00:28:19,880
in 2020 or 2021, about

460
00:28:19,880 –> 00:28:22,460
how if you were reading to your child,

461
00:28:23,715 –> 00:28:26,055
that was a sign of white privilege.

462
00:28:28,835 –> 00:28:30,295
And I just thought

463
00:28:32,675 –> 00:28:36,275
libraries literally are almost on every street

464
00:28:36,275 –> 00:28:40,020
corner Bookstores. You talk about your wife. We’re getting half price books. You

465
00:28:40,020 –> 00:28:43,640
can walk into bookstores and they will not kick you out for reading a book.

466
00:28:43,860 –> 00:28:47,700
They will not. They will not. They’re there. They’re just happy. You’re there.

467
00:28:47,700 –> 00:28:51,380
You have Amazon say what you want about Jeff Bezos may have started

468
00:28:51,380 –> 00:28:54,765
with books Mhmm. Because they were the one piece of

469
00:28:54,765 –> 00:28:58,465
technology. And by the way, this is the apocryphal story.

470
00:28:58,845 –> 00:29:01,725
He packed up everything in his car with his wife and drove across the country

471
00:29:01,725 –> 00:29:03,405
and they had to figure out what they were going to put on this online

472
00:29:03,405 –> 00:29:06,125
thing because he saw this internet thing happening and the book is the thing to

473
00:29:06,125 –> 00:29:09,500
be picked because it’s not fruit and it’s not pets. It’s not weird

474
00:29:09,500 –> 00:29:12,400
shapes, everybody knows what it is, it’s easy to,

475
00:29:13,740 –> 00:29:16,159
okay. Books, fundamentally books.

476
00:29:19,020 –> 00:29:22,845
Even in the poorest neighborhoods in America, you can

477
00:29:22,845 –> 00:29:26,445
literally go 2 streets over and there’s a library. I

478
00:29:26,445 –> 00:29:29,505
know I’ve lived in some of the poorest areas of the country.

479
00:29:32,045 –> 00:29:35,645
Books are not closed to anyone in our society and

480
00:29:35,645 –> 00:29:39,350
culture unless you wanna close that door. So

481
00:29:39,649 –> 00:29:43,090
to tie it into number 1, I’m offended because as an

482
00:29:43,090 –> 00:29:44,549
African American person,

483
00:29:48,850 –> 00:29:52,634
books are agnostic from my perspective anyway. Certain

484
00:29:52,634 –> 00:29:56,315
books are agnostic. Other books are not. I’ll I’ll grant you that. Yep. But for

485
00:29:56,315 –> 00:30:00,075
the most part, authors just wanna tell a story. They’re not really

486
00:30:03,430 –> 00:30:05,590
they just want to tell a story. They want to tell the best story they

487
00:30:05,590 –> 00:30:09,350
possibly can to the widest number of people they possibly can with a 500 year

488
00:30:09,350 –> 00:30:13,190
old technology that everybody understands. That’s number 1. Number 2, when

489
00:30:13,190 –> 00:30:16,170
I told this to a young couple who was in my church,

490
00:30:17,135 –> 00:30:20,015
oh gosh, years ago when they were having their first kids and they were like,

491
00:30:20,015 –> 00:30:23,135
how do you, how did you raise your kids to be like, how to speak

492
00:30:23,135 –> 00:30:26,815
so clearly and to be articulate and that. And I’m like, because

493
00:30:26,815 –> 00:30:30,590
we read to them, Like I even read to my

494
00:30:30,590 –> 00:30:33,730
7 year old, we’re reading the Chronicles of Narnia right now.

495
00:30:34,830 –> 00:30:38,590
My 7 year old is loving that. Now, you know, it’s me

496
00:30:38,590 –> 00:30:42,429
and his older sister and his mom reading it. Like we’re in sort of

497
00:30:42,429 –> 00:30:45,695
this weird rotation because just how the schedule work and all that in our house.

498
00:30:45,835 –> 00:30:48,955
And so depending on who he can get, you know, he’ll have them read

499
00:30:49,195 –> 00:30:51,915
There’s times I have no idea what’s going on in the voyage of the Dawn

500
00:30:51,915 –> 00:30:54,875
Treader. Like, I don’t know where I’m at. I’m just like, dude, I’m just reading

501
00:30:54,875 –> 00:30:58,495
this. I have no clue what’s happening, dude. And he’s like, don’t worry, daddy.

502
00:30:59,360 –> 00:31:03,040
Just read it. Exactly. No. No. It’s literally This is not you.

503
00:31:03,040 –> 00:31:06,580
Exactly. He pats my cheek. Just just just read the book, daddy.

504
00:31:07,680 –> 00:31:10,960
It’s like, okay. That’s fine. I will read the words. I have no idea what’s

505
00:31:10,960 –> 00:31:14,765
happening in the story, and you know. Mhmm. And he is blown

506
00:31:15,225 –> 00:31:18,905
away by this. Yeah. It’s opening up again,

507
00:31:18,905 –> 00:31:22,745
opening up doors in his head. Now say what you want about CS Lewis,

508
00:31:22,745 –> 00:31:26,105
by the way, I would not read the screw tape letters or mere Christianity to

509
00:31:26,105 –> 00:31:26,605
him.

510
00:31:31,100 –> 00:31:34,940
Or the abolition of man. That’s not appropriate for a 7

511
00:31:34,940 –> 00:31:38,240
year old. Sorry. But hold on.

512
00:31:38,700 –> 00:31:42,385
Like, and my my amazing wife would

513
00:31:42,385 –> 00:31:46,145
have this, like, fit all the time about,

514
00:31:46,145 –> 00:31:49,665
yeah, it’s a science

515
00:31:49,665 –> 00:31:53,505
fiction, but not young adult. Right? And, like, how do you cut the onion and

516
00:31:53,505 –> 00:31:57,310
how do you group things? Like like, it’s very interesting because, you know, I

517
00:31:58,010 –> 00:32:01,390
think, you know, we’re gonna punish authors for trying to cover more

518
00:32:01,530 –> 00:32:05,290
more more content as opposed to staying in one line so that way it’s easy

519
00:32:05,290 –> 00:32:08,650
to shelve in the bookstore. That’s a little absurd. Right? Speaking as

520
00:32:08,650 –> 00:32:12,495
someone who’s, you know, written a business book and is now currently trying

521
00:32:12,495 –> 00:32:16,015
to write a narrative, like, screw you, buddy. I’m gonna I’m gonna write what I

522
00:32:16,015 –> 00:32:19,855
wanna write. You know? Yeah. Like, I I would love to have

523
00:32:19,855 –> 00:32:23,475
seen Cinderella brought to you by James Baldwin.

524
00:32:24,960 –> 00:32:27,840
I’d have read that, but I don’t know that I had my 9 year old

525
00:32:27,840 –> 00:32:30,240
would have been interested in that. My 9 year old would have looked at that

526
00:32:30,240 –> 00:32:33,600
and been like, I think I’ll

527
00:32:33,600 –> 00:32:37,440
pass. You know? So there’s this line that I used to

528
00:32:37,440 –> 00:32:41,174
hate. Right? And it’s if the if

529
00:32:41,174 –> 00:32:44,554
the book is bad and you can’t read it, it’s the author’s fault.

530
00:32:45,174 –> 00:32:48,635
And I was like, I kinda hate that. You know?

531
00:32:49,015 –> 00:32:52,475
But, you know, the longer I live,

532
00:32:53,080 –> 00:32:56,140
you know, as an author, the more I’m like

533
00:32:58,360 –> 00:33:02,120
right? Well well ownership. It’s my fault if you didn’t finish it. You

534
00:33:02,120 –> 00:33:05,720
ain’t? Well, but I think so I’m a person who has written 3 books, and

535
00:33:05,720 –> 00:33:09,205
I’m working on a 4th one. I’m grinding out a 4th one. Right? It’ll

536
00:33:09,445 –> 00:33:12,645
You sound very excited about it. It did. I’m grinding out a 4th one. It’s

537
00:33:12,645 –> 00:33:15,544
turned into a whole slot thing.

538
00:33:16,485 –> 00:33:19,044
And This is not what you wanted to talk about today. Not what I wanted

539
00:33:19,044 –> 00:33:21,940
to talk about. Digging into it. You’re welcome. It’s fine. We’re digging in. We’re digging

540
00:33:21,940 –> 00:33:24,340
in. We’re going in. We’re going in the mine. We’re gonna get some gold out

541
00:33:24,340 –> 00:33:27,940
of here. But I

542
00:33:27,940 –> 00:33:30,440
write on purpose difficult books.

543
00:33:31,780 –> 00:33:35,380
That’s what I’m doing here. I’m choosing to make it difficult. Right. Because I’m a

544
00:33:35,380 –> 00:33:38,915
complicated guy and I’m in an era

545
00:33:38,915 –> 00:33:42,275
where I am fighting uphill. And I’ve said this before on the podcast. I think

546
00:33:42,275 –> 00:33:45,895
I’ve said it with you on interviews that we’ve done, conversations we’ve had.

547
00:33:47,875 –> 00:33:51,480
I’m fighting uphill against short attention spans. You know, the

548
00:33:51,480 –> 00:33:55,020
62nd, 32nd, hummingbird, TikTok generation

549
00:33:55,400 –> 00:33:59,240
mindset, whatever. Mhmm. I’m also fighting

550
00:33:59,240 –> 00:34:03,000
uphill against a flood of quote, unquote content. And by the way, I agree with

551
00:34:03,000 –> 00:34:06,685
Martin Scorsese. Movies are not content. Movies are movies. Books are

552
00:34:06,685 –> 00:34:10,525
not content. Books are books. Like but but again, everything’s been dumped to that

553
00:34:10,525 –> 00:34:14,205
content bucket and swirled around. That way we can bring it to its lowest

554
00:34:14,205 –> 00:34:17,750
common denominator. So I’m fighting against this. The opposite. And the opposite is you.

555
00:34:17,750 –> 00:34:21,590
To me, and sorry to like but I don’t think that this is an

556
00:34:21,750 –> 00:34:25,349
I like I had to stop thinking about books as books and

557
00:34:25,349 –> 00:34:28,730
movies as movies and songs as songs. Right? And really just like

558
00:34:29,685 –> 00:34:33,445
shove them all together and understand that it’s

559
00:34:33,445 –> 00:34:36,645
about the story was the thing that I that I ended up kinda going with.

560
00:34:36,645 –> 00:34:40,325
Right? A great song has got a story inside of it. Right? Well, and where

561
00:34:40,325 –> 00:34:43,590
I come from is the medium can be part of the message. So

562
00:34:43,750 –> 00:34:47,350
Oh, 100%. Right? When I look at when I look at when I look at

563
00:34:47,350 –> 00:34:51,030
for Fahrenheit 4 51, and then I look at the the movie that, like,

564
00:34:51,030 –> 00:34:54,390
Michael b Jordan was in a couple years ago on HBO Max. I did not

565
00:34:54,390 –> 00:34:58,125
watch that. I thought about it, and then I was like, like, maybe after

566
00:34:58,125 –> 00:35:01,245
the interview, because I don’t wanna you know, I’m I’m just so used to the

567
00:35:01,245 –> 00:35:05,005
movie being a letdown. But it’s content, John. It’s fine.

568
00:35:05,005 –> 00:35:08,445
It’s it’s just content. Hey. Right? And you’re while you are

569
00:35:08,445 –> 00:35:11,825
correct, the greatness that makes this so good,

570
00:35:12,420 –> 00:35:16,099
I think, comes from the format that it was in originally. And I think that

571
00:35:16,099 –> 00:35:19,940
this is where people, like, screw up. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, the book did good,

572
00:35:19,940 –> 00:35:23,220
but if we wanna reach more people, let’s turn it into a movie. Like, I

573
00:35:23,220 –> 00:35:26,099
get this I get this stuff from people all the time. Well, John, your stuff

574
00:35:26,099 –> 00:35:28,885
is too deep. You need to make it easier for people to consume it. And

575
00:35:28,885 –> 00:35:32,565
I’m like, God, if we just chase that far enough, it’s going to be

576
00:35:32,565 –> 00:35:36,265
single word dogma. Like, that’s going to work out great for us. Right?

577
00:35:36,405 –> 00:35:39,940
Just sell. One one word haikus. Exactly.

578
00:35:39,940 –> 00:35:43,620
Right. You know? Like, in like, if anything, that’s what I’m trying to push back

579
00:35:43,620 –> 00:35:47,220
from of of stupid, outdated, dogmatic beliefs around

580
00:35:47,220 –> 00:35:50,580
sales that no longer serves us and probably never served us at at

581
00:35:50,580 –> 00:35:54,355
all. But in order to do that effectively, I don’t

582
00:35:54,355 –> 00:35:57,715
think you can water down ideas. And that’s really what I put fundamentally at the

583
00:35:57,715 –> 00:36:00,515
end of the day. That’s what I push up, I push up against. I don’t

584
00:36:00,515 –> 00:36:03,795
want to, if I’m in a world where the long tail is the thing, and

585
00:36:03,795 –> 00:36:05,875
I am in a world where the long tail is a thing now, the long

586
00:36:05,875 –> 00:36:09,260
tail wasn’t a thing in the mid-twentieth century. Like, it was mass and okay,

587
00:36:09,260 –> 00:36:13,100
fine. You had to appeal to the largest number of people and the greatest common

588
00:36:13,100 –> 00:36:16,780
denominator. Cool. Now I don’t have to. I need to sell 2 books a

589
00:36:16,780 –> 00:36:20,380
month to 2 people that want to hear my voice and everybody else, not to

590
00:36:20,380 –> 00:36:23,175
a too fine a point on it, but can go to hell. Like if the

591
00:36:23,175 –> 00:36:26,935
idea is too complicated for you, or if the argument’s too long, or

592
00:36:26,935 –> 00:36:30,775
the sentences are too rambling, or the paragraphs don’t link together in the way that

593
00:36:30,775 –> 00:36:34,615
you want, or you, you can’t hear my voice in your

594
00:36:34,615 –> 00:36:37,035
head. And so you’re reading the words on the page. You don’t.

595
00:36:39,790 –> 00:36:43,309
I’m not for you and that’s okay. Go away. I’ll go find the 2 people

596
00:36:43,309 –> 00:36:46,670
that are for me and I’ll sell 2 books a month and I’ll make 4

597
00:36:46,670 –> 00:36:50,349
bucks in royalties and I’ll move on with the rest of my life. Now,

598
00:36:50,349 –> 00:36:53,545
most people will push back on that and they’ll go, well, you know, you spent

599
00:36:53,685 –> 00:36:56,745
$5,000 to make $4. Yeah. So

600
00:36:58,645 –> 00:37:01,845
Well, I think that that comes down to what to what the intention behind the

601
00:37:01,845 –> 00:37:05,385
book is. Right? Correct. Right. It was so funny because whenever

602
00:37:05,525 –> 00:37:08,600
we decided that we were gonna launch the book, Melissa was already working on my

603
00:37:08,600 –> 00:37:12,360
team with me. And, she was like, okay. Can I

604
00:37:12,360 –> 00:37:15,080
tell you the the concern? And and I’m like, yeah. What’s up? And she’s like,

605
00:37:15,080 –> 00:37:18,760
I have seen these people. Right? They they wrote a business book. It was

606
00:37:18,760 –> 00:37:22,520
gonna be the game changer. And then they show up to half price books

607
00:37:22,520 –> 00:37:26,355
with, like, 7 boxes of the same book because

608
00:37:26,494 –> 00:37:29,954
it didn’t work. And I was like, okay. You know, interesting.

609
00:37:31,055 –> 00:37:34,115
And I had a very John moment. Why are you telling me that?

610
00:37:34,895 –> 00:37:38,690
She goes she goes, well, I’m concerned that, you know, you

611
00:37:38,690 –> 00:37:40,869
might do something similar. Okay.

612
00:37:42,930 –> 00:37:46,530
Heard. Like, okay. You know? This is why our wives exist to provide

613
00:37:46,530 –> 00:37:50,369
goal posts and and 100 times along the way. But

614
00:37:50,369 –> 00:37:53,965
I was like, okay. I appreciate you bringing this

615
00:37:53,965 –> 00:37:57,725
up. Let’s acknowledge that I am who I am, and that I’ve already

616
00:37:57,725 –> 00:38:01,085
told myself that this book changes absolutely nothing the next

617
00:38:01,085 –> 00:38:04,465
day and that I still have to work to put it out.

618
00:38:05,085 –> 00:38:08,090
Like my job is to put the book in the hands of the people who

619
00:38:08,090 –> 00:38:11,930
need it through through my actions and activities. I’m not expecting for anyone

620
00:38:11,930 –> 00:38:15,630
to find it because that’s absurd entitled thinking,

621
00:38:16,250 –> 00:38:19,950
in my in my opinion. Right? There’s just too many marketplaces. There’s too much messaging

622
00:38:20,010 –> 00:38:23,755
going on to really think you’re gonna, like, stand out unless you already have an

623
00:38:23,755 –> 00:38:26,555
audience, and I and I don’t. And so, like, the whole time I was writing

624
00:38:26,555 –> 00:38:29,675
and and getting it published and doing the whole thing, it was like, you still

625
00:38:29,675 –> 00:38:33,435
gotta sell, buddy. You still gotta sell. This changes nothing. If anything, it might

626
00:38:33,435 –> 00:38:36,980
make your lift a little bit easier, and that’s why I approached it. And that’s

627
00:38:36,980 –> 00:38:40,740
that’s where it it was super helpful. But I had a coach whispering all

628
00:38:40,740 –> 00:38:43,720
that stuff in my ear to kind of keep me grounded with my own expectations.

629
00:38:44,500 –> 00:38:47,460
And I think that some people just don’t have appropriate expectations when it comes to,

630
00:38:47,460 –> 00:38:51,235
like, writing a book or putting it out or different things like that. We’re lucky

631
00:38:51,375 –> 00:38:54,975
the fact that the book feeds our business, so I don’t need to make

632
00:38:54,975 –> 00:38:58,355
money on the book. The fact that that we have books

633
00:38:58,815 –> 00:39:02,495
gets us into some of the conversations that we’re looking to be in. Right. Right.

634
00:39:02,495 –> 00:39:06,240
And for me, the book so the reason the

635
00:39:06,240 –> 00:39:09,380
4th book right now is a slog is because it’s in a totally different genre

636
00:39:09,600 –> 00:39:12,640
and I’m doing a totally different thing than I normally would have done. And it’s

637
00:39:12,640 –> 00:39:16,320
requiring a little bit more transparency on my part, than

638
00:39:16,320 –> 00:39:19,620
I maybe previously have been comfortable with.

639
00:39:35,460 –> 00:39:39,300
To drive the content. I

640
00:39:39,300 –> 00:39:43,060
guess I’d say the word. To drive the content in. I don’t wanna call

641
00:39:43,060 –> 00:39:46,200
it that. I don’t wanna call it that. No. Because you know what?

642
00:39:49,145 –> 00:39:52,984
At a certain point, and and and I and I and this

643
00:39:52,984 –> 00:39:55,965
is where Scorsese and I might disagree.

644
00:39:58,425 –> 00:40:01,940
We have to figure out where

645
00:40:01,940 –> 00:40:05,400
quality exists in books and songs

646
00:40:05,700 –> 00:40:09,380
and movies. And what is the difference between Dreck

647
00:40:09,380 –> 00:40:12,579
that’s garbage? And by the way, during the mid 20th century, there were a lot

648
00:40:12,579 –> 00:40:16,395
of science fiction writers who published in a lot of science fiction

649
00:40:16,395 –> 00:40:19,995
note, what do you call it? Journals that were all over the place, that

650
00:40:19,995 –> 00:40:23,755
were absolute direct. We’ve never heard of those guys. Yep. And it’s only the big

651
00:40:23,755 –> 00:40:27,195
four, Heinlein, Asimov, Bradbury, and and

652
00:40:27,195 –> 00:40:30,610
Dick. Those 4 are the ones that are on the Mount Rushmore science

653
00:40:30,610 –> 00:40:34,150
fiction and everybody else washed away. Would agree.

654
00:40:35,250 –> 00:40:38,790
Now did everybody else wash away because there were, because

655
00:40:40,175 –> 00:40:43,935
there was a mass of people that selected and curated. And I’m not talking

656
00:40:43,935 –> 00:40:47,695
about publishers and agents. That’s part of the process, but I’m talking about, there was

657
00:40:47,695 –> 00:40:50,675
a mass of people that selected that this was good

658
00:40:52,380 –> 00:40:56,059
versus now where everyone can say everything is good because it’s

659
00:40:56,059 –> 00:40:59,819
subjective. And there’s a long enough tale to where if my mom buys a

660
00:40:59,819 –> 00:41:02,160
book, I can say it’s, it’s good. Right.

661
00:41:06,275 –> 00:41:09,975
And is that, and that’s the word we’re actually having is a war of quality.

662
00:41:10,035 –> 00:41:13,095
We’re not having a war of art. We’re having a war of quality

663
00:41:13,795 –> 00:41:17,635
and it’s really tough to have a war of quality, particularly in

664
00:41:17,635 –> 00:41:21,440
a world that is well kind of inside of the kind of

665
00:41:21,440 –> 00:41:24,960
world that Bray Bradbury was decided, was describing in Fahrenheit 4

666
00:41:24,960 –> 00:41:28,020
51, which we should get back to the book. Yeah, for sure.

667
00:41:30,079 –> 00:41:33,220
So we’re gonna skip forward a bunch of different

668
00:41:33,735 –> 00:41:37,415
spots and, Yeah, you’re

669
00:41:37,415 –> 00:41:40,055
gonna, you’re gonna like this book. You’re gonna wanna pick it up.

670
00:41:41,575 –> 00:41:45,255
And we’re going to go to, well, Montag gets

671
00:41:45,255 –> 00:41:48,010
sick and, he,

672
00:41:51,609 –> 00:41:55,450
he has a conversation with the the second main character, the villain, I

673
00:41:55,450 –> 00:41:58,270
guess, such as it were in this book, captain Beatty

674
00:41:59,049 –> 00:42:02,895
and captain Beatty lays out basically

675
00:42:04,075 –> 00:42:07,915
the entire game here in the chapter, the hearth

676
00:42:07,915 –> 00:42:11,675
and the salamander back to Fahrenheit 4 51 by

677
00:42:11,675 –> 00:42:12,415
Ray Bradbury.

678
00:42:15,320 –> 00:42:18,520
Montag made sure the book was well hidden behind the pillow, climbed slowly back into

679
00:42:18,520 –> 00:42:22,300
bed, arranged the covers over his knees and across his chest half sitting.

680
00:42:22,520 –> 00:42:25,480
And after a while, Mildred moved and went out of the room and captain Beatty

681
00:42:25,480 –> 00:42:29,105
strolled in his hands and his pockets, Shut the relatives up, said Beatty,

682
00:42:29,105 –> 00:42:32,785
looking around everything except Montauk and his wife. This

683
00:42:32,785 –> 00:42:36,165
time Mildred ran the yammering voices, stopped yelling in the parlor.

684
00:42:37,105 –> 00:42:40,065
Captain Beatty sat down in the most comfortable chair with a peaceful look on his

685
00:42:40,065 –> 00:42:43,457
ruddy face. He took time to repair and light his brass pipe and puff out

686
00:42:43,457 –> 00:42:47,079
a great smoke cloud. Just thought I’d come by and see how the

687
00:42:47,079 –> 00:42:50,701
sick man is. How’d you guess? Baby smiled his smile, which showed the

688
00:42:50,701 –> 00:42:54,323
candy pinkness of his gums and the tiny candy whiteness of his teeth.

689
00:42:54,323 –> 00:42:57,945
I’ve seen it all. You were going to call for a night off.

690
00:42:58,345 –> 00:43:02,185
Montauk sat in bed. Well, said, baby, take the night off. He

691
00:43:02,185 –> 00:43:06,025
examined his eternal matchbox, the lid of which said guaranteed 1,000,000 lates

692
00:43:06,025 –> 00:43:09,785
in this igniter and began to strike the chemical match abstractedly, blowout,

693
00:43:09,785 –> 00:43:13,470
strike, blowout, strike, speak a few words, blowout. He looked at the flame. He blew,

694
00:43:13,470 –> 00:43:17,230
he looked at the smoke. When will you be well tomorrow?

695
00:43:17,230 –> 00:43:20,670
The next day, maybe 1st of the week, baby puffed his

696
00:43:20,670 –> 00:43:24,270
pipe. Every fireman sooner or

697
00:43:24,270 –> 00:43:28,035
later hits this. They only need understanding

698
00:43:28,175 –> 00:43:31,695
to know how the wheels run. He’s know the history of our

699
00:43:31,695 –> 00:43:35,135
profession. They don’t feed it to the rookies. Like they used

700
00:43:35,135 –> 00:43:38,975
to damn shame only fire chiefs. Remember it

701
00:43:38,975 –> 00:43:42,480
now. I’ll let you win on

702
00:43:42,820 –> 00:43:46,660
it. Mildred fidgeted, but he took a full minute

703
00:43:46,660 –> 00:43:50,420
to settle himself in and think back for what he wanted to say. When

704
00:43:50,420 –> 00:43:53,300
did it all start? You asked this job of ours. How did it all come

705
00:43:53,300 –> 00:43:56,924
about? Where and when I’d say it really got started around about a thing

706
00:43:56,924 –> 00:44:00,684
called the civil war. Even though our rule book claims was

707
00:44:00,684 –> 00:44:04,444
founded earlier. The fact is we didn’t get along well until photography came

708
00:44:04,444 –> 00:44:07,904
into its own. Then motion pictures in the early 20th century, radio, television,

709
00:44:08,125 –> 00:44:11,940
things begin to have mass Montauk sat

710
00:44:11,940 –> 00:44:15,780
in the bed, not moving. And because they had mass, they became simpler

711
00:44:15,780 –> 00:44:19,300
said Beatty. Once books appeal to a few people here, there, everywhere, they could afford

712
00:44:19,300 –> 00:44:23,060
to be different. The room world was roomy, but then the world

713
00:44:23,060 –> 00:44:26,585
got full of eyes and elbows and elbows and mouths, double, triple, quadruple population

714
00:44:26,725 –> 00:44:30,325
films, radios, magazines, books leveled down to a sort of paste pudding

715
00:44:30,325 –> 00:44:33,705
norm. Do you follow me? I think so.

716
00:44:34,405 –> 00:44:37,620
Beatty peered at the smoke pattern he had put on in the air. Picture it.

717
00:44:37,780 –> 00:44:41,620
19th century man and his horses, dogs, carts, slow motion. Then in the 20th

718
00:44:41,620 –> 00:44:45,380
century, speed up your camera. Books cut shorter. Condizations, digest, tabloids,

719
00:44:45,380 –> 00:44:48,760
everything boils down to the gag, the snap ending. Snap ending?

720
00:44:48,980 –> 00:44:52,744
Mildred nodded. Classics cut to fit 15 minute

721
00:44:52,744 –> 00:44:55,385
radio shows and cut again to fill a 2 minute book column winding up at

722
00:44:55,385 –> 00:44:59,145
last as a 10 or 12 line dictionary resume. I exaggerate, of

723
00:44:59,145 –> 00:45:02,984
course. The dictionaries were for reference, but many were those who

724
00:45:02,984 –> 00:45:06,830
sold knowledge of Hamlet. You know, the title, certainly Montag, it is probably

725
00:45:06,830 –> 00:45:10,670
only a fake rumor of a title to you, Mrs. Montag, whose sole knowledge, as

726
00:45:10,670 –> 00:45:14,350
I say of Hamlet was a 1 page digest in a book that claimed now,

727
00:45:14,350 –> 00:45:17,650
alas, you can read all the classics. Keep up with your neighbors. Do you see

728
00:45:18,975 –> 00:45:22,495
out of the nursery, into the college and back to the nursery? There’s your

729
00:45:22,495 –> 00:45:25,395
intellectual pattern for the past 5 centuries or more

730
00:45:26,495 –> 00:45:29,215
Mildura rose and get to move around the room, picking up things and putting them

731
00:45:29,215 –> 00:45:33,059
down. Beatty ignored her and continued speed the film up, Montag. Quick, click,

732
00:45:33,059 –> 00:45:36,740
click, look, I flick now here, there, swift pace up, down, in, out. Why,

733
00:45:36,740 –> 00:45:40,440
how, who, what, where, bang smack, walloping, bang bong, boom.

734
00:45:40,579 –> 00:45:44,339
Digest, digest, digest, digest politics. 1 column, 2 sentences, a headline, then in

735
00:45:44,339 –> 00:45:48,075
mid air all vanishes. World man’s mind around so fast and into the pumping

736
00:45:48,075 –> 00:45:51,755
hands of publishers, exploiters, broadcasters at the centrifuge flings off all

737
00:45:51,755 –> 00:45:53,695
unnecessary time wasting thought.

738
00:45:55,515 –> 00:45:58,635
Mildred smooth the bed closed. Montag felt his heart jump and jump again as she

739
00:45:58,635 –> 00:46:01,540
patted his pillow. Right now, she was pulling at his shoulder, trying to get him

740
00:46:01,540 –> 00:46:03,700
to move so she could take the pillow out and fix it nicely and put

741
00:46:03,700 –> 00:46:06,900
it back and perhaps cry out and stare or simply reach down her hand and

742
00:46:06,900 –> 00:46:10,260
say, what’s this? And hold up the hidden book with touching

743
00:46:10,260 –> 00:46:13,665
innocence. School is short and disciplined

744
00:46:13,665 –> 00:46:17,105
relaxed. Philosophies, histories, languages dropped. English and spelling gradually,

745
00:46:17,105 –> 00:46:20,865
gradually neglected. Finally, almost completely ignored. Life is immediate.

746
00:46:20,865 –> 00:46:24,085
The job counts. Pleasure lies and all lies

747
00:46:24,545 –> 00:46:28,010
all about after work. Why learn anything safe pressing buttons, pulling

748
00:46:28,010 –> 00:46:31,530
switches, fixing nuts and bolts? Let me fix your pillows, said Mildred. No, whispered

749
00:46:31,530 –> 00:46:35,370
Montauk. The zipper displaces the button, and man lacks just that much

750
00:46:35,370 –> 00:46:38,990
time to think while dressing at dawn, a philosophical hour and thus a melancholy

751
00:46:39,290 –> 00:46:42,925
hour. Mildred said here. Get away, said Montag.

752
00:46:43,065 –> 00:46:46,745
Life’s become life becomes one big pratfall. Montag, everything. Bang,

753
00:46:46,745 –> 00:46:50,585
boff, and wow. God’s sakes, let me

754
00:46:50,585 –> 00:46:54,425
be, cried Montag passionately. Beatty opened his

755
00:46:54,425 –> 00:46:57,940
eyes wide. Mildred’s hands had frozen behind the pillow.

756
00:46:58,079 –> 00:47:01,520
Her fingers were tracing the book’s outline, and as the shape became familiar, her face

757
00:47:01,520 –> 00:47:05,359
looked surprised. And then stunned, her mouth opened to ask a

758
00:47:05,359 –> 00:47:08,960
question. Empty the theater, safe for clowns and

759
00:47:08,960 –> 00:47:12,055
furnished the rooms, with glass walls and pretty colors running up and down the walls

760
00:47:12,055 –> 00:47:15,195
like confetti or blood or sherry or sartereen.

761
00:47:15,815 –> 00:47:19,655
You like baseball, don’t you, Montag? Baseball is a fine game. Now

762
00:47:19,655 –> 00:47:23,175
Betty was almost invisible, a voice somewhere behind a screen of smoke. What’s this? That’s

763
00:47:23,175 –> 00:47:26,780
Mildred with almost with delight. Montauk heaved back against her

764
00:47:26,780 –> 00:47:30,620
arms. What’s this here? Sit down, Montauk shouted. She jumped

765
00:47:30,620 –> 00:47:34,300
away, her hands empty. We’re talking. Beatty went on as if

766
00:47:34,300 –> 00:47:37,964
nothing had happened. You like bowling, don’t you, Montauk? Bowling, gas, and

767
00:47:37,964 –> 00:47:41,744
golf? Golf’s a fine game. Base basketball? A fine game. Billiards pool, football?

768
00:47:41,964 –> 00:47:45,805
Fine games, all of them. More sports for everyone. Group spirit fun, and you don’t

769
00:47:45,805 –> 00:47:49,404
have to think. Organize and organize and super organize, super, super

770
00:47:49,404 –> 00:47:53,020
sports. More cartoons in books, more pictures. The mind drinks less and less

771
00:47:53,020 –> 00:47:56,560
impatience. Highways full of crowds going somewhere, somewhere, somewhere, nowhere.

772
00:47:56,780 –> 00:48:00,460
The gasoline refugee. Towns turned into motels. People in nomadic

773
00:48:00,460 –> 00:48:03,740
surges from place to place following the moon tide. Living tonight in the room where

774
00:48:03,740 –> 00:48:07,395
you slept this noon and I the night before. Mildred went out of the room

775
00:48:07,395 –> 00:48:10,775
and slammed the door. The parlor aunts began to laugh at the parlor uncles.

776
00:48:12,115 –> 00:48:15,735
Now let’s take up the minorities in our civilization, shall we?

777
00:48:15,795 –> 00:48:19,360
Bigger the population, the more minorities. Don’t step on the toes of the dog lovers,

778
00:48:19,360 –> 00:48:23,140
the cat lovers, doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs, Mormons, Baptists, Unitarians,

779
00:48:23,760 –> 00:48:26,420
2nd generation Chinese, Swedes, Baptists,

780
00:48:28,000 –> 00:48:31,680
Italians, Germans, Texans, Brooklynites, Irishmen, people from Oregon or

781
00:48:31,680 –> 00:48:35,185
Mexico. The people in this book, this play, this TV

782
00:48:35,185 –> 00:48:39,025
serial are not meant to represent any actual painters, cartographers, mechanics anywhere.

783
00:48:39,025 –> 00:48:42,565
The bigger your market, Montag, the less you handle controversy. Remember that?

784
00:48:42,945 –> 00:48:46,405
All the minor minor minorities with all their navels to be kept clean.

785
00:48:47,040 –> 00:48:50,580
Authors full of evil thoughts, lock up your typewriters. They did.

786
00:48:51,200 –> 00:48:54,800
Magazines became a nice blend of vanilla tapioca books, so the damned,

787
00:48:54,800 –> 00:48:58,640
stoppage critics said were dishwater. No wonder books stopped selling, the critics said.

788
00:48:58,640 –> 00:49:02,225
But the public, knowing what it wanted, spending happily let the

789
00:49:02,225 –> 00:49:06,005
comic books survive. And the three-dimensional sex magazines,

790
00:49:06,065 –> 00:49:09,745
of course. There you have it, Montag. It didn’t come from the government

791
00:49:09,745 –> 00:49:13,345
down. There was no dictum, no declaration, no censorship to start with.

792
00:49:13,345 –> 00:49:17,040
No technology, mass exploitation, and minority pressure carried

793
00:49:17,040 –> 00:49:20,880
the trick. Thank God. Today, thanks to them, you can stay

794
00:49:20,880 –> 00:49:24,500
happy all the time. You are allowed to read comics, the good old confession,

795
00:49:25,040 –> 00:49:26,180
or trade journals.

796
00:49:28,555 –> 00:49:31,455
Yes. What about the firemen then? Asked Montag. Ah,

797
00:49:32,235 –> 00:49:35,835
Bailey leaned forward in famous to smoke from his pipe. What more easily

798
00:49:35,835 –> 00:49:39,355
explained than natural? With school turning out more runners, jumpers,

799
00:49:39,355 –> 00:49:42,990
racers, tinkerers, grabbers, snatchers, flyers, and swimmers instead of examiners, critics,

800
00:49:42,990 –> 00:49:46,590
knowers, and imaginative creators, the word intellectual, of course, became the swear

801
00:49:46,590 –> 00:49:50,350
word it deserved to be. You always dread

802
00:49:50,350 –> 00:49:53,710
the unfamiliar. Surely, you remember the boy in your own school class who was exceptionally,

803
00:49:53,710 –> 00:49:57,164
quote, unquote, bright, did most of the reciting and answering while the others sat like

804
00:49:57,164 –> 00:50:00,684
so many Latin idols hating him. And wasn’t it this bright boy you

805
00:50:00,684 –> 00:50:04,525
selected for beatings and tortures after hours? Of course, it was. We must all be

806
00:50:04,525 –> 00:50:07,885
alike. Not everyone born free and equal, as the constitution says, but

807
00:50:07,885 –> 00:50:11,700
everyone made equal. Each man

808
00:50:11,700 –> 00:50:15,060
the image of every other, then all are happy, for there are no mountains to

809
00:50:15,060 –> 00:50:18,900
make them cower to judge themselves against. So a

810
00:50:18,900 –> 00:50:22,100
book is a loaded gun in the house next door. Burn it. Take a shot

811
00:50:22,100 –> 00:50:25,060
from the weapon. Breach man’s minds. Who knows what might be the target of a

812
00:50:25,060 –> 00:50:28,855
well read man? Me? I won’t stomach them for a minute. And so when

813
00:50:28,855 –> 00:50:32,375
houses were finally fireproofed completely all over the world, you were

814
00:50:32,375 –> 00:50:35,575
correcting your assumption the other night, there was no longer the need of firemen for

815
00:50:35,575 –> 00:50:39,415
the old purposes. They were given a new job as custodians of our

816
00:50:39,415 –> 00:50:43,109
peace of mind, the focus of our understandable and rightful dread of

817
00:50:43,109 –> 00:50:46,490
being inferior, official censors, judges, and executors.

818
00:50:47,190 –> 00:50:50,170
That’s you Montag, and that’s me.

819
00:50:54,645 –> 00:50:58,025
That’s a long bit there that I read. I read it on purpose

820
00:50:59,605 –> 00:51:03,365
because you can’t really break up captain baby speech into the little

821
00:51:03,365 –> 00:51:07,200
tiny parts, particularly that bit, which hit

822
00:51:07,200 –> 00:51:10,420
me right in the gut about the minorities and censorship

823
00:51:10,560 –> 00:51:14,000
coming, not from the top down, the

824
00:51:14,000 –> 00:51:16,260
totalitarianism from the bottom up.

825
00:51:18,255 –> 00:51:21,555
Captain Beatty is the classic bureaucratic

826
00:51:21,694 –> 00:51:25,214
leader trapped in a system. He understands almost

827
00:51:25,214 –> 00:51:28,835
totally and completely because it works for him.

828
00:51:30,630 –> 00:51:34,470
Montag, of course, stands in as the person who has woken up to manipulation of

829
00:51:34,470 –> 00:51:37,510
the matrix, but he doesn’t know what to do about it quite just yet at

830
00:51:37,510 –> 00:51:40,950
this point in the book. He doesn’t have a plan. He’s just still in

831
00:51:40,950 –> 00:51:44,795
shock. Captain Beatty and guys like captain

832
00:51:44,795 –> 00:51:48,155
Beatty, and this is a warning for our time, they don’t mind if you’ve been

833
00:51:48,155 –> 00:51:51,835
awakened or awoken or whatever the term is you would

834
00:51:51,835 –> 00:51:55,434
like. He just doesn’t want you to take any action to disrupt the

835
00:51:55,434 –> 00:51:59,140
system. Newspapers, music, radio, television,

836
00:51:59,140 –> 00:52:02,580
cable news, and now, and Bradbury died in

837
00:52:02,580 –> 00:52:06,340
2012, right on the cusp of this all hitting now,

838
00:52:06,340 –> 00:52:10,035
social media and the internet are blamed for the tendency of

839
00:52:10,035 –> 00:52:13,155
people to give up control of their minds to those who appear to be in

840
00:52:13,155 –> 00:52:16,935
control of events. By the way,

841
00:52:16,994 –> 00:52:20,695
the unnamed country in Fahrenheit 4 51 is in a state of perpetual

842
00:52:20,835 –> 00:52:24,215
war, just as a side note, with every other country,

843
00:52:24,650 –> 00:52:28,350
just as Oceania was in 1984 by George Orwell,

844
00:52:29,050 –> 00:52:32,750
which we’ll read in Q3 of next year.

845
00:52:33,930 –> 00:52:37,770
If we’re all still around to read it in Q3 of

846
00:52:37,770 –> 00:52:41,515
next year, by the way, when I read this

847
00:52:41,515 –> 00:52:45,195
book and I read about the firefighters, I thought of the

848
00:52:45,195 –> 00:52:48,955
band Rage Against the Machine, and the great line that they

849
00:52:48,955 –> 00:52:51,055
have in that song,

850
00:52:52,715 –> 00:52:56,430
Bulls on Parade, They don’t got to burn the books. They

851
00:52:56,430 –> 00:52:58,050
just remove them.

852
00:53:03,470 –> 00:53:07,230
John, there are many different flavors and types in our world today of getting

853
00:53:07,230 –> 00:53:10,245
red pill to quote unquote or waking up or becoming woke.

854
00:53:11,365 –> 00:53:14,805
And yet I sense

855
00:53:14,805 –> 00:53:18,565
behind all of them. A lot of captain Beatty, but

856
00:53:18,565 –> 00:53:20,585
maybe that’s just my conspiratorial thinking.

857
00:53:23,600 –> 00:53:26,420
How can we be more like Montag and less like captain Beatty?

858
00:53:32,480 –> 00:53:35,840
So this is unique perspective on captain Beatty because

859
00:53:38,535 –> 00:53:41,415
and I and I think we’re gonna talk about this part a little later. There’s

860
00:53:41,415 –> 00:53:45,115
a there’s an add on from another character that, like,

861
00:53:45,974 –> 00:53:49,115
blew my mind about Beatty. Right? Now,

862
00:53:49,895 –> 00:53:52,440
I don’t know if I talked about this on the show, but I’m prior service.

863
00:53:52,440 –> 00:53:55,660
I joined the military in, May of 2001.

864
00:53:57,240 –> 00:54:01,000
And, obviously, in September of 2001, you know, we

865
00:54:01,160 –> 00:54:04,859
it was no longer just a theoretical exercise. Right. And

866
00:54:07,565 –> 00:54:09,664
there’s so much of this

867
00:54:10,924 –> 00:54:14,224
awakening that he goes through. Right? And part of me,

868
00:54:15,005 –> 00:54:17,805
as I’m reading this, oh my god. The pacing of this is just so fast.

869
00:54:17,805 –> 00:54:21,160
It doesn’t happen this quick. It takes longer to wake up. It takes longer to

870
00:54:21,160 –> 00:54:24,380
kinda fall out of the fold. It takes longer. But, man,

871
00:54:24,920 –> 00:54:28,460
when I think about, you know, September 11th,

872
00:54:29,800 –> 00:54:33,444
and this is no longer an exercise This is not a

873
00:54:33,444 –> 00:54:36,025
drill. It’s not a drill. You know?

874
00:54:39,045 –> 00:54:42,724
Instantly pushed me to the place of, like, I don’t know that this is the

875
00:54:42,724 –> 00:54:46,440
place I need to be. Mhmm. Right? Because, like, I was feeling

876
00:54:46,440 –> 00:54:50,060
that before, but then we were having this conversation.

877
00:54:50,360 –> 00:54:53,960
Right? And military is filled with stuff like this. Right? You

878
00:54:53,960 –> 00:54:57,640
know, boot camp is an indoctrination process. Right? It’s meant to break you down to

879
00:54:57,640 –> 00:55:00,935
nothing and then designed to be that way. Person it needs to be. You know?

880
00:55:00,935 –> 00:55:04,075
Yeah. And it’s it’s for the reasons that it’s for. Right?

881
00:55:07,655 –> 00:55:11,095
But, like, as I’m going through this and I’m and and I’m like, no. No.

882
00:55:11,095 –> 00:55:14,410
No. It’s not that quick. It’s it can be that quick. And if you go

883
00:55:14,410 –> 00:55:18,010
through the right experiences, have the right mentors around you, have the right environment for

884
00:55:18,010 –> 00:55:21,230
it to show up, it can be a a blazingly quick process. Mhmm.

885
00:55:23,370 –> 00:55:26,410
But, like, I just keep going back to that. You know, when the student is

886
00:55:26,410 –> 00:55:30,085
ready, the teacher will appear. You know? And we

887
00:55:30,085 –> 00:55:33,285
were sitting we were sitting in a room called the day room. Right? Anyone who’s

888
00:55:33,285 –> 00:55:35,845
been in the army understands what the day room is. It’s like a it’s like

889
00:55:35,845 –> 00:55:39,525
a communal room in there, and there’s a TV in there. Right? Mhmm. And so

890
00:55:39,525 –> 00:55:43,010
we’re in there, and I’m this kid from Texas, 20

891
00:55:43,250 –> 00:55:46,530
I I my birthday is actually on 9:11, so I turned 21 the day that

892
00:55:46,530 –> 00:55:49,890
that happened. I have a great story about telling a drill sergeant that I was

893
00:55:49,890 –> 00:55:53,250
gonna get to go off post that weekend, and he told me, no. You’re

894
00:55:53,250 –> 00:55:57,068
not. And I I worry. You’re not. We’re in the day room,

895
00:55:57,068 –> 00:56:00,865
and I’m having this very disconnected experience of, like, what have I

896
00:56:00,865 –> 00:56:04,225
signed up for? What am I really going through? And I’m in

897
00:56:04,225 –> 00:56:08,060
Georgia at the time. Right? And I’m there with guys from Philly

898
00:56:08,060 –> 00:56:11,660
and New York and DC and people who are who are having a

899
00:56:11,660 –> 00:56:15,420
profoundly different experience than what I’m going through as a as a kid from

900
00:56:15,420 –> 00:56:18,860
Texas. And, man, there were

901
00:56:19,500 –> 00:56:23,155
I think there’s about 30 people in my in my cohort from my

902
00:56:23,155 –> 00:56:26,275
class. Right? And we had the night class, and so we’re talking about it either

903
00:56:26,275 –> 00:56:29,635
that day or the next day. And everyone else is like, man, we just gotta

904
00:56:29,635 –> 00:56:33,410
go turn it into a parking lot. Just go nuke it, turn it into

905
00:56:33,410 –> 00:56:37,109
a parking lot. We don’t have to deal with this anymore. And I’m like,

906
00:56:37,569 –> 00:56:41,329
don’t that make us the same? Don’t that make us, like, not

907
00:56:41,329 –> 00:56:44,869
any better than than the people that did this? Mhmm.

908
00:56:44,930 –> 00:56:48,715
And the heat that, like, that

909
00:56:48,715 –> 00:56:51,455
kind of commentary was getting in that space. You know?

910
00:56:53,994 –> 00:56:57,755
Mhmm. So, like, reading this now as as a 44 year old guy

911
00:56:57,755 –> 00:57:01,430
who’s gone through that experience, has had to deload himself, right, had therapy

912
00:57:01,730 –> 00:57:05,490
and, you know, working through it and everything, it can happen

913
00:57:05,490 –> 00:57:08,630
that quick. Mhmm. You know? But

914
00:57:09,250 –> 00:57:13,065
you also just have to be aware of, for lack

915
00:57:13,065 –> 00:57:16,744
of better term, spend. Right? Because And that’s what captain Beatty

916
00:57:16,744 –> 00:57:20,505
delivers, by the way. That that that that’s what that’s exactly what Beatty delivers, by

917
00:57:20,505 –> 00:57:24,105
the way. And it’s so easy to get caught up in spin. Right? And

918
00:57:24,105 –> 00:57:27,645
he’s he’s on one level, like, demonizing spin.

919
00:57:27,910 –> 00:57:30,090
Mhmm. Right? We’re not gonna have short,

920
00:57:31,590 –> 00:57:35,430
multipurpose content, you know, that is just watered down to the lowest

921
00:57:35,430 –> 00:57:39,190
forms. That way, you can be there. But the answer is not to

922
00:57:39,190 –> 00:57:42,695
just take it all away, though. Right? You know, it’s very much, well, this was

923
00:57:42,695 –> 00:57:46,375
the problem, so this was our solution. And look how better we are. And, like,

924
00:57:46,375 –> 00:57:49,115
if you’re drinking the Kool Aid, I bet it tastes amazing

925
00:57:52,295 –> 00:57:56,109
in that moment. Right? Like, backing up

926
00:57:56,109 –> 00:57:59,950
in my military story, we first get to boot camp, and

927
00:57:59,950 –> 00:58:03,570
we have a captain who’s in charge of our of our, company.

928
00:58:04,430 –> 00:58:08,190
And the drill sergeants were being really mean, like, really mean, yelling

929
00:58:08,190 –> 00:58:10,855
at us, making us do lots of push ups, and making us, like, do all

930
00:58:10,855 –> 00:58:12,935
this crazy stuff. And in the back of my head, I was like, you know

931
00:58:12,935 –> 00:58:16,615
what? That captain, he wouldn’t let them do

932
00:58:16,615 –> 00:58:20,235
that to us if he knew what was really happening.

933
00:58:20,775 –> 00:58:24,215
Right? And then a couple of days after that, I, you know, see the

934
00:58:24,215 –> 00:58:28,019
captain being the person who’s reinforcing the drill sergeants.

935
00:58:28,019 –> 00:58:31,859
And I just, like, had this moment of, like, like, a shattered world

936
00:58:31,859 –> 00:58:35,539
view of, like, of, like, oh, he’s not gonna save us. And then, like,

937
00:58:35,539 –> 00:58:38,359
duh, idiot. I’m the only one not on this page.

938
00:58:39,965 –> 00:58:43,805
You know? And, I mean, we Well, it’s a it’s a hell of a thing

939
00:58:43,805 –> 00:58:46,145
to be robbed of your preconceived notions.

940
00:58:47,565 –> 00:58:50,685
Fair. Right? Or to be in a situation to where

941
00:58:51,810 –> 00:58:55,250
like, this feels very military esque. Right? Like, these are the deep

942
00:58:55,250 –> 00:58:58,870
brotherhood. They’re they’re they’re they they spend a lot of time together.

943
00:58:59,090 –> 00:59:01,970
He just shows up at his house because he knows he’s gonna call in sick

944
00:59:01,970 –> 00:59:05,110
after this environment. You know what I’m saying? Like, it’s it’s so

945
00:59:05,985 –> 00:59:09,685
very much military. And in those situations,

946
00:59:09,745 –> 00:59:13,505
when you’re talking with someone, they’re they’re essentially telling you this is

947
00:59:13,505 –> 00:59:17,205
how we think about it, and it’s meant to be

948
00:59:18,039 –> 00:59:21,880
push the other stuff away and continue with this way forward. You know? And

949
00:59:21,880 –> 00:59:25,559
so it’s weird to like, I’ve been in those in those conversations. I remember

950
00:59:25,559 –> 00:59:29,400
having a conversation with drill sergeants about hand grenades and why I

951
00:59:29,400 –> 00:59:33,015
shouldn’t be nervous about throwing them. Why would I

952
00:59:33,015 –> 00:59:36,694
not be nervous? You know? See, this is this is it’s

953
00:59:36,694 –> 00:59:40,474
interesting. So, you know, you you said your birthday is on September 11th.

954
00:59:40,775 –> 00:59:42,395
Mhmm. And,

955
00:59:45,130 –> 00:59:48,830
I turned 21, 13 days after September 11th.

956
00:59:50,890 –> 00:59:54,510
And, both of our lives I would assert,

957
00:59:54,570 –> 00:59:57,315
and this is one of the solutions I made on this podcast this year, which

958
00:59:57,315 –> 01:00:00,435
is why I’m sort of approaching it in a different kind of way, particularly towards

959
01:00:00,435 –> 01:00:04,135
the end of our, session today where I try

960
01:00:04,435 –> 01:00:07,234
to, or end of our episode today where I try every episode now to talk

961
01:00:07,234 –> 01:00:10,214
about what are solutions to problems. Because I’m just, I’m done

962
01:00:10,790 –> 01:00:14,550
pulling apart problems 99% of the time, because all we’ve done

963
01:00:14,550 –> 01:00:17,290
from my perspective for the last 20 years

964
01:00:19,030 –> 01:00:22,570
is since that, since that day in Midtown Manhattan,

965
01:00:24,150 –> 01:00:27,975
all we’ve done is, is chew over problems

966
01:00:29,955 –> 01:00:32,935
and I’m done with it personally, professionally,

967
01:00:33,315 –> 01:00:37,015
ecumenically, whatever you’re the way you can possibly

968
01:00:37,315 –> 01:00:41,000
think of that ends with why I’m done. I, we know what the problems are.

969
01:00:41,000 –> 01:00:44,760
Number 1, we know how deep the problems are. Number 2, we can

970
01:00:44,760 –> 01:00:48,600
identify what the cause of the problems is. Number 3, but no one has a

971
01:00:48,600 –> 01:00:52,440
courage to talk about solutions to the problem. Like here’s a big one.

972
01:00:52,440 –> 01:00:54,540
Like you talk about captain Beatty and spin.

973
01:00:56,175 –> 01:00:58,515
The solution to the captain babies of the world.

974
01:01:00,495 –> 01:01:04,035
And is the destruction of bureaucratic systems. That’s that

975
01:01:05,295 –> 01:01:08,975
that’s that’s that’s the solution, like, right. And everybody makes that sound right

976
01:01:08,975 –> 01:01:12,790
there. Everybody makes that sound right there because what you’re laughing at is not

977
01:01:12,790 –> 01:01:16,570
the solution I’m proposing. What you’re laughing at is the inevitable

978
01:01:16,790 –> 01:01:20,470
consequence that you can go forward with for when that that

979
01:01:20,470 –> 01:01:23,990
bureaucratic system is destroyed. And by the way, I’m not talking about destroying people’s

980
01:01:23,990 –> 01:01:27,665
lives, physical lives. What I’m talking about is taking you out of the system.

981
01:01:27,665 –> 01:01:31,425
So here’s very simple one. Let’s take the list of all the

982
01:01:31,425 –> 01:01:35,185
captain batings that are in the Pentagon. Let’s line them up

983
01:01:35,185 –> 01:01:38,625
alphabetically and let’s just fire every other one of them alphabetical order. And then we

984
01:01:38,625 –> 01:01:42,170
cut the Pentagon’s budget by 15%. And now we’re done. And don’t tell

985
01:01:42,170 –> 01:01:45,769
me that you can’t find people who wouldn’t be willing to do this. Rand, Paul,

986
01:01:45,769 –> 01:01:49,529
Ron, Paul, there’s plenty of people floating around who’d be willing to do this. Jim

987
01:01:49,529 –> 01:01:52,970
Jordan, you may not agree with them politically, but we’ll put that aside for just

988
01:01:52,970 –> 01:01:56,645
a second. There are plenty of people who would be willing to do this. That’s

989
01:01:56,645 –> 01:02:00,345
that is the solution, but we’d laugh because of the consequence

990
01:02:00,405 –> 01:02:04,165
on the other side of that is when you go in alphabetical order and

991
01:02:04,165 –> 01:02:06,724
you cut all those people out of the system, now you’ve got them running around

992
01:02:06,724 –> 01:02:08,905
in general population, making trouble on the internet.

993
01:02:11,170 –> 01:02:14,850
And with their past connections and past networks and past ability to raise money

994
01:02:14,850 –> 01:02:18,370
and. And we don’t want to actually face

995
01:02:18,370 –> 01:02:21,890
that consequence. We don’t want the person who

996
01:02:21,890 –> 01:02:25,190
spent the last 15 years in the Pentagon

997
01:02:25,570 –> 01:02:28,205
fighting endless wars, working at Safeway,

998
01:02:29,785 –> 01:02:33,545
bagging groceries, although quite frankly, they

999
01:02:33,545 –> 01:02:37,065
would probably do a much better job at Safeway. I would rather have them

1000
01:02:37,065 –> 01:02:40,770
wrecking Safeway then, you know, I don’t

1001
01:02:40,770 –> 01:02:43,030
know, selling more weapons to Ukraine

1002
01:02:45,090 –> 01:02:48,930
or coming up with more unique ways to, I don’t

1003
01:02:48,930 –> 01:02:52,650
know, drop more bombs on people that don’t need to have bombs dropped on because

1004
01:02:52,650 –> 01:02:56,234
I don’t have a personal problem with them. But we’re at

1005
01:02:56,234 –> 01:02:59,934
Safeway or go work at HEB or go work at the gas station.

1006
01:03:00,474 –> 01:03:04,234
Go, go wreck a gas station, go wreck Exxon Mobile’s job, go wreck

1007
01:03:04,234 –> 01:03:07,775
Exxon Mobile’s outfit over there. You’ll do less damage,

1008
01:03:08,315 –> 01:03:11,970
but we don’t actually want to do that because why do we wanna do

1009
01:03:11,970 –> 01:03:15,730
that? We don’t actually wanna do that because the the the consequence

1010
01:03:15,730 –> 01:03:19,490
of that now taken from the 5,000 bureaucrats 400

1011
01:03:19,490 –> 01:03:23,250
miles away, now real close enough to us, we don’t wanna deal with.

1012
01:03:23,250 –> 01:03:26,710
We don’t wanna deal with that guy that is a general manager at HEB

1013
01:03:27,345 –> 01:03:31,185
because we know that guy would be a nightmare. But that’s the

1014
01:03:31,185 –> 01:03:33,905
way we that’s the way we fundamentally fix the system. That’s one of the ways

1015
01:03:33,905 –> 01:03:37,345
we can fund it. And so I would like to have the proposal of

1016
01:03:37,345 –> 01:03:41,140
solutions. A guy like captain Beatty isn’t proposing solutions to your

1017
01:03:41,140 –> 01:03:44,820
point. He’s proposing just go they’re there. They’re

1018
01:03:44,820 –> 01:03:48,440
there. You’re Make it through. You’re not smart enough to understand

1019
01:03:48,500 –> 01:03:52,200
this than I am, so you’ll make it through if I just shepherd you through.

1020
01:03:52,420 –> 01:03:56,184
And that and that’s pay and, of course, that’s patronizing. And, you

1021
01:03:56,184 –> 01:03:59,944
know, Bradbury is writing this out of the perspective of the military industrial complex. There’s

1022
01:03:59,944 –> 01:04:03,724
opposition to the military industrial complex and his opposition to police power.

1023
01:04:04,184 –> 01:04:07,865
One of the interesting back stories behind this book is that one of the pieces

1024
01:04:07,865 –> 01:04:11,065
of the genesis that went into this book is that or into the story is

1025
01:04:11,065 –> 01:04:13,900
that he was pulled over by the cops or he was walking with the cops

1026
01:04:13,900 –> 01:04:16,940
because he never like actually learned how to drive. And he was like walking around

1027
01:04:16,940 –> 01:04:20,220
or whatever in the park and the cop was like hassling him about walking in

1028
01:04:20,220 –> 01:04:23,420
the park or something and gave him a ticket or whatever. Yeah. And he was

1029
01:04:23,420 –> 01:04:27,135
all rebellious, just like most creative types. He’s rebellious in his head, but then in

1030
01:04:27,135 –> 01:04:30,415
reality, he just took a ticket and just like went away. And he couldn’t figure

1031
01:04:30,415 –> 01:04:34,015
out how to make those two things, you know, sort of click together in his

1032
01:04:34,015 –> 01:04:37,455
reality. And so he came with his captain baby character to sort of work

1033
01:04:37,455 –> 01:04:41,135
through cathartically all these feelings of being oppressed by the

1034
01:04:41,135 –> 01:04:44,970
man, which is a very sixties sort of idea. Yeah. But

1035
01:04:44,970 –> 01:04:48,810
the problem is we live in 2024, and the people who used to protest

1036
01:04:48,810 –> 01:04:52,250
against the man and now are the man, and they’ve been the man for a

1037
01:04:52,250 –> 01:04:55,975
while. Yeah. You

1038
01:04:55,975 –> 01:04:59,355
brought up Rage Against the Machine a few a few moments ago, and,

1039
01:05:00,135 –> 01:05:03,815
I remember when that album came out. Right? Like like, I’m sure you do as

1040
01:05:03,815 –> 01:05:07,500
well. I think I was probably in 7 and, again, Laura Frohnick, same person

1041
01:05:07,500 –> 01:05:11,260
who recommended this book to me, was the person who came back. She’d taken a

1042
01:05:11,260 –> 01:05:14,220
trip to Italy and came back and was like, man, have you heard Bulls on

1043
01:05:14,220 –> 01:05:17,740
Parade? I was like, no. I didn’t know what that is. And game changer of

1044
01:05:17,740 –> 01:05:21,275
a song. And now it’s funny because, like, I’ll see people who I

1045
01:05:21,275 –> 01:05:24,575
knew listen to this in, like, late teens, early twenties.

1046
01:05:25,915 –> 01:05:29,295
Now they know really what what it’s about, and now they’re

1047
01:05:29,595 –> 01:05:33,434
against it. Like, what do you think they were talking about this whole

1048
01:05:33,434 –> 01:05:37,280
time? You know? And, and when we get to that

1049
01:05:37,280 –> 01:05:40,880
level, that’s kinda like, these people don’t even know what

1050
01:05:40,880 –> 01:05:44,640
they’re championing, right, in in some levels, which is very,

1051
01:05:44,640 –> 01:05:47,700
very interesting. But Well and I wonder

1052
01:05:50,125 –> 01:05:53,345
I wonder if the if the consistent uphill battle is

1053
01:05:53,565 –> 01:05:56,705
between not because it’s an uphill battle. Maybe I shouldn’t frame it this way.

1054
01:05:57,485 –> 01:06:01,325
I wonder if that no. I’ll I’ll go a 3rd way. I’m having

1055
01:06:01,325 –> 01:06:03,405
a thought in a middle of a thought middle of a thought. I’m gonna go

1056
01:06:03,405 –> 01:06:07,109
a 3rd way. So the, the, the title of this section of

1057
01:06:07,109 –> 01:06:10,630
the podcast is, the day after the totalitarians win the war for

1058
01:06:10,630 –> 01:06:14,390
control of your mind. Right? No one ever, ever

1059
01:06:14,390 –> 01:06:17,930
asked this question. What happens after the totalitarians win?

1060
01:06:18,785 –> 01:06:22,545
What happens after, like, the cap and betties win? Because they’re let’s

1061
01:06:22,785 –> 01:06:26,305
the the good guys don’t always win. Sometimes the bad guys

1062
01:06:26,305 –> 01:06:29,525
win. The bad guys definitely get a vote, as would

1063
01:06:29,665 –> 01:06:33,505
say. And sometimes their vote is good enough to win the

1064
01:06:33,505 –> 01:06:36,270
day, and then they rule.

1065
01:06:37,770 –> 01:06:41,150
And 1984 is sort of the classic novel

1066
01:06:41,369 –> 01:06:45,210
of the classic, the totalitarians win, and we’re all

1067
01:06:45,210 –> 01:06:48,490
being repressed. Right? And of course, George Orwell was writing this in the face of

1068
01:06:48,490 –> 01:06:52,315
Soviet oppression where from his perspective, and I think from the perspective

1069
01:06:52,315 –> 01:06:55,755
of most thinking people in the 20th century, the

1070
01:06:55,755 –> 01:06:59,214
totalitarians won. I mean, hell, you know, London said he was a totalitarian.

1071
01:06:59,674 –> 01:07:03,295
He wasn’t had nothing. And so they won the day

1072
01:07:03,380 –> 01:07:07,060
and they got to implement their rule and they got to implement their solutions to

1073
01:07:07,060 –> 01:07:10,120
their problems or to the problems that they saw in,

1074
01:07:11,460 –> 01:07:15,300
market capitalism. And they got to run that experiment for 80

1075
01:07:15,300 –> 01:07:18,920
years in a country just to kind of see if it was gonna work. Mhmm.

1076
01:07:19,245 –> 01:07:23,005
So we know what happens the day after totalitarian. One

1077
01:07:23,005 –> 01:07:26,765
of my gigantic concerns in the early

1078
01:07:26,765 –> 01:07:29,825
part of the 20th century is, and I’m seeing this particularly.

1079
01:07:30,685 –> 01:07:33,665
And we talked a lot about books and libraries in the first part of this

1080
01:07:34,860 –> 01:07:38,540
When people don’t read the books, because the books are where the stories

1081
01:07:38,540 –> 01:07:41,680
are about the toe, what happens after the totalitarians win.

1082
01:07:42,380 –> 01:07:46,060
They don’t respect the history that came before them. And thus we wind up in

1083
01:07:46,060 –> 01:07:48,825
the same ditch that we wound up in before. Agreed.

1084
01:07:50,085 –> 01:07:53,845
Just with a different flavor of people with different names, maybe even in

1085
01:07:53,845 –> 01:07:57,605
some cases, let me be egalitarian, different colors and

1086
01:07:57,605 –> 01:07:59,785
different genders, but they all have the same mindset.

1087
01:08:04,750 –> 01:08:08,509
Like, during during the pandemic, I was reading like, that’s where I found

1088
01:08:08,509 –> 01:08:12,349
stoicism and really started to kinda it was a thing that I was

1089
01:08:12,349 –> 01:08:15,730
I was interested in, but during the pandemic is when I really needed to, like,

1090
01:08:16,335 –> 01:08:19,715
apply it because I was struggling, you know, and, you know, lockdown.

1091
01:08:20,415 –> 01:08:24,175
And, one of the

1092
01:08:24,175 –> 01:08:28,015
things, Ryan Holiday is you know, he writes a lot about philosophy

1093
01:08:28,015 –> 01:08:31,375
and cynicism and everything. Mhmm. And he was just kinda talking about this

1094
01:08:31,375 –> 01:08:34,990
idea that, like, this isn’t the first time we’ve had a

1095
01:08:34,990 –> 01:08:38,830
major lockdown. You know? Like like, let’s go back and let’s look at the

1096
01:08:38,990 –> 01:08:42,830
I think it’s, like, the 19 12 Spanish influenza thing. Right? Like, there’s a big

1097
01:08:42,830 –> 01:08:46,590
thing there. And because we were so stupid, oh,

1098
01:08:46,590 –> 01:08:50,045
this can’t happen to us. There’s no we’re so much smarter.

1099
01:08:50,665 –> 01:08:54,205
And all these things, we end up creating something

1100
01:08:55,065 –> 01:08:58,605
markedly similar. Oh, yeah. You know? And

1101
01:08:58,985 –> 01:09:02,025
it’s funny because I talk about this with, like, some of the owners and founders

1102
01:09:02,025 –> 01:09:05,649
that I talked to of, you know, hey. Were you were you

1103
01:09:05,649 –> 01:09:08,770
around in, like, o eight? Were you in business? Were you doing anything? Were you

1104
01:09:08,770 –> 01:09:12,370
in sales? Because let me tell you, it was rough. I was in sales.

1105
01:09:12,370 –> 01:09:16,210
Right? And, you know, it was rough for a while after that. You

1106
01:09:16,210 –> 01:09:19,274
had to earn the trust back, and some people still don’t trust finance people and

1107
01:09:19,274 –> 01:09:22,955
mortgages and things like that. And then we had the same thing happen around

1108
01:09:22,955 –> 01:09:26,715
COVID. Right? And so, like, you can see it

1109
01:09:26,715 –> 01:09:30,314
for the recurring patterns of what it is, or you can try to, like, oh,

1110
01:09:30,314 –> 01:09:33,729
these two things are not similar, but I feel like those people always have an

1111
01:09:33,729 –> 01:09:37,490
have an agenda. Oh, yeah. Really serve everyone else

1112
01:09:37,490 –> 01:09:41,330
when they should be looking for the for the overlap, the commonality. Well, they’re the

1113
01:09:41,330 –> 01:09:45,090
bosses of the captain babies. Yes. Exactly. Right. They’re the people

1114
01:09:45,090 –> 01:09:48,314
that are giving the captain babies of the world, the marching It’s the status quo

1115
01:09:48,314 –> 01:09:51,915
push. Right? Like, you know, and yeah. I

1116
01:09:51,915 –> 01:09:55,675
mean, I such a such

1117
01:09:55,675 –> 01:09:59,215
an interesting reread. You know? Like, I I spent time kinda wondering

1118
01:09:59,610 –> 01:10:02,330
what would it be like to read this for the very first time at my

1119
01:10:02,330 –> 01:10:06,090
age with my experience that would be kinda kinda unique. Mhmm.

1120
01:10:06,090 –> 01:10:09,929
Because the thing I the thing that even

1121
01:10:09,929 –> 01:10:13,310
having read this before, right, it had been so many years, I was

1122
01:10:14,045 –> 01:10:17,885
I wasn’t ready for how much, like, content there was in the

1123
01:10:17,885 –> 01:10:21,724
space. Right? That people could turn on these, like, TVs, and they’re being programmed from

1124
01:10:21,724 –> 01:10:25,405
the TVs. Right? And they were but that’s okay. But books are you

1125
01:10:25,405 –> 01:10:28,290
know? So, like, in my head, I’d built it out to be be this very

1126
01:10:28,370 –> 01:10:31,730
sparse, almost like a Star Trek thing. We don’t have Yeah. You know, and everything

1127
01:10:31,730 –> 01:10:35,490
else like that. And not really seeing it for, like, hey. We’re taking away

1128
01:10:35,490 –> 01:10:39,330
the opportunity for other people to inject their ideas, and we’re just creating an opportunity

1129
01:10:39,330 –> 01:10:41,910
for you to be bottle fed the ideas. Right?

1130
01:10:43,405 –> 01:10:47,105
Because then Yep. You don’t even you don’t even realize that you’re missing anything.

1131
01:10:47,565 –> 01:10:51,405
Correct. That’s right. So That’s right. You know? This

1132
01:10:51,405 –> 01:10:54,945
other unique perspective I got a couple of years ago was, like, talking about

1133
01:10:57,720 –> 01:11:01,480
they they were talking about Dante, actually, like like like like Dante’s Inferno,

1134
01:11:01,480 –> 01:11:05,100
and they were talking about this idea that you don’t have to convince

1135
01:11:05,400 –> 01:11:08,540
everyone that the that that the government is wrong.

1136
01:11:09,925 –> 01:11:13,765
You just gotta, like, convince them that the books aren’t worth reading or something like

1137
01:11:13,765 –> 01:11:17,285
that. But the way that it was and I and, god, man, I I I

1138
01:11:17,285 –> 01:11:20,965
wish I could say it because it went through everything, like, every bias that I

1139
01:11:20,965 –> 01:11:23,285
possibly could have put in front of it and just, like, hit me square in

1140
01:11:23,285 –> 01:11:26,960
the head of, like, oh, yeah. That’s very much a thing.

1141
01:11:27,100 –> 01:11:30,480
Very, very much a thing. The so

1142
01:11:30,780 –> 01:11:32,400
this is my problem with,

1143
01:11:37,260 –> 01:11:40,425
the idea of malinformation,

1144
01:11:41,125 –> 01:11:44,885
disinformation. I have a problem with all of

1145
01:11:44,885 –> 01:11:47,545
those terms coming from any government apparatchic.

1146
01:11:49,045 –> 01:11:52,485
Period. Full stop. That’s that’s the period. That’s the end of the sentence. There’s no

1147
01:11:52,485 –> 01:11:56,240
qualifier afterward. There’s no, but there’s no, and I have

1148
01:11:56,240 –> 01:11:59,760
a problem with those words coming from the mouth of anybody who’s getting a

1149
01:11:59,760 –> 01:12:03,360
check based in any kind of way on

1150
01:12:03,360 –> 01:12:07,140
any of my tax dollars. Period. Full stop.

1151
01:12:07,235 –> 01:12:09,795
Just period. That’s the end of the sentence. I don’t I don’t wanna hear you

1152
01:12:09,795 –> 01:12:13,554
even say it. You can think whatever you want, but the human

1153
01:12:13,554 –> 01:12:17,315
brain is the last truly private area until Elon Musk gets

1154
01:12:17,315 –> 01:12:20,855
that neural link thing really wrapped up, and then we’re all boned after that.

1155
01:12:21,074 –> 01:12:24,670
But it’s like, you can think whatever you want,

1156
01:12:25,450 –> 01:12:27,390
but don’t let it drop out your mouth.

1157
01:12:29,130 –> 01:12:32,910
And I’m not naive enough. And this is probably why I,

1158
01:12:32,970 –> 01:12:36,330
even though I have a warrior spirit, I didn’t join the

1159
01:12:36,330 –> 01:12:39,824
military. I’m not. That is not

1160
01:12:39,824 –> 01:12:43,665
naive. I’m not hopeful enough that in the past there was some

1161
01:12:43,665 –> 01:12:47,505
housing on time when some government apparatchik didn’t believe

1162
01:12:47,505 –> 01:12:50,244
this, please. I’ve read too much history.

1163
01:12:51,660 –> 01:12:55,420
They’ve believed this throughout history under any system, but they had the good

1164
01:12:55,420 –> 01:12:59,200
grace to not open their mouth and say it. And what

1165
01:12:59,340 –> 01:13:03,100
troubles me greatly is we’ve lost the the

1166
01:13:03,100 –> 01:13:06,795
government apparatchiks seem to have lost the captain base of the world,

1167
01:13:06,795 –> 01:13:10,395
seem to have lost the ability to keep their mouth shut and just run the

1168
01:13:10,395 –> 01:13:13,855
game. They want to now, in my opinion,

1169
01:13:15,035 –> 01:13:18,740
and this is my opinion, They want to now be,

1170
01:13:18,740 –> 01:13:22,500
be, be applauded for the cleverness with which they are

1171
01:13:22,500 –> 01:13:25,640
running the game and,

1172
01:13:26,900 –> 01:13:30,600
and maybe, and they gussied up by saying, oh, well, we’re informing you.

1173
01:13:31,235 –> 01:13:34,994
But the thing is, even when we only had 5

1174
01:13:34,994 –> 01:13:38,675
channels and 4 newspapers in a town that all

1175
01:13:38,675 –> 01:13:42,355
reported the same thing and, like, three copies of Time Magazine and Reader’s

1176
01:13:42,355 –> 01:13:46,070
Digest that was on everybody’s table, and you talk about

1177
01:13:46,369 –> 01:13:49,670
living in a place, where, you know,

1178
01:13:51,170 –> 01:13:54,850
maybe there weren’t many minorities in the neighborhood, you know, back in the

1179
01:13:54,850 –> 01:13:58,230
day. Mhmm. Even when we had that system,

1180
01:13:59,155 –> 01:14:02,695
we were still for that system in that time

1181
01:14:03,155 –> 01:14:06,695
educated enough as a populist to recognize B. S.

1182
01:14:08,435 –> 01:14:11,955
And so what has well, but what has happened over the course of time

1183
01:14:11,955 –> 01:14:15,750
is not that the public has become less educated to recognize

1184
01:14:15,750 –> 01:14:18,550
BS. And I’m using public as an, a mass term. Okay. I’m not gonna talk

1185
01:14:18,550 –> 01:14:22,389
about specific individuals. The public has, has gotten more

1186
01:14:22,389 –> 01:14:25,850
information and more facts.

1187
01:14:26,625 –> 01:14:30,144
Right. Which by the way, we can access facts, not on

1188
01:14:30,144 –> 01:14:33,985
screens on our walls, like in Fahrenheit 4 51, we now access

1189
01:14:33,985 –> 01:14:37,505
facts. I mean, Bradbury couldn’t have come up with this idea of a

1190
01:14:37,505 –> 01:14:40,800
computer in your pocket. He would that, that Asimov would have come up with that

1191
01:14:40,800 –> 01:14:44,560
idea. That was an Asimov. Yeah. And then, and then Heinlein would have

1192
01:14:44,560 –> 01:14:48,320
taken it to his logical conclusion. That’s what that would have happened. Here’s a vehicle

1193
01:14:48,320 –> 01:14:50,179
that does it for you. Exactly.

1194
01:14:52,640 –> 01:14:56,345
Exactly. But we

1195
01:14:56,345 –> 01:15:00,025
are mainlining facts and information, but

1196
01:15:00,025 –> 01:15:03,705
with very few insights. That’s what we were looking for. We’re looking for

1197
01:15:03,705 –> 01:15:06,765
insights. We’re looking for the meaning behind the facts and the information.

1198
01:15:08,190 –> 01:15:11,550
And so when you, as a government apparatchik, were getting your regular

1199
01:15:11,550 –> 01:15:15,230
check, tell me what the meaning should be, I

1200
01:15:15,230 –> 01:15:18,910
say, no. No. No. I don’t wanna hear

1201
01:15:18,910 –> 01:15:22,635
from you. I I I really don’t. I reject that because to

1202
01:15:22,635 –> 01:15:26,475
me that there’s a thin line there that you’re about to cross into

1203
01:15:26,475 –> 01:15:30,315
the burning of the books. That’s a thin

1204
01:15:30,315 –> 01:15:33,915
line there between just tell me, I’m just gonna tell you which

1205
01:15:33,915 –> 01:15:37,580
information is is, is disinformation and, and

1206
01:15:37,580 –> 01:15:41,180
which information is mal information. I started hearing about that more and which

1207
01:15:41,180 –> 01:15:45,020
information is, is, is, is well, that guy said it

1208
01:15:45,020 –> 01:15:48,320
was fake, but we’re telling you the real thing.

1209
01:15:49,195 –> 01:15:52,415
Yeah. No. You’re both saying the fake thing.

1210
01:15:53,355 –> 01:15:56,875
Yeah. You’re you you making

1211
01:15:56,875 –> 01:16:00,235
news that someone else is lying to you is not the same thing as, like,

1212
01:16:00,235 –> 01:16:03,553
giving me the truth. That’s the thing. Right? Like

1213
01:16:03,940 –> 01:16:07,380
and, like, I mean, it the this is

1214
01:16:07,380 –> 01:16:11,219
slightly tangential, but, like, I worked my

1215
01:16:11,219 –> 01:16:14,739
tail off to build a pretty high wall between, like,

1216
01:16:14,739 –> 01:16:17,915
myself and regular

1217
01:16:18,454 –> 01:16:21,675
news, political news, because

1218
01:16:21,895 –> 01:16:25,594
a, I can’t change anything. Right. And

1219
01:16:25,735 –> 01:16:28,454
like stoic idea, if you can’t, if you can’t put your hands on it and

1220
01:16:28,454 –> 01:16:31,500
change it, it’s outside of your locus of control and your time is better spent

1221
01:16:31,820 –> 01:16:35,580
focusing on what is in your control. Right. So it became very easy, but it,

1222
01:16:35,580 –> 01:16:37,680
but it was on the backside of frustration because.

1223
01:16:39,500 –> 01:16:42,220
What I think that people are doing is that they don’t want to go through

1224
01:16:42,220 –> 01:16:45,875
the process of like having to figure it out for themselves. So it’s easier to

1225
01:16:45,875 –> 01:16:49,475
cling to an identity of some way, shape or form. And you know, that can

1226
01:16:49,475 –> 01:16:53,255
be Christian. It can be military. It can be, you know, the atheists

1227
01:16:53,395 –> 01:16:56,915
that are out there swinging for the fences for, for their message and everything.

1228
01:16:56,915 –> 01:17:00,280
Like, and then when it’s close enough, people just

1229
01:17:00,280 –> 01:17:04,040
go, let it wash over me almost. Right? And it’s

1230
01:17:04,040 –> 01:17:07,719
like, you know, it’s it’s almost like you’re getting baptized by

1231
01:17:07,719 –> 01:17:11,080
this part because you’ve just realized we we agree on

1232
01:17:11,080 –> 01:17:14,805
enough. I can just take your word for the rest of it. And that’s

1233
01:17:14,805 –> 01:17:17,945
problematic thinking. Right? Yes. Yes.

1234
01:17:18,805 –> 01:17:22,005
Yes. And I and maybe this is a fundamental and and I I I will

1235
01:17:22,005 –> 01:17:24,725
say, this is a fundamental difference between me and maybe someone who might be a

1236
01:17:24,725 –> 01:17:27,630
little more progressive than me. This is maybe revealing a little bit more of my

1237
01:17:27,630 –> 01:17:31,469
conservative bonafides, but I tend to

1238
01:17:31,469 –> 01:17:35,310
mistrust that more when it’s coming from a public agency with police force behind

1239
01:17:35,310 –> 01:17:38,989
it. Then I, then I

1240
01:17:38,989 –> 01:17:42,195
worry about maybe like, I don’t know, amazon.com,

1241
01:17:43,055 –> 01:17:46,175
you know, sending me fake and from, you know, whatever. And by the way, yes,

1242
01:17:46,175 –> 01:17:49,855
I understand Jeff Bezos owns the Washington post. I’m not ignorant or naive.

1243
01:17:49,855 –> 01:17:53,535
Right. Like, but I don’t have to buy the Washington post. I

1244
01:17:53,535 –> 01:17:57,160
always make this point. Amazon isn’t sending out like, you

1245
01:17:57,160 –> 01:18:00,920
know, police officers to make me buy stuff from them. I think they’re

1246
01:18:00,920 –> 01:18:04,760
not. But if I don’t pay my taxes, I’m

1247
01:18:04,760 –> 01:18:07,820
just going to show up in my house. Like that police force thing

1248
01:18:08,385 –> 01:18:12,065
is really, really the defining line. Because

1249
01:18:12,065 –> 01:18:15,345
if, if, if, and we saw this with you mentioned COVID, we saw this with

1250
01:18:15,345 –> 01:18:18,465
COVID in certain places, the place that I came out of, we saw this, you

1251
01:18:18,465 –> 01:18:22,239
know, in places like, Well,

1252
01:18:22,239 –> 01:18:24,020
in other places around the world, I mean,

1253
01:18:26,239 –> 01:18:29,599
the government apparatchiks in China were like welding people into their

1254
01:18:29,599 –> 01:18:33,219
houses. Like, you know, so that’s police power.

1255
01:18:33,679 –> 01:18:37,395
That’s the power of life and death at the end of it. Yeah. No

1256
01:18:37,395 –> 01:18:41,175
corporation, none. Even the ones with the most repair rapacious

1257
01:18:41,235 –> 01:18:42,295
lawyers on the planet.

1258
01:18:46,595 –> 01:18:50,062
I love your vocabulary, man. It makes me so happy every time we get to

1259
01:18:50,062 –> 01:18:53,104
talk because, like, I know that I’m gonna get, like, 2 or 3 new words

1260
01:18:53,104 –> 01:18:56,347
that I’m like Rapacious. You like the word rapacious? I’ve never heard that word before.

1261
01:18:56,347 –> 01:18:59,389
I’m gonna have to go spend some time with it. And I’m and I’m so

1262
01:18:59,389 –> 01:19:02,505
excited because it doesn’t happen that often. So thank you. It’s it’s it’s think of

1263
01:19:02,505 –> 01:19:06,185
like, think of like a, a honey Badger cross with like a Wolverine just

1264
01:19:06,185 –> 01:19:09,725
tearing through something that’s rapacious. Yeah. I’m with you.

1265
01:19:09,945 –> 01:19:13,385
Right? Like, yeah. BlackRock may have private military

1266
01:19:13,385 –> 01:19:17,165
contractors, but they can be stopped. Yes.

1267
01:19:17,800 –> 01:19:21,480
No one’s gonna stop the ATF if they wanna knock down my

1268
01:19:21,480 –> 01:19:25,320
door with a no knock warrant. Oh, I I have a version

1269
01:19:25,320 –> 01:19:29,100
of this conversation with, some friends of mine because,

1270
01:19:30,200 –> 01:19:33,925
I am more liberal than most people in our

1271
01:19:34,225 –> 01:19:37,985
locale. Right? Like, you know, lumping in North Texas. Yeah.

1272
01:19:37,985 –> 01:19:41,505
I’m pretty I’m pretty pretty progressive just by comparison. You know?

1273
01:19:41,505 –> 01:19:45,265
Sure. But I think zoomed out, you know, I’m left

1274
01:19:45,265 –> 01:19:49,110
of center, but, like, I’m not far left or anything. You know? Yeah. But

1275
01:19:49,110 –> 01:19:52,470
when I talk to some of my friends who were, you

1276
01:19:52,470 –> 01:19:56,310
know, very, I would say, probably a

1277
01:19:56,310 –> 01:19:59,930
little too enthusiastic about, you know, weapons and everything.

1278
01:20:00,710 –> 01:20:04,515
And they it always comes back down to this idea of, like, well, you know,

1279
01:20:04,515 –> 01:20:07,955
what what’s that Benjamin Franklin quote? You know, they they take away the guns and

1280
01:20:07,955 –> 01:20:11,075
and everything. And I’m like, you know, this is always where they go. And I’m

1281
01:20:11,075 –> 01:20:14,835
like, you know, you would never even know if they

1282
01:20:14,835 –> 01:20:18,040
decided to take you out. Like Well

1283
01:20:20,200 –> 01:20:23,960
Like you would think that, but I I would the only

1284
01:20:23,960 –> 01:20:27,560
pushback I would give on that is current events within the

1285
01:20:27,560 –> 01:20:31,000
last summer have proven that the folks who should know how to take it out

1286
01:20:31,160 –> 01:20:34,974
people out. I I believe we’re in

1287
01:20:34,974 –> 01:20:37,715
a crisis of incompetency at all levels. Let’s just say that.

1288
01:20:39,054 –> 01:20:41,614
Well We can’t And that and that brings up a good spin. You know? But,

1289
01:20:41,614 –> 01:20:45,295
like, I have I I have I have friends who have, you

1290
01:20:45,295 –> 01:20:48,930
know, a smattering of pistols. Sure. Right? And to

1291
01:20:48,930 –> 01:20:52,770
them, they think that that’s gonna be the game

1292
01:20:52,770 –> 01:20:56,150
changer. Oh, well, yeah. Those people are foolish. Yeah. Like like

1293
01:20:57,490 –> 01:21:01,030
I’m sorry. Right? If if that is really your perspective,

1294
01:21:01,355 –> 01:21:05,114
you’re actually going out and training. You’re not just hoarding and collecting something you

1295
01:21:05,114 –> 01:21:08,955
feel tough in public. Right. You’re actually going to ranges. You’re you’re you’re

1296
01:21:08,955 –> 01:21:12,395
doing the thing. You’re not that far, so this is kinda, like, not

1297
01:21:12,395 –> 01:21:15,855
real perspective. You’re just looking for a reason to hold on to your idea.

1298
01:21:15,995 –> 01:21:19,730
Because, like, if they if, you know, if they made that

1299
01:21:19,730 –> 01:21:23,570
decision, they would make that decision, and people would have problems with it. Right?

1300
01:21:23,570 –> 01:21:27,330
But and I’m not even saying that that is the solution. So before anybody at

1301
01:21:27,330 –> 01:21:30,690
me or comes after me or anything else like this, I’m not even against gun

1302
01:21:30,690 –> 01:21:34,415
ownership. I think it should be harder to get a gun than it currently

1303
01:21:34,415 –> 01:21:38,034
is, but I also think that if you decide to go through that

1304
01:21:38,335 –> 01:21:41,795
that idea and you think that just owning the gun is enough,

1305
01:21:42,255 –> 01:21:46,070
you’re so fundamentally not on the level that that that

1306
01:21:46,070 –> 01:21:49,770
you should probably not qualify for having that kind of weapon.

1307
01:21:49,990 –> 01:21:53,770
Personal opinion. Well no. No. And I I, you know, I don’t

1308
01:21:54,630 –> 01:21:57,290
as a person who is slightly to the right of center,

1309
01:21:58,585 –> 01:22:02,285
I don’t, I don’t just based on my life experiences and things that I’ve seen,

1310
01:22:02,985 –> 01:22:06,665
I don’t disagree with that. And I would

1311
01:22:06,665 –> 01:22:10,205
say that we need

1312
01:22:10,425 –> 01:22:14,190
to be checking the captain

1313
01:22:14,190 –> 01:22:17,869
babies and the bureaucrats of the world using all the available tools we

1314
01:22:17,869 –> 01:22:21,010
have before we go to those tools. Agree.

1315
01:22:22,269 –> 01:22:26,050
I am also deeply troubled by the lack of faith

1316
01:22:26,775 –> 01:22:29,355
by people of all across all political spectrums,

1317
01:22:30,535 –> 01:22:34,235
whether you are the anarcho libertarian on the, on the right,

1318
01:22:35,255 –> 01:22:38,475
or you’re the socialist Marxist progressive on the left.

1319
01:22:38,940 –> 01:22:42,540
I am, I am deeply concerned by the lack of faith in our elect or

1320
01:22:42,540 –> 01:22:46,380
of the, the, the, not only like Torah process, but also the, the, what

1321
01:22:46,380 –> 01:22:49,740
do you call it solidity of our electoral process? Because I think of

1322
01:22:49,740 –> 01:22:53,244
that. If the belief in that system by

1323
01:22:53,244 –> 01:22:57,085
regular people, I’m not talking about the weirdos who hang out and yell on

1324
01:22:57,085 –> 01:23:00,525
the internet at each other. Those people are ridiculous. I’m talking about

1325
01:23:00,525 –> 01:23:04,125
like one of my neighbors is this cause, he owns a

1326
01:23:04,125 –> 01:23:07,780
construction company in California. Right. He’s He’s a regular

1327
01:23:07,780 –> 01:23:10,920
dude. He didn’t get past high school. Like he’s a regular dude.

1328
01:23:11,540 –> 01:23:15,140
And when he says to me, does my vote even

1329
01:23:15,140 –> 01:23:18,820
matter? That’s a problem. That’s

1330
01:23:18,820 –> 01:23:22,614
that’s a problem is my vote being counted. That’s a problem. Like that guy

1331
01:23:22,614 –> 01:23:25,435
has to have faith in the system because that guy gets up every day

1332
01:23:26,855 –> 01:23:30,614
with the system just sort of running in the background.

1333
01:23:30,614 –> 01:23:33,975
And what COVID did was it disrupted so much of that for

1334
01:23:33,975 –> 01:23:37,510
people in general. I would agree with that.

1335
01:23:37,690 –> 01:23:41,390
Had that disrupted for them before, and they didn’t the

1336
01:23:41,390 –> 01:23:45,070
things that they thought were solid, and he’s in his he’s in his sixties

1337
01:23:45,070 –> 01:23:48,590
now, but the things that they thought were solid for their the majority of their

1338
01:23:48,590 –> 01:23:52,335
adult life proved to be paper tigers. Oh,

1339
01:23:52,335 –> 01:23:56,175
well, I mean, welcome to the party, guys. It was not right. I thought

1340
01:23:56,175 –> 01:23:59,855
it was. Right. But if I’m a construction worker who didn’t get

1341
01:23:59,855 –> 01:24:03,695
past high school and I’ve done kind of okay

1342
01:24:03,695 –> 01:24:07,410
for myself. Right. But I never really had to think about it.

1343
01:24:07,410 –> 01:24:09,770
Cause I pay, man, I pay my taxes and I pay my employees. What do

1344
01:24:09,770 –> 01:24:12,850
you want me to do? Like, and you’ve run across business owners like this. Well,

1345
01:24:12,850 –> 01:24:16,630
they got to really, I got to think about this thing now, like,

1346
01:24:17,250 –> 01:24:21,015
really, you know? And those are

1347
01:24:21,015 –> 01:24:24,855
the vast majority of people. And so the captain babies

1348
01:24:24,855 –> 01:24:28,155
of the world, I think had a better understanding

1349
01:24:28,855 –> 01:24:31,735
probably about 2 or 3 generations ago. And I think there has been an erosion.

1350
01:24:31,735 –> 01:24:35,370
This is where I talk about the crisis of incompetency, but there has been an

1351
01:24:35,370 –> 01:24:38,429
erosion over the course of time of the captain babies of the world. Understanding

1352
01:24:38,730 –> 01:24:42,330
that their job is to make sure that the system stays up without everybody ever

1353
01:24:42,330 –> 01:24:45,850
noticing they were. Exactly. And,

1354
01:24:46,090 –> 01:24:49,845
and I think that’s what we’ve lost in

1355
01:24:49,845 –> 01:24:52,905
the pursuit of everybody wanting to be famous on, like, you know, Twitter.

1356
01:24:54,165 –> 01:24:57,845
Okay. I have a question potentially. X, whatever the hell it is. Yeah.

1357
01:24:57,845 –> 01:25:01,685
Whatever that is. It feels like on one mobile, you’re saying that captain Badia shouldn’t

1358
01:25:01,685 –> 01:25:05,309
be there, but then it also feels like like you’re now describing that there’s

1359
01:25:05,309 –> 01:25:09,070
a gap because because we don’t have people willing to be

1360
01:25:09,070 –> 01:25:12,909
that. Let’s just keep everything moving. Right. No. I I don’t

1361
01:25:12,909 –> 01:25:16,750
think captain Baty should be there. Okay. But if captain Baty is going

1362
01:25:16,750 –> 01:25:20,315
to be there We need more of them? Yeah. Well,

1363
01:25:20,315 –> 01:25:23,535
no. No. No. No. I would rather there not be

1364
01:25:25,675 –> 01:25:29,195
I’d say what I at a deeper level of detail about the words. I

1365
01:25:29,195 –> 01:25:31,775
I I object to the arrogance and the hubris.

1366
01:25:34,090 –> 01:25:37,930
That’s what I I would rather if we’re gonna have captain Beatty’s all over the

1367
01:25:37,930 –> 01:25:41,530
place, which to a certain degree, I guess, we will. Fine. The

1368
01:25:41,530 –> 01:25:45,370
the the the number of them will vary, you know, 10 or a100.

1369
01:25:45,370 –> 01:25:48,090
I think they’re all probably equal. From me and my perspective, they’re all equally bad.

1370
01:25:48,090 –> 01:25:51,876
Get rid of all of them. But okay.

1371
01:25:51,876 –> 01:25:54,603
If we’re not, I’d rather have 10 than a 100. You know? Sure. Okay. Fine.

1372
01:25:54,603 –> 01:25:58,385
So 10 captain betties that are that are humble, I will take

1373
01:25:58,385 –> 01:26:01,719
over a 100 captain betties that are arrogant. Oh,

1374
01:26:01,940 –> 01:26:05,780
man. Yeah. I talk, I talk about this idea of

1375
01:26:05,780 –> 01:26:09,219
being expectant, which is entitled or being

1376
01:26:09,219 –> 01:26:12,600
enabling. Right? Because like, I think the good leadership is enabling leadership.

1377
01:26:13,140 –> 01:26:15,640
And it’s so funny because I talk about,

1378
01:26:17,065 –> 01:26:20,825
just kind of like knowing what you need in the leadership for you to, for

1379
01:26:20,825 –> 01:26:24,185
you to flourish. Right. And I

1380
01:26:24,185 –> 01:26:27,805
cannot work under like a middle manager,

1381
01:26:27,865 –> 01:26:31,340
like Beatty. Like, I like, I just can’t. Because

1382
01:26:31,400 –> 01:26:35,080
inside of that conversation, and this has just happened to me so many times

1383
01:26:35,080 –> 01:26:38,680
now that I can see it for what it is, I’m

1384
01:26:38,680 –> 01:26:42,300
gonna I’m gonna ask 3 to 4 questions, like, looking for connection

1385
01:26:42,600 –> 01:26:46,135
to other things. And these people don’t have those kind of

1386
01:26:46,135 –> 01:26:49,575
answers. Right? And this was such a problem whenever I was a

1387
01:26:49,575 –> 01:26:53,195
salesperson in bigger corporate structures where where, like, my sales manager

1388
01:26:53,415 –> 01:26:57,015
who came up on an ops path and has never been in a sales role

1389
01:26:57,015 –> 01:27:00,659
ever is just like, well, you should just keep following up because you’re the

1390
01:27:00,659 –> 01:27:04,099
difference. Okay. Explain to me how that works. John, I don’t have time to answer

1391
01:27:04,099 –> 01:27:07,000
all your questions. I just need you to go out and hit the goal because

1392
01:27:07,139 –> 01:27:10,820
this should work. It’s working. And and I already know you’re full of

1393
01:27:10,820 –> 01:27:14,605
shit. Sorry. Am I allowed to curse on here? Yeah. You’re fine. You’re

1394
01:27:14,605 –> 01:27:18,365
fine. And so, you know, in in that moment, once you show yourself to

1395
01:27:18,365 –> 01:27:21,645
me that you don’t either know why this is connected or why we’re doing it,

1396
01:27:21,645 –> 01:27:24,829
I can’t even I can’t even go with you. And I don’t know if this

1397
01:27:24,829 –> 01:27:27,630
is me being a c. I I don’t know if this is me being private

1398
01:27:27,630 –> 01:27:31,309
service military and just having kinda, like, maybe ridiculously high

1399
01:27:31,309 –> 01:27:35,070
standards for the people who who wanna be, like, my leader. But,

1400
01:27:35,070 –> 01:27:38,715
like, as soon as I see that gap, I’m I

1401
01:27:38,715 –> 01:27:41,835
can’t I can’t go with you. Right? Mhmm. And then this is part of the

1402
01:27:41,835 –> 01:27:44,395
reason why I work for myself is because, like, I know that I’m gonna run

1403
01:27:44,395 –> 01:27:48,155
into that somewhere. Mhmm. And then it just I

1404
01:27:48,155 –> 01:27:51,960
turn, and then I start becoming, well, let me go find all the other

1405
01:27:51,960 –> 01:27:55,639
cracks, all the other answers and everything else. Right? And it’s not good. You know?

1406
01:27:55,639 –> 01:27:59,239
Let me start let me start pulling that thread. Oh, yeah. Don’t pull the

1407
01:27:59,239 –> 01:28:02,679
threads. Don’t pull the threads. Right? Like and and,

1408
01:28:02,679 –> 01:28:06,380
honestly, if you’re a curious person, curious person here. Right? Mhmm.

1409
01:28:07,825 –> 01:28:10,465
Go figure out how to ask questions in a way so that you can be

1410
01:28:10,465 –> 01:28:14,085
heard the right way. Because half the time when I’m looking for these connection points,

1411
01:28:14,225 –> 01:28:17,985
they take it as, like, I’m looking for answers. Right. Right? And, really,

1412
01:28:17,985 –> 01:28:21,730
that’s just how I communicate. So I think it

1413
01:28:21,730 –> 01:28:25,410
kinda goes back down to, like, a lack of leadership in the form of

1414
01:28:25,730 –> 01:28:28,690
Beatty is just thinking, like, I’m just gonna say this, and it’s gonna work, and

1415
01:28:28,690 –> 01:28:31,810
then I’m gonna leave, and everything is just gonna go back to normal. Mhmm. Right?

1416
01:28:31,810 –> 01:28:35,250
Imagine how many other times he’s given that same speech with how it’s, like, talked

1417
01:28:35,250 –> 01:28:38,965
about. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He’s like, oh, well, and that’s why

1418
01:28:39,045 –> 01:28:42,485
and I love it how Bradbury puts this. You know, he has him, like, or

1419
01:28:42,485 –> 01:28:45,785
how he frames it. He has him lighting the, the lighter

1420
01:28:46,165 –> 01:28:49,205
and then blowing it out in lighting. And the smoke just starts billowing up in

1421
01:28:49,205 –> 01:28:52,670
the room. And it sort of put me in mind, weirdly enough, of The Wizard

1422
01:28:52,670 –> 01:28:56,450
of Oz. Interesting. Okay. You know, the the wizard

1423
01:28:56,989 –> 01:29:00,670
in the, you know, the 19 thirties movie where, you know,

1424
01:29:00,670 –> 01:29:03,810
Oz is the great and terrible, and it’s the smoke effects.

1425
01:29:04,085 –> 01:29:07,625
Yep. And so it’s and, of course,

1426
01:29:08,165 –> 01:29:11,705
you know, if you know anything about the Wizard of Oz, you know that,

1427
01:29:13,284 –> 01:29:16,185
that the the wizard was a flimflam man.

1428
01:29:17,125 –> 01:29:18,985
The wizard was a scammer.

1429
01:29:21,000 –> 01:29:24,360
He was selling a game. Yep. And I

1430
01:29:24,360 –> 01:29:28,140
think Bradbury is subtly for those who are paying attention

1431
01:29:28,520 –> 01:29:32,200
is subtly sort of intimating that this government

1432
01:29:32,200 –> 01:29:34,995
apparatchik is pulling a game. Mhmm.

1433
01:29:36,015 –> 01:29:39,155
And he’s doing it behind a smokescreen. You know?

1434
01:29:40,255 –> 01:29:44,094
And that’s a very powerful kind of idea there,

1435
01:29:44,094 –> 01:29:46,815
which of course ties into the book burning and all the other all the other

1436
01:29:46,815 –> 01:29:49,860
kind of elements. But it it is operating at that

1437
01:29:50,260 –> 01:29:53,800
secondary or maybe even tertiary psychological level in the book.

1438
01:29:54,739 –> 01:29:57,460
And I don’t know if that was intentional or if that was just something that

1439
01:29:57,460 –> 01:29:59,940
he put in there. It’s like, oh, this is gonna be a good descriptor. This

1440
01:29:59,940 –> 01:30:02,260
is how I’m framing it in my head. And he just and sometimes you do

1441
01:30:02,260 –> 01:30:05,074
that as a writer. You just write the framing that’s in your head because the

1442
01:30:05,074 –> 01:30:08,915
narrative drives you to a certain place. Yep. Stephen King talks about

1443
01:30:08,915 –> 01:30:12,215
about a lot about this in odd writing, you know, where

1444
01:30:12,755 –> 01:30:16,034
you start out thinking you’re driving the car, and then it turns out that you

1445
01:30:16,034 –> 01:30:19,650
and the characters are switching. And now you’re on the back, and you’re just you’re

1446
01:30:19,650 –> 01:30:23,250
along for the ride. I did some reading about his writing

1447
01:30:23,250 –> 01:30:27,090
process because the way that he writes is very much he has an

1448
01:30:27,090 –> 01:30:29,890
idea. He’ll kinda flush it out. He’ll flush it out, but he kinda holds himself

1449
01:30:29,890 –> 01:30:33,285
apart from it. And then it’s like, okay, baby, it’s

1450
01:30:33,285 –> 01:30:37,045
typewriter time. So like, I, I think, I think I read and I’m

1451
01:30:37,045 –> 01:30:40,025
happy to be wrong that he, that he wrote this in 9 days.

1452
01:30:40,965 –> 01:30:44,645
Yes. Right. He rented a typewriter for 10¢ an hour or something like that. 10¢

1453
01:30:44,645 –> 01:30:48,480
an hour. Isn’t that crazy? And and, like, that idea of

1454
01:30:48,480 –> 01:30:52,200
I know that I gotta move quickly through this or else it’s gonna change Mhmm.

1455
01:30:52,400 –> 01:30:55,860
I think then creates that flow state of him being able to get,

1456
01:30:56,400 –> 01:31:00,080
like, as deep into the books as he is. Right? So, like, I I think

1457
01:31:00,080 –> 01:31:03,744
that they’re tied together. But that thing blew me away as a guy

1458
01:31:03,744 –> 01:31:06,864
who’s been working on a second book for a lot longer than 9 days. And

1459
01:31:06,864 –> 01:31:09,985
I’m still, like, trying to figure out exactly what this thing is gonna be at

1460
01:31:09,985 –> 01:31:13,744
the final end of it. You know? But just that idea of, like, I’ve got

1461
01:31:13,744 –> 01:31:17,219
this idea. I’m gonna hit it hard because he wants the character to take

1462
01:31:17,219 –> 01:31:20,900
over the driving. Right? He wants to invest himself so fully in this

1463
01:31:20,900 –> 01:31:24,579
character that, like, he can’t even see it for himself

1464
01:31:24,579 –> 01:31:27,860
whenever he’s trying to put his finger on it and stuff like that. And, like,

1465
01:31:27,860 –> 01:31:31,595
that to me is such such an interesting way to approach

1466
01:31:31,655 –> 01:31:34,395
the entire process because, like, as a control freak,

1467
01:31:35,815 –> 01:31:39,195
that’s everything I don’t wanna do. You know what I’m saying? Yeah.

1468
01:31:39,415 –> 01:31:42,875
Well yes. Well and and and that’s the difference,

1469
01:31:42,935 –> 01:31:46,650
interestingly enough. Well, we’re gonna talk about this a little bit

1470
01:31:46,650 –> 01:31:49,930
because we’re gonna talk about Faber. Let’s talk about Faber. Yes. Please talk about Faber.

1471
01:31:49,930 –> 01:31:53,370
Let’s talk about Faber. Faber is the sort of the counter captain

1472
01:31:53,370 –> 01:31:57,130
Beatty. He he he is in when you send over your notes

1473
01:31:57,130 –> 01:32:00,485
for the show Mhmm. And you talked about Faber Mhmm.

1474
01:32:00,725 –> 01:32:04,485
Immediate unique perspective, because I was not

1475
01:32:04,485 –> 01:32:07,765
seeing him the same way that you are talking about him, at least in the

1476
01:32:07,765 –> 01:32:10,325
notes that you sent me. So I’m gonna shut up and let you drive. Sorry.

1477
01:32:10,325 –> 01:32:13,800
Okay. Alright. No. No. It’s alright. So back to the book, back to Fahrenheit

1478
01:32:13,800 –> 01:32:17,560
451. Let’s meet Faber, a man who’s

1479
01:32:17,560 –> 01:32:20,219
going to help out mister Montag.

1480
01:32:24,745 –> 01:32:28,345
Favor sniff to the book. Do you know that books smell like nutmeg or some

1481
01:32:28,345 –> 01:32:30,985
spice from a foreign land? I love to smell them when I was a boy.

1482
01:32:30,985 –> 01:32:34,125
Lord, there were a lot of lovely books once before we let them go.

1483
01:32:34,745 –> 01:32:38,360
Favorite turn the pages, Mr. Montag, you were looking at a coward. I

1484
01:32:38,360 –> 01:32:42,039
saw the way things were going a long time back. I said nothing. I wanted

1485
01:32:42,039 –> 01:32:44,920
the innocence who could have spoken up and out when no one would listen to

1486
01:32:44,920 –> 01:32:47,980
the guilty, but I did not speak and thus became guilty myself.

1487
01:32:48,679 –> 01:32:52,280
And finally they set the structure to burn books using the fireman. I grunted a

1488
01:32:52,280 –> 01:32:56,094
few times as subsided, but there were no others grunting or yelling with

1489
01:32:56,094 –> 01:32:59,235
me by then. Now it’s too late.

1490
01:32:59,855 –> 01:33:03,695
They were closed the Bible. So what would you tell me why you

1491
01:33:03,695 –> 01:33:07,490
came here? Nobody listens anymore. I can’t talk to the walls

1492
01:33:07,490 –> 01:33:10,770
because they’re yelling at me. I can’t talk to my wife. She listens to the

1493
01:33:10,770 –> 01:33:13,730
walls. I just want someone to hear what I have to say. And maybe if

1494
01:33:13,730 –> 01:33:16,370
I talk long enough, it’ll make sense. And I want you to teach me to

1495
01:33:16,370 –> 01:33:20,075
understand what I read. Favor examined Montauk’s

1496
01:33:20,135 –> 01:33:23,895
thin, blue jowled face. How did you get shaken up? What

1497
01:33:23,895 –> 01:33:27,495
knocked the torch out of your hands? I don’t know. We have

1498
01:33:27,495 –> 01:33:31,015
everything we need to be happy, but we aren’t happy. Something’s missing. I looked around.

1499
01:33:31,015 –> 01:33:34,780
The only thing I positively knew was gone was the books I burned

1500
01:33:34,780 –> 01:33:37,600
in 10 or 12 years, so I thought books might help.

1501
01:33:40,220 –> 01:33:43,840
Your hopeless romantic said Faber. It would be funny if it were not serious.

1502
01:33:43,980 –> 01:33:47,200
It’s not the books you need. It’s some of the things that were once in

1503
01:33:47,260 –> 01:33:50,865
books. The same things could be in the parlor families

1504
01:33:50,865 –> 01:33:54,545
today. The same infinite detail and awareness could be projected through the radios and television,

1505
01:33:54,545 –> 01:33:57,665
but are not. No. No. No. No. It’s not books at all you’re looking for.

1506
01:33:57,665 –> 01:34:01,345
Take it where you can find it in old phonograph records, old

1507
01:34:01,345 –> 01:34:04,540
motion pictures, and in old friends. Look for it in nature and look for it

1508
01:34:04,540 –> 01:34:08,300
in yourself. Books are only one type of receptacle where we stored a lot of

1509
01:34:08,300 –> 01:34:11,980
things we were afraid we might forget. There’s nothing magical in them at all. The

1510
01:34:11,980 –> 01:34:15,500
magic is only what books say, how they stitch the patches of the universe together

1511
01:34:15,500 –> 01:34:18,965
into one garment for us. Of course, you couldn’t know this. Of course, you still

1512
01:34:18,965 –> 01:34:22,565
can’t understand what I mean when I say all this. You are intuitively right. That’s

1513
01:34:22,565 –> 01:34:26,405
what counts. Three things are missing. Number 1, do

1514
01:34:26,405 –> 01:34:30,085
you know why books such as this are so important? Because they have a

1515
01:34:30,085 –> 01:34:33,900
quality. And what does the word quality mean? To me, it means

1516
01:34:33,900 –> 01:34:37,739
texture. This book has pores. It has features. This book

1517
01:34:37,739 –> 01:34:41,579
can go under the microscope. You’d find life under the glass, streaming past

1518
01:34:41,579 –> 01:34:45,055
an infinite perfusion. The more pores, the more truthfully

1519
01:34:45,115 –> 01:34:48,315
recorded details of life per square inch you can get on a sheet of paper,

1520
01:34:48,315 –> 01:34:51,755
the more literary you are. That’s my definition anyway. Telling

1521
01:34:51,755 –> 01:34:55,115
detail, fresh detail. The good writers touch life

1522
01:34:55,115 –> 01:34:58,809
often. The mediocre ones run a quick hand over her. The bad ones,

1523
01:34:58,809 –> 01:35:02,650
rape her and leave her for the flies. So how

1524
01:35:02,650 –> 01:35:06,090
now do you see why books are hated and feared? They show the pores in

1525
01:35:06,090 –> 01:35:09,849
the face of life. The comfortable people only want wax moon faces, poreless,

1526
01:35:09,849 –> 01:35:13,614
hairless expressionless. We We are living in a time when flowers are trying to

1527
01:35:13,614 –> 01:35:17,215
live on flowers instead of growing a good rain, black loam, even

1528
01:35:17,215 –> 01:35:20,415
fireworks for all their prettiness come from the chemistry of the earth. Yet somehow we

1529
01:35:20,415 –> 01:35:24,175
think we can grow, beating on flowers and fireworks without completing the

1530
01:35:24,175 –> 01:35:27,900
cycle back to reality. Do you know the legend of Hercules

1531
01:35:27,900 –> 01:35:31,740
and NTS? The giant wrestler whose strength was incredible so long as he stood firmly

1532
01:35:31,740 –> 01:35:35,500
on the earth, but when he was held rootless in midair by Hercules, he

1533
01:35:35,500 –> 01:35:39,260
perished easily. If there isn’t something in that legend for us today, in this

1534
01:35:39,260 –> 01:35:42,994
city, in our time that I am completely insane. Oh, there we have the first

1535
01:35:42,994 –> 01:35:46,215
thing I said we needed quality texture of information

1536
01:35:47,155 –> 01:35:50,775
and the second leisure. Oh, well, we’ve got plenty of off hours

1537
01:35:50,835 –> 01:35:54,514
off hours. Yes. But time to think if you’re not driving a 100 miles an

1538
01:35:54,514 –> 01:35:56,835
hour at a clip, when you can’t think of anything else with the danger, then

1539
01:35:56,835 –> 01:35:59,360
you’re playing some game or sitting in some room where you can’t argue with the

1540
01:35:59,360 –> 01:36:03,119
4 wall televisor. Why televisor is real. It

1541
01:36:03,119 –> 01:36:06,480
is immediate. It has dimension. It tells you what’s to think and blast city and

1542
01:36:06,480 –> 01:36:10,239
it must be right. Seems so right. It rushes

1543
01:36:10,239 –> 01:36:13,280
you on so quickly to its own conclusions. Your mind has a time to protest.

1544
01:36:13,280 –> 01:36:16,685
What? Only the family is people. I beg

1545
01:36:16,685 –> 01:36:20,285
pardon. My wife says books. Aren’t real. Thank God for

1546
01:36:20,285 –> 01:36:23,965
that. You can shut them. Say, hold on a moment. You play

1547
01:36:23,965 –> 01:36:27,725
God to it, but who has ever torn himself from the claw that encloses you

1548
01:36:27,725 –> 01:36:30,699
when you drop a seed in a TV par or grows you any shape of

1549
01:36:30,699 –> 01:36:34,540
wishes, it is an environment as real as the world it becomes and is

1550
01:36:34,540 –> 01:36:38,380
the truth. Books can be beaten down with reason, but with all my

1551
01:36:38,380 –> 01:36:41,980
knowledge and skepticism, I have never been able to argue with a 100 piece symphony

1552
01:36:41,980 –> 01:36:45,715
orchestra, full color, 3 dimensions, and being in and part of those incredible

1553
01:36:45,715 –> 01:36:49,395
parlors. As you see, my parlor is nothing but 4 plaster walls in

1554
01:36:49,395 –> 01:36:53,155
here. He held out 2 small rubber plugs for my years and I

1555
01:36:53,155 –> 01:36:56,830
ride the subway jets. That hems dentiferous. They

1556
01:36:56,830 –> 01:37:00,110
toil not neither do they spins in Montagai shut. Where do we go from here?

1557
01:37:00,110 –> 01:37:03,870
Would books help us? Only of the third necessary thing could be given to

1558
01:37:03,870 –> 01:37:07,230
us. Number 1, as I said, is quality of information. Number 2, leisure to digest

1559
01:37:07,230 –> 01:37:10,764
it. Number 3, the right to carry out the actions based on what we

1560
01:37:10,764 –> 01:37:14,445
learned from the interaction of the first two. And I hardly

1561
01:37:14,445 –> 01:37:18,284
think a very old man and a fireman turned sour could

1562
01:37:18,284 –> 01:37:21,264
do much this late

1563
01:37:22,125 –> 01:37:23,105
in the game.

1564
01:37:33,920 –> 01:37:37,375
Here at the end of the 4th turning in the United States of

1565
01:37:37,375 –> 01:37:40,594
America, the hour is indeed late,

1566
01:37:42,655 –> 01:37:46,275
or at least from my perspective, it’s late. John’s

1567
01:37:46,415 –> 01:37:50,100
mileage may vary. Your mileage

1568
01:37:50,400 –> 01:37:53,700
may vary. Faber,

1569
01:37:54,960 –> 01:37:58,560
and this is the leap that I made in my brain that

1570
01:37:58,560 –> 01:38:00,500
captivated John that I put in the notes.

1571
01:38:02,745 –> 01:38:06,585
Faber is Montag’s Morpheus, but he isn’t a

1572
01:38:06,585 –> 01:38:10,025
cool black dude. He’s not a cool black savior

1573
01:38:10,025 –> 01:38:13,804
character. And he’s flawed

1574
01:38:14,105 –> 01:38:16,844
as a hero because books make us complicated,

1575
01:38:18,290 –> 01:38:21,670
which is what the systems that captain Beatty represented

1576
01:38:21,730 –> 01:38:25,490
understood. They didn’t want complication. They wanted

1577
01:38:25,490 –> 01:38:29,190
flat wax. And by the way, wax is manipulable

1578
01:38:29,330 –> 01:38:32,215
when you heat it Structures.

1579
01:38:35,475 –> 01:38:39,235
The builders that were holding together civilization’s memory along

1580
01:38:39,235 –> 01:38:42,935
the train tracks outside the city also understood this. And eventually,

1581
01:38:43,795 –> 01:38:47,310
Montauk will run into them as well on the

1582
01:38:47,310 –> 01:38:50,930
escape from the rapacious. There’s that word again,

1583
01:38:51,230 –> 01:38:52,690
hordes in the city.

1584
01:38:54,590 –> 01:38:58,430
Faber at the end doesn’t have a happy ending. Matter of fact, Faber

1585
01:38:58,430 –> 01:39:01,954
has no ending, weirdly enough. Bradbury just

1586
01:39:01,954 –> 01:39:05,715
sort of abandons him in the middle of the well, not the middle,

1587
01:39:05,715 –> 01:39:08,675
sort of the back end of the 3rd act of the book. And it’s kind

1588
01:39:08,675 –> 01:39:12,355
of odd. I’ve never seen a writer do that. It’s sort of like the inverse

1589
01:39:12,355 –> 01:39:16,199
of Anton Chekhov’s gun. This idea that you, like, just leave

1590
01:39:16,199 –> 01:39:19,960
something there. I had completely forgotten about how the book wraps

1591
01:39:19,960 –> 01:39:23,639
up. Yeah. You know? So, like, I knew the premise. Right? You’re not allowed to

1592
01:39:23,639 –> 01:39:27,320
have books. Right? And, someone wakes up, but the

1593
01:39:27,320 –> 01:39:30,995
ending was very interesting. Right. Because, like all of a

1594
01:39:30,995 –> 01:39:34,515
sudden I realized that I don’t remember how this book ends. Right. You know, the

1595
01:39:34,515 –> 01:39:37,975
story. And I’m like, we’re so close to the end. Like,

1596
01:39:38,515 –> 01:39:42,114
is this just the wake up? Is there any lasting change? You know? And then

1597
01:39:42,114 –> 01:39:45,079
I was like, oh, now I’m very excited because I’d forgotten how to do it.

1598
01:39:45,079 –> 01:39:48,920
And you’re right. Like, there is like, there’s a lot of hope. Mhmm. Right?

1599
01:39:48,920 –> 01:39:52,119
That, you know, they’re gonna meet up in the future, but, like, you know, there’s

1600
01:39:52,119 –> 01:39:55,880
there’s also a lot of reason to assume that hope is not valid. Right. You

1601
01:39:55,880 –> 01:39:58,300
know? There’s there’s no denouement. There’s no

1602
01:40:02,255 –> 01:40:06,015
there’s no conclusion. There’s no catharsis at the end. It

1603
01:40:06,015 –> 01:40:09,455
feels it like as I was reading it, I was like, god. This just feels

1604
01:40:09,455 –> 01:40:13,215
kinda rushed at the end of it. And then, you know, thinking about

1605
01:40:13,215 –> 01:40:16,760
it is like we you

1606
01:40:16,760 –> 01:40:20,360
know, this is about change. This is about this is about the wake up. This

1607
01:40:20,360 –> 01:40:24,040
is about all of these things. Right? And if you’re going

1608
01:40:24,040 –> 01:40:27,880
through it, you have no idea what it what the what

1609
01:40:27,880 –> 01:40:31,020
the ultimate conclusion is gonna be like. You know what I’m saying? So

1610
01:40:31,705 –> 01:40:34,425
the and, initially, I was like, this feels rushed. I don’t like this. I don’t

1611
01:40:34,425 –> 01:40:36,985
like this. I want more details. I wanna know how everyone wraps up, and I

1612
01:40:36,985 –> 01:40:40,025
just wanna have clarity at the end of it. And then I kinda had to

1613
01:40:40,025 –> 01:40:43,830
slow down and, like, pause and realize, like, hey. It doesn’t

1614
01:40:43,830 –> 01:40:45,990
have to go it doesn’t have to end the way that I want it to

1615
01:40:45,990 –> 01:40:49,190
end for it to be a good story, which was, you know, a very interesting

1616
01:40:49,190 –> 01:40:52,150
part as I’m reading this book and wanting it to, like, wrap up my way,

1617
01:40:52,150 –> 01:40:54,950
and then it doesn’t wrap up my way, and I’m a little bit frustrated for

1618
01:40:54,950 –> 01:40:58,695
a couple of minutes. You know? Well, I think there’s one

1619
01:40:58,695 –> 01:41:02,395
possibility. I think Bradbury probably would have accepted

1620
01:41:02,455 –> 01:41:05,895
this. The possibility exists that

1621
01:41:05,895 –> 01:41:09,735
Faber was evaporated in the bombs No. I know. The

1622
01:41:09,735 –> 01:41:13,580
city. But, like like, that whole thing. And I don’t really feel like

1623
01:41:13,580 –> 01:41:17,260
they do a good job of really talking about how, like, this country’s

1624
01:41:17,260 –> 01:41:21,020
on the constant verge of war until, like, until he’s meeting

1625
01:41:21,020 –> 01:41:24,765
with favor until, like, we’re, like, at that midpoint. Right? Well, no. No.

1626
01:41:24,765 –> 01:41:27,665
No. The women no. No. No. No. The scene with the women in the parlor

1627
01:41:27,725 –> 01:41:31,485
when Montag goes nuts, and he starts yelling at them about their lives and

1628
01:41:31,485 –> 01:41:35,245
about their kids. Mhmm. And the one woman, she’s on her, what,

1629
01:41:35,245 –> 01:41:38,765
like, 3rd marriage or whatever. And she’s, like, joking about

1630
01:41:38,765 –> 01:41:42,320
how, you know, he’s going off to war because there’s a perpetual war, and

1631
01:41:42,320 –> 01:41:45,440
they’re not gonna get married or not they’re not gonna exchange names because he’s just

1632
01:41:45,440 –> 01:41:48,880
gonna get vaporized or something like that, basically. Oh, I

1633
01:41:49,280 –> 01:41:52,480
it it was so funny because during that exchange, I was just so focused on

1634
01:41:52,480 –> 01:41:56,225
the idea of, like, kids Mhmm. And, like, and,

1635
01:41:56,225 –> 01:41:59,825
like, the kid Oh, yeah. Inside of there of, like, why would you ever have

1636
01:41:59,825 –> 01:42:03,665
kids? Well, it’s just a cesarean. You know? Like, that to me was,

1637
01:42:03,665 –> 01:42:07,425
like, shocking and kind of, like, removed enough that that’s where all my

1638
01:42:07,425 –> 01:42:11,000
focus went. I didn’t even see that for the initial kind of,

1639
01:42:11,000 –> 01:42:14,840
like, ground laying of the war that then ties into the 3rd act

1640
01:42:14,840 –> 01:42:18,280
stuff. Mhmm. That’s very interesting, to

1641
01:42:18,280 –> 01:42:20,280
me. But this idea that

1642
01:42:22,295 –> 01:42:26,055
Well, and the girl at the beginning, Claire, who doesn’t make it.

1643
01:42:26,055 –> 01:42:29,735
Right. Yeah. Mhmm. And there’s also an intimation Maybe she

1644
01:42:29,735 –> 01:42:33,035
did. Maybe she did. There’s an intimation there

1645
01:42:33,095 –> 01:42:36,610
that warfare is going on.

1646
01:42:36,990 –> 01:42:40,830
Yeah. That’s fair. But but it’s it’s one of those things because Montag isn’t awake

1647
01:42:40,830 –> 01:42:44,670
yet. So he’s still walking through sort of this, oh,

1648
01:42:44,670 –> 01:42:47,922
I just put out the fires and then I go home and there’s the walls

1649
01:42:47,922 –> 01:42:51,616
and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Yeah. And it’s all and it’s

1650
01:42:51,901 –> 01:42:55,595
and, you know, it’s interesting how Bradbury steps him down into the into

1651
01:42:55,595 –> 01:42:59,290
the being awake piece, ironically enough, or maybe interestingly enough, with his wife

1652
01:42:59,290 –> 01:43:02,700
getting her stomach pumped from the sleeping pills that she OD’d on.

1653
01:43:02,940 –> 01:43:06,160
Yeah. And the and the people who show up to to to pump her stomach.

1654
01:43:06,780 –> 01:43:10,220
And I and, you know, you talk about the cesarean. I was I

1655
01:43:10,220 –> 01:43:14,060
was sort of taken out a little bit. And I’m it’s very

1656
01:43:14,060 –> 01:43:17,625
hard to take me aback. It it really is. But I was sort of

1657
01:43:17,625 –> 01:43:20,284
taken aback by the casualness with which

1658
01:43:21,385 –> 01:43:25,145
Same. Bradbury described them showing up and just sort of, oh, they’re just

1659
01:43:25,145 –> 01:43:28,505
gonna have a cigarette. It’s just another Well, I’m You

1660
01:43:28,505 –> 01:43:32,290
know? Like They ending in why. We’ll go to the next one. It’s fine.

1661
01:43:32,429 –> 01:43:35,949
And that casual that casualness with

1662
01:43:35,949 –> 01:43:37,810
human life Yeah.

1663
01:43:40,590 –> 01:43:44,175
I think it does such I think it does the opposite, honestly. Like like, a,

1664
01:43:44,175 –> 01:43:47,695
it shocked me how, like, early it wasn’t just how stark it was. Right? He

1665
01:43:47,695 –> 01:43:51,534
just walks home and finds this thing out. But to me, them coming along

1666
01:43:51,534 –> 01:43:55,135
and then being so nonchalant about it, to me, that really sets the stage for,

1667
01:43:55,135 –> 01:43:58,630
like, the environment that, like, this is so common. They’re

1668
01:43:58,790 –> 01:44:02,490
oh, yeah. Here’s another one. You know what I’m saying? Like Right. And,

1669
01:44:03,830 –> 01:44:07,510
you know, we go through versions of that. And, like like, not to that extreme,

1670
01:44:07,510 –> 01:44:11,110
but, you know, like Well, there are there are people who would assert that in

1671
01:44:11,110 –> 01:44:14,845
our even in our own time. I mean, Bradbury wrote

1672
01:44:14,845 –> 01:44:17,505
this book in the in the fifties sixties. Right? Mhmm.

1673
01:44:18,925 –> 01:44:22,605
But in our own time, there are

1674
01:44:22,605 –> 01:44:25,665
people who would assert that we are too casual with life.

1675
01:44:26,950 –> 01:44:30,790
By the way, cradle the grave. It didn’t matter what context

1676
01:44:30,790 –> 01:44:34,090
or in this matter where we’re talking about the death penalty or,

1677
01:44:34,950 –> 01:44:38,790
you know, the 3rd rail issue of abortion or whatever. Any

1678
01:44:38,870 –> 01:44:42,525
anything involving life, we’re way too

1679
01:44:42,525 –> 01:44:45,825
casual about. Anything involving the,

1680
01:44:48,205 –> 01:44:51,745
the transmutation of life

1681
01:44:51,885 –> 01:44:55,679
into something else. Right? There are people

1682
01:44:55,679 –> 01:44:59,440
who would assert. And I do think they have a valid point that we are

1683
01:44:59,440 –> 01:45:03,119
not and and it’s really they they use the term too casual. I

1684
01:45:03,119 –> 01:45:06,719
think what they’re looking for is we lack seriousness. We it lacks

1685
01:45:07,039 –> 01:45:10,745
our conversations lack. There’s a Hebrew word Fidelity?

1686
01:45:11,845 –> 01:45:15,605
There’s a Hebrew word, in the in the Bible called the

1687
01:45:15,685 –> 01:45:19,285
in the Old Testament, called kabod. Right? It’s used to

1688
01:45:19,285 –> 01:45:22,690
describe, the patriarch Abraham. Right? He had kabod.

1689
01:45:22,989 –> 01:45:26,750
And what that what we translate that into in English is gravitas. He

1690
01:45:26,750 –> 01:45:30,429
had weight. Right? And when a person like

1691
01:45:30,429 –> 01:45:33,969
that speaks, it doesn’t matter how much you know, you shut up and listen.

1692
01:45:34,110 –> 01:45:37,735
Agreed. Yeah. And we’ve all run into people like

1693
01:45:37,735 –> 01:45:41,415
that. And we, the, there are people who

1694
01:45:41,415 –> 01:45:45,094
would make the assertion that in the kinds of conversations we are having around

1695
01:45:45,094 –> 01:45:48,715
life and that we’ve had with increasing

1696
01:45:48,775 –> 01:45:52,560
intensity around life, those people with that

1697
01:45:52,560 –> 01:45:56,260
type of gravitas are not involved in the conversation. And so we are having

1698
01:45:56,320 –> 01:46:00,100
unserious casual conversations, which cheapens

1699
01:46:00,159 –> 01:46:04,000
life. And I think that I think there is a point

1700
01:46:04,000 –> 01:46:04,500
there.

1701
01:46:07,865 –> 01:46:11,545
And so I can see where, and even, even

1702
01:46:11,545 –> 01:46:14,985
with me seeing that intellectually, it still hit me like, oh, there’s no, this is

1703
01:46:14,985 –> 01:46:18,710
the emotion of it. Yeah. This is the emotion of these guys

1704
01:46:18,710 –> 01:46:21,190
just being like, oh, this woman may die. She may not. I don’t know. I

1705
01:46:21,190 –> 01:46:24,150
gotta go down the street. Let’s pack our car and go down the street. It

1706
01:46:24,150 –> 01:46:27,750
was so, like, cold. Yeah. And it was

1707
01:46:27,750 –> 01:46:31,474
so early, but I was like, this

1708
01:46:31,474 –> 01:46:34,114
is the world. This is the world that that they were in. And for me,

1709
01:46:34,114 –> 01:46:37,554
it was like a it was like a very interesting pacesetter. You know? Yes.

1710
01:46:38,034 –> 01:46:41,875
You know, that also starts to him to kinda think and, you know, outside the

1711
01:46:41,875 –> 01:46:45,570
box and everything. Okay. And comparing

1712
01:46:45,570 –> 01:46:48,850
him to Morpheus and the black savior piece, which I know that kinda struck you

1713
01:46:48,850 –> 01:46:51,970
a little bit. Why did that why did that you’re like, I’m like, I thought

1714
01:46:51,970 –> 01:46:55,190
of that that way. The question you said is, like, is Faber a good leader?

1715
01:46:55,250 –> 01:46:58,955
Yeah. Is he a favor? Is he a good leader? Yeah. And it’s so

1716
01:46:58,955 –> 01:47:02,015
funny because, like, as I was reading it, he’s so apologetic.

1717
01:47:02,555 –> 01:47:06,235
Right? I’m the I’m the I’m the coward. Right? I’m sending you to go do

1718
01:47:06,235 –> 01:47:09,195
these things, and I’m not doing them myself. On on one hand

1719
01:47:10,075 –> 01:47:13,120
and I didn’t realize this until this conversation, so thank you for this perspective.

1720
01:47:13,900 –> 01:47:17,040
It’s like I was like, god. Like, this guy is just a doormat.

1721
01:47:17,340 –> 01:47:21,100
Okay? But what if he’s just manipulating him from the

1722
01:47:21,100 –> 01:47:24,915
other side? Because, you know, you have you have

1723
01:47:24,915 –> 01:47:28,615
Faber on one side, you have, you know, BD in the other,

1724
01:47:28,675 –> 01:47:32,195
and he’s just there in the middle. Like, what if he is just, like, that

1725
01:47:32,195 –> 01:47:35,875
good of an of a manipulator and not really that much of a

1726
01:47:35,875 –> 01:47:39,710
coward? And I wasn’t thinking about that until until I saw that and and

1727
01:47:39,710 –> 01:47:42,670
we’re having this conversation because, like, I just thought he was just, like, this, like,

1728
01:47:42,670 –> 01:47:46,350
kinda this is gonna sound bad, but, like, a guy who’s too

1729
01:47:46,350 –> 01:47:50,110
nerdy, and he’s missed the opportunity to, like, to, like, speak up. And so now

1730
01:47:50,110 –> 01:47:53,945
he needs someone who’s got some brute strength amongst him or around him

1731
01:47:53,945 –> 01:47:56,925
to, like Oh, yeah. To, like, cause change. But

1732
01:47:57,625 –> 01:48:01,385
he’s so always with the

1733
01:48:01,545 –> 01:48:04,744
but, like, hey. You’re the real hero here on you know what I’m saying? And

1734
01:48:04,744 –> 01:48:08,239
it and, like, like, there is a realm to where, like, if you’re good at,

1735
01:48:08,239 –> 01:48:12,079
you know, motivational manipulation Mhmm. It’s

1736
01:48:12,079 –> 01:48:15,840
all there. Right? The nagging and the and the, oh,

1737
01:48:15,840 –> 01:48:19,405
well, you know, blah blah blah. But then he’s also the thing that I

1738
01:48:19,405 –> 01:48:22,525
really loved is when they’re talking about Beatty, and he’s like, maybe he’s one of

1739
01:48:22,525 –> 01:48:25,645
us, and we just don’t know it yet. And that blew my mind, man. I

1740
01:48:25,645 –> 01:48:29,345
was like, oh Right. Right. There was a there was a scene,

1741
01:48:29,405 –> 01:48:32,865
and I read about it, I think, in my research on the book.

1742
01:48:33,165 –> 01:48:36,950
But, Bradbury was going to put it in a scene where Beatty had like

1743
01:48:36,950 –> 01:48:40,230
books in his living room or something, but they were all like burned up books

1744
01:48:40,230 –> 01:48:44,010
on bookshelves. Oh, interesting. That he’d like charred

1745
01:48:44,070 –> 01:48:47,910
or whatever. And he decided not to put that in the, in

1746
01:48:47,910 –> 01:48:50,915
the book. And maybe maybe it was in an interview. He talked about it or

1747
01:48:50,915 –> 01:48:54,275
or maybe something. I I don’t know. Anyway, because he’s written several inter he wrote

1748
01:48:54,275 –> 01:48:58,115
several introductions to several different introductions to Fahrenheit 4 51. And I would

1749
01:48:58,115 –> 01:49:01,955
recommend if you’re gonna read this book, go back and read, the

1750
01:49:01,955 –> 01:49:05,080
edition that has at least a couple of his,

1751
01:49:05,800 –> 01:49:09,640
of his, introductions. Because, you know, it’s interesting how he

1752
01:49:09,640 –> 01:49:13,320
changed over the course of his life subsequent to the book and changed

1753
01:49:13,320 –> 01:49:16,300
his perspective for where the book landed. Right?

1754
01:49:17,880 –> 01:49:20,364
And I wanna revisit something that you said in the first part, which I didn’t

1755
01:49:20,364 –> 01:49:23,165
fully I don’t think I fully addressed you. You said, yes, my opinion about ban

1756
01:49:23,405 –> 01:49:27,005
banning books in libraries. Right? Well, I I

1757
01:49:27,005 –> 01:49:29,965
think I think the question is I think it’s very easy for people to be

1758
01:49:29,965 –> 01:49:33,630
like, oh, yeah. We shouldn’t ban books, but, like, my kid’s not reading this

1759
01:49:33,630 –> 01:49:37,430
stuff. Sure. You know what I’m saying? Which in summation is kind

1760
01:49:37,430 –> 01:49:40,590
of the same thing. Right? If you’re a parental figure and you’re holding your kids

1761
01:49:40,590 –> 01:49:44,190
apart from it, you’re, you know, you you don’t have a

1762
01:49:44,190 –> 01:49:47,135
police state to come in there and, like, force it and everything, but in all

1763
01:49:47,135 –> 01:49:50,655
all intents and purposes, you might as well be. Well, I think we

1764
01:49:51,935 –> 01:49:55,455
so I think there’s a bunch of different dynamics happening underneath there. First off, you’ve

1765
01:49:55,455 –> 01:49:59,060
got parents who are not for

1766
01:49:59,060 –> 01:50:02,820
whatever multifaceted multimotive reasons are not actually

1767
01:50:02,820 –> 01:50:05,860
paying attention to what’s going on in their kids’ heads, much less their kids’ lives.

1768
01:50:05,860 –> 01:50:09,460
They’re just, they’re just not, they’re not dialed in. I think something

1769
01:50:09,460 –> 01:50:13,145
like less than half, and it might be even

1770
01:50:13,145 –> 01:50:16,985
higher than that now, of all families don’t have at least one meal together

1771
01:50:16,985 –> 01:50:20,824
at night. Over what? Like, a week or a month?

1772
01:50:20,824 –> 01:50:24,470
Over, like, a week? Just just don’t have it. They just don’t

1773
01:50:24,470 –> 01:50:27,590
because they’re they’re and by the way, there are seasons in my life, I’ll be

1774
01:50:27,590 –> 01:50:31,110
perfectly transparent on this, like, I’m currently in a season where we are struggling to

1775
01:50:31,110 –> 01:50:34,550
have a meal together every night because, like, just

1776
01:50:34,550 –> 01:50:37,510
schedules and all this other kind of stuff. Right? Because we added one more thing

1777
01:50:37,510 –> 01:50:41,185
in and then everything went to help. You know, the whole entire schedule went off

1778
01:50:41,185 –> 01:50:44,945
went off the table. But it’s okay because it’s only for 8 weeks. It’s only

1779
01:50:44,945 –> 01:50:47,265
the one thing for 8 weeks and it’s done. Right? And then we’ll be back

1780
01:50:47,265 –> 01:50:51,105
to sort of some sense of, for us, normalcy. But I try to have

1781
01:50:51,105 –> 01:50:53,205
meals with my kids, like, every night of the week.

1782
01:50:55,080 –> 01:50:58,219
Like, how else am I gonna find out what’s going on with my kids? Right?

1783
01:50:59,159 –> 01:51:02,840
Now, are there other ways can I have other conversations? Sure. Okay. But that

1784
01:51:02,840 –> 01:51:06,679
idea of the traditional communal table that everybody gathers around and

1785
01:51:06,679 –> 01:51:10,415
we exchange ideas about our day without by the way, you’ll don’t get to bring

1786
01:51:10,415 –> 01:51:14,055
a cell phone to the table. We’re not bringing distractions. You’re actually gonna look at

1787
01:51:14,055 –> 01:51:17,495
another human being over a meal and, like, have a conversation with

1788
01:51:17,495 –> 01:51:21,095
them. The the vast majority of people are not doing that. So if a parent

1789
01:51:21,095 –> 01:51:23,255
is not doing that with it, I would assert that a parent is not doing

1790
01:51:23,255 –> 01:51:27,040
that with their child. On a regular or semi regular basis, you

1791
01:51:27,040 –> 01:51:30,239
actually probably don’t have a good clue of what’s going on in your kid’s head.

1792
01:51:30,239 –> 01:51:34,080
That’s number 1. And then 2, the second dynamic

1793
01:51:34,880 –> 01:51:37,760
and this was actually not a point made by me. It’s been a point made

1794
01:51:37,760 –> 01:51:39,465
by others. I’m just repeating it.

1795
01:51:42,585 –> 01:51:45,784
You complain about the cell phones, but you’re the one is the parent that paid

1796
01:51:45,784 –> 01:51:49,465
for the plan. You’re the one that put the iPhone 4 in that kid’s

1797
01:51:49,465 –> 01:51:53,239
hand. That 14 year old doesn’t have a job.

1798
01:51:53,239 –> 01:51:56,840
That 12 year old ain’t going out and paying the $200 a

1799
01:51:56,840 –> 01:52:00,680
month, cell phone bill. You are the one that put the crack

1800
01:52:00,680 –> 01:52:04,280
cocaine in the kid’s hand. Stop putting the

1801
01:52:04,280 –> 01:52:07,825
crack cocaine in the kid’s hand. Oh, well,

1802
01:52:07,825 –> 01:52:11,265
but. Oh, well, but. There’s all these oh, well, buts. I don’t wanna hear about

1803
01:52:11,265 –> 01:52:15,025
your oh, well, buts. I came from when my mama had to

1804
01:52:15,025 –> 01:52:18,225
pick me up this is directly out of my experience. My mama had to pick

1805
01:52:18,225 –> 01:52:22,059
me up from an extracurricular activity. If I had to be sitting by behind on

1806
01:52:22,059 –> 01:52:25,260
the sidewalk waiting for my mama to come pick me up, guess what? Because my

1807
01:52:25,260 –> 01:52:28,800
mama forgot, and there were times my mama forgot. Same. Yeah.

1808
01:52:29,099 –> 01:52:32,539
Like and I didn’t die. By the way by the way, did I inconvenience other

1809
01:52:32,539 –> 01:52:36,185
adults? Sure. Did they all look at her like she was inconveniencing

1810
01:52:36,324 –> 01:52:39,705
them? Absolutely. Did my mama care? Hell no.

1811
01:52:40,885 –> 01:52:44,105
She didn’t care. She’s like, I’m making money. What are you making?

1812
01:52:47,840 –> 01:52:51,520
Like, you eat my food. What? But be quiet. Get in the car. You’re saying

1813
01:52:51,520 –> 01:52:55,040
this? So so Absolutely. That’s the very that’s the very

1814
01:52:55,040 –> 01:52:58,880
specific perspective that I think so I just I gotta be very clear

1815
01:52:58,880 –> 01:53:02,295
on that. Right? I get it. Other people had other experiences, yada yada yada. Okay.

1816
01:53:02,295 –> 01:53:05,015
Yeah. We have 2 generations of hand on parenting, and now we’re doing this thing

1817
01:53:05,015 –> 01:53:08,475
called gentle parenting. I don’t know what the hell that is. My point is

1818
01:53:08,614 –> 01:53:11,515
that if you’re not

1819
01:53:12,535 –> 01:53:16,250
engaged with the kid and then you’re giving the

1820
01:53:16,250 –> 01:53:20,010
kid technology, that’s basically according to Jonathan height and he’s not

1821
01:53:20,010 –> 01:53:23,790
incorrect. Again, mainlining dopamine

1822
01:53:24,489 –> 01:53:27,850
into your kid’s system from a very early age when they can’t even handle it.

1823
01:53:27,850 –> 01:53:31,525
I mean, Snapchat is marketed to 8 year olds. Okay?

1824
01:53:32,705 –> 01:53:35,825
And I’ve been on that Remember you remember when it was like a porn platform?

1825
01:53:35,825 –> 01:53:39,345
It was just for, like, something like like and and it’s so funny because it’s

1826
01:53:39,345 –> 01:53:42,385
not that anymore, but because I was an adult when it came out. Like, I

1827
01:53:42,545 –> 01:53:46,250
like, there for a while when it was, like, becoming, like, a social media

1828
01:53:46,250 –> 01:53:49,370
platform and brands were on there and everything. And I was like, what is, like,

1829
01:53:49,370 –> 01:53:53,130
what is it? Like, I was so stuck in the old conjecture that, like, I

1830
01:53:53,130 –> 01:53:56,490
wasn’t able to kinda see that that they were trying to ship that and do

1831
01:53:56,490 –> 01:54:00,264
something different with it. You know? Right. Yeah. But, Yeah. But when you

1832
01:54:00,264 –> 01:54:04,025
have that, though, and that’s and but and then and then you’re going

1833
01:54:04,025 –> 01:54:07,145
to outsource your kids to and I don’t think you and I have ever talked

1834
01:54:07,145 –> 01:54:10,824
about this on the podcast, but, you know, I me and my

1835
01:54:10,824 –> 01:54:13,480
wife, we try to homeschool our kids. Not track. We homeschool our kids. And we’ve

1836
01:54:13,480 –> 01:54:17,000
been doing that for many, many years if work was cool. Like, we’ve got systems

1837
01:54:17,000 –> 01:54:20,840
in place, all that. Right? This is part of the reason why we have tons

1838
01:54:20,840 –> 01:54:24,139
of books in our house. We have biblio files. Right? But the point is

1839
01:54:24,679 –> 01:54:28,425
you’re outsourcing your kid for 8 hours a day to somebody

1840
01:54:28,425 –> 01:54:32,025
else who’s putting ideas in their heads. Yep. And you

1841
01:54:32,025 –> 01:54:35,545
only have 2 to 4 hours a day. And by the way, if you’re not

1842
01:54:35,545 –> 01:54:39,245
eating a meal with them, you have less time than that to counteract

1843
01:54:39,545 –> 01:54:42,525
those ideas or to just offer an alternative perspective.

1844
01:54:43,380 –> 01:54:45,960
Forget counteract, just offer an alternative perspective.

1845
01:54:47,060 –> 01:54:49,160
And by the way, you’re going to do that for 12 years.

1846
01:54:52,340 –> 01:54:56,180
Those 3 ingredients just by themselves in the

1847
01:54:56,180 –> 01:54:59,905
pot are enough. And this is where the banned books comes in now,

1848
01:55:00,125 –> 01:55:03,885
are enough for me to question you yelling and screaming about books in the

1849
01:55:03,885 –> 01:55:07,644
library. Work on those three things first,

1850
01:55:07,644 –> 01:55:11,130
and then you can worry about books in the library. Well Books in

1851
01:55:11,130 –> 01:55:14,890
library are are the the they’re the lab place. No. I agree

1852
01:55:14,890 –> 01:55:18,110
with you. Right? Like What are we doing? But but the perspective is,

1853
01:55:18,409 –> 01:55:22,250
well, I’m, you know, I’m paying money for these schools. It’s therefore they they

1854
01:55:22,250 –> 01:55:25,945
should And and but but no one shows up to school board meetings to talk

1855
01:55:25,945 –> 01:55:28,985
about the curriculum. Yeah. Please. No. You know what I’m saying? So it’s it’s very

1856
01:55:28,985 –> 01:55:32,364
much this we all want what we want, but, you know,

1857
01:55:33,625 –> 01:55:37,385
we’re not very good at the follow through to actually make it, like, actually happen.

1858
01:55:37,385 –> 01:55:41,199
Right? And, you know, the thing you said about, like, the

1859
01:55:41,199 –> 01:55:44,780
family dinner and everything, like, part of me is

1860
01:55:45,840 –> 01:55:49,600
wants to push back and be like, it

1861
01:55:49,600 –> 01:55:53,380
doesn’t need to be a dinner. Right? It needs to be intentional time.

1862
01:55:54,135 –> 01:55:57,975
Right? And I think I I think right? And and this is not

1863
01:55:57,975 –> 01:56:00,375
to kinda, like, judge you or anything else like that. No. No. No. It’s fine.

1864
01:56:00,375 –> 01:56:03,175
Go ahead. I think it’s I think it’s very easy to be like, okay. We’re

1865
01:56:03,175 –> 01:56:06,295
all coming together at dinner and blah blah blah, and then kids get busy, and

1866
01:56:06,295 –> 01:56:09,870
then we’re just mad about the sanctity of dinner not being what it once

1867
01:56:10,110 –> 01:56:13,790
was as opposed to, like, trying to take the action of, like, going and

1868
01:56:13,790 –> 01:56:17,310
having those conversations wherever you can have them because we prioritize them as

1869
01:56:17,310 –> 01:56:21,150
important. Mhmm. You know? So I am

1870
01:56:21,150 –> 01:56:24,934
also one of those people who says, and I want to

1871
01:56:24,934 –> 01:56:27,675
be intellectually and emotionally consistent on this.

1872
01:56:29,895 –> 01:56:33,655
You have to do what fits in the context of your life. That’s why

1873
01:56:33,655 –> 01:56:35,514
we have a republic. Right? Okay.

1874
01:56:37,410 –> 01:56:41,250
It’s not my job to, cast

1875
01:56:41,250 –> 01:56:44,850
aspersions, not judgment cast aspersions on whatever it is you may have to be

1876
01:56:44,850 –> 01:56:48,530
doing. It’s also not your job to feel guilt about whatever you may

1877
01:56:48,530 –> 01:56:50,850
happen to be doing or not be doing. It’s your job to kind of look

1878
01:56:50,850 –> 01:56:54,605
at the thing that you’re doing and okay. And then the other dynamic

1879
01:56:54,605 –> 01:56:58,145
is, and this is something that I think a lot of people who are parents

1880
01:56:58,205 –> 01:57:01,725
struggle with, particularly younger parents, struggle with

1881
01:57:01,725 –> 01:57:04,305
this. I’m not in a,

1882
01:57:06,270 –> 01:57:10,030
I have not raised my children and I am not personally parenting in

1883
01:57:10,030 –> 01:57:13,230
a war against other parents. I’m not in a competition, but frame it that way.

1884
01:57:13,230 –> 01:57:16,510
I’m not in a competition because of the parents, whatever you want to do, you

1885
01:57:16,510 –> 01:57:20,135
do. However, the

1886
01:57:20,135 –> 01:57:23,094
things that I do with my kids are going to be the things that I’m

1887
01:57:23,094 –> 01:57:26,395
going to advocate for. They’re sharing it as they’re

1888
01:57:26,775 –> 01:57:30,614
doing business. Right. And, and you

1889
01:57:30,614 –> 01:57:34,460
know, when we talk about things like books, you know, or we

1890
01:57:34,460 –> 01:57:38,300
talk about things like larger ideas you’re talking about and you’re talking

1891
01:57:38,300 –> 01:57:41,660
about intentional time. Sure. If you’re taking intentional time to talk about

1892
01:57:41,660 –> 01:57:45,340
stoicism with your kid. Cool. Let’s take that additional time. Let’s figure out where

1893
01:57:45,340 –> 01:57:49,020
that, what that, you know, focus time is and really be intentional about doing

1894
01:57:49,020 –> 01:57:52,745
that. I do think that we do have a

1895
01:57:52,745 –> 01:57:56,425
long. Not, I think I know we have a long history in

1896
01:57:56,425 –> 01:57:59,965
the west where we can trace certain no

1897
01:58:00,025 –> 01:58:03,320
guests. We could trace the transmission of culture to certain

1898
01:58:03,380 –> 01:58:07,140
traditional acts that occur first at a family level, and then are usually

1899
01:58:07,140 –> 01:58:10,600
scaled up to a nation state level. And by the way,

1900
01:58:10,740 –> 01:58:14,500
Jewish people I’ll use them as a perfect example, very strong

1901
01:58:14,500 –> 01:58:18,275
traditions around Friday, Sabbath and Friday

1902
01:58:18,275 –> 01:58:21,415
meals. Mhmm. And

1903
01:58:21,955 –> 01:58:25,735
that’s the thing that has transmuted that belief system,

1904
01:58:26,275 –> 01:58:30,055
you know, across destructions of temples and

1905
01:58:30,195 –> 01:58:33,150
damn near destructions of people for 5000

1906
01:58:35,050 –> 01:58:38,490
years. Traditions work. And I think one of the things we’re struggling with right now

1907
01:58:38,490 –> 01:58:42,170
in the west is with the atomization of life and

1908
01:58:42,170 –> 01:58:45,690
the allowing of these other systems to come in and atomize us and break us

1909
01:58:45,690 –> 01:58:49,344
down into our smallest bits, which are of course the individual and then even

1910
01:58:49,344 –> 01:58:53,025
smaller than that. It also atomizes away the

1911
01:58:53,025 –> 01:58:56,705
traditions. And it just kind of blows those

1912
01:58:56,705 –> 01:59:00,385
up. And human beings don’t do really well

1913
01:59:00,385 –> 01:59:04,200
in general without traditions and children in particular don’t do really well

1914
01:59:04,200 –> 01:59:07,720
without traditions. There has to be some sort of cultural transmission process

1915
01:59:07,720 –> 01:59:11,480
here. Now books are weighted away. Knowledge. For sure. Right.

1916
01:59:11,480 –> 01:59:14,120
And how are we gonna do that intentionally in in our family based on the

1917
01:59:14,120 –> 01:59:17,875
context of whatever it is we’re doing? So and that may sound like a giant

1918
01:59:17,875 –> 01:59:21,475
justification for what I just said, but it’s not. Well, no. I I I just

1919
01:59:21,475 –> 01:59:24,915
think it’s important to because I

1920
01:59:24,915 –> 01:59:28,755
could I could see fast forwarding. Right? And my daughter’s a little bit older,

1921
01:59:28,755 –> 01:59:32,440
and she’s got extra extracurricular stuff and then being pissed that she’s not

1922
01:59:32,440 –> 01:59:36,139
prioritizing dinner because this is our time. You know?

1923
01:59:36,360 –> 01:59:39,639
Whereas, like, I think the parents, you know, if you wanna be part of your

1924
01:59:39,639 –> 01:59:42,679
kids’ lives, you need to be intentional and insert yourself in the in the kids’

1925
01:59:42,679 –> 01:59:45,659
lives as opposed to expecting them to, you know,

1926
01:59:46,155 –> 01:59:49,835
effortlessly include you in everything. Sure. And I think you also have

1927
01:59:49,835 –> 01:59:51,275
to, understand that

1928
01:59:54,955 –> 01:59:58,315
and, again, this is probably how I was raised. The the

1929
01:59:58,315 –> 02:00:02,150
hierarchical structure, whatever because there was a structure. And where are you at

1930
02:00:02,150 –> 02:00:05,450
in the hierarchy? Right? And so, you

1931
02:00:05,990 –> 02:00:09,830
know, are you know, is the person that you’re raising these kids with, are

1932
02:00:09,830 –> 02:00:13,590
they on the same page that you are on? Oh, yeah. You That’s a

1933
02:00:13,590 –> 02:00:17,304
whole other That’s a whole other conversation. Right. You know,

1934
02:00:17,304 –> 02:00:21,065
so, you know, it’s, it’s, it’s about, it’s

1935
02:00:21,065 –> 02:00:24,745
about fighting the appropriate, not fighting. I shouldn’t say that

1936
02:00:24,745 –> 02:00:28,040
it’s about negotiating. That’s really what it is. You’ll appreciate this as a salesperson. It’s

1937
02:00:28,040 –> 02:00:31,880
about negotiating in the appropriate way, in the appropriate manner with the appropriate

1938
02:00:31,880 –> 02:00:35,720
person at the appropriate time and knowing where the negotiations go.

1939
02:00:35,720 –> 02:00:39,260
Right. And getting alignment as much as possible.

1940
02:00:39,655 –> 02:00:42,695
There going to be times of misalignment? Are there gonna be seasons of disruption and

1941
02:00:42,695 –> 02:00:46,295
of chaos for sure? But that can’t be the whole life of the child. That

1942
02:00:46,295 –> 02:00:49,815
can’t be the whole life of the family. Oh, I agree. 100% agree. Like You

1943
02:00:49,815 –> 02:00:50,315
know?

1944
02:00:54,580 –> 02:00:58,100
God. Like, there’s so many tangents I could take this conversation down from that from

1945
02:00:58,100 –> 02:01:01,940
that just Just from that one. Basic idea. Right? Because Yeah. You know, people also

1946
02:01:01,940 –> 02:01:05,460
have a habit of rubbing off on each other, right, in close proximity. Right? Like,

1947
02:01:05,460 –> 02:01:08,520
part of the reason that the that the military works is you’re all

1948
02:01:09,755 –> 02:01:13,434
in the same boat. Right? You’ve all made this this

1949
02:01:13,434 –> 02:01:16,954
decision, and you all have to deal with with the outcome. You

1950
02:01:16,954 –> 02:01:20,635
know? And you’re you’re learning how to become the

1951
02:01:20,635 –> 02:01:24,400
machine that the government thinks that they might need to call on. You know? And

1952
02:01:24,400 –> 02:01:27,539
like, that’s always there, but no one’s really talking about it and stuff.

1953
02:01:27,920 –> 02:01:31,679
But yeah, man. You know? And then,

1954
02:01:31,679 –> 02:01:35,119
you know, you get married, you start spending time with someone and, you know, just

1955
02:01:35,119 –> 02:01:38,535
like we were talking about before, well, this influencer, this person

1956
02:01:38,535 –> 02:01:42,055
knows knows a, b, and c just like I do. So

1957
02:01:42,055 –> 02:01:45,435
therefore, you know, d through z,

1958
02:01:46,295 –> 02:01:50,055
we’re probably as well. We’re probably on the same page. Right? We’re

1959
02:01:50,055 –> 02:01:53,890
probably fine. Except the challenge is, like, d and c,

1960
02:01:53,890 –> 02:01:57,730
you’re not on the same page and probably looking at that influencer

1961
02:01:57,730 –> 02:02:01,410
for advice about how you should lift your Exactly. Exactly. Right?

1962
02:02:01,410 –> 02:02:04,790
But a was solid. A was solid. Right? B’s

1963
02:02:04,975 –> 02:02:08,094
b’s maybe 80% of line, but then we get to c and it’s like it’s

1964
02:02:08,094 –> 02:02:11,775
like 25%. Well, Jordan Peterson says this thing, so I’m gonna go do it this

1965
02:02:11,775 –> 02:02:15,295
way. And it’s like it’s like, you know, you’ve you’ve you’ve missed the

1966
02:02:15,295 –> 02:02:18,755
opportunity to have your own critical conversations with yourself.

1967
02:02:19,055 –> 02:02:22,760
Bingo. And and those critical thinking skills come from.

1968
02:02:23,619 –> 02:02:27,460
Exactly. And, man, like, I love getting

1969
02:02:27,460 –> 02:02:31,300
to come and do these episodes with you because, like, I read these

1970
02:02:31,300 –> 02:02:35,035
books and I always know that after the conversation, I’m still mostly gonna feel

1971
02:02:35,035 –> 02:02:38,875
the way that I feel about it. But, like, because I I have deep trust

1972
02:02:38,875 –> 02:02:41,215
for you and I know that you’re a thoughtful person.

1973
02:02:42,635 –> 02:02:46,300
I have some new perspective that I didn’t have before. Right? And

1974
02:02:46,300 –> 02:02:50,060
that’s what I love so much about the second point we need

1975
02:02:50,060 –> 02:02:53,820
leisure. Right. If you’re running from book to book, to

1976
02:02:53,820 –> 02:02:57,580
book, to book, to book, to book, and you’re never sitting and thinking

1977
02:02:57,580 –> 02:03:00,000
like, what did I get from this?

1978
02:03:01,165 –> 02:03:05,005
You’re you’re you’re missing 9 tenths of the point. Right? And so it’s

1979
02:03:05,005 –> 02:03:08,445
funny when you see these online social media things of like, well, I read 52

1980
02:03:08,445 –> 02:03:11,885
books. How much are you synthesizing, bro? Right? And that’s always the

1981
02:03:11,885 –> 02:03:15,630
solution. Right? I read a lot. You know? I mean, I don’t read as

1982
02:03:15,630 –> 02:03:18,989
much as Melissa does. Melissa reads about 50 books a year, but it’s like, it’s

1983
02:03:18,989 –> 02:03:22,610
like, it’s, it’s her number one pastime is reading, you know,

1984
02:03:22,750 –> 02:03:26,590
but I, I probably read 15 to 20, sometimes 30, depending upon the

1985
02:03:26,590 –> 02:03:30,054
year. But I’m also I’m also, because of what I

1986
02:03:30,054 –> 02:03:33,895
do, like, able to, like, let’s go try this, and let’s go try this, and

1987
02:03:33,895 –> 02:03:37,255
let’s go try this. Right? And it’s funny because I met up with a friend

1988
02:03:37,255 –> 02:03:41,040
of mine that I know digitally. He’s an entrepreneur. We met an

1989
02:03:41,200 –> 02:03:44,880
entrepreneurial community. We’ve only been friends digitally. Right? But last year, he,

1990
02:03:44,880 –> 02:03:48,720
like, he sells to, like, airports and everything, like, $1,000,000,000 deals. Right?

1991
02:03:48,720 –> 02:03:52,560
Yeah. So he’s in town. We meet up last year as I’m

1992
02:03:52,560 –> 02:03:55,635
going through the process of buying the house and everything. And then he came back

1993
02:03:55,635 –> 02:03:57,875
in town this year. He had to follow-up with a client and everything. And so

1994
02:03:57,875 –> 02:04:01,715
we met up again, and we were talking again. And it was so funny

1995
02:04:01,715 –> 02:04:04,355
because he pauses, and he was like, dude, like, how long has it been since

1996
02:04:04,355 –> 02:04:06,675
since we saw each other? And I was like, oh, I did the math, actually.

1997
02:04:06,675 –> 02:04:09,155
You know, it’s been this long, you know, because that’s who I am. And he

1998
02:04:09,155 –> 02:04:11,990
was like, you are miles

1999
02:04:14,290 –> 02:04:17,350
away different than where you were a year ago.

2000
02:04:18,210 –> 02:04:21,270
And I kinda had this moment of, like, duh.

2001
02:04:22,705 –> 02:04:26,465
Like, why wouldn’t I be? Right? I’m on this path. I’m on I’m pushing

2002
02:04:26,465 –> 02:04:30,225
myself. I’m I’m challenging my ideas. Like, I’m I’m, like,

2003
02:04:30,225 –> 02:04:33,905
you know, helping people think about how they think. You know? Of course,

2004
02:04:33,905 –> 02:04:37,300
that’s gonna kinda wash over onto me. So but it was this, like, very weird

2005
02:04:37,300 –> 02:04:40,900
moment of realizing most people don’t change that much

2006
02:04:40,900 –> 02:04:44,520
over a decade. Oh, yeah. No. You know? Yeah.

2007
02:04:45,060 –> 02:04:48,820
So that that whole thing of, like, I’m looking for things to

2008
02:04:48,820 –> 02:04:52,195
implement. I’m looking for things to change and to try and to dole out and

2009
02:04:52,195 –> 02:04:55,235
to see how it works and everything else like this. And because my job is

2010
02:04:55,235 –> 02:04:58,595
what it is, I get the opportunity to be like, oh, well, that sounds like

2011
02:04:58,595 –> 02:05:01,955
an interesting anecdote. Let me go tell someone about it in relation to this other

2012
02:05:01,955 –> 02:05:04,915
thing and see how they deal with it, you know? And then when and then

2013
02:05:04,915 –> 02:05:08,710
when they show up later and they’re like, oh, that what? You know?

2014
02:05:08,710 –> 02:05:12,150
I told people I was rereading this book. They’re like, oh, what’s that book about?

2015
02:05:12,150 –> 02:05:14,630
I’ve never read it before. And I’m like, it’s it’s a it’s about a future

2016
02:05:14,630 –> 02:05:18,390
with no books, and then I can just leave it. Yep.

2017
02:05:18,390 –> 02:05:21,865
Right? And then and then they’ll, like, okay. How’s the book coming? You know? Like

2018
02:05:21,865 –> 02:05:25,465
like, oh, man. Pretty good. Right? Mhmm. So I get this

2019
02:05:25,465 –> 02:05:29,225
opportunity to, and this is this

2020
02:05:29,225 –> 02:05:31,465
is back to the true grit thing. You can have the map, but that’s not

2021
02:05:31,465 –> 02:05:35,250
the same thing as being in the territory. Right. Right? And, like,

2022
02:05:35,310 –> 02:05:38,850
I’m in the territory all the time with people that are dealing with

2023
02:05:39,230 –> 02:05:42,990
changes of their own perception around leadership and sales and

2024
02:05:42,990 –> 02:05:46,585
marketing and positioning and spin. And are we spinning for the right

2025
02:05:46,585 –> 02:05:50,105
reasons? Are we spinning negatively? Are we telling them just what what we think that

2026
02:05:50,105 –> 02:05:53,385
they wanna hear? Are these things actually connected to the things we wanna build? Like

2027
02:05:53,465 –> 02:05:57,065
and there’s there’s so much in this as

2028
02:05:58,160 –> 02:06:01,280
like, I’m I’m curious as to your perspective on this as someone who works with

2029
02:06:01,280 –> 02:06:04,960
individuals and helps kind of Yep. Rack them open, if you will. Because, like, I

2030
02:06:04,960 –> 02:06:08,800
think on some level, like, I’m trying to wake people

2031
02:06:08,800 –> 02:06:12,255
up. I’m trying to get them to to stop thinking about, yeah, you can just

2032
02:06:12,255 –> 02:06:14,975
walk in the room and push hard enough, and they’re gonna say yes. Because, like,

2033
02:06:14,975 –> 02:06:18,255
even if you can, let’s talk about what happens after that. They ghost you. Right.

2034
02:06:18,255 –> 02:06:22,015
They stall. They churn. All these things that are bad, but, like, we’re

2035
02:06:22,015 –> 02:06:24,655
all just happy that we, like, got our way, and it’s like, guys, like, think

2036
02:06:24,655 –> 02:06:28,469
about the connective tissue here. You know? Mhmm. So it it’s

2037
02:06:28,469 –> 02:06:32,010
very interesting as I’m going through, like,

2038
02:06:32,710 –> 02:06:36,469
I do get to take these ideas and and play with them and and try

2039
02:06:36,469 –> 02:06:39,349
to kinda get other people to think about them and stuff like that. Do you

2040
02:06:39,349 –> 02:06:43,185
do you see that in your work, or did that not really show

2041
02:06:43,185 –> 02:06:46,485
up for you as you were thinking about the book? Oh, yeah. I mean,

2042
02:06:47,345 –> 02:06:51,185
so one of the things

2043
02:06:51,185 –> 02:06:55,025
that’s very interesting to me is I was having a conversation with somebody the other

2044
02:06:55,025 –> 02:06:58,640
day. And I won’t obviously get into names or

2045
02:06:58,640 –> 02:07:02,480
relationships, but it was having a conversation with, and I was having a conversation

2046
02:07:02,480 –> 02:07:04,580
with someone the other day about how their,

2047
02:07:06,720 –> 02:07:10,240
one of their intimate relationships is in the process of being

2048
02:07:10,240 –> 02:07:13,505
redefined. Well, hopefully that’s neutral enough

2049
02:07:14,364 –> 02:07:17,665
and not redefined in a positive direction. Right. Okay.

2050
02:07:17,725 –> 02:07:21,344
Yeah. And the conversation was very intimate.

2051
02:07:21,565 –> 02:07:24,420
There were a lot of details in there that were dropped.

2052
02:07:26,580 –> 02:07:26,651
I was like, oh, I kinda didn’t know that. I didn’t know that before. I

2053
02:07:26,651 –> 02:07:29,219
didn’t know that before. I’ve known this person for a little while, but now we’ve

2054
02:07:29,219 –> 02:07:31,620
reached a certain level of trust where he can kind of, he can kind of

2055
02:07:31,620 –> 02:07:35,219
have this conversation with me. Okay, cool. And I

2056
02:07:35,219 –> 02:07:38,955
wound up. He didn’t really ask for my advice. He was just really just

2057
02:07:38,955 –> 02:07:42,415
looking to kind of just, like, document dump and then move on.

2058
02:07:43,755 –> 02:07:47,114
But there were things that were in the conversation that we were

2059
02:07:47,114 –> 02:07:50,574
having that I thought he was missing that were critical.

2060
02:07:52,200 –> 02:07:56,040
And I literally said, hold on. Like I gotta, I gotta

2061
02:07:56,040 –> 02:07:59,160
give you advice here, whether you want to hear it or not. Like I really

2062
02:07:59,160 –> 02:08:02,920
do. Cause you’re, you’re, you’re skipping like a rock over some of this

2063
02:08:02,920 –> 02:08:05,900
stuff and you’re missing the deeper thing here.

2064
02:08:06,360 –> 02:08:10,065
And I went back to a couple of books that I’ve been reading,

2065
02:08:10,065 –> 02:08:13,685
you know, over the course of, this year. Right.

2066
02:08:13,985 –> 02:08:17,505
And a couple of conversations where, not

2067
02:08:17,505 –> 02:08:21,345
just with you, but with other hosts that I’ve had, where we distilled out some,

2068
02:08:21,345 –> 02:08:24,650
some ideas that I thought would be helpful for him. And I kind of gave

2069
02:08:24,650 –> 02:08:28,190
those ideas to him. And then I tied that into

2070
02:08:28,730 –> 02:08:32,510
sort of my personal life experience around some of the areas that are similar,

2071
02:08:32,570 –> 02:08:34,670
similar to, to him. Right.

2072
02:08:35,995 –> 02:08:39,675
And in the book that I’m

2073
02:08:39,675 –> 02:08:43,135
writing right now, the one I’m mashing around with, I can’t get out of

2074
02:08:44,075 –> 02:08:47,835
the book is being driven by these

2075
02:08:47,835 –> 02:08:51,600
conversations. So these kinds of conversations I’m having with you are

2076
02:08:51,600 –> 02:08:55,440
driving the book, right? It’s not a book based on the podcast, but

2077
02:08:55,440 –> 02:08:58,239
it’s a book based on the conversations that I’ve been able and the critical thinking

2078
02:08:58,239 –> 02:09:01,920
I’ve been able to put behind. You know, coming up with these ideas and these

2079
02:09:01,920 –> 02:09:04,555
ways into these books. Like, one of the things that I do with these books

2080
02:09:04,555 –> 02:09:07,695
is I try to find a way in. Like, what’s the way in

2081
02:09:07,955 –> 02:09:11,515
here? Right? And so the way into true grit

2082
02:09:11,515 –> 02:09:15,275
was sort of thinking about what does a character

2083
02:09:15,275 –> 02:09:17,935
look like who is claiming moral authority,

2084
02:09:19,110 –> 02:09:22,790
and is just rigidly committed to that moral authority. And she’s

2085
02:09:22,790 –> 02:09:26,330
not gonna she ain’t gonna move off her rock. You know? Yeah.

2086
02:09:26,390 –> 02:09:29,610
Maddie Ross says at some point, and it might have been in the movie too,

2087
02:09:30,230 –> 02:09:31,930
nothing’s free by the grace of God.

2088
02:09:34,150 –> 02:09:37,485
You have to pay for everything in this world. And she was fine with paying

2089
02:09:37,485 –> 02:09:41,165
her price. Where do you run into someone like that? Like

2090
02:09:41,165 –> 02:09:44,525
ever in the world today now? Like, where do you run into somebody that’s like

2091
02:09:44,525 –> 02:09:48,310
that? Just that rigidly committed? Many people

2092
02:09:48,310 –> 02:09:50,949
that I run into are loosey goosey. I run to a lot of loosey goosey

2093
02:09:50,949 –> 02:09:54,550
people who are kinda flopping all over the place. Now, again, your

2094
02:09:54,550 –> 02:09:58,070
mileage will probably vary. Yeah. I

2095
02:09:58,310 –> 02:10:02,014
okay. This is one of my favorite topics. Right? Because in in

2096
02:10:02,014 –> 02:10:04,895
the Well and I wanna draw I wanna draw that in in comparison to a

2097
02:10:04,895 –> 02:10:08,494
guy like captain Beatty, who I run into a lot of

2098
02:10:08,494 –> 02:10:12,175
captain Beatty’s. Oh, yeah. A lot of those

2099
02:10:12,175 –> 02:10:15,540
folks. And those would drive me absolutely crazy, but go

2100
02:10:15,540 –> 02:10:19,060
ahead. I I I can’t deal with the captain

2101
02:10:19,060 –> 02:10:22,740
Beatty’s. Right? And so if I hear anything about, like, well, we’re just gonna get

2102
02:10:22,740 –> 02:10:25,140
rid of these people and get new people, and that’s gonna fix the problem. I’m

2103
02:10:25,140 –> 02:10:28,824
like, no. No. No. No. No. No. No. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

2104
02:10:30,105 –> 02:10:33,864
I’m forced I’m forced to turn see, the Maddie Rosses drive the captain babies

2105
02:10:33,864 –> 02:10:37,465
crazy. 100%. For sure. That that’s the

2106
02:10:37,465 –> 02:10:41,190
that’s the whole process of coin. That’s the that’s the Like like,

2107
02:10:41,190 –> 02:10:44,969
that’s the other greatness of the whole thing. Right? But in the kung fu school,

2108
02:10:45,670 –> 02:10:49,510
one night, you know, I was, like, I was lamenting that, like, people

2109
02:10:49,510 –> 02:10:53,030
don’t do kung fu. Right? But, really, I was wrapping it up in the idea

2110
02:10:53,030 –> 02:10:56,545
that people don’t have lives because they they just finish work, and they go home,

2111
02:10:56,545 –> 02:10:59,185
and they sit on the couch, and they drink beer, and they watch TV. Right?

2112
02:10:59,185 –> 02:11:02,785
And I’m over here, and I’m doing a thing. Right? And, like, I was

2113
02:11:02,785 –> 02:11:05,985
drinking too much of the Kool Aid at the time. Right? You kinda have to

2114
02:11:05,985 –> 02:11:08,865
in those environments or else, you know, you don’t get the good stuff, if you

2115
02:11:08,865 –> 02:11:12,660
will. Mhmm. And one of my friends, still friends with him, he

2116
02:11:12,660 –> 02:11:16,500
goes he goes, man, everyone has kung fu. But for most people, that kung fu

2117
02:11:16,500 –> 02:11:20,260
is watching TV. Right? There you go. And I know people and you know people

2118
02:11:20,260 –> 02:11:23,700
that watch UFC fights, and they can they can name off every one of those

2119
02:11:23,700 –> 02:11:27,454
moves. They know exactly what’s happening. Like, and you and I also both know that

2120
02:11:27,454 –> 02:11:30,974
that being able to name those names is not going to help them against an

2121
02:11:30,974 –> 02:11:34,735
8 year old. You know what I’m saying? So I think

2122
02:11:34,735 –> 02:11:38,574
I think what what has happened is we you do see those people.

2123
02:11:38,574 –> 02:11:42,150
Right? You see black belts in jujitsu. That takes a level

2124
02:11:42,150 –> 02:11:45,929
of, like, nah. Not going your way. Right.

2125
02:11:45,989 –> 02:11:49,670
You know? Yeah. Business ownership. Right? You know, I

2126
02:11:49,670 –> 02:11:53,350
can’t tell you this is gonna sound so bad. I can’t tell you how

2127
02:11:53,350 –> 02:11:57,114
many people can’t seem to figure out how to be productive for their

2128
02:11:57,114 –> 02:12:00,574
own intrinsic needs and to do it consistently enough that they can have a business.

2129
02:12:00,795 –> 02:12:04,155
Right? So they’re almost like, oh my god, I hope I can spin up this

2130
02:12:04,155 –> 02:12:07,755
business before I get bored. And it’s almost like they know about it, which is

2131
02:12:07,755 –> 02:12:11,530
very just interesting to me because I do think

2132
02:12:11,530 –> 02:12:14,810
it takes a little bit of, like, no. Screw you. Watch me go do this

2133
02:12:14,810 –> 02:12:18,410
thing to do any of these things. Yes. And I think that

2134
02:12:18,410 –> 02:12:21,770
that’s I think that’s Maddie Ross. It’s just not

2135
02:12:21,770 –> 02:12:25,545
as, what’s the word? It’s

2136
02:12:25,545 –> 02:12:28,765
not as it’s not as Concentrated, maybe?

2137
02:12:29,385 –> 02:12:33,065
It’s not as is trying to build an archetype. That’s the other thing 100%. For

2138
02:12:33,065 –> 02:12:36,845
sure. These authors are trying to build archetypes. Right? So there’s an archetype of Capturably.

2139
02:12:36,905 –> 02:12:40,369
There’s an archetype of Maddie Ross. Mhmm. There’s an

2140
02:12:40,369 –> 02:12:43,969
archetype of we read War and Peace, one of our more downloaded episodes this

2141
02:12:43,969 –> 02:12:47,810
year. Mhmm. Just the first part of it, just like the first introduction. And it

2142
02:12:47,810 –> 02:12:51,525
is a masterclass in how to do business networking. It’s a

2143
02:12:51,525 –> 02:12:54,665
masterclass in how to go to market, but it’s a Russian party.

2144
02:12:55,445 –> 02:12:57,925
I need to go back and read that. Yeah. I go back and read like

2145
02:12:57,925 –> 02:13:01,765
the first, like 5 chapters. It is a masterclass in how to

2146
02:13:01,765 –> 02:13:04,985
network. It’s a masterclass in how to run a networking

2147
02:13:05,445 –> 02:13:08,740
event. Right. And the way that Tolstoy describes

2148
02:13:09,200 –> 02:13:13,040
Anna Pavlovna going through and like making sure everybody’s talked

2149
02:13:13,040 –> 02:13:16,560
to and everybody’s got engaged with you, but it’s, but it’s old school,

2150
02:13:16,560 –> 02:13:20,395
aristocratic 19th century politeness. Yeah. That

2151
02:13:20,395 –> 02:13:24,235
we have just totally blown up and abandoned. We had a whole conversation about that

2152
02:13:24,235 –> 02:13:26,635
on our podcast to kind of the similar to the one we had of about

2153
02:13:26,635 –> 02:13:30,395
way of the samurai, but in a but in a Western, a more Western, a

2154
02:13:30,395 –> 02:13:34,179
more Western context. But mean, I like And that’s

2155
02:13:34,179 –> 02:13:37,539
the archetypes that that that these these authors are building or archetypes. I’m

2156
02:13:37,539 –> 02:13:41,300
sorry. So one of my big shifts around networking was around this idea. Like,

2157
02:13:41,300 –> 02:13:45,059
I I hated small talk. Right? And my coach was always like and

2158
02:13:45,059 –> 02:13:47,940
and I was going to a sales coach. That way I could be a brass

2159
02:13:47,940 –> 02:13:50,865
tacks type and not have the small talk. Right?

2160
02:13:51,725 –> 02:13:55,105
Completely holding it with the wrong intention. Right? And,

2161
02:13:56,205 –> 02:13:58,925
my coach was like, you know what? You don’t have to learn all this stuff

2162
02:13:58,925 –> 02:14:02,610
if you just play with people who were, like, good to play with.

2163
02:14:02,610 –> 02:14:05,570
Right? And he’s, like, even trying to put it in my vernacular as a poker

2164
02:14:05,570 –> 02:14:08,050
player so that way I can understand it. And I’m still like, what? You know?

2165
02:14:08,050 –> 02:14:11,330
And he’s like, don’t try to sell people that don’t want what you got, idiot.

2166
02:14:11,330 –> 02:14:14,450
You know? But I wasn’t clear enough to see any of that stuff at the

2167
02:14:14,450 –> 02:14:18,255
time. But I network a lot now.

2168
02:14:18,255 –> 02:14:21,875
Right? I’m on I’m on Lunch Club, which is an AI driven

2169
02:14:21,935 –> 02:14:25,715
matchmaking service for networking. I’ve had 300

2170
02:14:25,775 –> 02:14:28,035
meetings alone on that platform.

2171
02:14:29,250 –> 02:14:32,850
And the the trick, the trick, if you will,

2172
02:14:32,850 –> 02:14:36,210
the my goal is I’m trying to find your kung

2173
02:14:36,210 –> 02:14:39,970
fu. Right? And so people come on the thing, and I’m not like,

2174
02:14:39,970 –> 02:14:43,170
well, how’s your week going? What’s the most exciting tell me about a time when

2175
02:14:43,170 –> 02:14:46,605
you struggled in your work. I’m like, what do you do on the weekends? What

2176
02:14:46,605 –> 02:14:50,205
do you do when you’re not working? Right? And then and I’m going somewhere with

2177
02:14:50,205 –> 02:14:53,805
this because kung fu is a craft. Jujitsu is a

2178
02:14:53,805 –> 02:14:57,005
craft. Writing is a craft. Sales is also a craft. But if we don’t have

2179
02:14:57,005 –> 02:15:00,730
this conversation, there’s no way they’re gonna be able to see it as a craft

2180
02:15:00,730 –> 02:15:04,510
unless they come from the territory kind of situation.

2181
02:15:04,890 –> 02:15:08,510
Yeah. So what I have found is the craziest

2182
02:15:08,810 –> 02:15:12,250
depths of, like, community and passion and

2183
02:15:12,250 –> 02:15:15,955
drive. Like, I talked to a guy who had 7 Cantina

2184
02:15:16,094 –> 02:15:19,775
Racer motorcycles inside of his garage because, like, that is his kung

2185
02:15:19,775 –> 02:15:23,614
fu, that is his jam, and he spent all of his all of his all

2186
02:15:23,614 –> 02:15:27,455
of his improvement time, his development time, his meditative time, his kaizen time, if

2187
02:15:27,455 –> 02:15:31,140
you will, on that. And I’ve met more and more people

2188
02:15:31,140 –> 02:15:34,980
that have odd, odd hobbies. Right? And I’m

2189
02:15:34,980 –> 02:15:38,340
saying this as someone who often gets looked at for having the weirdest hobbies on

2190
02:15:38,340 –> 02:15:42,180
the planet. Right? Like martial arts and poker and these sayings, I get

2191
02:15:42,180 –> 02:15:46,014
it. But it’s only weird because you don’t do it. Right.

2192
02:15:46,014 –> 02:15:49,614
Right? And so I think I think that

2193
02:15:49,614 –> 02:15:52,755
people have these drives to where they can be

2194
02:15:53,695 –> 02:15:57,440
that driven and that oriented and stuff. I just don’t think that

2195
02:15:57,440 –> 02:16:01,280
people see it for what it is. Right? People are scared to turn

2196
02:16:01,280 –> 02:16:04,820
their hobby into their livelihood for all the reasons that make sense.

2197
02:16:04,880 –> 02:16:08,640
Right? There’s lots of people like, I I had to have this

2198
02:16:08,640 –> 02:16:12,425
conversation with someone else of, god, do you really wanna carry

2199
02:16:12,425 –> 02:16:16,045
that much weight for someone else’s thing? Because

2200
02:16:16,264 –> 02:16:19,545
you might just be someone who’s better off working on your own, so that way

2201
02:16:19,545 –> 02:16:23,145
you can have the wider lane and stuff. And, you know, we all need

2202
02:16:23,145 –> 02:16:26,690
different things, but I think there’s drive for everybody. You just have to

2203
02:16:26,690 –> 02:16:30,370
kinda, like, look for where you’re already driven and pull the elements away from,

2204
02:16:30,370 –> 02:16:33,650
like, what makes you drive there and instill those in this other thing, and then

2205
02:16:33,650 –> 02:16:36,530
it’s easier to drive. Well, and I think

2206
02:16:37,445 –> 02:16:40,726
And we gotta we gotta wrap up. We’re we’re way off on this. But, hey,

2207
02:16:40,726 –> 02:16:43,924
surprise, guys. If you listen to the other ones, you knew this was gonna happen.

2208
02:16:43,924 –> 02:16:47,226
Right? Congratulations. Everybody drink. Take your shot.

2209
02:16:48,726 –> 02:16:52,485
Well well, one of the this well, that actually it actually ties into where we’re

2210
02:16:52,485 –> 02:16:54,799
gonna gonna go towards at the end here.

2211
02:16:58,459 –> 02:17:01,820
So one of the things that that kind of that I’m sort of starting to

2212
02:17:01,820 –> 02:17:04,620
noodle with another idea of sort sort of starting to do with I’ll do it

2213
02:17:04,620 –> 02:17:07,979
through the science fiction books because we’re gonna read dune here. Dune’s coming

2214
02:17:07,979 –> 02:17:11,334
up. I’m finally on the back end of Dune.

2215
02:17:11,636 –> 02:17:15,476
Well, I found a person who’s really passionate about Dune, like really passionate

2216
02:17:15,476 –> 02:17:18,936
about Dune. I wish it was me because, like,

2217
02:17:19,636 –> 02:17:23,155
my wife is, like, a Dune fanatic. And I’m just like talk to

2218
02:17:23,155 –> 02:17:26,940
her. You should have heard her. Like like, when

2219
02:17:26,940 –> 02:17:30,300
I finally read it because I read it late. I didn’t read it, kid. Right?

2220
02:17:30,300 –> 02:17:33,020
And so then reading it late, I was like, oh, this is the same messiah

2221
02:17:33,020 –> 02:17:36,254
story that I’ve just seen over and over and over. And she’s like, no. It’s

2222
02:17:36,655 –> 02:17:39,314
the messiah story. And I’m like, no. It’s not.

2223
02:17:40,735 –> 02:17:41,314
No. But,

2224
02:17:44,415 –> 02:17:48,174
like, that idea, right, talking about writing and

2225
02:17:48,174 –> 02:17:51,739
everything. And I I got kinda got stuck on my book, so I dug into,

2226
02:17:52,059 –> 02:17:55,898
Brandon Sanderson’s lectures on creative writing.

2227
02:17:55,898 –> 02:17:59,100
Right? Mhmm. A little stuff. And the thing that he says in there that blew

2228
02:17:59,100 –> 02:18:01,659
my mind is that it’s always a cliche until you do it so well that

2229
02:18:01,659 –> 02:18:05,434
people forget that it’s a cliche. Right. Oh, that’s like some

2230
02:18:05,434 –> 02:18:08,954
Robert McKee level stuff right there. Man, it I was like,

2231
02:18:08,954 –> 02:18:12,635
oh, I’m so glad I’m watching these free YouTube videos. Like, well, you know, like,

2232
02:18:12,635 –> 02:18:15,693
I could be watching cat memes, but this is inherently more specific.

2233
02:18:17,240 –> 02:18:21,080
This is better. A bit. But I think I think when

2234
02:18:21,080 –> 02:18:24,780
we the idea in science fiction

2235
02:18:25,080 –> 02:18:28,840
is that tomorrow well, no. I’ve been playing

2236
02:18:28,840 –> 02:18:32,564
with a couple ideas in my shorts episodes. First off

2237
02:18:32,564 –> 02:18:36,404
that most science fiction, particularly dystopian science fiction, even utopian

2238
02:18:36,404 –> 02:18:39,604
science fiction, but let’s talk about the dystopias because we always like those better. Oh

2239
02:18:39,604 –> 02:18:43,305
yeah. Dystopian science fiction is a reflection of whoever

2240
02:18:43,523 –> 02:18:47,250
the author is, their current anxieties or whatever moment they’re writing it. A 100%.

2241
02:18:47,629 –> 02:18:50,030
And a buddy of mine actually told me that years ago, and I was like,

2242
02:18:50,189 –> 02:18:52,910
you’re full of crap. No. It actually turns out he was correct. I was wrong.

2243
02:18:52,910 –> 02:18:55,490
He was right. Okay. He’ll be he’ll be happy to hear this.

2244
02:18:57,709 –> 02:19:00,209
We have that kind of relationship. He’ll be happy to hear this.

2245
02:19:01,665 –> 02:19:04,725
But the layer that’s on top of which is why, by the way,

2246
02:19:05,344 –> 02:19:08,943
Star Trek can never really fully be replicated, and I’ll just

2247
02:19:09,023 –> 02:19:12,225
I I don’t believe it fully can be. I think the Paramount will always continue

2248
02:19:12,225 –> 02:19:16,050
to screw that property up for a very specific reason. And the specific

2249
02:19:16,050 –> 02:19:19,730
reason is that Gene Roddenberry created something that went

2250
02:19:19,730 –> 02:19:23,570
against the anxieties of his of his era, and

2251
02:19:23,570 –> 02:19:26,931
he went into positive direction. And it’s really hard to do a

2252
02:19:26,931 –> 02:19:30,695
positive. It’s easier to do a negative. That’s why you have so many dystopians or

2253
02:19:30,695 –> 02:19:34,295
dystopias versus utopias. Anyway And, like, it’s perfect

2254
02:19:34,295 –> 02:19:37,815
except this one big, huge clearing hole. You know what I’m saying? Because it’s Exactly.

2255
02:19:37,815 –> 02:19:41,035
Yeah. Yeah. We’re all just jaded. All just jaded. Exactly.

2256
02:19:41,334 –> 02:19:44,330
Yep. But when you look

2257
02:19:45,430 –> 02:19:47,750
oh, I got that. What oh, I heard you.

2258
02:19:51,590 –> 02:19:54,150
One of the things that’s interesting to me, and I I think about it in

2259
02:19:54,150 –> 02:19:56,470
the context I mean, you have kids. I have kids. I think about it in

2260
02:19:56,470 –> 02:20:00,115
the context of our children is what do we owe?

2261
02:20:00,655 –> 02:20:03,875
What are the people living now? Oh, the people that are yet to be born.

2262
02:20:04,176 –> 02:20:07,615
What do we owe? Because there will be people tomorrow. This is like, and maybe

2263
02:20:07,615 –> 02:20:10,995
it’s a thing where I’m starting to really comprehend my own mortality now,

2264
02:20:11,455 –> 02:20:15,290
in my mid forties. Mhmm. But there will be a time when Haysan Sorrells

2265
02:20:16,550 –> 02:20:20,390
and John Hill and all of the other hosts that I have cohosts that

2266
02:20:20,390 –> 02:20:23,690
I’ve had on my show, our voices will no longer be in the world.

2267
02:20:24,710 –> 02:20:28,385
They just they just won’t be there anymore. And yes, the internet,

2268
02:20:31,165 –> 02:20:34,125
the riff off of Ronald Reagan a little bit, the internet might be like a

2269
02:20:34,125 –> 02:20:36,705
government program. It might be the closest thing that we have to immortality,

2270
02:20:42,699 –> 02:20:46,479
which, you know, I don’t know that I want

2271
02:20:46,699 –> 02:20:50,380
my voice and I know the AI has come along. I don’t know

2272
02:20:50,380 –> 02:20:54,125
that I want my voice resurrected with my old. You

2273
02:20:54,125 –> 02:20:57,645
know, podcast episodes so that people can hear. I don’t know that I want

2274
02:20:57,645 –> 02:21:01,324
that. I’m kinda I’m sort of struggling I’m sort of

2275
02:21:01,324 –> 02:21:05,005
struggling with the idea of that right now. But the

2276
02:21:05,005 –> 02:21:07,505
concept even deeper than that is,

2277
02:21:08,659 –> 02:21:12,020
if I just put out Pablum, then Pablum is gonna influence the

2278
02:21:12,020 –> 02:21:15,859
future. Yes. So there’s not real wisdom there. Right? So if

2279
02:21:15,859 –> 02:21:19,619
I put out wisdom, then wisdom will influence the future. Right? So what

2280
02:21:19,619 –> 02:21:22,520
do I owe people who I will not

2281
02:21:23,145 –> 02:21:26,825
meet? Because at at best, if I live to be a 100 years

2282
02:21:26,825 –> 02:21:30,025
old, which by the way, I consider middle age to be 50, middle age meaning

2283
02:21:30,025 –> 02:21:33,705
the middle of between your porn and your die. So I like, I mean, I

2284
02:21:33,705 –> 02:21:37,489
don’t I don’t plan on dying at, like, 90. I’m sure you’re looking for

2285
02:21:37,899 –> 02:21:41,100
happen. It’s like they might yeah. I I have, like, 10th century. Now, of course,

2286
02:21:41,100 –> 02:21:44,779
especially plants with mice and men, I’m not in charge of that. Okay. I am

2287
02:21:44,779 –> 02:21:48,619
I am I have a I have a death list of things that I

2288
02:21:48,619 –> 02:21:52,445
must do, and that is set to complete by the

2289
02:21:52,445 –> 02:21:56,125
time that I’m 75 because, you know, I’m

2290
02:21:56,125 –> 02:21:59,825
not, I’m not pushing everything off to the right. And

2291
02:22:00,045 –> 02:22:03,631
I think that that’s where people start to get sideways with this stuff, but I

2292
02:22:03,631 –> 02:22:07,091
have the bucket list that will be done by this time, but I am hoping

2293
02:22:07,230 –> 02:22:11,070
to hit triple digits. Okay. So so it’s a it’s a it’s a very interesting

2294
02:22:11,070 –> 02:22:14,670
kind of duality, I think. But the

2295
02:22:14,670 –> 02:22:17,891
relationships that we have are the things that that go to the future.

2296
02:22:18,835 –> 02:22:22,355
And even that they only go maybe 2, 3 generations down. And then our names

2297
02:22:22,355 –> 02:22:25,395
sort of fall out of like, how often do you think about your great, great,

2298
02:22:25,395 –> 02:22:29,155
your great grandfather or your great, great grandfather, right? Like not a

2299
02:22:29,155 –> 02:22:32,850
lot, you know? And so, and eventually, at a

2300
02:22:32,850 –> 02:22:36,449
certain point, the name of Hazon or the name of John is

2301
02:22:36,449 –> 02:22:40,290
just we’re done. Like, we’re out of the right? But the things that

2302
02:22:40,290 –> 02:22:44,069
we leave behind, the things that are permanent, the things that are important

2303
02:22:47,215 –> 02:22:49,715
are the things that we owe the future. And

2304
02:22:50,975 –> 02:22:54,515
I don’t think we can experience apathy in the face of that,

2305
02:22:54,814 –> 02:22:58,495
but I also don’t think that frenetic action is is is the way

2306
02:22:58,495 –> 02:23:02,140
for it either. I agree. And so these

2307
02:23:02,140 –> 02:23:05,520
books, these science fiction books create a template where

2308
02:23:06,300 –> 02:23:09,900
unlike maybe a tragedy like king

2309
02:23:09,900 –> 02:23:13,680
Lear, right. Or a epic tale,

2310
02:23:14,540 –> 02:23:18,025
like, you know, war and peace

2311
02:23:19,205 –> 02:23:23,045
or a set of poems. Like, we covered the the Shakespeare sonnets love poems. We

2312
02:23:23,045 –> 02:23:26,726
just did that. Right? Or Lolita. That was a tough

2313
02:23:26,726 –> 02:23:30,471
book. Oh, yeah. Nabokov. That was hard. And by the way,

2314
02:23:30,471 –> 02:23:33,690
I was not the one that suggested it. It was my female cohost.

2315
02:23:33,990 –> 02:23:37,830
So I would not have I would not have touched it, but she suggested it.

2316
02:23:37,830 –> 02:23:40,471
And we we we went through it. You’re gonna go you’re gonna wanna go listen

2317
02:23:40,471 –> 02:23:44,175
to that episode. Yeah. That’d be great. Yeah. It

2318
02:23:44,476 –> 02:23:47,835
was it was a hard read. But what do we owe the

2319
02:23:47,835 –> 02:23:51,675
future? Right? What do we owe people that we have not even

2320
02:23:51,675 –> 02:23:55,295
met yet? And science fiction plays with that.

2321
02:23:55,430 –> 02:23:59,029
Science fiction plays with the ideas of what happens in the far flung future, what

2322
02:23:59,029 –> 02:24:02,869
happens with people 50, you know, a 100 years from now

2323
02:24:02,869 –> 02:24:06,170
who we’ll never meet. Isaac Asimov talks about this

2324
02:24:06,630 –> 02:24:10,426
or really, this is the underpinning of I, Robot. This is also the underpinning

2325
02:24:10,426 –> 02:24:14,186
of Ray Bradbury’s The Martian Chronicles, weirdly enough. This

2326
02:24:14,186 –> 02:24:18,025
is the underpinning of, do androids dream of, you know,

2327
02:24:18,025 –> 02:24:21,466
electric sheep. This is the underpinning of Heinlein’s

2328
02:24:21,545 –> 02:24:25,370
almost all of Heinlein’s work. In a 100 years, what

2329
02:24:25,370 –> 02:24:29,130
will we owe people because of the decisions we’ve made now? And

2330
02:24:29,130 –> 02:24:32,971
that is something that I’m sitting with right now because I don’t know what

2331
02:24:32,971 –> 02:24:34,351
the answer to that is.

2332
02:24:36,766 –> 02:24:40,065
I do know that the container, for me anyway,

2333
02:24:40,525 –> 02:24:44,365
for my mileage, the container of the republic is the thing

2334
02:24:44,365 –> 02:24:47,485
that I’d like to see last another 100 years, but I’m not in charge of

2335
02:24:47,485 –> 02:24:51,250
that completely. I can do my own little contribution to that.

2336
02:24:51,470 –> 02:24:55,150
But, fundamentally, it’s gonna take 300,000,000 people to, like, agree and

2337
02:24:55,150 –> 02:24:58,930
walk in the same direction and Yeah. Look at that. Do that. Right.

2338
02:24:59,150 –> 02:25:02,205
Oh, well, I think I think if you get more than 50%, we’re gonna walk

2339
02:25:02,205 –> 02:25:05,005
in a particular direction. Like, that’s I think that’s just sort of how it goes.

2340
02:25:05,244 –> 02:25:07,904
And everybody else then just gets dragged along in the wake of it.

2341
02:25:09,244 –> 02:25:12,864
But beyond that, I will be honest.

2342
02:25:13,165 –> 02:25:16,685
I don’t know. I don’t have a

2343
02:25:16,685 –> 02:25:20,181
clue. And I don’t have a clue

2344
02:25:20,181 –> 02:25:24,020
because I’m not blown away by gee

2345
02:25:24,020 –> 02:25:27,780
whiz technology anymore. I’m not blown away by the next

2346
02:25:27,780 –> 02:25:31,386
technological revolution anymore. I’ve been through 4

2347
02:25:31,386 –> 02:25:35,145
technological revolutions. You have too. We’ve been through 4 technological revolutions. I

2348
02:25:35,145 –> 02:25:38,905
mean, remember when blockchain was gonna change everything? Mhmm. Mhmm. Do you

2349
02:25:38,905 –> 02:25:42,601
remember that? Yeah. Okay. Right. And now we’re onto, like, AI that has

2350
02:25:42,601 –> 02:25:46,200
run out of quality to to run out of quality

2351
02:25:46,200 –> 02:25:49,820
content to scrape off the top of the Internet. And now

2352
02:25:50,120 –> 02:25:53,561
the AI researchers, the wizards are smart, wanna use AI

2353
02:25:53,561 –> 02:25:55,660
content created by other AIs.

2354
02:25:57,545 –> 02:26:01,064
What are we doing? Agreed. Right. So I’ve, I’ve

2355
02:26:01,064 –> 02:26:04,604
already had, and maybe it’s my Jada gen X idea,

2356
02:26:05,225 –> 02:26:09,060
but I’m, I’ve been oversold the revolution and I’ve been through 4

2357
02:26:09,060 –> 02:26:11,859
of them already. Mhmm. Go ahead. Hit me up with the 5th one, maybe a

2358
02:26:11,859 –> 02:26:15,460
6th one. It’s fine. There’s things that are still gonna be

2359
02:26:15,460 –> 02:26:19,140
permanent in that. Right? Yep. But, again, what do

2360
02:26:19,140 –> 02:26:22,899
we owe the future? What do I owe those people ahead of us? And I

2361
02:26:22,899 –> 02:26:26,654
think Bradbury would say, we owe them books.

2362
02:26:27,435 –> 02:26:31,035
I think he would say that we owe we owe

2363
02:26:31,035 –> 02:26:34,715
them ideas. That’s why favor speech is important. We

2364
02:26:34,715 –> 02:26:38,520
owe them those three things. We owe them quality, leisure, time, and then we

2365
02:26:38,520 –> 02:26:41,700
owe them the pores of the ideas that the books have.

2366
02:26:42,320 –> 02:26:45,840
And then we just sort of admit that we have no control over them, and

2367
02:26:45,840 –> 02:26:49,460
we just let them go make the decisions that they’re gonna make,

2368
02:26:51,705 –> 02:26:53,245
whatever those decisions are.

2369
02:26:56,825 –> 02:26:59,945
But and I don’t know if that’s the whole answer. I think maybe it might

2370
02:26:59,945 –> 02:27:03,545
be a part of the answer. I think it’s so funny because we were both

2371
02:27:03,545 –> 02:27:07,111
talking about being stuck in our writing a little bit before

2372
02:27:07,111 –> 02:27:10,827
we turned on the recording, you know, just kinda limiting. And,

2373
02:27:10,827 –> 02:27:14,544
you know, I wanna do a really good job. Right? Like,

2374
02:27:14,544 –> 02:27:18,260
I’m trying to write, like, a quality of dialogue and content

2375
02:27:18,260 –> 02:27:21,525
that’s supposed to reflect that mentor mentee relationship.

2376
02:27:21,665 –> 02:27:24,805
And, like, when you’re in that kind of flow state of conversation

2377
02:27:25,585 –> 02:27:29,425
and there’s trust, but you’re being pushed, you’re you’re having perspective shifts right

2378
02:27:29,425 –> 02:27:33,265
there in front of another human being, I think that that is dope

2379
02:27:33,265 –> 02:27:36,770
and rad. And I’m putting myself under immense pressure to do this and do a

2380
02:27:36,770 –> 02:27:40,290
good job of it. And then I’m also also trying to hold, no one’s

2381
02:27:40,290 –> 02:27:43,910
gonna care at all, man. And,

2382
02:27:44,050 –> 02:27:47,729
like, not even 25 years from now, like, no one might even

2383
02:27:47,729 –> 02:27:51,306
care, like, the day after I put it out. You know what I’m saying? And,

2384
02:27:51,306 –> 02:27:54,985
like, then do I still wanna do it? Do I

2385
02:27:54,985 –> 02:27:58,686
still think it’s important if I if I if I pull that much

2386
02:27:59,226 –> 02:28:02,840
zoom out in, like and I think that

2387
02:28:02,840 –> 02:28:06,440
that’s where it meets the road, like like like for what for what is the

2388
02:28:06,440 –> 02:28:10,280
purpose. Right? And I liked what you said about, you know, you don’t

2389
02:28:10,280 –> 02:28:13,480
want to be reanimated later so that way everyone can, like, make fun of you

2390
02:28:13,480 –> 02:28:17,180
because the ideas will have shifted because that’s that’s, like, how we do. But

2391
02:28:17,385 –> 02:28:21,145
I was reading an article and it had one of the Beastie Boys on there

2392
02:28:21,145 –> 02:28:24,984
and he was talking about how, like, no one who’s 14, 15,

2393
02:28:24,984 –> 02:28:28,825
16 should be listening to the Beastie Boys because, like, it’s not for

2394
02:28:28,825 –> 02:28:32,380
them. You know what I’m saying? That’s true. He’s he’s probably right.

2395
02:28:32,680 –> 02:28:36,040
Listening to brand new punk rock that’s, like, let’s that’s causing

2396
02:28:36,040 –> 02:28:39,659
awareness and getting political about the things that are important now.

2397
02:28:39,960 –> 02:28:43,755
And I just really appreciated his, like, I’m really glad that

2398
02:28:43,755 –> 02:28:47,455
we’ve gotten to do this cool stuff, but, like, I’m also very aware that, like,

2399
02:28:47,515 –> 02:28:50,574
we’re, like, aging on the shelf. You know?

2400
02:28:52,074 –> 02:28:55,614
So I think I think where people go wrong is the is the

2401
02:28:57,200 –> 02:29:00,260
they want to make it too much about like their idea.

2402
02:29:00,720 –> 02:29:04,000
Yeah. Right. And I I’ve seen this in books. I know you’ve seen this in

2403
02:29:04,000 –> 02:29:07,520
books. I mean, you’ve seen this all over LinkedIn and everything. I was like, I’m

2404
02:29:07,520 –> 02:29:10,806
going to take this idea. I’m going to slap new labels on it. And then

2405
02:29:10,806 –> 02:29:14,565
it’s holistically mine. And, like, look how great I am. And, you know,

2406
02:29:14,565 –> 02:29:18,325
it’s, like, that game is not

2407
02:29:18,325 –> 02:29:22,005
winnable, I don’t think. Right? And you’re just gonna get your

2408
02:29:22,005 –> 02:29:25,306
ego crushed and, you know, find something else to do.

2409
02:29:26,330 –> 02:29:28,750
But, like, I think if you’re coming from, like

2410
02:29:30,810 –> 02:29:34,010
and this is the hardest part because, like, we’re not even aware of the biases

2411
02:29:34,010 –> 02:29:35,950
we hold. Right? Like,

2412
02:29:37,930 –> 02:29:40,810
I love the idea a couple years ago that there was this big thing about

2413
02:29:42,065 –> 02:29:45,686
what was it, is digital photography. And black

2414
02:29:45,745 –> 02:29:49,505
black people didn’t show up well on digital photography, and and it was

2415
02:29:49,505 –> 02:29:53,346
like this big bias. And and, like, yeah, it it it it is a bias.

2416
02:29:53,346 –> 02:29:56,350
It’s something we need to work on, but, like, it wasn’t intentional.

2417
02:29:57,130 –> 02:30:00,670
You know? Like like like, no one was like, hey. Let’s let’s build a technology

2418
02:30:00,890 –> 02:30:04,650
that, like, puts white people, like, in photos, but but not black

2419
02:30:04,650 –> 02:30:07,870
people. Like, it was, like, it was unintentional. It needs to be fixed.

2420
02:30:08,010 –> 02:30:11,355
Right. But let’s not go demonize the people that were, like,

2421
02:30:11,976 –> 02:30:15,655
found something that forever changed everything else after

2422
02:30:15,655 –> 02:30:19,335
them. Right? So, like, I think we get way too fixated on our

2423
02:30:19,335 –> 02:30:22,910
impactful change, like like, at an individual level

2424
02:30:23,150 –> 02:30:26,750
Mhmm. As opposed to, like, thinking to where, like, we could have a meaningful

2425
02:30:26,750 –> 02:30:30,510
change. Like, for me, for my sales stuff, I’m I’m

2426
02:30:30,510 –> 02:30:34,256
under no delusion that a

2427
02:30:34,256 –> 02:30:38,016
100 years from now, people are talking about Sherpa and the way that I

2428
02:30:38,016 –> 02:30:41,455
talk about it, the way that I talk about it, unless something changes and I

2429
02:30:41,455 –> 02:30:44,676
start growing and and build an empire and all this other stuff.

2430
02:30:46,160 –> 02:30:49,840
But I, like, I also can’t think about

2431
02:30:50,000 –> 02:30:53,600
I can’t envision a world to where the ideas that I’m talking

2432
02:30:53,600 –> 02:30:56,900
about won’t benefit the individual.

2433
02:30:57,440 –> 02:31:00,180
Yeah. You know what I’m saying? And I think some people

2434
02:31:00,995 –> 02:31:03,955
and business books are this way as well. Here’s the thing I did once, and

2435
02:31:03,955 –> 02:31:07,095
because I did it, it was epic. Right? The whole Nassib,

2436
02:31:08,515 –> 02:31:12,275
or Nassim Taleb stuff. Right? Like Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Like, just because

2437
02:31:12,275 –> 02:31:15,454
you did it, doesn’t mean you can do it again. You know? Right. It’s not

2438
02:31:15,454 –> 02:31:19,243
a non what is it? Something about non repeatable. I can’t remember what you’re talking

2439
02:31:19,243 –> 02:31:22,587
about. Yeah. Right? And it’s like, we we have those people. I did this once.

2440
02:31:22,587 –> 02:31:25,930
It’s gonna work a 1000 times. Like, you should buy my course in my program.

2441
02:31:25,930 –> 02:31:29,273
It’s only 47.99, and here’s a step up to, like, $9,000 and all this stuff

2442
02:31:29,273 –> 02:31:32,885
that we’re seeing all over the place. And it’s, like, I think I

2443
02:31:32,885 –> 02:31:36,645
think if you’re too ego driven around the change that you wanna

2444
02:31:36,645 –> 02:31:40,485
make, you bog yourself down to where, like, it’s impossible to have any

2445
02:31:40,485 –> 02:31:43,845
lasting impact if you’re not suspicious pushing that rock up the

2446
02:31:43,845 –> 02:31:46,890
hill. But I think if your intentions are

2447
02:31:48,149 –> 02:31:51,910
solid I’m not trying to tell I’m not trying to teach people how to

2448
02:31:51,910 –> 02:31:55,590
sell at the expense of other people. I’m teaching

2449
02:31:55,590 –> 02:31:57,910
people you need to listen, you need to ask better questions, you need to have

2450
02:31:57,910 –> 02:32:01,726
some curiosity. I hope that continues to be, like,

2451
02:32:01,726 –> 02:32:05,505
needed and and, you know, a best practice a 150

2452
02:32:05,565 –> 02:32:09,165
years into the future. Now my version of it probably doesn’t need to

2453
02:32:09,165 –> 02:32:12,605
continue the way that it is, but I’m hopeful that the foundation has some

2454
02:32:12,605 –> 02:32:16,380
value. I think that’s a good place

2455
02:32:16,380 –> 02:32:20,140
to stop. I’m thinking we’ll let John have the last word

2456
02:32:20,140 –> 02:32:23,979
today. And all I’m gonna say is, well, thank you,

2457
02:32:23,979 –> 02:32:27,279
John, for coming on the podcast today. With that,

2458
02:32:28,822 –> 02:32:29,643
we’re out.