Leadership Lessons From The Great Books #75 – The Hobbit, or There and Back Again by J. R. R. Tolkien w/Ryan J. Stout

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the leadership

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lessons from the great book’s podcast. Episode

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number 75. It’s our 75th birthday

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in chronological order if you’re following a longer scoring at

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home, which if you are scoring at home, god bless you. With our

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book today, The inspiration

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for movies, play, short films, and even a deep inspiration

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for other books within its own genre. This

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book stands as the opener to our month long exploration

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of what science fiction and fantasy literature can teach us about leadership

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in life. The hobbit or

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there and back again by jrrtolkien.

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And, we’re gonna take this book on today with our returning guest

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co host from, episode number 57

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where we covered the tragedy of Othello. And

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where we talked about all things William Shakespeare, Ryan

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J Stout. Say hello, Ryan. Hello,

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everyone. Hello, Ryan. Thank you for having me

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on as usual. It is gonna be a great day, and

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we’re going to, we’re gonna take a little bit of a journey here.

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And we’re going to, Well, we’re going to start off by

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going to an unexpected party.

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Featuring long bottle leaf. By the

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way, I’ll have the long bottle of leaf. He’s smoking.

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Chapter 1 from the Hobbit, by JRR,

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Tolken, an unexpected party.

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In a hole in the ground, there lived a hobbit, not a nasty dirty wet

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hole filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry

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bear sandy hole with nothing in it sit down on or to

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eat. It was a hobbit hole, and that means comfort.

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And at a perfectly round door, like a port hole painted green, with a shiny

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yellow brass knob in the exact middle. The door opened onto

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a tube shaped all like a tunnel, a very comfortable tunnel without

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smoke with paneled walls, floors, tiled, and carpeted, provided with polished

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chairs and lots and lots of pegs for hats and coats. The hobbit was

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fond of visitors. The tunnel wound on and on going

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fairly, but not quite straight into the side of the hill. The hill,

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as all the people from many miles round called it, and many little round doors

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opened out of it first on one side and then on the on another. No

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going upstairs for the hobbit, bedroom, cellars, pantries, lots

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of these, wardrobes. He had whole rooms devoted to clothes.

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Kitchen’s dining rooms all were on the same floor and, indeed, on the same passage.

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The best rooms were all on the left hand side going in. For these, we’re

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the only ones to have windows, deep set round windows looking over his garden

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and meadows beyond sloping down to the river.

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This Hobbit was a very well-to-do Hobbit, and his name was Baggins.

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The Bagginses had lived in the neighborhood of the hill for time out of mind,

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and people considered them very respectable, not only because most of them were

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rich, but because they also never had any adventures or did

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anything unexpected. You could tell what a Baggins would say

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on any question without the bother of asking him.

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This is a story of how Baggins had an adventure and found himself doing and

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saying things altogether unexpected. He may have lost the neighbor’s respect,

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but he gained Well, he will see whether he gained

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anything in the end.

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The mother of our particular hobbit, what is a hobbit? I suppose Hobbits

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need some description nowadays since they have become rare and shy of the big people

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as they call us. They are or were a little people about half our height

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and smaller than the bearded dwarves. Hobbits have no beards. There’s little or

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no magic about them except the ordinary everyday sort, which helps them to disappear

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quietly and quickly when large stupid folk like you and me come blundering

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along. Making a noise like elephants, which they could hear a mile off.

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They are inclined to be fat in the stomach. They dress in bright colors, chiefly

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green and yellow suaron no shoes because their feet grow now actually leathery

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and thick, warm brown hair, like the stuff on their heads, which is curly,

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have long clever brown frickers, good natured faces, and laugh, deep, fruity laugh.

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Especially after dinner, which they have twice a day when they can get

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it. Now you know enough to go on with. As I was

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saying, the mother of this Hobbit of Bilbo Bag that is was the fabulous

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Belladonna took, 1 of the 3 remarkable daughters of the old took, head

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of the hobbits who lived across the water, a small river that ran at the

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foot of the hill. It was often said in other families that long

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ago, one of the took ancestors must have taken a ferry wife.

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That was, of course, absurd, but certainly, there was still something not entirely a hobbit

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like about them, and once in a while, members of the took clan would go

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and have adventures. They discreetly disappeared, and the family hushed it

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up. But the fact remained that the tooks were not as respectable as the

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Bagginses, although they were undoubtedly richer.

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Not that Bella Donna took ever had any adventures after she became Missus Bungo

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Baggins. Bungo, that was Bill’s father, built the most luxurious hobbit

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hole for her, and partly with her money. That was to be found either

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under the hill or over the hill or across the water,

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and there they remained to the end of their days. Still it is

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probable that Bilbo, her only son, although he looked and behaved exactly like a

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second edition of his solid and comfortable father, something a bit queer in his

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makeup from the took side, something that only waited for a chance to come

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out. The chance never arrived until Bill Boggins was

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grown up being about fifty years old or so and living in the beautiful

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hobbit hole built by his father, which I have just described for you until he

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had, in fact, apparently settled down imovably.

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By some curious chance, one morning long ago, in the quiet of the world, when

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there was less noise and more green, And the harvests were still numerous and

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prosperous, and Bilbo Baggins was standing at his door after breakfast, smoking in

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a normal, long, wooden pipe reached nearly down to his woolly

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toes neatly brushed. Gandalf came by. Gandalf.

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If you had heard only a quarter of what I heard about him, and I’ve

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only heard very little of all there is to hear. You would prepared you would

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be prepared for any sort of remarkable tale. Tails and adventures sprouted up

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all over the place wherever he went in most extraordinary fashion,

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he had not been down that way under the hill for ages and

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ages, not since his friend, the old took, died.

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In fact, and the hobbits had almost forgotten what he looked

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like. He had been away over the hill. And across

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the water, on business of his own since they were

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all small, Hobbit Boys, and Hobbit

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Girls.

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John Ronald Real Tolkien. Born January 18

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92 and died September 1973, only a couple of days before this

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recording. Was the author of works of fiction

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that would come to be regarded in time as high fantasy and would

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serve to stand as the platinum standard of fantasy

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writing in the 20th century and well into, and I believe will stand for the

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remainder of the 21st

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century. After serving against his

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will in the trenches of World War 1, most notably at the Battle of

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Psalm, He moved into a professorship from 1925

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to 1945 as the Rawlinson and Bosworth professor of

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Anglo Saxon at a fellow of Pembroke College, both

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at the University of Oxford. A J R R Tolken was

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an Oxford man. Which means he was a

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British man, with class. Now

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Tolkien was a close friend of the Christian apologist

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who used to be an atheist, CS Lewis, and was a

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co member of the informal literary discussion group, the inklings, Now CS

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Lewis wrote the abolition of man, which we cover on episode number

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61 of this podcast. I would encourage you to go back and listen to that

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episode. Lewis took a little bit of a different view of

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his experiences in World War 1 than Tolkien, but much

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like Tommy Lee Jones said, in no country for world men, And I’ve mentioned this

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before on the podcast. Tolkien and Lewis both saw

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the same things, and they both came to similar conclusions.

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About human nature, about warfare,

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and about the transcendent. Now tolkien’s

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academic career and his literary production were deeply influenced by his

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studies in language and philology. Curiously enough similar

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to Nisha. He specialized in English Biology at the

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University of Ox at Oxford University. Sorry. And in 1915,

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he graduated with old Norse as his special subject. And

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so language, location, geography, all come together in

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not only the hobbit, but also subsequent books, which we will cover this month on

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the podcast, the the trilogy that

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you all know and love,

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the lord of the rings. Now according to the

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New York Times obituary, following his death in 1973,

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quote, Tolkien never expected his stories to become popular, but by sheer accident, a book

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called The Hobbit, which he had written some

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years before for his own children came in 1936 to

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the attention of Susan Dagnall, an employee of the London publishing firm,

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Georgia Allen and Unwind. Who persuaded Tolkien to submit it for

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publication. And after that, it was off to the

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races. The Hobbit, of course, gave birth

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to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. He gave birth to the Silmarillion, and

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he gave birth to the entire Well, the entire

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thing that has folded out over the course

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of the 20th century. Matter of fact, many

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times in the 19 sixties, 19 seventies, and even into the 19 eighties in

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the in the subterranean

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train stations in the subways of New York City, you

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would see the, the graffiti that would say Frodo

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Lives. So

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I can’t think of anybody better to talk to about the nature

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of habits and the nature of heroism and

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the nature of getting out on the road than the man who even

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discussed with us on the road. Then,

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then then my good friend Ryan Stoutts. So, Ryan, kinda

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introduced Mister Bill Bo Baggins there

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to the, to the listeners. And,

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of course, we live, you know, 20 years after

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Lord of the Rings trilogy films came out from New Line Cinema.

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Books that quite frankly up to that point, I thought were unfilmable.

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I literally thought they could not be turned into cinema.

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Or if they were going to be turned into cinema, they would only work

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as animation. Right? Like, the it couldn’t work any other way. And Peter Jackson, of

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course, proved me wrong, and the country of New Zealand proved me wrong. Alright.

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Well, so I wanna ask this question

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to start. Have we just read too much of talking already?

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It’s amazing, as we’re doing that awesome introduction

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and, and that excellent.

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Oh, kind of a lot of things are are popping in. And,

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you know, I took it. It’s funny. I started to take

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notes yesterday, and it, like, turns into an essay. And I was like, I

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don’t know if this is,

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so it got me looking into the abolition

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of that. The the, pogs as

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a norm. Mhmm. And

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the learner is incapable of learning more.

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And so talking

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writes about the mean in fact, your description of Bilbo right

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out of the gate Tolkien’s description of bubble right out of the gate

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sets the premise for the whole thing. It does. And he

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is so He has a growth mindset.

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He needs to be sort of convinced and jarred a little bit, but once he

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is, he’s kind of all in. There’s some reticence along the way, and, of

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course, because of, you know, things are difficult or whatever. But, you

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know, I think that is, I

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think people see that, and they can relate to that. I know

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that Tolkien was very specific in saying that he is like, it’s not

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allegorical. And it

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doesn’t need to be because the characters are rich. I looked

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at Tolkien people may scoff at this, but I

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mean, in sort of in what I don’t wanna say what they represent, but

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the value that they potentially have in one’s life okay, kind

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of like the Bible. It’s there. It’s reliable. The stories

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are great, and there’s a lot of wisdom that could be sort

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of gained out of it. And it’s it’s timeless

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when it comes to that. And I don’t think I don’t think people are

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similarly to the Bible, which I think they’ve sold a few copies of that book

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similar to, like, it’s you can pick it up and almost flip through and get

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to any scene, and you’re gonna have some information that has the

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ability to sort of enhance your life on sublevel because

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there is there is some there is there’s it’s so relatable.

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So that’s and I also kind of went into

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well, it’s also supporting that is we’re kind of in, that’s 19th

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20th century literature. We’re kind of in,

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contemporary. We’re in the contemporary state or or contemporary

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period of of of literature, but there’s there’s also this, like, post

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modern contemporary literature. And if you look at, like, dangeliskis,

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like House of Leeds, where there’s 3 storylines, and the book has actually

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textured. And, it and and also books like,

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like, Maggie Nelson’s Blueettes,

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which is a book of,

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kind of like, segmented paragraphs that kind of that loosely tell a story,

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but it’s more to kind of like evoke a feeling and and it taken more

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than what’s actually written on the page. It’s it’s kind of like a full experience.

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Those books, that style, that format, it there’s they’re kind of

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like mirroring the social schizophrenia that has come out

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of It’s kind of like media consumption. And the and

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and I started to think about how authors from the 19th 20th

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century literature and modern day offers, authors, for

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the most part, have lived very, very, very different lifestyles.

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And mainly, the main point is so the main,

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difference is that most, if not

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all, contemporary American authors

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have, a a black oblast

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machine in their pocket that knows everything forever.

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And when you have that kind of, like, power or

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or or access to information. I think I

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think that and I I don’t say the socialist schizophrenia as

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a a a disparaging term. I think that’s

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how humans have had to evolve to to deal with the the

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amount of information. I I think it’s if we didn’t evolve if we don’t evolve

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with it, then it will, like, you know, other things will consume

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us. So I think it’s grounding, and I don’t

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think and I just he there he sold talking to

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sold enough books to give one person who lives in America and

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Europe one book. 600 over 600,000,000.

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So okay. A couple of things there. So

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We read. We don’t I’m aware of contemporary

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authors. I wouldn’t be doing my job if I were

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Right? But on this podcast, we tend to read

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authors from 17th 18th 19th 20th

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century. We tend to we tend to stay in that sort of That’s sort of

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range. Because I think there’s some value in

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the long slog of the enlightenment. And I

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don’t necessarily mean from a philosophical perspective, although there is

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much value to be gained there. I believe

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that the almost 400 year slog

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of the enlightenment has given, no, has

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provided treasures that we have not fully mined. Because

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we look at it as past say. We view it as past say because

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of that that rectangular obelisk or that square

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obelisk in some case in our pockets.

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And so when we talk about them

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living different lives, I I absolutely agree.

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So how do we take? And this is one of the struggles of this podcast.

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This is one of the massive struggles. How do we take? Not necessarily just

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the lessons because we’ve started with the lessons because I think there are lessons, and

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I and we’ll talk about leadership in a minute here. There are lessons that we

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can take from these books. That apply because human nature fundamentally, I

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don’t believe shifts regardless of the technology. We’re

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still going to have you talked about the Bible. We’re still gonna have greed

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and lust and, and murder and

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talking bad about people. Like, they were doing that back at biblical times.

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They were doing that in 17th century. They’re doing it right now.

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On my block somewhere, and they’re gonna be doing it 300 years from now. Like,

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those things don’t change. Right? That’s that’s the core parts of human nature. The arrogance

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of our time is because we have that in our pocket, we think that

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we’ve somehow changed human nature. And the tragedy

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is we haven’t. So so the struggle of this podcast is to is to

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sort of pull those lessons about how to deal with that, how to navigate that,

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how do you even conceptualize it for people who maybe

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you’re looking for something more than what they can get from just the Internet. The

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Hobbit speaks to, actually, tolkien, all tolkien’s writing, but typically the hop it

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speaks to some of that. Right?

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Yeah. I mean,

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Tolkien said he didn’t expect this to get published. Right.

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Was his intention? His intention was to entertain his children.

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Was, like, a very pure.

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And and and I don’t know, sort of, like, it seems like a very

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careful and love field. And I I don’t

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and and and, yeah, you’re right. It’s it’s a fine line. How do you tease

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out and how do you say modern, sort of intentions,

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don’t have, don’t mirror that.

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In in the sense of Restate restate the question.

295
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So the hobbit, when we

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look at the hobbit, there are universal thieves inside of the hobbit.

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And we’ll explore a few of them today. But the biggest one, and and it

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is one that we will talk about probably extensively, is this idea of

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getting out of your comfort zone and going on adventure, but then

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being able to face the dragon of the adventure, and in some cases, the

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literal dragon guarding the gold. And, and being

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able to take that back and being able to reintegrate that into your

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life. This is almost Joseph Campbell you

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know, you know, story of myth here with a

305
00:19:52.855 –> 00:19:56.455
1000 faces kind of stuff. Right? Carl Youngy and, you

306
00:19:56.455 –> 00:19:59.500
know, the the Youngy and Journey of Personality. Right?

307
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How do we reach into the hobbit and pull that pull

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that message out? How do we pull those themes out for folks?

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Who quite frankly are probably going to want it

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going to want it in a tweet, you know, or in a TikTok

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video. The

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yeah. It’s it’s a lot of yeah. Okay. I see the

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00:20:24.010 –> 00:20:27.775
conundrum. Yeah. It’s how yeah. You because it’s a fun it’s a

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lot out of it. It’s like fundamental, how do you fundamentally

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shift how people receive information or can even

316
00:20:35.120 –> 00:20:38.720
receive information. Some people probably don’t even know they can read. And I don’t mean

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that in a in a negative way. It’s just It probably

318
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doesn’t. It’s it’s, you know, it it

319
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probably a lot of people reading really doesn’t even enter their daily activities.

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Right. And so there’s this there’s this sort of, like, inherent

321
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or, like you said, it’s a 1 or 2 or a tweet.

322
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I think, like, for rereading this or reading

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this and how little things, like, when he’s

324
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talking about, like, what the

325
00:21:11.600 –> 00:21:15.400
the cram is. Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Well,

326
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it’s there are these

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Wreath, there’s a sense or 2 peppered throughout the entire

328
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book that make it feel conversational.

329
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Mhmm. And he even says it what when when I laugh at you, he’s like,

330
00:21:30.850 –> 00:21:33.110
he he kinda breaks the 4th wall.

331
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See if it, you know, how it turns out for him. And there’s this playfulness.

332
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And so, I mean, how to

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I mean, it’s it’s it’s isn’t it the it’s kind of like why all art

334
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is suffering? Or, I mean, the theater is suffering.

335
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Or, you know, it it’s because we’ve we’ve,

336
00:21:56.174 –> 00:21:57.875
as a society, devalued

337
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anything that’s not transactional.

338
00:22:05.039 –> 00:22:08.880
Or or or or has utility? Yeah. Or has

339
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immediate utility. Yeah. And so it’s I mean,

340
00:22:12.625 –> 00:22:15.985
how do you, you know, it’s 600,000,000 coffees

341
00:22:15.985 –> 00:22:19.365
over almost, you know, like, 70 years.

342
00:22:20.065 –> 00:22:23.890
It’s like that that Do you is that

343
00:22:23.890 –> 00:22:27.190
enough evidence, but no one really cares about evidence anymore?

344
00:22:27.730 –> 00:22:31.544
Right. There’s so so it can have a tremendous I

345
00:22:31.544 –> 00:22:35.225
was talking with a friend last night, like, that’s so getting a

346
00:22:35.225 –> 00:22:39.009
job in a post COVID world has been, bananas. Bring

347
00:22:39.009 –> 00:22:42.529
into bars. Hey. Here’s my resume, which and people were like, yeah. I don’t

348
00:22:42.529 –> 00:22:46.370
care. You know, it’s this this the I’m gonna take

349
00:22:46.370 –> 00:22:50.115
the the I’m gonna hire the the hot girl. People being

350
00:22:50.115 –> 00:22:53.795
like, telling you that. Like, I don’t care

351
00:22:53.795 –> 00:22:57.475
about your accomplishments. I’m gonna hire the hot girl. And you’re

352
00:22:57.475 –> 00:23:01.320
like, Okay. Cool. So how do you what am I gonna

353
00:23:02.020 –> 00:23:04.840
have a sit down and and and and comb through?

354
00:23:05.595 –> 00:23:08.875
Tones of information with this person who just made this decision and said, just you

355
00:23:08.875 –> 00:23:12.075
know what I mean? Like, it’s this it’s a psych it it’s a it’s like

356
00:23:12.075 –> 00:23:15.420
a psychic block, and you’re telling it’s it’s like a just just another

357
00:23:16.140 –> 00:23:19.520
to, like, another sort of evidence of the spiritual

358
00:23:19.980 –> 00:23:23.500
malnourishment that we all seem to be sort of, like, engaged in

359
00:23:23.500 –> 00:23:27.195
whether you know, and if that’s the the the

360
00:23:27.195 –> 00:23:30.875
the the onslaught of information of what’s

361
00:23:30.875 –> 00:23:34.158
keeping that barrier from, from interest if if people’s is sort of like grabbing on

362
00:23:34.158 –> 00:23:35.789
to it is is

363
00:23:41.745 –> 00:23:44.952
How do you brace the

364
00:23:45.128 –> 00:23:48.336
castle? Yeah. Well, I’m reminded

365
00:23:48.512 –> 00:23:52.039
of a line in the gunslinger,

366
00:23:52.659 –> 00:23:53.960
by Stephen King, where the wizard Martin is finally

367
00:24:01.765 –> 00:24:04.085
captured or not captured, but Martin Broadcloth is finally, run down by the gunslinger.

368
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And,

369
00:24:10.250 –> 00:24:13.290
And, of course, the gunslinger by Stephen King, the the book opens up with that

370
00:24:13.290 –> 00:24:17.130
great first line. The man in black raced across the desert, and,

371
00:24:17.210 –> 00:24:20.755
the gunslinger followed him. And like that, and then you’re sort of it’s, again, it’s

372
00:24:20.755 –> 00:24:24.515
sort of call out to to the hobbit. Right? You have this layered sentence where

373
00:24:24.515 –> 00:24:27.870
there’s a whole bunch of different things happening, and then you sort of go. But

374
00:24:27.870 –> 00:24:31.710
anyway, so it’s why a little alert. The gunslinger captures the the

375
00:24:31.710 –> 00:24:35.250
man in black. Yeah. The wizard. Anyway, and

376
00:24:36.195 –> 00:24:39.875
they’re holding palaver, right, over, over a

377
00:24:39.875 –> 00:24:43.635
fire. And, Martin Broadcloth, the

378
00:24:43.635 –> 00:24:46.520
wizard, tells Roland DuShane, the gunslinger,

379
00:24:47.860 –> 00:24:51.460
about the history of mid world, right, all the things that happened before the world,

380
00:24:51.460 –> 00:24:54.975
quote, unquote, moved on. And one of the things that he

381
00:24:54.975 –> 00:24:58.035
tells, Roland, who’s a

382
00:25:01.010 –> 00:25:04.769
He’s not an intellectually smart man, but he is solid

383
00:25:04.769 –> 00:25:08.070
and persistent, which is what you need in order to go to the tower.

384
00:25:08.529 –> 00:25:12.315
You need that. You don’t need to be particularly intelligent, but you need to be

385
00:25:12.315 –> 00:25:15.455
persistent. Right? And it gives him information,

386
00:25:16.554 –> 00:25:20.350
and he tells him that At one point in time before the world moved on,

387
00:25:20.490 –> 00:25:24.330
men were even able to make babies with frozen man’s sperm, and were even able

388
00:25:24.330 –> 00:25:28.125
to go to the moon. And that for all of their information,

389
00:25:28.825 –> 00:25:32.525
they had very little true knowledge or very little true wisdom.

390
00:25:33.370 –> 00:25:36.890
And, of course, Rolences, that’s nonsense. Like,

391
00:25:36.890 –> 00:25:39.070
babies from frozen man’s firm. That’s ridiculous.

392
00:25:40.695 –> 00:25:44.455
And the point is, and I I that that that piece of it right there

393
00:25:44.455 –> 00:25:47.675
sticks with me when I think about what you said, and I think it’s very

394
00:25:47.975 –> 00:25:51.760
cogent. So I keep revisiting it. I think about what you said about,

395
00:25:51.980 –> 00:25:55.740
you know, the internet and giving us information and all this, but very little genuine

396
00:25:55.740 –> 00:25:59.445
knowledge, much less wisdom. And that’s the much larger thing I think that

397
00:25:59.445 –> 00:26:03.205
we chase here is how do you where do you why do

398
00:26:03.205 –> 00:26:06.905
you capture wisdom? And I think the wisdom is buried in the books.

399
00:26:07.740 –> 00:26:11.440
But you have to be solid like the gunslinger

400
00:26:11.500 –> 00:26:14.779
to go through it. And I don’t I think we’ve I think we’re trying to

401
00:26:14.779 –> 00:26:18.595
weave that out of people because you don’t Well,

402
00:26:19.455 –> 00:26:23.235
I think there are forces in this world that don’t want that, but I also

403
00:26:23.335 –> 00:26:26.195
think that that sort of stubborn

404
00:26:27.840 –> 00:26:31.600
nose to the grindstone persistence. To your point, isn’t really

405
00:26:31.600 –> 00:26:33.700
valued when I could just go hire the hot girl.

406
00:26:35.145 –> 00:26:38.745
There’s there’s a guitarist. He actually lived down in the Austin area. So he’s

407
00:26:38.745 –> 00:26:42.125
next to — I don’t believe he’s at a bank called a polythea.

408
00:26:42.799 –> 00:26:46.480
Okay. He is, he’s he is an alien on the

409
00:26:46.480 –> 00:26:50.159
guitar. And he talks about, like, in interviews, like, how did you

410
00:26:50.159 –> 00:26:53.664
develop your technique as well? It

411
00:26:53.664 –> 00:26:57.125
all started off because I just wanted to flex on the guitar

412
00:26:57.184 –> 00:27:00.910
with all the cool stuff I could do. So the

413
00:27:00.910 –> 00:27:04.750
problem with that is you don’t really learn anything because

414
00:27:04.750 –> 00:27:08.414
you’re just trying to impress. He said, so I may have

415
00:27:08.414 –> 00:27:10.755
been able to do these technically advanced,

416
00:27:12.654 –> 00:27:16.470
movements, but in application, it

417
00:27:16.470 –> 00:27:20.090
didn’t really have much because there was no theory to apply

418
00:27:20.230 –> 00:27:24.070
the skills. And so he said, once he realized

419
00:27:24.070 –> 00:27:27.895
this, he got nervous because he he’s like, I

420
00:27:27.895 –> 00:27:31.655
have a ton of work to do. I have to backfill all of this

421
00:27:31.655 –> 00:27:35.195
information because I know it’s not gonna be given to me.

422
00:27:35.920 –> 00:27:38.776
And I feel like is is that you’re they’re because of the immediacy and because

423
00:27:38.776 –> 00:27:39.550
things, the

424
00:27:44.865 –> 00:27:47.765
the idea of working for something

425
00:27:48.785 –> 00:27:51.845
is it has become a more foreign

426
00:27:52.950 –> 00:27:56.310
I don’t know, concept or, especially in, like,

427
00:27:56.310 –> 00:28:00.070
application. And I think that’s what the job the wide job

428
00:28:00.070 –> 00:28:03.595
markets are so volatile right now. It’s like, yeah, you work with a

429
00:28:03.595 –> 00:28:06.955
job and you get there and you’re like, and it’s not what

430
00:28:07.835 –> 00:28:10.575
you know, there’s just there was a breakdown the entire time.

431
00:28:11.890 –> 00:28:15.650
So — I think I

432
00:28:15.650 –> 00:28:19.426
think also I think, I think that COVID

433
00:28:19.858 –> 00:28:23.465
I’m sorry. The the unnamed virus of

434
00:28:23.465 –> 00:28:25.565
unknown origin. It it came from nowhere and did nothing. I I I think that

435
00:28:31.690 –> 00:28:34.830
that entire situation that we wound up in,

436
00:28:36.250 –> 00:28:40.030
exacerbated some things that were already lying underneath the surface of American

437
00:28:40.170 –> 00:28:42.995
society. And society of the West overall.

438
00:28:47.215 –> 00:28:50.279
But I do fundamentally believe that a literature

439
00:28:50.820 –> 00:28:54.500
slash philosophy slash leadership slash management podcast can actually help save

440
00:28:54.500 –> 00:28:57.870
Western Civilization. I I do believe

441
00:28:57.870 –> 00:29:01.225
that. I do. Here’s the here’s the crazy thing,

442
00:29:01.225 –> 00:29:04.765
man. But I’ve all, like, I’ve always loved, like, your your the path.

443
00:29:05.225 –> 00:29:09.070
You’re on and that you’ve taken to get there. It’s it’s it’s been fantastic

444
00:29:09.130 –> 00:29:11.309
and, like, like, awesome to watch.

445
00:29:12.490 –> 00:29:15.240
And I am experiencing

446
00:29:17.315 –> 00:29:20.695
like, the breakdown in communication and

447
00:29:21.315 –> 00:29:25.095
what it actually means to be a leader on a daily

448
00:29:25.155 –> 00:29:28.260
basis and it’s a it’s a grind, man.

449
00:29:28.800 –> 00:29:32.420
It’s a grind because there is this sort of, like,

450
00:29:32.640 –> 00:29:36.335
commitment to excellence and also the truth on some

451
00:29:36.335 –> 00:29:39.715
level. So if

452
00:29:40.495 –> 00:29:42.595
no one is playing in that field,

453
00:29:43.970 –> 00:29:47.809
everyone sort of, like, has, like, 200 Peterson talks

454
00:29:47.809 –> 00:29:51.490
about, you know, the investment and outcome. Mhmm. You know, it’s like if

455
00:29:51.490 –> 00:29:54.965
I do x, y will happen. And so if anything

456
00:29:55.105 –> 00:29:58.945
is so it’s it’s a it’s it’s it’s a 0

457
00:29:58.945 –> 00:30:02.645
sum game because you’re you’re just you’re fight you’re jockeying for Bishop’s

458
00:30:02.705 –> 00:30:06.419
position. Yeah. Anyone and everyone run over

459
00:30:06.419 –> 00:30:09.720
anyone and everyone to get to the next thing. Yeah.

460
00:30:12.655 –> 00:30:16.495
Let’s, let’s move forward a bit. A

461
00:30:16.495 –> 00:30:20.230
lot of different things happen. Gonna move forward a little bit. I’m gonna jump around

462
00:30:20.230 –> 00:30:23.990
here in, in the Hobbit. I would encourage you to pick up

463
00:30:23.990 –> 00:30:27.765
a copy of it, pick up your copy of it. From, from

464
00:30:27.765 –> 00:30:29.865
your local bookstore add to that 600,000,000

465
00:30:31.445 –> 00:30:35.065
sold. It will be worth your time. Read it with your kids.

466
00:30:35.200 –> 00:30:39.040
By the way, particularly if your kids, don’t like reading, just

467
00:30:39.040 –> 00:30:41.520
read a couple of pages at a time. It’ll take you a year to read

468
00:30:41.520 –> 00:30:44.905
through the book. Go on an adventure. It’ll be it’ll be amazing.

469
00:30:46.325 –> 00:30:50.165
So we’re going to we’re going to skip forward over quite a few things, quite

470
00:30:50.165 –> 00:30:53.640
a few pieces of the adventure, including the

471
00:30:53.640 –> 00:30:57.240
meeting of the dwarves, which, there are

472
00:30:57.240 –> 00:31:00.985
dwarves. There’s about 13 of them. Led by,

473
00:31:01.144 –> 00:31:04.985
led by a fellow named Suaron O’kenShield. And, we’ll go

474
00:31:04.985 –> 00:31:08.700
into the dwarves in a little bit. But I wanna talk about what

475
00:31:08.700 –> 00:31:12.300
the doors are pursuing because there’s a link

476
00:31:12.300 –> 00:31:15.740
here between what Ryan has talked about in the

477
00:31:15.740 –> 00:31:19.485
acquisition of knowledge and when and what I’ve mentioned also as

478
00:31:19.485 –> 00:31:23.245
well. But in the acquisition of knowledge without really having

479
00:31:23.245 –> 00:31:26.740
to earn it, and it’s in this pursuit of

480
00:31:26.740 –> 00:31:30.500
gold or or in some cases to to paraphrase or the good, the

481
00:31:30.500 –> 00:31:33.080
bad, and the ugly, the the ecstasy

482
00:31:34.265 –> 00:31:38.024
of, of gold, which by the way, my six year old

483
00:31:38.024 –> 00:31:41.784
son loves that song, by the way. Chapter 12. So we’re gonna go to chapter

484
00:31:41.784 –> 00:31:45.419
12. Inside

485
00:31:45.480 –> 00:31:49.000
information. And we’re going to we’re going to pick up

486
00:31:49.000 –> 00:31:52.625
with, Well, we’re gonna pick up with some

487
00:31:52.625 –> 00:31:54.965
things happening to, happening to Bill Bo here.

488
00:31:56.865 –> 00:32:00.279
For a long time, the dwarves stood in the dark before the door and debated

489
00:32:00.279 –> 00:32:03.960
until the last Suaron spoke. Now is the

490
00:32:03.960 –> 00:32:07.399
time for our esteemed Mister Baggins, who has proved himself a good companion on our

491
00:32:07.399 –> 00:32:10.825
long road, a hobbit full of courage and resource far exceeding his

492
00:32:10.825 –> 00:32:14.505
size. And if I may so, so possessed of good luck far exceeding the

493
00:32:14.505 –> 00:32:17.770
usual, allow months. Now is the time for him to perform the service for which

494
00:32:17.770 –> 00:32:21.610
he was included in our company. Now is the time for him to earn

495
00:32:21.610 –> 00:32:25.145
his reward? You are familiar with Thorin’s

496
00:32:25.145 –> 00:32:27.785
style on important occasion, so I would not give you any more of it, though

497
00:32:27.785 –> 00:32:31.225
he went on a good deal longer than this. It certainly was an important

498
00:32:31.225 –> 00:32:34.850
occasion, but Bilbo felt impatient By now, he was quite familiar with

499
00:32:34.866 –> 00:32:38.690
Suaron too, and he knew what he was driving at. If you mean you think

500
00:32:38.690 –> 00:32:42.130
it is my job to go into the secret passage first or Thorin Thrin’s son,

501
00:32:42.130 –> 00:32:45.924
Oaken shield, May your beard grow ever longer, he said, Crossley. Say so

502
00:32:45.924 –> 00:32:49.684
Ed once it have done. I might refuse. I’ve got you out of 2

503
00:32:49.684 –> 00:32:53.410
messes already, which are hardly in the original bargain. So that I am, I

504
00:32:53.410 –> 00:32:57.090
think, already owed some reward, but third time pays for all is my father used

505
00:32:57.090 –> 00:33:00.745
to say, and somehow I don’t think I shall refuse. Perhaps I have begun to

506
00:33:00.745 –> 00:33:03.545
trust my luck more than I used to in the old days. He meant last

507
00:33:03.545 –> 00:33:07.225
spring before he left his own house, but it seems centuries ago. But, anyway, I

508
00:33:07.225 –> 00:33:09.900
think I will go and have a peep and and get it over. Now who’s

509
00:33:09.900 –> 00:33:13.260
coming with me? He did not expect a course of

510
00:33:13.260 –> 00:33:17.085
volunteers, so he was not disappointed. Philly and Kelly looked

511
00:33:17.085 –> 00:33:20.605
comfortable and stood on one leg, but the others made no pretense of

512
00:33:20.605 –> 00:33:24.445
offering. Except old Balen, the lookout man who was rather fond

513
00:33:24.445 –> 00:33:27.710
of the hobbit, He said he would come inside at least in perhaps a bit

514
00:33:27.710 –> 00:33:30.210
of the way to really to call for help if necessary.

515
00:33:31.550 –> 00:33:35.275
The most that can be said for door for the doors is this. They intended

516
00:33:35.275 –> 00:33:38.875
to pay Bill bill really handsomely for his services. They had brought him to do

517
00:33:38.875 –> 00:33:42.154
a nasty job for them, and they did not mind the poor little fellow doing

518
00:33:42.154 –> 00:33:45.960
it if he would. But they would have done they would have all done their

519
00:33:45.960 –> 00:33:49.000
best to get him out of trouble if he got into it as they did

520
00:33:49.000 –> 00:33:52.025
in the case of the trolls at the beginning of their adventures they had any

521
00:33:52.025 –> 00:33:55.485
particular reason for being grateful to him. There it is.

522
00:33:56.105 –> 00:33:59.890
Dwarves are not heroes. But calculating folk

523
00:33:59.890 –> 00:34:03.730
with a great idea of the value of money. Some are tricky and

524
00:34:03.730 –> 00:34:07.365
treacherous and pretty bad lots. Some are not. But are decent enough people

525
00:34:07.365 –> 00:34:10.725
like foreign in company if you don’t expect too

526
00:34:10.725 –> 00:34:14.540
much. Stars were coming out behind him at

527
00:34:14.540 –> 00:34:17.739
a pale sky bard with black when the Hobbit crept through the enchanted door and

528
00:34:17.739 –> 00:34:21.579
stole into the mountain. It was far easier going than he expected. This was no

529
00:34:21.579 –> 00:34:25.425
goblin entrance or rough woodl cave. It was a passage made by dwarves

530
00:34:25.425 –> 00:34:29.105
at the height of their wealth and skill. Straight as a ruler, smooth floored, and

531
00:34:29.105 –> 00:34:32.940
smooth sided going with a gentle never varying sloped to some distant end in

532
00:34:32.940 –> 00:34:36.699
the blackness below. After a while, Bayland bay to

533
00:34:36.699 –> 00:34:39.820
Bilbo, good luck. It stopped where he could still see the faint outline of the

534
00:34:39.820 –> 00:34:42.855
door. And by a trick of the echoes of the tunnel, hear the rustle of

535
00:34:42.855 –> 00:34:46.695
whispering voices of the others just outside, then the hobbit slipped on his

536
00:34:46.695 –> 00:34:50.290
ring, pause for just a moment. That’s gonna be a

537
00:34:50.290 –> 00:34:53.430
problem later. Just take note.

538
00:34:54.530 –> 00:34:58.175
Back to the book. And worn by the echoes to take more than a

539
00:34:58.175 –> 00:35:01.955
hobbit’s care to make no sound, he crept noiselessly down, down, down into the dark.

540
00:35:02.655 –> 00:35:05.635
He was trembling with fear, but his little face was set and grim.

541
00:35:06.240 –> 00:35:09.200
Already, he was a very different hobbit from the one that had run out without

542
00:35:09.200 –> 00:35:12.960
a pocket handkerchief from Bag End long ago. He had not had a

543
00:35:12.960 –> 00:35:16.445
pocket handkerchief for ages. He loosed his dagger in sheaf tightened his

544
00:35:16.445 –> 00:35:20.245
belt and went on. Now you are in for it

545
00:35:20.245 –> 00:35:22.925
at last verbal bag, and he said to himself, you went and put your foot

546
00:35:22.925 –> 00:35:25.589
right in at that night of the party. Now you’ve got to pull it out

547
00:35:25.589 –> 00:35:28.710
and pay for it. Beer me what a fool I was in Am. It said

548
00:35:28.710 –> 00:35:31.914
the least took a shit part of him. I have absolutely no use for Suaron

549
00:35:32.069 –> 00:35:35.305
Guardian treasures, and the whole lot could stay here forever. I could only wake up

550
00:35:35.305 –> 00:35:39.065
and find this beasley tunnel was my suaron haul at home. He did

551
00:35:39.065 –> 00:35:41.545
not wake up, of course, but still went on and on till all sign of

552
00:35:41.545 –> 00:35:44.500
the door behind him at away, he was altogether alone.

553
00:35:45.520 –> 00:35:49.360
Soon, he thought it was beginning to feel warm. Is that a kind of

554
00:35:49.360 –> 00:35:52.545
glow I seem to see coming right ahead down there? He thought

555
00:35:53.905 –> 00:35:57.665
It was as he went forward, it grew

556
00:35:57.665 –> 00:36:00.625
and grew till there was no doubt about it. It was a red light steadily

557
00:36:00.625 –> 00:36:04.030
getting redder and redder Also, it was now undoubtedly hot in the

558
00:36:04.030 –> 00:36:07.810
tunnel. Wists of vapor floated up and passed him, and he began to sweat.

559
00:36:08.030 –> 00:36:10.910
A sound too began to throb in his ears as sort of bubbling like the

560
00:36:10.910 –> 00:36:14.695
noise of a large pot galloping on the fire mixed with a rumble is

561
00:36:14.695 –> 00:36:18.295
of a gigantic tomcat purring. This grew to the

562
00:36:18.295 –> 00:36:22.040
unmistakable gurgling noise with some vast animal snoring in sleep down

563
00:36:22.040 –> 00:36:25.720
there in the red glow in front of him. It

564
00:36:25.720 –> 00:36:29.480
was at this point that Bill Bowstopped. Going on from there was the

565
00:36:29.480 –> 00:36:33.095
bravest thing he ever did. The tremendous things that happened afterward were

566
00:36:33.095 –> 00:36:36.535
as nothing compared to it. You fought the real battle in the tunnel

567
00:36:36.535 –> 00:36:39.835
alone before he ever saw the vast danger that lay in weight.

568
00:36:40.609 –> 00:36:44.049
At any rate, after a short halt, Goannie did, and you can picture him coming

569
00:36:44.049 –> 00:36:46.769
up to the end of the tunnel and opening a much the same size and

570
00:36:46.769 –> 00:36:50.585
shape as the door above. Through it keeps the hobbits a little head before

571
00:36:50.585 –> 00:36:54.105
him lies the great bottommost cellar or dungeon hall of the ancient dwarves right at

572
00:36:54.105 –> 00:36:57.920
the mountain’s route It is almost dark so that its vastness can

573
00:36:57.920 –> 00:37:01.520
only be dimly guessed, but rising from the near side of the

574
00:37:01.520 –> 00:37:05.185
rocky floor There is a great glow. The glow

575
00:37:05.185 –> 00:37:07.649
of smaug.

576
00:37:15.890 –> 00:37:19.410
So we’re gonna talk extensively about dragons today, and I’ll leave

577
00:37:19.410 –> 00:37:22.765
smog there. Snoring atop his heap of gold

578
00:37:23.705 –> 00:37:26.845
for just a moment while I bring this up. So

579
00:37:27.820 –> 00:37:31.120
in the first twelve chapters of the Hobbit,

580
00:37:31.660 –> 00:37:35.420
you get a sense because it’s world building. The Tolkien is really

581
00:37:35.420 –> 00:37:38.815
interested in. Of the motivations of dwarves,

582
00:37:39.035 –> 00:37:42.635
elves, Hobbits, and wizards. Now let’s sort of

583
00:37:42.635 –> 00:37:46.310
break these down a little bit for those of you who are uninitiated or

584
00:37:46.310 –> 00:37:49.530
who watched the overextended Peter Jackson films,

585
00:37:50.150 –> 00:37:53.905
by the way, Gilenmador Torro should have directed the Hobbit It should

586
00:37:53.905 –> 00:37:57.425
have been a 2 parter, and that would have been it. But new line

587
00:37:57.425 –> 00:38:00.724
cinema, much like smog, was greedy for gold.

588
00:38:02.460 –> 00:38:04.720
Kind of a problem. Over

589
00:38:06.220 –> 00:38:09.900
extended. Oh, yeah. 3 movies was too much.

590
00:38:09.900 –> 00:38:13.265
What are we doing? What is it?

591
00:38:13.805 –> 00:38:16.865
Oh my god. Not not only that. Yeah. Anyway.

592
00:38:18.420 –> 00:38:21.240
There’s barely enough there for 2 movies, much less 3.

593
00:38:21.940 –> 00:38:25.780
Anyhow, and everybody knew it. Even Peter Jackson knew it. Okay. That’s my

594
00:38:25.780 –> 00:38:29.375
review of the movies. So Tolkien

595
00:38:29.915 –> 00:38:33.515
gave each race in, in in middle

596
00:38:33.515 –> 00:38:37.350
earth, their own personality. Right? And so he talks

597
00:38:37.350 –> 00:38:41.130
a little bit about dwarves. We were greedy and brave, but also cowardly.

598
00:38:41.910 –> 00:38:45.505
Dwarves share a lot in common with humans. By the way, humans aren’t extensively

599
00:38:45.565 –> 00:38:49.325
mentioned in, in the hobbit. Suffice

600
00:38:49.325 –> 00:38:52.845
it to say, Gandalf does stand in for the humans, but

601
00:38:52.845 –> 00:38:56.430
Gandalf is a wizard. And that’s that’s a different thing.

602
00:38:56.890 –> 00:39:00.730
Do we know how old Gamoff is? So, that’s an excellent

603
00:39:00.730 –> 00:39:04.575
question. The Simone hints that he’s

604
00:39:04.575 –> 00:39:08.415
close to 800 or 900 years old. But, you

605
00:39:08.415 –> 00:39:12.150
know, there’s going to be tolkienites out there. That are going to yell

606
00:39:12.150 –> 00:39:15.910
at me because I got the number wrong. But it’s somewhere. It’s somewhere

607
00:39:15.910 –> 00:39:19.670
in there. And and there’s also some indication or some

608
00:39:19.670 –> 00:39:23.255
intubation that Gandalf merely just appeared in the world,

609
00:39:23.895 –> 00:39:26.155
along with the other 2 wizards. So

610
00:39:29.320 –> 00:39:33.000
there’s also some information there that Gandalf might be ageless, and it

611
00:39:33.000 –> 00:39:36.600
might not matter. In which case, he is from a total he’s a totally

612
00:39:36.600 –> 00:39:38.835
different thing, but Oh, okay.

613
00:39:40.335 –> 00:39:44.174
Then, of course, you got the Hobbits who are fat and suaron, and and

614
00:39:44.174 –> 00:39:48.000
they live in a They live in a they live in a they live in

615
00:39:48.000 –> 00:39:51.840
a positive room, rather than a negative one, and I wanna talk a

616
00:39:51.840 –> 00:39:55.325
little bit more about that. Then you’ve got the elves and,

617
00:39:56.925 –> 00:40:00.605
the hobbits visit the elves or they or they at least stop, at

618
00:40:00.605 –> 00:40:03.369
the they stop at the, at the l’s,

619
00:40:07.430 –> 00:40:08.250
sort of

620
00:40:11.435 –> 00:40:15.115
their their their their village, I guess, is the best term to

621
00:40:15.115 –> 00:40:18.955
use. Although it’s more like their civilization in chapter 3, a short

622
00:40:18.955 –> 00:40:19.455
rest.

623
00:40:22.620 –> 00:40:25.360
Like kingdom? Pingdong civilization.

624
00:40:27.740 –> 00:40:31.395
Place where they’re all hanging out. I gotta admit. I don’t have much respect

625
00:40:31.395 –> 00:40:34.994
for the elves in the Hobbit. I’m more in lord of the rings, but I

626
00:40:34.994 –> 00:40:38.099
don’t have a whole lot of respect for the And and the reason why is

627
00:40:38.099 –> 00:40:41.720
because the elves are your classic sort of.

628
00:40:44.224 –> 00:40:47.984
They’re the Eloy from time machine that don’t really

629
00:40:47.984 –> 00:40:50.005
wanna know where their food comes from.

630
00:40:52.349 –> 00:40:56.190
Which makes them arrogant and kind of useless. And I think this was sort of

631
00:40:56.190 –> 00:40:59.934
a point that Tolkien was making as well. They’re

632
00:40:59.934 –> 00:41:03.234
intelligent, they’re ethereal, and they float above it all.

633
00:41:04.494 –> 00:41:08.255
Always above it all. Never daring to get down into

634
00:41:08.255 –> 00:41:11.980
the muck. But there are legends about when they did.

635
00:41:12.279 –> 00:41:15.799
And again, in the Semorilian, in the first battles

636
00:41:15.799 –> 00:41:19.355
against suaron, in, you know, all the way to the

637
00:41:19.355 –> 00:41:22.315
edges of Mordor. Some of this is more fleshed out in Lord of the rings.

638
00:41:22.315 –> 00:41:24.895
Again, the hobbit is sort of an introduction to this.

639
00:41:26.500 –> 00:41:29.780
And then, of course, you have wizards, you know, which are we already mentioned the

640
00:41:29.780 –> 00:41:32.440
end of. Wizards are unique because

641
00:41:33.975 –> 00:41:37.115
they’re the ones that get people motivated and get people moving.

642
00:41:37.975 –> 00:41:41.335
And they don’t really care why people are moving. They would like

643
00:41:41.335 –> 00:41:44.920
motivations to be pure. But they’ll take any motivations that they can

644
00:41:44.920 –> 00:41:48.380
get because their job is to sort of, I think, be the

645
00:41:48.920 –> 00:41:52.585
be the catalyst in the world. Be the way

646
00:41:52.885 –> 00:41:56.565
for the world to move on. Now some wizards do this well, like

647
00:41:56.565 –> 00:42:00.410
Gandalf, other wizards, like the one that, was the head

648
00:42:00.410 –> 00:42:04.250
of the Eagles and the Birds, Catmer, that wizard’s name right now. Again, the Tolkenites

649
00:42:04.250 –> 00:42:07.550
will all get to me on this one. But,

650
00:42:08.545 –> 00:42:12.065
some of them just sort of totally abandoned abandoned what it is that they’re doing

651
00:42:12.065 –> 00:42:15.665
is sort of fall into fall into the natural world. And then you have

652
00:42:15.665 –> 00:42:19.380
other wizards, as we will see in the two towers

653
00:42:19.380 –> 00:42:22.660
here coming up in a couple of weeks. You have other wizards who throw in

654
00:42:22.660 –> 00:42:26.335
their lot with with with well, with evil forces,

655
00:42:26.715 –> 00:42:29.055
but they probably shouldn’t throw in

656
00:42:30.395 –> 00:42:34.020
with By the way, wizards always show

657
00:42:34.020 –> 00:42:37.859
up when the apocalypse is on the way or when Armageddon is about to

658
00:42:37.859 –> 00:42:41.684
occur. And here’s the thing. Armageddon is

659
00:42:41.684 –> 00:42:45.525
always on the horizon in ways

660
00:42:45.525 –> 00:42:46.984
both large and small.

661
00:42:49.810 –> 00:42:53.170
But in the Hobbit, everyone’s after the gold. Everyone’s after the

662
00:42:53.170 –> 00:42:56.550
treasure. That’s why I opened with this

663
00:42:57.145 –> 00:43:00.845
Constaccio De Laurel. Right? It’s it’s it’s this idea

664
00:43:00.905 –> 00:43:04.505
that gold is going to be the driver, and the dwarves really only care

665
00:43:04.505 –> 00:43:08.330
about wealth. They dig deeply

666
00:43:08.330 –> 00:43:11.870
and greedily, and their talents and skills are all oriented

667
00:43:11.930 –> 00:43:15.675
towards protecting their wealth and putting it in while putting

668
00:43:15.675 –> 00:43:19.195
it in caves, sort of like the benedictine option with some

669
00:43:19.195 –> 00:43:21.295
Christians. And so

670
00:43:24.270 –> 00:43:27.950
So my question is sort of to get us started on

671
00:43:27.950 –> 00:43:31.645
this intellectual jog. Array. And

672
00:43:31.645 –> 00:43:35.005
how can leaders be avoid being seduced by

673
00:43:35.005 –> 00:43:38.040
wealth? Before

674
00:43:38.417 –> 00:43:40.670
I did wanna

675
00:43:41.924 –> 00:43:45.675
so how to I I I

676
00:43:45.675 –> 00:43:49.194
was working a job and a man came in with his

677
00:43:49.194 –> 00:43:52.895
daughter. His daughter was probably like eleven years old, seventy nine,

678
00:43:53.515 –> 00:43:57.340
and I was kind of unsure what was going on because

679
00:43:57.340 –> 00:44:01.100
he was standing away from her, but allowing her to walk through

680
00:44:01.100 –> 00:44:04.775
the restaurant and walk to the counter. And order her

681
00:44:04.775 –> 00:44:08.535
food and pay using a card and — Mhmm. — us watch the

682
00:44:08.535 –> 00:44:12.299
father observe, and she kinda, like, turned and looked And and

683
00:44:12.299 –> 00:44:16.059
it was this, like, really pure, beautiful moment where a father, a

684
00:44:16.059 –> 00:44:19.575
wizard, was teaching his, you know — Yeah.

685
00:44:19.655 –> 00:44:23.335
Popped it. Like, yeah. You can you can, like, you can, like, you know,

686
00:44:23.335 –> 00:44:26.775
he’s like, that — You can do it. — a beautiful thing. And so

687
00:44:26.775 –> 00:44:30.359
that’s, like, to kind of like piggyback on, how

688
00:44:30.500 –> 00:44:34.099
to integrate. It’s like people who see opportunities to do so and and

689
00:44:34.099 –> 00:44:37.895
carry that on for whoever is in need of that experience in that

690
00:44:37.975 –> 00:44:41.815
situation. His daughter is, I think, a wonderful

691
00:44:41.815 –> 00:44:45.255
continuation of how to get people sort of engaged in the 3 d

692
00:44:45.255 –> 00:44:49.049
actual world. And and and continuation. But

693
00:44:49.049 –> 00:44:52.809
how to avoid being seduced by wealth is a lot

694
00:44:52.809 –> 00:44:56.430
of, I think, education and

695
00:44:58.395 –> 00:45:02.095
Understood. Let me let’s see here. I have

696
00:45:02.155 –> 00:45:05.789
outlined in detail all forms of wealth, not in financial or

697
00:45:05.789 –> 00:45:08.770
acquisition of forms and the in inherent

698
00:45:09.309 –> 00:45:12.910
interconnectivity of all system. When one system

699
00:45:12.910 –> 00:45:16.625
is off, it

700
00:45:16.625 –> 00:45:18.965
has not always a clear effect on the outcome.

701
00:45:20.305 –> 00:45:23.930
So years ago, my AA sponsor, Bob, Bob

702
00:45:23.930 –> 00:45:27.450
G. He, he got his pilot’s license. He’s find recreational

703
00:45:27.450 –> 00:45:31.230
pilot’s license, and he was talking about his being in school and his training.

704
00:45:31.635 –> 00:45:35.255
And that his instructor said, you know, when a plane crashes,

705
00:45:35.875 –> 00:45:39.670
it’s not like one thing. And he proceeded to give me,

706
00:45:39.670 –> 00:45:43.350
like, all of the kind of instruments and and and

707
00:45:43.350 –> 00:45:46.790
and and devices and mechanics of the

708
00:45:46.790 –> 00:45:50.285
plane, that weren’t major ones, like, you

709
00:45:50.285 –> 00:45:53.905
know, uh-uh, some a wing falls off. Mhmm.

710
00:45:54.525 –> 00:45:58.060
He said, but even, like, with that, it’s partial wing. He said, If one

711
00:45:58.060 –> 00:46:01.900
thing, goes wrong, you can navigate around it. If

712
00:46:01.900 –> 00:46:05.555
2 things goes wrong, you can navigate around it. It’s like, but you start seeing,

713
00:46:05.555 –> 00:46:09.174
like, alright, the landing gear is not coming down. You only have one propeller

714
00:46:09.234 –> 00:46:12.934
and all your all your instruments have gone off.

715
00:46:13.154 –> 00:46:16.610
You’re probably So it’s it’s it’s

716
00:46:16.610 –> 00:46:20.310
that, that wealth is not solely limited

717
00:46:20.370 –> 00:46:24.015
to kind of like a tangible, their spiritual wealth.

718
00:46:24.015 –> 00:46:27.615
There’s this, like, familiar connectivity social and how

719
00:46:27.615 –> 00:46:31.170
strong I think these things are and these bonds are

720
00:46:31.410 –> 00:46:35.250
because at some point, you know, as we we talked about prior to it.

721
00:46:35.250 –> 00:46:38.710
So you get to in your forties and fifties and you realize, like,

722
00:46:38.895 –> 00:46:42.275
wow, the strength of not, you know, some realize younger

723
00:46:42.815 –> 00:46:46.630
than than older, but realizing the quality of my life is congruent to the

724
00:46:46.630 –> 00:46:50.170
strength of my interpersonal relationships and that,

725
00:46:51.510 –> 00:46:55.265
you know, paying attention to those things that I may have

726
00:46:55.265 –> 00:46:58.865
not had thought were that important because they weren’t the cool thing or the

727
00:46:58.865 –> 00:47:01.285
sexy thing of a hip thing or any of those things,

728
00:47:02.809 –> 00:47:06.589
is it has an incredible value, immeasurable

729
00:47:06.730 –> 00:47:10.430
value just because of how much small things

730
00:47:11.335 –> 00:47:15.115
when compiled and sort of working towards that, like, a a balanced

731
00:47:16.214 –> 00:47:20.010
life. Those things have of great value. And it’s like this, you know,

732
00:47:20.010 –> 00:47:23.550
the the the sum of the the parts are way greater than the individual ingredients.

733
00:47:24.010 –> 00:47:27.390
And I think I think wealth and the misunderstanding of wealth

734
00:47:28.444 –> 00:47:32.204
just as, kind of a state or a

735
00:47:32.204 –> 00:47:35.645
concept is, is, is, like, a lot of things, there’s a lot of there’s

736
00:47:35.645 –> 00:47:39.000
misunderstanding about. So this is the idea.

737
00:47:39.619 –> 00:47:42.339
There was a comic book writer and artist way back in the day. A guy

738
00:47:42.339 –> 00:47:46.180
named Dave Sim, wrote a great comic book called Sarabas,

739
00:47:46.180 –> 00:47:49.895
the r Aardvark should go pick it up. The first

740
00:47:49.895 –> 00:47:53.655
independent comic that had a beginning, a middle at an end. Loved it for that

741
00:47:53.655 –> 00:47:56.155
reason. But,

742
00:47:58.720 –> 00:48:02.320
Dave Sim in the 19 nineties was involved in a whole lot of controversies in

743
00:48:02.320 –> 00:48:06.000
comic books because he was a big independent comic books publishing

744
00:48:06.000 –> 00:48:09.815
guy. He just was. And one of the things that he said was,

745
00:48:09.815 –> 00:48:12.455
you know, if you go and work for Marvel Comics at the time, which was

746
00:48:12.455 –> 00:48:15.675
still an independent suaron company before they got acquired by the mouse house,

747
00:48:16.510 –> 00:48:20.030
or if you go work for DC comics, which, you know, DC has been won

748
00:48:20.030 –> 00:48:23.550
by Warner Brothers since time out of mine. Okay. If you’re gonna go work for

749
00:48:23.550 –> 00:48:27.285
DC or Marvel, just know that you’re exchanging

750
00:48:27.285 –> 00:48:31.045
the gold of your talent for the paper money of a few shekels. You’re you’re

751
00:48:31.045 –> 00:48:34.800
putting on golden handcuffs in essence. And so the idea that you’re talking

752
00:48:34.800 –> 00:48:38.160
about is this idea of gold versus paper money. In our

753
00:48:38.160 –> 00:48:40.740
day, we think information

754
00:48:41.825 –> 00:48:45.445
and technology is gold, but I’m beginning to wonder

755
00:48:46.065 –> 00:48:49.910
in my time if that really isn’t paper money. We’ve all just kind

756
00:48:49.910 –> 00:48:53.670
of been fooled by fiat currency, you know, money

757
00:48:53.670 –> 00:48:55.690
that isn’t backed by anything. And

758
00:48:58.085 –> 00:49:01.445
We all get to decide what the value of it is at any given moment

759
00:49:01.445 –> 00:49:05.045
and values fluctuate, for instance, the

760
00:49:05.045 –> 00:49:08.880
value of the The value of the gold that’s in your resume is worth

761
00:49:08.880 –> 00:49:11.540
more than the hotness that is paper money of that girl.

762
00:49:13.355 –> 00:49:17.195
Because that’s gonna fluctuate with the market. Sorry, ma’am, but it’s gonna

763
00:49:17.195 –> 00:49:20.875
fluctuate with the market, but your resume is gold. It’s not gonna

764
00:49:20.875 –> 00:49:24.520
fluctuate with the market. The dwarves in the

765
00:49:24.520 –> 00:49:28.060
hobbit, they’re not chasing paper money. They’re chasing gold.

766
00:49:29.880 –> 00:49:33.675
But in their conception of the world, old is

767
00:49:33.675 –> 00:49:37.435
paper money. They don’t look at the work that

768
00:49:37.435 –> 00:49:40.000
they’ve done. They don’t look at the efforts that they’ve put in. They look at

769
00:49:40.080 –> 00:49:43.920
past glory and this acquisition is being the thing. And

770
00:49:43.920 –> 00:49:47.440
it’s it’s almost and and J R Tolkien was was a

771
00:49:47.440 –> 00:49:51.085
Christian, It’s almost idolatry. Right? It’s it’s

772
00:49:51.085 –> 00:49:54.925
almost the idol. And you mentioned Jordan Peterson, you know, he

773
00:49:54.925 –> 00:49:58.690
often says that he’s not wrong. What the biblical corpus will tell you, what the

774
00:49:58.690 –> 00:50:02.290
biblical corpus of those stories will tell you is that if you worship anything that’s

775
00:50:02.290 –> 00:50:05.510
outside of the transcendent, it will judge you and you will always be found wanting.

776
00:50:06.385 –> 00:50:09.365
Period full stop. You just will.

777
00:50:10.865 –> 00:50:14.490
In our time, how do How do we

778
00:50:14.490 –> 00:50:18.330
distinguish between what’s really valuable? What’s that? You talked about things

779
00:50:18.330 –> 00:50:22.170
that are really valuable. That stuff that’s gold, right, from the paper

780
00:50:22.170 –> 00:50:25.145
money. And and then second question,

781
00:50:25.925 –> 00:50:29.285
how do we convince people who aren’t convinced? Because when I was in my

782
00:50:29.285 –> 00:50:32.820
twenties, Heck, when you were in your twenties, I mean, like, we all thought we

783
00:50:32.820 –> 00:50:36.660
were chasing gold, but we weren’t. We were chasing fiat currency. You were chasing

784
00:50:36.660 –> 00:50:40.425
paper money. Yeah. Or so or some

785
00:50:40.744 –> 00:50:43.645
something, you know, very similarly,

786
00:50:45.224 –> 00:50:49.060
represent, like, something of equal Yeah. You proceed

787
00:50:49.060 –> 00:50:50.520
at the time. Right.

788
00:50:52.980 –> 00:50:56.805
I know. Big question. And part of it, maybe it’s just age. Maybe

789
00:50:56.805 –> 00:50:59.365
you just have to go through a whole series of steps and a whole series

790
00:50:59.365 –> 00:51:02.744
of things. You have to have an adventure. You have to leave your hobbit hole.

791
00:51:03.070 –> 00:51:05.890
Go out and have an adventure, get knocked around a little bit

792
00:51:07.630 –> 00:51:11.230
to recognize that difference. I think the the first thing I

793
00:51:11.310 –> 00:51:14.245
when I wrote down first thing I wrote down was patience.

794
00:51:16.225 –> 00:51:16.725
It’s

795
00:51:21.820 –> 00:51:25.500
It’s a lot like, I don’t know who said this, but it’s like, you

796
00:51:25.500 –> 00:51:29.180
know, the the the genius is not in the IP. Yeah. The

797
00:51:29.180 –> 00:51:32.925
genius is in the application. Everyone has had

798
00:51:32.925 –> 00:51:36.525
a genius idea. Yeah. Everyone has been

799
00:51:36.525 –> 00:51:40.079
able to Elon Musk for is a great example.

800
00:51:40.220 –> 00:51:43.980
That is, you know, the the high. That’s the top of

801
00:51:43.980 –> 00:51:47.595
the mountain. Yeah. It was applying your ideas and them to

802
00:51:47.595 –> 00:51:51.134
be successful. How do

803
00:51:51.555 –> 00:51:54.815
you, you know, how

804
00:51:55.234 –> 00:51:58.800
in this world do you does one

805
00:51:59.420 –> 00:52:01.280
not be affected by,

806
00:52:03.500 –> 00:52:07.175
the precedent that is set as far as how the kind of,

807
00:52:07.175 –> 00:52:10.935
like, society has outlined that you kind

808
00:52:10.935 –> 00:52:13.755
of, like, should be. It’s this really weird

809
00:52:16.040 –> 00:52:19.720
Like Was it we do you think the struggle has

810
00:52:19.720 –> 00:52:23.565
gotten harder? I maybe or maybe

811
00:52:23.565 –> 00:52:26.865
the hardness has moved into a different spot. Maybe it was always hard.

812
00:52:30.060 –> 00:52:33.840
I think there are a lot of I think it

813
00:52:33.900 –> 00:52:37.605
is easier to acquire money and

814
00:52:37.605 –> 00:52:40.345
sustain oneself and live autonomously.

815
00:52:41.444 –> 00:52:45.204
And the resources have, even compared to 20

816
00:52:45.204 –> 00:52:48.950
years ago, have kind of like exploded on across the

817
00:52:48.950 –> 00:52:52.730
country be just because of, like, that slave labor thing.

818
00:52:53.030 –> 00:52:56.465
It’s like everything is know, when when I was important, this is 10 years ago,

819
00:52:56.465 –> 00:52:59.745
when I was in Portland, I was leaving a restaurant. I saw a couple homeless

820
00:52:59.745 –> 00:53:02.065
kids and they’re like, Hey, do you have any money? And I could see they

821
00:53:02.065 –> 00:53:04.770
were kind of on the street. And I was maybe you can have my leftover

822
00:53:04.770 –> 00:53:07.810
food, and they were like, no. We need to pay our cell phone bill. And

823
00:53:07.810 –> 00:53:11.224
it was like, what? Your pan

824
00:53:11.224 –> 00:53:13.325
handling for cell phone money?

825
00:53:14.984 –> 00:53:17.884
Like, I don’t do you know what I mean? Like, when you get to that

826
00:53:18.540 –> 00:53:22.380
that disconnect or is that a pro like, I don’t is that a

827
00:53:22.380 –> 00:53:26.220
problem? And so, like, as all this as as

828
00:53:26.220 –> 00:53:29.955
society’s unfolding and it’s just become kind of more confusing because the, like,

829
00:53:29.955 –> 00:53:33.715
the technology is advancing the brain. Technology is like this. The

830
00:53:33.715 –> 00:53:37.480
brain is like this. So it’s — Right. Pulling away in the process of

831
00:53:37.480 –> 00:53:40.920
information. So as somebody who is,

832
00:53:40.920 –> 00:53:44.380
like, out there trying to, like, make it and do it, and then he

833
00:53:44.775 –> 00:53:48.454
continuously see sort of, like, or experience things like this. And it’s like, I

834
00:53:48.454 –> 00:53:51.674
am, like, working my hand off

835
00:53:52.360 –> 00:53:56.120
and, and it’s a, kind of, persistent struggle. And then, so it’s

836
00:53:56.120 –> 00:53:59.560
how do you not compare? It’s, it’s, it’s like, it’s in our face is,

837
00:53:59.560 –> 00:54:03.045
and I don’t know, shutting down social media limiting your social

838
00:54:03.045 –> 00:54:06.725
media exposure. Give yourself an hour a day. There’s there’s all

839
00:54:06.725 –> 00:54:09.506
kinds of, like, if you look at it, like, You you wanna look at it

840
00:54:09.506 –> 00:54:13.260
as addiction or if you wanna look at it as working out or exercising particular

841
00:54:13.400 –> 00:54:16.815
muscles, I started working,

842
00:54:17.055 –> 00:54:20.815
at this hemp shop and, like, I learned about Cbd and

843
00:54:20.815 –> 00:54:24.510
how the person described it is, like, Well, don’t think of, like, you’re gonna take

844
00:54:24.510 –> 00:54:28.049
cbd and you’re gonna feel a particular way. Mhmm. It’s a cbd.

845
00:54:28.589 –> 00:54:31.890
And if you’re having, stomach aches,

846
00:54:32.335 –> 00:54:36.115
a bowel issues, body, fibromyalgia, inflammation.

847
00:54:36.415 –> 00:54:39.715
It’s gonna start taking things away. And so I think

848
00:54:40.660 –> 00:54:44.440
somewhere along the way. A lot of, you know, people have confused.

849
00:54:45.059 –> 00:54:48.339
I’ve mistaken. I don’t know it’s for a better term, but, like, the darkness for

850
00:54:48.339 –> 00:54:51.555
the light. And so, don’t think those things are

851
00:54:52.255 –> 00:54:55.875
really measure out to, like, like, accuracy

852
00:54:56.335 –> 00:55:00.130
or an accurate portrayal. Actually, what’s what’s occurring. So it’s,

853
00:55:00.647 –> 00:55:01.730
Eric, yeah, Eric, Eric Wiseide talks about

854
00:55:07.174 –> 00:55:10.535
And once you get to, like, the the tertiary level of, like,

855
00:55:11.494 –> 00:55:14.934
convolution — Mhmm. — your ability to process the

856
00:55:14.934 –> 00:55:18.290
information, determine reality becomes increasingly more difficult

857
00:55:18.290 –> 00:55:21.890
because you were 3 parts removed away from the actual

858
00:55:21.890 –> 00:55:25.250
event. And, I mean, we I actually haven’t

859
00:55:25.250 –> 00:55:29.065
seen But from what I understand, inception is kinda like that’s the deal.

860
00:55:30.405 –> 00:55:34.090
So so I mean, that hard is to sort of follow that. So what

861
00:55:34.090 –> 00:55:36.970
is what, like, as someone who is, so if you’re the person to to not

862
00:55:36.970 –> 00:55:37.470
be

863
00:55:45.035 –> 00:55:48.395
So be an example. I

864
00:55:48.395 –> 00:55:52.050
mean, you’re you’re, yeah, Well, I think you hit on something

865
00:55:52.050 –> 00:55:53.110
also with patience. Right? So years ago, Simon Sydney made this

866
00:55:56.610 –> 00:55:57.110
point.

867
00:56:01.285 –> 00:56:04.345
You can have anything you want right now.

868
00:56:05.204 –> 00:56:09.040
Just just ordering it up without consequence, right, So you

869
00:56:09.040 –> 00:56:12.800
could have you can have food. If you wanna order food, you can get it

870
00:56:12.800 –> 00:56:16.640
on DoorDash. If you want, movies, you can

871
00:56:16.640 –> 00:56:20.335
get them on Amazon can get them on Netflix. I mean, my kids and

872
00:56:20.335 –> 00:56:24.015
I watched, Super Mario Brothers movie the

873
00:56:24.015 –> 00:56:26.914
other day. Right? Like, my six year old loved that. Right?

874
00:56:29.920 –> 00:56:32.560
And and and, you know, I ordered it and boom, there it was. Right? If

875
00:56:32.560 –> 00:56:33.380
you want

876
00:56:37.454 –> 00:56:41.135
to have a book. Right? You you get it next day

877
00:56:41.135 –> 00:56:44.970
delivery. You don’t have to wait. Like, if I wanted to order, I didn’t this,

878
00:56:44.970 –> 00:56:47.770
but if I wanted to order the hotbed, I can have it within 24 hours.

879
00:56:47.770 –> 00:56:48.990
Right? Not a problem.

880
00:56:51.530 –> 00:56:53.960
So there’s this there’s this gap between

881
00:56:55.125 –> 00:56:58.645
even even even in more intimate relationships, right, or

882
00:56:58.645 –> 00:57:02.484
intimate relations. If I go on Tinder, which I wouldn’t, but I’ve

883
00:57:02.484 –> 00:57:06.200
heard rumors that, you know, I swipe left. I swipe right. Somebody

884
00:57:06.200 –> 00:57:09.720
shows up to my house. Boom. Like, I’m a stud. I don’t have to, like,

885
00:57:09.720 –> 00:57:13.335
work through the whole, like, asking somebody something and then having them

886
00:57:13.335 –> 00:57:16.055
reject me, then I’m gonna deal with the rejection. I have to do the 30,

887
00:57:16.055 –> 00:57:19.515
40, 50 times. I don’t have to work that muscle because, like,

888
00:57:19.975 –> 00:57:23.529
boom. Now I I do know there’s a moving path these

889
00:57:23.529 –> 00:57:27.289
dating apps because that’s worked all kinds of different interpersonal relationships. Sometimes

890
00:57:27.289 –> 00:57:31.035
we’re gonna get into all but our technology hasn’t really served our

891
00:57:31.035 –> 00:57:34.395
biology and biology will will out at the end of the day. It just it

892
00:57:34.395 –> 00:57:38.240
just will. Okay. So

893
00:57:38.240 –> 00:57:41.760
we have all these technologies, and you mentioned this several times that can give us

894
00:57:41.760 –> 00:57:45.300
immediacy, right, that can close the gap between our desires and our wants,

895
00:57:45.664 –> 00:57:49.424
and the material filling of those with the exception

896
00:57:49.424 –> 00:57:51.045
of life satisfaction and meaning.

897
00:57:55.730 –> 00:57:58.869
Alright. No app for that. Those are slow,

898
00:57:59.730 –> 00:58:02.070
painful, patient driven processes,

899
00:58:03.414 –> 00:58:06.875
and we’ve confused our materialistic needs

900
00:58:07.494 –> 00:58:11.035
for meaning. And I don’t

901
00:58:12.670 –> 00:58:16.510
know how we return back to a time

902
00:58:16.510 –> 00:58:19.340
when those two things were definitively separate?

903
00:58:21.005 –> 00:58:23.825
And we knew the differences between those two things.

904
00:58:25.325 –> 00:58:28.865
And maybe we don’t return back to it. Maybe it’s a moving forward

905
00:58:29.859 –> 00:58:33.619
where those materialistic things are are less

906
00:58:33.619 –> 00:58:36.290
emphasized and more of the

907
00:58:37.625 –> 00:58:40.765
the things that Tolkien or Lewis, right,

908
00:58:41.065 –> 00:58:44.905
would would engage around or Shakespeare or whoever, which were more of

909
00:58:44.905 –> 00:58:48.730
the spiritual and emotional things become take take more press it. Now that sounds

910
00:58:48.730 –> 00:58:52.190
wuji wuji and, like, age of Aquarius, and I’m not that guy.

911
00:58:52.570 –> 00:58:56.410
I think there’s very hard headed practical ways you can do

912
00:58:56.410 –> 00:58:59.894
that. But I think it’s a really

913
00:58:59.894 –> 00:59:03.654
hard sell. And it’s interesting that you opened up with this idea that,

914
00:59:03.654 –> 00:59:07.240
you know, the genius is in the application, not the idea. The

915
00:59:07.240 –> 00:59:10.760
application is where the growth is. The application is where the patience

916
00:59:10.760 –> 00:59:14.600
is. And there’s very few people

917
00:59:14.600 –> 00:59:18.405
who apparently at least what I’m seeing, very few people who wanna do the application.

918
00:59:19.265 –> 00:59:23.025
They just want the idea. It’s like lottery winners. They’re probably way

919
00:59:23.025 –> 00:59:26.609
more susceptible to kind of like, going

920
00:59:26.609 –> 00:59:29.670
broke than somebody who grew up in,

921
00:59:30.210 –> 00:59:33.825
single, a lower class house

922
00:59:33.825 –> 00:59:37.425
with a single parent and worked their time parts off

923
00:59:37.425 –> 00:59:40.865
— Right. — to to get everything that is and and

924
00:59:40.865 –> 00:59:43.910
so When you understand the

925
00:59:44.290 –> 00:59:48.050
cost — Mhmm. — and what it took

926
00:59:48.050 –> 00:59:51.795
to get there, it’s you know, you hold on for

927
00:59:51.795 –> 00:59:55.635
your life. And — But if we don’t understand

928
00:59:55.635 –> 00:59:58.195
the cost so this is my this is my concern. If we don’t understand the

929
00:59:58.195 –> 01:00:01.400
cost, if too many of us don’t understand then

930
01:00:03.960 –> 01:00:07.560
and Tolkien wrote all of his did all of his writing coming out of

931
01:00:07.560 –> 01:00:11.095
World War 1? And we kind of underestimate the power of

932
01:00:11.095 –> 01:00:14.795
that war, like how much that war shaped

933
01:00:17.030 –> 01:00:20.869
everything down until now. I mean, I’ve said this on the podcast before, but, like,

934
01:00:20.869 –> 01:00:24.470
our 20 year excursion into Iraq and Afghanistan, the

935
01:00:24.470 –> 01:00:28.015
United States went on at just like extricated ourselves from.

936
01:00:30.075 –> 01:00:33.830
That was all clean up from the Ottoman empire. Well,

937
01:00:33.830 –> 01:00:37.610
it’s funny. So you’re saying that we’re, like, we’re still there’s there’s the aftermath

938
01:00:37.670 –> 01:00:41.484
of the great depression is still prevalent today. And

939
01:00:41.484 –> 01:00:44.765
not until you’re saying this and outline these things, do you see that there’s you

940
01:00:44.765 –> 01:00:48.125
know, why? Because we see the cycles, we see it, and it’s brought up all

941
01:00:48.125 –> 01:00:51.480
the time, and you see has influence and continues to

942
01:00:51.480 –> 01:00:54.040
influence financial decisions. And

943
01:00:55.720 –> 01:00:59.000
yeah. Well, I just I just saw the movie, and we just did a review

944
01:00:59.000 –> 01:01:02.815
of it. Me and my other co host, Tom Libby, we just did an, an

945
01:01:02.815 –> 01:01:06.655
review of, the movie Oppenheimer as a bonus

946
01:01:06.655 –> 01:01:10.160
to our conversation around the fall of the house of usher. Right? And,

947
01:01:12.080 –> 01:01:14.400
I’m not gonna tell. I mean, you can go back and listen to the listen

948
01:01:14.400 –> 01:01:18.214
to the review, listen to the bonus episode. I’m not gonna get into that. However,

949
01:01:18.214 –> 01:01:21.815
what I will say is this, the number of

950
01:01:21.815 –> 01:01:25.630
deaths in warfare. Since World

951
01:01:25.630 –> 01:01:29.470
War 2 has dropped precipitously, like by a

952
01:01:29.470 –> 01:01:33.315
factor of a 100. Since the end of World

953
01:01:33.315 –> 01:01:36.515
War 2. And this is not just like it wars the United States quote unquote

954
01:01:36.515 –> 01:01:39.875
started. I’m talking about everywhere, everywhere across the

955
01:01:39.875 –> 01:01:43.220
planet. And it’s because the

956
01:01:43.280 –> 01:01:46.580
application of the idea of the atomic of atomic power

957
01:01:47.119 –> 01:01:50.955
that Einstein lamented Or if I had known, I

958
01:01:50.955 –> 01:01:52.175
would have become a watchmaker.

959
01:01:54.875 –> 01:01:57.855
The application of that idea scared the hell out of everybody.

960
01:01:58.670 –> 01:02:02.270
Like, at an existential level. Now he also

961
01:02:02.270 –> 01:02:05.790
said, I don’t know what weapons will be used to fight in World War

962
01:02:05.790 –> 01:02:09.155
3. But I know world war 4 will be fought with sticks and

963
01:02:09.155 –> 01:02:12.915
stones. That’s right. The application of an

964
01:02:12.915 –> 01:02:13.415
idea.

965
01:02:16.650 –> 01:02:20.090
And because that has scared the hell out of all of us, which by the

966
01:02:20.090 –> 01:02:23.655
way, it’s interesting. We sort of took a vacation from that between, like,

967
01:02:24.615 –> 01:02:27.675
1989 up until about 2020,

968
01:02:28.375 –> 01:02:32.055
2020, 2021 when the Russians all did us a favor and brought up all those

969
01:02:32.055 –> 01:02:35.720
monkey men moved the over to

970
01:02:35.720 –> 01:02:39.240
window, not forward, but backward. They moved the over to window backward to the cold

971
01:02:39.240 –> 01:02:42.665
war. And now the Russian boogie men is all living underneath our

972
01:02:44.505 –> 01:02:47.965
with nukes. It’s no so,

973
01:02:48.265 –> 01:02:52.025
like, we we now but we don’t have the tools right

974
01:02:52.025 –> 01:02:55.670
now. To deal with that existential dread. I mean, we barely had the tools during

975
01:02:55.670 –> 01:02:59.245
the time when when the cold war was going on for that that

976
01:02:59.325 –> 01:03:02.305
seventy year long as Ronald Reagan would have put a Twilight struggle.

977
01:03:03.885 –> 01:03:07.380
We barely had the existential and and

978
01:03:07.380 –> 01:03:10.820
moral and ethical and religious tools to deal with that then. We have none of

979
01:03:10.820 –> 01:03:13.700
those tools now. We’ve thrown all that out in our post modernism. We said we

980
01:03:13.700 –> 01:03:16.440
don’t need those. And now all we have is just the fear.

981
01:03:17.765 –> 01:03:21.445
And my concern is that in the

982
01:03:21.445 –> 01:03:23.785
sort of long rambling thought is that

983
01:03:25.770 –> 01:03:29.470
books like the Hobbit or the fall of the house of usher or

984
01:03:30.090 –> 01:03:33.609
we’re gonna be covering the sun also rises by Ernest Heming Way later on this

985
01:03:33.609 –> 01:03:37.405
year. We’ve already covered Shakespeare this year. We’ve

986
01:03:37.405 –> 01:03:40.785
talked about, you know, Black slave narratives,

987
01:03:42.045 –> 01:03:45.740
you know, the good earth my pearl buck. You

988
01:03:45.740 –> 01:03:49.260
know, in in looking at these books, I I think

989
01:03:49.260 –> 01:03:52.860
the the the solution to the existential dread is

990
01:03:52.860 –> 01:03:55.825
inside of the books. It’s inside of these places.

991
01:03:56.845 –> 01:04:00.445
It’s inside of these narratives, and we have to have the patience to to to

992
01:04:00.445 –> 01:04:03.600
circle around back to what you were talking about, we have to have the patience

993
01:04:03.600 –> 01:04:07.440
to go and explore inside of there. That’s the part to me that I

994
01:04:07.440 –> 01:04:10.740
don’t know how we get with the swipe left swipe right culture.

995
01:04:12.545 –> 01:04:16.145
It it’s it yeah. I mean,

996
01:04:16.145 –> 01:04:19.845
it’s it’s kind of the,

997
01:04:21.550 –> 01:04:25.210
leadership. That’s that’s so silly. But, I mean, 1st

998
01:04:25.210 –> 01:04:26.850
and foremost, if it

999
01:04:29.470 –> 01:04:33.065
is you know, this is your this is your this is your mission.

1000
01:04:34.085 –> 01:04:36.825
Yeah. This is the thing I’m on. Yeah. This is the thing I’m on. Yeah.

1001
01:04:36.884 –> 01:04:39.690
And you’re championing

1002
01:04:41.430 –> 01:04:45.280
these concepts that are increasingly becoming, like,

1003
01:04:45.280 –> 01:04:48.625
foreign. And

1004
01:04:49.405 –> 01:04:53.245
how to impart that wisdom and how to, like, you know, living righteously.

1005
01:04:53.245 –> 01:04:53.905
And so

1006
01:04:57.950 –> 01:05:01.390
Everything is, like, so many things in communication have have become

1007
01:05:01.390 –> 01:05:05.095
so broken down. To the

1008
01:05:05.095 –> 01:05:08.855
degree and the the my my personal situation in right now is,

1009
01:05:08.855 –> 01:05:12.615
like, is a great example of, like, we’re not even talking

1010
01:05:12.615 –> 01:05:16.359
about what we’re talking about. That no party knows, but is

1011
01:05:16.359 –> 01:05:20.040
even the topic. And it’s yelling into the void and it’s like

1012
01:05:20.040 –> 01:05:23.525
it’s it’s it’s I don’t know. Like, I it’s

1013
01:05:23.525 –> 01:05:27.365
feels it I don’t know. It just seems, some sort of,

1014
01:05:27.365 –> 01:05:31.040
like, brainwashing things is is

1015
01:05:31.040 –> 01:05:34.480
is is it’s — Well, maybe it’s but maybe it’s the

1016
01:05:34.480 –> 01:05:38.320
breakdown of mass communication. I will go back to the book here in

1017
01:05:38.320 –> 01:05:41.685
just a second. Maybe it’s the breakdown of mass communication because I think I think

1018
01:05:41.685 –> 01:05:45.445
there’s something to be said for everybody gathering around the television with only

1019
01:05:45.445 –> 01:05:49.220
three channels as a family. Or, like, my mom grew up, you

1020
01:05:49.220 –> 01:05:53.060
know, where there was only one TV on the block. Like, I I’ll

1021
01:05:53.060 –> 01:05:56.605
sometimes challenge younger groups or younger audiences chronologically,

1022
01:05:56.825 –> 01:06:00.665
younger audiences. I’ll say to them, imagine if I took away everybody’s cell phone

1023
01:06:00.665 –> 01:06:03.945
in this room when you all had to share one cell phone. And the look

1024
01:06:03.945 –> 01:06:07.790
of horror that comes on everybody’s face is undeniable.

1025
01:06:08.570 –> 01:06:11.530
And and and it well, it’s a it’s a mixture of a of look of

1026
01:06:11.530 –> 01:06:14.905
horror. With a look of just sort of I don’t even I can’t even

1027
01:06:14.905 –> 01:06:18.265
conceptualize what you just said to me. It’s literal

1028
01:06:18.265 –> 01:06:21.850
confusion. And so we went from a

1029
01:06:21.850 –> 01:06:25.480
society where that idea of

1030
01:06:27.045 –> 01:06:29.945
Everybody watching one television show around a TV

1031
01:06:31.045 –> 01:06:34.885
is not that much different than the family sitting around reading the

1032
01:06:34.885 –> 01:06:38.730
newspaper or reading a novel out loud. Like, that’s not a hard jump.

1033
01:06:39.190 –> 01:06:42.950
Yeah. Yeah. The the the big jump that we made in the

1034
01:06:42.950 –> 01:06:46.575
nineties and in the early two thousands was going from everybody sitting

1035
01:06:46.575 –> 01:06:50.335
around the TV to everyone having their own TV in their

1036
01:06:50.335 –> 01:06:54.175
own pocket. That’s a massive. That’s a massive jump. Thank

1037
01:06:54.175 –> 01:06:57.970
you, Steve Jobs. That’s a massive jump, and

1038
01:06:57.970 –> 01:07:00.710
that massive jump created societal disruption

1039
01:07:01.490 –> 01:07:05.265
because now I don’t have to engage with you in

1040
01:07:05.265 –> 01:07:08.945
the same space as you’re communicating in. I don’t

1041
01:07:08.945 –> 01:07:12.440
have to accept your idea if I don’t want to. I’m not

1042
01:07:12.440 –> 01:07:16.119
compelled to listen to you. I’m also not compelled to resist

1043
01:07:16.119 –> 01:07:19.895
you, but I’m I’m also not compelled to accept you. Right? And

1044
01:07:19.895 –> 01:07:22.935
so we really focus on the resistance part of it, but I really think we

1045
01:07:22.935 –> 01:07:26.375
should focus on the acceptance part of it. I’m not forced through

1046
01:07:26.375 –> 01:07:30.049
social norming to accept your idea. Instead, I can go pick a bunch of ideas

1047
01:07:30.049 –> 01:07:33.569
that I want to accept, go into the echo chamber there, have myself

1048
01:07:33.569 –> 01:07:36.684
reinforced, and then come out of that echo chamber, and now I gotta deal with

1049
01:07:36.684 –> 01:07:40.045
all your nonsense people. And instead of dealing with you, I’m just gonna be

1050
01:07:40.045 –> 01:07:43.805
passive. And the classic example of this that we see

1051
01:07:43.805 –> 01:07:47.030
now or I see recently, And this is gonna be an old man screaming from

1052
01:07:47.030 –> 01:07:50.550
the from the tower kind of thing. I fully admit this. But, like, I

1053
01:07:50.550 –> 01:07:54.135
can’t I can’t I can’t go into another customer

1054
01:07:54.135 –> 01:07:57.895
service situation where you have your your your wireless iPhone

1055
01:07:57.895 –> 01:08:01.674
earbuds in your ears.

1056
01:08:02.600 –> 01:08:06.440
And you’re serving me in some kind. You’re providing me customer service. I can’t

1057
01:08:06.440 –> 01:08:10.040
do it. I’m sorry. I I guess, yeah. Okay. You’re listening for your phone

1058
01:08:10.040 –> 01:08:12.825
because nobody gives it anybody a phone anymore. See, like, you have to have your

1059
01:08:12.825 –> 01:08:15.964
own phone if the owner wants to call you or manager or whoever.

1060
01:08:16.745 –> 01:08:20.425
I don’t care. That sounds like a you problem, not a me problem. The

1061
01:08:20.425 –> 01:08:24.149
me problem is I need to show up in that customer service experience

1062
01:08:24.210 –> 01:08:28.050
at Staples or at the local vendor with

1063
01:08:28.050 –> 01:08:31.795
you looking like you’re actually paying attention to me. If you’ve got an earbud in

1064
01:08:31.795 –> 01:08:35.314
your ear, I know you’re not listening to me. I know I’m not the most

1065
01:08:35.314 –> 01:08:39.075
interesting thing happening to you in your life. And right now at that moment, when

1066
01:08:39.075 –> 01:08:42.920
I have the window, wanna be the most interesting thing happening to you.

1067
01:08:44.420 –> 01:08:47.939
It is yeah. It, very

1068
01:08:47.939 –> 01:08:51.705
rarely. It it is increasingly difficult to remain in the

1069
01:08:51.705 –> 01:08:55.465
present moment. Well, not only that, it’s it’s

1070
01:08:55.465 –> 01:08:59.305
increasingly difficult to acknowledge not only that the present moment is.

1071
01:08:59.305 –> 01:09:03.130
You forget being in the present moment, it’s increasingly difficult to acknowledge the

1072
01:09:03.130 –> 01:09:05.870
presence of another human being

1073
01:09:06.890 –> 01:09:10.675
with a soul. Yes. I’m gonna go there. With a soul and

1074
01:09:10.675 –> 01:09:14.435
needs and emotions and ideas, I am not a I’m

1075
01:09:14.435 –> 01:09:18.229
not a I’m not a tool to be used for you. Right?

1076
01:09:18.229 –> 01:09:21.829
And this is why go back to the hot girl. This is why the

1077
01:09:21.829 –> 01:09:25.595
bartender can hire the hot girl rather than you. Because at

1078
01:09:25.595 –> 01:09:29.435
least the hot girl will the customer will pay attention to the hot

1079
01:09:29.435 –> 01:09:31.995
girl. And by the way, this cuts both ways, by the way. So you’ve got

1080
01:09:31.995 –> 01:09:35.460
rude customers and increasingly We saw this before COVID.

1081
01:09:36.000 –> 01:09:39.520
But increasingly, you were seeing rudeness of people in social in in,

1082
01:09:39.840 –> 01:09:43.380
in customer service situations where customers were treating

1083
01:09:44.895 –> 01:09:48.734
employees like they were garbage. And you still see that. And so

1084
01:09:48.734 –> 01:09:52.175
now it’s but now it’s even down. Now it’s happening on both sides. Now we

1085
01:09:52.175 –> 01:09:53.700
can both treat each other like garbage.

1086
01:09:55.700 –> 01:09:59.380
Yay. We’ve advanced the civilization. We’ve

1087
01:09:59.380 –> 01:10:03.045
moved us a step closer to utopia rather than a step

1088
01:10:03.045 –> 01:10:06.725
closer to dystopia. And it’s all our

1089
01:10:06.725 –> 01:10:10.550
fault. And I’ll admit it. I’m I’m sometimes terrible with customer service people

1090
01:10:10.550 –> 01:10:13.190
but I’m more inclined to be terrible with them if they have an earbud in

1091
01:10:13.190 –> 01:10:16.570
their ear. I I I I have to I have to

1092
01:10:16.790 –> 01:10:20.515
admit if Similarly, they’re doing customer service for whole, I

1093
01:10:20.515 –> 01:10:24.215
mean, and and and — Yep. You know, we’re we’re pretty kind people.

1094
01:10:24.355 –> 01:10:28.110
The other day, I I was I was unnecessarily rude to the lady at

1095
01:10:28.110 –> 01:10:31.310
the at the at where I pay my rent, the the lady working the and

1096
01:10:31.310 –> 01:10:34.590
I I’m gonna go and actually don’t make amends to her and apologize because it

1097
01:10:34.590 –> 01:10:38.175
was like, something happened in my life that I couldn’t be able to just

1098
01:10:38.494 –> 01:10:42.094
and I it it very rarely happens, but it affected that

1099
01:10:42.094 –> 01:10:44.675
particular moment. I unnecessarily treat a person

1100
01:10:45.739 –> 01:10:49.580
unkindly, or not even unkindly, just, just terse and Cors and, and, and,

1101
01:10:49.580 –> 01:10:51.040
it was a long call for.

1102
01:10:53.435 –> 01:10:57.135
Which made me think of, like because we were talking about, like, that fundamental plan,

1103
01:10:58.795 –> 01:11:02.235
absence or the fundamental difference in, like, how to, like, educate your

1104
01:11:02.235 –> 01:11:05.939
brain. At some point, and that is that’s why it’s such a big

1105
01:11:06.059 –> 01:11:09.659
because at some point, it becomes like, oh, is this just

1106
01:11:09.659 –> 01:11:13.395
propaganda? Right. Okay. This

1107
01:11:13.395 –> 01:11:17.235
is how you talk to people. You know, you imagine can you imagine PSAs coming

1108
01:11:17.235 –> 01:11:20.355
out all over the place? Like, this is how you engage. You know what I

1109
01:11:20.355 –> 01:11:24.070
mean? Like, it becomes It’s like we’ve aged backward to become like children

1110
01:11:24.070 –> 01:11:27.830
again because we’ve lost, like, the the the the the just decent

1111
01:11:27.830 –> 01:11:31.525
the the the the manners. I feel like I

1112
01:11:32.324 –> 01:11:35.625
and yeah. Yes. Well, it’s it’s it’s

1113
01:11:36.565 –> 01:11:40.370
I can’t remember what episode of the podcast it was. But we talked

1114
01:11:40.370 –> 01:11:44.130
about and I can’t remember what book it was. It’ll come to me in a

1115
01:11:44.130 –> 01:11:47.730
minute, but we talked about the importance of politeness. It’s sort of

1116
01:11:47.730 –> 01:11:51.375
how Even if I disagree with you, I still

1117
01:11:51.375 –> 01:11:55.135
need to be polite. Now these days, we

1118
01:11:55.135 –> 01:11:56.835
chalk that up, or we say

1119
01:12:00.710 –> 01:12:04.090
We say that such an attitude or posture is

1120
01:12:05.750 –> 01:12:08.295
a sign of white supremacy. It should be thrown over.

1121
01:12:10.375 –> 01:12:13.975
But I I I pull up short on that. I say being polite is white

1122
01:12:13.975 –> 01:12:14.475
supremacy.

1123
01:12:17.420 –> 01:12:17.920
Really?

1124
01:12:22.219 –> 01:12:26.054
Really? So, yeah, so, yeah, so so

1125
01:12:26.515 –> 01:12:30.275
so so simple simple things as

1126
01:12:30.275 –> 01:12:33.520
politeness have become politicized,

1127
01:12:34.620 –> 01:12:36.320
and, and, and,

1128
01:12:38.220 –> 01:12:40.560
noted as a demarcation of, of,

1129
01:12:42.675 –> 01:12:45.095
80 another race is

1130
01:12:46.115 –> 01:12:49.580
completely bananas. It’s not only is it bananas.

1131
01:12:49.719 –> 01:12:52.540
It’s you talked about coarseness,

1132
01:12:53.960 –> 01:12:56.940
or, as my grandmother, my grandmother, we use a word, uncouthness.

1133
01:12:59.055 –> 01:13:01.935
It is a sign of a lack of couth. Now I don’t know what couth

1134
01:13:01.935 –> 01:13:05.075
is, but I know you don’t have it if you’re treating people

1135
01:13:05.375 –> 01:13:09.139
terribly. I also know

1136
01:13:09.139 –> 01:13:12.820
that a society cannot long survive. Not a

1137
01:13:12.820 –> 01:13:16.270
civilization. Civilization will be fine, but a society cannot

1138
01:13:16.270 –> 01:13:18.965
survive. Very long.

1139
01:13:19.985 –> 01:13:23.585
If interpersonal relationships at

1140
01:13:23.585 –> 01:13:26.725
the furthest edges, like in a customer service situation,

1141
01:13:27.620 –> 01:13:31.000
are driven by uncouthness and and

1142
01:13:31.780 –> 01:13:35.555
terceness and being impolite. And I know

1143
01:13:35.555 –> 01:13:39.395
social media has made it seem like we’re all in communities together, but that’s you

1144
01:13:39.395 –> 01:13:43.075
talk about propaganda. That’s propaganda in and of itself. That’s propaganda, by the way,

1145
01:13:43.075 –> 01:13:46.920
pushed by Facebook. It’s propaganda push by LinkedIn. It’s propaganda push by

1146
01:13:46.920 –> 01:13:50.280
Instagram. It’s propaganda, whatever the hell they’re calling themselves. It’s

1147
01:13:50.280 –> 01:13:53.835
propaganda push by YouTube. You’re not connected to those people.

1148
01:13:53.835 –> 01:13:57.675
Goal. You know, I’ve often said, like, I

1149
01:13:57.675 –> 01:14:00.094
don’t I don’t really care what, you know,

1150
01:14:02.300 –> 01:14:06.140
hotgirl65@yahoo.com has to say about my podcast. Like,

1151
01:14:06.140 –> 01:14:09.679
I don’t I’m glad that that person has an opinion maybe.

1152
01:14:10.375 –> 01:14:14.075
But, like, I don’t save your review.

1153
01:14:14.375 –> 01:14:18.135
Go bother someone else because anonymity doesn’t

1154
01:14:18.135 –> 01:14:21.579
interest me. If you have any guts, you’re gonna put your name on

1155
01:14:21.579 –> 01:14:25.020
it, because you’re gonna own it.

1156
01:14:25.020 –> 01:14:28.744
Right? And and by the way, I’ve lived out that principle. Most of

1157
01:14:28.744 –> 01:14:31.264
the things you see online, if you go Google my name, most of the things

1158
01:14:31.264 –> 01:14:34.204
you’ll see online, good, bad, ugly, or indifferent, I put my name on it.

1159
01:14:35.590 –> 01:14:39.350
I’ve said this before on this podcast. The vast majority of my tweets

1160
01:14:39.350 –> 01:14:43.185
are probably objectionable to somebody. And they’re all defensible,

1161
01:14:43.565 –> 01:14:46.765
and I will apologize for none of them. And if you wanna cancel me off

1162
01:14:46.765 –> 01:14:50.340
a Twitter or or x or whatever, okay, that’s fine. I don’t really care.

1163
01:14:50.800 –> 01:14:54.020
I’m not high enough up on the ladder for you to pay attention to anyway.

1164
01:14:55.600 –> 01:14:59.245
But, like, but, like, but, like, people don’t understand that you

1165
01:14:59.245 –> 01:15:01.745
have to defend not defend.

1166
01:15:05.869 –> 01:15:08.849
Being polite is part of the lubrication of society.

1167
01:15:09.790 –> 01:15:13.585
It’s part of what makes things go forward. And by the way, the Hobbits this

1168
01:15:13.585 –> 01:15:17.345
is something that you see because Tolkien was a student of language. That’s

1169
01:15:17.345 –> 01:15:20.735
what Philology is. He understood the nature of

1170
01:15:21.360 –> 01:15:24.880
what is hidden inside of the language of politeness. And it’s more than

1171
01:15:24.880 –> 01:15:28.500
just making things just run.

1172
01:15:28.720 –> 01:15:31.235
It’s also honoring It’s also,

1173
01:15:32.335 –> 01:15:36.175
elevating. It’s also bringing people into a different kind of

1174
01:15:36.175 –> 01:15:40.020
space. All these things are happening inside of language. Look, you know,

1175
01:15:40.020 –> 01:15:43.460
you said he’s an Oxford man. And so, the

1176
01:15:43.460 –> 01:15:43.960
politeness.

1177
01:15:48.715 –> 01:15:52.235
You know, and and unless there was a sort of, like, an illusion to

1178
01:15:52.235 –> 01:15:54.014
that. And

1179
01:15:56.850 –> 01:15:59.670
In the this so this is why

1180
01:16:01.330 –> 01:16:05.005
at least in my opinion experience that something like this is a

1181
01:16:05.025 –> 01:16:08.764
Suaron having good and polite manners is is not

1182
01:16:08.764 –> 01:16:10.945
necessarily the end on be all. However, if it is something that

1183
01:16:13.405 –> 01:16:17.210
is culturally significant and has been represented through the population

1184
01:16:17.429 –> 01:16:20.170
of the the island of England.

1185
01:16:21.295 –> 01:16:24.835
Then you could also say that they’re, like, the

1186
01:16:25.375 –> 01:16:29.130
characteristics inherent in the Native American population, as

1187
01:16:29.130 –> 01:16:32.330
far as, the conversations that I had when I worked at a rehab,

1188
01:16:35.290 –> 01:16:38.605
someone said to me once, when I we were having a conversation,

1189
01:16:38.905 –> 01:16:42.664
and I said, I just noticed that it takes up you take you take a

1190
01:16:42.664 –> 01:16:46.105
breath and you kind of, like, you take a few seconds up to a minute

1191
01:16:46.105 –> 01:16:49.599
to to, you know, to to respond to my

1192
01:16:49.599 –> 01:16:53.219
question. And they said, well, you know, I’m thinking about how

1193
01:16:54.135 –> 01:16:57.574
what’s gonna come out of my mouth is gonna affect the next 3 generations of

1194
01:16:57.574 –> 01:17:00.395
people. And so that is

1195
01:17:01.420 –> 01:17:03.920
an aspect that is a a a cultural. And so I think

1196
01:17:10.074 –> 01:17:11.614
commodionizing has an

1197
01:17:16.155 –> 01:17:19.510
an kinda like shave off any

1198
01:17:19.650 –> 01:17:23.410
cultural, I don’t know, let’s say

1199
01:17:23.410 –> 01:17:26.885
norms or practices or traditions or or

1200
01:17:26.885 –> 01:17:30.505
just, I don’t know, a personality character

1201
01:17:30.645 –> 01:17:34.420
similarly to the, the dwarves you know,

1202
01:17:34.420 –> 01:17:37.460
love and the only thing it’s it’s and so that’s I don’t know if that’s

1203
01:17:37.460 –> 01:17:40.100
kind of like in the vein of — Mhmm. — or but it seems like

1204
01:17:40.100 –> 01:17:42.360
culturally significant. And so I don’t know.

1205
01:17:45.585 –> 01:17:49.265
Ryan’s gonna chew on this more, but we’re gonna go back to the book. Back

1206
01:17:49.265 –> 01:17:52.880
to the Hobbit. We are reading

1207
01:17:52.940 –> 01:17:56.780
the, the Ballantine Books

1208
01:17:56.780 –> 01:18:00.485
edition. Published in 1981,

1209
01:18:00.565 –> 01:18:01.635
by, by, random house,

1210
01:18:09.790 –> 01:18:13.470
published with it by an arrangement with Houghton Mifflin Company. So this

1211
01:18:13.470 –> 01:18:16.830
is our version, or this is this is my version that we’re reading from

1212
01:18:16.830 –> 01:18:20.575
today. This version, by the way, also has a cover

1213
01:18:20.575 –> 01:18:24.015
painting. Bilbo comes to the hut huts of the

1214
01:18:24.015 –> 01:18:27.680
raft elves that was by JRR Tolkien because he was

1215
01:18:27.680 –> 01:18:31.360
also a, a painter and, a little bit of a

1216
01:18:31.360 –> 01:18:35.175
little bit of a, doodler as well. By the way, the

1217
01:18:35.175 –> 01:18:38.695
Valentine books version of the Hobbit, the authorized

1218
01:18:38.695 –> 01:18:42.469
edition of the Hobbit has never been out of print. Since it was

1219
01:18:42.469 –> 01:18:46.230
in print, 1st in the

1220
01:18:46.230 –> 01:18:49.815
19 thirties. Okay? And so That’s

1221
01:18:49.815 –> 01:18:53.495
just something to that’s just something to note 1937. So that’s

1222
01:18:53.495 –> 01:18:55.515
just something to something to note.

1223
01:18:58.830 –> 01:19:02.270
By the way, this version also has maps in it, and so you may wanna

1224
01:19:02.270 –> 01:19:05.765
take a look at that. And it has an

1225
01:19:05.765 –> 01:19:09.525
introduction, written by, Peter

1226
01:19:09.525 –> 01:19:12.745
S Beagle, from Watsonville, California.

1227
01:19:14.570 –> 01:19:17.610
Some interesting things in that that you may wanna check out. Alright. So we’re gonna

1228
01:19:17.610 –> 01:19:20.569
go to chapter 2 here. Roast suaron.

1229
01:19:35.370 –> 01:19:37.949
This is this takes place just after,

1230
01:19:39.605 –> 01:19:43.365
Bill Bo goes to sleep and gets up in the morning after all of the

1231
01:19:43.365 –> 01:19:46.745
doors basically eat him out of house and home.

1232
01:19:47.125 –> 01:19:50.910
And, he’s a little a little resentful. So we’re kinda going back

1233
01:19:50.910 –> 01:19:54.670
in time a little bit way before the dragon and a whole bunch of other

1234
01:19:54.670 –> 01:19:58.485
things. So Gandalf asks him

1235
01:19:58.485 –> 01:19:59.224
this question.

1236
01:20:02.085 –> 01:20:05.810
My dear fellow, said he, and this is Gandalf. Whenever are

1237
01:20:05.810 –> 01:20:09.409
you going to come? What about an early start? And here you are having breakfast

1238
01:20:09.409 –> 01:20:13.195
or whatever you call it, a half past 10. They left you the message because

1239
01:20:13.195 –> 01:20:16.955
they could not wait. What message said poor Mister Baggins all

1240
01:20:16.955 –> 01:20:20.630
in a fluster? Great elephants said Gandalf, are not at all

1241
01:20:20.630 –> 01:20:23.290
yourself this morning. You have never dusted the mantelpiece.

1242
01:20:24.390 –> 01:20:26.870
What’s that got to do with it? I’ve had enough to do with washing up

1243
01:20:26.870 –> 01:20:30.555
for 14. If you had dusted the mantelpiece, you would have

1244
01:20:30.555 –> 01:20:34.235
found this just under the clock, said Gandalf, ending Bilbo a note

1245
01:20:34.235 –> 01:20:37.949
written, of course, on his own note paper. This

1246
01:20:37.949 –> 01:20:41.409
is what he read. Thorne and company to burglar

1247
01:20:41.790 –> 01:20:45.555
Bilbo greeting. For your hospitality, our Cecilia Thanks, and for

1248
01:20:45.555 –> 01:20:48.535
your offer of professional assistance, our grateful acceptance,

1249
01:20:48.915 –> 01:20:52.595
terms. Cash on delivery up to and not exceeding 114th of total

1250
01:20:52.595 –> 01:20:56.250
profits, if any. All traveling expenses guaranteed in any event.

1251
01:20:57.110 –> 01:21:00.790
Funeral expenses to be defrayed by us or our representatives if occasion

1252
01:21:00.790 –> 01:21:04.454
arises and the matter is not otherwise arranged for. Thinking it

1253
01:21:04.454 –> 01:21:08.054
unnecessary to disturb your esteemed repose, we have proceeded in advance to

1254
01:21:08.054 –> 01:21:11.735
make requisite preparations and shall await your respected person at the

1255
01:21:11.735 –> 01:21:15.490
green dragon in by water at 11 AM suaron, trusting that

1256
01:21:15.490 –> 01:21:19.250
she will be punctual. We have the honor to remain

1257
01:21:19.250 –> 01:21:22.975
yours deeply, foreign, and company. That leaves

1258
01:21:22.975 –> 01:21:26.815
you just 10 minutes. You will have to run to Gandalf. But said Bilbo. No

1259
01:21:26.815 –> 01:21:30.015
time for it to the wizard. But said Bilbo again. No time for that either.

1260
01:21:30.015 –> 01:21:33.700
Off you go. To the end of his days, Bilbo could

1261
01:21:33.700 –> 01:21:37.540
never remember how he found himself outside without a hat, walking stick, or

1262
01:21:37.540 –> 01:21:41.344
any money. Or anything that he usually took when he went

1263
01:21:41.344 –> 01:21:45.185
out, leaving his second breakfast half finished and quite had

1264
01:21:45.185 –> 01:21:49.030
washed up. Pushing his keys into Gandalf’s hands and running as fast as his furry

1265
01:21:49.030 –> 01:21:52.230
feet could carry him down the lane past the great mill across the water and

1266
01:21:52.230 –> 01:21:54.170
then on for a whole mile or more.

1267
01:21:55.815 –> 01:21:58.375
Very puffed he was when he got to buy water just on the stroke of

1268
01:21:58.375 –> 01:22:02.215
11, it found that he had come without a pocket handkerchief. Bravo said

1269
01:22:02.215 –> 01:22:05.640
Bevin, who’s standing at the indoor looking out for him. Just then all the others

1270
01:22:05.640 –> 01:22:08.120
came around the corner of the road from the village. They were on ponies, and

1271
01:22:08.120 –> 01:22:11.480
each county was slung about with all kinds of baggages, packages, parcels, and

1272
01:22:11.480 –> 01:22:15.195
paraphernalia. There was a very small pony, apparently, for

1273
01:22:15.195 –> 01:22:18.735
Bilbo. Up you two gut and off we go, said Thornton.

1274
01:22:18.955 –> 01:22:21.675
I’m awfully sorry you said Bilbo, but I’ve come without my hat, and I’ve left

1275
01:22:21.675 –> 01:22:24.860
my pocket handkerchief high, and I haven’t got any money, I didn’t get your note

1276
01:22:24.860 –> 01:22:28.620
until after 10:45 to be precise. Don’t be precise, Sid Wallin,

1277
01:22:28.620 –> 01:22:32.075
and don’t worry. You will have to manage without pocket and a good many other

1278
01:22:32.075 –> 01:22:35.515
things before you get to the journey’s end. As for a hat, I’ve got a

1279
01:22:35.515 –> 01:22:39.340
spear hood and cloak in my luggage. That’s how they all came to a

1280
01:22:39.340 –> 01:22:43.020
start. Jogging off from the end 1 fine morning just before May on leading ponies

1281
01:22:43.020 –> 01:22:46.380
in Bilba was wearing a dark green hood, a little weather stained, and a dark

1282
01:22:46.380 –> 01:22:49.965
green cloak borrowed from Suaron. They were too large for him, and he looked

1283
01:22:49.965 –> 01:22:53.725
rather comic, but his father, Bongo, would have thought of him, I dare not think.

1284
01:22:53.725 –> 01:22:57.085
His only comfort was that he couldn’t be mistaken for a dwarf as he had

1285
01:22:57.085 –> 01:23:00.670
no beard. They have not been varying very long. When it came

1286
01:23:00.670 –> 01:23:04.510
again, I’ll very splendid on a white horse. Pause

1287
01:23:04.510 –> 01:23:08.054
here, by the way. Through the book of revelations,

1288
01:23:08.994 –> 01:23:12.454
Jesus comes on a white horse.

1289
01:23:14.410 –> 01:23:18.170
I thought I’d point that out. Back to the book. He had brought a lot

1290
01:23:18.170 –> 01:23:21.954
of pocket handkerchiefs and Bill Bull’s pipe and tobacco. So after

1291
01:23:21.954 –> 01:23:25.315
that, the party went along very merrily, and they told stories or sang songs as

1292
01:23:25.315 –> 01:23:28.989
they wrote forward all day, except, of course, when they stopped for meals. These

1293
01:23:28.989 –> 01:23:31.869
even come quite as often as Bill would have liked them, but still he began

1294
01:23:31.869 –> 01:23:35.710
to feel that adventures were not so bad after all. At first,

1295
01:23:35.710 –> 01:23:39.355
they had passed through Hobbit Lands, a wild, respectable country inhabited by

1296
01:23:39.355 –> 01:23:42.875
decent folk with good roads and enter 2 and now and then a door for

1297
01:23:42.875 –> 01:23:46.520
a farmer, amply, buy on business, Then they came to lands where people spoke

1298
01:23:46.520 –> 01:23:50.119
strangely and sang songs, but what I’d ever heard before. Now they had

1299
01:23:50.119 –> 01:23:53.695
gotten on far into the lonely where there were no people left, no ends, and

1300
01:23:53.695 –> 01:23:57.455
the roads could steadily worse. Not far ahead were Jerry Hills rising

1301
01:23:57.455 –> 01:24:01.280
higher and higher dark with trees. On some of them were old castles with an

1302
01:24:01.280 –> 01:24:04.960
evil look that they had been built by wicked people. Everything seemed

1303
01:24:04.960 –> 01:24:08.260
gloomy for the weather that day had taken a nasty turn.

1304
01:24:09.025 –> 01:24:12.224
Mostly it had been good as making beef even in fairy tales, but now it

1305
01:24:12.224 –> 01:24:15.264
was cold and wet. In the loan lands, they had to camp where they could,

1306
01:24:15.264 –> 01:24:19.020
but at least it had been dry. I think it will soon be

1307
01:24:19.020 –> 01:24:22.060
June, Grumble Bill Bo as he splashed along. We have the others in a very

1308
01:24:22.060 –> 01:24:25.500
muddy track. It was after tea time. It was pouring with rain. It had been

1309
01:24:25.500 –> 01:24:28.705
all day. His soda was dripping into his eyes. Cloak was full of water. The

1310
01:24:28.705 –> 01:24:31.665
pony was tired and stumbled on the stones, and the others were too grumpy to

1311
01:24:31.665 –> 01:24:35.505
talk. And I’m sure the rain has got into the dry clothes, into the

1312
01:24:35.505 –> 01:24:39.110
food bags, thought Bilbo. Bother burgling and everything to do with it. I wish I

1313
01:24:39.110 –> 01:24:41.989
was at home by my nice hole by the fire with the kettle just beginning

1314
01:24:41.989 –> 01:24:45.130
to sing. It was not the last time that you wished that.

1315
01:24:49.085 –> 01:24:52.445
Notice of the hobbit. So we’re behind the gray clouds. The sun must have gone

1316
01:24:52.445 –> 01:24:56.269
down for beginning to dark. Wind got up, and the Willow’s along the riverbank

1317
01:24:56.329 –> 01:24:59.849
bent inside. I don’t know what river it was, a rushing red one, smaller with

1318
01:24:59.849 –> 01:25:03.355
the rains of the last few days that came down from the hills. The mountains

1319
01:25:03.355 –> 01:25:07.114
in front of them. Soon, it was nearly dark. The winds broke up

1320
01:25:07.114 –> 01:25:10.760
the gray clouds and a waning moon appeared above the hills, between the flying

1321
01:25:10.760 –> 01:25:14.600
rags, then they stopped and thoran muttered something about supper, and where should we

1322
01:25:14.600 –> 01:25:18.364
get a dry patch to sleep on? Not until then, do they know as the

1323
01:25:18.364 –> 01:25:21.645
Gandoff was missing? So far, he had come all the way with him, never saying

1324
01:25:21.645 –> 01:25:25.425
if he was in the adventure or merely keeping them company for a while.

1325
01:25:26.120 –> 01:25:29.800
He had eaten most, talked most, and laughed most, but now he was

1326
01:25:29.800 –> 01:25:32.380
simply not there at all.

1327
01:25:33.625 –> 01:25:37.065
Just when a wizard would have been most useful to, groan Dori and Nori, who

1328
01:25:37.065 –> 01:25:39.965
shared the Hopins’ views about regular meals, plenty, and often.

1329
01:25:40.750 –> 01:25:43.550
Decided in the end that they would have to camp where they were. So far,

1330
01:25:43.550 –> 01:25:46.510
they had not camped before on this journey, although they knew that they soon would

1331
01:25:46.510 –> 01:25:50.190
have to camp regularly when they were among the misty mountains and

1332
01:25:50.190 –> 01:25:53.905
far from the lands of respectable people, it seemed a bad wet

1333
01:25:53.905 –> 01:25:57.105
evening to begin on. They moved to a clump of trees, and though it was

1334
01:25:57.105 –> 01:26:00.270
drier under them, the wind shook the rain off the leaves, and the drip drip

1335
01:26:00.270 –> 01:26:04.050
was most annoying. Also, the mischief seemed to have gotten into the fire.

1336
01:26:04.350 –> 01:26:07.845
Dwarbs can make a fire almost anywhere Out of almost anything

1337
01:26:08.225 –> 01:26:11.985
wind or no wind, but they could not do it that night, not even Oyne

1338
01:26:11.985 –> 01:26:15.125
and Gloyn who are especially good at it.

1339
01:26:24.175 –> 01:26:28.015
It’s a dangerous thing to leave your house and go out

1340
01:26:28.015 –> 01:26:31.810
on the road, Mister Baggins. It’s

1341
01:26:31.810 –> 01:26:35.330
a dangerous thing to be hustled and bustled and pushed

1342
01:26:35.330 –> 01:26:39.030
out. However,

1343
01:26:40.114 –> 01:26:43.875
there are some things maybe we can take from Billbo being

1344
01:26:43.875 –> 01:26:47.554
shoved out the door. The first thing is a word of

1345
01:26:47.554 –> 01:26:51.080
warning. So when wizard when a wizard comes

1346
01:26:51.080 –> 01:26:53.820
knocking, unless you want an adventure, don’t go answering.

1347
01:26:54.760 –> 01:26:58.465
Now if the wizard picks you, particularly a

1348
01:26:58.465 –> 01:26:59.765
wizard on a white horse.

1349
01:27:02.785 –> 01:27:05.925
You may wanna ask him some very salient questions.

1350
01:27:07.840 –> 01:27:11.520
The other thing that we see in Tolkien, and he was notorious for

1351
01:27:11.520 –> 01:27:14.880
this. Again, he took ideas that he’d had in the Hobbit and concepts that he

1352
01:27:14.880 –> 01:27:18.275
built in the Hobbit and put them on steroids to the lord of the rings.

1353
01:27:18.335 –> 01:27:22.175
But we begin to see this idea that the landscape and the language

1354
01:27:22.175 –> 01:27:25.870
and the people are all united as 1. So if there are

1355
01:27:25.870 –> 01:27:29.710
dark and evil tidings in the buildings, guarantee you they were

1356
01:27:29.710 –> 01:27:33.205
built by dark and evil people. The roads get worse. The

1357
01:27:33.205 –> 01:27:36.745
buildings get worse. The people get worse. The language gets rougher.

1358
01:27:37.205 –> 01:27:40.825
We miss this in our scientifically material age where

1359
01:27:41.230 –> 01:27:44.990
We tend to separate the spiritual from the material because

1360
01:27:44.990 –> 01:27:47.730
if we can’t see it, then it must not be there.

1361
01:27:49.695 –> 01:27:53.394
But we do reflect or the geography

1362
01:27:53.775 –> 01:27:57.550
does reflect our psychological makeup. Whether

1363
01:27:57.550 –> 01:28:00.130
we are comfortable with this idea or not.

1364
01:28:02.670 –> 01:28:06.485
By the way, the path that Bill Bo and the

1365
01:28:06.485 –> 01:28:10.245
dwarves are going on before they meet the dragon and go and try to get

1366
01:28:10.245 –> 01:28:13.620
the gold the the path that they’re on is a path of

1367
01:28:13.620 –> 01:28:17.220
malevolent and Tolkien does a really good job of showing

1368
01:28:17.220 –> 01:28:20.580
that atheist denialism has no answer for the

1369
01:28:20.580 –> 01:28:24.114
challenges evil represents. It really doesn’t.

1370
01:28:24.655 –> 01:28:28.175
And the more you’re challenged by the by the

1371
01:28:28.175 –> 01:28:31.980
existential geography around you, the more that impacts your

1372
01:28:31.980 –> 01:28:33.039
spiritual nature.

1373
01:28:36.940 –> 01:28:40.775
There’s another theme that you see here the tolkien begins to really push on

1374
01:28:40.775 –> 01:28:44.315
in this chapter. And it’s the idea that you gotta leave your hidey hole,

1375
01:28:44.615 –> 01:28:48.380
because salvation is individual and not collective. He’s really gonna lean

1376
01:28:48.380 –> 01:28:52.219
into this with Frodo. Bill Bo’s

1377
01:28:52.219 –> 01:28:55.895
nephew, but the point is that when

1378
01:28:55.895 –> 01:28:59.675
you go out your door, you’re chasing salvation. You’re you’re chasing

1379
01:29:00.295 –> 01:29:03.735
well, you’re chasing redemption. You’re chasing something there, and you’re the one that has to

1380
01:29:03.735 –> 01:29:06.340
do it. Your mom can’t do it for you. Your dad can’t do it for

1381
01:29:06.340 –> 01:29:08.720
you. Your family can’t do it for you. At a certain point, you have to

1382
01:29:08.720 –> 01:29:12.375
go out on the road on your own. And that road

1383
01:29:12.375 –> 01:29:15.835
will be a path through chaos, despair, and danger.

1384
01:29:16.375 –> 01:29:19.514
And you’re gonna need a guide. You’re gonna need a wizard.

1385
01:29:20.510 –> 01:29:22.770
You’re gonna you’re gonna need a Gandalf.

1386
01:29:26.110 –> 01:29:29.755
So, Ryan, Hogan leaders were tasked

1387
01:29:29.755 –> 01:29:33.275
with being Gandalf. How can they address the

1388
01:29:33.275 –> 01:29:36.860
complexities of the journey of life? A journey that is

1389
01:29:36.860 –> 01:29:40.380
sometimes that sometimes has chaos to spare a danger on

1390
01:29:40.380 –> 01:29:43.740
it, but also has good

1391
01:29:43.740 –> 01:29:47.364
times. And sometimes it’s like it’s like well, it’s

1392
01:29:47.364 –> 01:29:50.665
like war where nothing happens for very, very long stretches.

1393
01:29:51.205 –> 01:29:55.050
I board them in any week and sometimes set in. How do leaders

1394
01:29:55.590 –> 01:29:59.030
guide their followers down these roads? No.

1395
01:29:59.030 –> 01:30:02.489
It’s it’s it’s funny, and I’m not a social media person.

1396
01:30:03.055 –> 01:30:06.595
But the first thing that popped into my mind was was,

1397
01:30:09.855 –> 01:30:12.195
was, like, was, tempering

1398
01:30:13.840 –> 01:30:17.620
your output. Mhmm. I went to a Banksy

1399
01:30:18.239 –> 01:30:21.840
exhibit, you know, a couple months ago, and one of the quotes that he had

1400
01:30:21.840 –> 01:30:25.615
stenciled you know, it’s it’s part of an exhibit. The exhibit was,

1401
01:30:27.775 –> 01:30:30.515
be sure to take breaks so you don’t quit.

1402
01:30:32.030 –> 01:30:35.730
And that is a beautiful comment on

1403
01:30:36.030 –> 01:30:39.245
the immediacy. Issue

1404
01:30:40.265 –> 01:30:43.405
that we were having as far as, like, that engagement we were saying.

1405
01:30:44.105 –> 01:30:47.405
And and and Gandoff is kind of embodies

1406
01:30:47.465 –> 01:30:51.289
the Yeah. No. I’m the I’m the kind of the

1407
01:30:51.289 –> 01:30:54.969
the person who’s leading this because I’m eight hundred years old. I’ve

1408
01:30:54.969 –> 01:30:58.775
been there. I’ve done that. I’ll help

1409
01:30:58.775 –> 01:31:02.375
you guys out. I it’s tempered. It’s tempered. It’s paced.

1410
01:31:02.375 –> 01:31:05.880
It’s understanding your crowd, know your audience, understand the

1411
01:31:05.880 –> 01:31:09.340
environment and being of service to the mission.

1412
01:31:10.680 –> 01:31:14.344
And I think That is

1413
01:31:14.425 –> 01:31:18.185
so we could become of service to the fame, the glory, the money. We

1414
01:31:18.185 –> 01:31:21.304
become of service, all these other things that we talked about, or I mentioned as

1415
01:31:21.304 –> 01:31:24.940
far as, like, the wealth wealth has all different faces. And we’re I think

1416
01:31:25.100 –> 01:31:28.860
I don’t think we’re necessarily I think this is that that pawns us in

1417
01:31:28.860 –> 01:31:32.635
Orem is like, I think we say, wealth and

1418
01:31:32.695 –> 01:31:36.295
in our minds, more often than not, it

1419
01:31:36.295 –> 01:31:39.990
equates to, like, balance. And

1420
01:31:39.990 –> 01:31:43.510
I don’t like, I think that’s what, like, we think or what the goal is

1421
01:31:43.510 –> 01:31:46.810
or the intention is if I have this, then I will be that.

1422
01:31:47.425 –> 01:31:51.265
And I think the balance is probably the thing that we’re conflating with wealth.

1423
01:31:51.265 –> 01:31:54.245
And it’s like we probably want, you know, a stable,

1424
01:31:55.870 –> 01:31:59.170
tempered, even keel, you know, healthy,

1425
01:32:00.910 –> 01:32:04.670
spiritually on some level sound life, but it’s masked as

1426
01:32:04.670 –> 01:32:08.435
this other thing. I liked what

1427
01:32:10.974 –> 01:32:14.820
I liked what Tolkien does with the this

1428
01:32:14.820 –> 01:32:18.180
is this is the human nature. Back to the

1429
01:32:18.980 –> 01:32:22.440
be punctual. And then the very next, it says,

1430
01:32:22.875 –> 01:32:26.335
Donker, he says, no. No need to get hung up on details.

1431
01:32:26.715 –> 01:32:27.454
Right. Right.

1432
01:32:31.114 –> 01:32:34.640
A lot of So the the the complex

1433
01:32:34.860 –> 01:32:38.620
learning how to fight. Learning how to fight. That’s where that that,

1434
01:32:38.620 –> 01:32:42.185
like, take a break so you don’t quit. That’s what kinda translates to me. In

1435
01:32:42.185 –> 01:32:45.864
all my relationships, like, the reason for the

1436
01:32:45.864 –> 01:32:49.670
most part, they’ve all ended because the person who I

1437
01:32:49.670 –> 01:32:53.350
was engaged in some sort of argument with, neither of us had the skill all

1438
01:32:53.350 –> 01:32:57.135
keen on myself. I did not have the skill or the ability to want. To

1439
01:32:57.135 –> 01:33:00.574
know how the desire or whatever combination of all those things

1440
01:33:00.574 –> 01:33:04.010
to learn how to navigate whatever the issue was at the time.

1441
01:33:04.489 –> 01:33:08.170
And that is one of a it’s a major, you know, you

1442
01:33:08.170 –> 01:33:11.929
know, a downfall of mine. You know, it it it can be a little

1443
01:33:11.929 –> 01:33:15.745
murky and it affects me, you know, in a in a

1444
01:33:15.745 –> 01:33:19.505
particular way, but and even so also what talking does

1445
01:33:19.505 –> 01:33:23.200
is the time of distress He takes a

1446
01:33:23.200 –> 01:33:26.100
moment much like the cram, then he says,

1447
01:33:27.680 –> 01:33:31.335
the beautiful sky and the moon, like, It’s in the middle of this

1448
01:33:31.335 –> 01:33:34.635
tumultuous thing where this character is the conflicted

1449
01:33:34.935 –> 01:33:38.635
with being outside of the most comfortable environment

1450
01:33:38.855 –> 01:33:42.690
ever. His little his hobby and

1451
01:33:42.690 –> 01:33:45.650
out into the world and coming to terms with all of these things that are

1452
01:33:45.650 –> 01:33:49.364
happening simultaneously, converged once, and to not go mad he

1453
01:33:49.364 –> 01:33:53.145
says, look at that. The beautifuls. And whether that’s

1454
01:33:53.685 –> 01:33:55.545
what it’s in there, you know.

1455
01:33:57.680 –> 01:34:01.060
And also talked about the environment

1456
01:34:01.440 –> 01:34:05.284
and how, you know, there’s, like, kind of like Eastern versus

1457
01:34:05.284 –> 01:34:08.965
Western philosophies where you are your environment versus creating your

1458
01:34:08.965 –> 01:34:12.750
environment. Now and they have talked about this

1459
01:34:12.750 –> 01:34:16.370
before because it’s, it’s so powerful. The Santinones, writer,

1460
01:34:17.070 –> 01:34:20.910
journalist, wrote a book called, I think, Dreamland or return to Dreamland or

1461
01:34:20.910 –> 01:34:24.255
something like and it takes place in Ohio, and it’s about the,

1462
01:34:24.495 –> 01:34:27.215
black tar heroin trade that was really prevalent in the,

1463
01:34:28.255 –> 01:34:32.030
early, no, well, 2000, really 2000 and how they set up

1464
01:34:32.030 –> 01:34:35.250
kind of like satellite, dispatchers

1465
01:34:35.550 –> 01:34:39.235
essentially in all these outside at least towns surrounding major

1466
01:34:39.235 –> 01:34:43.075
cities because the major cities were already occupied and taken care of

1467
01:34:43.075 –> 01:34:45.735
by some sort of, like, mob or gang affiliation.

1468
01:34:46.750 –> 01:34:50.510
And so he talks about Halisco. Halisco is a

1469
01:34:50.510 –> 01:34:54.110
city or state in Mexico, and Halisco, where that’s

1470
01:34:54.110 –> 01:34:57.185
where the black tar heroin basically comes from. Is Elisko.

1471
01:34:57.565 –> 01:35:01.405
Everyone in Elisko works towards the in

1472
01:35:01.405 –> 01:35:04.925
the Black tar heroin trade. He said, oh, next next

1473
01:35:04.925 –> 01:35:08.630
door, the town that’s next door, everyone there,

1474
01:35:08.630 –> 01:35:12.070
he’s like, it’s really common with these towns in in in in in in in

1475
01:35:12.070 –> 01:35:15.815
Mexico, where everyone in town does the same thing. Is it the town

1476
01:35:15.895 –> 01:35:19.575
the neighboring town. They’re all, like, general contractors. The neighboring

1477
01:35:19.575 –> 01:35:23.095
town from that is everyone, it was a there was just prostitutes and

1478
01:35:23.095 –> 01:35:26.920
rifles. Mhmm. And so it’s just,

1479
01:35:26.920 –> 01:35:30.760
you know, the the it’s it’s evidenced in in modern

1480
01:35:30.760 –> 01:35:34.219
day. So it’s not just, you know, talking

1481
01:35:35.355 –> 01:35:39.114
being playful with mythology. I mean, there’s there’s there’s there’s

1482
01:35:39.114 –> 01:35:42.770
there’s evidential Okay.

1483
01:35:42.770 –> 01:35:46.450
So no. I I I and I see your point, about, you know,

1484
01:35:46.450 –> 01:35:49.430
people all working in this one this one industry.

1485
01:35:51.875 –> 01:35:54.675
The other thing or another thing that sort of jumps out to me about this,

1486
01:35:54.675 –> 01:35:57.715
and it’s interesting that you mentioned sort of I wanna go back to something that

1487
01:35:57.715 –> 01:36:00.775
she said before about Gandalf, basically,

1488
01:36:01.780 –> 01:36:05.539
the sort of dismissing Bill Bo’s concerns, but, yeah, not doing

1489
01:36:05.539 –> 01:36:08.820
no time for that. But, well, no no time for that either. Nope. And I

1490
01:36:08.820 –> 01:36:12.565
do see my kids all the time. Button suaron. You’re getting in

1491
01:36:12.565 –> 01:36:15.945
the car. This car’s leaving. And so

1492
01:36:16.085 –> 01:36:19.145
it’s this idea. Clint Eastwood has this idea.

1493
01:36:23.270 –> 01:36:26.869
That and it’s it’s sort of brilliant where when he

1494
01:36:26.869 –> 01:36:29.885
works with actors, you know, he’ll do one take,

1495
01:36:30.585 –> 01:36:34.425
maybe 2, and then it’s done. And then he moves right along

1496
01:36:34.425 –> 01:36:38.120
to, like, the next sequence that he has to he has to film. And

1497
01:36:38.120 –> 01:36:41.340
his philosophy is we’ve made it this far. Let’s not ruin it by overthinking.

1498
01:36:43.639 –> 01:36:44.540
And that

1499
01:36:47.475 –> 01:36:51.235
kind goes along, but but you can only get there. You can only

1500
01:36:51.235 –> 01:36:54.950
get number 1. Police would is in his nineties. But he’s

1501
01:36:54.950 –> 01:36:58.710
been directing this way. Pretty much ever since

1502
01:36:58.710 –> 01:37:02.310
he was in his thirties or forties. So he’s had a long track record of

1503
01:37:02.310 –> 01:37:05.585
this. This is It’s just who he is. It’s just how he works. That’s it.

1504
01:37:05.585 –> 01:37:09.425
That’s it. But Gandalf represents

1505
01:37:09.425 –> 01:37:13.239
that wisdom of knowing when to think and when to provide

1506
01:37:13.239 –> 01:37:16.920
good counsel, knowing when to not overthink and just have

1507
01:37:16.920 –> 01:37:20.755
the thing happen. And knowing how to

1508
01:37:20.755 –> 01:37:24.595
front load, the hard work, but also knowing, and it’s interesting

1509
01:37:24.595 –> 01:37:27.760
in this passage that we read, knowing when to disappear. Right?

1510
01:37:28.780 –> 01:37:32.220
Knowing when not to be around, because sometimes wisdom is not the best

1511
01:37:32.220 –> 01:37:35.784
tool. Sometimes you just have to do the thing. Right? You just have

1512
01:37:35.784 –> 01:37:39.324
to walk the road or experience

1513
01:37:39.465 –> 01:37:43.304
the chaos or or have the rain drip on your, you know, your your

1514
01:37:43.304 –> 01:37:46.490
dark green hood and have it suck for you. Like, you just have to do

1515
01:37:46.490 –> 01:37:50.110
those things in order to have the experience

1516
01:37:50.170 –> 01:37:53.150
and no amount of wisdom at that moment is really gonna be helpful.

1517
01:37:54.785 –> 01:37:58.465
Gandalf doesn’t do therapy. I think he could probably

1518
01:37:58.465 –> 01:38:01.285
spray paint that on the wall of a subway somewhere.

1519
01:38:05.380 –> 01:38:07.880
So when

1520
01:38:09.539 –> 01:38:13.059
when you talk about tempering your output in service to the

1521
01:38:13.059 –> 01:38:13.559
mission,

1522
01:38:17.015 –> 01:38:20.455
How far does that go as a as a leader? Right? Because I think a

1523
01:38:20.455 –> 01:38:23.990
lot of leaders struggle with this I I struggle with the

1524
01:38:23.990 –> 01:38:27.670
concept if I have all this experience, I wanna give it to people because

1525
01:38:27.670 –> 01:38:31.190
they’re they just they need it. Like, I can see the needs everywhere, and it’s,

1526
01:38:31.190 –> 01:38:34.935
like, whack them all with the needs. But there’s very few people

1527
01:38:34.935 –> 01:38:37.975
who may wanna hear it. So how do they how do you know where that

1528
01:38:37.975 –> 01:38:41.680
line is? Well, that’s

1529
01:38:41.680 –> 01:38:44.990
the that is the the the wisdom component.

1530
01:38:51.815 –> 01:38:55.115
It’s interesting, and this is we kind of like touched on it earlier

1531
01:38:55.175 –> 01:38:58.850
is in in reference to the immediacy

1532
01:38:58.990 –> 01:39:02.830
and Internet and every bit of information you could ever want in

1533
01:39:02.830 –> 01:39:04.060
in your pocket. And

1534
01:39:07.264 –> 01:39:10.885
And and because lots of systems,

1535
01:39:10.945 –> 01:39:14.780
institutions have been exposed and as

1536
01:39:14.780 –> 01:39:18.240
far as corruption. It’s odd

1537
01:39:18.540 –> 01:39:22.160
because there are leaders in place, at least, figureheads,

1538
01:39:22.540 –> 01:39:26.195
and we, they’re put in that position

1539
01:39:26.574 –> 01:39:29.235
as to sort of, like,

1540
01:39:30.094 –> 01:39:33.130
represent and lead but

1541
01:39:34.470 –> 01:39:38.230
not everyone is going to do that. For

1542
01:39:38.230 –> 01:39:41.975
instance, I mean, I’m sure Jeffrey Epstein was the leader

1543
01:39:41.975 –> 01:39:45.415
of his. And so

1544
01:39:45.415 –> 01:39:49.100
so some missteps, I guess,

1545
01:39:49.640 –> 01:39:53.260
maybe, you know, but in the same sense,

1546
01:39:54.635 –> 01:39:56.895
you know, the the person who,

1547
01:39:58.795 –> 01:40:02.554
there’s a there’s a person at the the the market who sells spices and

1548
01:40:02.554 –> 01:40:06.239
they started off at a little table as a as a vendor

1549
01:40:06.239 –> 01:40:10.080
and and over time, they built, you know,

1550
01:40:10.080 –> 01:40:13.905
this spike business and it moved indoors and they did all the, like,

1551
01:40:15.664 –> 01:40:19.105
And suaron point is to look and it like, is that person’s

1552
01:40:19.105 –> 01:40:22.570
intentions to lead, are they it’s like,

1553
01:40:22.949 –> 01:40:26.570
people have been put put in place, and it’s almost,

1554
01:40:26.790 –> 01:40:30.385
at times, I think, arbitrarily, whether kinda like the

1555
01:40:30.385 –> 01:40:34.145
populace allows them to do their job. So you

1556
01:40:34.145 –> 01:40:37.605
can put somebody in a position to do something and then sabotage

1557
01:40:37.745 –> 01:40:41.540
them every step of the way because of all these

1558
01:40:41.540 –> 01:40:43.960
other conflicts that are not necessarily

1559
01:40:46.180 –> 01:40:50.025
relevant to what the actual missing or task is at

1560
01:40:50.025 –> 01:40:53.864
hand. Because then it becomes like a personality or characteristic or a trait thing

1561
01:40:53.864 –> 01:40:56.820
rather than the skill

1562
01:40:57.360 –> 01:41:01.199
in applying, you know, the skill, whereas the application

1563
01:41:01.199 –> 01:41:04.824
versus the idea. And so sometimes you can not

1564
01:41:04.824 –> 01:41:07.804
even give people the opportunity to,

1565
01:41:09.385 –> 01:41:13.130
apply their wisdom because of these other

1566
01:41:13.130 –> 01:41:16.590
reasons is that it’s completely truncated the individual from doing so.

1567
01:41:17.450 –> 01:41:21.045
Well, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t necessarily say Jeffrey Epstein was a leader.

1568
01:41:21.105 –> 01:41:24.865
Well, no. I wouldn’t necessarily say Jeffrey Epstein was leader. However, I do see your

1569
01:41:24.865 –> 01:41:28.599
point No. I do see your point. In

1570
01:41:28.599 –> 01:41:32.300
that there’s going to be

1571
01:41:37.315 –> 01:41:40.995
People are going to lead from different motives, right, whether you’re building a spice

1572
01:41:40.995 –> 01:41:44.530
business starting from scratch or you are,

1573
01:41:48.190 –> 01:41:51.889
— He started from scratch too. It just was a different

1574
01:41:53.855 –> 01:41:56.655
You’re operating a or or whether you’re operating a,

1575
01:41:57.935 –> 01:42:01.455
you know, an island with a bunch of shady, shady, or people on

1576
01:42:01.455 –> 01:42:05.250
it. There’s going to be some some some standard frameworks there.

1577
01:42:05.250 –> 01:42:07.429
Right? And

1578
01:42:11.805 –> 01:42:14.545
the standard frameworks are going to be power,

1579
01:42:15.405 –> 01:42:18.765
position. Those are gonna be standard. Right?

1580
01:42:18.765 –> 01:42:22.480
Influence is gonna be gonna be there. Those are going to

1581
01:42:22.480 –> 01:42:25.920
be some some pillars that are going to be there’s gonna be there, right,

1582
01:42:26.320 –> 01:42:29.300
because of the nature of just sort of what you’re taking on. Right?

1583
01:42:29.760 –> 01:42:32.905
And I think Gandalf

1584
01:42:33.685 –> 01:42:36.745
represents the ability to navigate those pillars,

1585
01:42:37.295 –> 01:42:40.800
with and this is the difference between,

1586
01:42:41.099 –> 01:42:44.860
you know, Jeffrey Epstein and the Spice guy, with ethics, right,

1587
01:42:45.420 –> 01:42:49.105
with a moral foundation that Kims comes from somewhere. We we never

1588
01:42:49.105 –> 01:42:52.784
find out truly where the end all some moral foundation comes from, but

1589
01:42:52.784 –> 01:42:56.590
I do think that the allusions to jesus, the

1590
01:42:56.590 –> 01:43:00.030
illusions to the transcendent that are made

1591
01:43:00.030 –> 01:43:02.990
by. And by the way, riding on the white horse is not the only one.

1592
01:43:02.990 –> 01:43:06.045
I mean, there’s several other ones that are in that are in the hobbit and

1593
01:43:06.045 –> 01:43:09.645
then later on lord of the rings where it’s undeniable that this is what this

1594
01:43:09.645 –> 01:43:11.905
is the direction that Tolkien is going in.

1595
01:43:13.659 –> 01:43:17.500
Kinda show us where he’s basing his, his

1596
01:43:17.500 –> 01:43:20.949
his his his where his moral and ethical anchor lies.

1597
01:43:20.949 –> 01:43:24.575
Okay? I think that’s

1598
01:43:24.575 –> 01:43:28.415
really hard to determine for people. Right? But it’s also really hard to determine

1599
01:43:28.415 –> 01:43:31.190
for leaders. So we talked about this a couple months ago know, where is that?

1600
01:43:31.190 –> 01:43:34.550
Where’s your moral compass? Right? And I

1601
01:43:34.550 –> 01:43:38.310
think the other dynamic or the other dynamic that you see in

1602
01:43:38.310 –> 01:43:42.025
the hobbit is the dynamic of Gandalf

1603
01:43:42.085 –> 01:43:45.764
being the adults in the room. And that is

1604
01:43:45.764 –> 01:43:49.270
something I think that we’re missing in modern society. And the adults in the room

1605
01:43:49.590 –> 01:43:53.350
is well, and you and I have talked about this

1606
01:43:53.350 –> 01:43:57.095
before. You know, these days, the the the the barrier

1607
01:43:57.095 –> 01:44:00.075
entry to being the adults of the room is not that high to jump over.

1608
01:44:00.775 –> 01:44:04.590
You know, it’s showing up competently not complaining. Doing

1609
01:44:04.590 –> 01:44:07.949
the work for, like, 90 days straight, and then all of a sudden, congratulations. You’re

1610
01:44:07.949 –> 01:44:11.550
in charge. I have a question to ask you because I’ve experienced this, and I

1611
01:44:11.550 –> 01:44:15.385
know certainly you’ve experienced this as well. And I don’t know what in what form,

1612
01:44:15.765 –> 01:44:19.340
but, you’re you’re just some place and

1613
01:44:19.340 –> 01:44:22.860
someone behaves in a particular way, and they’re testing what the

1614
01:44:22.860 –> 01:44:26.700
norm is of of the the the the social

1615
01:44:26.700 –> 01:44:30.135
norm in that group. Oh, yeah. Mhmm. And whether

1616
01:44:30.435 –> 01:44:34.195
it’s flicking a cigarette butt, right, and then as soon

1617
01:44:34.195 –> 01:44:37.790
they do that, and then they look at you. Mhmm. As if

1618
01:44:38.090 –> 01:44:41.450
to defer. Right. Okay. Is that

1619
01:44:41.450 –> 01:44:44.905
was was that bad what I just did? It

1620
01:44:44.905 –> 01:44:48.745
happens. I’m sure you’ve experienced it. I’ve experienced it all of the time

1621
01:44:48.745 –> 01:44:52.585
where yeah. Oh, yeah. Interesting where it’s like it’s

1622
01:44:52.585 –> 01:44:56.280
turned you turn to for the the and so that’s when somebody does

1623
01:44:56.280 –> 01:44:58.920
the wisdom. This I don’t have a uh-uh, man, I don’t have a I don’t

1624
01:44:58.920 –> 01:45:02.495
have money. I don’t have I don’t have any of those things, but why why

1625
01:45:02.495 –> 01:45:06.095
why are you still looking at me like that? Do you wanna

1626
01:45:06.255 –> 01:45:09.630
I have zero for you to consider,

1627
01:45:10.170 –> 01:45:14.010
but in this very, like, yeah, please. It’s

1628
01:45:14.010 –> 01:45:16.429
it’s because you’re the adult in the room in that moment.

1629
01:45:18.074 –> 01:45:21.434
Congratulations. You’re the adult. And and by the way, I see this in rooms with

1630
01:45:21.594 –> 01:45:24.235
because because, you know, I have kids, so I go to a lot of places

1631
01:45:24.235 –> 01:45:27.990
with other people with kids. There’s just sort of the nature of the game.

1632
01:45:27.990 –> 01:45:31.830
And, you know, you’ll be in a

1633
01:45:31.830 –> 01:45:35.372
room with a bunch of parents. Somebody’s suaron,

1634
01:45:36.035 –> 01:45:39.715
some kid’s parent will get out of control, or some kid will do something. This

1635
01:45:39.715 –> 01:45:42.515
is usually how it happens. Some kid will do something. Some kid will get out

1636
01:45:42.515 –> 01:45:46.190
of control. And now all of the other parents, it’s very subtle how this

1637
01:45:46.190 –> 01:45:49.550
happens, even more subtle than the cigarette, but flicking thing, because that’s more public

1638
01:45:49.550 –> 01:45:53.375
and particularly, like, in the place where I live in Texas where we’ve

1639
01:45:53.375 –> 01:45:56.655
been having a drought for the last, like, 3 months, somebody flicks a cigarette, but

1640
01:45:56.655 –> 01:46:00.100
someone’s gonna get someone’s gonna get clapped. Like, it could go happen Like, because we’re

1641
01:46:00.100 –> 01:46:03.720
not we’re not bound to wildfires this summer. So and by the way, everybody

1642
01:46:03.940 –> 01:46:06.820
in Texas, at least in the area of Texas I live in, has permission to

1643
01:46:06.820 –> 01:46:10.114
clap that person. And they know they have permission to get clapped. And so, like,

1644
01:46:10.114 –> 01:46:13.815
you know, so everybody knows sort of what the situation is. Right?

1645
01:46:14.275 –> 01:46:17.094
But it’s way more subtle when you’re in a situation with

1646
01:46:17.940 –> 01:46:21.780
parents and kids because the kid will get out of control. And I’m not gonna

1647
01:46:21.780 –> 01:46:25.434
let my kid get out of control, but now I’m looking at sort of

1648
01:46:25.434 –> 01:46:29.034
my wife to see, like, what’s how far can I go with, like, with this

1649
01:46:29.034 –> 01:46:32.394
kid? Right? Now if my wife happens to be there, if my wife is not

1650
01:46:32.394 –> 01:46:35.790
there, which is very rare. But if my but this has happened. If my wife

1651
01:46:35.790 –> 01:46:39.330
is not there and it’s me and my kid, I’ll literally look at that kid,

1652
01:46:39.470 –> 01:46:43.225
and I’ll go, you need to stop. And then I’ll watch the parent,

1653
01:46:43.225 –> 01:46:46.525
usually it’s a mom. I’ll watch the mom to see what the mom will do.

1654
01:46:46.745 –> 01:46:50.300
And if the mom does nothing and goes, it’s fine. Then, like, I’m off to

1655
01:46:50.300 –> 01:46:53.420
the races on that kid. I am. I’m off to the race. And I say

1656
01:46:53.420 –> 01:46:56.719
I’m disciplining the kid, but, like, you know, I’m correcting

1657
01:46:56.860 –> 01:47:00.695
social behavior. Right? I’m doing it kind of funny and jokey and all that.

1658
01:47:00.695 –> 01:47:04.375
Anyway, so the the I I made the kid cry. Right? And and and, again,

1659
01:47:04.375 –> 01:47:08.200
not to the point of, like, to be malicious, but it’s the social. It’s

1660
01:47:08.200 –> 01:47:11.240
the social or anything. And then I’ve had the parent come back to me later

1661
01:47:11.240 –> 01:47:15.000
on and be like, thank you for, like, social numbing my

1662
01:47:15.000 –> 01:47:18.775
kit. Now occasionally, occasionally, I will

1663
01:47:18.775 –> 01:47:22.155
be in situations, and this is at the opposite end of that where

1664
01:47:23.250 –> 01:47:26.930
just there’s something in the mood of the room where you

1665
01:47:26.930 –> 01:47:30.530
know not to say anything to that kid because the

1666
01:47:30.530 –> 01:47:32.230
parent’s gonna be a real problem.

1667
01:47:34.675 –> 01:47:37.235
Not the kid, but the parent’s gonna be a real issue. And I and and

1668
01:47:37.235 –> 01:47:40.835
and, honestly speaking of geography, I experienced this more in the northeast than I

1669
01:47:40.835 –> 01:47:44.650
ever have, you know, in the, currently rather than the

1670
01:47:44.650 –> 01:47:48.410
southwest. And and so I think

1671
01:47:48.410 –> 01:47:52.225
it’s regional, regional to a certain degree. Yeah, I know what you’re talking

1672
01:47:52.225 –> 01:47:55.985
about. It is that sort of, hey. You’re looking at me.

1673
01:47:55.985 –> 01:47:59.650
Hey. I gotta fix this problem now, and you’re looking around going who me. I’m

1674
01:47:59.650 –> 01:48:02.850
I’m the one that’s gotta I’m the one that’s gotta do this, and it it

1675
01:48:02.850 –> 01:48:06.610
is part of the it is part of the Gandalf like journey

1676
01:48:06.610 –> 01:48:10.175
of wisdom, I think. Towards for something better.

1677
01:48:11.675 –> 01:48:14.815
Yeah. It’s interesting because a lot of people won’t even, like, know

1678
01:48:16.140 –> 01:48:19.520
the my story, but

1679
01:48:19.820 –> 01:48:23.500
short period of time, it’s like, oh, this it’s like, oh, this person’s kinda been

1680
01:48:23.500 –> 01:48:27.205
through it. Right. Right. It’s,

1681
01:48:27.205 –> 01:48:29.945
you know, it’s kind of like this this weird earned,

1682
01:48:31.205 –> 01:48:34.990
kind of status that that I’m often unaware of.

1683
01:48:35.210 –> 01:48:38.890
Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Back to the book. Round in the

1684
01:48:38.890 –> 01:48:41.470
corner. Back to the book. Back to the Hobbit.

1685
01:48:42.525 –> 01:48:46.365
Or there and back again. So we’re gonna go back and pick

1686
01:48:46.365 –> 01:48:50.205
up again in chapter 12. And we’re gonna talk a little

1687
01:48:50.205 –> 01:48:53.680
bit about Love we’re gonna talk a little bit about dragons.

1688
01:48:59.995 –> 01:49:02.955
The doors were still passing the cup from hand to hand when and talking to

1689
01:49:02.955 –> 01:49:06.795
light of the recovery of their treasure when suddenly a vast rumbling woke at

1690
01:49:06.795 –> 01:49:10.120
the mountain and underneath as if it was an old volcano that had made up

1691
01:49:10.120 –> 01:49:13.800
its mind to start eruptions once again. The door behind them was

1692
01:49:13.800 –> 01:49:17.320
pulled nearly 2 and blocked from closing with a stone, but up the long tunnel

1693
01:49:17.320 –> 01:49:20.585
came the dreadful echoes far down to the depths of a bellowing and a trampling

1694
01:49:20.585 –> 01:49:24.344
that made the ground beneath them tremble. And

1695
01:49:24.344 –> 01:49:27.870
then the doors forgot their joy, and they’re confident both of a moment before it

1696
01:49:27.870 –> 01:49:31.230
cow down in fright, smog was still to be reckoned

1697
01:49:31.230 –> 01:49:34.590
with. It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your

1698
01:49:34.590 –> 01:49:38.335
calculations if you live near him. Dragons may not have much real

1699
01:49:38.335 –> 01:49:42.015
use for all their wealth, but they know it to an ounce as a

1700
01:49:42.015 –> 01:49:45.635
rule, especially after long possession. And smog was no exception.

1701
01:49:46.500 –> 01:49:49.940
He had passed from an uneasy dream in which a warrior altogether

1702
01:49:49.940 –> 01:49:53.700
insignificant in size, but provided with a bitter sword and great courage

1703
01:49:53.700 –> 01:49:57.355
figured most unpleasantly. To a doze and from a

1704
01:49:57.355 –> 01:50:01.195
doze to wide waking. There was a breath of strange

1705
01:50:01.195 –> 01:50:04.840
air in his cave. Could there be a drought from that little hole? You

1706
01:50:04.840 –> 01:50:08.280
never felt quite happy about it, though it was so smaug, and now he glared

1707
01:50:08.280 –> 01:50:11.739
at it in suspicion and wondered why he had never blocked it up.

1708
01:50:12.155 –> 01:50:15.195
Of late, he had half fancied. He had caught the dim echoes of a knocking

1709
01:50:15.195 –> 01:50:18.415
sound from far above that came down through it to his lair.

1710
01:50:18.875 –> 01:50:21.920
He stirred and stretched forth his neck to sniff.

1711
01:50:22.560 –> 01:50:26.400
Then he missed the cup. The fire murder, such a thing had

1712
01:50:26.400 –> 01:50:29.895
not happened since he first came to the mountain, his rage passes

1713
01:50:29.895 –> 01:50:33.655
description. The sort of rage is only seen with rich folk that have more than

1714
01:50:33.655 –> 01:50:37.335
they can enjoy. Some they lose something that they have long had, but

1715
01:50:37.335 –> 01:50:40.920
have never before used or wanted, pause that some

1716
01:50:40.920 –> 01:50:42.060
wisdom right there.

1717
01:50:44.520 –> 01:50:48.235
Continuing on. His fire belched forth The hull

1718
01:50:48.235 –> 01:50:51.915
smoked. He shook the mountain roots. He thrust his head in vain at the little

1719
01:50:51.915 –> 01:50:55.695
hole and then coiling his lengths together roared like a thunder underground.

1720
01:50:55.920 –> 01:50:59.679
He sped from his deep layer through its gray door out into the huge

1721
01:50:59.679 –> 01:51:02.660
passages of the mountain palace and up towards the front gate.

1722
01:51:04.535 –> 01:51:07.255
To hunt the whole mountain till he had caught the thief in a torn and

1723
01:51:07.255 –> 01:51:10.855
trampled him was his one thought he issued from the gate. The waters rose in

1724
01:51:10.855 –> 01:51:14.449
fierce whistling steam. And up, he soared blazing into the air and settled on the

1725
01:51:14.449 –> 01:51:17.969
mountain top in a spout of green and its scarlet flame. The

1726
01:51:17.969 –> 01:51:21.595
dwarves heard the awful rumor of his flight, and they crouched against the wall the

1727
01:51:21.595 –> 01:51:25.355
grassy terrace cringing under boulders hoping somehow to escape the frightful eyes

1728
01:51:25.355 –> 01:51:29.195
of the hunting dragon. There, they would have all been killed

1729
01:51:29.195 –> 01:51:31.960
if it had not for Bill Bone. Once again, quick, quickie gas, the door of

1730
01:51:31.960 –> 01:51:35.719
the tunnel. It’s it’s no good here. Rouse by these words, they were just

1731
01:51:35.719 –> 01:51:39.185
about to creep inside the tunnel when Bifree gave a cry. By cousins, bomber, and

1732
01:51:39.185 –> 01:51:42.945
boffer. We have forgotten them there down to the valley. They will be slain at

1733
01:51:42.945 –> 01:51:45.905
all our ponies too and all our stores lost, Moe, and the others. We can

1734
01:51:45.905 –> 01:51:49.670
do nothing. Nonsense, said Thornton, recovering

1735
01:51:49.670 –> 01:51:52.970
his dignity. We cannot leave them. Get inside.

1736
01:51:59.405 –> 01:52:03.190
Now you others. Where are the ropes? Be quick. Those are

1737
01:52:03.190 –> 01:52:07.030
perhaps the worst moments they had been through yet. The

1738
01:52:07.030 –> 01:52:10.710
horrible sounds of slog’s anger were echoing in the stony hollows far

1739
01:52:10.710 –> 01:52:14.555
above At any moment, he might come blazing down or fly whirling around

1740
01:52:14.555 –> 01:52:17.995
and find them there near the perilous cliff’s edge hauling badly up the

1741
01:52:17.995 –> 01:52:21.580
ropes. Up came Beaufer and still all was safe. Up came bomb for

1742
01:52:21.900 –> 01:52:25.340
bomber huffing and blowing while the ropes creaked and still all was

1743
01:52:25.340 –> 01:52:29.180
safe, up came some tools and bundles of stores, and then the danger was

1744
01:52:29.180 –> 01:52:32.865
upon them. A whirring noise was heard.

1745
01:52:32.925 –> 01:52:36.385
A red light touched the points of standing rocks. The dragon came.

1746
01:52:37.725 –> 01:52:41.389
They had barely time to fly back into the tunnel. Pulling and dragging in their

1747
01:52:41.389 –> 01:52:45.150
bundles when smaug came hurtling from the north, licking them out inside to the flame,

1748
01:52:45.150 –> 01:52:48.290
beating his great wings, like, with a noise, like a roaring wind.

1749
01:52:49.165 –> 01:52:52.605
His hot breath shriveled the grass before the door and drove him through the crack

1750
01:52:52.605 –> 01:52:56.445
they had left and scorched them as they laid head, flickering fires leaped

1751
01:52:56.445 –> 01:53:00.210
up in black rock shadows danced. Then darkness

1752
01:53:00.350 –> 01:53:03.950
fell as he passed again, the pony screamed with terror burst their ropes and gout

1753
01:53:03.950 –> 01:53:07.730
widely off. The dragon swooped and turned to pursue them.

1754
01:53:07.925 –> 01:53:11.773
And was gone. That’ll be the end of our port base, said Suaron,

1755
01:53:11.845 –> 01:53:15.525
nothing can escape smog once he sees it. Here we suaron, and here we shall

1756
01:53:15.525 –> 01:53:19.230
have to suaron. Unless anyone fancies tramping, the long open miles back to the

1757
01:53:19.230 –> 01:53:22.750
river was smog on the watch. It was not a

1758
01:53:22.750 –> 01:53:26.590
pleasant thought. They crept further down the tunnel, and there

1759
01:53:26.590 –> 01:53:30.335
they lay and shivered though it was warm and stuffy until dawn came

1760
01:53:30.335 –> 01:53:33.855
paled with the crack of the door. Every now and again, through the night, they

1761
01:53:33.855 –> 01:53:37.220
could hear the roar of the flying dragon grow and then fade as he hunted

1762
01:53:37.220 –> 01:53:40.820
round and round the mountain sides. He guessed from the

1763
01:53:40.820 –> 01:53:44.515
ponies and from the traces of the camps he had discovered that men had come

1764
01:53:44.515 –> 01:53:47.595
from the river and the lake and had scaled the mountainside from the valley where

1765
01:53:47.595 –> 01:53:51.440
the ponies had been standing, but the door withdrew his searching eye.

1766
01:53:51.520 –> 01:53:54.739
And the long high wall bay kept down his fiercest flames.

1767
01:53:56.000 –> 01:53:59.520
Long, he had hunted in vain till the dawn chilled his wrath, and he went

1768
01:53:59.520 –> 01:54:03.315
back to his golden couch to sleep and to gather new strength.

1769
01:54:04.094 –> 01:54:07.935
He would not forget or forgive the theft, not if a 1000

1770
01:54:07.935 –> 01:54:11.540
years turned him to smoldering stone. But he could afford to

1771
01:54:11.540 –> 01:54:15.160
wait. Slow and silent. He crept back to his lair.

1772
01:54:15.860 –> 01:54:19.665
And half closed. His

1773
01:54:19.665 –> 01:54:20.165
eyes.

1774
01:54:23.905 –> 01:54:27.665
Now I’m gonna skip forward a little

1775
01:54:27.665 –> 01:54:31.500
bit. Bill Bo is now

1776
01:54:32.199 –> 01:54:35.840
tasked with going and

1777
01:54:35.840 –> 01:54:39.275
visiting the track. And so I’m going to move forward a little bit. The sun

1778
01:54:39.275 –> 01:54:42.075
was shining when he started, but it was dark as night in the tunnel. The

1779
01:54:42.075 –> 01:54:45.355
light from the door almost closed, soon faded as he went down. So silent was

1780
01:54:45.355 –> 01:54:48.790
his going that smoke on a gentle wind could hardly have surpassed it, and he

1781
01:54:48.790 –> 01:54:51.829
was inclined to feel a bit proud himself as he drew near the lower door.

1782
01:54:51.829 –> 01:54:54.090
There was only the faintest glow to be seen.

1783
01:54:55.395 –> 01:54:57.955
Old smog is weary in his sleep. He thought he can’t see him, and he

1784
01:54:57.955 –> 01:55:01.555
won’t hear me. Sure, Bilbo. He had forgotten or had never heard about the

1785
01:55:01.555 –> 01:55:05.390
dragon’s sense of smell. It is also an awkward fact that they keep half an

1786
01:55:05.390 –> 01:55:08.130
eye open watching while they sleep if they are suspicious.

1787
01:55:09.631 –> 01:55:13.090
Smaug certainly looked fast asleep, almost dead and dark.

1788
01:55:13.375 –> 01:55:17.135
Scarcely a snore more than a whiff of unseen steam when Bilbo peeped once

1789
01:55:17.135 –> 01:55:20.790
more from the entrance. He was just about to step out onto floor when he

1790
01:55:20.790 –> 01:55:24.070
caught a sudden thin and piercing ray of red from under the drooping lid of

1791
01:55:24.070 –> 01:55:27.830
smog’s left eye. He was only pretending to sleep. He was watching the tunnel

1792
01:55:27.830 –> 01:55:31.304
engines hurriedly, Bill will step back and bless the luck of his ring.

1793
01:55:32.085 –> 01:55:35.385
Then smaug spoke. Well,

1794
01:55:35.445 –> 01:55:39.070
thief, I smell you and I feel your air. I hear your breath.

1795
01:55:39.070 –> 01:55:42.910
Come along. Help yourself again. There is plenty. And to

1796
01:55:42.952 –> 01:55:46.545
suaron, But Bilbo was not quite so

1797
01:55:46.545 –> 01:55:49.585
unlearned in Suaron lore as all that, and Smaug hoped to get him to come

1798
01:55:49.585 –> 01:55:53.284
near. So easily, he was disappointed. No. Thank you, Smaug, the tremendous

1799
01:55:53.440 –> 01:55:56.160
applied. I did not come for presents. I only wish to have a look at

1800
01:55:56.160 –> 01:55:59.600
you and see if you were truly as great as tales say. I did not

1801
01:55:59.600 –> 01:56:03.245
believe them. Do you

1802
01:56:03.245 –> 01:56:07.085
now so the dragon’s somewhat flattered even though he did not believe a word

1803
01:56:07.085 –> 01:56:10.844
of it. Truly, songs and tales fall utterly short of

1804
01:56:10.844 –> 01:56:14.670
the reality, O’S smaug, that she and greatest of calamities replied

1805
01:56:14.670 –> 01:56:18.269
Bilbo. You have nice manners for a thief and a

1806
01:56:18.269 –> 01:56:22.015
liar, said the dragon You seem familiar with my name, but I don’t seem to

1807
01:56:22.015 –> 01:56:25.775
remember smelling you before. Who are you? And where do you come from? May I

1808
01:56:25.775 –> 01:56:29.590
ask? You may indeed. I come from under the hill and under the

1809
01:56:29.590 –> 01:56:33.270
hills and over the hills my path fled. And through the air, I am he

1810
01:56:33.270 –> 01:56:36.625
that walks unseen. So I can well

1811
01:56:36.625 –> 01:56:39.844
believe, said smog, but that is hardly your usual name.

1812
01:56:40.945 –> 01:56:44.670
I am the cluefinder, the web cutter, the stinging fly, I was chosen

1813
01:56:44.670 –> 01:56:48.350
for the lucky number. Lovely titles near the dragon, but

1814
01:56:48.350 –> 01:56:52.115
lucky numbers don’t always come off. I am he that buries his

1815
01:56:52.115 –> 01:56:55.795
friends alive and drowns them and draws them alive again from the water. I

1816
01:56:55.795 –> 01:56:58.935
come from the end of a bag, but no bag went over me.

1817
01:57:00.219 –> 01:57:03.440
These don’t sound so credible, smaug, scoffed

1818
01:57:03.659 –> 01:57:07.260
smog. I am the friend of bears and the guest of

1819
01:57:07.260 –> 01:57:10.995
Eagles I am ring winner in luckwear, and I am barrel rider,

1820
01:57:11.055 –> 01:57:13.795
went on Bilbo beginning to be pleased with his riddling.

1821
01:57:14.735 –> 01:57:17.980
That’s better, said smog. But don’t let your imagination

1822
01:57:18.015 –> 01:57:20.540
suaron away with you.

1823
01:57:30.905 –> 01:57:33.085
I’m just a fly in the ointment Hans.

1824
01:57:36.170 –> 01:57:39.930
I’m just a, I’m just

1825
01:57:39.930 –> 01:57:43.594
a fly in the ointment. I believe that, I

1826
01:57:43.594 –> 01:57:47.434
believe that John McClain once said that stuck in an elevator

1827
01:57:47.434 –> 01:57:51.280
shaft, or might have been an air conditioning shaft somewhere. In some

1828
01:57:51.280 –> 01:57:54.960
airport at some point back in the

1829
01:57:54.960 –> 01:57:55.460
day.

1830
01:57:58.525 –> 01:58:01.825
Monkey and the wrench. That’s it.

1831
01:58:03.085 –> 01:58:05.185
I am the thing that bothers you.

1832
01:58:06.980 –> 01:58:10.820
Or to update it a little bit further for the times in which we live

1833
01:58:10.820 –> 01:58:14.615
now. I am the one who knocks. I’m not the

1834
01:58:14.615 –> 01:58:17.355
one who gets god. I’m the one who does the getting.

1835
01:58:18.775 –> 01:58:21.435
Dragons are a dangerous thing.

1836
01:58:22.340 –> 01:58:25.880
Tolkien makes an excellent point, when

1837
01:58:26.660 –> 01:58:30.315
after, the dragon realizes that, you know, of

1838
01:58:30.315 –> 01:58:33.994
course, he’s been ripped off. And by the way, not ripped off of a large

1839
01:58:33.994 –> 01:58:36.574
thing, but ripped off of a small thing.

1840
01:58:37.659 –> 01:58:41.420
He realizes that, well, I I I love

1841
01:58:41.420 –> 01:58:45.099
this line. His rage passes description. The sort of rage that is

1842
01:58:45.099 –> 01:58:48.415
only seen when rich folk that have more than they can enjoy

1843
01:58:48.715 –> 01:58:52.555
suddenly lose something that they have long had, but have

1844
01:58:52.555 –> 01:58:56.230
never before used or wanted. What

1845
01:58:56.289 –> 01:59:00.050
what an amazing observation of wealth in our time as

1846
01:59:00.050 –> 01:59:03.599
well as Toll Keynes turns out the human nature is

1847
01:59:03.695 –> 01:59:07.075
just the same back then as it is now.

1848
01:59:07.775 –> 01:59:11.055
And, yes, I’m looking at you Sam Suaron Freed and all the people who took

1849
01:59:11.055 –> 01:59:14.760
meetings with him while he was playing video

1850
01:59:14.760 –> 01:59:18.600
games on his Xbox down in the Caribbean somewhere. Look.

1851
01:59:18.600 –> 01:59:19.100
Exactly.

1852
01:59:22.325 –> 01:59:26.165
Dragons represent evil and chaos in many fantasy novels, myths, and legends,

1853
01:59:26.165 –> 01:59:27.785
and folklore throughout history.

1854
01:59:29.620 –> 01:59:32.900
George R R Martin wrote about dragons in,

1855
01:59:33.380 –> 01:59:36.760
in his his fantasy novels. But dragons

1856
01:59:36.900 –> 01:59:40.355
also serve as the stand in And many people don’t

1857
01:59:40.355 –> 01:59:44.034
realize this. It took a little bit of finagling for me to sort of comprehend

1858
01:59:44.034 –> 01:59:47.395
this, but dragons also serve as a stand in for the Serpent in the Garden

1859
01:59:47.395 –> 01:59:50.850
of Eden. Thus guarding the gold of knowledge.

1860
01:59:51.070 –> 01:59:54.530
Right? They are the thing that deceive

1861
01:59:54.965 –> 01:59:57.945
this is what Tolkien was going towards with smog.

1862
01:59:59.204 –> 02:00:02.824
Dragins also stand in psychologically for the negative emotions,

1863
02:00:02.885 –> 02:00:06.600
anxiety, depression, or and so on that exist

1864
02:00:06.660 –> 02:00:10.200
at the upper boundaries of psychological openness and

1865
02:00:10.340 –> 02:00:13.575
psychological neuroticism. All that

1866
02:00:13.795 –> 02:00:16.375
sensitivity to negative emotions.

1867
02:00:18.755 –> 02:00:22.430
As we turn the corner here, we had a long

1868
02:00:22.430 –> 02:00:26.270
conversation, and we’ve ranged across a number of different topic areas here

1869
02:00:26.270 –> 02:00:30.035
that I think are applicable for leaders. But, Ryan, how do we

1870
02:00:30.035 –> 02:00:33.715
deal with dragons? How do we how do leaders prepare followers to face

1871
02:00:33.715 –> 02:00:37.555
the the dragons, that are in their workplaces that are in their lives? Cause

1872
02:00:37.555 –> 02:00:41.140
there’s dragons everywhere. Mostly psychological. No one’s being

1873
02:00:41.140 –> 02:00:43.480
threatened by a giant serpent these days.

1874
02:00:44.980 –> 02:00:48.625
But my kids even like dinosaurs. And it’s interesting. Kids know this

1875
02:00:48.625 –> 02:00:52.305
even better than adults do. Like, think about every four year old you’ve ever

1876
02:00:52.305 –> 02:00:55.950
met who can pronounce the name of tyrannosaurus rex, but has

1877
02:00:55.950 –> 02:00:59.650
no idea how to identify depression or anxiety, right,

1878
02:00:59.950 –> 02:01:03.725
or dreams that children will have. Where

1879
02:01:03.725 –> 02:01:07.485
they are knights fighting dragons. In some cases, they

1880
02:01:07.485 –> 02:01:11.230
defeat the dragon, but sometimes the dragon defeats them. Or even kids

1881
02:01:11.230 –> 02:01:15.070
stories, you know, that are oriented towards children, myths

1882
02:01:15.070 –> 02:01:18.510
and legends, where there’s always a dragon that has to be

1883
02:01:18.510 –> 02:01:22.135
beaten. There’s something we’re trying to tell our children here with this

1884
02:01:22.135 –> 02:01:25.975
idea. But as adults, we sometimes forget it, or we dussy it up

1885
02:01:25.975 –> 02:01:29.400
in sophisticated language. So how could leaders

1886
02:01:29.460 –> 02:01:33.060
prepare their followers to beat the dragon? To

1887
02:01:33.060 –> 02:01:36.580
face the smog? Look, those are I’ve got some

1888
02:01:36.580 –> 02:01:40.426
notes here, and first thing I wrote was, get a suaron,

1889
02:01:41.635 –> 02:01:45.405
show them the dragon, and then watch the movie how to train your

1890
02:01:45.405 –> 02:01:48.920
dragon. I did watch that movie actually recently with my kids, actually.

1891
02:01:54.775 –> 02:01:56.795
Yes. So I was

1892
02:02:01.800 –> 02:02:05.500
watching interview. It might be like Zack Elephantakis. Okay.

1893
02:02:05.639 –> 02:02:09.400
Between your friends? Yes. No. No. No. It’s not Zack. It was somebody who

1894
02:02:09.400 –> 02:02:13.245
was like, maybe a low level or entry level of fame in Hollywood

1895
02:02:13.245 –> 02:02:17.085
person and that Zach Efron’s house. And this is

1896
02:02:17.085 –> 02:02:20.910
probably, you know, years ago, and and, and so He’s like,

1897
02:02:20.910 –> 02:02:24.670
hey. Look. His actor in front was like, this is, you know,

1898
02:02:24.670 –> 02:02:28.225
was this was Jimmy Paige’s gets 1st guitar. Les

1899
02:02:28.225 –> 02:02:31.905
Paul that he recorded stairway to heaven with. Mhmm. And the

1900
02:02:31.905 –> 02:02:35.505
first one was like, do you play guitar? And he’s like, no. And he said,

1901
02:02:35.505 –> 02:02:38.930
why do you have that guitar? He looked at it when he

1902
02:02:38.930 –> 02:02:42.470
said, I have everything. You don’t understand? I have everything.

1903
02:02:45.145 –> 02:02:48.745
And, like, if if that’s not kinda the embodiment of

1904
02:02:48.745 –> 02:02:51.965
of of kind of smog,

1905
02:02:52.370 –> 02:02:56.210
Yeah. And that hoarding and, I don’t know,

1906
02:02:56.210 –> 02:02:59.810
it the the one I opened, and how I like how

1907
02:02:59.810 –> 02:03:03.554
riddles were. Like, it uses this,

1908
02:03:04.275 –> 02:03:07.815
some sort of, like, of,

1909
02:03:07.955 –> 02:03:11.415
of, of validation. Mhmm.

1910
02:03:12.130 –> 02:03:15.889
Like, you could you could outwit someone, you know, at

1911
02:03:15.889 –> 02:03:19.730
the at the bridge, you know, to pass or in the, you know, to to

1912
02:03:19.730 –> 02:03:23.265
earn your And that’s, I think, like, to earn your

1913
02:03:23.265 –> 02:03:27.105
life, earn an opportunity to

1914
02:03:27.105 –> 02:03:30.485
further this interaction beyond me destroying you.

1915
02:03:35.489 –> 02:03:37.750
Well, smog wanted to play a game, right?

1916
02:03:40.955 –> 02:03:44.655
You know, yeah, he wants to rip and tear and destroy and

1917
02:03:45.594 –> 02:03:49.170
do all those other things. But he’s layered and complicated.

1918
02:03:49.310 –> 02:03:53.070
He’s not one dimensional. He’s not a he’s not a unidimensional marvel

1919
02:03:53.070 –> 02:03:56.455
villain. He’s got motivations. He’s got

1920
02:03:56.615 –> 02:03:58.075
needs. He’s got desires.

1921
02:04:00.695 –> 02:04:04.295
They are evil, but they are needs and desires. And it’s interesting

1922
02:04:04.295 –> 02:04:07.920
because Gandalf and smog don’t have any interaction with

1923
02:04:07.920 –> 02:04:08.660
each other.

1924
02:04:12.605 –> 02:04:15.905
And that’s I find that part to be fascinating.

1925
02:04:18.125 –> 02:04:21.505
Do you think that they would just look at each other and go, well, alright.

1926
02:04:22.810 –> 02:04:25.150
I I I think I think it’s one of those things where

1927
02:04:28.490 –> 02:04:31.710
okay. I’ll frame it this way. There used to be a time

1928
02:04:32.875 –> 02:04:35.215
not so much anymore where even criminal people

1929
02:04:41.770 –> 02:04:45.370
Recognized that there were

1930
02:04:45.370 –> 02:04:48.955
fundamentally good people out

1931
02:04:48.955 –> 02:04:52.715
there that we’re going to show up to

1932
02:04:52.715 –> 02:04:56.475
defeat them at some point. So the the big example that I’ll use is

1933
02:04:56.475 –> 02:04:57.535
Hitler and Churchill.

1934
02:05:00.090 –> 02:05:03.470
Hitler despise Churchill and Churchill despise Hitler.

1935
02:05:06.305 –> 02:05:08.565
But Hitler Churchill for

1936
02:05:10.945 –> 02:05:14.200
not bending the knee. In the Battle of Britain.

1937
02:05:15.540 –> 02:05:19.320
Matter of fact, the Hitler respected Churchill more than he respected Stalin.

1938
02:05:19.865 –> 02:05:23.625
He would have done a deal with Churchill. For sure. But

1939
02:05:23.625 –> 02:05:25.113
he understood why Churchill suaron.

1940
02:05:31.540 –> 02:05:34.520
He just thought Stalin was venal, right,

1941
02:05:35.460 –> 02:05:39.215
evil, meaning evil. Right, and making a deal with evil. Right? You’re gonna

1942
02:05:39.215 –> 02:05:42.994
stab each other in the back. Right? But good.

1943
02:05:44.079 –> 02:05:47.619
Even imperfect good, which it’s gonna always be imperfect good.

1944
02:05:47.840 –> 02:05:51.280
But imperfect good with a moral with a with a backbone, it’s just like, no.

1945
02:05:51.280 –> 02:05:55.025
This is just, like, not gonna be the thing. We’re just not gonna do

1946
02:05:55.025 –> 02:05:58.325
the dance this way. You can respect that.

1947
02:05:59.665 –> 02:06:03.105
I think that’s what you would see with smog and Gandalf. Like, we’re

1948
02:06:03.105 –> 02:06:06.310
just We’re gonna do a dance, but it’s not

1949
02:06:07.410 –> 02:06:09.670
it’s not gonna work out the way you think it is.

1950
02:06:13.494 –> 02:06:17.335
Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s it’s,

1951
02:06:17.895 –> 02:06:20.235
you know, Greg Maddox versus Tony Gwin.

1952
02:06:21.650 –> 02:06:25.430
It’s Cody. Tony Gwen. It’s, like, 6,

1953
02:06:25.890 –> 02:06:29.635
5 time. 5 time. Three time

1954
02:06:29.635 –> 02:06:33.095
Cy Young award winner of pragmatics. Yep. Tony Gwin.

1955
02:06:34.755 –> 02:06:38.170
Tony Gwin bad at something like 460

1956
02:06:38.390 –> 02:06:42.150
against Greg Maddox. So when you get

1957
02:06:42.469 –> 02:06:46.185
yeah. You’re you’re talking about the the creme de la creme against the creme de

1958
02:06:46.185 –> 02:06:49.885
la creme. And, yeah,

1959
02:06:50.345 –> 02:06:53.625
ego and your accomplishments to take you so far, but when you’re standing in that

1960
02:06:53.625 –> 02:06:56.810
room, still gotta and

1961
02:06:57.429 –> 02:07:01.110
and understanding this is the this is

1962
02:07:01.110 –> 02:07:03.815
the smaug is its competition.

1963
02:07:04.595 –> 02:07:07.815
Mhmm. He sees con and it’s the the competition

1964
02:07:08.355 –> 02:07:12.000
is engaging. Well, and you see this

1965
02:07:12.000 –> 02:07:14.420
later when Gandalf fights the ball rug in,

1966
02:07:16.640 –> 02:07:20.105
in, the fellowship of the ring. This was

1967
02:07:20.105 –> 02:07:23.945
dramatized, of course, in the movie. And then later he returns in

1968
02:07:23.945 –> 02:07:27.225
the 2 towers, you know, so you see this later on board of the rings,

1969
02:07:27.225 –> 02:07:27.725
but

1970
02:07:36.135 –> 02:07:39.735
There was no relativism inside of

1971
02:07:39.735 –> 02:07:40.235
Gandalf.

1972
02:07:44.030 –> 02:07:47.710
And just like there was no relativism inside of smog. Like, smog would play games

1973
02:07:47.710 –> 02:07:50.670
with you all day, but there’s no relativism inside of him. There was no sort

1974
02:07:50.670 –> 02:07:54.425
of yeah, I’m just gonna let that slide. No. No. There’s a principle

1975
02:07:54.425 –> 02:07:58.025
here. And I think in our time, the current time at which we

1976
02:07:58.025 –> 02:08:01.470
live, We admire uncompromising

1977
02:08:01.770 –> 02:08:05.450
people, but the

1978
02:08:05.450 –> 02:08:08.935
vast majority of us are too much in our hobbit holes to be pushed have

1979
02:08:08.935 –> 02:08:12.775
made too many compromises to stay in our houses to go

1980
02:08:12.775 –> 02:08:16.135
into that uncompromising space because being uncompromising requires

1981
02:08:16.135 –> 02:08:19.560
sacrifice. And and usually the sacrifices people won’t like

1982
02:08:19.560 –> 02:08:23.400
you. That’s that’s usually what it is in our day. You might

1983
02:08:23.400 –> 02:08:26.765
be unlikable or you might be shut out from

1984
02:08:28.425 –> 02:08:32.265
some social benefit. And by the way, I love it.

1985
02:08:32.265 –> 02:08:35.500
How you how you mentioned earlier about, like, being online, not being in social media

1986
02:08:35.500 –> 02:08:38.239
too much and taking a break from all that, that the bank’s the idea,

1987
02:08:39.099 –> 02:08:41.199
because then you’re not you’re not.

1988
02:08:43.614 –> 02:08:47.155
You’re not made by that thing. Right? Thus, it cannot break you.

1989
02:08:47.455 –> 02:08:51.215
It’s serving this thing that is it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a, you

1990
02:08:51.215 –> 02:08:55.060
know, it’s serving a concept or serving a

1991
02:08:55.060 –> 02:08:58.900
serving a the the the what’s the the value it doesn’t like, what you put,

1992
02:08:58.900 –> 02:09:02.684
it’s not it’s it doesn’t it doesn’t equate. We often

1993
02:09:02.684 –> 02:09:05.425
cannot because of the detrimental, you know, consequences.

1994
02:09:09.540 –> 02:09:13.380
There’s an idea here that we’ll be exploring more as we go more into,

1995
02:09:13.620 –> 02:09:17.455
as we go more into Lord of the Rings. Over the course of the next

1996
02:09:17.455 –> 02:09:21.135
month. We’re gonna leave Gandalf here, and we’re gonna leave smaug here because there’s

1997
02:09:21.135 –> 02:09:23.395
another bigger dragon that even smog serves,

1998
02:09:25.300 –> 02:09:29.140
a red wreathed eye in Mordor. It’s just sort

1999
02:09:29.140 –> 02:09:32.600
of hanging out in the background. That guy’s gonna be a problem.

2000
02:09:35.055 –> 02:09:38.815
But just like, there is one analogy I will make. So

2001
02:09:38.815 –> 02:09:42.335
small purchase at the top of the Busy Mountain, right, searching and searching and

2002
02:09:42.335 –> 02:09:45.950
searching. And yet he cannot find the hobbits. He

2003
02:09:45.950 –> 02:09:47.250
cannot find the

2004
02:09:50.435 –> 02:09:54.034
There is an idea in our time that evil is so all encompassing that

2005
02:09:54.034 –> 02:09:57.335
ultimately evil will win or at the very minimum,

2006
02:09:59.020 –> 02:10:02.780
passive passivity towards evil is the best response to

2007
02:10:02.780 –> 02:10:06.614
it. Because, of course, it’s gonna win because it’s all seeing. Right? It’s

2008
02:10:06.614 –> 02:10:10.394
all encompassing. This is the idea of all encompassing totalitarianism. Right?

2009
02:10:11.014 –> 02:10:14.695
We saw some of this during, in some places, during COVID,

2010
02:10:14.695 –> 02:10:17.960
right, you might as well just just put the mask on or just go do

2011
02:10:17.960 –> 02:10:21.800
the lockdown or do whatever. Right? Because, well, the government’s gonna get you

2012
02:10:21.800 –> 02:10:24.760
anyway because the all seeing eyes are there. By the way, the eyes that are

2013
02:10:24.760 –> 02:10:28.535
on your phone, the eyes that are in your that are in

2014
02:10:28.535 –> 02:10:31.975
the CCTV cameras that are on every street corner now, the

2015
02:10:31.975 –> 02:10:35.275
eyes that are in the private cameras that are in businesses,

2016
02:10:35.640 –> 02:10:39.320
There’s eyes everywhere and and the all seeing eye of the more

2017
02:10:39.320 –> 02:10:42.300
door of government is going to see you and somehow get you.

2018
02:10:44.715 –> 02:10:48.175
Or the all seeing eye of smog, parked at the top of the misty mountain.

2019
02:10:49.675 –> 02:10:53.000
And yet, something here to know.

2020
02:10:54.154 –> 02:10:57.780
Smaug didn’t find the hobbits of the doors. Now you can argue that’s because they

2021
02:10:57.780 –> 02:10:59.719
hid. Okay.

2022
02:11:02.455 –> 02:11:06.075
But Suaron didn’t spot Frodo either.

2023
02:11:12.080 –> 02:11:15.840
There’s a message here. The Tolkien is giving to us. It’s

2024
02:11:15.840 –> 02:11:19.385
a message to all the hobbit and the wizards and the good

2025
02:11:19.385 –> 02:11:19.885
people.

2026
02:11:23.385 –> 02:11:26.790
And we’ll pull more of that part. As we go further into this

2027
02:11:26.790 –> 02:11:27.290
month.

2028
02:11:30.870 –> 02:11:34.310
Final thoughts on staying on the path. What can leaders take

2029
02:11:34.310 –> 02:11:38.074
from JRR Tollkenes is the hobbit that they

2030
02:11:38.074 –> 02:11:41.915
can apply to their real lived lives, right, as we turn the corner

2031
02:11:41.915 –> 02:11:42.415
here.

2032
02:11:46.420 –> 02:11:49.540
I mean, the the the thing that pops into my head is

2033
02:11:50.740 –> 02:11:54.555
and it’s very difficult to do, and that’s how we’re at this could be

2034
02:11:54.555 –> 02:11:57.915
seen as an end pass as as far as these these, like, fundamental things

2035
02:11:57.915 –> 02:11:58.415
and,

2036
02:12:01.915 –> 02:12:05.230
is I mean, if you’re if you’re,

2037
02:12:05.770 –> 02:12:09.550
you know, I’ve I’ve wrote right now, that’s, like, authenticity.

2038
02:12:13.575 –> 02:12:16.235
But being true to your, your

2039
02:12:17.495 –> 02:12:20.510
mission statement, checking your motives.

2040
02:12:22.250 –> 02:12:25.850
You know, one of the other things I wrote on here was was was the

2041
02:12:25.850 –> 02:12:29.435
importance of of of sensitivity trainings,

2042
02:12:30.775 –> 02:12:33.755
like equine therapy or bovine therapy,

2043
02:12:34.375 –> 02:12:34.875
and

2044
02:12:38.390 –> 02:12:41.910
I think the the answer, like, the the answer

2045
02:12:42.230 –> 02:12:45.255
I mean, I don’t know the details, but I have a feeling that it’s, like,

2046
02:12:45.335 –> 02:12:47.915
is a growth mindset and one of inclusion

2047
02:12:49.014 –> 02:12:52.155
rather than, one of

2048
02:12:52.670 –> 02:12:55.650
closed mindedness and, exclusivity.

2049
02:12:58.190 –> 02:13:00.530
And that’s when I said it about the, like, the tempering.

2050
02:13:02.225 –> 02:13:05.364
Whether it’s your output of whatever your,

2051
02:13:06.945 –> 02:13:10.680
whatever you’re creating, or even because, I

2052
02:13:10.680 –> 02:13:14.440
mean, imagine if you told your child everything that you’re gonna

2053
02:13:14.440 –> 02:13:18.245
tell them their entire life, instead of telling them over the

2054
02:13:18.245 –> 02:13:22.005
course of 3 to, you know, death is you just sit

2055
02:13:22.005 –> 02:13:25.539
them down when they’re, like, 9. And just lay you

2056
02:13:25.539 –> 02:13:29.380
just lay it all out and you go, you got it. Right? Alright.

2057
02:13:29.380 –> 02:13:32.679
Don’t ever say daddy didn’t do anything for you. Good luck.

2058
02:13:33.355 –> 02:13:37.114
That’s it. Okay. I didn’t

2059
02:13:37.114 –> 02:13:40.574
tell you. It’s like, wait a minute. What are we doing here? You know? So

2060
02:13:41.380 –> 02:13:44.740
setting people up for success, understanding the pitfalls, the

2061
02:13:44.740 –> 02:13:48.200
complexities, figure out what your own

2062
02:13:48.675 –> 02:13:52.275
deficiencies are, and that’s usually a pretty good place to

2063
02:13:52.275 –> 02:13:55.975
start having people that you value in your life and say,

2064
02:13:56.230 –> 02:14:00.070
Hey, listen, you know, I mean, we’ve had conversations before and after

2065
02:14:00.070 –> 02:14:03.530
all of these podcasts. And at least,

2066
02:14:04.505 –> 02:14:08.345
doing all those conversation, there’s a bit of information that is very relevant to

2067
02:14:08.345 –> 02:14:12.045
what’s happening presently in in in my life. And

2068
02:14:12.390 –> 02:14:16.150
And if I, you know, I get some I get relief and

2069
02:14:16.150 –> 02:14:19.610
insight, and so the ability and willingness to remain

2070
02:14:20.525 –> 02:14:24.065
teachable and also learnable, if that makes any sense. Mhmm.

2071
02:14:25.724 –> 02:14:28.385
Because, you know, is is, I don’t had another,

2072
02:14:29.370 –> 02:14:33.050
Brandon AA, who was a DA, New Jersey, and he said he

2073
02:14:33.050 –> 02:14:36.750
brings, he never wants to

2074
02:14:36.755 –> 02:14:40.514
to get always gives everyone 2% because he never wants to be in a situation

2075
02:14:40.514 –> 02:14:44.295
where he thinks he knows the end all and be all. So he gives everyone

2076
02:14:44.514 –> 02:14:47.969
2% because I might

2077
02:14:47.969 –> 02:14:51.809
be wrong. And so when we’ve kind of

2078
02:14:51.809 –> 02:14:55.329
cut off the possibility of being incorrect about

2079
02:14:55.329 –> 02:14:59.114
something, that’s like an absolutism and

2080
02:14:59.114 –> 02:15:02.875
certainty, and we know when certainty comes into

2081
02:15:02.875 –> 02:15:06.389
any sort of philosophical equation that it is really making changes to

2082
02:15:06.389 –> 02:15:09.829
slippery slope. And I think understanding the all all those

2083
02:15:09.829 –> 02:15:13.324
complexities and you know, the, the, the mental makeup

2084
02:15:13.324 –> 02:15:17.165
of individuals, being like teasing out, kind

2085
02:15:17.165 –> 02:15:20.785
of, like, messing your own mind before you kind of, you know,

2086
02:15:21.090 –> 02:15:23.909
help people, you know, engage

2087
02:15:24.849 –> 02:15:27.590
with theirs in a in a way that’s most productive for,

2088
02:15:28.610 –> 02:15:32.225
the mission. I think that’s a good

2089
02:15:32.225 –> 02:15:35.905
place to stop. I’d like to thank Ryan for coming on our podcast

2090
02:15:35.905 –> 02:15:39.364
today and talk about the hobbit kicking off our big month

2091
02:15:39.585 –> 02:15:43.380
of science fiction and fantasy. This month, we’ll be covering

2092
02:15:43.380 –> 02:15:46.760
Enders Game. We’ll be talking about all

2093
02:15:46.980 –> 02:15:50.715
of the all of the lord of the

2094
02:15:50.715 –> 02:15:54.475
rings books. So we’ll be covering the fellowship of the ring, the 2 Towers

2095
02:15:54.475 –> 02:15:58.239
and, of course, return of the king We’ll be doing that with

2096
02:15:58.239 –> 02:16:02.080
a plethora of guest cohosts. And so I wanna thank Brian for

2097
02:16:02.080 –> 02:16:04.980
kicking us off for this, for this month.

2098
02:16:07.235 –> 02:16:10.755
And with that and by the way, by the way, this is the last time

2099
02:16:10.755 –> 02:16:14.535
that Ryan will be appearing on the podcast this season, this year.

2100
02:16:14.850 –> 02:16:18.690
Of the leadership lessons from the great books podcast. So we’re rounding

2101
02:16:18.690 –> 02:16:22.450
the corner here and getting ready to begin season 3 of the podcast next

2102
02:16:22.450 –> 02:16:26.215
year, and he’ll be hopefully willing to appear next year,

2103
02:16:26.935 –> 02:16:30.695
kinda like Wes Anderson had somebody compare this podcast to a Wes Anderson

2104
02:16:30.695 –> 02:16:34.430
film. One time where I have all my cast of players, and I’m

2105
02:16:34.430 –> 02:16:38.270
sort of directing everybody and pulling all the strings. It’s not nearly that

2106
02:16:38.270 –> 02:16:41.635
clean, folks, just just know But,

2107
02:16:42.034 –> 02:16:45.635
Ryan will be appearing next year with a whole new stack of

2108
02:16:45.635 –> 02:16:49.154
books, that, we will encourage him to, to talk

2109
02:16:49.154 –> 02:16:52.530
about So I wanna thank him for coming on the show. I really do appreciate

2110
02:16:52.530 –> 02:16:56.209
it. I I I and and and let’s thank yous,

2111
02:16:56.530 –> 02:17:00.245
as well. And the complexities and to kind of

2112
02:17:00.245 –> 02:17:02.665
tag that last, closing

2113
02:17:03.605 –> 02:17:07.125
is, you know, surrounding yourself with people

2114
02:17:07.125 –> 02:17:09.049
or, you know, who

2115
02:17:10.709 –> 02:17:13.290
who encouraged growth,

2116
02:17:14.389 –> 02:17:17.854
and because it’s always it’s very

2117
02:17:17.854 –> 02:17:21.455
difficult to to I I’ve I’ve

2118
02:17:21.455 –> 02:17:25.215
experienced lots of people who are natural born learners and thirst for

2119
02:17:25.215 –> 02:17:28.760
that. And I mine is a more of a struggle,

2120
02:17:28.760 –> 02:17:32.059
and I find it much easier and conducive

2121
02:17:32.695 –> 02:17:35.735
to that, which I feel is like the most beneficial way to occupy my mind

2122
02:17:35.735 –> 02:17:39.575
and and integrate into society as we know it, is to do my best to

2123
02:17:39.575 –> 02:17:43.160
surround myself with those people, optimistic people, people have growth

2124
02:17:43.160 –> 02:17:46.680
mindset and people who have, like, like, just a

2125
02:17:46.680 –> 02:17:50.379
genuine interest to get to get to the bottom of it, whatever it is.

2126
02:17:50.995 –> 02:17:53.655
And so with all that, remember to rest.

2127
02:17:55.475 –> 02:17:58.135
And well, we’re out.