The Count of Monte Cristo – Part 2 by Alexandre Dumas w/Christen Blair Horne

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Giddy up. Alright.

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Leadership lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode

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number one forty two.

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Christen b Horn,

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Count of Monte Cristo part two in

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three, two, one.

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is

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Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast episode

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number one forty two.

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In this episode, we are revisiting a massive

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book that we started visiting about a year

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ago. This is a book, a

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novel, a story featuring intrigue, adventure, romance,

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pathos, and more. It literally covers the

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entire emotional pantheon of a human

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being. And it is all set against the background

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of the French Revolution and the aftermath of the actions

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of the buzz saw that cut across Europe known as

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Napoleon Bonaparte. This book is so long

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that, of course, it will take us several episodes, for us to cover it, and,

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actually, myself and I cohost today were talking about this. It might take us

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10 episodes to cover it, in which case we will have an entire course

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available to you for consumption. And

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so this episode acts as the second part

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to the first episode where we introduce this book and talk briefly about its

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overarching themes in episode number one twelve. I would

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encourage you to go back and listen to that. Today, we

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will be summarizing and analyzing the themes for leaders embedded

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in the second part

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of the 1,243 page phone book of

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a novel. I’m going to hold it up for you.

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The count of Monte Cristo, Alexandra

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or Alexander depending upon which pronunciation you like,

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Dumas. Leaders, check your

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six for that ambitious fellow from Elba

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might be lurking around in the background.

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And today, we will be rejoined. We will be

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reconstituting our conversation or or, you know,

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rejoining our conversation, with our

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soon to be regular, cohost here, at least for this

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book anyway, and our resident experts on the Count of

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Monte Cristo. Back from episode number one twelve, Christen

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b Horn. Hello, Christen. How are you doing today? Hello. I am

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well. It’s a good day. It is a good day.

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Well, any day that you can be reading about the Count of Monte Cristo, any

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day that you can be reading it with yeah. With with people. Any

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any day like that is a good day. It is. So,

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gonna pick up here, and,

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we’re going to start off here with, chapter

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10, at least in my version of the Count of Monte Cristo, was chapter 10,

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your your mileage, open source and otherwise, may vary.

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But the title of the chapter that we’re going to be picking up

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with is going to be the the little cabinet in the Tuileries.

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K? And I wanna pick up here, read a little bit

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from the count of Monte Cristo to set the tone for what we’re going

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to be talking about today. Let us

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leave Villefort, going hell for leather down the road to Paris, having paid for extra

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horses at every stage, and precede him through the two or three rooms into the

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little cabinet at the Tuileries with its arched window famous for having been the

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favorite study of Napoleon and King Louis the

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eighteenth and today for being that of King Louis

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Philippe. You’re seated in front of a walnut table that he had brought back from

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Hartwell to which, by one of those foibles usually among great men, he

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was especially partial. King Louis the eighteenth was listening

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without particular attention to a man of between 50 and 52

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years, gray haired with aristocratic features and meticulously tuned

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turned out, while at the same time making marginal notes in a volume of

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Horace, the Gryphius edition, much admired but often inaccurate,

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which used to contribute more than a little to his majesty’s learning

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observations on philology. You were saying,

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the king asked, that I feel deeply disquieted, sire.

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Really? Have you by any chance dreamt of seven fat and seven lean cows?

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No, sire, for that would presage only seven years of fertility and seven of famine.

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And with a king as farsighted as your majesty, we need have no

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fear of famine. So what other scourge might

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afflict us, my dear Blacas? I have a reason to believe, sire, that there is

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a storm brewing from the direction of the South. And I, my dear

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duke, replied Louis the eighteenth, think that you are very ill informed because I know

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for a fact, on the contrary, the weather down there is excellent.

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Despite being a man of some wit, Louis the eighteenth liked to indulge a

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facile sense of humor. Sire,

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Monsieur de Blanc continued, if only to reassure his faithful servant, might your

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majesty not send some trusty men to Languedoc, to Provence,

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and to the Dauphin to give him a report on the feeling of these three

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provinces? The king replied, carrying

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on with the annotation of his horse. The courtier laughed to give the

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impression that he understood the phrase from the poem of Anusia. Your majesty may

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well be perfectly correct to trust in the loyalty of the French, but I think

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I might I may not altogether be wrong to anticipate some

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desperate adventure. By whom? By

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Bonaparte or at least those of his faction. My dear Blacas,

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said the king. You are interrupting my work with your horrid tales.

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And you, sire, are keeping me from my sleep with fears for your

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safety. One moment, my good friend. Wait one moment. I have

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been here a most perspicacious note on the line,

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Let me finish it, and you can tell me afterwards. There was a

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brief silence while Louis the eighteenth in handwriting that he made as tiny as

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possible wrote a new note in the margin of his Horace. Then when the note

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was written, he looked up with the satisfied air of a man who thinks he

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has made a discovery when he has commented on someone else’s idea and said,

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carry on, my dear duke. Carry on. I am listening.

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Sire, said Blacas, who had briefly hoped to use Bellefort to his own advantage,

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I have to tell you that this news that troubles me is not some vague

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whisper. There are no mere unfounded rumors. A right thinking man who has

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my entire confidence as was required by me to keep a watch on the South,

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Duke hesitated as he said this, has just arrived post haste to tell me that

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there is a great danger threatening the king. And so, sire, I came at once.

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Louis the eighteenth continued, making another note.

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Is your majesty working with me to say no more on this topic? No, my

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dear Duke, but stretch off your hand. Which one? Whichever one you

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prefer. Over there, on the left. Here, sire?

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I tell you to the left, you look on the right. I mean, my left.

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There you have it. You should you should find a report from the minister of

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police with yesterday’s date, but here is himself. You

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did say didn’t you? Louis the eighteenth remarks turning to the

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usher who had indeed just announced the minister of police.

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Yes, sire. The

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usher repeated. That’s it, Baron, Louis the eighteenth continued

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with a faint smile. Come in, Baron, and tell the duke your most recent news

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about. This is nothing from us, however serious the situation may

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be. Let’s see. Is that the island of Elba a volcano? And

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shall we not see war burst from it, bristling and blazing?

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Bella. Led elegantly back against the chair,

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resting both hands upon it and said, was your majesty good enough to consult my

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report of yesterday’s date? Yes. Of course. But tell the duke what was in this

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report because he is unable to find it. Let him know everything that the youth

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sufferers doing on his island. Bonjour, the baron

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said to the dew. All his majesty’s servants should applaud the latest news that we

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have received from Elba. Bonaparte, Monsieur Dandre returned to

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Louis the eighteenth who was busy writing a note and did not even look up.

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Bonaparte, the baron continued his board to death. He spends whole

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days watching his miners at work in Porto Longon.

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He scratches himself as a distraction, said the king. He scratches

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himself? The duke said. What does your majesty mean?

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Yes. Indeed, my dear duke. You forgot that this great man, this

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hero, this demigod is driven to distraction by a skin

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ailment, There is more,

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said the minister of police. We are almost certain that the usurper will be shortly

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mad. Mad? Utterly,

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his head is softening. Sometimes he weeps bitterly at others. He laughs

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hysterically. On some occasions, he spends hours sitting on the shore playing at ducks

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and drinks. And when a pebble makes five or six leaps, he seems as satisfied

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as though he had won another battle of Marengo or Austerlitz.

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You must agree that these are signs of folly.

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War of wisdom, was your laverre. War of wisdom, said Louis the eighteenth with a

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laugh. The great captains of antiquity used to replenish their

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spirits by playing at ducks and bricks.

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See Plutarch’s life of Scipio,

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Africanus.

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You gotta love reading this kind of stuff two

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hundred years later. It is almost exactly two hundred years later since the

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events that, Alexandre Dumas describes

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with such clarity and alacrity in the court

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of Louis the eighteenth in the Count of Monte Cristo. And so

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today, I’d like to talk about Louis the eighteenth. I’d like to talk

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about Napoleon Bonaparte, that scourge who

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they trapped on the Isle above Elba after he rampaged

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around Europe and gave everybody fits. I’d also like

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to talk a little bit about what we can learn from

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bureaucratic obsequience and obeisance

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that we see there in the court of Louis the eighteenth

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and, of course, the hundred days of Napoleon

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where he rescared everybody or at least

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the elites of Europe half to death.

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So let’s turn and start with the literary life of Louis the

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eighteenth. Louis the eighteenth was born Louis Stanislav

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Xavier. He was born on 11/17/1755, and he

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died 09/16/1824.

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He lived almost a complete life. He was

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known as the desired in French, Les Desiree, and he was king of France from

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1814 to 1824, except for a brief interruption during the

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hundred days, which is, related in the, in the count

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of Monte Cristo, in 1815.

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Before his reign, he spent twenty three years in exile from France, starting in

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1791 during the French Revolution and the first French empire.

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Until his ascension to the throne of France, he held the title of count of

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Provence as the brother of King Louis the

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sixteenth, the last king of the Anshan regime.

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Following the French Revolution and during the Napoleonic era, Louis the eighteenth lived

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in exile in Prussia, Great Britain, and Russia.

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Now there’s a lot more about Louis the eighteenth. He was a fascinating

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character. As I was telling, Christian before we got started

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here, he, got married,

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apparently was unable to consummate his marriage. He

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suffered from obesity and gout because while he was knowledgeable, he

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was also gluttonous, and he failed

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to generate an heir, which

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most kings did not realize back in the day.

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Basic biology says it’s a man’s fault if you can’t produce an

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heir.

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But let me not sully history

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with biological facts.

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So let’s get started on this, Kristen. You love this book. That’s why I’ve I’ve

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had you all to talk about it. And you love it that we’re sly. I

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hope you love it that we’re slogging through it because we got a lot slogged

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through on this. It’s like when it’s always the problem

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when they make books into movies. Right? You’re like, you skipped all the best parts.

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Like, it’s not always true, but it’s like when when we have the time to

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just go through it all, you’re like, yes.

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Yes. So let’s, well, then let’s let’s talk a

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little bit about Louis the eighteenth and his character in the Count of

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Monte Cristo. So there’s there’s Louis the eighteenth, the character, and there’s Louis the

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eighteenth, the actual, like, human being who lived. And Dumas, of

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course, takes the literary license as do most writers and creatives.

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And, I think that that is something that is missing in our current era.

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We don’t have anybody who has the guts, I would assert, to take literary

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license with real people because, partially, it’s because the social media thing and the

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Internet thing, we all know too much about everybody. And so to take literary

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license would be like, please. I’m being creative.

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But maybe I’m wrong. People have done it, actually, and they they got a lot

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of criticism. It’s a movie called,

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oh my gosh. The name literally just flew out of my head. It’s about P.

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T. Barnum. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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My kid loves the songs from that movie. Yeah. Greatest Showman. Greatest

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Showman. I love the music. Music’s great. Hugh Jackman is great.

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Right. Zendaya, what’s the other kid’s name? Zed

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kid. Zac Efron. They all did amazing. It’s a great I I love that

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movie. But historically, completely like, I don’t know about completely

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inaccurate, but aside from the fact that PT Parnham started the the

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circus, that’s about it. That’s

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what they got right or historically accurate. Right. So

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there’s a lot of license being taken, and the movie got a lot of

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criticism for it. But at the same time, it

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made the characters It’s a movie. It’s a movie. It was enjoyable. It made the

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characters relatable. So, yes, I have lots of I have lots of opinions about

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this. Well, okay. So you’re you’re an

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artist. You’re, you know, you’re creative. You’re

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in you’re in the space of trying to put something in the world,

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whether that’s, you know, something that you generated off

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the top of your head or, you know, businesses you’re doing, something like that.

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Right? It’s really, really hard, and I think

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it’s always been hard to take someone who is known.

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Like, Louis the eighteenth was known, and everybody had an opinion about Louis the

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eighteenth. I think if the people of France had had Twitter back then,

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they had been tweeting about him. They’d have been a real

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problem for him, not for them. They would have been fine.

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How can and this is the this is the this is the question of the

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day. How can artists, can us as artists make current events

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as compelling in writing as Du Maur made his current

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events compelling for his audience? How do we how do we capture that? Because I

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don’t I think we fail to capture that. Well, something that I was

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thinking about. I have I almost have two answers. I have one that feels like

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it’s not it doesn’t relate to the book, and then I have one that is

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is more related to the book. So I guess we’ll start with that one is

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I feel like what Dumas did with Louis

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the eighteenth is I was also looking up dates.

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Mhmm. Because this, like, Bonaparte and Louis the

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eighteenth, that all happened, like,

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before Dumas’ time. Yeah. And he would be growing

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up with these stories, hearing them from his

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parents, hearing their their filters, hearing all the adults. Right? And

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so he would be kind of absorbing this as almost,

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not legends, but, you know, just stories of the ours our

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storied past. Right. And so then

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he’s putting it together, and he as as an artist, I think you

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always wanna make it relatable. And so I think

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what he did here is, like, there is a person. There’s a

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person that he knew that he just decided to

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call Louis the eighteenth because he was like, I bet Louis the eighteenth was like

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this. And then every French person was like, oh

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my gosh. I know that guy. And that’s how

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you make it compelling. You you pick it specific enough,

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and you’re not afraid to, you know,

264
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maybe throw some shade. Because,

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honestly, what’s movie he’s gonna do? He’s dead. Yeah. It’s like the

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Leonardo DiCaprio meme from, once upon a time in

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Hollywood. Right? That that one scene where he’s, like, drinking the beer, and he’s got

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the cigarette, and he comes up off the couch. He’s, like, pointing at the thing,

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the meme that you see flowing down. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Who’s that

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guy?

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So Okay. So that’s and and I guess that

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kinda does tie into my like, the second answer is you you you

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gotta humanize people. And Mhmm. On both on

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both of the end ends of the spectrum. I feel like when artists talk about

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humanizing people, they usually mean, make

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them sympathetic. Mhmm. That is often

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what it means. Mhmm. But it

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also means showing them when they’re kind of ridiculous,

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when they make like, they’re just yeah. Like this guy, he’s not even listening.

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He’s just like, I’m gonna make these notes in my book and be

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all learned and have this air about me. And we’re like, we know that

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guy. We you know someone who’s like that. And when you

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read this story, you’re like, that’s

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and I think that’s part of how you make it compelling. And it

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actually goes it reminds me of marketing a lot, actually, because, you know,

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they they tell you, you know, to pick your target market and

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narrow it down and narrow it down and write to your target market. Like, you’re

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only writing to one person. Everybody’s too scared to do

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that because they think that it it won’t it

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will, like, limit my audience. It will limit my sales. And, like, that’s

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not true. Like, artists, authors have been doing

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this for eons.

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And that’s write to your target market, though, don’t you have to

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know or have a sense or have sympathy for the

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market you’re writing to. Or not sim yes. Yeah. To understand

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them. Yeah. And understand them. Yeah. Or or empathy maybe. I think empathy is probably

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00:18:49,870 –> 00:18:53,710
a better term these days. But okay. Empathy for your target market. Right? You

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have to have empathy for the people who are reading the

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book or consuming the not consuming,

300
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watching the movie or listening to the music. Right? You have to have empathy for

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00:19:04,164 –> 00:19:07,524
those people. Right? For that to Yeah. Yeah. And if you’re talking down to

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00:19:07,524 –> 00:19:11,130
them, they usually know. Right. They

303
00:19:11,130 –> 00:19:13,230
can they can tell. Okay. Yeah. So,

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00:19:16,650 –> 00:19:19,950
the I like what you said about humanizing

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people. Why I have

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00:19:23,690 –> 00:19:27,414
ideas on why. But from your where you’re sitting in

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the spot where you’re at, because you’re you’re in California, you’re in the mail

308
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storm of things. Oh, yes.

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00:19:35,654 –> 00:19:39,414
Why do creatives in the last twenty five

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years have trouble humanizing the people people they’re writing about

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or creating about? Oof. Yeah. I’m gonna go ahead

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00:19:46,880 –> 00:19:50,160
and ask you the hard question of Brian. Oh. Because we’re gonna we haven’t gotten

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00:19:50,160 –> 00:19:52,960
to Napoleon Bonaparte yet, and that’s I mean, there you go. Like, I’m gonna talk

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00:19:52,960 –> 00:19:56,725
a little about the Napoleon movie that just came out, which is trash. Twenty

315
00:19:56,725 –> 00:20:00,565
five years. Oh, right. Yeah. I haven’t I

316
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haven’t even bought it. I watched it on I watched it on a plane. I

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was like, because I’m a Ridley Scott guy. I watched it on a plane, and

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I didn’t even make it through, like, the half hour of it before I was

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00:20:08,965 –> 00:20:12,740
like, this is right. Now there is a new Count of Monte Cristo movie,

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00:20:12,740 –> 00:20:16,580
and it’s in French. So I’m actually quite interested. Like, oh,

321
00:20:16,580 –> 00:20:19,960
if the French made it, like, maybe it’ll be good.

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Maybe it’ll be good. And I’ve seen good things about it. But okay.

323
00:20:24,020 –> 00:20:27,835
So why have artists have trouble have been

324
00:20:27,835 –> 00:20:30,175
having trouble writing humanizing people?

325
00:20:31,275 –> 00:20:34,415
Yeah. Because, like, you could humanize okay.

326
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So I don’t know. It depends on who you’re reading. Right? Maybe the,

327
00:20:38,635 –> 00:20:42,409
like, the, like, your people writing for Hollywood.

328
00:20:43,110 –> 00:20:46,470
No. I don’t well, I don’t know if anybody’s happy for with

329
00:20:46,470 –> 00:20:49,990
Hollywood right now, actually. No one is. The people who

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are who are looking for good writing and good movies and good cinema are

331
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mad because nothing is good right now. And then the people that they’re

332
00:20:57,625 –> 00:21:01,465
trying to please right now are mad because it’s not good and it’s not doing

333
00:21:01,465 –> 00:21:05,304
well. So it’s just like So so we are

334
00:21:05,304 –> 00:21:09,144
recording this. We are recording this. The the weekend when Snow

335
00:21:09,144 –> 00:21:12,970
White Snow White live action movie is good. Oh.

336
00:21:12,970 –> 00:21:16,029
And that’s the sound right there. That’s the sound right there.

337
00:21:16,970 –> 00:21:20,570
I’m not even I haven’t watched like, I have completely abandoned most of

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00:21:20,570 –> 00:21:24,385
my most of my, what

339
00:21:24,385 –> 00:21:28,144
is it, my my interests if it’s coming from Hollywood or

340
00:21:28,144 –> 00:21:30,385
just, like, I’m out. What

341
00:21:32,065 –> 00:21:35,904
just Star Wars, Marvel, any and it’s just like, I’m out. Like, I’m

342
00:21:36,065 –> 00:21:39,750
I’m out. I’m out. I tried gatekeeping. Even People didn’t let me

343
00:21:39,830 –> 00:21:43,670
I’m out. Even even, like, the new Daredevil show, just to nerd out

344
00:21:43,670 –> 00:21:47,110
just for a little Yeah. Yeah. No. Go ahead. I’ve I’ve heard I’ve heard like,

345
00:21:47,110 –> 00:21:50,925
the new Daredevil show is, like, okay. I might actually try

346
00:21:50,925 –> 00:21:54,685
that one. I’m still nervous. I’d still don’t think it’s gonna be

347
00:21:54,685 –> 00:21:58,045
good, but that’s the first thing I’ve seen in a while that I’m

348
00:21:58,045 –> 00:22:01,885
like, okay. Maybe. All I know

349
00:22:01,885 –> 00:22:05,630
is Amazon is gonna ruin James Bond.

350
00:22:05,630 –> 00:22:09,410
That’s all I know. They’re gonna Star Wars up James Bond. Probably.

351
00:22:09,549 –> 00:22:12,670
And I will have absolutely nothing to do with it. I’m I’m not gonna have

352
00:22:12,670 –> 00:22:16,030
anything to do with it. You know what Amazon did well, and this is because

353
00:22:16,030 –> 00:22:18,945
they left it up to the creatives, and this is an amazing creative team. There’s

354
00:22:18,945 –> 00:22:22,705
a creative team out there called Critical Role, and it’s a bunch of nerdy voice

355
00:22:22,705 –> 00:22:26,465
actors that play d and d. And they created this story throughout their

356
00:22:26,465 –> 00:22:29,845
d and d campaign, and now they’re porting it to an animated show.

357
00:22:30,450 –> 00:22:33,270
Amazon produced that because they raised all the money themselves,

358
00:22:34,929 –> 00:22:38,370
and it does amazingly. And it’s well

359
00:22:38,370 –> 00:22:42,149
written as well. It’s obviously well voice acted. It just

360
00:22:43,169 –> 00:22:47,005
that’s that’s the probably the best show that Amazon, in my

361
00:22:47,005 –> 00:22:50,845
opinion, has put out in a while. So back to this

362
00:22:50,845 –> 00:22:54,605
question, if I’m not to why yeah. But, but my

363
00:22:54,605 –> 00:22:58,380
first thought is that people get preachy, and then

364
00:22:58,380 –> 00:23:02,080
they lose sight of, like, actually humanizing people.

365
00:23:02,860 –> 00:23:06,700
Right? They they they’re they want so badly to

366
00:23:06,700 –> 00:23:10,080
bring awareness or sympathy or

367
00:23:10,465 –> 00:23:14,145
compassion or whatever understanding, whatever it is around this issue that

368
00:23:14,145 –> 00:23:17,985
they think needs so badly to be out there. And

369
00:23:17,985 –> 00:23:21,665
I’m generalizing hardcore here. But then they

370
00:23:21,665 –> 00:23:23,365
just they lose sight

371
00:23:26,340 –> 00:23:30,180
of of letting letting it be

372
00:23:30,180 –> 00:23:33,080
real. Almost like they feel like they have to editorialize

373
00:23:34,100 –> 00:23:37,755
in order for people to believe that this is something

374
00:23:37,755 –> 00:23:41,455
they need to be paying attention to. Does that make sense?

375
00:23:41,755 –> 00:23:45,435
And then you start to then I think audiences start to catch on to that.

376
00:23:45,435 –> 00:23:48,795
We’re like, this character is too

377
00:23:48,795 –> 00:23:52,549
sympathetic. Mhmm. They’re like, really? This this that’s

378
00:23:52,710 –> 00:23:56,470
they’re just completely a victim every time at every turn? We’re like,

379
00:23:56,470 –> 00:24:00,230
nobody maybe not nobody. That’s

380
00:24:00,230 –> 00:24:03,669
a blanket statement. Right? But it’s just, like, so very

381
00:24:03,669 –> 00:24:07,395
few situations. Is it like

382
00:24:08,115 –> 00:24:11,875
There are very few situations Show them make a mistake. Right. Right.

383
00:24:11,875 –> 00:24:15,715
Well, there’s very few situations where and and do we

384
00:24:15,715 –> 00:24:19,015
even see this, by the way, in the count of Monte Cristo? Like,

385
00:24:19,900 –> 00:24:23,500
yes. Louis the eighteenth is, to your point, a caricature or

386
00:24:23,500 –> 00:24:26,559
conglomeration of a bunch of people together who everybody recognizes.

387
00:24:26,940 –> 00:24:30,480
Right. But he also is Dumas had enough

388
00:24:30,940 –> 00:24:34,565
empathy to to put

389
00:24:34,565 –> 00:24:38,325
the human touches in him. So the human touch is he’s

390
00:24:38,325 –> 00:24:42,085
marking a porous, and he’s quoting from the life of Africa, you

391
00:24:42,085 –> 00:24:45,899
know, Scipio Africanus. Right? Like, he’s and,

392
00:24:45,899 –> 00:24:49,659
of course, these are literary references that people nowadays won’t know, unless

393
00:24:49,659 –> 00:24:53,340
they’re well read. But he’s making in jokes

394
00:24:53,340 –> 00:24:56,559
through even those literary references that humanize

395
00:24:57,659 –> 00:25:00,159
this person who,

396
00:25:01,865 –> 00:25:05,385
and and I I I have not Is a figurehead. Yeah. Who’s a figurehead. Right.

397
00:25:05,385 –> 00:25:08,264
He’s a figurehead. Right. Right. And I haven’t even I haven’t touched on politics yet.

398
00:25:08,264 –> 00:25:11,465
Like, this is even a political statement. That’s what I was thinking. Like, I looked

399
00:25:11,465 –> 00:25:14,450
up it would be like me trying to write. Well, actually, the reason I this

400
00:25:14,450 –> 00:25:17,970
popped into my head is because Nixon in China is an opera Oh. That I

401
00:25:17,970 –> 00:25:21,730
thought did really well. Like, it didn’t villainize Nixon. It just kinda let

402
00:25:21,730 –> 00:25:25,495
him be. Mhmm. Also, the, you know, the you you

403
00:25:25,495 –> 00:25:28,534
mentioned, it’s like, why don’t why aren’t we allowed to do this, anymore? It’s like,

404
00:25:28,534 –> 00:25:32,375
well, lawsuits. Yeah. Yeah. There’s a lot

405
00:25:32,375 –> 00:25:36,215
of litigation and and copywriting copywriting. I don’t know if that’s the right word,

406
00:25:36,215 –> 00:25:40,050
but licensing and and all the laws and and stuff about

407
00:25:40,290 –> 00:25:44,050
writing about doing art on people that

408
00:25:44,050 –> 00:25:47,730
are still alive. But, anyway, so there’s the opera of Nixon in China, and we’re

409
00:25:47,730 –> 00:25:51,570
like, that’s kinda similar, like, in in terms of my timeline because that like, when

410
00:25:51,570 –> 00:25:55,295
Nixon went to China, it was, like, nineteen seventy something.

411
00:25:55,295 –> 00:25:59,135
And then somebody was kinda the last twenty years wrote

412
00:25:59,135 –> 00:26:02,195
an opera about it. Heggie. Right. I guess Heggie.

413
00:26:04,015 –> 00:26:07,455
Wait. No. That was a different opera. I don’t think it was Heggie. Anyway Doesn’t

414
00:26:07,455 –> 00:26:11,030
matter. It doesn’t matter. But it was just it was really

415
00:26:11,030 –> 00:26:14,550
interesting because Right. I had actually never watched anything about

416
00:26:14,550 –> 00:26:18,010
Nixon before. And my mom was sitting

417
00:26:18,310 –> 00:26:21,670
right there with me, and I guess the guy that was singing for

418
00:26:21,670 –> 00:26:25,475
Nixon did his homework because she was like, oh my

419
00:26:25,475 –> 00:26:29,175
gosh. Like, he’d like, his mannerisms, the way he walked,

420
00:26:29,475 –> 00:26:32,915
the way he would move, look at someone. He just really was

421
00:26:32,995 –> 00:26:36,820
apparently, really studied and just was giving off

422
00:26:36,820 –> 00:26:40,260
big Nixon vibes. So all that to say is but it didn’t

423
00:26:40,260 –> 00:26:43,860
villainize him. It just placed them in the scene, be

424
00:26:43,860 –> 00:26:47,460
like, this is what happened. This is what

425
00:26:47,460 –> 00:26:51,184
happened. Yeah. Well, I wonder if I wonder if partially also

426
00:26:51,184 –> 00:26:52,485
because we are

427
00:26:56,544 –> 00:27:00,304
we’re unable to see and I’m not the first person to point this out.

428
00:27:00,304 –> 00:27:03,960
We’re unable to see individuals who are

429
00:27:03,960 –> 00:27:07,500
standing in as avatars from our for our political enemies.

430
00:27:07,640 –> 00:27:11,100
We’re unable to see them as human beings who just have a different

431
00:27:11,880 –> 00:27:15,480
view of the world. So I’ll do both sides here just so that I can

432
00:27:15,480 –> 00:27:18,975
be accused of being fair, You know?

433
00:27:19,315 –> 00:27:23,115
Because I care about that. If I am writing

434
00:27:23,115 –> 00:27:26,735
a play about the rise and fall of Barack Obama,

435
00:27:27,274 –> 00:27:31,050
I have to be empathetic to people that supported Barack Obama.

436
00:27:31,050 –> 00:27:34,090
Like, I have to see them as human beings. And I act and actually, they

437
00:27:34,090 –> 00:27:37,930
were not even people who supported him. I have to be empathetic to Barack Obama

438
00:27:37,930 –> 00:27:41,290
and write him as much of a as as as much of a

439
00:27:41,290 –> 00:27:44,890
human being making human decisions and suffering from

440
00:27:44,890 –> 00:27:48,545
human foibles as I possibly can. By the way, I

441
00:27:48,545 –> 00:27:52,065
also have to do that if I’m going to write a

442
00:27:52,065 –> 00:27:55,905
play about Donald Trump. Like, I just I have to write

443
00:27:55,905 –> 00:27:58,885
Donald Trump as a real human being, not a caricature

444
00:27:59,630 –> 00:28:03,230
that shows up on some float and some protest in Germany while

445
00:28:03,230 –> 00:28:06,990
someone’s burning a Tesla. Like, it can’t it can’t it can’t be those

446
00:28:06,990 –> 00:28:10,670
things. Right? You have to figure out what is what is Trump what do Obama

447
00:28:10,750 –> 00:28:13,970
what does Obama what do they care about? What makes them human?

448
00:28:14,835 –> 00:28:18,195
Because as soon as you learn that, all of a

449
00:28:18,195 –> 00:28:22,035
sudden, everything then by really by care about, I mean, really care

450
00:28:22,035 –> 00:28:25,315
about, not what the news is gonna tell you. The and this goes for both

451
00:28:25,315 –> 00:28:29,150
men. Right? Just like what what do they care about as human

452
00:28:29,150 –> 00:28:32,990
beings? What’s important to them? What are their values? And as and even if

453
00:28:32,990 –> 00:28:36,750
you start listening to that verbiage change, all of a

454
00:28:36,750 –> 00:28:40,270
sudden, it it starts to sound like, you know, we’re in we’re reading a a

455
00:28:40,270 –> 00:28:44,015
leadership book instead of

456
00:28:44,015 –> 00:28:45,955
talking about politics. Like, oh,

457
00:28:47,615 –> 00:28:51,375
maybe we need to revisit how we talk about politics. And I

458
00:28:51,375 –> 00:28:55,135
do not like I don’t know why I feel the need to to make

459
00:28:55,135 –> 00:28:58,700
this, disclaimer. I don’t like Trump. I don’t like

460
00:28:58,760 –> 00:29:02,440
him. Every story I hear, I’m just like, I this

461
00:29:02,440 –> 00:29:06,280
man is our president, but I didn’t particularly love Obama either. Like,

462
00:29:06,280 –> 00:29:10,035
you made some decisions, but I’m just like, You know?

463
00:29:10,035 –> 00:29:13,715
So it’s like but but that’s politics. Right? That doesn’t mean

464
00:29:13,715 –> 00:29:16,855
they’re not Exactly. Doesn’t mean they’re,

465
00:29:17,555 –> 00:29:21,335
I don’t know, gonna bring about the end of the world or

466
00:29:21,395 –> 00:29:22,455
save the world.

467
00:29:25,679 –> 00:29:28,980
This right there. Put a put a mark on that in here.

468
00:29:30,399 –> 00:29:33,860
No human being. No politician. No policymaker.

469
00:29:34,399 –> 00:29:38,159
No legislator. And I think that’s really this idea is really

470
00:29:38,159 –> 00:29:39,700
tough that I’m about to say

471
00:29:42,225 –> 00:29:44,725
in our in our system of governance

472
00:29:45,665 –> 00:29:49,445
because we are a republican

473
00:29:49,665 –> 00:29:53,205
system of government, small r, based off of a constitution.

474
00:29:54,190 –> 00:29:57,950
And that constitution, because we’ve expanded the agency and

475
00:29:57,950 –> 00:30:01,070
the ability of it to cover a number of different people that it was not

476
00:30:01,070 –> 00:30:04,910
originally meant to cover, or or the original intent

477
00:30:04,910 –> 00:30:08,625
of the founders was not that those individuals would be covered, but the the

478
00:30:08,765 –> 00:30:12,205
the the beauty and the horror of The United States is

479
00:30:12,205 –> 00:30:15,645
that we have pushed the boundaries of that

480
00:30:15,645 –> 00:30:19,025
document and stretched it beyond its original understanding

481
00:30:19,485 –> 00:30:23,260
from good or ill. And I can argue both sides of that.

482
00:30:24,360 –> 00:30:27,880
And in doing so, we’ve changed the way that people think about their

483
00:30:27,880 –> 00:30:31,180
relationship to politicians. And that is fundamentally

484
00:30:31,640 –> 00:30:35,320
different, I think, than the way that people thought about their relationship to a

485
00:30:35,320 –> 00:30:39,135
politician during the time of the French revolution, during Bonaparte, during Louis

486
00:30:39,135 –> 00:30:42,735
the eighteenth. I mean, we we make

487
00:30:42,735 –> 00:30:46,335
claims in this country, political claims on both political

488
00:30:46,335 –> 00:30:50,015
sides that a president is behaving like a king. We do. That’s like a

489
00:30:50,015 –> 00:30:53,860
slur that you throw out to to slam a politician in The United States.

490
00:30:54,400 –> 00:30:58,240
But the fact that we even throw out that slur is indicative

491
00:30:58,240 –> 00:31:02,000
of the fact that we would all we are all trained to

492
00:31:02,000 –> 00:31:05,775
be in a system where we will not be ruled by a

493
00:31:05,775 –> 00:31:09,375
king. Instead, we will all

494
00:31:09,375 –> 00:31:13,215
democratically rule each other, and it’s

495
00:31:13,215 –> 00:31:16,910
hard to really empathize with people that you not hard. It

496
00:31:16,910 –> 00:31:20,750
has become increasingly difficult, let me frame it that way, to empathize with people

497
00:31:20,750 –> 00:31:24,430
who are our next door neighbors because we don’t see them as we don’t see

498
00:31:24,430 –> 00:31:27,790
them as people. So if your if your next door neighbor is voting for somebody

499
00:31:27,790 –> 00:31:30,670
and you don’t understand why they’re doing that and you don’t have any empathy for

500
00:31:30,670 –> 00:31:34,285
them, then, of course, the political avatar is gonna be

501
00:31:34,285 –> 00:31:38,045
bringing about, to Kristen’s point, the end of the world or

502
00:31:38,045 –> 00:31:41,804
bringing about utopia now. Like, either one. Either apocalypse or

503
00:31:41,804 –> 00:31:44,684
utopia. It’s never any I tell them I want this all touch. It’s never in

504
00:31:44,684 –> 00:31:46,225
between. We can’t hit the middle.

505
00:31:50,580 –> 00:31:54,020
We can’t hit the middle. We they’re gonna go utopia or we’re gonna have an

506
00:31:54,020 –> 00:31:55,960
apocalypse. I guess, it’s either.

507
00:31:58,180 –> 00:32:01,645
And I increasingly am not here for any of that. I

508
00:32:01,645 –> 00:32:04,544
increasingly need us to hit the middle. Just hit the middle.

509
00:32:05,245 –> 00:32:08,865
Well, it’s it trying to keep this

510
00:32:09,005 –> 00:32:12,460
vague enough and not get Yeah. Yeah. What, personal or start

511
00:32:12,460 –> 00:32:15,980
condemning people. Keep it vague. I’ve already let let all the

512
00:32:15,980 –> 00:32:19,820
condemnation come out of my mouth. You keep it vague. Right? No.

513
00:32:19,820 –> 00:32:23,420
I just I think that’s that’s kinda what it consistently comes back to

514
00:32:23,420 –> 00:32:27,025
and Yeah. Is is letting people be

515
00:32:27,025 –> 00:32:30,784
human. But see them as humans before you see them as whatever they

516
00:32:30,784 –> 00:32:34,625
voted whoever they voted for or whatever their what is it?

517
00:32:34,625 –> 00:32:38,465
Whatever their party designation is. Like, oh my gosh. Even just saying that reminds

518
00:32:38,465 –> 00:32:41,740
me of, like, v for vendetta. Like, like, hey.

519
00:32:42,279 –> 00:32:46,059
Like, both sides are, like, this close to becoming

520
00:32:46,120 –> 00:32:49,820
the thing that they’re accusing the other side of becoming. And it’s like,

521
00:32:50,200 –> 00:32:53,419
guys, we’re all we’re all in this together.

522
00:32:56,765 –> 00:32:57,665
Thank you, Zephyr.

523
00:33:01,245 –> 00:33:05,025
I am just a witness. We got one

524
00:33:05,165 –> 00:33:08,945
we got one planet. We need to make it last as long as we can.

525
00:33:10,000 –> 00:33:13,840
We’re all humans. Like, that’s if you zoom out

526
00:33:13,840 –> 00:33:17,299
enough if you if you zoom out enough say, I think

527
00:33:18,480 –> 00:33:21,460
Go ahead. The connection is a little wonky again.

528
00:33:23,795 –> 00:33:27,395
No. No. No. No. No. No. You’re no. You’re okay. No. You’re alright. This time,

529
00:33:27,395 –> 00:33:30,035
it’s not on this time, it’s not on my end. My my my Oh. Or

530
00:33:30,035 –> 00:33:33,875
your Is it mine? Tip top. No. You might be

531
00:33:33,875 –> 00:33:37,235
yours. It might be mine. No. I

532
00:33:37,235 –> 00:33:41,080
think that after twenty five years, I think that the American public

533
00:33:41,080 –> 00:33:44,920
has only about twenty five years of, like, solid, like, ability to stand in

534
00:33:44,920 –> 00:33:47,560
a corner like two four year olds and hit each other in the face. We’ve

535
00:33:47,560 –> 00:33:50,200
only got about twenty five years of that in us. And then we need a

536
00:33:50,200 –> 00:33:52,684
break. And I think I do. I think we are at the end of the

537
00:33:52,764 –> 00:33:56,524
and this is one of the assertions that I’m making on this podcast. I think

538
00:33:56,524 –> 00:33:59,825
we are. We’re at the end of the fourth turning. We’re at the end of

539
00:34:00,924 –> 00:34:04,590
we’re exhausted. We’ve we’ve beaten each other into submission. We reached

540
00:34:04,590 –> 00:34:07,730
sort of the high watermark of all this nonsense in 2020.

541
00:34:08,909 –> 00:34:12,590
Between between March of twenty twenty and January of twenty twenty one, we did we

542
00:34:12,590 –> 00:34:15,409
reached the high watermark. If anything was gonna happen that was gonna

543
00:34:16,350 –> 00:34:20,005
happen, it would have would have happened in that period. And it didn’t, for a

544
00:34:20,005 –> 00:34:23,764
whole variety of reasons that I don’t need to go into today, but it

545
00:34:23,764 –> 00:34:27,205
didn’t happen. And now we’re all exhausted. We’re like drunks that,

546
00:34:27,205 –> 00:34:30,165
like, are now waking up, and they’re the hangover is kicking in, and we’re like,

547
00:34:30,165 –> 00:34:32,965
oh, dear god. We’re, like, looking around going, oh my god. I do? This place

548
00:34:32,965 –> 00:34:36,700
up. What did I do? I gotta clean this place up. That was a hell

549
00:34:36,700 –> 00:34:40,320
of a party. It was a real rager.

550
00:34:43,020 –> 00:34:46,860
Yeah. Yeah. And we can’t go down the street to, like, go

551
00:34:46,860 –> 00:34:50,705
to another party. There’s no way downstairs to go. They’re too embarrassed. Too embarrassed.

552
00:34:50,765 –> 00:34:53,965
Like, this is we’re having we’re getting ready to have the collective. I think over

553
00:34:53,965 –> 00:34:57,005
the next five years, we’re getting ready to have the collective, we’re never gonna drink

554
00:34:57,005 –> 00:35:00,765
again moment. Right. And I love that moment after a terrible

555
00:35:00,765 –> 00:35:03,825
hangover. You’re like, oh my god. This is terrible. I’m never gonna drink again.

556
00:35:05,000 –> 00:35:08,839
Never. And never is, like, you know, till next Sunday or next Friday or

557
00:35:08,839 –> 00:35:12,680
whenever. But, but in the terms of a nation state, it that

558
00:35:12,680 –> 00:35:15,720
that could maybe be, that could maybe be another twenty five year long gap. So

559
00:35:15,720 –> 00:35:18,815
it will take twenty five years off from beating each other in the face. And

560
00:35:18,815 –> 00:35:21,935
by that point, I’ll be dead, and it won’t matter. So no one will remember

561
00:35:21,935 –> 00:35:22,835
any of this anyway.

562
00:35:25,535 –> 00:35:29,375
Okay. I like the idea that you said there about writing to your

563
00:35:29,375 –> 00:35:32,035
target market and humanizing people. I love that.

564
00:35:33,680 –> 00:35:37,520
In particular, because we’re going to pick up with the chapter. I love the

565
00:35:37,520 –> 00:35:41,220
title of this chapter as we turn back to the book. The Corsican

566
00:35:41,680 –> 00:35:42,180
ogre.

567
00:35:46,964 –> 00:35:50,505
I love the title of that chapter. Oh my gosh.

568
00:35:50,805 –> 00:35:54,164
Because I wanna talk about I wanna talk about a person

569
00:35:54,164 –> 00:35:58,005
who who we failed to humanize. We

570
00:35:58,005 –> 00:36:01,820
in the West failed to humanize, up until about the last

571
00:36:01,820 –> 00:36:05,420
eighty years because there was another boogeyman that then showed up during that

572
00:36:05,420 –> 00:36:08,480
recent unfortunate events in, in Europe.

573
00:36:10,060 –> 00:36:13,020
And, of course, the death of a hundred million people in the twentieth century sort

574
00:36:13,020 –> 00:36:16,515
of dwarfed anything that this guy did. So, so he was

575
00:36:16,515 –> 00:36:20,194
replaced by a bigger bogeyman, a guy named Which made it

576
00:36:20,194 –> 00:36:23,875
okay to humanize Bonaparte. Right. Made it okay to

577
00:36:23,875 –> 00:36:27,155
humanize him. Yeah. It’s fine. Yeah. It’s fine. He’s just he’s a short dude who,

578
00:36:27,155 –> 00:36:29,474
like, has his hands in his pockets all the time. Right? He’s a short dude,

579
00:36:29,474 –> 00:36:31,430
funny dude in a painting. Right?

580
00:36:33,650 –> 00:36:37,089
What possible problems could he have started? That that just kind

581
00:36:37,089 –> 00:36:40,849
of, that just hit me kinda with a a new

582
00:36:40,849 –> 00:36:44,664
thought. We’re like, what has to happen next that will

583
00:36:44,664 –> 00:36:48,285
let humanity collectively go? We can humanize Hitler now.

584
00:36:50,025 –> 00:36:53,865
Oh. I don’t even I don’t even I don’t are we still gonna be

585
00:36:53,865 –> 00:36:57,484
here? Is that will we even survive that event?

586
00:36:57,849 –> 00:37:01,609
So I don’t I don’t think it will be so

587
00:37:01,609 –> 00:37:05,369
I’m in my mid forties. Right? I’m in the youngest

588
00:37:05,369 –> 00:37:09,130
and of the oldest generation that won’t allow that to happen. The

589
00:37:09,130 –> 00:37:12,935
youngest and the oldest generation. That won’t let

590
00:37:12,935 –> 00:37:16,455
that happen. Yeah. Yeah. That won’t allow that to happen. We’re all still kicking around

591
00:37:16,455 –> 00:37:20,135
here. We’re all still like, no. My grandfather, my grandmother, my Right.

592
00:37:20,135 –> 00:37:23,735
We’re we’re still those. We still have those people. Mhmm. I have I have

593
00:37:23,735 –> 00:37:27,415
19 year olds. I have a 19 year old. I have I have a 14

594
00:37:27,415 –> 00:37:31,250
year old, soon to be 15, and I have an eight year old. I look

595
00:37:31,250 –> 00:37:34,870
at my eight year old, and I go,

596
00:37:36,610 –> 00:37:40,385
Not him specifically, but, like, anybody that’s in that cohort, they

597
00:37:40,385 –> 00:37:44,224
have zero connection emotionally to the twentieth century at

598
00:37:44,224 –> 00:37:47,585
any kind of level. And when I’m

599
00:37:47,585 –> 00:37:51,425
gone, that’s the last connection to, as the Gen Z kids say

600
00:37:51,425 –> 00:37:55,025
these days, the nineteen hundreds. Yeah. That’s your last connection to the nineteen

601
00:37:55,025 –> 00:37:58,680
hundreds. Okay.

602
00:37:58,680 –> 00:38:01,980
That’s fine. That’s fine. And I this this is that’s fine.

603
00:38:02,200 –> 00:38:05,820
Whatever. Whatever. Get out of my face. Get get away from me.

604
00:38:08,040 –> 00:38:11,845
Never mind that it was the end of the 1900. So there’s a whole

605
00:38:11,845 –> 00:38:15,525
century there. I might as well

606
00:38:15,525 –> 00:38:17,065
be a hundred years old.

607
00:38:19,685 –> 00:38:22,085
I just tell people when they lay that on me. I just tell people when

608
00:38:22,085 –> 00:38:25,460
they lay that on me. Like, I ran across somebody the other day. She’s like,

609
00:38:25,460 –> 00:38:28,420
oh, I was born in 02/2005. And I went

610
00:38:30,900 –> 00:38:34,520
Oh, every time somebody asks me what my daughter’s birthday is, I’m just like,

611
00:38:34,660 –> 00:38:36,839
mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.

612
00:38:44,875 –> 00:38:48,415
Exactly. And so to answer your question,

613
00:38:49,115 –> 00:38:52,715
I think I think it’s going to be one of those things. You’re already you’ve

614
00:38:52,715 –> 00:38:56,250
already sort of seen this with, like, communism and Stalin. Like,

615
00:38:56,250 –> 00:39:00,010
nobody ever references Stalin as, like, a really bad guy even though

616
00:39:00,010 –> 00:39:03,850
Stalin killed a hell of a lot more people than Hitler. Let’s just

617
00:39:03,850 –> 00:39:07,690
be factual about that. Just the numbers alone. Right? Right. Or

618
00:39:07,690 –> 00:39:11,345
Mao or Pol Pot. Like, I was talking with somebody the other

619
00:39:11,805 –> 00:39:14,925
day, like, who went to Vietnam and Cambodia, and he’s like, oh, yeah. You can

620
00:39:14,925 –> 00:39:18,145
still see evidence of Pol Pot’s massacres in Cambodia

621
00:39:19,165 –> 00:39:22,760
still walking around today. And the

622
00:39:22,760 –> 00:39:26,300
fact is if you don’t have an emotional connection to that history these days,

623
00:39:26,600 –> 00:39:30,440
you’re not going to clear it with

624
00:39:30,440 –> 00:39:34,119
respect, I guess, is maybe the term I’m looking for, or care.

625
00:39:34,119 –> 00:39:37,535
Care is probably better. And then after that that.

626
00:39:37,755 –> 00:39:41,115
Yeah. Yeah. And then after that, like, just the door and the floor just opens

627
00:39:41,115 –> 00:39:44,875
up, and now you’re, like, you’re you’re on your way to that. Is

628
00:39:44,875 –> 00:39:48,555
how humanity repeats itself. Correct. Yeah. You’re on your way down to some abyss down

629
00:39:48,555 –> 00:39:51,060
there. Except the except the next time, they’ll have AI. So they’ll be able to

630
00:39:51,060 –> 00:39:54,900
kill people at a lot a lot better, a lot higher level with more

631
00:39:55,060 –> 00:39:58,660
with greater justification, and it’ll be probably be harder to

632
00:39:58,660 –> 00:40:02,280
stop. And, like, again, I look at my eight year old, and I’m like,

633
00:40:02,580 –> 00:40:05,800
you guys you guys can’t screw it up,

634
00:40:06,965 –> 00:40:10,025
because that’s maybe where it starts.

635
00:40:10,485 –> 00:40:14,185
So on that down, no.

636
00:40:14,645 –> 00:40:17,940
Yep. I bet. I do.

637
00:40:23,060 –> 00:40:25,960
Back to chapter the Corsican ogre.

638
00:40:27,140 –> 00:40:30,915
I’m gonna read a few pages in here, just to sort of

639
00:40:30,915 –> 00:40:33,255
get the flavor of the fear

640
00:40:35,315 –> 00:40:39,075
of Napoleon. Louis the eighteenth, on seeing this

641
00:40:39,075 –> 00:40:42,755
ravaged face, thrust away the table before which he was sitting. So,

642
00:40:45,519 –> 00:40:49,299
Villefort has arrived. He came on the horses two horses.

643
00:40:49,440 –> 00:40:52,819
He’s gonna deliver a message to, to the king.

644
00:40:54,240 –> 00:40:57,905
The the the baron is is

645
00:40:58,525 –> 00:41:02,205
hanging out, and it’s a it’s a whole

646
00:41:02,205 –> 00:41:05,885
thing. So, yeah, so Louis the

647
00:41:05,885 –> 00:41:09,405
Louis the eighteenth, I’m seeing this ravaged face thrust away the table before which he

648
00:41:09,405 –> 00:41:12,465
was sitting. What is wrong with you, Baron? He cried. You seem thunderstruck.

649
00:41:13,100 –> 00:41:16,540
Do your troubled appearance and hesitant manner have anything to do with what

650
00:41:16,540 –> 00:41:20,300
Monsieur de Blancos was saying and what Monsieur de Villegas has just confirmed to

651
00:41:20,300 –> 00:41:23,740
me? Meanwhile, Monsieur de Blancos had made

652
00:41:23,900 –> 00:41:27,715
Blancos had made an urgent movement towards the baron, but the courtier’s terror got the

653
00:41:27,715 –> 00:41:31,475
better of the statesman pride. In such circumstances, it was preferable for him to

654
00:41:31,475 –> 00:41:35,235
be humiliated by the prefect of police than to humiliate him

655
00:41:35,235 –> 00:41:38,915
in view of what was at stake. The sire, the baron stammered. Come come,

656
00:41:38,915 –> 00:41:42,640
said Louis the eighteenth. At this, the minister of police gave way to an

657
00:41:42,640 –> 00:41:46,400
onrush of despair and threw himself at the king’s feet. Louis the eighteenth stepped

658
00:41:46,400 –> 00:41:50,160
back, raising his eyebrows. Won’t you say something? He asked. Oh, sire.

659
00:41:50,160 –> 00:41:53,300
What a terrible fortune. What will become of me? I shall never recover from it.

660
00:41:53,360 –> 00:41:56,020
Bonjour, Louis the eighteenth said. I order you to speak.

661
00:41:57,135 –> 00:42:00,895
Sire, the usurper left Elba on February

662
00:42:00,895 –> 00:42:04,675
and landed on March. Where? The king asked urgently.

663
00:42:04,895 –> 00:42:08,415
In France, sire, in a little port on the Gulf Of Leon near

664
00:42:08,415 –> 00:42:12,130
Antibodies. You circulated in France near Antibodies

665
00:42:12,190 –> 00:42:15,789
on the Gulf Of Juan, near Hundley from Paris on March 1, and it is

666
00:42:15,789 –> 00:42:19,390
only today, March, that you inform me of it? Bon bonjour. What you are telling

667
00:42:19,390 –> 00:42:22,609
me is impossible. Either you have been misinformed or you are mad.

668
00:42:23,145 –> 00:42:26,665
Alas, siren, it’s only too true. Louis the

669
00:42:26,665 –> 00:42:30,425
eighteenth made a gesture of inexpressible anger and alarm, leaping to his feet as

670
00:42:30,425 –> 00:42:34,105
though a sudden blow had struck him simultaneously in the heart and across the face.

671
00:42:34,105 –> 00:42:37,705
In France, he cried, the usurper in France, but was no one watching the

672
00:42:37,705 –> 00:42:41,480
man? Who knows? Perhaps you were in league with him. Sigh,

673
00:42:41,480 –> 00:42:45,160
no. Duke de Blacas cried out. A man like Mongeau Dandre could

674
00:42:45,160 –> 00:42:49,000
never be accused of treason. We were all blind, sire, and the minister of police

675
00:42:49,000 –> 00:42:51,340
was as blind as the rest of us, nothing more.

676
00:42:52,485 –> 00:42:56,165
But, Vilfor said, then he stopped dead in his tracks. I beg your

677
00:42:56,165 –> 00:42:59,605
forgiveness, sire, he said with a bow. My ardor carried me away. I beg your

678
00:42:59,605 –> 00:43:03,285
majesty to forgive me. Speak, Speak without fear. You

679
00:43:03,285 –> 00:43:06,985
alone warned us of the disease. Help us to find the cure.

680
00:43:07,960 –> 00:43:11,560
Sire, Vilfred said, the usurper is hated in the South. It appears to me that

681
00:43:11,560 –> 00:43:15,340
if he risks his chances there, we can easily rouse Provence and Languedoc against

682
00:43:15,480 –> 00:43:19,160
him. No doubt we can, said the minister, but he is advancing through Gap

683
00:43:19,160 –> 00:43:22,994
and Cicerone. Advancing, advancing, said Louis the eighteenth. Is he marching

684
00:43:22,994 –> 00:43:26,755
on Paris then? Minister of police said nothing, but his silence

685
00:43:26,755 –> 00:43:30,595
was as eloquent as a confession. What about the Dauphine?

686
00:43:30,595 –> 00:43:34,215
The king asked Villefort. Do you think we could raise resistance there as in Provence?

687
00:43:35,410 –> 00:43:39,010
Sire, I regret to inform your majesty of an impalatable truth. Feeling of

688
00:43:39,010 –> 00:43:42,610
the is not nearly as favorable to us as it is in Provence at La

689
00:43:42,610 –> 00:43:46,290
Gaudor, the mountain dwellers of Bonapartes, sire. So his

690
00:43:46,290 –> 00:43:49,635
intelligence is good, Louis the eighteenth muttered. How many men does he have with him?

691
00:43:49,715 –> 00:43:52,435
I do not know, sire, said the minister of police. How do you mean you

692
00:43:52,435 –> 00:43:56,275
don’t know? Did you forget to find out that detail? It is a trivial matter,

693
00:43:56,275 –> 00:44:00,035
of course, he added with disdainful smile. I was unable to learn it,

694
00:44:00,035 –> 00:44:03,235
sire. The dispatch contained only the news of the landing and the route taken by

695
00:44:03,235 –> 00:44:06,290
the usurper. And how did you come by this dispatch?

696
00:44:07,070 –> 00:44:10,830
The minister hung his head and blushed brightly. By the telegraph sire,

697
00:44:10,830 –> 00:44:14,670
he stammered. Louis the eighteenth stepped forward across his arms

698
00:44:14,670 –> 00:44:18,345
as Napoleon would have done. By the way, pause. I love that little touch

699
00:44:18,345 –> 00:44:22,185
there that he puts in there. I love that. That’s that’s a good literary touch

700
00:44:22,185 –> 00:44:25,945
there. Back to the book. You mean, he said, going pale

701
00:44:25,945 –> 00:44:29,545
with rage that seven armies overthrew that man. A divine miracle

702
00:44:29,545 –> 00:44:33,370
replaced me on the throne of my fathers after twenty five years of exile. And

703
00:44:33,370 –> 00:44:37,210
during those twenty five years, I studied, sounded out, and analyzed the men

704
00:44:37,210 –> 00:44:40,410
and the affairs of this country of France that was promised to me only to

705
00:44:40,410 –> 00:44:43,775
attain the object of all my desires and for a force that I held in

706
00:44:43,775 –> 00:44:46,835
the palm of my hand to explode and destroy me?

707
00:44:48,015 –> 00:44:51,775
It is fate, sire, the minister muttered, realizing there’s such a weight.

708
00:44:51,775 –> 00:44:55,599
The light in the scales of destiny was enough to crush a man. So it

709
00:44:55,599 –> 00:44:59,040
is true what our enemies say about us? Nothing learned, nothing

710
00:44:59,040 –> 00:45:02,800
forgotten? If I had been betrayed as

711
00:45:02,800 –> 00:45:06,560
he was, then that might after all be some consolation, but to be surrounded

712
00:45:06,560 –> 00:45:09,765
by people whom I have raised to high office who should consider my safety more

713
00:45:09,765 –> 00:45:13,365
precious than their own because their interests depend on me, people who were nothing

714
00:45:13,365 –> 00:45:16,905
before me and will be nothing after, and to perish miserably through inefficiency

715
00:45:17,045 –> 00:45:20,724
and ineptitude. Oh, yes, You are right indeed. That

716
00:45:20,724 –> 00:45:24,510
is fate. The minister was crushed beneath

717
00:45:24,510 –> 00:45:28,110
the weight of this terrifying indictment. Wiped a

718
00:45:28,110 –> 00:45:31,950
brow damp with sweat and Vilfor, smiled to himself

719
00:45:31,950 –> 00:45:35,734
because he felt his own importance swelling To fall,

720
00:45:35,875 –> 00:45:39,555
Louis eighteenth continued, having immediately realized the depth of the

721
00:45:39,555 –> 00:45:43,234
gulf above which the monarchy was tottering. To fall and to learn of one’s falls

722
00:45:43,234 –> 00:45:47,075
with the telegraph. Oh, I should rather mount the scaffold like my brother, Louis

723
00:45:47,075 –> 00:45:50,350
the sixteenth, than to descend the steps of the two reason this way driven out

724
00:45:50,350 –> 00:45:53,950
by ridicule. Bonjour. You do not know what ridicule means in France, yet if

725
00:45:53,950 –> 00:45:57,630
anyone ought to know, sire, the minister humbled sire, for pity’s

726
00:45:57,630 –> 00:46:01,070
sake, the king turned to the young man who was standing motionless at the back

727
00:46:01,070 –> 00:46:04,214
of the room following the progress of this conversation on which hung the fate of

728
00:46:04,214 –> 00:46:07,835
the kingdom. Come here, Come.

729
00:46:07,895 –> 00:46:11,675
Tell this gentleman that it was possible, to have foreknowledge of everything

730
00:46:11,734 –> 00:46:15,290
despite his ignorance of it. Sire,

731
00:46:15,430 –> 00:46:19,030
it is materially impossible to guess at plans which that man had

732
00:46:19,030 –> 00:46:22,330
hidden from everybody. Materially impossible?

733
00:46:22,950 –> 00:46:26,630
Those are grand words, Monsieur. Unfortunately, grand words are like

734
00:46:26,630 –> 00:46:30,224
grand gentlemen. I have taken the measure of both. Material

735
00:46:30,925 –> 00:46:34,444
impossible. For a minister who has officials, his offices, his

736
00:46:34,444 –> 00:46:38,045
agents, his informants, and CHF1,500,000 of secret

737
00:46:38,045 –> 00:46:41,724
funds to know what is happening 60 leagues off the coast of France? Come

738
00:46:41,724 –> 00:46:45,130
come. Here is this gentleman who had none of the resources at his

739
00:46:45,130 –> 00:46:48,890
disposal. This gentleman, a simple magistrate who knew more than you did with all your

740
00:46:48,890 –> 00:46:52,650
police force and who would have saved my crown if, like

741
00:46:52,650 –> 00:46:56,270
you, he had the right to operate

742
00:46:57,315 –> 00:46:58,055
the telegraph.

743
00:47:01,955 –> 00:47:05,734
Ding. I freaking love that whole

744
00:47:05,875 –> 00:47:09,474
entire exchange. It is it

745
00:47:09,474 –> 00:47:10,295
is excellent,

746
00:47:13,070 –> 00:47:16,590
And it lays out in real palpable ways for

747
00:47:16,590 –> 00:47:19,250
us the level

748
00:47:21,150 –> 00:47:24,930
of apprehension and fear

749
00:47:25,950 –> 00:47:29,675
and, I mean, just, yeah, outright

750
00:47:29,815 –> 00:47:33,115
fear that the elites had in France

751
00:47:34,375 –> 00:47:36,555
of what this man Napoleon

752
00:47:37,735 –> 00:47:41,175
might do upon his

753
00:47:41,175 –> 00:47:44,960
return. When

754
00:47:44,960 –> 00:47:48,480
I read this, I immediately thought of the

755
00:47:48,480 –> 00:47:52,180
scene because I am a I’m a cinematic guy in my head.

756
00:47:52,880 –> 00:47:56,485
I thought of the scene in The Wire when Omar and his

757
00:47:56,485 –> 00:47:59,605
trench coat and if it’s a great show, you’ve never watched it, it doesn’t matter.

758
00:47:59,605 –> 00:48:03,045
Go go check it out on HBO twenty years ago when

759
00:48:03,045 –> 00:48:05,865
Omar is walking down the drug alleys in Baltimore,

760
00:48:06,645 –> 00:48:10,259
and all of the drug dealers see him coming. We’re dealing on the

761
00:48:10,259 –> 00:48:13,880
corners, and they all scream out from windows, doorways,

762
00:48:14,579 –> 00:48:18,039
and they scatter like rats while they’re screaming. They scream, Omar’s coming.

763
00:48:18,420 –> 00:48:22,185
Omar’s coming. And he’s just walking down the street in his trench coat with his

764
00:48:22,185 –> 00:48:25,785
shotgun singing, whistling farmer in the

765
00:48:25,785 –> 00:48:27,405
Dell, which is, like, great.

766
00:48:31,465 –> 00:48:35,039
And it’s almost exactly that. Napoleon’s

767
00:48:35,180 –> 00:48:38,700
coming. Everybody better get up and get moving. Get up off the

768
00:48:38,700 –> 00:48:41,839
step. Get up off the stoop. You better go hide.

769
00:48:44,460 –> 00:48:48,305
That bug is coming. To Chris’

770
00:48:48,305 –> 00:48:51,905
point earlier before we read that section, it has been over two

771
00:48:51,905 –> 00:48:55,744
hundred years, since Napoleon was

772
00:48:55,744 –> 00:48:59,585
astride the earth as a great man. And we

773
00:48:59,585 –> 00:49:03,150
do underestimate how much of a boogeyman he was for the

774
00:49:03,150 –> 00:49:06,829
the the aristocracy and the elites of Europe and how much the

775
00:49:06,829 –> 00:49:10,530
common people loved him. Napoleon

776
00:49:10,589 –> 00:49:14,295
ushered in because of his actions and his behavior and the way that he

777
00:49:14,775 –> 00:49:18,295
held himself in France and the way that he was taught not taught, but the

778
00:49:18,295 –> 00:49:21,895
way he was thought about, he held himself up and was

779
00:49:21,895 –> 00:49:25,335
turned into, the first avatar, this

780
00:49:25,335 –> 00:49:29,100
idea, at least in the modern West, of the

781
00:49:29,100 –> 00:49:31,440
great man of history theory.

782
00:49:33,020 –> 00:49:36,700
Thomas Carlyle laid out this theory, and I’m going to read this quote directly. It

783
00:49:36,700 –> 00:49:40,460
came from my research around this. Universal history, the

784
00:49:40,460 –> 00:49:43,695
history of what man has accomplished in this world is at the bottom of the

785
00:49:43,695 –> 00:49:47,535
history of the great men who have worked here. They were leaders

786
00:49:47,535 –> 00:49:51,295
of men, these great ones, the modelers, patterns, and in a wide sense,

787
00:49:51,295 –> 00:49:55,135
creators of whatsoever the general mass of men could drive to do or

788
00:49:55,135 –> 00:49:58,900
attain. All things that we see standing accomplished in the

789
00:49:58,900 –> 00:50:02,740
world are properly the outer material result, the practical realization and

790
00:50:02,740 –> 00:50:06,580
embodiment of thoughts that dwell in the great men sent into

791
00:50:06,580 –> 00:50:10,280
the world. The soul of the world, whole world’s history,

792
00:50:10,535 –> 00:50:14,295
it may justly be considered were the history of

793
00:50:14,295 –> 00:50:14,795
these.

794
00:50:18,215 –> 00:50:21,975
It is only very recently that we have abandoned in the West the

795
00:50:21,975 –> 00:50:25,820
theory of the great man of history. I think that

796
00:50:25,820 –> 00:50:29,280
was one of the things that died in the horror,

797
00:50:30,060 –> 00:50:33,900
the bombed out horror of World War two. Because if you

798
00:50:33,900 –> 00:50:37,500
have great men, they can destroy. And, of course, if they can

799
00:50:37,500 –> 00:50:40,605
destroy with great weapons, they could destroy much more effectively.

800
00:50:44,025 –> 00:50:47,785
But all things that are old become new again. And I do

801
00:50:47,785 –> 00:50:51,145
think whether we like it or not, whether we think we’re

802
00:50:51,145 –> 00:50:54,870
sophisticated or not, and whether our our

803
00:50:55,330 –> 00:50:59,170
class and intellectual betters think they’re ready

804
00:50:59,170 –> 00:51:02,150
or not, I do believe the great man of history,

805
00:51:03,970 –> 00:51:07,110
theory is astride the West

806
00:51:08,165 –> 00:51:11,845
yet again, much to

807
00:51:11,845 –> 00:51:14,744
the elites dismay.

808
00:51:21,205 –> 00:51:24,920
So the question I have is, are we

809
00:51:24,920 –> 00:51:28,700
in America ready for the great men and women

810
00:51:30,359 –> 00:51:34,119
of the Earth, as Carlisle might say, to move

811
00:51:34,119 –> 00:51:35,420
history yet again?

812
00:51:46,105 –> 00:51:49,865
Are you ever ready? Are you ever ready for something like that? Like,

813
00:51:49,865 –> 00:51:53,660
just it just I feel like like I think you I think

814
00:51:53,660 –> 00:51:57,140
you get ready ecumenically and emotionally. It’s like

815
00:51:57,339 –> 00:52:00,319
I mean, was anybody ready for Trump?

816
00:52:01,099 –> 00:52:04,059
No. No one was ready for that. No one’s ready. And, actually, I will tell

817
00:52:04,059 –> 00:52:06,795
you I’ll tell you. Love him, hate him. Whatever he’s doing. Love him, hate him.

818
00:52:06,875 –> 00:52:09,135
Ready for that? Like, was anybody

819
00:52:10,635 –> 00:52:14,395
Win that? When when I wasn’t ready for him to actually win. I

820
00:52:14,395 –> 00:52:16,335
was in Germany, and they were like,

821
00:52:17,940 –> 00:52:21,619
When when when the bullet missed taking his

822
00:52:21,619 –> 00:52:23,960
brains out Oh my gosh. Pennsylvania,

823
00:52:25,540 –> 00:52:29,060
I my wife I was working in the yard, and my wife was like, oh,

824
00:52:29,060 –> 00:52:32,685
you gotta come see this. And she showed me the video, and I literally

825
00:52:33,065 –> 00:52:36,665
I’ve never had this experience happen in well, no. Not never. There’s only one other

826
00:52:36,665 –> 00:52:39,484
time I had this experience happen in my life. That was September 11.

827
00:52:40,905 –> 00:52:44,470
And I actually, like, felt the earth move. I was like, oh, oh, this is

828
00:52:44,470 –> 00:52:48,170
a thing. Now we’re into something else now. Like,

829
00:52:48,630 –> 00:52:51,930
people are calling it a vibe shift. I I don’t wanna be as as

830
00:52:53,190 –> 00:52:56,710
I don’t wanna be as flip with it as that. It it’s more than

831
00:52:56,710 –> 00:53:00,555
that. It’s you don’t have a guy like that

832
00:53:00,555 –> 00:53:04,315
damn near get his head blown off and something not happen afterward. You

833
00:53:04,315 –> 00:53:07,915
just don’t have it. There’s just there’s just rules to the game. This isn’t this

834
00:53:07,915 –> 00:53:11,275
isn’t Vietnam. There are rules. Like, there’s rules to this

835
00:53:11,275 –> 00:53:14,680
game. Like, and and,

836
00:53:14,680 –> 00:53:18,280
apparently, I guess, we’re on the

837
00:53:18,280 –> 00:53:21,340
other side of Mark Andreessen, the investor.

838
00:53:22,120 –> 00:53:25,960
He was interviewed on Joe Rogan afterward about a month or two after this

839
00:53:25,960 –> 00:53:29,505
happened, and he said, we’re in another timeline now. The timeline forked.

840
00:53:30,125 –> 00:53:33,805
Like, there’s a timeline where, like, Donald Trump got shot, and the people living there,

841
00:53:33,805 –> 00:53:37,565
they’re not having a good time. And we’re in a

842
00:53:37,565 –> 00:53:41,325
timeline where that didn’t happen. And he’s like, thank god the timeline he didn’t say

843
00:53:41,325 –> 00:53:45,140
god, but it’s a good thing the timeline forked. Because if it hadn’t,

844
00:53:45,140 –> 00:53:48,440
we’d be we’d be in something else. So are we ready?

845
00:53:51,700 –> 00:53:55,465
No. I don’t I don’t I I think I think we

846
00:53:56,905 –> 00:54:00,505
no. I don’t think we’re ready, but I think it’s easier for people who, like,

847
00:54:00,505 –> 00:54:04,185
have a deep belief in faith or deep spirituality to kind of accept that

848
00:54:04,185 –> 00:54:07,224
this is, like, something that’s going to happen eventually. But I think for people who

849
00:54:07,224 –> 00:54:11,030
are just floating around with no anchor, no. They’re not ready. Oh, yeah. They’re they’re

850
00:54:11,030 –> 00:54:12,490
surprised. They’re surprised.

851
00:54:15,350 –> 00:54:19,030
Well and I you know, as

852
00:54:19,030 –> 00:54:22,630
someone who, you know, was raised, like, with a pretty strong

853
00:54:22,630 –> 00:54:25,975
faith and have always been pretty pretty deeply spiritual,

854
00:54:26,755 –> 00:54:30,515
just kind of choosing that over and over. But, in

855
00:54:30,515 –> 00:54:34,115
in various paths, it’s it is.

856
00:54:34,115 –> 00:54:37,555
Having that anchor is very interesting. I think those are the people. The people who

857
00:54:37,555 –> 00:54:41,370
don’t have the anchor are the ones that are more prone, typically.

858
00:54:42,710 –> 00:54:46,470
I can think of some exceptions already, but typically are

859
00:54:46,470 –> 00:54:49,990
the ones who are like, the world’s gonna end, or this guy is gonna be

860
00:54:49,990 –> 00:54:53,595
our savior, and be like, neither. Neither of those things are

861
00:54:53,595 –> 00:54:57,035
true. Like, it just but but, you

862
00:54:57,035 –> 00:54:59,455
know, great men and women

863
00:55:00,875 –> 00:55:03,055
yeah. It’s interesting. I almost feel like

864
00:55:05,140 –> 00:55:08,760
we’re not allowed. And kinda to your point, what you said,

865
00:55:09,540 –> 00:55:13,000
earlier about, the favor of the idea that impersonal

866
00:55:14,980 –> 00:55:17,880
mysterious forces that are not,

867
00:55:18,765 –> 00:55:21,505
like, in our control necessarily,

868
00:55:22,605 –> 00:55:26,365
which, yeah, that is a very interesting perspective. I was almost yeah. So

869
00:55:26,365 –> 00:55:29,424
it feels like almost like we’re not allowed to even say

870
00:55:29,964 –> 00:55:33,184
that great men and women can change anything,

871
00:55:33,970 –> 00:55:37,670
which is an interesting thing to hear come out of my mouth considering

872
00:55:37,810 –> 00:55:40,690
that I feel like those very same people would be like, no. Of course, we

873
00:55:40,690 –> 00:55:42,870
have free will and can change

874
00:55:44,130 –> 00:55:47,810
things. They’re the same people that are like, nothing will

875
00:55:47,810 –> 00:55:51,365
ever change. Everything is awful and always will be. I’m just like,

876
00:55:51,365 –> 00:55:54,665
well, hold on. Oh, yeah. Decide.

877
00:55:56,085 –> 00:55:59,765
Decide. You cannot have both. This I don’t think these things

878
00:56:01,685 –> 00:56:05,170
Well, I think I think people have bought the lie that human

879
00:56:05,170 –> 00:56:08,930
beings are so you’re seeing a lot of this in I already mentioned artificial intelligence

880
00:56:08,930 –> 00:56:12,550
once, and I’m gonna mention it again. You’re seeing this in the conversations around AI.

881
00:56:13,170 –> 00:56:16,770
So we are doing exactly what I thought we would do. We

882
00:56:16,770 –> 00:56:20,415
are we are anthropomorphizing what is in

883
00:56:20,415 –> 00:56:24,095
essence a hopped up computer program on steroids. And, yes, I am

884
00:56:24,095 –> 00:56:27,235
minimizing it on purpose for what I’m about to say

885
00:56:28,575 –> 00:56:32,095
because because we have bought into

886
00:56:32,095 –> 00:56:35,569
the lie as a culture ever since Alan Turing

887
00:56:35,950 –> 00:56:39,789
proposed the Turing test. We’ve bought into the why

888
00:56:39,789 –> 00:56:43,549
as a western culture in general and an American culture

889
00:56:43,549 –> 00:56:47,309
in deeply particular. I don’t think the Europeans buy into it as much as we

890
00:56:47,309 –> 00:56:50,685
do, and the Japanese are all the way the hell over on the other end.

891
00:56:51,305 –> 00:56:55,145
So we’re weirdly in the middle on this. But I think

892
00:56:55,145 –> 00:56:58,745
in America, in the West, we

893
00:56:58,745 –> 00:57:02,445
have bought into the lie that human beings are just machines,

894
00:57:03,490 –> 00:57:07,170
just computational. There’s no difference between me and a

895
00:57:07,170 –> 00:57:11,010
computer. And the problem is or not the

896
00:57:11,010 –> 00:57:14,770
problem. The in order for me to be great, I

897
00:57:14,770 –> 00:57:17,990
have to believe that I’m more than just a mechanical a biomechanical

898
00:57:19,704 –> 00:57:23,545
series of impulses that are just reacting to things. I have

899
00:57:23,545 –> 00:57:27,065
a friend who’s kind of on the other side where he we we were talking

900
00:57:27,065 –> 00:57:30,845
about this. It was a maddening conversation for me because

901
00:57:31,224 –> 00:57:34,859
everything it’s like, oh, he like, I was like, humans are

902
00:57:34,859 –> 00:57:38,380
different from animals. Like, we just are. Oh, yeah. Like, yes, we are animals, but

903
00:57:38,380 –> 00:57:42,080
we are, like, almost like animals plus. Mhmm. Yeah. Exactly.

904
00:57:42,140 –> 00:57:45,675
But because you cannot prove or measure consciousness or the

905
00:57:45,675 –> 00:57:49,515
soul, like, there’s no empirical you can’t do that empirically. He

906
00:57:49,515 –> 00:57:52,655
was like, we’re just we’re just all we’re just animals. And I’m like

907
00:57:53,835 –> 00:57:57,435
Maybe you’re an animal. What? And we’re like, I tried to,

908
00:57:57,435 –> 00:58:01,230
like, find I’m I’m when when I’m

909
00:58:01,230 –> 00:58:04,370
debating with this guy, we’re like, he’s, like, uber logical,

910
00:58:04,910 –> 00:58:08,050
and I am like, I’m an artist. Yeah.

911
00:58:08,510 –> 00:58:12,190
So emotions and, like, instinct. And I was

912
00:58:12,190 –> 00:58:15,915
like, but this doesn’t make sense, and I can’t give you the logic that you’ll

913
00:58:15,915 –> 00:58:19,355
accept Right. That that will help you. And so that that

914
00:58:19,595 –> 00:58:23,055
like, to this it’s almost like they’re they’re even though they believe

915
00:58:23,595 –> 00:58:27,275
different reasons why they both end up at the same thing of why we

916
00:58:27,275 –> 00:58:30,990
can’t do anything about the way we are. I’ll give you I’ll give you

917
00:58:30,990 –> 00:58:34,270
a a a tip for getting for getting through those kinds of arguments. I’m gonna

918
00:58:34,270 –> 00:58:37,970
help you out. No. Really. I am this is gonna be very helpful.

919
00:58:38,110 –> 00:58:41,810
Have him explain art logically. He can’t.

920
00:58:43,235 –> 00:58:47,075
Give me give me the evolutionary biological reason for

921
00:58:47,075 –> 00:58:50,915
a painting. I think he’s we’d sorta touched on

922
00:58:50,915 –> 00:58:54,295
that, and it was it had something to do with, like,

923
00:58:54,915 –> 00:58:58,680
finding a mate and procreation. Except except except

924
00:58:58,680 –> 00:59:02,280
people who are single and never find mates and never procreate don’t make

925
00:59:02,280 –> 00:59:06,040
paint. I mean, they make just make painting. The the the yeah. Let me just

926
00:59:06,120 –> 00:59:08,680
I don’t remember. By the way by the way, he’ll try to divide it into

927
00:59:08,680 –> 00:59:12,165
the macro and the micro. We’ll try to get you caught in details. Well, then

928
00:59:12,165 –> 00:59:16,005
he sent me a video of, like, a a a a, what is it?

929
00:59:16,005 –> 00:59:19,765
A, an elephant painting. And I was

930
00:59:19,765 –> 00:59:23,605
like, he’s like animals do art. Animals invent

931
00:59:23,605 –> 00:59:27,290
things. Like, what is it? Monkeys, fashion, tools.

932
00:59:27,830 –> 00:59:31,430
It was like No. Okay. But, dude, like, monkeys aren’t going to

933
00:59:31,430 –> 00:59:34,550
space. And he was like, why would they need to go to space? I was

934
00:59:34,550 –> 00:59:37,110
like, why did we need to go to space? We didn’t need to go to

935
00:59:37,110 –> 00:59:40,470
space. Right. Like, why do we need to do anything? And don’t tell me it’s

936
00:59:40,470 –> 00:59:44,265
mating. Don’t tell me don’t tell me we built a

937
00:59:44,265 –> 00:59:48,025
giant rocket to go to the moon just to get laid. That’s not

938
00:59:48,185 –> 00:59:51,625
no. Sorry. Sorry. It’s just

939
00:59:51,705 –> 00:59:55,545
No. It was just it was a very, like, maddening. And maddening is the

940
00:59:55,545 –> 00:59:59,250
word. Maddening. I’m just like, I I don’t know how to I don’t I

941
00:59:59,410 –> 01:00:02,210
we just have to stop. I think we just have to stop. I don’t know

942
01:00:02,210 –> 01:00:05,350
I don’t know how to continue this conversation without exploding.

943
01:00:06,370 –> 01:00:09,190
Well, and the and the and the the the misunderstanding,

944
01:00:10,610 –> 01:00:13,625
I think. Because I’ve had those kinds of conversations with folks as well.

945
01:00:14,725 –> 01:00:18,505
The kinds of the kinds of anchoring of

946
01:00:19,285 –> 01:00:22,825
assumptions, and this is the other thing. It lies deep underneath this.

947
01:00:23,205 –> 01:00:26,830
So underneath the assumption of the great man of history theory

948
01:00:26,830 –> 01:00:30,430
from Carlyle, who again based this off of what he

949
01:00:30,430 –> 01:00:34,110
saw Napoleon doing in Europe, okay, and

950
01:00:34,110 –> 01:00:37,485
others, the the the

951
01:00:37,725 –> 01:00:41,425
the understanding of that comes from a space

952
01:00:41,565 –> 01:00:44,865
where and we can’t throw this out with the bathwater,

953
01:00:46,045 –> 01:00:48,465
where it comes from understanding of how

954
01:00:50,460 –> 01:00:53,980
Christianity has worked through the loaf of

955
01:00:53,980 –> 01:00:57,740
humanity like yeast for the last two thousand

956
01:00:57,740 –> 01:01:01,420
years in the West. And the people who talk

957
01:01:01,420 –> 01:01:05,125
about a lack of free will want to throw

958
01:01:05,125 –> 01:01:08,964
the Christianity away, but they still want to have all of

959
01:01:08,964 –> 01:01:11,944
the results from Christianity. Yes. And so

960
01:01:13,285 –> 01:01:17,045
the other challenge question that I often have for folks who don’t believe in free

961
01:01:17,045 –> 01:01:20,740
will is, okay. I’m going to come to your house and

962
01:01:20,740 –> 01:01:24,420
eat you. Seriously, I’m gonna show up tomorrow, and I’m

963
01:01:24,420 –> 01:01:27,940
gonna eat you. And I don’t want you you can’t claim murder. You

964
01:01:27,940 –> 01:01:31,539
can’t give me any you just can’t. Because the

965
01:01:31,539 –> 01:01:35,255
idea of murder comes out of a Christian ethic that

966
01:01:35,255 –> 01:01:39,015
comes from a space that says you can choose to eat your neighbor

967
01:01:39,015 –> 01:01:42,695
or choose not to eat your neighbor, and here’s why. But you don’t believe we

968
01:01:42,695 –> 01:01:45,735
have free will. So the next time I have an impulse to be hungry, I’m

969
01:01:45,735 –> 01:01:49,420
just gonna show up to you, and you better, like, have your arm ready. Now

970
01:01:49,420 –> 01:01:53,180
that pulls up a cold. That, oh, that that pulls up people’s people cold.

971
01:01:53,180 –> 01:01:56,540
Because here’s the thing, they’re then going to argue from a position of

972
01:01:56,540 –> 01:02:00,140
natural law or from a position of something like that.

973
01:02:00,140 –> 01:02:03,680
Again, all those things come out of Christianity. All those assumptions come out of Christianity.

974
01:02:03,975 –> 01:02:07,195
And so the thing with with with the people who are

975
01:02:07,655 –> 01:02:11,275
anti not anti, but don’t believe in free will or who are more maybe atheistic

976
01:02:11,335 –> 01:02:14,215
in their in their pursuit is and this is a challenge question I have for

977
01:02:14,215 –> 01:02:16,295
all of them. And if any of them are listening here, it’s a challenge question

978
01:02:16,295 –> 01:02:19,350
I have for all of you. Explain to me how

979
01:02:20,370 –> 01:02:23,590
the right and wrong morality works without appealing to Christianity.

980
01:02:24,210 –> 01:02:28,050
And by the way, you can’t appeal to Buddhism or Islam either. No religion. Appeal

981
01:02:28,050 –> 01:02:31,255
to no religion and tell me how this works. And you can’t base it off

982
01:02:31,255 –> 01:02:34,855
of a philosophy either because a philosophy is narrow in its anchor. And,

983
01:02:34,855 –> 01:02:38,695
eventually, when you go all the way down, Nietzsche Nietzsche proved this, you wind

984
01:02:38,695 –> 01:02:42,375
up in the bottom of an abyss. So, you know, those are the kinds of

985
01:02:42,375 –> 01:02:46,050
dynamics that we have to consider when we’re answering this question.

986
01:02:47,550 –> 01:02:51,310
Short answer to your question is no. Because we don’t

987
01:02:51,310 –> 01:02:54,990
believe it can happen. Right? The

988
01:02:54,990 –> 01:02:58,450
collectively, like, culturally. Right?

989
01:02:58,865 –> 01:03:02,625
Yep. No. It’s gonna it’s probably it’s there’s there’s a dude on the

990
01:03:02,625 –> 01:03:06,164
scene who’s already here, and it’s felt like a slap in the face every time,

991
01:03:06,224 –> 01:03:09,905
and people are mad. And

992
01:03:09,905 –> 01:03:13,560
so maybe the next one hopefully will feel less like a slap in the

993
01:03:13,560 –> 01:03:17,240
face, but I don’t think it will because, really, it’s the slap in the

994
01:03:17,240 –> 01:03:20,920
face that has that it’s what it takes to get people to wake

995
01:03:20,920 –> 01:03:24,440
up. And as much as I would love to do it in the

996
01:03:24,440 –> 01:03:28,225
softer, more artistic way, that’s clearly not working

997
01:03:28,765 –> 01:03:32,605
because nobody will buy my shit anyway. So, yeah, no one will buy your stuff.

998
01:03:32,605 –> 01:03:35,185
Well, that’s okay. No one buys my stuff either.

999
01:03:37,805 –> 01:03:41,410
It’s fine. Fine. It’s fine. This is not for

1000
01:03:41,410 –> 01:03:44,550
Hollywood. So I’m not weird listening to anyone who’s left writing for Hollywood.

1001
01:03:46,690 –> 01:03:50,290
Those writers aren’t weird listening to either. Okay. I mean, they’re getting paid well,

1002
01:03:50,290 –> 01:03:51,650
hopefully. Right. Yeah. Well Well

1003
01:03:53,964 –> 01:03:57,724
They better be getting paid well. So okay. So in thinking

1004
01:03:57,724 –> 01:03:59,585
about this, though, like,

1005
01:04:03,244 –> 01:04:06,944
the idea that we can we can be people who

1006
01:04:07,550 –> 01:04:11,330
make a make a dent in the universe. This is what drives entrepreneurship.

1007
01:04:11,550 –> 01:04:14,690
Right? This is what drives, like, weird, crazy

1008
01:04:14,990 –> 01:04:18,670
entrepreneurial people. Right? And so I do think it is still

1009
01:04:18,670 –> 01:04:21,330
deeply embedded in the American spirit.

1010
01:04:22,965 –> 01:04:26,345
I I I think I I think back of I think of, like, Patrick Henry,

1011
01:04:26,405 –> 01:04:29,925
right, who was invited to the I always tell the story. He was invited to

1012
01:04:29,925 –> 01:04:33,685
the constitutional convention by Thomas Jefferson and didn’t wanna

1013
01:04:33,685 –> 01:04:37,500
go because he smelled a rat at the constitutional convention. He was like, no. He

1014
01:04:37,740 –> 01:04:41,500
he liked the articles of Confederation because he just wanted to go to, like at

1015
01:04:41,500 –> 01:04:44,460
the time, he just wanted to go to, like, Kentucky, which was the West, and

1016
01:04:44,460 –> 01:04:48,220
just be left alone. Like, there’s that strong streak

1017
01:04:48,220 –> 01:04:51,734
in America. And and, you know, the problem for us in the twentieth century is

1018
01:04:51,734 –> 01:04:55,494
we ran out of West to go to, and so we just turned, like, internally

1019
01:04:55,494 –> 01:04:57,115
and started just eating each other.

1020
01:05:00,694 –> 01:05:03,335
If you don’t like your neighbor, speaking of what we’re talking about in the last

1021
01:05:03,335 –> 01:05:06,140
section, you have no empathy for them. It used to be just you could pack

1022
01:05:06,140 –> 01:05:09,040
up your Conestoga wagon and just drive that way,

1023
01:05:10,540 –> 01:05:14,380
and you just go get new neighbors. Or maybe you don’t. Maybe you get,

1024
01:05:14,380 –> 01:05:17,985
like you you cordon off, like, 50 acres in New Little Nebraska, and

1025
01:05:18,145 –> 01:05:20,505
the only people you gotta deal with are the native people who’ve been there for

1026
01:05:20,505 –> 01:05:23,265
a while and are really upset that you’re there. But beyond that, like, I mean,

1027
01:05:23,265 –> 01:05:26,385
like, it’s fine. Like, you just you just go. You you just go. Like, you

1028
01:05:26,385 –> 01:05:30,225
just you’re you’re out. Right? Yep. And I think that

1029
01:05:30,225 –> 01:05:34,019
deep streak still lives in Americans. It’s that streak

1030
01:05:34,019 –> 01:05:37,779
of think about it. All the people who came to this country were

1031
01:05:37,779 –> 01:05:40,519
people that wanted to be left alone from, like, other places.

1032
01:05:41,859 –> 01:05:45,555
That’s so we’re the descendants of people who just want you to just I’m

1033
01:05:45,555 –> 01:05:47,974
not gonna say a word, but just leave it alone,

1034
01:05:52,435 –> 01:05:56,115
which then allows people because the the next thing

1035
01:05:56,115 –> 01:05:59,415
from there is if I’m left alone, then I could be a great man.

1036
01:06:00,080 –> 01:06:02,800
I I could be a great man or woman. All I need is a plot

1037
01:06:02,800 –> 01:06:05,680
of land, and now I’m a king. I’m a king of my own plot of

1038
01:06:05,680 –> 01:06:09,360
land, and ain’t nobody gonna come to pull this back to the wire. Ain’t

1039
01:06:09,360 –> 01:06:12,880
nobody gonna come along and move me off my block. Yeah. You go around ahead.

1040
01:06:12,880 –> 01:06:16,234
You try. Go try try to move me off my block. Watch watch what

1041
01:06:16,234 –> 01:06:19,674
happens. Someone go get

1042
01:06:19,674 –> 01:06:23,515
clapped. And I don’t care

1043
01:06:23,515 –> 01:06:27,050
if that, like, if that’s in I think our American

1044
01:06:27,050 –> 01:06:30,510
attitude is it doesn’t matter if that plot of land is in Nebraska.

1045
01:06:31,370 –> 01:06:35,050
I’m picking up Nebraska a lot lately. Let’s say Iowa. It’s in

1046
01:06:35,050 –> 01:06:38,570
Iowa. Or if that plot of land is the backstoop in

1047
01:06:38,570 –> 01:06:41,685
Baltimore. This is my spot.

1048
01:06:42,545 –> 01:06:46,385
You are not moving me off of this. I can be great in

1049
01:06:46,385 –> 01:06:50,145
this spot. I don’t have to be great for the whole global world. I’m

1050
01:06:50,145 –> 01:06:53,365
not Napoleon. I don’t have to be that guy,

1051
01:06:54,820 –> 01:06:58,020
but I can take ideas from Napoleon, which is part of the conceit of this

1052
01:06:58,020 –> 01:07:00,119
podcast. I could take ideas from Napoleon,

1053
01:07:02,099 –> 01:07:04,760
and I can use them use those ideas,

1054
01:07:05,780 –> 01:07:09,325
to what to make myself great and use my use those ideas to

1055
01:07:09,325 –> 01:07:12,845
make my back suit better or to make my plot of land in Iowa

1056
01:07:12,845 –> 01:07:16,445
better. But I don’t have to, like, rule the world. I just have to rule

1057
01:07:16,445 –> 01:07:20,145
my own plot of land. I think that’s deeply embedded in the American psyche.

1058
01:07:22,250 –> 01:07:25,450
And I don’t think I don’t think And the king can’t come and take it

1059
01:07:25,450 –> 01:07:29,210
from me. Correct. And if or if the king tries to, there’s

1060
01:07:29,210 –> 01:07:32,569
gonna be a real problem. Not for me, for the king. There’s gonna be a

1061
01:07:32,569 –> 01:07:36,395
problem for the king. Like, as I used

1062
01:07:36,395 –> 01:07:38,955
to tell people before I got into fist fights and, like, when I was in

1063
01:07:38,955 –> 01:07:42,234
when I was in in teenager, like, I hope you brought all your boys with

1064
01:07:42,234 –> 01:07:45,435
you. I hope you brought everybody. I hope it’s not just you. Because if it’s

1065
01:07:45,435 –> 01:07:49,210
just you, well, you and me are gonna have a happy time. I hope you

1066
01:07:49,210 –> 01:07:50,350
brought a bunch of backup.

1067
01:07:53,050 –> 01:07:54,590
And that attitude

1068
01:07:57,370 –> 01:08:00,090
also rubs up against free will. So the guy you’re talking about that you’re having

1069
01:08:00,090 –> 01:08:03,850
an argument with about free will, I guarantee you, he thinks that,

1070
01:08:03,850 –> 01:08:07,184
like, he may have a sign on his front yard that says, hey. It has

1071
01:08:07,184 –> 01:08:10,865
no place here. I’m sure he does. He’s one of those people. I’m sure he

1072
01:08:10,865 –> 01:08:14,224
has that sign on his front yard or that there’s no

1073
01:08:14,224 –> 01:08:17,840
borders and whatever. Okay. It’s actually not.

1074
01:08:17,840 –> 01:08:20,880
Believe it or not, this is this is very Oh, this is Yeah. This is

1075
01:08:21,040 –> 01:08:24,800
very dear friends. It’s very I’m casting aspersions in on someone I

1076
01:08:24,800 –> 01:08:28,319
know nothing about. It’s okay. It’s okay. Normally, I would say the same thing, but

1077
01:08:28,319 –> 01:08:29,119
it’s like, actually

1078
01:08:33,885 –> 01:08:37,645
Nope. Now we’re back. Okay.

1079
01:08:37,645 –> 01:08:39,405
So so yeah. I know. Yeah. So,

1080
01:08:42,444 –> 01:08:45,425
but when I see in general,

1081
01:08:46,770 –> 01:08:50,449
broad generalities, folks who speak or think in such ways, I

1082
01:08:50,449 –> 01:08:53,829
often wonder how far does that go into your personal

1083
01:08:54,449 –> 01:08:58,130
areas. Like, where exactly is the upper limit for you and your

1084
01:08:59,145 –> 01:09:02,585
because if there’s no free will, then there is no upper limit. There’s just, like,

1085
01:09:02,585 –> 01:09:05,385
just just go to the sky. There’s no upper limit. There’s no basement, but there’s

1086
01:09:05,385 –> 01:09:09,005
also no upper limit. Right? There’s no there’s no bounded hierarchy.

1087
01:09:09,385 –> 01:09:13,090
Right? But you aren’t operating as if there’s

1088
01:09:13,090 –> 01:09:16,550
not a bounded hierarchy. You’re operating as if there is a bounded

1089
01:09:17,010 –> 01:09:20,770
hierarchy, and that comes from somewhere. And then only

1090
01:09:20,770 –> 01:09:24,290
in a bounded hierarchy can you truly have free will. That’s a deeply

1091
01:09:24,290 –> 01:09:27,995
philosophical idea that we don’t have time to get into, but it’s true

1092
01:09:28,055 –> 01:09:31,814
when we walk it out as Americans, all the

1093
01:09:31,814 –> 01:09:32,314
time.

1094
01:09:35,735 –> 01:09:39,335
So, okay, Napoleon himself. So I we were talking

1095
01:09:39,335 –> 01:09:42,979
before we had reported on this on this show

1096
01:09:43,040 –> 01:09:44,979
that I had watched the Ridley Scott

1097
01:09:47,040 –> 01:09:47,939
Napoleon movie.

1098
01:09:50,880 –> 01:09:54,179
Are we are we just trying to make a softer, cuddlier Napoleon?

1099
01:09:55,815 –> 01:09:59,335
I don’t I I don’t know. I don’t I haven’t read a

1100
01:09:59,335 –> 01:10:02,955
bunch on on Napoleon. I do keep thinking of a

1101
01:10:03,175 –> 01:10:06,635
a a historical fantasy series that I just finished reading. It’s by Naomi

1102
01:10:06,775 –> 01:10:09,849
Novick, and it’s called the Temeraire novels.

1103
01:10:10,389 –> 01:10:12,889
Okay. It’s like what if dragons

1104
01:10:14,150 –> 01:10:17,770
were, you know, involved in, the the Napoleonic

1105
01:10:17,909 –> 01:10:21,685
wars. K. And I

1106
01:10:21,685 –> 01:10:25,525
love it. I love it. I I love fantasy. I love dragons. It it ticks

1107
01:10:25,525 –> 01:10:29,285
all the boxes for me. You know, every nation has different dragons.

1108
01:10:29,285 –> 01:10:32,825
Very, very, very, very interesting. But

1109
01:10:33,045 –> 01:10:35,225
the main character actually encounters Napoleon

1110
01:10:37,849 –> 01:10:41,610
multiple times. And it was really interesting. It was

1111
01:10:41,610 –> 01:10:45,210
talking about, like, humanizing the boogeyman. Just

1112
01:10:45,210 –> 01:10:48,889
really like, he was I don’t feel like

1113
01:10:48,889 –> 01:10:51,935
she portrayed him as, like, cuddly

1114
01:10:52,795 –> 01:10:56,315
and softer. Like, he certainly had his things kind of what we were talking about

1115
01:10:56,315 –> 01:10:59,755
earlier, he certainly had his things that he cared about deeply and was,

1116
01:10:59,755 –> 01:11:02,895
like, if you wanna say softer, emotionally

1117
01:11:03,195 –> 01:11:06,630
invested in. Like, he he was very, like, she portrayed him as

1118
01:11:06,630 –> 01:11:09,370
having very, strong passions,

1119
01:11:10,870 –> 01:11:13,770
and conviction for what he was doing.

1120
01:11:17,190 –> 01:11:20,885
But at the same time, absolutely ruthless in

1121
01:11:20,885 –> 01:11:24,565
his pursuit of achieving that

1122
01:11:24,565 –> 01:11:28,185
end to to kind of, like, the, you know, the

1123
01:11:28,405 –> 01:11:32,245
do do the ends justify the means? Right. She raises that

1124
01:11:32,245 –> 01:11:35,889
question. And, I mean, the the

1125
01:11:35,889 –> 01:11:39,570
main character is always like, no. No. These

1126
01:11:39,570 –> 01:11:42,949
ends do not justify the means. But,

1127
01:11:43,650 –> 01:11:47,415
but it still pops up. Right? It’s it’s clearly it’s clearly

1128
01:11:47,415 –> 01:11:51,015
a question there in the in in kind of the narratives just floating out

1129
01:11:51,015 –> 01:11:54,615
there. She doesn’t she doesn’t what is it? She doesn’t,

1130
01:11:55,575 –> 01:11:59,415
not ham fisted. It’s not very heavy handed. It’s nice and subtle. I love

1131
01:11:59,415 –> 01:12:03,110
her writing. It’s amazing. Okay. But yeah. So it just reminded me

1132
01:12:03,110 –> 01:12:03,929
that Napoleon,

1133
01:12:06,790 –> 01:12:10,010
and and humanizing him, but also, like, letting him be

1134
01:12:10,630 –> 01:12:12,969
the guy that steamrolled across Europe.

1135
01:12:14,445 –> 01:12:18,284
Right. Right. Well and and primarily because and I’m I’m a

1136
01:12:18,284 –> 01:12:21,965
little bit of a military history guy. Like, he steamrolled across Europe

1137
01:12:21,965 –> 01:12:25,725
because he fought in unconventional ways that no one

1138
01:12:25,725 –> 01:12:29,280
had predicted. So

1139
01:12:30,220 –> 01:12:34,060
because warfare is so radically different than it was now, than it was

1140
01:12:34,060 –> 01:12:37,600
two hundred years ago, it’s hard for us to comprehend. But

1141
01:12:38,860 –> 01:12:42,605
you had to literally stand within four feet of

1142
01:12:42,605 –> 01:12:46,045
somebody to kill them with a musket. Right.

1143
01:12:46,364 –> 01:12:50,205
Or you could stand Or stab them. Or stab them. Or you could

1144
01:12:50,205 –> 01:12:52,625
mount up a cannon, you know,

1145
01:12:54,030 –> 01:12:57,790
200, three hundred, four hundred, five hundred yards away, and they had to

1146
01:12:57,790 –> 01:13:01,250
get within range before you could blow them to smithereens.

1147
01:13:02,030 –> 01:13:05,409
And the vast majority of people in war

1148
01:13:06,195 –> 01:13:09,875
didn’t die from bullet wounds or even

1149
01:13:09,875 –> 01:13:13,335
from, from, shrapnel

1150
01:13:13,795 –> 01:13:17,635
or from cannonade. The vast majority of people in the wars of the

1151
01:13:17,635 –> 01:13:21,110
eighteenth century died from botched

1152
01:13:21,330 –> 01:13:24,390
mutations, gangrene disease, poor conditions,

1153
01:13:24,770 –> 01:13:27,750
cholera, hunger, you know, all the things that drove,

1154
01:13:28,770 –> 01:13:32,310
that drove Napoleon out of Russia, that show up in the winter.

1155
01:13:34,210 –> 01:13:38,045
Why you don’t go across the Ural Mountains or

1156
01:13:38,045 –> 01:13:41,665
even try to. Anyway, whatever.

1157
01:13:42,445 –> 01:13:46,125
I’m sure someone will try again in another, like, fifty years, and it won’t work

1158
01:13:46,125 –> 01:13:49,500
then either. But Gosh. Sorry. Eddie

1159
01:13:49,500 –> 01:13:53,300
Izzard has this special. It’s called Dress to Kill, and it’s it

1160
01:13:53,420 –> 01:13:57,260
he comments on on history. And just that’s his what is

1161
01:13:57,260 –> 01:13:59,886
it? Napoleon tries to go to, I’ve got a good idea. I’ve got a good

1162
01:13:59,886 –> 01:14:01,845
idea. I’ve got a good idea. It’s, oh, it’s cold. It’s a bit cold. It’s

1163
01:14:01,845 –> 01:14:05,605
bit cold. And then, you know, Hitler does the same thing however many

1164
01:14:05,605 –> 01:14:08,085
years. I’ve got a different idea. I’ve got a different idea. Oh, it’s the same

1165
01:14:08,085 –> 01:14:11,605
idea. It’s the same idea. Hitler had my wrist because he was a

1166
01:14:11,605 –> 01:14:13,145
kid. Yeah. Yep.

1167
01:14:16,310 –> 01:14:20,070
He just he comments kind of on Pol Pot and and Stalin, and

1168
01:14:20,070 –> 01:14:23,750
he rattles off the numbers. And he’s like, Hitler tried to kill people

1169
01:14:23,750 –> 01:14:27,430
next door. Stupid man. You got it. Because they just all

1170
01:14:27,430 –> 01:14:30,330
killed their own people. So we were just sort of fine with that.

1171
01:14:32,105 –> 01:14:35,865
You don’t. You gotta kill strangers. That’s that’s what we’ve learned. That’s what Stalin

1172
01:14:35,865 –> 01:14:38,825
taught us. You gotta kill strangers. And you have to make it just you have

1173
01:14:38,825 –> 01:14:42,665
to just sort of make it, sort of just it has to

1174
01:14:42,665 –> 01:14:45,890
be a simple matter of just signing a piece of paper. Just sign a piece

1175
01:14:45,890 –> 01:14:49,410
of paper, and they’ll go have a martini. Like, this is this is how you

1176
01:14:49,410 –> 01:14:52,370
have to do it. This is that bureaucrat we’re gonna talk about bureaucracy here in

1177
01:14:52,370 –> 01:14:55,970
a minute. Yeah. This is the bureaucratization of of

1178
01:14:55,970 –> 01:14:58,870
of of behavior. So, anyway, so Napoleon,

1179
01:14:59,715 –> 01:15:02,935
he was the guy who, like, figured out that,

1180
01:15:03,395 –> 01:15:07,235
oh, wait. If I just show up with troops here before anybody

1181
01:15:07,235 –> 01:15:10,055
expects me, all of those other factors

1182
01:15:10,915 –> 01:15:14,550
don’t matter, right, or they matter less.

1183
01:15:14,770 –> 01:15:18,450
And so he and this is part of Louis Louis the

1184
01:15:18,450 –> 01:15:22,130
eighteenth’s objection as well, even in the caricature of him that

1185
01:15:22,130 –> 01:15:25,955
Demas is bringing to the forefront. Every single one

1186
01:15:25,955 –> 01:15:29,395
of the people who live through the Napoleonic era were

1187
01:15:29,395 –> 01:15:33,075
caught back to the great man idea completely by surprise by his

1188
01:15:33,075 –> 01:15:35,095
behavior because it violated,

1189
01:15:37,040 –> 01:15:40,880
to paraphrase a phrase that’s used about someone else recently, standards

1190
01:15:40,880 –> 01:15:44,719
and norms of whatever it is that they thought was

1191
01:15:44,719 –> 01:15:48,239
going to happen. And Napoleon just said, well, standards and norms are are

1192
01:15:48,239 –> 01:15:51,795
standards and norms only for this moment. Like, It was the

1193
01:15:51,795 –> 01:15:54,595
ultimate sort of and and this is what a lot of folks are are like,

1194
01:15:54,595 –> 01:15:58,355
but particularly in military history. The people who stand out are the ones who

1195
01:15:58,355 –> 01:16:02,115
are, like, the who says people. Who says that it has to work

1196
01:16:02,115 –> 01:16:05,730
this way? Who where is the committee meeting? I wasn’t invited to that.

1197
01:16:05,890 –> 01:16:08,130
Since I wasn’t invited to the committee meeting, I’m gonna do whatever the hell I

1198
01:16:08,130 –> 01:16:11,810
want, and you people you people may do well. And they’ll

1199
01:16:11,810 –> 01:16:14,710
call me a military genius later when they’re writing history books.

1200
01:16:15,489 –> 01:16:19,110
Well, yeah. Like, I’m a I’m a civil war buff, and, like,

1201
01:16:19,455 –> 01:16:23,135
everybody loves Robert e Lee, which is fine. And Lee

1202
01:16:23,135 –> 01:16:26,915
was a good general from a from a tactician’s perspective.

1203
01:16:27,215 –> 01:16:29,315
He absolutely was a great tactician.

1204
01:16:32,110 –> 01:16:35,730
Execution was a little weak, but he was great as a tactician. Right?

1205
01:16:36,430 –> 01:16:39,810
But Grant Grant was a strategist who was willing

1206
01:16:40,590 –> 01:16:44,350
to do on the execution part what Robert e Lee wasn’t willing

1207
01:16:44,350 –> 01:16:47,945
to do. He was just willing to just dump people into Vicksburg

1208
01:16:48,324 –> 01:16:52,085
and dump people into, into,

1209
01:16:52,485 –> 01:16:56,324
Chancellorsville and these other big battles, in the American

1210
01:16:56,324 –> 01:16:58,905
Civil War and realized that

1211
01:16:59,930 –> 01:17:03,530
if you have numbers, then all the rest of

1212
01:17:03,530 –> 01:17:07,370
it doesn’t doesn’t matter. Just how many people are you willing to

1213
01:17:07,370 –> 01:17:11,210
put into the wood chipper to get what you want. And he sort of just

1214
01:17:11,210 –> 01:17:14,685
went with it. But but he also had Sherman, and

1215
01:17:14,685 –> 01:17:17,725
Sherman was a great tactician. And Sherman was the guy who didn’t wanna put people

1216
01:17:17,725 –> 01:17:20,925
in the wood chipper. He would do it if he needed to, but he didn’t

1217
01:17:20,925 –> 01:17:24,705
want to. That wasn’t his first, like, impetus. His first impetus was,

1218
01:17:24,800 –> 01:17:28,160
okay. Can we get the logistics here? Because if we can get the logistics right,

1219
01:17:28,160 –> 01:17:31,840
if we can move the men and material in the correct direction and put them

1220
01:17:31,840 –> 01:17:35,600
in the correct spot, again, just like Napoleon, before Lee

1221
01:17:35,600 –> 01:17:39,394
shows up, Then maybe we don’t have to dump

1222
01:17:39,394 –> 01:17:41,875
as many people in the wood chipper as we think we would have. We can

1223
01:17:42,195 –> 01:17:45,494
instead of dumping a hundred thousand in, we could only dump, like, 50.

1224
01:17:46,195 –> 01:17:49,795
And it’ll be fine. Like, we’ll or 20, and we’ll actually win. And

1225
01:17:49,795 –> 01:17:53,630
so that’s the battle that’s the thing in military. So you see

1226
01:17:53,630 –> 01:17:57,390
that with Bonaparte too. You see, he was he was willing to put people in

1227
01:17:57,390 –> 01:18:01,070
the wood chipper, but he didn’t I don’t think he was happy

1228
01:18:01,070 –> 01:18:04,695
about it. He wasn’t happy about losing Right. You know, he wasn’t

1229
01:18:04,755 –> 01:18:08,275
pleased about that, but that was the exigencies based on the technology he

1230
01:18:08,275 –> 01:18:11,875
had. If he’d had a howitzer, he’d had he’d lost five guys, and that’d been

1231
01:18:11,875 –> 01:18:15,715
it. He’d been fine. He’s like, I have

1232
01:18:15,715 –> 01:18:19,050
a howitzer. Like, what’s the problem? Surrender.

1233
01:18:20,150 –> 01:18:23,590
So, by the way, in that book speaking of Howitzer. In that book, because I’m

1234
01:18:23,590 –> 01:18:27,030
a Game of Thrones guy too. In that book, did, did Napoleon get his

1235
01:18:27,030 –> 01:18:30,645
500 ton dragon, or did they not give him a dragon? Oh,

1236
01:18:30,645 –> 01:18:33,365
he got a dragon. Oh, he gets a dragon? Oh, well, Cecil C. There you

1237
01:18:33,365 –> 01:18:36,325
go. I’ll Cecil C. There you go. Dragon. Well, then there you go. I mean,

1238
01:18:36,325 –> 01:18:39,765
that She’s she is also that I think do you know, kinda listening to what

1239
01:18:39,765 –> 01:18:42,825
you’d say about, his unexpected tactics,

1240
01:18:44,200 –> 01:18:46,300
She is kind of she, like,

1241
01:18:48,040 –> 01:18:51,800
amplifies that because she just starts to bring she’s she’s

1242
01:18:51,800 –> 01:18:55,500
a Chinese dragon, and so she starts bringing just completely

1243
01:18:55,560 –> 01:18:59,325
different thoughts and and and ways of having

1244
01:18:59,325 –> 01:19:02,625
dragons fight specifically, but also having

1245
01:19:03,165 –> 01:19:07,005
dragons and humans work together in in

1246
01:19:07,005 –> 01:19:10,845
in ways that Europeans aren’t doing yet. And so they just

1247
01:19:10,845 –> 01:19:14,435
start stealing

1248
01:19:14,435 –> 01:19:18,140
all of the I mean, I like this better. You might have

1249
01:19:18,140 –> 01:19:20,780
sold me on this book. I like this better because usually what we’ll do is

1250
01:19:20,780 –> 01:19:24,060
we’ll give, like, Nazis dragons, and they will, like, have them all living on the

1251
01:19:24,060 –> 01:19:27,420
moon as, like, lizard people. Like, usually, that’s the fiction that that we

1252
01:19:27,420 –> 01:19:31,235
get because World War two is, like, the thing in our head Yeah. Or whatever,

1253
01:19:31,295 –> 01:19:34,755
collectively, although that is going out of the water as I said previously Yeah.

1254
01:19:35,615 –> 01:19:37,955
Quite a bit. Vaster than I would have thought.

1255
01:19:39,145 –> 01:19:42,909
But but I like this idea of going back and giving Napoleon a

1256
01:19:42,909 –> 01:19:46,750
dragon. It’s like giving him, like, Sun Tzu quotes and stuff. Like, I love

1257
01:19:46,750 –> 01:19:50,429
that. Yeah. Yeah. You

1258
01:19:50,429 –> 01:19:53,150
know, she’s gonna run a little Sun Tzu up the pole and up the ladder

1259
01:19:53,150 –> 01:19:56,925
and see see what sticks. Yeah. Yeah. With

1260
01:19:56,925 –> 01:20:00,685
this, with this guy. Yeah. Okay. It’s really

1261
01:20:00,685 –> 01:20:04,225
interesting. The the way she kinda interweaves all of the the various,

1262
01:20:05,965 –> 01:20:09,025
world cultures of the time, even though, like,

1263
01:20:09,590 –> 01:20:13,429
they were starting to interact more regularly. But for the most part, we’re

1264
01:20:13,429 –> 01:20:16,309
like, no. You you stay over there. You stay over there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You

1265
01:20:16,309 –> 01:20:19,289
can come in on this port and only this port,

1266
01:20:20,389 –> 01:20:23,989
but please don’t bring your shit over here. Well and,

1267
01:20:23,989 –> 01:20:27,105
actually, weirdly enough, I think on the back end

1268
01:20:27,805 –> 01:20:30,765
of all of this, we’re gonna actually have more of that in the future over

1269
01:20:30,765 –> 01:20:34,605
the next twenty five years, not less. And, again, these things ebb and

1270
01:20:34,605 –> 01:20:37,745
flow. I can’t say whether that will be a bad or a good thing. Right.

1271
01:20:38,430 –> 01:20:41,969
But I do think we I think we’ve probably over indexed enough globalization

1272
01:20:42,350 –> 01:20:46,190
at this point. Mhmm. I think most people are tired of

1273
01:20:46,270 –> 01:20:49,730
well, I think most people are tired of

1274
01:20:50,989 –> 01:20:54,605
the direct we export and some of the direct we import.

1275
01:20:54,665 –> 01:20:56,685
Yeah. So yeah. Alright.

1276
01:20:58,665 –> 01:21:02,505
Let’s round the corner here back to the book, back to

1277
01:21:02,505 –> 01:21:06,345
Count of Monte Cristo. So, there is a meeting here that

1278
01:21:06,345 –> 01:21:09,960
we’re going to talk about. I’m gonna read

1279
01:21:09,960 –> 01:21:13,720
specific pieces of this chapter, not the whole not the not the whole, like,

1280
01:21:13,720 –> 01:21:16,860
chunk that I have set up here to think about.

1281
01:21:18,600 –> 01:21:21,560
This is after Villefort leaves the,

1282
01:21:22,265 –> 01:21:25,785
leaves the king’s presence and goes to his

1283
01:21:25,785 –> 01:21:29,625
hotel. The chapter is chapter 12, father and

1284
01:21:29,625 –> 01:21:33,385
son. M Nortier, for this was the man

1285
01:21:33,385 –> 01:21:36,570
who had just entered, kept an eye on the servant until the door had closed.

1286
01:21:36,790 –> 01:21:39,830
Then doubtless fearing that he might be listening in the antechamber, he went and opened

1287
01:21:39,830 –> 01:21:43,350
it again behind him. There was no vain this was no vain precaution, and the

1288
01:21:43,350 –> 01:21:46,870
speed of Germaine’s retreat proved he was no stranger to the sin that caused the

1289
01:21:46,870 –> 01:21:50,585
downfall of our first parents. And

1290
01:21:50,585 –> 01:21:53,945
then took the trouble to go himself and shut the door of the

1291
01:21:53,945 –> 01:21:57,145
antechamber, returned and shut out of the bedroom, slid the bolt, and went over to

1292
01:21:57,145 –> 01:22:00,765
take a bill for his hand. The young man, meanwhile, had been following these maneuvers

1293
01:22:00,825 –> 01:22:03,405
with a surprise from which he had not yet recovered.

1294
01:22:04,870 –> 01:22:08,710
How now do you know, dear Gerard, Ortea said, looking at his

1295
01:22:08,710 –> 01:22:12,010
son with an ambiguous smile, that you do not appear altogether

1296
01:22:12,310 –> 01:22:15,910
overjoyed at seeing me? On the contrary, father, I am

1297
01:22:15,910 –> 01:22:19,695
delighted that your visit is so unexpected that I am somewhat dazed by it.

1298
01:22:19,775 –> 01:22:22,895
My dear friend, or to your continued taking a seat. I might say the same

1299
01:22:22,895 –> 01:22:26,675
myself. How is this? You tell me that you are getting engaged in Marseille

1300
01:22:26,735 –> 01:22:30,195
on the February 28, and on March, you are in Paris.

1301
01:22:31,135 –> 01:22:34,494
If I am here, father, said Gerard, going across to you in North here, do

1302
01:22:34,494 –> 01:22:38,340
not do not complain about it. I came for

1303
01:22:38,340 –> 01:22:41,160
your sake, and this journey may perhaps save your life.

1304
01:22:42,180 –> 01:22:45,940
Indeed, said casually leaning back at the chair where he

1305
01:22:45,940 –> 01:22:49,540
was sitting. Indeed, tell me about it, I am

1306
01:22:49,540 –> 01:22:53,375
most curious. Have you heard about a certain Bonapartist club that

1307
01:22:53,375 –> 01:22:57,135
meets in the Rue Saint Jacques? At Number 53, yes. I am its vice

1308
01:22:57,135 –> 01:23:00,915
president. Father, I am amazed by your composure.

1309
01:23:01,455 –> 01:23:04,740
How did you expect, dear boy, when one has been proscribed by the

1310
01:23:04,900 –> 01:23:08,340
Montagnards, left Paris in a hay cart, and been hunted across the world ends of

1311
01:23:08,340 –> 01:23:11,940
Bordeaux by Robespierre’s bloodhounds? One is inured to most

1312
01:23:11,940 –> 01:23:15,460
things. So continue. What has happened to this club in the Rue Saint

1313
01:23:15,460 –> 01:23:19,210
Jacques? What has happened is that general Quesnel has called to it, and that

1314
01:23:19,210 –> 01:23:22,997
general Quesnel having left home at nine in the evening was pulled out of the

1315
01:23:22,997 –> 01:23:26,783
same two days later. And who told you this fine story? The king himself. Well,

1316
01:23:26,783 –> 01:23:30,571
now in exchange for your story, I have some news to tell you. Father, I

1317
01:23:30,571 –> 01:23:34,240
think I already know what you are about to say. Ah, so you already know

1318
01:23:34,240 –> 01:23:37,920
about the landing of his majesty, the emperor. I beg you not to say such

1319
01:23:37,920 –> 01:23:41,760
things, father, firstly for your own sake then for mine. I did know this piece

1320
01:23:41,760 –> 01:23:44,560
of news. I knew it even before you did because over the past three days,

1321
01:23:44,560 –> 01:23:47,840
I have been pounding the road between Marseille and Paris, raging at my inability to

1322
01:23:47,840 –> 01:23:51,535
project, the thought that was burning through my skull and sent it 200

1323
01:23:51,535 –> 01:23:54,895
beaks ahead of me. Three days ago, are you

1324
01:23:54,895 –> 01:23:58,035
mad? The emperor had not landed three days ago.

1325
01:23:58,735 –> 01:24:02,370
For no matter, I knew of his plans. How did you know? From a letter

1326
01:24:02,370 –> 01:24:05,890
addressed to you from the Isle Of Elba to me. To you. I

1327
01:24:05,890 –> 01:24:09,410
intercepted you in the messenger’s wallet. If that letter had fallen into another’s hands, father,

1328
01:24:09,410 –> 01:24:13,170
you might have already been shot. Vilfor’s father burst

1329
01:24:13,170 –> 01:24:17,005
out laughing. It seems that the restoration

1330
01:24:17,225 –> 01:24:20,045
has taken lessons from the empire and how to expedite matters.

1331
01:24:20,745 –> 01:24:24,345
My dear boy, you are being carried away. So where is this letter? I know

1332
01:24:24,345 –> 01:24:27,405
you better than to imagine you would leave it laying around.

1333
01:24:28,440 –> 01:24:31,960
I burned it to make sure that not a scrap remained. That letter was your

1334
01:24:31,960 –> 01:24:35,740
death warrant. The death knell to your future career?

1335
01:24:36,200 –> 01:24:40,040
Replied coldly. This is not gonna talk

1336
01:24:40,040 –> 01:24:43,725
about the letter. They’re going to talk about the king. Let’s skip

1337
01:24:43,725 –> 01:24:45,745
forward a little bit. And,

1338
01:24:48,205 –> 01:24:51,885
well, Monsieur Noussier makes this point. The king, I

1339
01:24:51,885 –> 01:24:54,925
thought him enough of a philosopher to realize that there is no such thing as

1340
01:24:54,925 –> 01:24:58,730
murder in politics. You know as well as I do, my dear boy, that

1341
01:24:58,730 –> 01:25:02,410
in politics, there are no people, only ideas, no feelings, only

1342
01:25:02,410 –> 01:25:06,010
interests. In politics, you don’t kill a man. You remove an obstacle. That’s

1343
01:25:06,010 –> 01:25:09,450
all. You want to know what happened? I’ll tell you. We thought we could count

1344
01:25:09,450 –> 01:25:13,245
on general Quesnel. He had been recommended to us from the Isle Of Elba. 1

1345
01:25:13,245 –> 01:25:15,645
of us went round to his house and invited him to attend a meeting at

1346
01:25:15,645 –> 01:25:18,605
the Rue Saint Jacques where he would be among friends. He came and was told

1347
01:25:18,605 –> 01:25:22,364
the whole plan, departure from the Isle Of Elba, the intended landing place. Then when

1348
01:25:22,364 –> 01:25:25,165
he had listened to everything and heard everything and there was no more for him

1349
01:25:25,165 –> 01:25:28,869
to learn, he announced that he was a royalist. At this, we all looked at

1350
01:25:28,869 –> 01:25:32,650
one another. We obliged him to take an oath, and he did so.

1351
01:25:32,710 –> 01:25:36,150
But truly, with such little good grace, it was tempting God to swear in that

1352
01:25:36,150 –> 01:25:39,849
way. In spite of all, however, we let him go freely, quite freely.

1353
01:25:40,145 –> 01:25:43,905
He did not return home. What do you expect, my dear?

1354
01:25:43,905 –> 01:25:47,125
You left us and must have taken the wrong road. That’s all of murder.

1355
01:25:47,665 –> 01:25:51,105
Really? You surprised me. You were

1356
01:25:51,105 –> 01:25:54,864
deputy crown prosecution making an accusation founded on such

1357
01:25:54,864 –> 01:25:57,440
poor evidence. Have I ever told you when you’ve done your job as a royalist

1358
01:25:57,440 –> 01:26:00,000
and had the head cut off one of our people? My son, you have committed

1359
01:26:00,000 –> 01:26:03,840
murder. No. I have said very well, Monsieur. You have fought

1360
01:26:03,840 –> 01:26:07,300
and won, but tomorrow, we shall have

1361
01:26:07,680 –> 01:26:11,505
our revenge. And

1362
01:26:11,505 –> 01:26:14,245
then a little later, slipping forth,

1363
01:26:19,265 –> 01:26:22,945
Monsieur Noirtier proceeds to change

1364
01:26:22,945 –> 01:26:25,570
his clothes, change his appearance,

1365
01:26:27,230 –> 01:26:30,989
because the police the royalist police are pursuing him,

1366
01:26:30,989 –> 01:26:34,829
and he says this. However incompetent the royalist police may be, they

1367
01:26:34,829 –> 01:26:38,525
do know one dreadful thing, which is the description of the

1368
01:26:38,525 –> 01:26:42,125
man who visited General Quesnel on the day of his disappearance. Ah, the fine

1369
01:26:42,125 –> 01:26:45,725
police know that, do they? And what’s the description? Dark in

1370
01:26:45,725 –> 01:26:49,470
coloring, black hair, side whiskers and eyes, a blue frock coat buttoned up the chin,

1371
01:26:49,470 –> 01:26:52,670
the rosette of an officer of the legion of honor in his buttonhole, a broad

1372
01:26:52,670 –> 01:26:56,430
brimmed hat, and a rattan cane. Uh-huh. They know

1373
01:26:56,430 –> 01:26:59,890
that, Norcia. In that case, why do they not have their hands on this man?

1374
01:27:00,430 –> 01:27:03,710
Because they lost him yesterday or the day before on the corner of the Rue

1375
01:27:03,710 –> 01:27:07,244
Coquelin. Didn’t I tell you your police were idiots?

1376
01:27:07,945 –> 01:27:11,645
Yes. But at any moment, they may find him. Yes. Yes.

1377
01:27:11,704 –> 01:27:15,405
Well, said looking casually around him, yes, if the man is not worn.

1378
01:27:15,864 –> 01:27:19,500
But, yet smiling, he has been

1379
01:27:19,500 –> 01:27:23,340
worn, and he will change his appearance and his clothing. At these words,

1380
01:27:23,340 –> 01:27:25,980
he got up, took off his coat and cravat, went over to the table on

1381
01:27:25,980 –> 01:27:29,820
which everything was lying ready for his son’s toilet, took a razor, lathered his face

1382
01:27:29,820 –> 01:27:33,554
with a perfectly steady hand, shaved off the compromising side whiskers, which had provided

1383
01:27:33,554 –> 01:27:37,074
such a precious clue for the police. Villefort watched him with terror, not

1384
01:27:37,074 –> 01:27:40,675
unmixed with admiration. Once he had finished shaving,

1385
01:27:40,675 –> 01:27:44,034
Nortier rearranged his hair. Instead of his black carat, he took one of a different

1386
01:27:44,034 –> 01:27:46,540
color, which which was lying on top of an open trunk. Instead of his blue

1387
01:27:46,540 –> 01:27:49,820
button coat, he slipped on one of vousforks, which was brown and flared. In front

1388
01:27:49,820 –> 01:27:52,860
of the mirror, he tried the young man’s hat with its turned up brim, seemed

1389
01:27:52,860 –> 01:27:56,460
to find that it suited him, and leaving his rattan cane where he had rested

1390
01:27:56,460 –> 01:28:00,035
it against the fireplace, he took a little bamboo switch that the

1391
01:28:00,255 –> 01:28:03,855
deputy prosecutor would use to give himself that offhand manner, which was one of his

1392
01:28:03,855 –> 01:28:07,554
main attributes, and twirled it in his wiry hand.

1393
01:28:08,175 –> 01:28:11,955
How’s that? He said, turning back to his astonished son after completing this sort of

1394
01:28:13,110 –> 01:28:16,710
trick. Do you think your police will recognize me now? A no

1395
01:28:16,710 –> 01:28:19,770
father, Samford Villefort. I hope not at least.

1396
01:28:21,270 –> 01:28:22,330
And then, of course,

1397
01:28:25,395 –> 01:28:28,295
walked right out of Villefort’s

1398
01:28:29,235 –> 01:28:32,835
hotel room, not detected at all by the

1399
01:28:32,835 –> 01:28:36,135
royalist police on the corner.

1400
01:28:41,020 –> 01:28:44,780
As a father, I love that little section right there. I love what’s happening,

1401
01:28:44,780 –> 01:28:48,159
the dynamics there between father and son.

1402
01:28:49,179 –> 01:28:52,380
As a father to two sons, one older

1403
01:28:53,020 –> 01:28:56,135
significantly older, in his twenties,

1404
01:28:56,515 –> 01:29:00,355
approaching his thirties, and then one is the little boy I

1405
01:29:00,355 –> 01:29:04,115
mentioned earlier. It’s,

1406
01:29:05,395 –> 01:29:08,995
it’s very interesting to read about that dynamic because I can see my oldest

1407
01:29:08,995 –> 01:29:09,495
son.

1408
01:29:13,970 –> 01:29:17,510
Behaving in a scandalized fashion if I were to be caught up in something

1409
01:29:17,810 –> 01:29:21,170
that I would know I would be able to get out of. And

1410
01:29:21,170 –> 01:29:24,770
then seeing seeing my youngest son who is still in the position

1411
01:29:24,770 –> 01:29:28,425
of believing that I am a hero. We had this

1412
01:29:28,425 –> 01:29:31,965
conversation actually last night at bedtime, as of this recording.

1413
01:29:32,585 –> 01:29:36,025
He was saying that, if, if he ever got in trouble, he would there’s only

1414
01:29:36,025 –> 01:29:39,245
one person he would want to have his back, and that’s dad.

1415
01:29:40,265 –> 01:29:43,720
Aw. Well, this will last for a little while. Wait till about

1416
01:29:43,720 –> 01:29:46,860
twelve. Right. That’ll all go away. Yeah.

1417
01:29:47,560 –> 01:29:50,600
Or no. It won’t go away. It will shift and change. It will shift and

1418
01:29:50,600 –> 01:29:54,040
change. They still want dad to have his back just like Vilfor

1419
01:29:54,040 –> 01:29:57,565
did, Except it’ll change. Right?

1420
01:29:58,185 –> 01:30:01,565
And I’ll still be able to surprise my son.

1421
01:30:03,545 –> 01:30:05,965
Like Noirtier does. The entire book.

1422
01:30:08,905 –> 01:30:09,885
That just continues.

1423
01:30:15,470 –> 01:30:19,310
So there’s couple of different things happening in here, and we didn’t

1424
01:30:19,310 –> 01:30:22,450
get to this in the last episode about bureaucracy and

1425
01:30:23,070 –> 01:30:26,775
self serving behavior. But from every

1426
01:30:26,775 –> 01:30:30,155
level with the royalist, right, I

1427
01:30:30,695 –> 01:30:34,155
even even in the example in the king’s court, in Louis the eighteenth’s

1428
01:30:34,215 –> 01:30:37,655
court, right, they are stuck

1429
01:30:37,655 –> 01:30:41,349
in the bureaucrats. They’re stuck in being self serving and

1430
01:30:41,349 –> 01:30:45,110
venal. They’re looking for a man with side whiskers. So, of course, if

1431
01:30:45,110 –> 01:30:48,090
there’s no man with side whiskers, they’re not gonna bother the dude.

1432
01:30:49,750 –> 01:30:53,385
They are not allowing people to use the telegraph because

1433
01:30:53,465 –> 01:30:57,244
god forbid, someone used the telegraph, and they miss important

1434
01:30:57,545 –> 01:31:01,304
information. This is the challenge of

1435
01:31:01,304 –> 01:31:05,144
bureaucratic self interest that arises in every generation, either at the individual

1436
01:31:05,144 –> 01:31:08,969
level or the state level. How can leaders avoid

1437
01:31:08,969 –> 01:31:12,730
the pull of becoming thoughtless bureaucrats, Kristen? How can

1438
01:31:12,730 –> 01:31:14,909
they what can they take

1439
01:31:16,170 –> 01:31:19,929
from all of what we’ve read today, honestly, and

1440
01:31:19,929 –> 01:31:23,435
not wind up either wind up more like Villefort and less

1441
01:31:23,895 –> 01:31:27,655
like or maybe wind up more like. Right?

1442
01:31:27,655 –> 01:31:31,495
Like, how how do they make those how can they rise above the

1443
01:31:31,495 –> 01:31:35,180
systems that they are in that are the ones that provide them their

1444
01:31:35,180 –> 01:31:38,160
daily bread? Because it’s really hard to do, I would imagine.

1445
01:31:38,540 –> 01:31:42,140
Right? And I think

1446
01:31:42,140 –> 01:31:44,480
it’s hard to do, I think, because,

1447
01:31:46,875 –> 01:31:50,494
oh, gosh. Trying to figure out how to, articulate

1448
01:31:50,554 –> 01:31:53,454
this kinda succinctly, but maybe

1449
01:31:54,235 –> 01:31:57,755
not. My first my like, the probably the easiest way,

1450
01:31:57,755 –> 01:32:01,570
and I think most maybe most guys are not going to like

1451
01:32:01,950 –> 01:32:04,690
this answer. Have a heart.

1452
01:32:11,415 –> 01:32:13,775
Have a heart. Would I need that? Why would I need that? I look at

1453
01:32:13,775 –> 01:32:17,175
the size of my heart. Right? They’re people too. They, like

1454
01:32:17,655 –> 01:32:21,335
everybody is a person. And then also

1455
01:32:21,335 –> 01:32:25,110
remember that if you don’t like it’s

1456
01:32:25,110 –> 01:32:28,710
almost like there’s this underlying fear. Not almost. It’s like a base

1457
01:32:28,710 –> 01:32:32,150
instinct. Right? The scarcity. I have to be

1458
01:32:32,150 –> 01:32:35,530
grabbing what I need because if I don’t,

1459
01:32:36,230 –> 01:32:39,614
I won’t get it. Right? And that, I

1460
01:32:39,614 –> 01:32:43,454
think, is part of what leads to all of the

1461
01:32:43,454 –> 01:32:47,135
self serving. Like, if if I’m not gonna look out for me, no

1462
01:32:47,135 –> 01:32:50,940
one will. And I think there is, like, a

1463
01:32:50,940 –> 01:32:54,300
middle road that

1464
01:32:54,460 –> 01:32:58,060
yes. You know? Because because there there’s extreme there’s the other

1465
01:32:58,060 –> 01:33:01,900
extreme as well. Just like give it all away and let people walk over you.

1466
01:33:01,900 –> 01:33:05,580
And and and, you know, what is

1467
01:33:05,580 –> 01:33:09,155
it? Like, recommend your your coworker for the

1468
01:33:09,155 –> 01:33:12,994
promotion instead of you because, of course, they deserve it too and blah blah

1469
01:33:12,994 –> 01:33:16,534
blah. Like, that’s not what I’m talking about either. Like,

1470
01:33:17,155 –> 01:33:20,994
whatever you earn, take what you earn. Mhmm. Right. But don’t be a

1471
01:33:20,994 –> 01:33:22,560
dick. Right.

1472
01:33:26,460 –> 01:33:30,219
It just kinda goes back to, like, you know, these are gonna be

1473
01:33:30,219 –> 01:33:33,739
Christian themes. We’re gonna treat people how you wanna be treated. Like, take care of

1474
01:33:33,739 –> 01:33:36,800
your people. They’ll take care of you. That’s how you earn loyalty.

1475
01:33:37,365 –> 01:33:40,825
You care about them. So okay.

1476
01:33:40,965 –> 01:33:44,485
Remember I said before, I I I like Game of Thrones, or at least I

1477
01:33:44,485 –> 01:33:46,405
like some of the things that come out of Game of Thrones. Because, like, to

1478
01:33:46,405 –> 01:33:49,685
me, that’s like like, I watched a little bit of that show, my wife and

1479
01:33:49,685 –> 01:33:52,640
I did. And, every time I would watch it, I was like, oh my god.

1480
01:33:52,640 –> 01:33:56,320
This is like organizational behavior one zero one. Like, it’s it’s like like, if I

1481
01:33:56,320 –> 01:33:58,160
was to get to you if I was gonna write a show, this is what

1482
01:33:58,160 –> 01:33:58,900
I would write.

1483
01:34:02,735 –> 01:34:06,494
The the character in their little thinker, right, is a great line in

1484
01:34:06,494 –> 01:34:09,695
there, at least the TV show. Great line in there. It says chaos is a

1485
01:34:09,695 –> 01:34:13,534
ladder. Ladder. Mhmm. They named one of

1486
01:34:13,534 –> 01:34:16,514
these little pieces that, and it’s just it’s an incredible piece.

1487
01:34:17,054 –> 01:34:20,680
Oh. Oh, okay. What does that mean? Because people don’t understand what that

1488
01:34:20,680 –> 01:34:22,540
means. What does it mean chaos is a ladder?

1489
01:34:25,880 –> 01:34:29,580
I mean, you can use it. You can use chaos.

1490
01:34:29,720 –> 01:34:33,545
If you have if you have the, what is it, the presence

1491
01:34:33,545 –> 01:34:37,324
of mind while everybody else is losing their shit

1492
01:34:38,185 –> 01:34:41,405
and, like, what is it? I mean,

1493
01:34:41,784 –> 01:34:44,844
kind kinda what I was talking about, like, going like,

1494
01:34:45,864 –> 01:34:49,400
letting their baser instincts drive them. But if you

1495
01:34:49,400 –> 01:34:52,620
can if you can be like, I will be fine and use

1496
01:34:53,560 –> 01:34:57,400
this wonderfully big brain that we have and just stay

1497
01:34:57,400 –> 01:35:01,080
present, then you can % use chaos. And it comes up

1498
01:35:01,080 –> 01:35:02,780
in in Calle Monte Cristo,

1499
01:35:04,855 –> 01:35:08,075
In the chaos, like, ensuing after Napoleon,

1500
01:35:08,455 –> 01:35:11,835
like, kind of comes back but then falls again,

1501
01:35:12,215 –> 01:35:16,055
like, the Right. Hundred days. The people in power see a big

1502
01:35:16,055 –> 01:35:19,680
turnover, and it’s just crazy. It’s just crazy right there.

1503
01:35:20,940 –> 01:35:23,760
And some of the people that just keep their

1504
01:35:24,700 –> 01:35:28,300
wits about them Mhmm. And

1505
01:35:28,300 –> 01:35:31,920
have few moral qualms with playing both sides,

1506
01:35:34,475 –> 01:35:38,235
climbed that ladder during that chaos. Right. And, like, when we

1507
01:35:38,395 –> 01:35:42,155
hopefully, you know, the next episode, we’ll see when we get to discuss this. You

1508
01:35:42,155 –> 01:35:45,375
know, we’ll see how just how far, v four

1509
01:35:46,075 –> 01:35:49,760
was able to climb in in that insane

1510
01:35:49,820 –> 01:35:53,579
chaos. Well, not only v four, but well, not only v four, but

1511
01:35:53,579 –> 01:35:57,340
also Dante’s. Right? So during this time where this Not just climbs

1512
01:35:57,340 –> 01:36:01,179
it in a very different way, though. He does. He does. But you know what?

1513
01:36:01,179 –> 01:36:04,855
He climbs it nonetheless. Like, he has to climb that internal

1514
01:36:04,995 –> 01:36:08,755
chaos to even That’s true. It is a different yeah. Yeah.

1515
01:36:08,755 –> 01:36:12,594
He has to climb that ladder because if he doesn’t, he’s not getting out of

1516
01:36:12,594 –> 01:36:15,475
that dungeon. Like, he not getting out of that hole. He’s gonna die in that

1517
01:36:15,475 –> 01:36:18,000
hole, which, by the way, was the whole point is to put you in a

1518
01:36:18,000 –> 01:36:21,840
hole where you’re gonna die. Yeah. And the the the

1519
01:36:21,840 –> 01:36:25,599
point of and the the the timelessness of the Count of Monte Cristo is

1520
01:36:25,599 –> 01:36:28,099
that whether it’s internal or external,

1521
01:36:29,335 –> 01:36:32,855
you you have no if you want to be a great man or woman, you

1522
01:36:32,855 –> 01:36:36,554
have to climb that ladder. There’s no option to, like, not play.

1523
01:36:36,775 –> 01:36:40,614
And I think, a lot of us get distracted on

1524
01:36:40,614 –> 01:36:44,390
shoulds. It shouldn’t be this way. This shouldn’t be happening.

1525
01:36:44,390 –> 01:36:48,090
This isn’t right. Blah blah blah. I’m like, okay. Maybe

1526
01:36:48,230 –> 01:36:52,070
that’s true. Maybe may just even if we could all agree on one

1527
01:36:52,070 –> 01:36:55,485
moral code, which we can’t, but But even if

1528
01:36:55,485 –> 01:36:59,245
we could, maybe we could just all agree. This shouldn’t be happening. Okay.

1529
01:36:59,245 –> 01:37:02,925
But it is. So stop wasting your energy on that

1530
01:37:02,925 –> 01:37:05,824
this should not be happening. What are you gonna do about it?

1531
01:37:06,925 –> 01:37:10,225
There’s a difference between I’ve I’ve noticed this over the last

1532
01:37:11,210 –> 01:37:13,550
quarter, you know, last quarter of this year,

1533
01:37:15,690 –> 01:37:19,210
of 2025. There is a difference between people

1534
01:37:19,210 –> 01:37:22,970
who explain who are seeking the why, which is the

1535
01:37:22,970 –> 01:37:26,375
should people. Why is this happening? Why is this happening? Because at the bottom of

1536
01:37:26,375 –> 01:37:30,135
it is this shouldn’t be happening. I’m looking for, you know, the way to

1537
01:37:30,135 –> 01:37:33,975
get out of this versus the what people. The what people are

1538
01:37:33,975 –> 01:37:36,955
the people who are climbing the ladder. What’s the next step I have to take?

1539
01:37:37,040 –> 01:37:39,360
What’s the next step I have to take after that? What’s the next step I

1540
01:37:39,360 –> 01:37:43,200
have to take after that? And if you’re mired in the whys

1541
01:37:43,200 –> 01:37:46,640
and in the shoulds, you’re never gonna climb the ladder with the

1542
01:37:46,640 –> 01:37:50,344
whats. Right. But if you

1543
01:37:50,344 –> 01:37:53,625
are listening to this and you find yourself, well, I’m screwed because I am a

1544
01:37:53,625 –> 01:37:57,005
y person, just hear me out. I am also a y person.

1545
01:37:58,105 –> 01:38:01,945
That’s that’s where my brain goes. Okay? But and

1546
01:38:01,945 –> 01:38:05,390
and I think it becomes a strength when you can combine

1547
01:38:06,489 –> 01:38:10,330
them. Right? So you can’t get mired in the whys

1548
01:38:10,330 –> 01:38:13,930
and the shoulds because, again, that’s just a phenomenal waste of

1549
01:38:13,930 –> 01:38:17,530
energy. You have to, like, keep keep your brain on,

1550
01:38:17,530 –> 01:38:21,275
like, the concrete. It’s like the what’s the facts. Like, how do

1551
01:38:21,275 –> 01:38:24,635
we make it through? Kind of like the businesses that made it through COVID and

1552
01:38:24,635 –> 01:38:27,855
the ones that didn’t. Right. Right? I

1553
01:38:28,395 –> 01:38:31,535
was teaching voice at the time

1554
01:38:32,480 –> 01:38:36,260
and which was, like, nobody was singing. Nobody was singing. Nobody was performing.

1555
01:38:36,400 –> 01:38:40,100
I was literally, my job was illegal. Right.

1556
01:38:40,240 –> 01:38:42,900
Yeah. So, like but and,

1557
01:38:44,000 –> 01:38:47,724
you know, to to Yeah. Yeah. Concede a point. I’m no longer

1558
01:38:47,724 –> 01:38:51,405
singing professionally. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. But I

1559
01:38:51,405 –> 01:38:55,085
did buy a music business. So, you know, you just

1560
01:38:55,085 –> 01:38:58,284
pivot. Right? You pivot, and you figure out where am I supposed to be? What

1561
01:38:58,284 –> 01:39:01,719
am I supposed to be doing? A music

1562
01:39:01,719 –> 01:39:05,320
business that did survive COVID somehow. A

1563
01:39:05,320 –> 01:39:08,840
music teaching business, which is just like it was so

1564
01:39:08,840 –> 01:39:12,679
anyway, all that to say is you don’t don’t

1565
01:39:12,840 –> 01:39:16,675
do not despair. If you find yourself being

1566
01:39:16,675 –> 01:39:20,115
a why person and very preoccupied with the shoulds, it’s

1567
01:39:20,115 –> 01:39:23,955
okay. You can you can not only, like, let that

1568
01:39:23,955 –> 01:39:26,755
rattle around, and then you can let it go and then move on to the

1569
01:39:26,755 –> 01:39:30,280
what’s, but you can also bring it and so that they team up together. And

1570
01:39:30,280 –> 01:39:34,120
then, you know, with your powers combined, you can do many, many good

1571
01:39:34,120 –> 01:39:37,900
things. Well and and for all the what people out there,

1572
01:39:41,080 –> 01:39:44,600
ruthless forward action will get you places for

1573
01:39:44,600 –> 01:39:48,265
sure. That’s what Napoleon bet on. He bet on ruthless forward action.

1574
01:39:51,205 –> 01:39:54,645
And you will be able to bulldoze over the why people, for

1575
01:39:54,645 –> 01:39:58,105
sure. For sure. For a while.

1576
01:39:58,725 –> 01:40:02,199
For a while. Right. For a while. My

1577
01:40:02,199 –> 01:40:05,960
only word of caution would be the very same

1578
01:40:05,960 –> 01:40:08,460
people that you bulldoze going up the ladder,

1579
01:40:09,960 –> 01:40:13,400
are the ones that you’re going to meet on the way down if you

1580
01:40:13,400 –> 01:40:17,135
slip. And you will slip. You

1581
01:40:17,135 –> 01:40:20,515
will make a mistake. It will happen. And

1582
01:40:21,455 –> 01:40:24,735
the people that you stepped on going up the ladder will kick you a little

1583
01:40:24,735 –> 01:40:28,460
further down, if they can, if you give them the

1584
01:40:28,460 –> 01:40:32,300
opportunity to or if they are provided the opportunity to.

1585
01:40:32,300 –> 01:40:35,260
And, again, this has nothing to do with right or wrong. This is not about

1586
01:40:35,260 –> 01:40:39,020
a moral should or an ethical ought. No.

1587
01:40:39,020 –> 01:40:41,895
That’s just the crabs in a bucket. This is the crabs in the bucket. This

1588
01:40:41,895 –> 01:40:45,514
is just a state of nature. Right? This is who people are.

1589
01:40:48,054 –> 01:40:51,815
Okay. So last turn. Let’s turn the corner here.

1590
01:40:51,815 –> 01:40:53,195
Let’s close out for today.

1591
01:40:56,310 –> 01:41:00,090
I don’t believe anymore well, I I never did anyway,

1592
01:41:00,230 –> 01:41:03,450
but I really don’t believe anymore. I’m not I’m not willing to philosophically

1593
01:41:03,910 –> 01:41:06,810
entertain the idea of, like, personal

1594
01:41:07,430 –> 01:41:10,650
impersonal, unknowable forces that just push on people

1595
01:41:11,315 –> 01:41:14,915
and don’t allow us to, act with

1596
01:41:14,915 –> 01:41:18,675
agency, autonomy, or

1597
01:41:18,675 –> 01:41:22,455
even accountability. I think that that

1598
01:41:23,780 –> 01:41:27,380
that the retreat to that is the sign of a passive aggressive

1599
01:41:27,380 –> 01:41:31,140
individual, and and person who’s looking for a little

1600
01:41:31,140 –> 01:41:34,580
bit of lazy thoughtlessness, the ability to hide and just

1601
01:41:34,580 –> 01:41:37,720
merely exist. And in our time,

1602
01:41:39,355 –> 01:41:42,795
it’s it’s shocking to me the number of thoughtless bureaucrats we have

1603
01:41:42,795 –> 01:41:46,635
who seem to be taken surprise first need

1604
01:41:46,635 –> 01:41:49,614
to be taken by surprise by the return of history.

1605
01:41:51,210 –> 01:41:54,830
Not just great men or if we don’t wanna call them great, just men

1606
01:41:55,050 –> 01:41:58,650
and women in general. They seem to be taken by surprise by the

1607
01:41:58,650 –> 01:42:02,350
people showing up, but they even seem to be taken even worse by surprise

1608
01:42:02,570 –> 01:42:06,170
by the actions of these people, the whats that they are stepping

1609
01:42:06,170 –> 01:42:10,005
into. And they don’t really seem to know how

1610
01:42:10,864 –> 01:42:14,224
to respond. Regular

1611
01:42:14,224 –> 01:42:17,905
people who live regular jobs and work regular lives, who

1612
01:42:17,905 –> 01:42:21,520
understand that if I don’t get up and do something, nothing happens,

1613
01:42:21,520 –> 01:42:23,680
which by the way, I used to say it when I was a very young

1614
01:42:23,680 –> 01:42:26,580
entrepreneur. If I don’t get up every day and do something,

1615
01:42:27,760 –> 01:42:28,900
nothing happens.

1616
01:42:31,375 –> 01:42:35,135
That’s it. Like, that’s the metric of success. Regular people

1617
01:42:35,135 –> 01:42:37,695
who understand this get it.

1618
01:42:41,614 –> 01:42:45,310
But our leaders our leaders haven’t gotten that lesson for a

1619
01:42:45,310 –> 01:42:48,989
while or maybe thought they were too sophisticated to need to review

1620
01:42:48,989 –> 01:42:52,430
it. But I think I think the lesson is, I think the

1621
01:42:52,430 –> 01:42:56,270
lesson’s returning, just in time for the next great

1622
01:42:56,270 –> 01:43:00,005
turning in the West, which I

1623
01:43:00,005 –> 01:43:03,685
think we’re right on the cusp of. I wouldn’t necessarily call it a

1624
01:43:03,685 –> 01:43:06,185
golden age because I have no idea what it will look like,

1625
01:43:07,364 –> 01:43:11,205
but it is going to be something totally

1626
01:43:11,205 –> 01:43:14,619
different than what we just went

1627
01:43:14,619 –> 01:43:18,460
through. So that’s my

1628
01:43:18,460 –> 01:43:22,300
close. That’s my final thoughts. We start this part of the count

1629
01:43:22,300 –> 01:43:26,139
of Monte Cristo. When we return in our next episode on

1630
01:43:26,139 –> 01:43:29,785
the count of Monte Cristo, we’ll talk about Edmond Dante climbing

1631
01:43:29,785 –> 01:43:33,305
out of that dungeon. A crazy religious

1632
01:43:33,305 –> 01:43:37,065
man claims to have some money. And what happens when the

1633
01:43:37,065 –> 01:43:38,205
two of them get together?

1634
01:43:41,305 –> 01:43:42,525
It’s gonna be lit.

1635
01:43:44,690 –> 01:43:48,050
Lit. As the kids tell me they say these

1636
01:43:48,050 –> 01:43:51,410
days. Kristen, final thoughts as

1637
01:43:51,410 –> 01:43:53,590
we as we close out today.

1638
01:43:57,705 –> 01:44:01,465
I’m very I’m excited. I get like, as much as

1639
01:44:01,465 –> 01:44:05,305
we’ve had two two what is it? Four hours four

1640
01:44:05,305 –> 01:44:09,145
hours now of this conversation Yeah. Before this next part is, like, my

1641
01:44:09,145 –> 01:44:11,245
favorite. So I’m just like, yes. Let.

1642
01:44:14,260 –> 01:44:17,400
Gonna be off the chain, as I said, back in my day.

1643
01:44:19,460 –> 01:44:23,140
Back in the nineteen hundreds. I mean, yeah. I’ve definitely got,

1644
01:44:23,140 –> 01:44:26,980
like, part of like, intellectually, I’m like, yeah. This stuff is all really cool,

1645
01:44:26,980 –> 01:44:29,645
but where’s Dante? Like, where’s

1646
01:44:30,665 –> 01:44:34,445
That’s definitely part of the romantic. Be like, but the main character

1647
01:44:38,264 –> 01:44:40,960
Well, we set him for a bit. I mean, he had to what I was

1648
01:44:40,960 –> 01:44:44,640
saying but but but Dumont is building a world here. Right? He’s in a

1649
01:44:44,640 –> 01:44:48,400
world building in a world building mode. So even though he’s

1650
01:44:48,400 –> 01:44:52,160
building a world that everybody knows or everybody has a at

1651
01:44:52,160 –> 01:44:55,905
least his time, Everyone would have had their historical memory. He still has

1652
01:44:55,905 –> 01:44:58,725
to take the time to do the work of the writer, the work of the

1653
01:44:58,784 –> 01:45:02,625
creative to build this world. And I appreciate it. Honestly I

1654
01:45:02,625 –> 01:45:06,465
remember, hearing one of my friends took it upon himself

1655
01:45:06,465 –> 01:45:10,130
to read Moby Dick. And he was telling

1656
01:45:10,130 –> 01:45:13,810
me that, you know, since at the time when Dickens was

1657
01:45:13,810 –> 01:45:17,490
writing it, nobody knew anything about Melville. The ocean

1658
01:45:17,650 –> 01:45:20,150
sorry. I’m so sorry. Melville. That’s okay.

1659
01:45:21,705 –> 01:45:25,264
I said Dickens. I was like, is that Dickens? Anyway It’s Melville.

1660
01:45:25,545 –> 01:45:29,065
When when Melville was writing, nobody knew anything

1661
01:45:29,065 –> 01:45:32,824
about, like, the ocean or marine biology or anything. Like,

1662
01:45:32,824 –> 01:45:36,660
we didn’t have just this inundation of knowledge.

1663
01:45:37,120 –> 01:45:39,700
And so that all had to go with the book

1664
01:45:41,280 –> 01:45:45,040
to, like, set it up because otherwise That’s where

1665
01:45:45,040 –> 01:45:48,815
you get, like Nobody keep, like like, chapters upon chapters about descriptions

1666
01:45:48,815 –> 01:45:52,175
of whales, and you’re like, you in a modern reader, you read that, and you’re

1667
01:45:52,175 –> 01:45:55,635
like, oh, dear god. Like, why Why is there an encyclopedia here?

1668
01:45:55,855 –> 01:45:59,695
Right. Right. So, I mean, it’s and there’s a little bit of

1669
01:45:59,695 –> 01:46:03,430
that in in Cona Montecristo as well just because of the way you

1670
01:46:03,430 –> 01:46:07,110
had to set it up for the readers of the time. Right. Yep.

1671
01:46:07,110 –> 01:46:10,870
Well, you also see that in a war and peace, with,

1672
01:46:11,030 –> 01:46:14,630
with Tolstoy. And and and, actually, it’s not really as

1673
01:46:14,630 –> 01:46:17,645
deep in war and peace as it was in, Anna Karenina,

1674
01:46:18,824 –> 01:46:22,425
which I think is actually a better novel than War and Peace, but that’s

1675
01:46:22,425 –> 01:46:26,184
either here nor there. I don’t know if I consider War and Peace a

1676
01:46:26,184 –> 01:46:29,945
novel. It is. It’s a world. That’s what it

1677
01:46:29,945 –> 01:46:33,730
is. And then you also see that a

1678
01:46:33,730 –> 01:46:37,570
little bit with, with Dostoevsky in, in

1679
01:46:37,570 –> 01:46:41,250
the brothers, Caramazov, which we’re going to we’re gonna cover

1680
01:46:41,250 –> 01:46:44,770
this this year on the, we’re gonna go into that. We’re gonna go into that,

1681
01:46:45,855 –> 01:46:49,395
I’m gonna fall down that abyss. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It was with Dostoevsky

1682
01:46:49,614 –> 01:46:52,815
down there. That’s a good word for it. Yeah. I’m I’m taking somebody else with

1683
01:46:52,815 –> 01:46:56,495
you. I’m not taking you with me on that one. Yeah. Thanks. I’ll

1684
01:46:56,495 –> 01:46:59,155
probably be in my own abyss. It’s called postpartum.

1685
01:47:00,095 –> 01:47:03,900
Somebody somebody else has volunteered to go down that rabbit hole with me. You

1686
01:47:03,900 –> 01:47:06,719
know? You don’t need to you don’t need to sign up for that.

1687
01:47:07,739 –> 01:47:11,579
Good. Well Yeah. Alright. Well, yes. Like

1688
01:47:11,579 –> 01:47:14,614
I said, when we when we come back, we’ll we’ll turn the corner, and we

1689
01:47:14,614 –> 01:47:17,995
will talk about, we’ll talk about Edmund Dantes and,

1690
01:47:19,255 –> 01:47:22,395
yeah, what it’s like to be in a in a dungeon, you know,

1691
01:47:23,735 –> 01:47:24,955
in, in France

1692
01:47:27,469 –> 01:47:30,850
in the early, in the early nineteenth century.

1693
01:47:32,110 –> 01:47:35,890
Alright. I’d like to thank Kristen Horn for coming on our podcast

1694
01:47:35,949 –> 01:47:39,730
today. Always a pleasure. Yes. And with that,

1695
01:47:39,870 –> 01:47:42,534
well, we’re

1696
01:47:45,234 –> 01:47:45,419
out.