Leadership Lessons From The Great Books #87 – A Burglar’s Christmas by Willa Cather w/Tom Libby

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

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Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode number

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87 in regular numbering

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with our guest cohost today, The last time he

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will be guest cohosting, at least for this season. He’ll be back next

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season. Don’t worry, folks. We’re not booting him off the show completely.

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Actually, we’re letting him come in more, actually, weirdly enough. Tom

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Lavey. How are you doing, Tom? I’m doing fantastic. How

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are you doing, Hassan? Well, you know, we’re we’re rounding the corner towards the end

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of the year. It’s the holidays. So, just like,

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Well, just like in most cases, when you eat too much and the

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the belt gets loosened, we’re loosening the belt of,

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Discipline around here, and things are falling apart left and right. So it’s great.

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It’s good times. Love it. That that’s that’s that’s awesome. I

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love lack of discipline. Not.

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Our core demographic is gonna love that. Alright. So

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so, we are going to cover a short

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story today. It’s not really a book. It’s a short story today,

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that was originally published near the beginning of Willa

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Cather’s writing career in, in 18/96.

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And she published this, short story under the pseudonym Elizabeth

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l Seymour. And you can actually find this,

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this book, if you go and Google

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the the Cather writings at the,

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the University of Nebraska Lincoln, you can actually find this book

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here or the short story here that we’re gonna cover today. And it was

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published at Harper’s Weekly and a few other places, and then it was republished a

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few times. It didn’t get a whole lot of popularity during the

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course of her lifetime, but it does fit the

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Christmas theme or the which are holiday theme, although for us here,

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we say Christmas. So the Christmas theme that we’re doing at the end of the

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year here, and it kind of really acts as

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a jumping off point, for our exploration

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of the actual meaning of the Christmas holiday and, of

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course, how it’s, juxtaposed at the end of the year,

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next to, next to New Year’s. So So we’re going to focus

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our conversation today around themes of forgiveness,

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desire, and the inevitable tension between the

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unrealized dreams of prodigal children and the siren call of

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home. And so today, we will be talking about,

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Willa Cather’s short story A Burglar’s Christmas.

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Now the version that I have and by the way, there’s many open source versions

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floating around. The version that I have,

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was, published in to support the work of 3

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p’s, a charity registered in England and Wales. That’s one of the

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versions that I have today, but there’s many different open source versions floating around.

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I recommend you get Yourself, a copy of this. And it’s a real easy read.

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It’s only 30 pages when published. And the link that I sent to

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Tom from the University of Nebraska Lincoln, I think it was only, like, what? Like,

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it was like a 10 minute read. It was easy. Right? Yeah. About that. That’s

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in 15 minutes. Yeah. It’s not that hard. So from

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A Burglar’s Christmas by Willa Cather, we’re gonna pick up

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literally right at the beginning. 2 very shabby

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looking young men stood at the corner of Prairie Avenue and 80th

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Street looking despondently at the carriages that whirled by. It was

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Christmas Eve, and the streets were full of vehicles, florists, wagons,

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groceries, carts, and carriages. The streets were in that half liquid, half congealed

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condition, peculiar to the streets of Chicago at that of the year. The swift

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wheels that spun by sometimes through the slush of mud and snow over the 2

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young men who were talking on the corner. Well, remarked the elder

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of the 2. I guess we are at our rope’s end sure enough. How do

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you feel? Pretty shaky. The wind’s sharp tonight. If I had

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Anything to eat. If I had had anything to eat, I might not mind it

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so much. There’s simply no show. I’m sick of the whole business.

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Looks like there’s nothing for it but the lake. Oh, nonsense. I thought

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you had more grit. Got anything left you could hock? Nothing

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but my beard. I am afraid they wouldn’t Find it worth a pawn

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ticket, said the young man ruefully rubbing a week’s growth of stubble

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on his face. Got any folks anywhere? Now is your time to strike

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them if you have them. Never mind if I have. They’re out of the

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question. Well, you’ll be out of it before many hours if you

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don’t make a move of some sort. A man’s gotta eat. See here, I

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am going down to Longtime Saloon. I used to play the banjo in there with

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a couple of coons, and I’ll bone him for some of his free lunch stuff.

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You better come along. Perhaps they’ll fill an order for 2. How far

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down is it? Well, it’s clear downtown. Of

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course, way down on Michigan Avenue. Thanks. I guess I’ll

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loaf around here. I don’t feel equal to the walk and the cars while the

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cars are crowded. His features drew themselves to what might

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have been a smile under happier circumstances. No.

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You never did like streetcars. You’re too aristocratic. See here,

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Crawford. I don’t like leaving you here. You ain’t good company for yourself tonight.

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Crawford? Oh, yes. That’s the name. There have been so many

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I forgot them. Have you got a real name anyway?

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Oh, yes. But it’s one of the ones I’ve forgotten. Don’t you worry about me.

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You, go along, get your free lunch. I think I had a row In

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Longton’s place once, I better not show myself there again.

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As he spoke, the young man nodded and turned slowly up the avenue.

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He was miserable enough to want to be quite alone. Even the crowd that

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jostled by him annoyed him. He wanted to think about

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himself. He had avoided this final reckoning with himself for a year

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now. He had laughed it off and drunk it off. But now,

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when all those artificial devices which are employed to turn our Thoughts into

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other channels and shield us from ourselves had failed him.

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It must come. Hunger is a

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powerful incentive to introspection.

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18/96 in Chicago hanging out with the

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slush. Turns out that 18/96 in Chicago is just as bad as

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2023 in Chicago.

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So introspection always Comes at the end of

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the year. And what we do on this podcast is we talk

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about books and short stories. We try to Glean some ideas,

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thoughts, some something that leaders can use from,

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from these works. And, in thinking

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about the 3 holidays that occur at the end of the year,

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Pache, Tom Levy, and I’m going to I’m gonna

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say this. Thanksgiving does occur at the end of the year in the

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rotation, then, then we have Christmas, then we have New Year’s. I

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know it is football day for Tom, not Thanksgiving Day. Wanna be

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sensitive to that. But it does come there. Right?

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And, there are principles, right, that are wrapped around that

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rotation. Right? And it’s interesting because, I’ve started reading a book called,

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The 4th Turning, in preparation for,

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some topics that we’re going to cover next year, by William

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Howe and Neil Strauss written back in 1997, and they

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talk about in that book or they write about in that book how,

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we as modern people, and it is a critique of modernity.

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We have abandoned the idea of cyclical time.

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We’re we’re we’re very much linearly focused in our perception

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of time because, well, we’re linear linearly focused

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in our perception of progress, and cycles

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kind of perturb us a little bit.

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Hathor, however, came from a different time. Right? And,

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Yes. She, had grown up in Nebraska, and she’s grown up in the

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Midwest. And so she came from a place where cycles

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really did matter, cycles of time, cycles of

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growth. When you lived on the great plains in the

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late, 18 nineties and the early 20th

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century, and you were a farmer on the Great Plains or a

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rancher on the Great Plains. You were going to be

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involved in cycles, and you were going

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to feel the rhythm of that and you were going to transpose that to human

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relationships. And that’s Something that we see with these 3 holidays placed

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at the end of the year, but it’s also something that we see in The

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Burglar’s Christmas with themes of gratitude, forgiveness, reconciliation,

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and ultimately renewal.

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In our more linear age, you know, the postmodern

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age we now live in, whether business or personal. We tend to be driven by

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the idea that we could have done more or accomplished more or been more. We

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could have progressed linearly more during the

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year. This, of course, creates tensions because now

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you’re caught up in an endless, shall I say, cycle

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of never having done enough. And this is where we get

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the penultimate expression of our

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insanity with not being able to reconcile linearity

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with cyclical nature of time,

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with the New Year’s resolution. You know, that thing where all of you

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show up in the gym where I’m at, and I’ve been there the last 365

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days 4:30 in the morning. Every morning, the last 365

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days, and then all of you are on the machines.

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And on the weight rack and squatting

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and deadlifting. But then guess what? I take

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heart because you’re all gone by February. Maybe March at the

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latest, but the vast majority of you are gone.

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And and the reason why is because of this

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cyclical nature of time, the cyclical

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nature of introspection.

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And don’t worry, you’ll be back in the same cycle next year hitting

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yourself on the head, wondering or someplace else.

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Wondering how can you break out of this.

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We are driven by an overwhelming ambition to self improve

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in America. Whether that’s right or wrong, we

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just are. And you get a touch of the beginning

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of this in The Burglar’s Christmas. Catherine was a

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writer who kind of sat on that, and William

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Faulkner was another one who kinda set on that boundary between the old

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world, the the premodern world, and the modern world that was coming

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up, a modern world defined by writers like Hemingway and Fitzgerald

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and Dos Passos, who we have covered on this podcast as well.

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But then there was the old world that had come before defined by writers like

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Hawthorne and Melville and Poe, where the cyclical

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nature of experience was running dead

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set into the linear nature of progress, and

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introspection was something that was going to have to happen there

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at that transition. So I’d like to talk a little bit about

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introspection today with Tom along with some other things, including

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Jingle All the Way. We’re gonna talk about getting beat down at Christmas.

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And, my personal favorite topic this time of the year, which I wish

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this was an actual holiday that would make it into the rotation,

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from Seinfeld’s episode in 1997, The Strike,

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Festivus for the Rest of Us.

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Tom. With that rousing introduction and my flashing

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lights behind me, which none of you can see on the audio version of this.

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On the video version, you’ll be able to see the flashing lights that I wrapped

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immediately around my tree.

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What do you think of introspection at the end of the year, and how do

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we measure success or failure? What do you think of how of what all of

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how all that happens at the holidays season, you know, the

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holiday time. Because it is it is this weird cyclical thing that

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happens at the end of all this linearity.

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Well, I you know, it’s funny that you say that,

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like, from a from a personal standpoint because

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it’s not just Persons that do this like, companies do

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this too. Right? Like Oh, yeah. Companies will they’ll set something in

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motion. They’ll they’ll have these end of year End of year meetings where

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they gauge, like, their success of the year or

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whatever, and then they’ll design goals for the following year, and then they’ll set them

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in motion, And then they’ll meet about it next next December

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and and and they’ll talk about whether it’s I so I

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I I it’s not just an interpersonal thing. I think I think to your point,

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we we’ve we’ve gotten to we’ve gotten this this way about,

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the way we think about, about these things. And

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before I go too deep into it, I’ll give you a a a

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I guess my feeling on this. I’m not sure if it’s a philosophy or Or

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a feeling, but my my son my son was talking about

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getting back into shape and working out and stuff like that, right? This is like

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a Tuesday or somethings like that in the middle of the week. It’s like he’s

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him and I were just talking, and he goes, you know,

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you know what? I I think, things are starting working out, so, you know,

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Sunday, I’m gonna I’m gonna start, and I go, hey. Time out.

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Why are you waiting till Sunday? Because I wanna start as a fresh week. I

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wanna get a fresh I go, What difference why can’t you start

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tomorrow? Hell, why can’t you start today? If it’s something

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that you wanna do, it’s something you wanna change, it’s something you wanna influence and

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make Better in your life. Why are you waiting until Sunday?

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And if that’s the case, then why not wait until the 1st day of the

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month? Like, what what just for, like, What? Let’s just turn the page on the

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calendar and start fresh start fresh. Start anew. Start

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like, I don’t understand the philosophy of waiting until

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Sunday To do something you think is going to make yourself better,

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why are you waiting? Right? So go back to this, and I’m

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going, Why are we waiting until the end of the year to do

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this? From any of these perspectives, even from the corporate

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perspective, why are we not looking at this on a

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Quarterly basis, monthly basis, weekly basis, daily basis.

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We should be looking at ways to improve ourselves minute by minute, never

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mind at the end of the year. Like, this to me was it’s baffling. The

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whole thought process behind this to me is baffling. And why are

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we only thankful at the end of the year? Why are we why are we

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I know I tell my significant other every

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single day that I’m thankful for her to be in my life. Mhmm. Every

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day. Not not a single day goes by. And and I ask her, I I

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I I have asked her in the past, does it bother you? Should I not

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do that? Like, I I know because people say that, You know, showing gratitude

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and and that stuff is great, but, you know, getting, like,

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hounding over day over day, like, sometimes it could just you know, it sound it

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starts to sound Disingenuous. Mhmm. And I asked her, and

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she went, absolutely not. We’ve been doing this long enough that if you stopped,

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I would think something was wrong. I said,

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Okay. So so so for her, it’s not an

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annual or it’s a daily affirmation for her for me to thank her and be

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thankful that she’s in my life. Right? Like So I I guess there’s levels here,

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and you can peel back onions left and right. And, you know, from a personal

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perspective, it should be it should be a lot more frequent. Maybe the

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corporate thing Daily is probably not

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feasible. Right? Like, I get that. I get that. But the it should still be

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there’s there should Still be more in tune to it than

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it’s like like it’s like it’s like driving down the road, right, and

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and and realizing that you’re only a mile from home and and you should’ve stopped

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at the supermarket, and you’re like, oh, crap. Like, now is not the

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time to think of that. Right? Like Right. So so I’m thinking, like, yeah, like

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like, The end of the year is not the is not the

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time it’s not the only time to be thinking of that. You should be thinking

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of this frequently throughout the course of the year. But why we do it?

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Why we wait until the end of the year? That is a phenomenon that I’ve

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never understood. I’ve no one’s ever given me a a good enough

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reason For me to think that this is, like, oh, it’s just the way

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to do it. This makes sense. Everybody should be thinking of it this way. It

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doesn’t no. It doesn’t make sense to me. Well, I think

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it’s because I think it has something to do with

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that, the way in which we perceive

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progress, and cycles. I do. I I

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genuinely think that there’s something there in Strauss and,

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and Hal’s idea in the 4th turning. I think there’s something

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there Yeah. Where And and I think it’s

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become worse as we’ve gone further and further

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away from the land such as it

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were. Right? As as human beings, particularly us in

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America, as we’ve conquered more of nature and we’ve been able

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to Free ourselves. At least

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we think we have. Free ourselves from the

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constraints of nature and the constraints of time itself

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where we are we we get you you see this in people. They get so

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frustrated. People do. Okay. So here’s the thing, and I I’ve

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revealed this on the podcast before. I’ll say it again. I do not do

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time management training. I don’t. I don’t I don’t I

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don’t see the point of it. I don’t,

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believe that it’s something that is valuable. If you wanna get a time

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management training from me and and you wanna professionally,

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you know, hire me to do that, I will

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refuse. I will turn you down very politely, and then I will send you directly

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to our YouTube channel where there is an hour and a half long time

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management presentation, which has 4 views because no one wants to sit

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there and watch that for that long, and I cover everything that there is needs

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to be said about time management. And I have not done a time management training

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since I shot that in 2017.

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That’s in the last word for me on time management

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because The idea that we can manage time in

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a corporate setting is the ultimate extension

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of we are masters over nature. We’re masters over time.

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And to me, it’s hubris. When in reality, what we should be

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managing to the point about you made about your son by the way, he’ll

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probably be in the gym next to me on the deadlift machine in January improving

294
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himself. No. No. No. No. So I I have a

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literally complete gym in my basement. And when I say complete, I mean, like,

296
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literally. If you You would think if I painted the walls, you were in, like,

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a Planet Fitness. Oh, okay. Alright. Okay. So he’ll be in your gym.

298
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Alright. Yeah. I I I actually go one step further because I actually have Heavy

299
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bags in there and, like, all kinds of stuff. Oh, wow. Like, Planet Fitness doesn’t

300
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have I need to go to Tom’s Gym. What am I doing? Why am I

301
00:19:29,115 –> 00:19:32,400
going to the Y? Why are you paying for this? But,

302
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like, it’s it’s the ultimate extension

303
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of of that idea of self improvement is that we’re just gonna

304
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manage our time. And so you’re right. Like, to your point about about him, like,

305
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he should be managing his priorities. He’s clearly not putting his health as

306
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number 1, whatever or whatever it is that he’s doing with, you

307
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know, working out for. And if he did, he would go do

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that. Whatever you put in that number 1 slot is what’s important to you.

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And I think when not I think, I know. When I say that have said

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that in the past to audiences, everybody shrinks

311
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because it’s too close to the truth of the solution. So does it

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work? The solution to the problem. That’s like my my one of my

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00:20:14,789 –> 00:20:18,505
favorite I my My, father-in-law, who’s

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since passed, was very influential to me. I loved this man

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more I mean, loved him probably more than my own biological family.

316
00:20:25,840 –> 00:20:29,200
Right? Wow. Okay. Yep. He was a mentor to me, a a

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spiritual adviser, like, the whole 9 yards. Right? Yeah. But I

318
00:20:32,960 –> 00:20:36,764
used to drive him Baddie. When I used to say I’m like, I

319
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don’t understand this philosophy. You know that you know, you you hear this that term,

320
00:20:40,845 –> 00:20:44,330
why put off to to why put off till tomorrow, what you can get done

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today? Right. And he’s I I I’ve never bought into that. My philosophy is the

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exact opposite. Why do today what you Can’t put off till

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tomorrow. And it used to drive him batty, and I’m like, no, you don’t understand.

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That means that what I’m doing today is the most

325
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important thing to me. If it’s not important, it can wait until

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tomorrow. Okay. Like But having the courage to admit that is something that

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00:21:06,549 –> 00:21:09,804
people don’t have. Exactly. Yes. That’s what I was getting at. Yeah. Because it used

328
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to drive him nuts. Right. See,

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I’d be like, well, at least you have the courage to admit it, and I

330
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can move on the rest of my for the rest of my life. And this

331
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is the thing with introspection, like so introspection is the act of looking backwards. It’s

332
00:21:22,480 –> 00:21:25,220
time’s arrow that looks backwards, and

333
00:21:26,355 –> 00:21:29,075
We talk a little bit about this before we maybe turn the corner or something

334
00:21:29,075 –> 00:21:32,755
else, but regret. Right? Like, we don’t talk about

335
00:21:32,755 –> 00:21:36,309
regret in our culture well either. I think of the movie,

336
00:21:37,669 –> 00:21:41,450
because you and I are both cinematic people, you probably saw this movie. Remember Magnolia

337
00:21:43,725 –> 00:21:46,684
And all the scenes with Jason Robards and,

338
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well, not all of them, but The whole subplot with Jason Robards and Tom

339
00:21:51,620 –> 00:21:55,380
Cruise who was the, like, the, like, remember remember Neil

340
00:21:55,380 –> 00:21:58,965
Strauss in the game? Remember that? That whole thing in the 19 nineties, the

341
00:21:58,965 –> 00:22:02,805
pickup artist guy. Yeah. Yeah. He was that pickup artist guy. And it

342
00:22:02,805 –> 00:22:06,520
turned out, of course, like it usually does with folks like that, that’s why

343
00:22:06,520 –> 00:22:10,360
this movie worked, that he had been damaged by a lack

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00:22:10,360 –> 00:22:13,985
of a relationship with his father, and he just wanted Basically, he

345
00:22:13,985 –> 00:22:17,285
wanted his father to die so that he could be released from

346
00:22:17,745 –> 00:22:19,525
that that that,

347
00:22:21,250 –> 00:22:25,090
that, anchor that was tying him down. And one of the

348
00:22:25,090 –> 00:22:28,610
lines in the film, and I’m not gonna repeat all of it because there’s

349
00:22:28,610 –> 00:22:31,425
some stuff in there that I’m not gonna not gonna so words in there that

350
00:22:31,425 –> 00:22:35,205
I’m not gonna say, some naughty words I’m not gonna say. But, basically, Robards,

351
00:22:35,265 –> 00:22:39,090
as he’s dying from cancer, tells him that, you know, the

352
00:22:39,090 –> 00:22:42,850
thing that kills us is not the things that we did, it’s

353
00:22:42,850 –> 00:22:46,495
the regret. Yeah. And I think that that

354
00:22:46,495 –> 00:22:50,255
drives a lot of introspection. Introspection is not about it’s not

355
00:22:50,255 –> 00:22:53,980
a forward it’s not a forward shooting arrow. It’s not, Hey.

356
00:22:53,980 –> 00:22:57,740
We’re gonna do this tomorrow. It’s more like, I didn’t do that yesterday, and now

357
00:22:57,740 –> 00:23:01,360
I’m gonna flagellate myself. And I also think there’s a religious element to that.

358
00:23:01,655 –> 00:23:05,495
We don’t use Christian terminology because we’re post Christian now. We’re better than that.

359
00:23:05,495 –> 00:23:09,335
Okay. So let’s not use Christian terminology. Let’s throw all that out, but we

360
00:23:09,335 –> 00:23:13,040
keep the guilt. We we keep that. Yeah.

361
00:23:13,180 –> 00:23:16,860
Yeah. We’re gonna throw out all the religious terminology and the religious structure around it,

362
00:23:16,860 –> 00:23:19,580
the theology around it that helped us navigate the guilt or at least put it

363
00:23:19,580 –> 00:23:22,765
in its right spot. Gonna toss all of that, but we’re gonna keep the guilt.

364
00:23:23,145 –> 00:23:26,765
Yeah. Right. So don’t eat that chocolate cake at, like,

365
00:23:26,905 –> 00:23:30,660
at, at Christmas. Oh, no. I’m

366
00:23:30,660 –> 00:23:34,280
letting go of that guilt. It’s it’s it’s

367
00:23:34,340 –> 00:23:38,184
the interpersonal guilt that I’m gonna hold on to. I’m gonna eat whatever I

368
00:23:38,184 –> 00:23:39,885
wanna eat. I’m just letting you know.

369
00:23:43,625 –> 00:23:46,764
Listen. When you grow up when you grow up dirt, poor,

370
00:23:47,130 –> 00:23:50,750
Indeed. I I tell my kids all the time. I used to, like,

371
00:23:51,770 –> 00:23:54,570
I used to have these I used to make I used to take 2 pieces

372
00:23:54,570 –> 00:23:58,215
of bread Mhmm. And put the most random stuff in the middle of it that,

373
00:23:58,215 –> 00:24:01,895
like Oh, yeah. Honestly, I would mayonnaise. I would just have 2 pieces of bread

374
00:24:01,895 –> 00:24:05,289
with mayonnaise in the middle. I would call it Wish Sandwiches because I wish there

375
00:24:05,289 –> 00:24:09,049
was meat in it. Right? Like That’s good to know. That’s actually good to

376
00:24:09,049 –> 00:24:12,725
know. So now when I stack the cold cuts up Six

377
00:24:12,725 –> 00:24:16,164
inches high, and my kids are like, dad, that’s gluttonous. I’m like, no. It isn’t

378
00:24:16,164 –> 00:24:18,184
because you don’t know what it’s like to have a wish sandwich.

379
00:24:21,270 –> 00:24:24,890
Anyway, I’m just saying I’m not retrospecting what I eat. I’m eating whatever I’m

380
00:24:25,030 –> 00:24:28,230
no. Oh, yeah. Well, my children monitor what goes into my mouth too. I’ve never

381
00:24:28,230 –> 00:24:30,285
had so many people in my life ever monitor what goes out of my goes

382
00:24:30,285 –> 00:24:33,725
out of my in my mouth, like, ever. It’s been stunning. I tell him, like,

383
00:24:33,725 –> 00:24:36,925
I’m surprised I was able to survive before you people. Like, how did I get

384
00:24:36,925 –> 00:24:40,770
here? How did I get here? Anyway Anyway No. But

385
00:24:40,770 –> 00:24:44,370
it is true. Like, I think I think when it comes to the regret it’s

386
00:24:44,370 –> 00:24:48,210
the interpersonal relationships that we that we view like that. Right? We don’t think with

387
00:24:48,210 –> 00:24:51,414
him and his father. In this particular story,

388
00:24:51,794 –> 00:24:55,475
that same conversation’s gonna be later on in this story, which I thought was

389
00:24:55,475 –> 00:24:59,210
interesting. But, Yeah. Why does it always come back to our

390
00:24:59,210 –> 00:25:02,190
fathers? I don’t know. Well well

391
00:25:02,809 –> 00:25:06,615
well, That’s part of the religious superstructure

392
00:25:06,755 –> 00:25:09,475
that we just dumped. We just dumped out the back. We don’t even we don’t

393
00:25:09,475 –> 00:25:13,210
even pay attention to that anymore. Right? So I’m not even gonna,

394
00:25:13,210 –> 00:25:15,930
I’m not even gonna visit that for the time being. If you wanna hear more

395
00:25:15,930 –> 00:25:19,215
of my thoughts on the patriarchy, there’s absolutely no episodes

396
00:25:22,654 –> 00:25:26,495
we’re SOL. Yeah. Well, no. We covered we covered

397
00:25:26,495 –> 00:25:29,190
a little we touched a little bit on it in our we’re I talked about

398
00:25:29,190 –> 00:25:32,950
Virginia Woolf a little bit because Virginia Woolf, very

399
00:25:32,950 –> 00:25:36,630
strong feminist writer, wrote in that sort of mode. And, of

400
00:25:36,630 –> 00:25:40,315
course, the episode slouching towards Beth slouching towards

401
00:25:40,315 –> 00:25:43,675
Bethlehem where we talked about Joan Didion’s great, great

402
00:25:43,675 –> 00:25:47,450
writing, where she wrote an entire essay about John Wayne when she

403
00:25:47,450 –> 00:25:51,130
was, like, 10 and talked about how she could, sense

404
00:25:51,130 –> 00:25:54,665
his His masculinity coming off the screen,

405
00:25:56,085 –> 00:25:59,845
so strong or his masculinity came off the screen so strongly that she could sense

406
00:25:59,845 –> 00:26:02,299
it even as a 10 year old, but she didn’t know where Where to put

407
00:26:02,299 –> 00:26:06,059
that? Right? That’s really the only 2 times that we’ve kind of covered the

408
00:26:06,059 –> 00:26:09,865
patriarchal order of reality. Maybe

409
00:26:09,865 –> 00:26:12,424
because I’m not looking to be in trouble, at least not at that level quite

410
00:26:12,424 –> 00:26:16,025
just yet. But anyway, we’ll save that for season 3. We’ll wait till we get

411
00:26:16,025 –> 00:26:19,670
to episode 187. 7. Yeah. Yeah. There you go. There you go. Then then I’m

412
00:26:19,670 –> 00:26:23,350
uncancelable at that point. Right. Actually, I’m never

413
00:26:23,350 –> 00:26:25,290
really worried about that. So anyway,

414
00:26:27,304 –> 00:26:30,825
Okay. One other thought. So forgiveness, right? So,

415
00:26:30,825 –> 00:26:34,664
okay. So you’ve got introspection, you’ve got regret, right?

416
00:26:34,664 –> 00:26:38,400
But That, again, part of that structure

417
00:26:38,400 –> 00:26:42,160
that we’ve thrown out, which is explored in this story, particularly from

418
00:26:42,160 –> 00:26:45,540
the mother’s perspective, is this idea of forgiveness and reconciliation.

419
00:26:47,775 –> 00:26:51,395
What and this is all very interesting to me because in grad school,

420
00:26:51,535 –> 00:26:55,235
I studied conflict resolution and reconciliation.

421
00:26:57,059 –> 00:27:00,200
Almost nobody ever asks me to do reconciliation work.

422
00:27:00,820 –> 00:27:04,440
Matter of fact, never. I never asked to do reconciliation work.

423
00:27:04,635 –> 00:27:08,475
And I’ve done all the study and written all the papers and done all

424
00:27:08,475 –> 00:27:10,015
the research, and nobody cares.

425
00:27:13,350 –> 00:27:17,110
And that’s not an that’s not a that’s not a hyperbolic statement. Like, there’s no

426
00:27:17,110 –> 00:27:20,765
interest in it whatsoever. Well, I think

427
00:27:20,765 –> 00:27:24,445
partly, there’s I think there’s some weird I don’t know.

428
00:27:24,445 –> 00:27:28,250
Maybe we don’t get into it on this particular episode or whatnot. I I think

429
00:27:28,250 –> 00:27:31,550
we could probably do a whole episode on just that because there’s

430
00:27:32,330 –> 00:27:35,995
like, forgiveness is a is a construct, right? Like, it’s Right. Like,

431
00:27:36,235 –> 00:27:40,075
We’re using a word to symbolize a

432
00:27:40,075 –> 00:27:43,595
feeling, but we don’t usually allow

433
00:27:43,595 –> 00:27:44,495
our actions

434
00:27:47,530 –> 00:27:51,370
To to fortify those feelings or to showcase those feelings, right? Like

435
00:27:51,530 –> 00:27:55,345
Right. You you get into a, You know, you get into something with somebody,

436
00:27:56,284 –> 00:27:59,885
a good friend or a family member or whatever, and somebody says, oh, they

437
00:27:59,885 –> 00:28:03,700
say I forgive you. Right. And then you just go about your,

438
00:28:03,700 –> 00:28:07,460
like, so the person being forgiven just kinda goes about their business

439
00:28:07,460 –> 00:28:10,865
normally, where the person that’s doing the forgiving Doesn’t

440
00:28:10,865 –> 00:28:12,885
always actually release that emotional

441
00:28:14,625 –> 00:28:18,305
control of that feeling, right? Like it’s Right. So you’re saying the

442
00:28:18,305 –> 00:28:21,909
words I forgive you, but your actions don’t always support your

443
00:28:21,909 –> 00:28:25,590
words, so but to the person who’s being forgiven, they act like it

444
00:28:25,590 –> 00:28:28,230
is. They just don’t even care anymore. They’re like, great. I was forgiven. I’m moving

445
00:28:28,230 –> 00:28:31,995
on. It is it it it it creates a very

446
00:28:31,995 –> 00:28:35,675
weird dynamic, which is, I think, to what you’re talking about, especially from a corporate

447
00:28:35,675 –> 00:28:38,730
perspective Or, like, this this outside

448
00:28:39,350 –> 00:28:43,190
reconciliation, nobody really is asking you for or wanting it because nobody really

449
00:28:43,190 –> 00:28:46,875
knows how to Really do it.

450
00:28:47,575 –> 00:28:51,335
And they’re they’re thinking it’s not a real thing. Like Right. Well and and

451
00:28:51,335 –> 00:28:54,890
that’s okay. That’s fine. Forgive me, this is not a real thing. Right? It’s a

452
00:28:54,890 –> 00:28:58,650
construct. It’s a construct. Right. And and see, this is this is this is part

453
00:28:58,650 –> 00:29:02,285
of the Again,

454
00:29:02,905 –> 00:29:04,205
when you when you

455
00:29:08,640 –> 00:29:11,680
When you try to culturally I’ll relate it I’ll relate it back to this idea

456
00:29:11,680 –> 00:29:15,440
of culturally unmooring ourselves from nature. When you

457
00:29:15,440 –> 00:29:19,105
unmoor yourself from nature, Now you sort of, or

458
00:29:19,105 –> 00:29:22,485
unbind yourself, not on more unbind yourself from nature

459
00:29:23,185 –> 00:29:26,940
as a, as a society, particularly our postmodern society in

460
00:29:26,940 –> 00:29:30,700
Japan is probably worse than we are, on this

461
00:29:30,700 –> 00:29:34,495
because. Like, give me a break. Like You can live

462
00:29:34,495 –> 00:29:37,855
in an entire apartment in Japan and never see another human being for literally

463
00:29:37,855 –> 00:29:40,434
decades. That’s insane. Right?

464
00:29:43,030 –> 00:29:45,670
This is why one of my favorite one of my favorite blogs at the end

465
00:29:45,670 –> 00:29:48,390
of, like, his newsletters or the end of their newsletters, they say, go out and

466
00:29:48,390 –> 00:29:52,065
touch grass. Right? Go out and get close to go on, get close to

467
00:29:52,065 –> 00:29:55,745
nature. And I think it’s it’s why I keep this plant.

468
00:29:55,745 –> 00:29:58,545
It’s behind me, you know, in my office. Like, you gotta

469
00:29:59,730 –> 00:30:02,870
There’s things that are outside of the purview

470
00:30:03,170 –> 00:30:06,150
of pure mechanistic

471
00:30:07,650 –> 00:30:10,445
evolutionary response.

472
00:30:11,225 –> 00:30:15,005
There’s there’s things that are outside of that, and forgiveness and reconciliation

473
00:30:15,145 –> 00:30:18,130
is one of those things. And by the way, in a corporate structure, people are

474
00:30:18,130 –> 00:30:21,570
running around asking for forgiveness all the time. Let’s not be let’s let’s be clear

475
00:30:21,570 –> 00:30:25,330
about this. If I if I put together a

476
00:30:25,330 –> 00:30:28,875
marketing campaign for a beer and it doesn’t work, The most

477
00:30:28,875 –> 00:30:31,935
tone deaf thing I could do is be like, well, I guess that didn’t work.

478
00:30:32,475 –> 00:30:36,015
Everybody yells at you on Twitter, I’m sorry, x, then. Right?

479
00:30:36,260 –> 00:30:39,940
Yeah. But if you wouldn’t And then the corporate environments that and you get that

480
00:30:40,020 –> 00:30:43,745
it’s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Right. So So

481
00:30:43,745 –> 00:30:47,045
people are, they they completely look at it from a different angle.

482
00:30:47,585 –> 00:30:51,160
It’s it’s not the interpersonal relationship Forgiveness is

483
00:30:51,160 –> 00:30:55,000
totally different than corporate forgiveness. It’s totally different. Well

484
00:30:55,000 –> 00:30:58,840
well, and corporate forgiveness comes down to PR. It’s a PR strategy. I mean, let’s

485
00:30:58,840 –> 00:31:01,885
be clear here. It’s a PR strategy. Right? Like,

486
00:31:02,665 –> 00:31:06,425
it’s good PR. It’s bad PR for me to show up and

487
00:31:06,425 –> 00:31:09,100
be like or be like. And to say,

488
00:31:11,400 –> 00:31:15,100
wow. It’s a shame that didn’t work out. Still gonna buy our product?

489
00:31:17,655 –> 00:31:21,415
You know, with the what me worry grin from Alfred e Newman, that

490
00:31:21,415 –> 00:31:25,250
got the cover of Mad Magazine back in the day. Right? It’s a

491
00:31:25,250 –> 00:31:27,990
better corporate strategy from a PR perspective

492
00:31:29,330 –> 00:31:32,770
to come out and pretend to be whatever you’re not

493
00:31:32,770 –> 00:31:36,355
pretend. Put on the show, the forgiveness show.

494
00:31:36,894 –> 00:31:40,495
And that’s where you get the really well worded

495
00:31:40,575 –> 00:31:44,220
actually, not even worded. You get the word salad memos that don’t make any

496
00:31:44,220 –> 00:31:47,899
sense, but everybody gets so lost to the world’s salad that people

497
00:31:48,059 –> 00:31:51,100
word salad that people just wander away, which is what the PR people are relying

498
00:31:51,100 –> 00:31:54,044
on. People wander away and their attention goes to something else because the word salad

499
00:31:54,044 –> 00:31:57,725
is too much. And you’re right. Forgiveness the the the change in behavior

500
00:31:57,725 –> 00:32:01,390
hasn’t actually occurred, And so the behavior continues on.

501
00:32:01,450 –> 00:32:05,210
Meanwhile, they were solid in something until they have culpable deniability from the

502
00:32:05,210 –> 00:32:08,970
lawyers. So the lawyers and the PR people get together to to to to gin

503
00:32:08,970 –> 00:32:10,145
up culpable deniability.

504
00:32:14,205 –> 00:32:17,820
Exactly. And and I don’t Deniability and interpersonal relate

505
00:32:18,020 –> 00:32:21,300
like, where you have to Right.

506
00:32:21,540 –> 00:32:24,120
Although, I do every once in a while, I find myself,

507
00:32:25,265 –> 00:32:29,025
Saying to one of my significant others in my life, whether it be

508
00:32:29,025 –> 00:32:32,645
the, you know, the wife, the kids, whatever, going, listen, I have plausible deniability

509
00:32:32,785 –> 00:32:36,440
here. Plausible deniability and

510
00:32:36,440 –> 00:32:39,340
culpable deniability are 2 different things. 2 different things. I

511
00:32:39,800 –> 00:32:43,535
know. 2 different things. Let’s be clear on our language here. Alright. Well,

512
00:32:43,535 –> 00:32:47,215
no, that’s that’s good. I think we’ve accomplished, we’ve solved absolutely nothing, but that’s

513
00:32:47,215 –> 00:32:50,975
okay. That’s good because we have more of the story that we can

514
00:32:50,975 –> 00:32:54,420
look at. So Back to Burglado’s Christmas,

515
00:32:55,440 –> 00:32:59,200
by, by Willa Cather. So we’re gonna pick up a

516
00:32:59,200 –> 00:33:02,395
few pages later where, the,

517
00:33:03,815 –> 00:33:07,115
well, a decision is about to be made. So let’s start with that.

518
00:33:07,495 –> 00:33:10,990
Whichever way his mind now turned, there was one thought it could not

519
00:33:10,990 –> 00:33:14,670
escape, and that was the idea of food, talking about a wish

520
00:33:14,670 –> 00:33:17,950
sandwich. Yes. He caught the he caught the scent of,

521
00:33:18,510 –> 00:33:22,195
of a cigar suddenly, and felt a sharp pain in the pit of his

522
00:33:22,195 –> 00:33:25,955
abdomen and a sudden moisture in his mouth. His cold hands clenched

523
00:33:25,955 –> 00:33:29,575
angrily, and for a moment, he felt that bitter hatred of wealth,

524
00:33:29,840 –> 00:33:33,440
of ease of everything that is well fed and well housed that is

525
00:33:33,440 –> 00:33:37,200
common to starving men. At any rate, he had

526
00:33:37,200 –> 00:33:40,955
a right to eat. He had demanded great things for the world once, fame, wealth,

527
00:33:40,955 –> 00:33:44,735
and admiration. Now it was simply bread, and he would have it.

528
00:33:45,035 –> 00:33:47,730
He looked about him quickly and felt the blood begin to stir in his veins

529
00:33:47,730 –> 00:33:51,570
and all this his straits. He never stolen anything. His tastes were

530
00:33:51,570 –> 00:33:55,265
above it, but tonight, there would be no tomorrow. He was amused

531
00:33:55,265 –> 00:33:58,784
at the way in which the idea excited him. He was it

532
00:33:58,784 –> 00:34:02,625
possible there was yet 1 more experience that would distract him? One thing that

533
00:34:02,625 –> 00:34:06,460
had power to Cite his jaded interest. Good. He

534
00:34:06,460 –> 00:34:09,820
had failed at everything else. Now he would see what his chances would be as

535
00:34:09,820 –> 00:34:13,405
a common thief. It would be amusing to watch the beautiful consistency

536
00:34:13,705 –> 00:34:17,545
of his destiny work out itself even in that role. It would

537
00:34:17,545 –> 00:34:21,389
be interesting to add another study to his gallery of futile attempts And then label

538
00:34:21,389 –> 00:34:24,909
them all. The failure as a journalist, the failure as a lecturer, the failure as

539
00:34:24,909 –> 00:34:28,530
a businessman, the failure as a thief, and so on, like the titles

540
00:34:28,670 –> 00:34:32,495
under the pictures of the dance of death. It was time

541
00:34:32,495 –> 00:34:35,155
the child, Roland, came to the dark tower.

542
00:34:36,495 –> 00:34:40,339
A girl hastened by him with her Arms full of packages. She walked quickly

543
00:34:40,339 –> 00:34:44,099
and nervously, keeping well within the shadow as if she

544
00:34:44,099 –> 00:34:46,739
were not accustomed to carrying bundles and did not care to meet any of her

545
00:34:46,739 –> 00:34:50,105
friends. As she crossed somebody’s street, she made an effort to lift her skirt a

546
00:34:50,105 –> 00:34:53,645
little. And as she did so, one of the packages slipped unnoticed,

547
00:34:54,665 –> 00:34:58,050
from beneath her arm. He caught it up and overtook her. Excuse me, but I

548
00:34:58,050 –> 00:35:01,650
think you dropped something. She started. Oh, yes. Thank you. I would have

549
00:35:01,650 –> 00:35:04,630
rather I would rather have lost anything than that.

550
00:35:05,575 –> 00:35:09,335
The young man turned angrily upon himself. The package was to contain something of value.

551
00:35:09,335 –> 00:35:12,795
Why had he not kept it? Was this the sort of thief he would make?

552
00:35:13,190 –> 00:35:16,870
Ground his teeth together. There’s nothing more maddening than to have a more have

553
00:35:16,870 –> 00:35:20,630
morally consented to crime and then lack the nerve force

554
00:35:20,630 –> 00:35:24,185
to carry it out. It’s a truly great observation, by the way.

555
00:35:24,185 –> 00:35:27,545
Plus, that is a truly great observation from Willa Cather. That is

556
00:35:27,545 –> 00:35:31,319
truly I underlined that twice, actually. A

557
00:35:31,319 –> 00:35:34,920
carriage back to the book. A carriage drove up the house before which he

558
00:35:34,920 –> 00:35:38,625
stood. Several richly dressed women alighted and went in. It was a new

559
00:35:38,625 –> 00:35:41,745
house, and it must have been built since he was in Chicago last. The front

560
00:35:41,745 –> 00:35:45,365
door was open, and he could see down the hallway and up the staircase.

561
00:35:45,665 –> 00:35:49,450
The servant had left the door and gone with the guests. The 1st floor was

562
00:35:49,450 –> 00:35:53,130
brilliantly lit, but the windows upstairs were dark. It looked very easy just to

563
00:35:53,130 –> 00:35:56,825
slip upstairs To the darkened chambers where the jewels and trinkets of

564
00:35:56,825 –> 00:35:58,685
the fashionable occupants were kept.

565
00:36:00,425 –> 00:36:04,070
Still burning with impatience against himself, He entered quickly.

566
00:36:05,410 –> 00:36:09,250
I’m gonna stop there at that spot because there’s a there’s a

567
00:36:09,250 –> 00:36:12,785
reveal there. There’s a turn there, which is

568
00:36:13,245 –> 00:36:16,925
interesting. It’s sort of, sort of the reveal of the MacGuffin or Anton

569
00:36:16,925 –> 00:36:20,440
Chekhov’s gun. A little bit there,

570
00:36:20,900 –> 00:36:24,260
gets a fire in, in Willa

571
00:36:24,260 –> 00:36:26,920
Cather’s The Burglar’s Chris or A Burglar’s Christmas.

572
00:36:28,855 –> 00:36:32,135
But something that’s even more interesting there, and like I said, I I like that

573
00:36:32,135 –> 00:36:35,655
idea that she had about morally consenting to a crime and not having

574
00:36:35,655 –> 00:36:39,290
the nerve to go through with it. By the way, how many people

575
00:36:39,290 –> 00:36:43,050
actually do that? I think quite a bit. That’s why that that hit a,

576
00:36:43,450 –> 00:36:47,275
nerve with me. But I was thinking about this book

577
00:36:47,275 –> 00:36:51,115
in the context of Black Friday or

578
00:36:51,115 –> 00:36:54,740
at least what Black Friday used to be. Now Tom and I are both of

579
00:36:54,740 –> 00:36:58,500
the age where we remember people getting beat

580
00:36:58,500 –> 00:37:01,000
down at Walmart over a plasma television.

581
00:37:02,724 –> 00:37:06,484
Remember that. Tickle my elbow. Like Remember people remember people

582
00:37:06,484 –> 00:37:10,244
were, like, throwing hands over, yeah, over a doll from Sesame Street?

583
00:37:10,244 –> 00:37:13,670
Sesame Street toy. Like, I couldn’t even believe it. And you were

584
00:37:13,670 –> 00:37:17,210
like, what? But every every Black Friday,

585
00:37:18,070 –> 00:37:21,734
I think for at least 20, 30 years, Things seem to escalate.

586
00:37:22,115 –> 00:37:25,795
They seem to escalate and escalate and escalate and escalate. Again, and people, you

587
00:37:25,795 –> 00:37:29,369
know, lining up, outside of Walmart

588
00:37:29,510 –> 00:37:32,089
or Target or name your name brand here,

589
00:37:32,950 –> 00:37:36,490
whatever the hot toy was, whether it was Pokemon, Tickle Me Elmo,

590
00:37:37,005 –> 00:37:40,385
remember Tamagotchis? Remember that? Yeah.

591
00:37:41,565 –> 00:37:45,170
Terrible things. I had those around my house, which, by the way,

592
00:37:45,170 –> 00:37:48,230
you could get in copious amounts in July.

593
00:37:49,650 –> 00:37:53,430
All of a sudden, Christmas Eve,

594
00:37:54,285 –> 00:37:58,045
No Tamagotis to be had anywhere. Now

595
00:37:58,045 –> 00:38:01,710
with the lower 48 states, maybe you could find 1 in China. She

596
00:38:01,710 –> 00:38:05,250
would have to get there, and you couldn’t get there. If you’re making

597
00:38:05,630 –> 00:38:09,390
$52,000 a year and you’re Sinbad and that movie Jingle All the Way remember that

598
00:38:09,390 –> 00:38:12,825
movie? I do. My wife hates that movie, but I watched it with the kids

599
00:38:12,825 –> 00:38:15,945
the other day, and I just started I laughed. I laughed because I was, like,

600
00:38:15,945 –> 00:38:19,385
this our children have to see the cultural artifact that was Black

601
00:38:19,385 –> 00:38:23,130
Friday because they will never know that. Our

602
00:38:23,130 –> 00:38:26,650
children will no one in their twenties who is listening to this podcast right

603
00:38:26,650 –> 00:38:30,355
now will ever know What it was like

604
00:38:30,575 –> 00:38:34,095
to have someone wanna throw hands with them over 52 inch plasma screen

605
00:38:34,095 –> 00:38:36,835
television. Forget forget about the television.

606
00:38:37,839 –> 00:38:41,460
Throw hands with them for saving a spot in line for your wife.

607
00:38:42,079 –> 00:38:44,720
Like, your wife would say, I have to go to the bathroom. She’d go to

608
00:38:44,720 –> 00:38:46,960
the bathroom and come back, and they’d be like, hey. Just don’t cut my lawn.

609
00:38:46,960 –> 00:38:50,645
Don’t cut Like, well, she’s with me, you idiot. Like With me.

610
00:38:51,345 –> 00:38:54,865
Yeah. Like, she’s not cunning. We’re the same person.

611
00:38:54,865 –> 00:38:58,390
Like, it it Oh, god. It’s not even like but,

612
00:38:58,390 –> 00:39:02,069
yes, that that they’re not so not only are they gonna

613
00:39:02,069 –> 00:39:05,865
not know it from that perspective, But Black Friday is not

614
00:39:05,865 –> 00:39:09,565
the same thing anymore anyway in the sense that now it’s it’s

615
00:39:10,265 –> 00:39:13,760
Black Week. Like, it’s like The the sales start on

616
00:39:13,760 –> 00:39:17,380
Monday of Thanksgiving. It, like like, it’s crazy

617
00:39:17,520 –> 00:39:21,305
that, like and now you got cyber Monday and small business Saturday

618
00:39:21,305 –> 00:39:25,145
and, like, there’s so many Tuesday. Yeah. Exactly. Like, in this,

619
00:39:25,145 –> 00:39:28,984
like, there’s so many versions of this this particular day now Mhmm. That

620
00:39:28,984 –> 00:39:31,950
these guys are never gonna understand what it’s Like to have a real

621
00:39:32,490 –> 00:39:36,090
true Oh, no. Friday, where you get up at 2 in the

622
00:39:36,090 –> 00:39:39,770
morning because you have to be in line by 4 AM because the store opens

623
00:39:39,770 –> 00:39:43,375
at 6. And if you’re not in in the like, it they’re never

624
00:39:43,375 –> 00:39:47,135
gonna understand that ever. They will they will never understand how

625
00:39:47,135 –> 00:39:50,595
normally sane and otherwise law abiding adults

626
00:39:50,950 –> 00:39:52,250
who paid their taxes

627
00:39:54,789 –> 00:39:58,470
Have health insurance. Have health insurance, move snow

628
00:39:58,470 –> 00:40:02,295
from their front porches, mowed their

629
00:40:02,295 –> 00:40:05,835
lawns, amenable, hi, Bob. How you doing?

630
00:40:05,975 –> 00:40:09,735
Getting in your car. My baby takes the morning train, works from 9 to

631
00:40:09,735 –> 00:40:13,560
5. All of that Get suspended one day of

632
00:40:13,560 –> 00:40:16,220
the year. All of a sudden, we’re in, like, an apocalyptic

633
00:40:17,000 –> 00:40:20,540
animal like Mad Max like Thunderdome like behavior.

634
00:40:20,825 –> 00:40:24,505
I wonder if somebody went through that experience and that’s how they came up with

635
00:40:24,505 –> 00:40:25,645
the movie The Purge.

636
00:40:30,119 –> 00:40:33,799
Well, that’s the only reason the purge works. Right? Because, like, one

637
00:40:33,799 –> 00:40:37,640
day. Remember that. One day. But you know what? You know what? The purge won’t

638
00:40:37,640 –> 00:40:40,185
work 10 years from now. No one’s gonna care about that movie 10 years from

639
00:40:40,185 –> 00:40:43,865
now because you’ll be like, I don’t know. Really? People that it’ll

640
00:40:43,865 –> 00:40:46,765
look old. It’ll look it’ll be weird. It’ll be a weird thing.

641
00:40:48,280 –> 00:40:51,880
No. I I so I did say I was gonna

642
00:40:51,880 –> 00:40:54,060
revisit Festivus. So,

643
00:40:55,320 –> 00:40:59,155
again, Festivus for the rest of us. So you know how

644
00:40:59,155 –> 00:41:02,435
Festivus came about? I remember this because I was a gigantic fan of the Seinfeld

645
00:41:02,435 –> 00:41:05,670
show. I’ve watched this I watch episodes of the show. Like, people watch episodes of

646
00:41:05,670 –> 00:41:09,049
Cheers multiple times. I’ve watched episodes of Seinfeld multiple times.

647
00:41:10,549 –> 00:41:14,385
My wife really likes Friends. That show was okay, I

648
00:41:14,385 –> 00:41:17,365
guess. I was a Seinfeld guy,

649
00:41:18,305 –> 00:41:21,684
so there you go. I’m aware of Friends.

650
00:41:23,990 –> 00:41:27,750
I watched the other show. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. I watched I watched every episode

651
00:41:27,750 –> 00:41:31,375
of both of those shows, but Could not for the

652
00:41:31,375 –> 00:41:35,215
life of you for a like, I I don’t rewatch shows a lot.

653
00:41:35,215 –> 00:41:38,415
Like, I don’t I don’t I’m not that person that will watch the same episode

654
00:41:38,415 –> 00:41:41,950
of a show 3, 4, 5 I just don’t do that. But I have watched

655
00:41:41,950 –> 00:41:45,790
every episode of both of those shows, so there’s that. I will

656
00:41:45,790 –> 00:41:49,595
watch that. I will watch the episodes of Seinfeld. And weirdly

657
00:41:49,655 –> 00:41:53,175
enough, over the last couple years, I found myself falling into a pit with Frasier,

658
00:41:53,175 –> 00:41:56,855
the original Frasier show. That was a good show too. Yeah. Because Kelsey Grammer was

659
00:41:57,105 –> 00:42:00,630
yeah. Watch all those too. Well, I appreciate the dad more. I appreciate John

660
00:42:00,630 –> 00:42:04,329
Mahoney way more than I did when I was a younger man. Yeah.

661
00:42:05,109 –> 00:42:07,664
He’s like, oh my god. I wish my dad were around. Oh my god. That

662
00:42:07,664 –> 00:42:10,164
would be spectacular. Drive him crazy

663
00:42:11,424 –> 00:42:15,025
all the time. But so in Seinfeld, in the episode called The

664
00:42:15,025 –> 00:42:18,070
Strike, where a number of different things happen. Kramer,

665
00:42:18,850 –> 00:42:22,450
gets invited back to his old bagel job because now they’re making $12 an

666
00:42:22,450 –> 00:42:26,245
hour, and hilarity ensues from that.

667
00:42:27,985 –> 00:42:30,005
But, but, George Costanza,

668
00:42:32,090 –> 00:42:35,870
His father, Frank, comes up with a holiday

669
00:42:35,930 –> 00:42:39,610
called Festivus. And he comes up with it

670
00:42:39,610 –> 00:42:42,455
because and this ties into what we were saying about Black Friday.

671
00:42:43,555 –> 00:42:47,075
And he’s telling Jerry, in in in, in,

672
00:42:47,315 –> 00:42:49,815
in his great, delivery and cadence.

673
00:42:50,970 –> 00:42:54,730
Jerry Stiller was a national treasure, and I I wish that man

674
00:42:54,730 –> 00:42:58,315
had never died. That guy was amazing. He’s amazing. There’s amazing

675
00:42:59,015 –> 00:43:02,695
timing as a sitcom comedian. But, and Ben

676
00:43:02,695 –> 00:43:06,520
Stiller, his son, hits and misses. You know? It’s hits and

677
00:43:06,520 –> 00:43:10,200
misses. As good. It’s not nearly as good. And I’m sure he would say that

678
00:43:10,200 –> 00:43:13,660
too. I’m sure he would agree. I’m not nearly as good as my father. Yeah.

679
00:43:13,799 –> 00:43:16,925
But Jerry Stiller was always on as Frank Costanza.

680
00:43:17,465 –> 00:43:20,925
Always. And he says, you know, he’s telling Jerry,

681
00:43:21,705 –> 00:43:24,950
I was standing in line for a doll and George goes, You think

682
00:43:25,070 –> 00:43:28,750
yeah. And he says, you know, as I was raining

683
00:43:28,750 –> 00:43:32,590
down blows upon this other man, I had revelation that there had to be

684
00:43:32,590 –> 00:43:35,715
another way. And from there, ding,

685
00:43:36,095 –> 00:43:39,315
Festivus was born. And then there’s the poll,

686
00:43:40,335 –> 00:43:44,040
the airing of grievances, The, Thespis isn’t

687
00:43:44,040 –> 00:43:47,400
over until you pin your father. This is a piece of

688
00:43:47,400 –> 00:43:50,620
strength. All of these kinds of things.

689
00:43:51,545 –> 00:43:55,305
Now the writers of Seinfeld created Festivus. 1 of the

690
00:43:55,305 –> 00:43:58,765
writers did because his father came up with Festivus

691
00:43:59,859 –> 00:44:03,540
because of sort of not wanting to be

692
00:44:03,540 –> 00:44:05,880
bothered with the commercialization of the holidays.

693
00:44:07,555 –> 00:44:10,994
Now the parts of Festivus that I like are the parts where you get to

694
00:44:10,994 –> 00:44:14,755
gripe about everybody and tell them all the problems that you’ve had

695
00:44:14,755 –> 00:44:16,994
with them during the course of the year, which, by the way, I think we

696
00:44:16,994 –> 00:44:20,310
should Actually, do that. I I think that that’s actually a brilliant innovation

697
00:44:20,930 –> 00:44:24,710
that, that what I think minimize a lot of the introspection

698
00:44:25,244 –> 00:44:28,605
Seth, because you just realize, oh, we just have continuing conflicts. It’s fine. I got

699
00:44:28,605 –> 00:44:31,085
a lot of problems with you people, and you’re all gonna hear about it. We

700
00:44:31,085 –> 00:44:34,464
have a we have a we have a sports talk radio station here in Boston

701
00:44:35,010 –> 00:44:38,530
That does a a Festivus episode every year where they just air their

702
00:44:38,530 –> 00:44:42,069
grievances about all this Boston sports teams. That’s It’s hilarious.

703
00:44:43,809 –> 00:44:47,475
Hilarious. Oh, that’s genius. That’s and, of

704
00:44:47,475 –> 00:44:50,455
course, it’s in Boston. Of course. Of course, it is.

705
00:44:52,800 –> 00:44:56,320
Plus it is. But my gosh, the the level of grievances that are going to

706
00:44:56,320 –> 00:44:59,520
be around this year, good lord, for the Red Sox and the Patriots. It’s gonna

707
00:44:59,520 –> 00:45:02,095
be amazing this year. This is gonna be a banner year for you all.

708
00:45:04,255 –> 00:45:07,135
But, anyway, I think we should have any area of grievances. I think that would

709
00:45:07,135 –> 00:45:08,515
be very helpful and therapeutic.

710
00:45:11,450 –> 00:45:14,589
It is one of those phenomenons that sort of

711
00:45:15,130 –> 00:45:18,349
crawled out from underneath the gutter of Black Friday

712
00:45:18,905 –> 00:45:22,285
When people realize just how ridiculous and wackadoo

713
00:45:23,145 –> 00:45:26,984
it is to, like, yell at somebody whose wife left in line over a

714
00:45:26,984 –> 00:45:30,560
Star Wars toy. Right? Like, people really had to look at that

715
00:45:30,560 –> 00:45:34,400
behavior and just go, what are we doing? We’re missing all of

716
00:45:34,400 –> 00:45:37,954
it. And Dickens, Charles Dickens, because we talked about The Christmas

717
00:45:37,954 –> 00:45:41,635
Carol last year when we re rereleasing that episode this

718
00:45:41,635 –> 00:45:45,320
year, just in time for the holiday. But Dickens

719
00:45:45,380 –> 00:45:48,820
even lamented the beginning of all that consumer culture and its

720
00:45:48,820 –> 00:45:52,500
spiritual outcomes. And then, of course, Willa Cather took it the next, you

721
00:45:52,500 –> 00:45:56,145
know, logical step, and sort of describing the the moral

722
00:45:56,145 –> 00:45:59,265
avarice and greed is sort of at the core at the core of that and

723
00:45:59,265 –> 00:46:02,869
that drives such behaviors with, with this young man who drives his

724
00:46:02,869 –> 00:46:06,250
hunger. So I guess the question is,

725
00:46:06,630 –> 00:46:07,130
like,

726
00:46:10,065 –> 00:46:13,685
Well, how would you celebrate Festivus, Tom?

727
00:46:13,985 –> 00:46:15,445
I guess that’s the question.

728
00:46:17,740 –> 00:46:20,780
I personally like the poll and the airing of grievances. I’m a big fan of

729
00:46:20,780 –> 00:46:24,540
that. Let let me just say, just for the record here. Okay? The

730
00:46:24,540 –> 00:46:28,325
the Patriots the Red Sox are not the only things I’d be complaining about.

731
00:46:28,384 –> 00:46:32,144
Do people not realize that it was this calendar year that

732
00:46:32,144 –> 00:46:35,589
the Bruins had a record season? They were, like, They were

733
00:46:35,589 –> 00:46:38,630
crushing people and then lost in the 1st round of the playoffs? Come on. I

734
00:46:38,630 –> 00:46:42,390
mean Introspection. See? It’s backward looking. They’re gonna bring it

735
00:46:42,390 –> 00:46:45,955
forward. Well, I think I think I think

736
00:46:45,955 –> 00:46:49,795
Festivists would be an interesting thing for us to incorporate, like, you know, on

737
00:46:49,795 –> 00:46:53,555
a on a on a whole, you know, on a countrywide level. I think if

738
00:46:53,555 –> 00:46:57,109
you think about it I mean, essentially essentially,

739
00:46:57,490 –> 00:47:01,250
that that’s like the day before New Year’s Eve.

740
00:47:01,250 –> 00:47:05,075
Right? Like Right. The day before New Year’s Eve would be the perfect date. Yes.

741
00:47:05,075 –> 00:47:08,835
You’re you’re gonna have new year’s resolutions coming out the next day. So this

742
00:47:08,835 –> 00:47:12,674
this day, we’re gonna just spend the day complaining and and

743
00:47:12,674 –> 00:47:16,240
and just Ripping people apart. Like, I want

744
00:47:16,240 –> 00:47:19,860
this. Clearing the palate. It’s a palate cleanser

745
00:47:20,480 –> 00:47:23,995
Yeah. Before you go into the new year. I guess, you know, I I

746
00:47:24,315 –> 00:47:27,935
so how what would I go sorry. The question

747
00:47:28,555 –> 00:47:32,369
the question was, what Would I complain about or or How would well, you’ll yeah.

748
00:47:32,369 –> 00:47:35,250
How would you well, let’s let’s okay. Let’s break it down a little bit more.

749
00:47:35,250 –> 00:47:39,065
So You’ve got the you’ve got the the poll, so

750
00:47:39,065 –> 00:47:42,684
you got the aluminum poll, which I think is brilliant. You’ve got the aerial grievances.

751
00:47:43,305 –> 00:47:45,964
You’ve got, the feats of strength. Right?

752
00:47:47,110 –> 00:47:49,670
And there’s one other thing which I’m forgetting right now, but I’ll remember it in

753
00:47:49,670 –> 00:47:52,890
just a moment. So you’ve got 4 elements to Festivus. Right?

754
00:47:54,565 –> 00:47:57,925
And, of course, George, on the episode decided to

755
00:47:57,925 –> 00:48:01,365
give his gift or no. No. Decided to donate your

756
00:48:01,365 –> 00:48:04,839
gift to the human fund, which I also think is

757
00:48:04,839 –> 00:48:08,359
brilliant, money for people. And so he would just give you a card that

758
00:48:08,359 –> 00:48:12,200
said, donation has been made of your gift in the name of

759
00:48:12,200 –> 00:48:15,165
the Human Fund, which which I think is just genius.

760
00:48:16,265 –> 00:48:19,825
I think I think that’s absolutely brilliant. I mean, you know, what

761
00:48:19,945 –> 00:48:23,700
the weird part is, I like, for my family, I don’t think we

762
00:48:23,700 –> 00:48:26,440
need a day like that. I mean, we complain all the time.

763
00:48:28,420 –> 00:48:32,265
We’re we’re we’re we’re talking I just had this conversation

764
00:48:32,325 –> 00:48:36,005
on Saturday about now I I I will not go into the

765
00:48:36,005 –> 00:48:39,800
nitty gritty details, but let me just say That

766
00:48:39,800 –> 00:48:43,640
as a as a like, we were talking about land acknowledgments to the native

767
00:48:43,640 –> 00:48:47,320
community. Sure. And I was ripping them apart. I’m

768
00:48:47,320 –> 00:48:50,895
like, this this is like This is the again, all

769
00:48:50,895 –> 00:48:54,415
the Not asking for the yeah. All the

770
00:48:54,415 –> 00:48:58,099
adjectives you wanna add in there, this ridiculous, stupid, crazy, what

771
00:48:58,180 –> 00:49:01,400
I probably used every one of them that that signified that these were

772
00:49:01,859 –> 00:49:05,625
a joke. Right? Like so I I I think I think the

773
00:49:05,625 –> 00:49:09,065
idea behind Festivus happening on one day is kinda

774
00:49:09,065 –> 00:49:12,365
silly. I I I think I think I think we spend all the year

775
00:49:12,670 –> 00:49:16,510
Complaining and and and moaning and groaning about everything else, and then the the

776
00:49:16,510 –> 00:49:19,870
holidays come and then we’re thankful for the same things we were just complaining

777
00:49:19,870 –> 00:49:23,474
about, like, 2 months ago, so

778
00:49:24,015 –> 00:49:27,855
I don’t know. I think it’s Well well, do you think

779
00:49:27,855 –> 00:49:31,650
that then then then let’s move to the feats of strength. Do the feats of

780
00:49:31,650 –> 00:49:35,490
strength stop criminal behavior? Is that basically what we were all arguing about

781
00:49:35,490 –> 00:49:38,710
over Black Friday? We need feats of strength. Otherwise

782
00:49:39,714 –> 00:49:43,395
Other otherwise, you know, well mannered tax

783
00:49:43,395 –> 00:49:46,675
paying people don’t have any way to get out the cortisol, like it just builds

784
00:49:46,675 –> 00:49:50,339
up. Right? The adrenal responses, and you’ve got

785
00:49:50,339 –> 00:49:53,779
this nice, you know, person who mows their lawn and waves at the

786
00:49:53,779 –> 00:49:57,435
neighbor who just wants to I I mean, you mentioned the purge.

787
00:49:57,435 –> 00:50:01,035
Okay. But I mean, like, you know, without going all the way to that whole

788
00:50:01,035 –> 00:50:04,829
murder part. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I I

789
00:50:04,829 –> 00:50:07,470
guess that makes a little bit of sense, but that’s why I have a gym

790
00:50:07,470 –> 00:50:10,990
in my basement. So you can’t be pinned?

791
00:50:10,990 –> 00:50:14,455
You Sun Campanio. Just get down and vent some

792
00:50:14,455 –> 00:50:18,135
frustration on the heavy bag or on the speed bag or on the deadlift

793
00:50:18,135 –> 00:50:21,730
or whatever it is. Like We had a deadlift for

794
00:50:21,730 –> 00:50:25,490
Festivus. We had a deadlift for Festivus. We had that’s that’s a marketing

795
00:50:25,490 –> 00:50:29,089
angle right there. Damn. Deadlift for Festivus. We’re

796
00:50:29,089 –> 00:50:32,924
solving problems here. No. I I just I I love it in

797
00:50:32,924 –> 00:50:36,765
the context of, obviously, we’re joking here. We’re joking around. We’re kidding around. But I

798
00:50:36,765 –> 00:50:40,440
mean, like, I think that the And, again,

799
00:50:40,440 –> 00:50:44,119
that line in here that I that I love, you know,

800
00:50:44,119 –> 00:50:47,795
there’s nothing more maddening than having a more having There is

801
00:50:47,795 –> 00:50:51,555
nothing more maddening than to have morally consented to crime and then

802
00:50:51,555 –> 00:50:53,895
lack the nerve and the force to carry it out.

803
00:50:55,590 –> 00:50:58,390
I think you get the nerve and the force to carry it out when your

804
00:50:58,390 –> 00:51:02,150
consequences are far enough away from you. Right? Yeah. And I think

805
00:51:02,150 –> 00:51:05,545
what holidays of all kinds do, whether it’s

806
00:51:05,605 –> 00:51:08,825
Festivus, or, you know,

807
00:51:09,285 –> 00:51:12,480
July 4th. Right? Or, I don’t

808
00:51:12,859 –> 00:51:16,559
know. Mother’s Day. It brings all of that

809
00:51:16,619 –> 00:51:20,115
to us. Right? You talk about, you know, not having gratitude for the entire year.

810
00:51:20,115 –> 00:51:23,955
We’re now gonna have gratitude at the end of this cycle. I think

811
00:51:23,955 –> 00:51:27,720
that’s true because, the nature

812
00:51:27,720 –> 00:51:31,480
of celebration sharpens things for people in their, in

813
00:51:31,480 –> 00:51:35,275
their heads. As human beings, we have so

814
00:51:35,275 –> 00:51:39,035
much chaos in our own heads and in our own lives. Like, we need

815
00:51:39,035 –> 00:51:42,840
that time set aside to just focus on one thing

816
00:51:42,980 –> 00:51:46,680
even though 10 minutes afterward, we’re gonna be jumping right back into the chaos.

817
00:51:48,635 –> 00:51:51,595
Well, and there’s something to be said, and again, I like you said, we’re I

818
00:51:51,595 –> 00:51:55,355
know we’re we’re joking and we’re taking this to an extreme joke. Yeah. Yeah.

819
00:51:55,355 –> 00:51:58,910
But but If you again, reel reel this back into a

820
00:51:58,910 –> 00:52:01,810
corporate environment, and there’s something to be said about

821
00:52:02,270 –> 00:52:05,945
anonymous, like, Surveys and Mhmm. Being able to

822
00:52:05,945 –> 00:52:09,465
being able to really, like, air out your

823
00:52:09,465 –> 00:52:13,280
grievances toward your company. Because if leadership really wants the answer

824
00:52:13,280 –> 00:52:16,480
and they really wanna solve problems, they’re gonna listen to their people, but they’re gonna

825
00:52:16,480 –> 00:52:20,285
give them the freedom to say what they need to say And without repercussion

826
00:52:20,345 –> 00:52:24,105
on it. Right? So that’s the feet of strength. Essentially, to me, that’s the

827
00:52:24,105 –> 00:52:27,730
interpretation of feet of strength. Right? Like, you’re gonna You’re gonna give them the opportunity

828
00:52:27,730 –> 00:52:31,570
to to air out whatever agreements they have, but you’re not gonna penalize them

829
00:52:31,570 –> 00:52:35,330
for pointing out the detriment or pointing out the fault

830
00:52:35,330 –> 00:52:38,875
or the The failure of the company. You’re gonna reward

831
00:52:38,875 –> 00:52:42,635
them in a sense, if you think about it, because you’re gonna fix it. So

832
00:52:42,955 –> 00:52:46,510
Mhmm. You’re gonna go fix The problem. And then hopefully, year over year

833
00:52:46,510 –> 00:52:50,270
over year, those grievances become either, a, more manageable,

834
00:52:50,270 –> 00:52:54,055
or, b, nonexistent. Right? Like, you’re gonna Fix these things, and hopefully you build in

835
00:52:54,055 –> 00:52:57,575
a mechanism where it’s not just once a year that you’re doing this. Like,

836
00:52:57,575 –> 00:53:01,335
but but in staying with the theme that we’re talking about, even if it

837
00:53:01,335 –> 00:53:04,280
was once a year, it’s Still going to be a benefit to the company if

838
00:53:04,280 –> 00:53:07,660
you’re if you’re giving people that that

839
00:53:08,280 –> 00:53:12,075
sense of, like and and to your point, a second ago, like, Okay.

840
00:53:12,075 –> 00:53:15,755
I got this anonymous thing. I can write whatever I want. Right. So there’s

841
00:53:15,755 –> 00:53:19,275
no, like, there’s no repercussion here. I can be as

842
00:53:19,275 –> 00:53:23,010
evil, as mean, as, Or as

843
00:53:23,010 –> 00:53:26,770
open and honest and sincere. Mhmm. Like like,

844
00:53:26,770 –> 00:53:30,290
there’s very distinctly differences, and you could literally say the same thing.

845
00:53:30,290 –> 00:53:33,865
It’s a matter of how it it’s interpreted on the other side of it. Right?

846
00:53:33,865 –> 00:53:37,645
Like, so, again, from a leadership perspective, you need to be open minded, openhearted,

847
00:53:37,945 –> 00:53:41,260
and being able and willing to hear the hard the hard truths.

848
00:53:41,800 –> 00:53:45,640
Well, in no society that I’ve

849
00:53:45,640 –> 00:53:49,454
ever heard of Has ever survived a

850
00:53:49,454 –> 00:53:52,835
mass level of anonymity? So, like, anonymous

851
00:53:52,974 –> 00:53:56,820
feedback at, I’m gonna name a

852
00:53:56,820 –> 00:54:00,580
giant corporation here. If I work at Ford, which I

853
00:54:00,580 –> 00:54:04,120
think employs, like, 55,000 people, something like that. Okay.

854
00:54:05,625 –> 00:54:09,164
Anonymous feedback at Ford, Ford can survive that, it’s fine.

855
00:54:09,224 –> 00:54:11,565
The culture of Ford will survive that.

856
00:54:12,900 –> 00:54:16,500
Anonymous feedback at a societal level via we’ve been

857
00:54:16,500 –> 00:54:19,619
experiencing this for the last 30 years. This is not anything new that I’m saying.

858
00:54:19,619 –> 00:54:23,205
Right? We we recognize what it is. We just we just don’t have the solution

859
00:54:23,205 –> 00:54:26,745
to the problem. But anonymous feedback on the Internet from like

860
00:54:27,045 –> 00:54:30,809
rollerbaby65@gmail.com, I

861
00:54:30,809 –> 00:54:34,250
don’t care. Like, who are you? I don’t know. You could be a

862
00:54:34,250 –> 00:54:37,849
bot. You could be an AI. You could be a,

863
00:54:38,170 –> 00:54:41,475
an AI bot. You know, you could be some

864
00:54:41,855 –> 00:54:45,375
somebody sitting in a room somewhere, somewhere overseas just

865
00:54:45,375 –> 00:54:49,055
spamming, you know, spamming me or spamming the platform I happen to be

866
00:54:49,055 –> 00:54:52,260
on. Who are you? And so at a global scale

867
00:54:53,040 –> 00:54:56,160
or at a at a not even a global scale, I’ll break it down even

868
00:54:56,160 –> 00:54:59,734
further. At a nation state scale, No

869
00:54:59,734 –> 00:55:03,515
society ever survives anonymity. It just doesn’t, you know?

870
00:55:03,895 –> 00:55:07,414
You you there’s no way there’s no way to build a relationship with

871
00:55:07,414 –> 00:55:10,860
that. But there’s some fundamental flaws between the 2, like, fundamental

872
00:55:11,300 –> 00:55:14,980
very Separation. Differences between the 2. Right? Like, you’re talking about a

873
00:55:14,980 –> 00:55:18,825
company that The anonymity comes from a link that you provide

874
00:55:18,825 –> 00:55:22,505
that is only gonna be attached to the people that you want

875
00:55:22,505 –> 00:55:26,090
the information from. Right? You’re you’re asking them for the information. From a

876
00:55:26,090 –> 00:55:29,390
societal perspective, you may or may not want that person’s

877
00:55:29,450 –> 00:55:33,210
feedback. I don’t. I know. I don’t want I don’t want rollergirl65@yahoo.com’s feedback. I

878
00:55:33,210 –> 00:55:36,315
don’t I don’t want So I don’t know. I don’t care. So when you see

879
00:55:36,315 –> 00:55:38,875
it, it’s not it’s not accepted the same way. It’s not the same. So I

880
00:55:38,875 –> 00:55:41,915
agree. I and I and I think you’re right, but I think the purposes between

881
00:55:41,915 –> 00:55:45,230
the two are Completely different. Or completely different. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There’s a bifurcation,

882
00:55:45,610 –> 00:55:49,150
but I think the emotional response, which is what

883
00:55:49,369 –> 00:55:53,005
holiday systems get too, is managing that emotional response in a cyclical

884
00:55:53,005 –> 00:55:56,625
fashion. That emotional response is what we’re not good at,

885
00:55:57,724 –> 00:56:01,349
navigating, I don’t think. I think the best I think the best exercise I

886
00:56:01,349 –> 00:56:04,650
ever heard when it came to something like this, I was working for a company,

887
00:56:05,030 –> 00:56:08,545
and they had this survey that they called, stop, start,

888
00:56:08,545 –> 00:56:12,224
continue. Mhmm. So they wanted they they basically just said, open

889
00:56:12,224 –> 00:56:16,065
response, give us 2 things that you want the company to stop doing

890
00:56:16,065 –> 00:56:19,810
right now, like, 2 things that you That that that you’re bothered by. It could

891
00:56:19,810 –> 00:56:23,350
be anything you want. I I don’t like this marketing campaign. I don’t like this,

892
00:56:23,810 –> 00:56:27,515
I don’t I you know, our Our four zero one k sucks. Well,

893
00:56:27,515 –> 00:56:30,555
whatever it is, like but 2 things that you want the company to stop right

894
00:56:30,555 –> 00:56:33,775
now and 2 things that you want the company

895
00:56:34,150 –> 00:56:37,750
To continue doing because you love it, and then 2 things you would like them

896
00:56:37,750 –> 00:56:41,510
to start doing. So Okay. Something that’s not even on the radar, like,

897
00:56:41,510 –> 00:56:44,065
and and the the ones the the thing I found is because I was in

898
00:56:44,065 –> 00:56:47,744
the leadership team of that company. The thing I found the most fascinating was

899
00:56:47,744 –> 00:56:51,265
the the start. The the the stop and the continue

900
00:56:51,265 –> 00:56:54,960
ones Were like normal stuff. It was like, okay, some things

901
00:56:54,960 –> 00:56:58,500
we can control, some we can’t, some we can influence, some we can’t, whatever.

902
00:56:58,935 –> 00:57:02,295
But the ones that said start, like, give me 2 things that you wish the

903
00:57:02,295 –> 00:57:06,135
company would do tomorrow, they were all over the place with it,

904
00:57:06,135 –> 00:57:09,760
like Everywhere from giving back to charities

905
00:57:10,380 –> 00:57:14,220
to offering daycare to, like, it was all over the spectrum, and

906
00:57:14,220 –> 00:57:17,835
I found that those were the most fascinating parts of it because that to

907
00:57:17,835 –> 00:57:21,675
me, that was the most personalized version

908
00:57:21,675 –> 00:57:25,355
of this. Like, so like, you know, when you’re saying I want the

909
00:57:25,355 –> 00:57:29,099
company to Stop doing this. It could be because it you think it offends other

910
00:57:29,099 –> 00:57:32,859
people or you think it attacks a certain minority group or you think

911
00:57:32,859 –> 00:57:36,315
it whatever. Like, there’s always, like, I I I just don’t like being involved with

912
00:57:36,315 –> 00:57:40,075
a company that does this. Like, it’s not but the the start piece was

913
00:57:40,075 –> 00:57:43,650
very personal all the time. It was interesting,

914
00:57:44,350 –> 00:57:48,190
it was very interesting. And

915
00:57:48,190 –> 00:57:51,330
the continue was always pretty

916
00:57:51,744 –> 00:57:55,265
Themed. I’ll just say that. Like, across the board of the of the

917
00:57:55,265 –> 00:57:58,920
hundreds of people that we had working for the company. There’s a

918
00:57:58,920 –> 00:58:02,760
general The jury consistency. Yeah. There’s a general line there. Yeah. Yeah.

919
00:58:02,760 –> 00:58:06,280
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Now that that that is

920
00:58:06,280 –> 00:58:10,105
interesting. I wonder if, I have to think about more

921
00:58:10,105 –> 00:58:13,944
about that because I wonder if it’s the spirit of or the sense of not

922
00:58:13,944 –> 00:58:17,005
the spirit of the psychological sense of

923
00:58:17,610 –> 00:58:21,450
creativity, and freshness that’s coming in at the beginning. And then in the middle,

924
00:58:21,450 –> 00:58:25,210
you’re just, whatever. And then at the end, it’s more like,

925
00:58:25,210 –> 00:58:28,725
okay. I guess we’re back to status quo now. I wonder if that’s the psychological

926
00:58:28,945 –> 00:58:32,485
transitions for people inside of an organizational behavioral

927
00:58:32,545 –> 00:58:36,280
context like what you’re talking about that that that picks

928
00:58:36,280 –> 00:58:39,800
that up. That’s interesting. I have to think some more about that. But the

929
00:58:39,800 –> 00:58:43,345
exercise itself was awesome. I loved it. I I actually really liked it. They just

930
00:58:43,345 –> 00:58:46,925
called it Start Stop Continue. It was the And I’ve heard a variation

931
00:58:47,865 –> 00:58:51,405
of that before. I don’t know where. I’ve read about it in some organizational

932
00:58:51,545 –> 00:58:54,260
behavior literature piece. But,

933
00:58:55,460 –> 00:58:59,080
but, yeah, that that that definitely that definitely has some value.

934
00:58:59,595 –> 00:59:03,355
Excellent. Now back to the book, back to or back to the story anyway, The

935
00:59:03,355 –> 00:59:07,115
Burglar’s Christmas. So we’re gonna skip over the MacGuffin piece. You’re gonna have to read

936
00:59:07,115 –> 00:59:09,570
it to figure out what that is. We’re gonna go

937
00:59:10,590 –> 00:59:14,270
to William, talking to

938
00:59:14,270 –> 00:59:16,655
his mother. I’m not gonna tell you how he got there, though.

939
00:59:18,095 –> 00:59:21,635
You have to read it and find out. I’d rather you wouldn’t, Will.

940
00:59:21,935 –> 00:59:25,695
Listen. This is his mother talking. Listen. Between you and me, there can

941
00:59:25,695 –> 00:59:29,359
be no secrets. We are more alike than other people, dear. Dear boy, I know

942
00:59:29,359 –> 00:59:32,960
all about it. I am a woman and circumstances were different with me, but we

943
00:59:32,960 –> 00:59:36,305
are of one blood. I have lived all your life before you.

944
00:59:36,525 –> 00:59:40,365
You have never had an impulse that I have not known. You have never touched

945
00:59:40,365 –> 00:59:43,980
a brink that my feet have not trod. This is your birthday night. 24

946
00:59:43,980 –> 00:59:47,500
years ago, I foresaw all this. I was a young woman

947
00:59:47,500 –> 00:59:50,859
then, and I had hot battles of my own, and I felt your likeness to

948
00:59:50,859 –> 00:59:54,615
me. You are not like other babies. From the hour you were born, you

949
00:59:54,615 –> 00:59:58,375
were restless and discontented as I have been before you. You used to brace

950
00:59:58,375 –> 01:00:01,580
your strong little limbs against mine and try to throw me off as you did

951
01:00:01,580 –> 01:00:05,100
tonight. Tonight, you have come back to me just as you always did after you

952
01:00:05,100 –> 01:00:08,300
ran away to swim in the river that was forbidden you, the river you loved

953
01:00:08,300 –> 01:00:11,805
because it was forbidden. You were tired and sleepy just as you used to be

954
01:00:11,805 –> 01:00:15,185
then, only a little older and a little paler and a little more foolish.

955
01:00:15,805 –> 01:00:19,569
I never asked you where you had been then nor will I now. You have

956
01:00:19,569 –> 01:00:23,410
come back to me. That’s all in all to me. I know your

957
01:00:23,410 –> 01:00:27,190
every possibility and limitation as a composer knows his instrument.

958
01:00:28,975 –> 01:00:32,115
He found no answer that was worthy to give to a talk like this.

959
01:00:32,815 –> 01:00:36,275
He had not found life easy since he had lived by his wits.

960
01:00:36,620 –> 01:00:39,980
He had come to know poverty at close quarters. He had known what it was

961
01:00:39,980 –> 01:00:43,420
to be gay with an empty pocket to wear violets in his buttonhole when he

962
01:00:43,420 –> 01:00:46,865
had not breakfasted, and all the hateful shams of the poverty of

963
01:00:46,865 –> 01:00:50,545
idleness. He had been a reporter on a big metropolitan daily where

964
01:00:50,545 –> 01:00:54,310
men grind out their brains on paper until they have not 1 idea left and

965
01:00:54,310 –> 01:00:57,910
still grind on. He had worked in real estate office where

966
01:00:57,910 –> 01:01:01,590
ignorant men were swindled. He had sung in a comic

967
01:01:01,590 –> 01:01:05,335
opera chorus, and played Harris in an Uncle Tom’s Cabin Company

968
01:01:05,395 –> 01:01:09,235
and edited A Socialist Weekly. He had been dogged by

969
01:01:09,235 –> 01:01:12,810
debt and hunger and grinding poverty Until to sit there

970
01:01:12,810 –> 01:01:16,410
until to sit there by a warm fire without concern as to how it would

971
01:01:16,410 –> 01:01:20,030
be paid for seemed unnatural.

972
01:01:26,845 –> 01:01:30,204
Not gonna read the whole thing, but just for reference in our script, we do

973
01:01:30,204 –> 01:01:32,770
have The story of the prodigal son,

974
01:01:34,190 –> 01:01:37,810
taken from, a reference from the bible,

975
01:01:38,430 –> 01:01:41,815
from, from Luke 15, 11 through

976
01:01:41,815 –> 01:01:45,654
32. Not gonna read that whole thing. But, what I am gonna do is I’m

977
01:01:45,654 –> 01:01:49,240
gonna point out some parallels that jumped out to me early with this. So

978
01:01:49,400 –> 01:01:52,360
When the mother is talking to the son, and and don’t worry, he has interactions

979
01:01:52,360 –> 01:01:56,200
with his father too. It is the idea of the prodigal

980
01:01:56,200 –> 01:01:59,465
son returning. Right? It’s this idea of prodigal return,

981
01:02:00,245 –> 01:02:04,025
which is again is is is framed by Kathar,

982
01:02:05,140 –> 01:02:08,420
even in that last piece where he talks about all the jobs that he’s had

983
01:02:08,420 –> 01:02:11,640
and all the things that he’s done, it’s framed in a cyclical

984
01:02:11,780 –> 01:02:15,335
context, not a linear one. Right? And it’s this idea

985
01:02:15,335 –> 01:02:18,295
of as, as,

986
01:02:20,375 –> 01:02:24,060
well, as Nietzsche would talk about, this is actually one of the truths buried in

987
01:02:24,060 –> 01:02:27,819
the in the Nietzschean two lies and a truth dance that

988
01:02:27,819 –> 01:02:31,359
he used to do. This myth of eternal return.

989
01:02:31,565 –> 01:02:35,005
Right? The idea that you could always return back to the place where you

990
01:02:35,005 –> 01:02:38,685
started, or you will always return back to the place where you started. And, of

991
01:02:38,685 –> 01:02:42,349
course, that’s a that’s a biblical trope, which we do often and Catherine’s

992
01:02:42,349 –> 01:02:45,890
works, whether it be from Proverbs, whether it be from Genesis.

993
01:02:46,510 –> 01:02:50,085
In this case, this is from Genesis and from Luke, you know, from ashes to

994
01:02:50,085 –> 01:02:53,525
ashes and from dust to dust. Right? You’re gonna be returning back to the

995
01:02:53,525 –> 01:02:57,100
place where you came from. Well,

996
01:02:57,100 –> 01:03:00,860
that entire idea of of the myth of return is

997
01:03:00,860 –> 01:03:04,555
the MacGuffin for Cather after all, not the act that

998
01:03:04,555 –> 01:03:08,395
William engages in to get himself into, and then through the house,

999
01:03:08,395 –> 01:03:09,935
and to get his mother’s attention.

1000
01:03:11,990 –> 01:03:15,750
What’s interesting, the turn that Catherine does here at a literary level,

1001
01:03:15,750 –> 01:03:19,430
which is interesting to me, is that in the prodigal son, the

1002
01:03:19,430 –> 01:03:23,145
story of the prodigal son, it’s Father that accepts the son back. Right?

1003
01:03:23,204 –> 01:03:26,405
But here, it’s the mother that accepts the son back. By the way, in the

1004
01:03:26,405 –> 01:03:30,010
story of the prodigal son, Jesus, when telling this story to his disciples,

1005
01:03:30,150 –> 01:03:33,910
does not mention a mother at all. There’s no

1006
01:03:33,910 –> 01:03:37,454
female presence in that in that biblical story, which is why

1007
01:03:37,535 –> 01:03:41,234
which is one of the one of the major reasons why in a patriarchal

1008
01:03:41,375 –> 01:03:45,069
culture, like, the one that the bi patriarch Easter

1009
01:03:45,069 –> 01:03:48,910
culture that the bible came out of. This is why it shocked his

1010
01:03:48,910 –> 01:03:52,589
audiences, when he, when he actually said it. As a

1011
01:03:52,589 –> 01:03:56,135
matter of fact, they were probably scandalized by the idea that a

1012
01:03:56,135 –> 01:03:58,395
father would run to his son.

1013
01:04:00,214 –> 01:04:03,980
That was kind of a no no. Well,

1014
01:04:03,980 –> 01:04:07,820
in our American culture, that now transposed over to the mother

1015
01:04:07,820 –> 01:04:11,180
because the mother is the one that holds that maternal care.

1016
01:04:11,180 –> 01:04:14,905
Right? And, the father, as is often in

1017
01:04:14,905 –> 01:04:18,445
Katharine’s work, the father represents the world. Right?

1018
01:04:18,905 –> 01:04:22,700
And we see this in my Antonia. We saw this in my Antonia with grandfather

1019
01:04:22,700 –> 01:04:26,140
and grandmother. Grandmother was way more maternal in that,

1020
01:04:26,539 –> 01:04:29,495
in that book, My grandfather represented,

1021
01:04:30,435 –> 01:04:33,635
the wheel of the world that was constantly turning that,

1022
01:04:33,955 –> 01:04:37,735
the the boy in in my entity, a gem, I believe, if I remember correctly,

1023
01:04:37,940 –> 01:04:41,540
was was attempting to break himself on in an attempt to get to

1024
01:04:41,540 –> 01:04:45,300
modernity. Right? And Antonia, of course,

1025
01:04:45,300 –> 01:04:47,845
rejected that and stayed in a different spot.

1026
01:04:48,805 –> 01:04:52,645
Now, Catherine uses this inversion of the

1027
01:04:52,645 –> 01:04:56,484
biblical narrative to address the growing separation between parents and children

1028
01:04:56,484 –> 01:05:00,150
in America. That was being changed by ambition and industrialization.

1029
01:05:01,010 –> 01:05:03,589
The son, William, in A Burglar’s Christmas

1030
01:05:04,985 –> 01:05:08,345
doesn’t return to the farm. He goes to the

1031
01:05:08,345 –> 01:05:10,365
city. He goes to Chicago,

1032
01:05:11,945 –> 01:05:15,760
not to the Nebraska prairie. And even his parents,

1033
01:05:16,540 –> 01:05:20,300
in an attempt to either reconnect or to move or whatever,

1034
01:05:20,300 –> 01:05:23,515
it’s very vague there because I think Katherine had That part out.

1035
01:05:24,454 –> 01:05:28,234
They, you know, they moved to Chicago as well. So there’s a dynamic

1036
01:05:28,295 –> 01:05:31,870
here moving from the farm to the city and everything shifting

1037
01:05:31,870 –> 01:05:35,710
around and changing, which gets us, of course, to the role of return

1038
01:05:35,710 –> 01:05:39,070
and the myth of return. We already talked about forgiveness. So let’s talk about this

1039
01:05:39,070 –> 01:05:42,635
idea of returning. I don’t remember which

1040
01:05:42,635 –> 01:05:46,395
writer it was who said it. I will probably remember it as

1041
01:05:46,395 –> 01:05:49,855
we’re talking, but, you know, this idea of you can’t go home again.

1042
01:05:50,620 –> 01:05:54,380
Yeah. Maybe if you think that, like, progress is a

1043
01:05:54,380 –> 01:05:58,140
linear thing. Right? There’s no cycles. But, Tom, can you go

1044
01:05:58,140 –> 01:06:01,665
home again? Can leaders go home again? Can you wind up back in the place

1045
01:06:01,665 –> 01:06:05,265
where you started? I mean, I

1046
01:06:05,265 –> 01:06:08,945
can’t see why not. Only, I I was told at a very

1047
01:06:08,945 –> 01:06:12,690
young age The you know, to be nice to people on the way up

1048
01:06:12,690 –> 01:06:15,570
because you’re gonna see them again on the way down. That’s right. So, like, the

1049
01:06:15,570 –> 01:06:19,204
whole idea of, like, you know, If you it’s

1050
01:06:19,204 –> 01:06:22,585
funny that I had a I had another conversation with

1051
01:06:23,045 –> 01:06:26,750
my other son, which was talking about, like, There’s a

1052
01:06:26,750 –> 01:06:30,430
there’s a a time in your life where you’re so new at

1053
01:06:30,430 –> 01:06:33,950
your profession that you just need to, you

1054
01:06:33,950 –> 01:06:37,385
know, Be quiet, learn, work

1055
01:06:37,385 –> 01:06:41,224
hard, just go move forward. And then there’s a tipping point where it starts to

1056
01:06:41,224 –> 01:06:44,285
balance the balance of knowledge

1057
01:06:45,030 –> 01:06:48,710
And youthfulness catches up, like, to the point where it’s, like, this

1058
01:06:48,710 –> 01:06:52,455
perfect mix of, like and I I was telling them, like, it Happens kind of

1059
01:06:52,455 –> 01:06:56,055
in your thirties. Right? Like, in your Mhmm. Early early to mid thirties where

1060
01:06:56,055 –> 01:06:59,655
you’ve got that 10 years of experience, but you’re still young enough to to have

1061
01:06:59,655 –> 01:07:03,480
the ambition to drive x y z. And then when

1062
01:07:03,480 –> 01:07:06,760
you hit your forties, it’s like you don’t wanna do the hard work anymore. You

1063
01:07:06,760 –> 01:07:09,960
wanna strategize. You wanna be the top level, like, you know Mhmm. And then you

1064
01:07:09,960 –> 01:07:13,325
hit your Late fifties, sixties, and you’re like, I just want a

1065
01:07:13,325 –> 01:07:17,085
job. I’ll take whatever job you give me. Like, right? Like, so to your

1066
01:07:17,085 –> 01:07:20,890
point, like, but it’s So yes, I

1067
01:07:20,890 –> 01:07:24,570
think you can. I don’t think everybody does, but I think it’s

1068
01:07:24,570 –> 01:07:28,270
possible that you can go back to the beginning and back to your roots and,

1069
01:07:28,330 –> 01:07:31,845
you know, I I I definitely think it’s possible.

1070
01:07:32,545 –> 01:07:36,165
So I I think of my own journey in my own,

1071
01:07:36,730 –> 01:07:39,770
you know, business. Yeah. I don’t think of it, Mike, because I’m not going back

1072
01:07:39,770 –> 01:07:43,549
to where I started either. Well, you know, I didn’t think I was either,

1073
01:07:43,609 –> 01:07:47,035
and COVID happened, and I wound up right back at the kitchen table. Like, it

1074
01:07:47,035 –> 01:07:50,575
was weird, like, literally in the exact same spot.

1075
01:07:50,875 –> 01:07:54,650
And I I sat there when we were all had to shut

1076
01:07:54,650 –> 01:07:58,170
down and go go home, and I had my laptop up literally in the exact

1077
01:07:58,170 –> 01:08:00,910
same spot at the exact same table, and I thought,

1078
01:08:01,930 –> 01:08:05,425
wow. 10 years to go, like, 4

1079
01:08:05,425 –> 01:08:09,045
inches. Yeah. Yeah.

1080
01:08:09,105 –> 01:08:12,630
Yeah. So I didn’t I didn’t have that. And I didn’t really know what to

1081
01:08:12,630 –> 01:08:15,470
do with that. Like, I didn’t really know where to put that, so I just

1082
01:08:15,590 –> 01:08:18,645
I didn’t think about it, and I moved on. Yeah. I didn’t I didn’t have

1083
01:08:18,645 –> 01:08:22,165
that issue. I I mean, we were already before COVID even started, we were already

1084
01:08:22,165 –> 01:08:25,850
generally working from home and Yeah. Like, we we already had remote stuff going on,

1085
01:08:25,850 –> 01:08:28,729
like, it wasn’t really that bad, but what I what I was referring to is

1086
01:08:28,729 –> 01:08:32,409
I started my professional career in the restaurant industry. I’m not doing that

1087
01:08:32,409 –> 01:08:36,095
again. Just letting you know. I’m not You know? I’m

1088
01:08:36,095 –> 01:08:39,854
not anything up back there. You don’t wanna wind up where Anthony Bourdain wound up

1089
01:08:39,854 –> 01:08:43,699
when he was 45 in different fries. You’ve been hot and fries and, like, greasy.

1090
01:08:43,699 –> 01:08:47,219
He’s like, what am I doing? I’m 45. Yeah. Exactly. Well,

1091
01:08:47,219 –> 01:08:50,975
actually, Anthony Bourdain had a very interesting life, So we will use him as

1092
01:08:50,975 –> 01:08:54,654
an example, but I’m just saying, like, I’m not going I’m not getting to the

1093
01:08:54,654 –> 01:08:58,335
point where I’m going back to that. That’s that’s what I was getting at,

1094
01:08:58,335 –> 01:09:01,920
so But Well but the rule applies. The the so,

1095
01:09:01,920 –> 01:09:05,439
essentially, what I was thinking, like, as I was thinking about this is it doesn’t

1096
01:09:05,439 –> 01:09:08,645
matter where you end up in life or what job you have, What role you

1097
01:09:08,645 –> 01:09:12,484
play. That doesn’t matter. The the the the the comment is, you know,

1098
01:09:12,484 –> 01:09:14,564
be nice to them on the way up because you’re gonna see them again on

1099
01:09:14,564 –> 01:09:18,160
the way down. It’s just people in general. Like, when you when you look at

1100
01:09:18,160 –> 01:09:20,740
a and I remember about 10 years ago,

1101
01:09:21,840 –> 01:09:25,685
there was this huge conversation that was popping up All over

1102
01:09:25,685 –> 01:09:29,225
the place on how we have to change the entire

1103
01:09:29,365 –> 01:09:33,205
workplace dynamic because millennials just were different than we were. Right?

1104
01:09:33,205 –> 01:09:36,660
Like, Millennial well, guess what, people? Millennials are turning

1105
01:09:36,660 –> 01:09:40,340
45. Like, they’re not. And if you start talking to them

1106
01:09:40,340 –> 01:09:44,185
today and you ask them today If they could talk to themselves when they

1107
01:09:44,185 –> 01:09:47,944
were 20, they would everyone everyone that I know, anyway, every

1108
01:09:47,944 –> 01:09:51,660
one of them that I know would say, I would smack the absolute crap out

1109
01:09:51,660 –> 01:09:55,280
of myself and tell myself to straighten up and fly right. Like, because

1110
01:09:55,580 –> 01:09:59,255
this this whole philosophy of, like, We we

1111
01:09:59,255 –> 01:10:02,455
are the workforce. We are gonna dictate to you what we’re gonna do. We are

1112
01:10:02,455 –> 01:10:06,135
gonna dictate it just went away. It went away as they got a little older

1113
01:10:06,135 –> 01:10:09,929
and realized that they were just being Obnoxious. Now we got Gen Z coming up

1114
01:10:09,929 –> 01:10:13,610
thinking the same goddamn way. Excuse my language. But, like,

1115
01:10:13,610 –> 01:10:17,385
you know, 10 years from now, Gen Z’s gonna realize, guess what? You are no

1116
01:10:17,385 –> 01:10:21,145
different than the 18 other generations that came before you. Just work hard. Just work.

1117
01:10:21,145 –> 01:10:24,760
Get a work ethic and go to work. So so this is

1118
01:10:24,840 –> 01:10:28,460
This is interesting that you bring this up, the generational cyclical piece, because,

1119
01:10:30,679 –> 01:10:34,344
the number one module that

1120
01:10:34,344 –> 01:10:37,005
I had that I was that I was training on,

1121
01:10:38,824 –> 01:10:42,620
before before COVID. Number 1 module I had was managing

1122
01:10:42,620 –> 01:10:46,380
the multigenerational workforce, number 1. And people

1123
01:10:46,380 –> 01:10:50,065
would pay me 1,000 of dollars to come in and

1124
01:10:50,065 –> 01:10:51,765
say what Tom just said for free.

1125
01:10:54,465 –> 01:10:56,325
I actually feel kinda good about that, actually.

1126
01:10:58,225 –> 01:11:01,780
You should. You should feel good about that. I do feel good about that, actually.

1127
01:11:01,920 –> 01:11:05,520
And, there he is correct. The the the reams

1128
01:11:05,520 –> 01:11:09,114
of digital ink that were spent talking

1129
01:11:09,114 –> 01:11:12,495
about the millennials. Unbelievable.

1130
01:11:12,955 –> 01:11:16,475
And now and now we are in a space

1131
01:11:16,475 –> 01:11:18,639
where, Achay, Tom Levy.

1132
01:11:20,300 –> 01:11:23,360
Reams of digital ink are being spent on

1133
01:11:24,515 –> 01:11:27,015
How Gen z is gonna revolutionize the workplace.

1134
01:11:31,710 –> 01:11:35,070
And the reality is there’s nothing that scares a millennial more than a Gen Z

1135
01:11:35,070 –> 01:11:38,670
er. Just like there was nothing that scared a baby

1136
01:11:38,670 –> 01:11:41,864
boomer more than a millennial. Gen Gen x.

1137
01:11:42,565 –> 01:11:46,184
Well, we always get forgotten, so I’m just gonna skip over us anyway.

1138
01:11:46,645 –> 01:11:50,120
Alright. Yeah. I guess. It doesn’t matter. We don’t scare anybody. Only

1139
01:11:50,120 –> 01:11:53,960
13 to 20,000,000 of us. We don’t scare anybody. We’re just hanging out. We don’t

1140
01:11:53,960 –> 01:11:57,640
wanna be scary. We just wanna why would scary, please. Come

1141
01:11:57,640 –> 01:12:01,465
on. Just relax. Dude, you’re all I just

1142
01:12:01,465 –> 01:12:05,145
think it I just think it’s funny that every generation complains about the

1143
01:12:05,145 –> 01:12:08,849
next one. Right? And then they end up falling into that Same. Absolutely.

1144
01:12:08,849 –> 01:12:12,449
And this is the cycle thing that the public says, the

1145
01:12:12,690 –> 01:12:16,335
our our our small p, not large p, not capital p,

1146
01:12:16,335 –> 01:12:19,554
political. Our small p progressive, like, tendencies

1147
01:12:20,175 –> 01:12:24,014
to believe that everything improves. Right? And we get stove this is

1148
01:12:24,014 –> 01:12:27,720
why This is why, like, the things that people argue about over on

1149
01:12:27,720 –> 01:12:30,760
social media at a certain point, and this is this happened to me a few

1150
01:12:30,760 –> 01:12:34,220
years ago, I realized I need to get out of the social media arguments

1151
01:12:34,775 –> 01:12:37,915
Because not only are we not advancing

1152
01:12:38,295 –> 01:12:41,975
anything, but we’re going to have the same arguments 10

1153
01:12:41,975 –> 01:12:45,750
minutes from now. And there’s no,

1154
01:12:46,290 –> 01:12:49,350
to paraphrase with Seinfeld, there’s no hugging and no learning.

1155
01:12:49,970 –> 01:12:53,030
Okay. The no hugging part, fine. I don’t wanna hug you if you’re on Twitter.

1156
01:12:53,635 –> 01:12:56,755
Please stay away from me. You don’t wanna hug me either. But I would rather

1157
01:12:56,755 –> 01:13:00,355
there be some learning. And there’s not learning. There’s

1158
01:13:00,355 –> 01:13:04,080
no growth here. And, of course, you know, you then

1159
01:13:04,080 –> 01:13:07,920
can can criticize the digital silos and the way that they don’t foster growth and

1160
01:13:07,920 –> 01:13:11,360
it’s all dopaminergic and blah blah blah blah. Okay. Yes. All that is is

1161
01:13:11,360 –> 01:13:15,185
true. But at a certain point, people have to decide. And I was reading a

1162
01:13:15,185 –> 01:13:18,625
blog post about this the other day where the guy at the end who has

1163
01:13:18,625 –> 01:13:22,340
made his business over the last 15 years of looking at the,

1164
01:13:23,220 –> 01:13:26,900
basically being pro acceler what he calls accelerationist now, which is

1165
01:13:26,900 –> 01:13:30,505
now the term used for progress. But being pro accelerationist, he’s

1166
01:13:30,505 –> 01:13:34,265
like, maybe at the end of the blog post, he he after 15

1167
01:13:34,265 –> 01:13:37,240
years, I’ve been reading this guy for a long time. He went, Maybe

1168
01:13:38,180 –> 01:13:42,020
the Internet isn’t gonna save us. And I

1169
01:13:42,020 –> 01:13:45,320
thought if I thought the thing that

1170
01:13:45,460 –> 01:13:49,145
that that Danny Glover says to Mel

1171
01:13:49,145 –> 01:13:52,905
Gibson in lethal weapon 4 right at the beginning of that movie when they’re

1172
01:13:52,905 –> 01:13:56,710
sitting on the bench and he just looks at him. And Bill Gibson can’t do

1173
01:13:56,710 –> 01:13:58,950
it because he got whipped by the kid, and he was, like, faking or whatever

1174
01:13:58,950 –> 01:14:01,590
and trying to get out of the boxing ring, that first little setup that they

1175
01:14:01,590 –> 01:14:05,145
have. Yeah. I have. And Danny looks at it and goes,

1176
01:14:05,145 –> 01:14:07,725
finally. It finally happened.

1177
01:14:11,950 –> 01:14:15,310
And that’s and that’s just what I want. I wanna I wanna literally look at

1178
01:14:15,310 –> 01:14:18,975
these people who have been writing deans of digital of

1179
01:14:18,975 –> 01:14:21,775
of of digital ink about the millennials, and now are doing the same thing about

1180
01:14:21,775 –> 01:14:24,849
Gen Z years and are now getting thrown over by the Gen Z years. People

1181
01:14:24,849 –> 01:14:27,570
who are talking about how the Internet was going to save us and are now

1182
01:14:27,570 –> 01:14:31,409
sort of backing away from that. You know, the folks who are arguing in

1183
01:14:31,409 –> 01:14:35,005
social media silos about things that, Quite frankly,

1184
01:14:35,145 –> 01:14:38,425
you know, we could have solved 10 years ago if we’d realized that we’re we

1185
01:14:38,425 –> 01:14:41,385
have the same conversation 10 minutes ago. Like, what are we doing here? What are

1186
01:14:41,385 –> 01:14:44,969
we what are we what are we doing? And you just it’s just I feel

1187
01:14:45,050 –> 01:14:48,430
I have that feeling. I do. I have that feeling of, like, Murdoch

1188
01:14:48,890 –> 01:14:52,605
finally. It finally happened. Yeah.

1189
01:14:52,605 –> 01:14:56,285
I hope so, actually. I’m not

1190
01:14:56,285 –> 01:14:59,965
so convinced, though, because, you know, they’re the the Gen Zers are

1191
01:14:59,965 –> 01:15:03,750
already talking about like, So, of course, what what what age group

1192
01:15:03,750 –> 01:15:07,190
is the Gen Zers right now? They’re early twenties. Right? Like, they’re 18 to

1193
01:15:07,190 –> 01:15:10,844
34, allegedly. So 34 year olds,

1194
01:15:10,844 –> 01:15:14,605
really, or Gen z? No way. They they do not think like a 21

1195
01:15:14,605 –> 01:15:17,970
year old. That that’s 2 different things. Anyway, whatever. The early

1196
01:15:17,970 –> 01:15:21,570
twenties. They’re already complaining. Giving you the numbers. I’m just I’m not I’m not

1197
01:15:21,570 –> 01:15:25,335
justifying them. The the early twenties people, like

1198
01:15:25,575 –> 01:15:29,415
21 to 26 year olds are already complaining about high

1199
01:15:29,415 –> 01:15:32,855
school kids. They’re already complaining about the fact that they don’t

1200
01:15:32,855 –> 01:15:36,350
understand. They don’t understand the the fight. They don’t understand. I’m like,

1201
01:15:37,050 –> 01:15:40,889
oh my god, you people. This is like of course

1202
01:15:40,889 –> 01:15:44,315
they don’t. They’re in high school. What are you expecting them To to be think

1203
01:15:44,475 –> 01:15:48,075
like, I don’t understand what you’re expecting of them. They have no

1204
01:15:48,075 –> 01:15:51,675
life experience whatsoever. They’ve done. You want them to have an opinion? Stop it. Well,

1205
01:15:51,675 –> 01:15:55,520
then you said you said, You know, by the time you hit 30, you’re

1206
01:15:55,520 –> 01:15:59,119
sort of you’ve been 10 years in your career. I would say the numbers have

1207
01:15:59,119 –> 01:16:02,295
been pushed back to 40 now. I don’t think it’s 30. I think it’s 30.

1208
01:16:02,414 –> 01:16:05,934
Think of mid 30, so I was thinking, like, 35. Okay. Okay. Sure.

1209
01:16:05,934 –> 01:16:09,560
35. Okay. So where this a lot of this started

1210
01:16:09,720 –> 01:16:11,820
With the with the youth culture pieces,

1211
01:16:14,760 –> 01:16:18,060
it was in the 19 sixties with the idea that,

1212
01:16:19,195 –> 01:16:22,955
you would never trust anybody over 30 granted to us by the baby

1213
01:16:22,955 –> 01:16:26,715
boomers. This philosophy of the people over 30, which, by the

1214
01:16:26,715 –> 01:16:29,590
way, I heard this the other day, and I will repeat this because it is

1215
01:16:29,590 –> 01:16:33,210
true. The person who was the vice president of the Rand Corporation

1216
01:16:33,350 –> 01:16:36,330
was 32 in 1970 something.

1217
01:16:37,085 –> 01:16:40,925
K? Now this person who was bringing this up

1218
01:16:40,925 –> 01:16:44,625
on this other podcast was bringing this up as a as a critique

1219
01:16:44,765 –> 01:16:48,510
of the capitalist system. Right? That somehow we have failed capitalism

1220
01:16:48,570 –> 01:16:52,330
or somehow capitalism has failed young people by not allowing people in their

1221
01:16:52,330 –> 01:16:55,230
thirties to be vice presidents of major corporations.

1222
01:16:56,235 –> 01:16:59,934
Except the thing is people in their thirties now who are

1223
01:17:00,635 –> 01:17:04,395
Pache, Gen Z, or millennials, whichever, it doesn’t matter. I

1224
01:17:04,395 –> 01:17:07,590
don’t care. Those people are running startups.

1225
01:17:08,530 –> 01:17:11,969
Those people are, senior leaders in

1226
01:17:11,969 –> 01:17:15,595
banks now. They are moving into those positions

1227
01:17:16,775 –> 01:17:19,915
where the VP of Rand was in 1970.

1228
01:17:20,535 –> 01:17:23,950
The difference between Them and the VP of Rand in

1229
01:17:23,950 –> 01:17:26,770
1970 is the VP of Rand in 1970

1230
01:17:27,550 –> 01:17:31,295
had 3, maybe 4 kids that he had to pay

1231
01:17:31,295 –> 01:17:34,915
for that kept his head on straight. That’s the fundamental

1232
01:17:35,135 –> 01:17:38,895
difference, right, between past generations and this current one, and this

1233
01:17:38,895 –> 01:17:42,560
is not me making this up. You can go look at the fertility numbers. You

1234
01:17:42,560 –> 01:17:46,000
could go look at the demographic numbers. Right? You could go look at the replacement

1235
01:17:46,000 –> 01:17:49,520
numbers. I’m not making any of this up. This is not a crazy theory. This

1236
01:17:49,520 –> 01:17:52,805
is not Some nonsense that Hazon made up on his podcast.

1237
01:17:53,185 –> 01:17:56,785
This is reality. You can go look at the numbers and see what

1238
01:17:56,785 –> 01:18:00,440
the Birth rates are and what the family creation rates

1239
01:18:00,440 –> 01:18:04,175
are and with the Kaiser Permanente Organization has measured with

1240
01:18:04,175 –> 01:18:07,775
this. The UN has measured this in the United States. For

1241
01:18:07,775 –> 01:18:11,535
people between the typically in the childbearing ages between 26, I think it’s, like,

1242
01:18:11,535 –> 01:18:14,350
34, I think it’s down to, like, what, like,

1243
01:18:15,130 –> 01:18:18,570
60, 70% of people, like, making babies? They make it babies and make it

1244
01:18:18,570 –> 01:18:22,345
families. Well, There is something

1245
01:18:22,345 –> 01:18:26,025
about that process that matures you in a

1246
01:18:26,025 –> 01:18:29,245
way that we we

1247
01:18:30,210 –> 01:18:33,810
We dismiss. Right? Now don’t get me wrong. Can you be

1248
01:18:33,810 –> 01:18:37,330
matured by that at any point in time when you have a child no matter

1249
01:18:37,330 –> 01:18:40,815
where you are at up to the age of 40, 50, whatever. Yes.

1250
01:18:40,815 –> 01:18:44,655
Absolutely. This is why, like, Larry King was popping out kids when he was

1251
01:18:44,655 –> 01:18:46,995
60. He was constantly trying to mature himself,

1252
01:18:50,150 –> 01:18:53,590
and none of you who are listening know who Larry King is. It’s fine. I

1253
01:18:53,590 –> 01:18:56,805
know who Larry King is. You know who Larry King is. Well, the younger folks,

1254
01:18:56,805 –> 01:18:59,525
they know who Larry King is. Google it. He was interesting. Google it. He was

1255
01:18:59,525 –> 01:19:03,365
interesting guy. I think there’s something to

1256
01:19:03,365 –> 01:19:07,060
that theory. So the the the 30 year

1257
01:19:07,060 –> 01:19:09,960
olds are being put in charge. We are trusting them.

1258
01:19:10,500 –> 01:19:13,755
But The people who are being put in charge are

1259
01:19:20,390 –> 01:19:23,930
towards the end of the year, the Double Income No Kids crowd, right,

1260
01:19:24,230 –> 01:19:27,530
who are right. Yeah. Who are, you know,

1261
01:19:28,925 –> 01:19:32,765
running their mouths. Let’s just say that. Yeah. It’s so funny.

1262
01:19:32,765 –> 01:19:35,645
Like, I again, I was talking to one of my kids the other day, and

1263
01:19:35,645 –> 01:19:39,139
we Talking about different like, they’re all all of my kids just for the audience’s

1264
01:19:39,199 –> 01:19:43,040
per reference. My youngest kid is almost

1265
01:19:43,040 –> 01:19:46,275
22. Like, so she’ll be she’ll be 22 in a in a month or 2.

1266
01:19:47,534 –> 01:19:50,835
So all of them and she’s the youngest. So I have kids ranging from 20

1267
01:19:51,630 –> 01:19:55,250
1 to 20 8 to 2029. So

1268
01:19:55,870 –> 01:19:59,715
and none of them have kids, but I when

1269
01:19:59,715 –> 01:20:03,235
I was younger, I had my 1st kid when I was 20, 21 years

1270
01:20:03,235 –> 01:20:06,915
old. Mhmm. So when we were talking over the over this past

1271
01:20:06,915 –> 01:20:10,500
weekend, A few of my kids were home, and we we had a family event.

1272
01:20:10,500 –> 01:20:13,700
So we’re just shooting shooting the breeze, having a couple of drinks, and just chatting,

1273
01:20:13,700 –> 01:20:17,435
you know, whatever. Right? But We were talking about how or they

1274
01:20:17,435 –> 01:20:20,015
were asking me what like, why

1275
01:20:21,195 –> 01:20:24,875
myself like, I I was so much more advanced. To your

1276
01:20:24,875 –> 01:20:28,540
point, I was further along in my career at 25 than they are.

1277
01:20:28,540 –> 01:20:32,380
Like, I I I was I was a a regional vice

1278
01:20:32,380 –> 01:20:36,015
president of sales At, like, 28. Right? Like so

1279
01:20:36,095 –> 01:20:39,055
and my kids are like, I’m not even close to there. What is it? And

1280
01:20:39,055 –> 01:20:42,095
I I said to them, and I I never put I never thought of it

1281
01:20:42,095 –> 01:20:45,770
this way, But I I was like, well, because I had you

1282
01:20:45,770 –> 01:20:49,610
guys to worry about. I had to drive so

1283
01:20:49,610 –> 01:20:53,175
hard To sustain our family, that there was no

1284
01:20:53,175 –> 01:20:56,935
way there was nowhere to put me except for let me move up the

1285
01:20:56,935 –> 01:21:00,750
ladder. Like, I I was so driven to be successful and move up the

1286
01:21:00,750 –> 01:21:04,110
ladder and make more money and because I had you guys to worry about. You

1287
01:21:04,110 –> 01:21:06,995
guys don’t have any kids to worry about, so you care how much money you

1288
01:21:06,995 –> 01:21:10,755
make? It’s like Right. It’s like I can go if

1289
01:21:10,755 –> 01:21:14,595
I can afford that $1,000 a month apartment, then so

1290
01:21:14,595 –> 01:21:18,280
be it. Where for me, the $1,000 a month apartment was

1291
01:21:18,280 –> 01:21:22,120
the baseline, like, baseline, like, that was the the foundation

1292
01:21:22,120 –> 01:21:25,545
of, like, our existence, and then everything above that, I had to go

1293
01:21:25,545 –> 01:21:29,305
fight for to get more, like, more, like, food and a

1294
01:21:29,305 –> 01:21:32,920
car and whatever. Like, I like, it I I was like

1295
01:21:32,960 –> 01:21:36,500
and and to your point, I wasn’t even thinking of it from a maturity level,

1296
01:21:36,880 –> 01:21:40,420
but it absolutely true. I look at myself at 22,

1297
01:21:40,480 –> 01:21:44,195
23 years old, and my kids Now at 23, 24 years old, I’m

1298
01:21:44,195 –> 01:21:47,795
like, that’s a joke. It’s a sorry. I don’t but it’s

1299
01:21:47,795 –> 01:21:51,510
like but it is true. Like, they think of They’re they’re still shooting

1300
01:21:51,890 –> 01:21:55,730
cans off the back porch, for crying out loud. I’m like, I stopped doing that

1301
01:21:55,730 –> 01:21:59,090
when I was 18 17 because I had I had to worry about a kid.

1302
01:21:59,090 –> 01:22:02,855
You know? Like, And and I

1303
01:22:02,855 –> 01:22:06,535
have 5 kids. None of my 5 kids have any

1304
01:22:06,535 –> 01:22:10,330
kids. They’re not even starting yet. So this is

1305
01:22:10,330 –> 01:22:13,870
this is the thing. I think that is the fundamental separation. I think what

1306
01:22:15,165 –> 01:22:18,845
What you’re getting to here is is absolutely critical. I also

1307
01:22:18,845 –> 01:22:22,605
think that this is the tension that you see in the culture,

1308
01:22:22,605 –> 01:22:26,219
right, between people who did that and the

1309
01:22:26,219 –> 01:22:29,980
people who didn’t. And now the people who didn’t are are the

1310
01:22:29,980 –> 01:22:33,500
vast majority of people. So the vast majority of people are now on that other

1311
01:22:33,500 –> 01:22:36,875
side and this is why you have the double income, no kids

1312
01:22:36,875 –> 01:22:40,555
people running around cocking and crowing and beating their

1313
01:22:40,555 –> 01:22:41,055
chests,

1314
01:22:46,870 –> 01:22:50,595
Except What are you gonna do when you’re old? Yeah. My my

1315
01:22:50,595 –> 01:22:53,075
youngest son just said that to me, he’s like, dad, I hope my nieces and

1316
01:22:53,075 –> 01:22:56,275
nephew like me because, I’m not planning on having kids, somebody has to take care

1317
01:22:56,275 –> 01:22:59,330
of me when I’m old. It’s like, good luck, buddy, because I won’t be here.

1318
01:22:59,330 –> 01:23:00,150
I’ll be gone.

1319
01:23:06,185 –> 01:23:09,865
That’s all I have to say to that. Yeah. You know,

1320
01:23:09,865 –> 01:23:12,045
and so that that dynamic

1321
01:23:15,000 –> 01:23:17,880
at a cultural level, I don’t know how we address that. I I don’t I

1322
01:23:17,880 –> 01:23:20,828
don’t know how you even how you even begin to get arms around that. However,

1323
01:23:20,828 –> 01:23:24,615
I The scary the scary piece is this generation thinks that, like, especially younger

1324
01:23:24,615 –> 01:23:27,975
people think that, well, you know, that’s the government’s responsibility to take care of people

1325
01:23:27,975 –> 01:23:31,110
at at that when they get to a certain and that I was like, nah.

1326
01:23:31,110 –> 01:23:34,810
Nah. Don’t don’t bank on that. That is not the case,

1327
01:23:35,270 –> 01:23:38,965
but they do they they do feel that way. Even if you let

1328
01:23:38,965 –> 01:23:42,185
me let me just say a caution, and you can

1329
01:23:42,645 –> 01:23:46,165
clip this and send this to your your your multiple 20 year old

1330
01:23:46,165 –> 01:23:49,980
kids. Even if you vote for a politician that

1331
01:23:49,980 –> 01:23:53,420
can give you all of that, even if you vote for a

1332
01:23:53,420 –> 01:23:56,640
politician that makes policies that you think will give you all that,

1333
01:24:00,065 –> 01:24:03,125
Politicians and policies cannot overcome the laws of nature.

1334
01:24:05,430 –> 01:24:09,190
Alright. That’s it. Those are my 3 sentences. That’s my 3 sentence

1335
01:24:09,270 –> 01:24:13,110
just that’s the wisdom, and I know it won’t be listened to. It’s

1336
01:24:13,110 –> 01:24:16,605
okay. Just be sure that who you’re voting for

1337
01:24:17,245 –> 01:24:19,965
Or it will be listened to, but it’ll be too late. But it’ll be too

1338
01:24:19,965 –> 01:24:23,659
late. It’ll be too late. So, yeah, you gotta get

1339
01:24:23,659 –> 01:24:26,460
out. You gotta hustle. I mean, I always one of the and I’ll I’ll close-up

1340
01:24:26,460 –> 01:24:29,739
by saying this around the quarter here because we we need to close our podcast

1341
01:24:29,739 –> 01:24:33,445
today. But, you know, One of the things that I get run the

1342
01:24:33,445 –> 01:24:36,805
most for on social media when I say it or when I tweet it or

1343
01:24:36,805 –> 01:24:39,365
when I write it or when I post it is, say what you want about

1344
01:24:39,365 –> 01:24:43,130
the baby boomers. They at least got after it. You know? Yeah.

1345
01:24:43,130 –> 01:24:46,890
They might have destroyed x, y, z institutions and a, b, c environment and

1346
01:24:46,890 –> 01:24:50,415
rampant capitalism and consumerism, you know, all of the critiques for the Marxist left.

1347
01:24:50,735 –> 01:24:54,335
And then, of course, the critiques from the current the libertarian right are, they

1348
01:24:54,335 –> 01:24:58,175
destroyed freedom. They voted for all these politicians that that surveilled

1349
01:24:58,175 –> 01:25:02,010
us. They built these big tech surveillance states, blah blah blah. Okay. Yeah. But

1350
01:25:02,010 –> 01:25:04,750
you know what they did? They got after it,

1351
01:25:06,145 –> 01:25:09,905
period. They got after it. They actually decided that

1352
01:25:09,905 –> 01:25:13,510
instead of, to Tom’s point, instead of sitting around and

1353
01:25:13,510 –> 01:25:17,270
hoping that someone in the future would do something. They said,

1354
01:25:17,270 –> 01:25:19,210
no. I’m going to do something right now.

1355
01:25:21,065 –> 01:25:24,825
And by the way, something beyond posting online, which, yes, I know they didn’t

1356
01:25:24,825 –> 01:25:27,405
have that, but even if they had, they probably would have ignored it.

1357
01:25:28,940 –> 01:25:32,460
Something beyond merely making a protest. Right? Like, all those

1358
01:25:32,460 –> 01:25:35,660
protest videos that you see of those people that are running around in the sixties

1359
01:25:35,660 –> 01:25:39,435
seventies, you know what those people became? University professors, and

1360
01:25:39,435 –> 01:25:42,574
eventually, they ran up well, they wound up running the universities.

1361
01:25:43,915 –> 01:25:47,340
They went and did something. A lot of those people went and

1362
01:25:47,340 –> 01:25:51,100
became vice presidents of corporations. They went in, did

1363
01:25:51,100 –> 01:25:54,935
something. They busted their behind to do something, and

1364
01:25:54,935 –> 01:25:58,235
that is the one of the other critical differences.

1365
01:25:58,735 –> 01:26:02,520
So, between past generations, I would say, The the

1366
01:26:02,520 –> 01:26:05,500
generation is now retiring and moving into its, twilight

1367
01:26:06,120 –> 01:26:09,480
and, the current generation of folks that we, that we have

1368
01:26:09,480 –> 01:26:13,205
now in our, in our culture. We’re speaking of which

1369
01:26:14,385 –> 01:26:18,210
back to the book. Back to the

1370
01:26:18,210 –> 01:26:21,889
story. It’s only a couple of couple of paragraphs here at the end of The

1371
01:26:21,889 –> 01:26:25,590
Burglar’s Christmas by Willa Cather. He drew alongside.

1372
01:26:25,730 –> 01:26:29,514
This is, This is William. He drew a long sigh of

1373
01:26:29,514 –> 01:26:32,875
rich content. The old life with all of its

1374
01:26:32,875 –> 01:26:36,650
bitterness and useless antagonism And flimsy sophistries.

1375
01:26:37,350 –> 01:26:41,130
Its brief delights that were always tinged with fear and distrust and unfaith.

1376
01:26:41,350 –> 01:26:44,570
That whole miserable, futile, swindled world of Bohemia

1377
01:26:45,185 –> 01:26:48,625
Seemed immeasurably distant and far away, like a dream that is over and

1378
01:26:48,625 –> 01:26:52,305
done. And as the chimes rang joyfully outside

1379
01:26:52,305 –> 01:26:56,150
and sleep pressed heavily Upon his eyelids, he wondered dimly if

1380
01:26:56,150 –> 01:26:59,190
the author of the sad little riddle of ours were not able to solve it

1381
01:26:59,190 –> 01:27:02,790
after all, and if the potter would not finally meet out all

1382
01:27:02,790 –> 01:27:06,615
his Meet out his all comprehensive justice, such as

1383
01:27:06,615 –> 01:27:10,375
none but he could have, to his things of clay, which are made

1384
01:27:10,375 –> 01:27:13,600
in his own patterns, weak or strong, for his own

1385
01:27:13,780 –> 01:27:17,500
ends. And if someday, we will not awaken and find

1386
01:27:17,500 –> 01:27:21,345
that all evil is a dream, a mental distortion that

1387
01:27:21,345 –> 01:27:24,725
will pass when the dawn shall break.

1388
01:27:30,080 –> 01:27:33,840
We’ve just been talking about this in a different kind of context, but, he

1389
01:27:33,840 –> 01:27:37,675
did live a bohemian life. And that’s, by the way, with Cather, That’s the term

1390
01:27:37,675 –> 01:27:41,515
that was used for somebody who was not having children when they should have been

1391
01:27:41,515 –> 01:27:45,115
having them and was running around doing multiple jobs and Footloose and Fancy Free and

1392
01:27:45,115 –> 01:27:47,960
wound up poor. They used to call that bohemian.

1393
01:27:48,980 –> 01:27:52,739
It wasn’t it wasn’t, it wasn’t I I don’t want you to think of as

1394
01:27:52,739 –> 01:27:56,315
I often do. Don’t want you to think of a person with a man bun,

1395
01:27:56,555 –> 01:27:59,515
drinking a Starbucks. It’s not what I want you to think of when you think

1396
01:27:59,515 –> 01:28:02,975
of Bohemian. I want you to think of what Willa Cather

1397
01:28:03,260 –> 01:28:07,100
is considering. And Tom laughed at that, but that’s that’s it’s this is

1398
01:28:07,100 –> 01:28:10,695
this is the image that I have in my my head. So forgive

1399
01:28:10,695 –> 01:28:13,835
me, for all the people with man buns that I have offended.

1400
01:28:15,735 –> 01:28:19,034
No. Don’t forgive me. You’re not a man bun. You’re ridiculous. Stop. Okay.

1401
01:28:20,890 –> 01:28:23,310
Well, there goes half our audience. Alright. Well alright.

1402
01:28:24,250 –> 01:28:28,090
So, my wife would just say I’m just mad because I’m bald. She would just

1403
01:28:28,090 –> 01:28:30,795
say that. I I I feel your pain. So,

1404
01:28:32,295 –> 01:28:35,915
I get a little more hair than you. Not much. Not much? Not much.

1405
01:28:36,135 –> 01:28:39,070
Not much at all. I know what you’re holding on to there, Tom. But, anyway

1406
01:28:40,329 –> 01:28:43,849
I just bought a new brush. I just get one more one more brush out

1407
01:28:43,849 –> 01:28:47,245
of it. 1 more brush? One more brush? Okay. Okay. Alright. Okay.

1408
01:28:47,245 –> 01:28:47,745
Just

1409
01:28:51,405 –> 01:28:53,105
bald is beautiful, sir. Anyway,

1410
01:28:55,650 –> 01:28:58,309
And you can carry it. You got the head to carry it. You’re fine.

1411
01:28:59,730 –> 01:29:02,949
I believe you. I’ll take your word for it for now.

1412
01:29:04,235 –> 01:29:07,995
Hold on hold on those last messages of hope. It’s the last messages of

1413
01:29:07,995 –> 01:29:11,675
hope. My my significant other said my my wife will I’ll be in there, and

1414
01:29:11,675 –> 01:29:14,330
she’d be like, Are you brushing your 4 hairs again?

1415
01:29:15,990 –> 01:29:18,870
I think there’s a few more than 4. Come on. Got it. Yeah. You got

1416
01:29:18,870 –> 01:29:21,875
a few more than 4. You’re fine. You’re probably fine. Well, what do I care?

1417
01:29:22,115 –> 01:29:25,795
You’re not you’re not bunting it up, like I said, with a Starbucks cup and

1418
01:29:25,795 –> 01:29:29,490
a pair of, like, you know, Tom slippers. Like, you’re not doing that. Like,

1419
01:29:29,490 –> 01:29:33,010
an urban area. And my point is this,

1420
01:29:33,010 –> 01:29:35,590
like, the the the moralistic,

1421
01:29:36,875 –> 01:29:40,555
Midwestern anti bohemian idea comes through here in

1422
01:29:40,555 –> 01:29:44,315
Katharine’s work. And, we already have talked about this a

1423
01:29:44,315 –> 01:29:47,860
little bit, but I wanna make a broader critique or a broader point, not a

1424
01:29:47,860 –> 01:29:51,640
critique of broader point. There is a price to living in society

1425
01:29:51,699 –> 01:29:55,385
with a social structure, but there is also a price to wandering around and

1426
01:29:55,385 –> 01:29:57,645
living a libertine and bohemian style.

1427
01:29:58,905 –> 01:30:02,665
And the idea that you could live a particular lifestyle

1428
01:30:02,665 –> 01:30:05,880
without Consequence didn’t begin in the 19 sixties,

1429
01:30:06,580 –> 01:30:08,900
interestingly enough. It actually began

1430
01:30:10,265 –> 01:30:14,105
Well, it began in the 18 nineties, and it went through cycles before

1431
01:30:14,105 –> 01:30:15,804
it hit its penultimate cycle,

1432
01:30:17,710 –> 01:30:21,550
Probably right around now. We’re probably at the peak of that idea of being

1433
01:30:21,550 –> 01:30:24,985
able to live without consequence. And

1434
01:30:25,445 –> 01:30:29,125
so William is portrayed as having paid the price for living a

1435
01:30:29,125 –> 01:30:32,940
bohemian lifestyle, but he was able, through forgiveness and

1436
01:30:32,940 –> 01:30:36,699
through the miracle of return, to avoid

1437
01:30:36,699 –> 01:30:40,239
the punishment. He was able to kinda slip past that. Right?

1438
01:30:40,495 –> 01:30:44,094
Yeah. He was going to well, he wasn’t gonna engage in

1439
01:30:44,094 –> 01:30:47,715
robbery for his food, but he was able to slip past that and

1440
01:30:47,935 –> 01:30:51,760
move into a mother’s love. By

1441
01:30:51,760 –> 01:30:55,360
the way, his friend was no help to him as he left him

1442
01:30:55,360 –> 01:30:57,619
right at the beginning of the story.

1443
01:31:00,255 –> 01:31:04,014
Gather’s point is that family and home are all you can count on

1444
01:31:04,014 –> 01:31:07,780
in a hard world. And this may ring really weird

1445
01:31:07,780 –> 01:31:11,480
into our tone deaf post or this may ring as tone deaf to our postmodern

1446
01:31:11,540 –> 01:31:14,875
years, but It is definitely

1447
01:31:14,935 –> 01:31:18,554
something that is true, and it’s definitely something

1448
01:31:18,614 –> 01:31:19,435
that is,

1449
01:31:22,150 –> 01:31:25,530
Evident, right, in the ways in which we engage with each other,

1450
01:31:26,150 –> 01:31:28,730
and it’s evident for us as, as leaders.

1451
01:31:30,235 –> 01:31:33,375
So as we round the corner here, I’m gonna

1452
01:31:34,795 –> 01:31:38,460
as we round the corner here, Wanna go

1453
01:31:38,460 –> 01:31:42,220
ahead and, and ask Tom this. How can

1454
01:31:42,220 –> 01:31:45,900
leaders stay on the path with all of this mishmash that we’ve talked about with

1455
01:31:45,900 –> 01:31:48,915
the burglar’s Christmas, this holiday season.

1456
01:31:55,440 –> 01:31:57,840
I was giving you the hard question at the end. It’s the last hard question

1457
01:31:57,840 –> 01:32:00,800
of the year. You’re done. Like, you don’t understand. There’s no more hard questions after

1458
01:32:00,800 –> 01:32:04,324
this. That’s true. Well, the The the next hard questions are coming on the other

1459
01:32:04,324 –> 01:32:08,085
side of the new year. That’s yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I

1460
01:32:08,085 –> 01:32:11,889
think I think there’s I think there’s some I I think there’s a lot more

1461
01:32:11,889 –> 01:32:15,730
I think there’s a lot more question than that. I think it’s a

1462
01:32:15,730 –> 01:32:19,250
much bigger question than that because I think I think as a

1463
01:32:19,250 –> 01:32:22,935
leader I mean, you set the tone and culture of the company. Right?

1464
01:32:22,995 –> 01:32:26,595
So if the tone and if the tone and culture of your company is we

1465
01:32:26,595 –> 01:32:30,260
care about you as an individual person, as a Family person as a, you

1466
01:32:30,260 –> 01:32:33,960
know, we care about what happens to you outside of these 4 walls.

1467
01:32:34,260 –> 01:32:37,880
Yeah. And I think it’s mission critical that

1468
01:32:38,465 –> 01:32:42,085
You you continue that

1469
01:32:42,545 –> 01:32:46,385
feeling and philosophy throughout the the course of of your, you know,

1470
01:32:46,385 –> 01:32:50,080
your Engagement with that employee. Right? But if your if your

1471
01:32:50,080 –> 01:32:53,920
tone and culture of your company is you come here to work, come work, we

1472
01:32:53,920 –> 01:32:57,195
pay you, And then you go home and you’re on your own.

1473
01:32:57,655 –> 01:33:01,495
That, like, I and and and both of those 2 worlds exist, by

1474
01:33:01,495 –> 01:33:05,340
the way. Like, a lot of people think that Every company nowadays

1475
01:33:05,400 –> 01:33:09,000
is warm and fuzzy, and that’s not entirely true. There are plenty of companies out

1476
01:33:09,000 –> 01:33:12,555
there that just think of you as a number and that you have a A

1477
01:33:12,555 –> 01:33:15,035
role to play in that you you go to work and you go home, and

1478
01:33:15,035 –> 01:33:17,355
then when you’re home, you’re on your own time and you do your own thing,

1479
01:33:17,355 –> 01:33:20,830
and, you know, you might have a little bit, You know, in

1480
01:33:21,130 –> 01:33:24,430
in those cases, you might have a little bit of, like,

1481
01:33:24,570 –> 01:33:28,410
a lower management person that that gives a rat’s

1482
01:33:28,410 –> 01:33:32,235
patoot about about you on a personal level. And they build their

1483
01:33:32,235 –> 01:33:35,594
own culture within their team, but that’s not

1484
01:33:35,594 –> 01:33:39,100
necessarily a corporate culture, so it’s still, You know, it still goes

1485
01:33:39,100 –> 01:33:42,860
back to the leader of that smallish group of of people

1486
01:33:42,860 –> 01:33:46,140
that’s this is the culture that we’re gonna have. We’re gonna care about each other.

1487
01:33:46,140 –> 01:33:49,955
We’re gonna do things. But As a corporate culture, it doesn’t always fly.

1488
01:33:50,094 –> 01:33:52,835
I I just think I think there’s I think there’s some,

1489
01:33:56,650 –> 01:34:00,409
And this gets even more difficult too with the the the work from

1490
01:34:00,409 –> 01:34:03,975
home and, like, all this remote remote working thing. We don’t have the

1491
01:34:04,135 –> 01:34:07,815
Talks at the water cooler anymore that people always talk about and and, like or

1492
01:34:07,815 –> 01:34:11,620
you see in some of the past movies and, like, the it’s There’s

1493
01:34:11,620 –> 01:34:14,580
a lot of disconnect. You know, I’ll give you a good

1494
01:34:15,300 –> 01:34:18,840
my my wife works for a very, very large medical,

1495
01:34:19,555 –> 01:34:23,335
company here in the northeast, and she’s a remote worker,

1496
01:34:23,395 –> 01:34:26,695
and they were just talking about a Christmas party. And she went,

1497
01:34:27,380 –> 01:34:31,219
I’m driving all the way there for just for what? To see people that I

1498
01:34:31,219 –> 01:34:34,179
don’t even see on a regular basis? Like, we’re all remote. I don’t know these

1499
01:34:34,179 –> 01:34:38,005
people. I don’t know them. I have no interest in going and hanging out with

1500
01:34:38,005 –> 01:34:41,525
people I don’t know. And they all work for the same company. Right? Like,

1501
01:34:41,525 –> 01:34:45,125
so and that’s the culture that they set. They like, they they’ve

1502
01:34:45,125 –> 01:34:48,320
given that that Culture power. Like, they’ve given that that

1503
01:34:48,560 –> 01:34:52,320
so to have lack of participation in a holiday party is their own damn

1504
01:34:52,320 –> 01:34:56,015
fault. Right. Yeah. No. You’re right. Right? So, like,

1505
01:34:56,155 –> 01:34:59,755
I think I think it I think it starts with forget about how

1506
01:34:59,755 –> 01:35:02,875
you interact or what you do is on a day to day like, it’s not

1507
01:35:02,875 –> 01:35:06,670
about your actions and And and interactions on a on a on

1508
01:35:06,670 –> 01:35:10,230
a 1 on 1 level. I think for leaders, it’s more about the

1509
01:35:10,230 –> 01:35:13,795
the the tone and culture that we set for the company And making sure that

1510
01:35:13,795 –> 01:35:17,635
we are consistent with that tone and culture, making sure that we

1511
01:35:18,034 –> 01:35:21,155
if we have an open door policy, make sure you keep an open door policy.

1512
01:35:21,155 –> 01:35:24,920
Don’t Don’t shy away from hard conversations and don’t, like you gotta, you

1513
01:35:24,920 –> 01:35:27,880
know, make sure that you practice what you preach and then talk, you know, walk

1514
01:35:27,880 –> 01:35:31,425
the walk, talk the talk, all that stuff, all those All those stupid

1515
01:35:31,425 –> 01:35:35,105
cliches that we never understood how it works, this is how it works. Like, this

1516
01:35:35,105 –> 01:35:37,505
is how it works? This is the point of it. Like, this is the point

1517
01:35:37,505 –> 01:35:40,860
of all of those cliches that That you gotta, you know, you have to make

1518
01:35:40,860 –> 01:35:44,460
sure that, you know, that you’re and that there’s,

1519
01:35:44,460 –> 01:35:48,219
like, you know, you’re setting people up for success, and I’m not talking about their

1520
01:35:48,219 –> 01:35:51,845
own Success is like, if I wanna be a millionaire, I’m gonna go work

1521
01:35:51,845 –> 01:35:55,445
for company a, and they’re gonna make me a millionaire. That’s not what I

1522
01:35:55,445 –> 01:35:58,490
mean. We were talking, earlier today. I was talking about,

1523
01:35:59,110 –> 01:36:02,870
with a couple of, Hae Sung and I’s mutual friends or colleagues.

1524
01:36:02,870 –> 01:36:06,255
I’m not sure what you call the growth craft advisers, but We’ll just call them

1525
01:36:06,255 –> 01:36:09,855
friends for this purpose. And we were talking about definitions of

1526
01:36:09,855 –> 01:36:13,375
success and what it looks like, and it it is a very

1527
01:36:13,375 –> 01:36:16,860
personalized thing. Your definition of success and my definition of

1528
01:36:16,860 –> 01:36:20,460
success may be completely different. 1 person may think, you

1529
01:36:20,460 –> 01:36:24,305
know, having Ending their life with 1,000,000 and 1,000,000

1530
01:36:24,305 –> 01:36:28,145
and 1,000,000 of dollars is the definition of success. Another person may think the

1531
01:36:28,145 –> 01:36:31,360
definition of success is When I die, there’s

1532
01:36:32,860 –> 01:36:36,380
tons and tons of people at my funeral praising how much of a good person

1533
01:36:36,380 –> 01:36:39,445
I was. Had nothing to do with my wealth, and I have more to do

1534
01:36:39,445 –> 01:36:42,665
with my person and and who I am and what and how

1535
01:36:43,125 –> 01:36:46,920
my Close knit society or or or

1536
01:36:46,920 –> 01:36:50,520
or, you know, people view me Mhmm. Is my definition of

1537
01:36:50,520 –> 01:36:54,304
success. So If you really wanna be a truly good leader, I

1538
01:36:54,304 –> 01:36:57,684
think that’s the biggest part of it is is really identifying

1539
01:36:59,320 –> 01:37:03,080
People as individuals, and then have a collective being able to have a

1540
01:37:03,080 –> 01:37:06,875
collective tone and culture of your company. I think

1541
01:37:06,875 –> 01:37:09,775
that that requires, introspection.

1542
01:37:11,675 –> 01:37:15,115
And and, yes, introspection, as I mentioned as we’ve mentioned repeatedly

1543
01:37:15,115 –> 01:37:18,830
today, is, is an arrow that points backward, but I also

1544
01:37:18,830 –> 01:37:21,870
think it requires goal setting, which is the arrow that points forward. And we talked

1545
01:37:21,870 –> 01:37:25,335
about goal setting, and we kinda I will say we mocked it, but we

1546
01:37:25,335 –> 01:37:29,015
definitely sort of talked about how people fail, you know, at goal

1547
01:37:29,015 –> 01:37:32,455
setting. I I think the reason people fail at goal setting is because they haven’t

1548
01:37:32,455 –> 01:37:36,120
merged that introspection, that introspection and that goal setting successfully together. There’s still too much

1549
01:37:36,120 –> 01:37:39,719
friction between those 2 those 2 areas. Plus, there’s a lack of

1550
01:37:39,719 –> 01:37:43,344
realization of what your priority should be. Right? And so I would encourage

1551
01:37:43,344 –> 01:37:47,185
folks when you get into introspection as a in a leadership position, or

1552
01:37:47,185 –> 01:37:50,840
when you’re introspective as a leader, to figure out what you want to be

1553
01:37:50,840 –> 01:37:54,680
introspective about. Do you wanna be introspective about culture? Do you

1554
01:37:54,680 –> 01:37:58,465
wanna be introspective about success? Do you wanna be introspective about, the

1555
01:37:58,465 –> 01:38:02,065
goals that you wanna see your team accomplish. What do you want to be

1556
01:38:02,065 –> 01:38:05,639
introspective about? There’s also this

1557
01:38:05,639 –> 01:38:09,320
idea of return. Right? Forgiveness, reconciliation. We talked a little bit about

1558
01:38:09,320 –> 01:38:12,760
this. Forgiveness has to be more than just a set of PR words for your

1559
01:38:12,760 –> 01:38:16,245
little your your lawyer or your legal firm. They actually have to mean something. And

1560
01:38:16,245 –> 01:38:20,085
by the way, if you’re not actually sorry, don’t say you are. Yeah.

1561
01:38:20,085 –> 01:38:23,659
Right. Really don’t. Don’t don’t say you are. We actually will

1562
01:38:23,659 –> 01:38:27,020
appreciate it more if you don’t say you are. Now I’m not talking about,

1563
01:38:27,020 –> 01:38:30,175
you know, sort of the big brands who have

1564
01:38:30,555 –> 01:38:34,395
400 lawyers and 300 PR people and all that. That’s a different kind of thing.

1565
01:38:34,395 –> 01:38:38,210
I’m talking The small and medium sized organizations who are definitely embedded

1566
01:38:38,210 –> 01:38:42,050
in the community where the transparency of what it is you’re

1567
01:38:42,050 –> 01:38:45,445
doing can be seen by everybody and the immediacy of that can be

1568
01:38:45,445 –> 01:38:49,284
felt. Really think critically about

1569
01:38:49,284 –> 01:38:53,125
what apologizing actually means if you have done something wrong. And if you haven’t or

1570
01:38:53,125 –> 01:38:56,230
you don’t believe you have, What are your introspective

1571
01:38:56,929 –> 01:39:00,469
explanations for why you chose the path

1572
01:39:00,610 –> 01:39:04,455
that you chose? I actually saw this recently in my own life from

1573
01:39:04,455 –> 01:39:07,675
a local leader, who said something

1574
01:39:08,295 –> 01:39:12,055
from a stage, got a bunch of people’s ruffles ruffles feathered, and, yes, I

1575
01:39:12,055 –> 01:39:15,800
did say ruffles feathered, on Facebook. And, then came

1576
01:39:15,800 –> 01:39:18,220
back the next week and didn’t apologize,

1577
01:39:19,800 –> 01:39:22,585
explained, Moved on.

1578
01:39:24,485 –> 01:39:28,165
I thought that was an interesting move. Very interesting. And he

1579
01:39:28,165 –> 01:39:31,630
didn’t need Fifty lawyers and 40 PR agencies to

1580
01:39:31,630 –> 01:39:34,530
figure out how to do that. He just needed to be

1581
01:39:35,230 –> 01:39:38,945
connected to his community and connected to the people that

1582
01:39:38,945 –> 01:39:40,805
he was making the message towards.

1583
01:39:43,025 –> 01:39:45,665
I also think that we can get from the burglar’s Christmas kind of what we

1584
01:39:45,665 –> 01:39:48,840
call what we talked about a little bit at the end. There’s trade offs and

1585
01:39:48,840 –> 01:39:52,440
costs when we do things. The the great economist, Thomas

1586
01:39:52,440 –> 01:39:56,120
Sowell, who hopefully will be around with us for

1587
01:39:56,120 –> 01:39:59,815
another year. But the great economist Thomas Sowell once

1588
01:39:59,815 –> 01:40:03,335
said that, life is full of trade

1589
01:40:03,335 –> 01:40:06,250
offs, Some of which are brutal

1590
01:40:06,870 –> 01:40:10,630
because we live in a world of limited resources, limited time, limited

1591
01:40:10,630 –> 01:40:14,010
money, limited attention, limited emotional engagement,

1592
01:40:14,395 –> 01:40:17,375
Limited care, limited everything. Everything is limited.

1593
01:40:18,875 –> 01:40:22,074
Even our lives are limited, and so we have to make trade offs. Well, trade

1594
01:40:22,074 –> 01:40:25,310
offs come with trade offs come with

1595
01:40:26,170 –> 01:40:29,770
results, and we have to be clear about what the results are. I think

1596
01:40:29,770 –> 01:40:32,495
leaders have to be clear about what the results of the trade offs are and

1597
01:40:32,495 –> 01:40:36,335
the results of the decisions that they’re making, and be clear to their

1598
01:40:36,335 –> 01:40:39,614
team members, be clear to their followers, be clear to everybody. Look. If we make

1599
01:40:39,614 –> 01:40:43,360
this decision, this is what the consequence is going to be potentially. Or in

1600
01:40:43,360 –> 01:40:47,120
this trade off, there were no great decisions. There

1601
01:40:47,120 –> 01:40:49,060
was just the best of all the bad ones.

1602
01:40:51,344 –> 01:40:54,784
And that’s usually, by the way, 99% of the time, it’s the best of all

1603
01:40:54,784 –> 01:40:58,500
the bad decisions. There is no, I think of the line from Armageddon.

1604
01:40:58,560 –> 01:41:01,840
There is no good plan, mister president. This is the best of all the bad

1605
01:41:01,840 –> 01:41:02,340
ones.

1606
01:41:05,895 –> 01:41:09,655
And and that’s that’s the reality of leadership. That’s the reality

1607
01:41:09,655 –> 01:41:13,255
of trade offs, and we need to wrap our arms, I think, around that

1608
01:41:13,255 –> 01:41:16,540
reality. Finally, humor.

1609
01:41:17,000 –> 01:41:20,440
Like, you gotta laugh. You gotta not take yourself so so

1610
01:41:20,440 –> 01:41:24,125
seriously. You know, we’ve we’ve laughed a little bit on this

1611
01:41:24,125 –> 01:41:27,804
podcast and and quite frankly, this year, we’ve had a great time, hanging out

1612
01:41:27,804 –> 01:41:31,430
with Tom and Getting to know him better, and, hopefully, you

1613
01:41:31,430 –> 01:41:35,110
all listening have gotten to know him better as well. Tom will be back

1614
01:41:35,110 –> 01:41:38,905
next year, next season, for the 3rd

1615
01:41:38,905 –> 01:41:42,425
season. I can’t believe I’m saying that. For the 3rd

1616
01:41:42,425 –> 01:41:45,785
season of the leadership lessons from the great books podcast. So we’ll be back with

1617
01:41:45,785 –> 01:41:49,540
more great books that may maybe Tom has read, maybe Tom

1618
01:41:49,540 –> 01:41:53,219
has not read. At least you will have read the synopsis of them. And,

1619
01:41:53,620 –> 01:41:57,255
he will he will give us his Fresh insights

1620
01:41:57,255 –> 01:42:00,955
and fresh takes because this is good because, see, he comes to the game,

1621
01:42:02,055 –> 01:42:05,889
almost like virgin snow. Right? And, you know, kind of walking

1622
01:42:05,889 –> 01:42:09,570
forth and putting his footprints there putting his footprint out there

1623
01:42:09,570 –> 01:42:13,375
for for for the benefit of of of of us and for the

1624
01:42:13,375 –> 01:42:17,215
benefit of myself. And so I appreciate Tom’s insights and the ways in

1625
01:42:17,215 –> 01:42:20,335
which he frames things, and it gets me to go, I would not have thought

1626
01:42:20,335 –> 01:42:24,080
about it that way. So, I want to express

1627
01:42:24,080 –> 01:42:27,219
my gratitude. Look what I did there. See what I did there?

1628
01:42:29,199 –> 01:42:32,385
To Tom Libby for joining me on the podcast this year. Thank you, Tom.

1629
01:42:32,864 –> 01:42:36,385
So it’s been my pleasure. And vice versa, by the way. I I I find

1630
01:42:36,385 –> 01:42:40,224
it, fascinating, you know, to listen to your insights

1631
01:42:40,224 –> 01:42:43,710
and how you you Explain certain things. And I I mean,

1632
01:42:43,850 –> 01:42:47,450
I find it even more it I I find it interesting sometimes

1633
01:42:47,450 –> 01:42:51,255
how, like, we’ll agree, but The way that

1634
01:42:51,255 –> 01:42:54,695
we get there is different, which I find also very fascinating. Like,

1635
01:42:54,695 –> 01:42:58,455
so, you know, we don’t have an awful lot of, like, you

1636
01:42:58,455 –> 01:43:01,710
know, Argumentative kind of, you know,

1637
01:43:02,090 –> 01:43:05,690
discontent on the on, you know, when we’re on together, so I I do like

1638
01:43:05,690 –> 01:43:09,371
that too. Although, I’m sure there’s value to that. I’m just saying that, you know,

1639
01:43:09,371 –> 01:43:13,105
for me, I think that, you know, being, approaching things from a a bit more,

1640
01:43:15,025 –> 01:43:18,800
of a lightheartedness and And being able to, you know, a bit

1641
01:43:18,800 –> 01:43:22,640
more accepting of opinions and being able to understand and, like,

1642
01:43:22,640 –> 01:43:26,265
that stuff is is is it’s important. It’s important to me, and so I

1643
01:43:26,265 –> 01:43:29,545
I again, and that’s kind of my leadership style too if you haven’t figured it

1644
01:43:29,545 –> 01:43:33,370
out. Like, I just you know, when I run teams and such, I I care

1645
01:43:33,370 –> 01:43:37,130
about people. I genuinely care about people that work for me. I genuinely care about

1646
01:43:37,130 –> 01:43:40,890
their families. I genuinely want them to to succeed. Whatever their

1647
01:43:40,890 –> 01:43:44,655
definition of success Is go it it turns into my definition of

1648
01:43:44,655 –> 01:43:48,175
success for them, so I don’t try to instill my ideas or

1649
01:43:48,175 –> 01:43:51,535
ideals or anything onto anybody else, and I think that that

1650
01:43:51,535 –> 01:43:55,119
has Has, you know, been successful for me. I’ve

1651
01:43:55,119 –> 01:43:58,900
I’ve I’ve run some very good teams. I’ve had some awesome people work for me,

1652
01:43:58,960 –> 01:44:02,005
and I’ve got, you know and and again, and then being on this podcast and

1653
01:44:02,085 –> 01:44:05,925
Seeing how some of that experience can kinda come through, and and if

1654
01:44:05,925 –> 01:44:09,625
I can help 1 person, I’m a happy guy. Like, if there’s 1 person listening

1655
01:44:09,764 –> 01:44:13,380
to this podcast, and they hear something that I say that gives them an epip

1656
01:44:13,460 –> 01:44:17,139
some sort of epiphany or some sort of, like, light bulb goes off and they

1657
01:44:17,139 –> 01:44:20,645
realize that They could you know, that it just helped them in some way. I

1658
01:44:20,645 –> 01:44:24,405
I think that that’s that’s fantastic. It makes me a very happy happy person, so

1659
01:44:24,405 –> 01:44:28,199
I’ll I’ll continue to do as long as you invite me back. Awesome. Well, we’re

1660
01:44:28,199 –> 01:44:31,960
inviting you back next year. So, let’s, let’s as we usually do, let’s go 1

1661
01:44:31,960 –> 01:44:34,840
book at a time, 1 week at a time, 1 month at a time. Let’s

1662
01:44:34,840 –> 01:44:38,485
see where we wind up at. And so, from all of us here at the

1663
01:44:38,485 –> 01:44:42,325
Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, thank you very much for your

1664
01:44:42,325 –> 01:44:42,825
ears,

1665
01:44:47,190 –> 01:44:50,010
and, well, we’re out.