Leadership Lessons From The Great Books – The Declaration of Independence and Leadership w/ Dorollo Nixon, Jr.

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this

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is the Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode

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number 113. With

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our document today, the short

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piece of writing that set the tone for

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the myths the founding myths of America

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and simultaneously acted as a shot across the

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bow of the entire Western European world of the

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late 18th century. A document that

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has become over the long course of time, almost 250

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years, a much quoted exclamation of

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human principles from would be revolutionaries

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all the way to totalitarian dictators. They

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all, to a man and a woman, and yes, I’m looking at

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you, Eva Peron, quote extensively

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from these August words. As

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a matter of fact, I’m willing to bet that if this whole current

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fourth turning that we are in doesn’t quite work out

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in the positive for the west in general and for the United

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States in particular, that we will still all be chasing

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the sentiment, if not the actual voice of these words,

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until Jesus himself even returns.

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Today, we will analyze, as we do every year in the

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month of July, the declaration of independence

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by Thomas Jefferson and the rest of his crew of the

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founding fathers of the United States of America.

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And, of course, we’re going to be doing this on the podcast today

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with our regular cohost,

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guest co host, during the month of July, a month that 1 of

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my other guest co hosts essays, belongs exclusively to

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him, Dorollo Nixon Junior Esquire.

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Welcome back to the podcast, Dorollo.

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Good morning, everyone. How are you? Good. How was your I mean,

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we’re already a little bit past July 4th when we’re recording this, but how was

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your July 4th? It’s great. It’s great, day

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itself and a great weekend. It was

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basically, family focused, and we don’t

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do fireworks. Oh, okay. Not that we’re

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adverse to them. Mhmm. It’s not really our thing. But, anyway so, you

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know, we see the massive tent set up in parking lots in Phoenix, Arizona

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Mhmm. You know, where we live, where people are, you know, buying their fireworks.

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But I will hear some, you know, being shot off by the neighbors.

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But this year, the story was about the heat. So we spent part of the

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weekend in Prescott, Arizona, which is not spelled the way it’s

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pronounced. Is the former capital of the territory of Arizona.

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Mhmm. And so it has an older set an older

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infrastructure, but it happens to sit above where

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Denver sits in terms of elevation. Oh. And thus,

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we shaved about 15 to 20 degrees off of the heat.

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And so we got to get up there with the kids, and there was a

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festival that was quite enjoyable. So That’s awesome. How was yours?

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I watched the fireworks from my backyard, which is great.

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And my kids got into the pool, which is also great.

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And now currently, this will date this

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podcast a little bit. Hurricane Beryl

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has now officially fallen upon land in Texas and

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Houston is being flooded out, which is nowhere near where I live. That’s like 5

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hours away, but the rain coming off of the

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hurricane has reduced the temperature by about 20 degrees.

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The story here is the heat as well. It’s

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103 degrees in the shade. We just call that July

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in Texas. So yeah.

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But, yeah, it was nice watching the fireworks from my from my backyard.

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And, actually, I’m getting ready to move out into the county out

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of the city. And so the shenanigans will be even more

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outrageous next year. So it’s going to be great.

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It’d be fabulous. Yep. By the way, you said you’re not

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a fireworks guy. That’s a little weird to me. How did you never get the

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fire bug as a kid? How did that never happen to you?

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I always saw them as kids and it was fine. See him at

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baseball games, see him, you know, 4th July or whatever.

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New Year’s and 4th July, I guess, are the big times of the year when

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they would go off. We wouldn’t really watch them for New Year’s, but for 4th

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July, we certainly would. We would travel downtown, and I and I remember that.

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And I can picture it right now, actually, in Rochester, New Book. The games you

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have to play where you have to park and you get good visibility. I

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remember all of that. But, frankly, I don’t I don’t

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know. It’s just, you know, post

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college, probably even during college. It just it wasn’t my thing. And then, of course,

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as you know, I spent most of the decade almost half the decade

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after that living abroad. And so fireworks are a little different in other parts of

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the world. Yeah. And, you know, they still go off. You see,

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you know, the New Year celebrations throughout the globe. Everyone, you know,

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popularizes. Not even the case for being visible

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to nonresidents, I would say, 15 years

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ago, 20 years ago. But yeah. So I

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don’t know. It’s just it it’s funny. You know? But

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it’s definitely a turning. And, you know, I’d be more

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inclined to fire up model rockets than fire up

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fireworks. Right. You know, we’ll see how that changes through

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fatherhood. Right? So Yeah. Well, I will say that my boy,

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my youngest, he, he we usually go over to

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friends’ houses, out in the county and light off fireworks. And he

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is, he is quite enamored with the idea

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of, and the practice of lighting it and then turning,

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screaming away.

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That’s it goes off

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in a blaze of glory. And then he turning, he goes, oh, and then he’s

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like, he’s writers back at it. So he’s, you know,

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book into it again. So, you know, Hey, look, you know what? And then I

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sit by the fire and I do nothing and it’s great. I have no responsibility

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there whatsoever. So other than making sure that my kid doesn’t, like, light on fire.

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Yes. Because you live in the county. Because I live in the county.

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Yeah. Well, and it’s it’s interesting because, like you

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can it is literally still the Wild West in Texas when it comes to like

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the county versus the city. And so you can do whatever you

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want in the county. Like nobody’s there’s no rules. You can literature build whatever

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you want. There’s no code in the county, which is a whole other

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kind of dynamic that, you know, I

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don’t even want to get into. But it, it creates

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challenges when you’re trying to buy a home or build a home. But anyway,

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you know, it’s the pursuit of happiness, right? To each right zone. Yeah.

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Exactly. And, you know, if you don’t wanna conform to, like,

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GFIC codes on your electrical outlets and your house might burn down, yeah,

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who cares? That’s a decision you made. Welcome

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to the county. Exactly. So

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Yeah. It’s, I think Arizona shares

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that where there’s certainly a city county

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dynamic, without a doubt. And, you know,

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we live in the largest city in Arizona, which also happens to be the

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6th largest city in the country. But anyway,

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it’s definitely that dynamic. But the notion that, hey,

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You’re in the county, so you’re just gonna do things how you want.

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Yeah. That’s definitely an Arizona thing. It’s definitely in the

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DNA, and yet there’s this a few twists

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that make Arizona Arizona. And so

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I think the county stuff is more high strung here than in

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Texas. Yeah. My sense of Texas,

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is that there’s a whole lot of county.

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But when it comes to county, people are all pretty much walking in the same

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direction. Whereas when it comes to county in Arizona, any

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direction at all. Any direction at all? What really

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intrigues me is that even in the

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city, people who are actually from here, which is not us and not

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very many people we know, You know, most of the people we know

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and and engage with and interact with aren’t from here. We do have some

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good friends. I some actually quite close who are from here who are raised here.

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But Yep. Most of the people we interact with are also

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incomers. Right? So the

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ability of people from Arizona to accept what

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somebody else is doing Mhmm. Whether or not it affects them

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because there’s an Arizona mental mentality that is really you’re just doing your

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own turning, and everybody accepts it. And it fascinates me because I’m not used to

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that. I’m used to you fall

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on 1 side of the aisle over the other, and you’re hostile to the people

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on the other side, and that’s it. That’s it. And so when you’re socializing,

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there’s no general, you know,

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embrace of, you’re doing something different or just none

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of that. It’s what’s wrong with you, XYZ. And it doesn’t

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matter which side you’re on. The the phraseology seems,

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if that’s a word, seems to be the same. The the diction is the same.

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The word choice is the essays, And it’s just switching of

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issues or values or what have you. So Yeah. It’s something refreshing about

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Arizona. Okay. That people genuinely seem to be,

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you know, accepting of,

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the idea that people are going to come here and live the way they wish,

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and that’s it. Well You know?

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So The pursuit of happiness. The pursuit of happiness. Well, we’re let’s, let’s get into

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the pursuit of happiness. Let’s, let’s get into the

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declaration of independence.

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On July 2nd 17/76, Congress voted to

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dissolve the connection between this country and Great Britain, declaring

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the United Colonies of North America to be free and independent states

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In congress, July 4, 17 76, the

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unanimous declaration of the 13 United States of America.

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When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for 1 people to dissolve

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the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the

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powers of earth the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and

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of nature’s God entitle them. A

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decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which

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impel them to separation.

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We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created

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equal, that they are endowed by their creator with certain

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inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty,

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and the pursuit of happiness. Now to secure these

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rights, governments are instituted among men deriving their

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just powers from the consent of the governed.

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That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it

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is the right of the people to alter or abolish it and to institute

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new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its

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powers in such form as to them shall seem most likely to affect their

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safety and happiness. Prudence indeed

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will dictate the governments long established cannot be changed toward light

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and transient causes. And accordingly, all experience has

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shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer while evils are

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sufferable than to writers themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are

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accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and

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usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a

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design to reduce them under absolute despotism, It is their right. It

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is their duty to throw off such government and to provide new guards for

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their future security. Such has been the patient sufferance

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of these colonies and such as now the necessity which constrains them to alter

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their former systems of government. The history

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of the present turning of Great Britain is a history of repeated

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injuries and usurpations, all having indirect object

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the establishment of an absolute tyranny over these states.

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To prove this, let facts be submitted

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to a candid world.

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Those are the iconic first couple of

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paragraphs of the declaration of independence. There’s several

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things in there that I wanna talk with DiRolo about today. Several different

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ideas that are wrapped up in here that, do

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indeed make the declaration of independence. The

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number 1. Well, it’s a mission statement,

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or even vision statement, actually vision statement of a country. And

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I do believe firmly, as I said in the opening there, that we

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Libby be quoting these words all the way until Jesus returns.

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There’s something that rings out about the ideas that are

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embedded deeply in the declaration of independence that stirs the heart of

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the totalitarian and stirs the heart of the revolutionary

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and stirs the heart of the patriot all at the same time.

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It has been said by others not from the united states,

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that our culture our governmental operations and

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even our approach to citizenship is driven by

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species of irrational chaos most

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recently the canadian author speaker and podcaster and clinical

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psychologist, Doctor. Jordan Peterson, said this. He said,

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never bet against Americans, man. They look like a chaotic, screaming

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mess down there. But eventually, they make the right decision. Then they

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go in a direction and they act.

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Never bet against the Americans. Close

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quote. By the way, in not betting

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against the Americans, Doctor. Peterson moved his family

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to Tennessee and then to Florida most recently within the

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last few years. Now, he wasn’t the first

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person from somewhere else to note the chaos of

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Alexander de Tocqueville noticed Tom, many years

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before him and, of course, wrote about the dangers of such a

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revolutionary fervor And what democracy might turn

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into particularly in light of another revolution that was happening

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in another part of the world where guillotine was involved

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The declaration of independence in the US Constitution have survived almost

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250 years of good times, bad times, and even our own

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mediocre and unserious times. And the language of

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the declaration of independence, of course, has inspired

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revolutionaries and writers and of course leaders

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Now we are a leadership podcast, but we’re also a literature podcast And of course

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the declaration of independence is a great piece of literature.

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As a matter of fact, if you haven’t listened to my full reading of it,

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which, I release every July 4th, you should go do

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that. By the way, it’s got a little Philip Sousa music

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behind it. Stars and Stripes Forever, I believe, is what it is.

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But I want to get de Rolo on because, de

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Rolo’s mind, the mind of a historian, the mind of a legal scholar is going

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to look at this document through a little bit of a different lens. And so

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let’s just start off with those first couple of paragraphs of the Declaration of

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Independence. Where

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legally well, no. Let’s start off with this. What can we

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take from the declaration of independence in the year 2024

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with everything that we’ve got going on, in our

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in our time. And by the way, this is the 248th year of the declaration

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of independence, 2026, if we make

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it that far and don’t blow up the republic, which that’s always a risk.

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2026 will be the 250th year

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of the Declaration of Independence. And I can’t think of anybody

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more likely to put on a big show than Donald

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J. Trump without twerking or drag

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queens or story hours or any of that kind of nonsense or, you know,

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a bunch of people telling us how terrible we are from the founding.

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So I think those are your 2 options, by the way, in the upcoming elections

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this year. So if you want a good party Tom party 2

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years from now, vote Trump. If you want something that’s not a good

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party, vote for whoever’s gonna come out of that bacteria fourth that they’re working

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through for their new party. But with

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all that being said, what do you what do you

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think of the document in 2024? What is what does this say to us now?

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Does it does it even have any meaning? Like, why are we even still

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bothering this? So you don’t wish to talk about that segue

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from George Orwell’s 1984, which was the COVID

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experience Tom the Manchurian Candidate, which is our current

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electoral experience.

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Yes. So to answer your actual question Turns out the truth is stranger than

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fiction de Rolo. Yes. And it but

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it really is. It really is. I’m gonna didn’t I read

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about this? No. I just can’t. No. It can’t be

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happening now. Did I read about this? And then you

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check what you read. Mhmm. And discover, yes, you read about

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it, and their actual script or plan is even worse.

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And it’s unfolding. Unlike the song, it’s

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unfolding on television. Right? Mhmm. The

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revolution will be televised because if they don’t televise it,

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they cannot inoculate, no pun intended, a population

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against the change being foisted on them. But, yes,

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we can draw hope from this document as very many Americans

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have throughout our

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history. And even in adverse circumstances, even when

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ostensibly, they were

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challenging the system. And I think of 2 great Americans,

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my fellow Rashastarian, Frederick Douglass, and I think of

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the reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior to give him

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all of his names and titles, which I like to do.

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I’ll just call him doctor King. I didn’t know him. Too respectful for

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me for that. He’s not merely just

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doctor Martin Luther King Junior or Martin Luther King

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Junior. He’s the reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior.

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Anyway, book of them

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could look and did look to the declaration of independence as a

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document that told them how America should be.

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And then they could look at the status quo and recognize this is not how

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America should be. I read how America should be. I read the truths that are

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self evident just the way Thomas Jefferson stated them.

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Both points that they’re self evident and that he laid out what they

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are is plainly made aware to posterity

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and was at the time what it meant.

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Several clues both within the official text, which

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is congress’ version, as well as Jefferson’s draft with

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his fabulous notes.

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And that’s important for some of those detractors, whatever

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project they’re calling themselves now. But it’s

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important for the detractors, because

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he said what he writers, excuse me, what he

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writers. And the changes that

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congress made to the document communicate that everyone

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understood what he said. And, apparently,

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it either was not politically expedient fourth

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enough people disagreed that they removed stuff that very

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clearly communicates an understanding of what was going

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on. And so, I think that’s important to raise. And

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so in my opinion, thus fourth

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both the end, reveled in the revolution in those, you know,

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August men and women who actually from 250 years later almost

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fourth and people who love the country, are ambivalent about the revolution because it didn’t

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go far enough and fourth decried

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the post revolution attempts

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to preserve an extent and a species of oppression

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that the original form of the document rightly decried.

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So I like that about the document because I think there are documents

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to which people on 2 sides of an issue, 2

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opposite sides of an issue can look to and point to and say, see. I’m

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right. This is 1 of 2 very important documents. An irony, of course, is the

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next 1 is the, US constitution. But,

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and there, the amendment process helps communicate,

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no, they meant what they wrote. That’s why they did this amendment because

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this is what they understood. But that reveals me as both an

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originalist and someone who is textualist

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as an attorney and as a constitutional lawyer, in his

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analysis of that document. So,

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yes, 2024. Fourth,

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This is the DNA of our rebellions right here

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and the justification for it. So it’s right here. You know? And

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so, everyone is on notice because it’s

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there. But everyone, anyone, anyone who loves

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freedom can draw hope from it. Anyone who loves freedom can draw hope from

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it. This is who cannot draw hope from it. Okay?

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The petty tyrants, that’s the worst sort. The big tyrants aren’t the worst sort.

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You stop a big Tom with a bullet. It’s really simple. K? Petty

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tyrants, you can’t because they usually

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are just a number or a cog, a number in a system,

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a cog and a wheel. They’re a bureaucrat and a nameless,

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faceless, Orwellian nightmare to which, god

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willing, we will never wake up in this country and find other than during that

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COVID disaster. Anyway,

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those tyrants cannot look at the those petty tyrants, excuse me, cannot look at the

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declaration of independence and take hope from that, draw hope from that.

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They have to be concerned because they’re reading the truth and knowing that this

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truth will embolden people. Now I think

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to actually analyze the text a little bit, 1 of the master touches

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of Thomas Jefferson and when he wrote this, he was quite young. I believe he

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was 32 years old or something. Something scary like

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that. Okay? 32 years old and his

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sense of human nature was strong enough and clear enough

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of a vision of human nature that he describes how most people

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behave. If this evil can be born, we’ll just tolerate

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it. We will hold our breath or bear down or whatever

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and just deal, and then 1 day

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and we’ll praise god and move on. That’s how most humans behave.

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That’s how most humans survive. But a

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group of men and women decided

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fourth years ago that they were going to risk their fortunes in sacred

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honor because they were not going to put up with this

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evil anymore. And, you know, bravo.

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Bravo to them. We have a country because of them.

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Yeah. We have a country because of them. So

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hope. 1 can draw hope even if 1 is

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critical, even if 1 is justifiably critical of the

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status quo or the system in general, you can still draw hope from this

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document. Yet, if your business is about telling

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other people what to do and not giving them a choice, you should

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be concerned. So

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you you raised 2 points there that are very important, I think.

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1, Jefferson was 32 when he wrote this.

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That’s almost like Michelangelo. I have a statue of him in my

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office of the Pieta, which Michelangelo

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carved when he was like 26, I think, or

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Orson Welles creating Citizen Kane when

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he was 26. Like, there’s there’s certain there’s a certain

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sense that this document

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was 1 of those things that that that comes out of a young man

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almost fully formed. Right. A

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mature, mature older man would not have

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penned these words. I don’t know that Franklin, who was at least

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15 years older than Jefferson, at the

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time of the writing of the Declaration of Independence,

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I don’t know that Franklin would have written these books. A much

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older man would have been a lot more conservative, I think, in their

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fervor. And so I take your point

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where, you know, Jefferson had an understanding of

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human nature, but it was sharpened to the point of

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artistic grace in writing these words.

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Now, there’s a couple of words in here that people stick on

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and and they always do stick on. And we’re going to talk about those

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because you did mention Jefferson’s notes. So originally,

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it wasn’t, you know, the line we hold these truths to be self

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evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their creator with

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certain inalienable rights. Among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of not

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happiness, but the pursuit of property. Right. Or the protection of property.

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Right. Why? And then happiness is

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mentioned again, you know, in talking

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about the the securing of safety

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and I’m Sorrells, not not securing, but that whenever

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any form of government Tom quote from Yes. The declaration becomes destructive

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of these ends. It is the right of people to alter and abolish it, which,

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by the way, every revolutionary, every,

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Patrick Henry type in America loves that loves that line in there. And to

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institute new government laying its foundation on such principle and

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organize its powers in such form as to them shall see most likely to affect

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their safety and happiness.

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Happiness in 17/76 meant

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something different than happiness in 2024, which

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will mean something different in in, you know, if we make it that fourth,

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21, fourth. It means something different then.

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And so

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why happiness rather than property? Property is a little

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more material. Right? But happiness, that’s ethereal. And by the way,

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the declaration doesn’t and I tell this to my kids all the time. The declaration

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doesn’t say you’re going to get happiness. It doesn’t even say that

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you’re going to come close to hitting the target on happiness. It doesn’t even say

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that you have a right to have happiness engaged with you. No, no, no, no,

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no, no, no, no. The declaration makes a bold assertion that the only thing

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you’re guaranteed is the pursuit of it. That’s it. If you get

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it, it’s on you. If you don’t get it, that’s what you find a point

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on it. But sucks to be you.

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We rub up against that. And and so talk about that that idea of happiness

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versus property. Like, where why were those words

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switched? So it’s interesting

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because, I’m trying to

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nail down the exact quote, but

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in his treatise in 1 of his treatises on government, John

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Locke has an expression that

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would have been familiar, in my opinion, to Thomas Jefferson.

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Quote, being all equal and independent, comma, no 1 ought to harm another in

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his life, comma, health, comma, Libby, or comma, or possessions.

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That’s a quote from John Locke, and it’s not the 1 I’m looking

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for. It’s just I think it’s 1

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I think it’s from Locke. It’s definitely Locke in even if he

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didn’t say it. And so

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I think the switch and just to note, I what I

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use, I use the text that’s in Gary Will’s book, Inventing

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America. Okay. Because he has a parallel

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partly parallel text at the end. It’s in an appendix or something that shows

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the version, with Jefferson’s notes, and then it shows congress’s

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version. But neither version shows shows the switch from

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property to happiness. And so

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with the text I deal with, it’s just happiness. And

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I still think happiness is the better well,

456
00:29:08.610 –> 00:29:12.130
I still think happiness is the better construction. I think it’s the the

457
00:29:12.130 –> 00:29:15.750
loftier construction. The only problem

458
00:29:15.890 –> 00:29:16.390
is

459
00:29:19.745 –> 00:29:23.205
when people limit when people either begin

460
00:29:23.345 –> 00:29:27.170
with this phraseology and then make an assumption, I e,

461
00:29:27.170 –> 00:29:31.010
that there are no rights outside of the specific ones expressed

462
00:29:31.010 –> 00:29:34.550
herein, we could get into a problematic

463
00:29:35.085 –> 00:29:37.825
because then they will deny property rights. Right? Mhmm.

464
00:29:39.005 –> 00:29:42.845
I think that implied in what he what

465
00:29:42.845 –> 00:29:46.580
Jefferson writers, our property rights. I also know that

466
00:29:46.720 –> 00:29:50.420
this text is not the only place we need to look Mhmm. For rights

467
00:29:50.560 –> 00:29:54.315
or for human rights that

468
00:29:54.315 –> 00:29:58.155
are propositionally, you know, expressed. This is not the

469
00:29:58.155 –> 00:30:01.935
only place we need to book, and so I don’t have an issue with the

470
00:30:02.019 –> 00:30:04.759
use of happiness, but I I still think it’s a no longer construction.

471
00:30:06.019 –> 00:30:08.360
Because it shows that man is a creature,

472
00:30:09.795 –> 00:30:13.635
has eyes and also has vision that is trying

473
00:30:13.635 –> 00:30:17.475
to do something that is going somewhere. He was he’s trying to do something. He’s

474
00:30:17.475 –> 00:30:21.250
trying to go somewhere. And it’s inerrant in us

475
00:30:21.310 –> 00:30:24.450
that this is our framing. Okay?

476
00:30:26.205 –> 00:30:29.885
That this is our MO as a species. And so, and as a

477
00:30:29.885 –> 00:30:32.605
creature, as a as a creation made in God’s image, this is how we work.

478
00:30:32.605 –> 00:30:35.800
Just like he has vision, we have vision. There you go. So,

479
00:30:37.780 –> 00:30:41.485
the pursuit of happiness implies that man will

480
00:30:41.485 –> 00:30:44.625
be chasing something or building something. Mhmm.

481
00:30:45.565 –> 00:30:48.945
And he has the right to do that. And I think that’s beautiful.

482
00:30:50.690 –> 00:30:54.529
It it expands, the sphere of

483
00:30:54.529 –> 00:30:58.370
protected activity arguably beyond mere property rights. And 1

484
00:30:58.370 –> 00:31:01.414
of the things that used to happen in the English common law,

485
00:31:02.115 –> 00:31:05.634
is very rote or mechanical thinking. And so if something

486
00:31:05.634 –> 00:31:09.315
wasn’t written with the right words, it might be thrown out of

487
00:31:09.315 –> 00:31:13.080
court. Mhmm. Okay? Which still happens now, happens on technical now the

488
00:31:13.080 –> 00:31:16.600
deal with with computer technology, and that is 1 of my bugbears, and it drives

489
00:31:16.600 –> 00:31:20.165
me up. Oh, I’m dealing actually with it right now, frankly. But, anyway,

490
00:31:20.945 –> 00:31:24.545
under the common law, though, it was it was still form

491
00:31:24.545 –> 00:31:27.845
over substance, but it was more fourth of how something was expressed

492
00:31:28.620 –> 00:31:32.320
rather than did you check the wrong box on another screen. Anyway,

493
00:31:33.740 –> 00:31:37.585
pursuit of happiness. I think it was brilliant, but, yeah, there’s no

494
00:31:37.585 –> 00:31:40.725
but. I think it was brilliant. But, yes, it it it

495
00:31:42.865 –> 00:31:46.529
it expands the sphere of rights. It shows that man is a

496
00:31:46.529 –> 00:31:50.370
creature with eyes in his head, but also with a vision in his heart, and

497
00:31:50.370 –> 00:31:53.845
he that man will be pursuing that and that he has the

498
00:31:53.845 –> 00:31:56.825
right, to pursue that. And, of course,

499
00:31:58.165 –> 00:32:00.905
I’m somebody who accepts that,

500
00:32:02.870 –> 00:32:06.410
the use of man in this context implies

501
00:32:06.550 –> 00:32:10.315
women. Mhmm. As you know, here

502
00:32:10.395 –> 00:32:13.995
here’s a, it’s not a parallel text, but a text that was not much older,

503
00:32:13.995 –> 00:32:17.355
less than 200 readers, about a 150 years older than this, the King James version

504
00:32:17.355 –> 00:32:20.870
of the bible. Yep. There are obvious passages say in the New

505
00:32:20.870 –> 00:32:23.450
Testament, so the bit that was more recently written,

506
00:32:24.390 –> 00:32:27.855
talking to brothers and Christians

507
00:32:28.235 –> 00:32:31.935
would imply all this applies to sisters also, meaning applies to women also.

508
00:32:32.875 –> 00:32:36.539
Statements about mankind as a species that Christians

509
00:32:36.919 –> 00:32:40.679
would know from the context, oh, this applied to both sexes

510
00:32:40.679 –> 00:32:43.980
and not just to 1. And then there are other passages that apply to men,

511
00:32:44.235 –> 00:32:48.075
and it’s the same word used in translation, you know, by King

512
00:32:48.075 –> 00:32:51.215
James of Great Britain, his translators. But, anyway Right.

513
00:32:52.500 –> 00:32:55.720
I think similarly here, you know, it’s a 150 years later.

514
00:32:56.420 –> 00:32:59.160
I I don’t believe there was an intention here to deny

515
00:33:00.125 –> 00:33:02.145
women things. And, of course,

516
00:33:04.125 –> 00:33:07.965
someone could show me, for example, from letters of pick

517
00:33:07.965 –> 00:33:11.660
a founding father. Well, let’s pick Thomas Jefferson since he’s the

518
00:33:11.660 –> 00:33:15.500
author. You could show me in his, you know, correspondence that he meant

519
00:33:15.500 –> 00:33:18.615
something else. I would accept that.

520
00:33:19.475 –> 00:33:22.455
But until I’m presented that, that’s not

521
00:33:23.635 –> 00:33:27.200
not my conclusion. My conclusion just you know, here here’s the

522
00:33:27.200 –> 00:33:30.900
other, analogous situation, analogous comparison.

523
00:33:32.195 –> 00:33:35.815
You don’t see the word white in there.

524
00:33:36.835 –> 00:33:40.595
No. 1 of the things progressives love to do is

525
00:33:40.595 –> 00:33:44.330
to say well, he was talking about white men. He only

526
00:33:44.330 –> 00:33:48.010
meant white men. I think he meant what he said, and that’s not what he

527
00:33:48.010 –> 00:33:51.605
said. Right. Further, that bit that was excised

528
00:33:51.825 –> 00:33:55.045
either because of political expediency or because it got voted down,

529
00:33:55.425 –> 00:33:56.885
which Tom not the same thing.

530
00:34:00.230 –> 00:34:03.850
The the words he used there communicate

531
00:34:04.150 –> 00:34:07.825
quite clearly that he understood who was

532
00:34:07.825 –> 00:34:11.125
part of humanity and who wasn’t. It was more usages

533
00:34:11.425 –> 00:34:15.264
than anything else Mhmm. That in his mind

534
00:34:15.949 –> 00:34:19.650
and I don’t say entirely. I say mostly. Usages

535
00:34:19.790 –> 00:34:23.469
in his mind that separated the civilized

536
00:34:23.469 –> 00:34:25.730
from the savage. Mhmm. And so

537
00:34:27.844 –> 00:34:31.145
mostly usage. So, you know,

538
00:34:32.244 –> 00:34:35.900
master masterfully use of of of words and text,

539
00:34:35.900 –> 00:34:39.739
but, yes, happiness. I think, I think that

540
00:34:39.739 –> 00:34:42.320
was the right word choice. I think that was the nobler construction,

541
00:34:43.864 –> 00:34:46.905
and I think they would have been bogged down if he had said property because

542
00:34:46.905 –> 00:34:50.364
when things weren’t someone’s property Mhmm.

543
00:34:50.570 –> 00:34:54.330
The rights would have stopped literally at the border. You know, oh,

544
00:34:54.330 –> 00:34:57.210
is there a contract for this? No. Is there a charter for this? No. Oh,

545
00:34:57.210 –> 00:35:00.625
okay. Do you have a land grant for this? Otherwise, it’s mine. So asserts, you

546
00:35:00.625 –> 00:35:02.625
know, the king of Great Britain. Right.

547
00:35:03.985 –> 00:35:06.485
Versus the idea hang on a minute.

548
00:35:07.825 –> 00:35:11.590
How did you get it? So you claimed using

549
00:35:11.590 –> 00:35:15.350
words it was yours, but we’re here and

550
00:35:15.350 –> 00:35:19.065
you’re not. We got here based on our own funds, and you didn’t give

551
00:35:19.065 –> 00:35:22.744
us anything. Right. We don’t have to listen to you. We’re just going to go

552
00:35:22.744 –> 00:35:26.425
and claim it as ourselves. Right. It’s an empty forest. We’re

553
00:35:26.425 –> 00:35:29.770
going to go claim it as ourselves and did, and then started clearing the land.

554
00:35:29.770 –> 00:35:32.510
And then other people showed up and said, what are you doing in our forest?

555
00:35:32.650 –> 00:35:36.490
That part at least straightforward. But the

556
00:35:36.490 –> 00:35:40.255
notion that somebody across the water could claim something he never saw

557
00:35:41.194 –> 00:35:44.734
that wouldn’t even have been accurately represented on a map because

558
00:35:45.240 –> 00:35:48.990
Tom making skills weren’t there yet for

559
00:35:48.990 –> 00:35:52.610
things that they hadn’t, you know, didn’t have a picture of Mhmm.

560
00:35:52.830 –> 00:35:56.555
Or an accurate picture of, you know. They used to

561
00:35:56.555 –> 00:36:00.395
have, you know, water passages all the way to India. Right. You

562
00:36:00.395 –> 00:36:03.935
know, in India, located out on the map, probably where China was. Like, you know?

563
00:36:05.119 –> 00:36:08.960
Right. But it it’s a very important, I think it’s

564
00:36:08.960 –> 00:36:12.579
an important point. So yes. Mhmm. I I think

565
00:36:12.855 –> 00:36:16.615
we chose a construction. I think it has creating utility in the law,

566
00:36:16.615 –> 00:36:20.375
certainly the law at the time. Yeah.

567
00:36:20.375 –> 00:36:23.940
It’s it’s exciting. You know, I found this

568
00:36:23.940 –> 00:36:27.460
quote in research for

569
00:36:27.460 –> 00:36:31.165
this. Mhmm. Maybe I can find the

570
00:36:31.165 –> 00:36:34.925
Locke quote too. Yeah. There’s another

571
00:36:34.925 –> 00:36:38.720
Locke quote where it’s still not what I’m looking fourth, but

572
00:36:38.720 –> 00:36:41.140
here’s the Churchill quote, which is really cool.

573
00:36:43.359 –> 00:36:47.185
Apparently, he said, I think he said this in, like, 2019 or

574
00:36:47.185 –> 00:36:50.705
something, about the declaration of independence. He

575
00:36:50.705 –> 00:36:54.539
said, it is not only an American document. It

576
00:36:54.539 –> 00:36:58.220
follows on the Magna Carta and the of rights as the 3rd great title

577
00:36:58.220 –> 00:37:01.980
deed that the and then it was the quote that

578
00:37:01.980 –> 00:37:05.285
the liberties of all of the west,

579
00:37:07.025 –> 00:37:10.705
were founded upon. And I find it a fascinating notion

580
00:37:10.705 –> 00:37:14.410
and, of course, that British statesman was half American.

581
00:37:14.410 –> 00:37:17.070
His mother was American. So go figure.

582
00:37:18.250 –> 00:37:21.395
But, and, you know, spent time in the US. Almost got killed in New York

583
00:37:21.395 –> 00:37:25.235
on Fourth Avenue by a taxi. And so you think about

584
00:37:25.235 –> 00:37:28.755
how the worlds might have been different if the young Winston Churchill had been hit

585
00:37:28.755 –> 00:37:32.144
by a truck instead, But book

586
00:37:32.530 –> 00:37:36.290
train, you know, much more certain have died, and thankfully,

587
00:37:36.290 –> 00:37:40.105
it didn’t happen. But, yes, seeing

588
00:37:40.645 –> 00:37:43.385
the words in the context of

589
00:37:45.119 –> 00:37:48.880
other words said by scholars or statesman or others about the same

590
00:37:48.880 –> 00:37:52.099
issues I think is important, because they don’t exist in a vacuum.

591
00:37:52.395 –> 00:37:56.095
Yep. And so very book in, but with that

592
00:37:56.235 –> 00:37:59.215
twist that to me just opens up the whole horizon.

593
00:38:00.680 –> 00:38:04.380
Because if you’re pursuing your happiness, what can’t you do?

594
00:38:05.320 –> 00:38:08.520
Well And there’s a few things you can’t. You’re right. There’s a few things you

595
00:38:08.520 –> 00:38:12.025
can’t. Yeah. Yes. Yep. And they didn’t all

596
00:38:12.025 –> 00:38:13.645
agree on, you know,

597
00:38:15.704 –> 00:38:19.440
legitimate uses of those writers. And

598
00:38:19.440 –> 00:38:22.820
certain places, certain colonies, let’s put it that way, in America,

599
00:38:24.000 –> 00:38:27.575
were more adverse to or

600
00:38:27.575 –> 00:38:31.195
more willing to take action against people

601
00:38:31.335 –> 00:38:35.015
whose happiness, quotation marks, didn’t conform

602
00:38:35.015 –> 00:38:38.780
with what the majority wanted. And, of course,

603
00:38:38.780 –> 00:38:42.540
you know, this is a species of and this is a

604
00:38:42.540 –> 00:38:45.935
species of tyranny that the certainly

605
00:38:45.995 –> 00:38:49.755
foresaw. And you’ll be happy to note that on my little trip to

606
00:38:49.755 –> 00:38:52.650
France, I actually picked up the

607
00:38:53.990 –> 00:38:57.770
first, you know, the first volume

608
00:38:58.069 –> 00:39:01.530
in French because as a French speaker and reader and writer,

609
00:39:01.815 –> 00:39:05.655
I wanted to read this book For quite some

610
00:39:05.655 –> 00:39:09.095
time. In I wanted to read what he actually

611
00:39:09.095 –> 00:39:12.470
said instead of what he translated. He foresaw

612
00:39:12.470 –> 00:39:16.070
continuing racial difficulties in America. Mhmm. And when is the last I

613
00:39:16.070 –> 00:39:19.895
heard anyone say, oh, that’s Tocquevillian. Yeah. Yeah.

614
00:39:19.895 –> 00:39:23.015
He he made these observations and he said, oh, this is where I want to

615
00:39:23.015 –> 00:39:26.695
struggle. Right. Perpetually into the future. They will struggle on this

616
00:39:26.695 –> 00:39:29.850
issue. Well, read what he said. It’s there.

617
00:39:30.550 –> 00:39:33.990
Yeah. Yeah. It’s there. You know? And he was saying

618
00:39:33.990 –> 00:39:37.585
it as a Frenchman, and that distinction

619
00:39:37.585 –> 00:39:40.725
matters because the way

620
00:39:41.345 –> 00:39:44.859
these different European nations that went out and colonized and

621
00:39:44.859 –> 00:39:48.480
encountered other peoples, they didn’t all behave the same way.

622
00:39:48.539 –> 00:39:52.380
Right. The way the Portuguese behaved and the Spanish and the Dutch, okay, and

623
00:39:52.380 –> 00:39:53.839
the English and the French

624
00:39:57.835 –> 00:40:01.375
wasn’t the same. It just wasn’t the same. Yeah. So Yeah.

625
00:40:02.155 –> 00:40:05.390
Happiness. Happiness. Well, speaking of that, let’s,

626
00:40:06.029 –> 00:40:09.549
let’s read from, Mary Stockwell. She,

627
00:40:09.950 –> 00:40:13.605
is, has her doctorate with the Fred

628
00:40:13.605 –> 00:40:17.285
W. Smith National Library for the Study of George Washington at Mount

629
00:40:17.345 –> 00:40:20.740
Turning. Some of her commentary on Thomas

630
00:40:20.740 –> 00:40:23.480
Jefferson. Let’s go to some commentary as we,

631
00:40:24.740 –> 00:40:27.960
back up fourth not back up, but move around

632
00:40:28.339 –> 00:40:32.125
this idea of what the Declaration of Independence is actually doing in its

633
00:40:32.265 –> 00:40:35.665
turning. And I quote,

634
00:40:36.660 –> 00:40:40.420
Martha Washington often recalled the 2 saddest days of her life. The first was

635
00:40:40.420 –> 00:40:44.260
December 14, 17, 99 when her husband

636
00:40:44.260 –> 00:40:47.944
died. The second was January 1801 was in

637
00:40:47.944 –> 00:40:51.565
January 1801 when Thomas Jefferson visited Mount Vernon.

638
00:40:52.025 –> 00:40:55.850
A close friend explained, quote, she assured a party of gentlemen, of

639
00:40:55.850 –> 00:40:59.530
which I was 1, that next to the loss of her husband, Jefferson’s

640
00:40:59.530 –> 00:41:02.750
visit was, quote, unquote, the most painful occurrence of her life.

641
00:41:03.755 –> 00:41:07.355
She had come to dislike Jefferson for his frequent attacks on President George Washington as

642
00:41:07.355 –> 00:41:10.789
a monarchist spent on destroying the rule of the people and a senile

643
00:41:10.930 –> 00:41:14.769
follower of the policies of Alexander Hamilton. Pause for just a

644
00:41:14.769 –> 00:41:18.450
moment here. Proving that nothing that happens in an election year is new in

645
00:41:18.450 –> 00:41:21.825
America. Actually, we might be on better behavior than we were in the

646
00:41:21.825 –> 00:41:25.605
past. Yes. Back to Mary Stockwell.

647
00:41:26.260 –> 00:41:30.020
Jefferson even refused to attend memorial services for the

648
00:41:30.020 –> 00:41:33.815
president saying in private that the, quote, unquote, republican spirit in the nation

649
00:41:33.815 –> 00:41:37.494
might now revive now that Washington was dead and the federalists can no

650
00:41:37.494 –> 00:41:41.070
longer hide behind his heroic image. Such

651
00:41:41.070 –> 00:41:44.430
animosity had not always existed between the 2 men. Instead, they were once friends who

652
00:41:44.430 –> 00:41:48.270
had much in common. Born in 17/43, Jefferson, like Washington, was a

653
00:41:48.270 –> 00:41:52.015
tall redhead from the middling planter class. After attending William

654
00:41:52.015 –> 00:41:55.775
and Mary and studying law, he served in the House of Burgesses. He Tom raised

655
00:41:55.775 –> 00:41:59.475
his status by marrying a wealthy widow, Martha Wales Skelton.

656
00:42:00.660 –> 00:42:04.200
Jefferson considered himself a farmer and spent his life improving his plantations,

657
00:42:04.340 –> 00:42:08.180
especially Monticello, as his Washington cared for Mount Vernon. But it was

658
00:42:08.180 –> 00:42:11.555
in his devotion to the cause of the American Revolution that Jefferson most resembled

659
00:42:11.555 –> 00:42:15.234
Washington. As a member of the Continental Congress, Jefferson was recognized for his

660
00:42:15.234 –> 00:42:18.375
brilliant writing expressed most clearly in the Declaration of Independence.

661
00:42:19.030 –> 00:42:22.330
He later served in Virginia’s assembly, where he ended primogentur,

662
00:42:23.030 –> 00:42:26.570
entail and establish religion, and then later became governor.

663
00:42:27.745 –> 00:42:31.185
Back in the Confederation Congress, he helped draft legislation that opened the west for

664
00:42:31.185 –> 00:42:34.545
settlement. And in 17/84, he was appointed ambassador to

665
00:42:34.545 –> 00:42:38.380
France. Jefferson returned to the United States in November 17

666
00:42:38.380 –> 00:42:42.140
89 to serve as Washington Secretary of State. His troubles with Secretary

667
00:42:42.140 –> 00:42:45.675
of the Treasury, Alexander Hamilton, began almost immediately, Pause once

668
00:42:45.675 –> 00:42:48.735
again, he of the Broadway play.

669
00:42:49.515 –> 00:42:53.150
I wonder what Jefferson would think about that. I think he’d

670
00:42:53.150 –> 00:42:54.690
probably be a little bit out of shape.

671
00:42:58.589 –> 00:43:02.275
Yeah. You’re He’d be furious. Just too

672
00:43:02.275 –> 00:43:06.115
much. He might, he might take

673
00:43:06.115 –> 00:43:09.520
it a little bit, a little bit poorly. I

674
00:43:09.520 –> 00:43:13.120
agree. Back to

675
00:43:13.120 –> 00:43:16.625
Mary Stockwell’s analysis. He questioned

676
00:43:16.625 –> 00:43:20.305
Hamilton’s plan for funding and considered the Bank of the United States

677
00:43:20.305 –> 00:43:23.825
unconstitutional. As the French Revolution grew more violent,

678
00:43:23.825 –> 00:43:27.650
Jefferson continued to support an alliance with against Hamilton who favored close ties with

679
00:43:27.650 –> 00:43:31.250
Great Britain, even him to believe that Hamilton and his federalists were bent on

680
00:43:31.250 –> 00:43:34.954
restoring a monarchy in the United States and that Washington had fallen completely under

681
00:43:34.954 –> 00:43:38.635
their spell. In 17/93, Jefferson

682
00:43:38.635 –> 00:43:42.015
resigned from Washington’s cabinet. Soon, the leader of the Democratic

683
00:43:42.350 –> 00:43:45.950
Republican party, he became vice president in 17 96 and

684
00:43:45.950 –> 00:43:49.550
president in 18 o 1. In his inaugural

685
00:43:49.550 –> 00:43:53.155
address, he called Washington, quote, our first and greatest revolutionary

686
00:43:53.295 –> 00:43:56.895
character whose preeminent services has entitled him to the first

687
00:43:56.895 –> 00:44:00.550
place in his country’s love. Post quote. Back

688
00:44:00.550 –> 00:44:03.990
at Mount Vernon, Martha Washington dismissed Jefferson’s, quote, unquote,

689
00:44:03.990 –> 00:44:07.830
sarcastic remarks, claiming his election was the, quote, greatest

690
00:44:07.830 –> 00:44:10.375
misfortune our nation has ever experienced, close quote.

691
00:44:12.355 –> 00:44:16.115
Jefferson served for 2 terms with the 18 0 3 Louisiana Purchase being his greatest

692
00:44:16.115 –> 00:44:19.450
accomplishment before retiring to Virginia where he died in 18/26.

693
00:44:19.990 –> 00:44:22.890
Few things jump, by the way. Thank you to Mary Stockwell

694
00:44:23.990 –> 00:44:27.575
with the Fred W. Smith Libby on Thomas Jefferson.

695
00:44:27.575 –> 00:44:31.295
A couple of things jump out to me about that.

696
00:44:31.295 –> 00:44:34.994
Number 1, presidential wives have always had opinions.

697
00:44:36.980 –> 00:44:40.020
Mhmm. They always will. Essays will. Most,

698
00:44:40.340 –> 00:44:43.780
women most women with whom I enjoy having a

699
00:44:43.780 –> 00:44:47.585
conversation and certainly the 1 whom I

700
00:44:47.965 –> 00:44:51.645
am happily and of great blessing married, have

701
00:44:51.645 –> 00:44:54.270
opinions and will share. And will share.

702
00:44:55.370 –> 00:44:59.050
And, my wife is just like DiRolo’s wife, not

703
00:44:59.050 –> 00:45:02.665
bereft of opinions herself nor the ability to

704
00:45:02.665 –> 00:45:06.365
share them. So Martha Washington is just continuing

705
00:45:06.425 –> 00:45:08.525
a long, a long tradition there.

706
00:45:10.270 –> 00:45:13.170
And then the other piece that you see there is,

707
00:45:15.230 –> 00:45:18.875
that the beginning of and and we could talk a little bit about this. Thomas

708
00:45:18.875 –> 00:45:22.474
Jefferson really sort of began the

709
00:45:22.474 –> 00:45:25.375
whole artification of America.

710
00:45:27.360 –> 00:45:31.120
First of the formation of the Democratic Republican Party. And

711
00:45:31.120 –> 00:45:34.185
then, you know, how sort of

712
00:45:35.145 –> 00:45:38.905
not Washington’s followers fourth of really kind of began to get

713
00:45:38.905 –> 00:45:42.160
to pull off. And you saw the Whig Party hanging out there and trying to

714
00:45:42.160 –> 00:45:45.280
figure out what was happening. And then of course the Whigs collapsed, you know, the

715
00:45:45.280 –> 00:45:48.640
Whig Party collapsed almost 80 years

716
00:45:48.690 –> 00:45:52.464
literature out of the ashes of the Whig Party rose

717
00:45:52.685 –> 00:45:56.525
the Republican Party, led by led by

718
00:45:56.525 –> 00:45:59.460
that Sorrells gentleman, Abraham Lincoln.

719
00:46:01.040 –> 00:46:04.400
So, you know, the the

720
00:46:04.400 –> 00:46:08.035
challenge of party politics and, you know,

721
00:46:08.194 –> 00:46:11.494
you mentioned it again, Thomas Jefferson was 32 when he penned the Declaration of Independence.

722
00:46:12.355 –> 00:46:15.315
The question I’m going to ask here is not the question that’s on the paper.

723
00:46:15.315 –> 00:46:19.000
I’m going to ask the question. It’s not the question in our script. Did Jefferson

724
00:46:19.140 –> 00:46:22.580
peak too early? Like, was

725
00:46:22.580 –> 00:46:25.080
32 too early for him to peak?

726
00:46:27.375 –> 00:46:29.635
Well, I mean, I don’t think he peaked at 32.

727
00:46:31.775 –> 00:46:35.440
I think he he, I

728
00:46:35.440 –> 00:46:39.200
think he performed well. I think he served I think he served our nation

729
00:46:39.200 –> 00:46:42.560
well. I think he, you know, is 1 of the most critical of the

730
00:46:42.560 –> 00:46:46.255
founders. Now there’s certain things he

731
00:46:46.255 –> 00:46:50.095
wasn’t good at. Right? Mhmm. And so he was actually not a a very

732
00:46:50.095 –> 00:46:53.760
good president. His first term was actually excellent, and his second

733
00:46:53.760 –> 00:46:57.520
term was terrible. Mhmm. And the misfortune of the Jesan term

734
00:46:57.520 –> 00:47:01.120
among them is that it was Jesan. And thus that’s I think he needed to.

735
00:47:01.120 –> 00:47:04.115
He did it with he was brash, offensive. I mean,

736
00:47:04.974 –> 00:47:08.755
let’s just compare tempers. President George Washington’s

737
00:47:08.815 –> 00:47:12.560
temper was literally legendary, And every man

738
00:47:12.560 –> 00:47:16.320
in the room, even in the con they were all afraid of his temper. His

739
00:47:16.320 –> 00:47:19.815
temper was legendary. And it is unimaginable

740
00:47:20.035 –> 00:47:23.395
today that anyone with a temper like that would get

741
00:47:23.395 –> 00:47:27.235
anywhere in the political party system that I believe rightly

742
00:47:27.235 –> 00:47:31.050
you so as a Tom, you know, first term was excellent, second term

743
00:47:31.050 –> 00:47:31.800
was horrendous.

744
00:47:37.265 –> 00:47:40.244
Mhmm. And if you remove

745
00:47:41.184 –> 00:47:44.790
the Louisiana Purchase from the first

746
00:47:44.969 –> 00:47:48.630
Tom, all of a sudden, it dropped. It just kinda like, ah, it’s probably

747
00:47:48.630 –> 00:47:52.010
good. The Louisiana Purchase was legendary.

748
00:47:52.470 –> 00:47:56.234
Mhmm. He saw an opportunity and seized it, and he did something,

749
00:47:56.234 –> 00:47:59.994
and this is slightly controversial. Okay? All of

750
00:47:59.994 –> 00:48:03.600
the greatest presidents will always find some

751
00:48:03.600 –> 00:48:05.460
count constitutional boundary

752
00:48:07.360 –> 00:48:10.100
and transgress it for a purpose

753
00:48:11.115 –> 00:48:14.875
that is either high enough or deep enough or both to warrant that

754
00:48:14.875 –> 00:48:18.575
kind of transgression. Mhmm. And then afterward, they don’t back up.

755
00:48:19.500 –> 00:48:22.640
And then the country evolves as it were. Okay?

756
00:48:23.339 –> 00:48:26.240
Jefferson did this. Washington did it before him.

757
00:48:27.311 –> 00:48:30.595
Jesan did it. Lincoln did it. FDR did it.

758
00:48:31.295 –> 00:48:35.000
They all found something and essays, I’m just gonna

759
00:48:35.000 –> 00:48:38.780
walk over that because XYZ. Mhmm. And we’ve

760
00:48:38.839 –> 00:48:42.515
gone on and survived. And it’s

761
00:48:42.655 –> 00:48:45.715
it’s it’s profound. You know? And so,

762
00:48:46.335 –> 00:48:50.175
what I’m speaking about with respect to Jefferson and Louisiana Purchase is what what authority

763
00:48:50.175 –> 00:48:53.760
did he have to make that purchase? He had literally 0 authority. He had

764
00:48:53.760 –> 00:48:57.540
none. Right. And he did it anyway, and it was the right thing to do.

765
00:48:57.599 –> 00:49:01.440
By the way, Hamilton Hamilton probably would have yelled at him about that, by

766
00:49:01.440 –> 00:49:04.085
the way. Yeah. But it was an epocho,

767
00:49:05.265 –> 00:49:09.105
EP0CHAL, epocho opportunity. And he saw

768
00:49:09.105 –> 00:49:12.930
it saw it for what it was, seized it, and that was it. Mhmm. There

769
00:49:12.930 –> 00:49:16.290
was no going back. There was no undoing it. And then he, you know, followed

770
00:49:16.290 –> 00:49:19.925
up. Oh, I’m gonna send explorers and people who are gonna chart it and whatever

771
00:49:19.925 –> 00:49:22.985
because he literally saw the future. He saw the future,

772
00:49:23.845 –> 00:49:27.445
and he stepped into it. And he forced us to follow him into the future

773
00:49:27.445 –> 00:49:30.350
as he saw it. And they all do that. All the greatest ones do that.

774
00:49:30.350 –> 00:49:33.870
So, yeah, so it’s interesting. I don’t think he peeked too

775
00:49:33.870 –> 00:49:37.395
early. I don’t think he peeked too early.

776
00:49:37.555 –> 00:49:41.315
And in fact, he he was, on the longest Libby of the founding

777
00:49:41.315 –> 00:49:45.155
generation. And is I’m sure you will mention it. Well, you’ll probably mention

778
00:49:45.155 –> 00:49:48.800
it at some point, so I won’t I won’t steal your thunder. But, basically,

779
00:49:49.100 –> 00:49:52.875
throughout that, you know, duration, he

780
00:49:52.875 –> 00:49:56.555
kept up a voluminous correspondence even into old age, something

781
00:49:56.555 –> 00:50:00.015
that Adams thought was crate that John Adams, excuse me, thought was crazy.

782
00:50:00.120 –> 00:50:03.100
Mhmm. President Adams, did not do that

783
00:50:03.720 –> 00:50:07.565
and knew, I think, as a very skilled lawyer, he knew how to put off,

784
00:50:07.645 –> 00:50:11.165
you know, attention seekers or people even with

785
00:50:11.165 –> 00:50:14.685
earnest opinions with whom we did not wish to deal. And

786
00:50:14.685 –> 00:50:18.200
TJ, that was not his MO.

787
00:50:18.660 –> 00:50:22.360
He would literally respond and spend hours a day just on correspondence

788
00:50:22.820 –> 00:50:26.575
into old age. It’s profound. But, anyway, I don’t think he

789
00:50:26.575 –> 00:50:30.095
peeked too early. I certainly not as an

790
00:50:30.095 –> 00:50:33.850
architect of our political party system. Mhmm. His political

791
00:50:33.850 –> 00:50:37.450
party still exists. They still exist.

792
00:50:37.450 –> 00:50:41.290
My political party was in the 18 fifties. His political party

793
00:50:41.290 –> 00:50:44.705
was not, and it still exists. Right. And

794
00:50:44.705 –> 00:50:48.485
that it to me, that’s genius. It’s genius.

795
00:50:48.865 –> 00:50:52.430
And when you study the details, 1 of the things that’s shocking as you indicated,

796
00:50:52.430 –> 00:50:56.270
like, oh, elections nowadays are Tom. They are. And in part, it’s

797
00:50:56.270 –> 00:50:59.445
because there’s 2 rules. Right. Anyway,

798
00:51:02.307 –> 00:51:05.850
book then, the stuff that they would do, like, it’s basic

799
00:51:06.090 –> 00:51:09.710
okay. So, basically, similar to, British parliamentary

800
00:51:10.250 –> 00:51:14.005
elections, of the Tom, Who the elector you’re

801
00:51:14.005 –> 00:51:17.605
basically courting a fraternity, pun intended. And so

802
00:51:17.605 –> 00:51:20.744
there was the drinking and the shenanigans just like with

803
00:51:21.125 –> 00:51:24.760
very many fraternities. And instead of

804
00:51:24.760 –> 00:51:28.520
charity that they’re also doing to justify their existence, there was government. Even

805
00:51:28.520 –> 00:51:32.115
better. Right? Right. Legitimate use of political authority

806
00:51:32.415 –> 00:51:36.015
in a coercive manner right after a frat party. Awesome. But,

807
00:51:36.015 –> 00:51:39.730
anyway, that’s that was literally the system. And so for Jefferson courting electors,

808
00:51:39.730 –> 00:51:42.310
it’s like, great. You know, we’re coming to a park, and here are the Sorrells

809
00:51:42.370 –> 00:51:44.530
of beer. You’re gonna drink all day, and then we’re gonna take you for their

810
00:51:44.530 –> 00:51:48.265
vote. You know, literally. It’s literally how it functions. It’s

811
00:51:48.265 –> 00:51:51.865
absolutely astonishing. Absolutely astonishing. But,

812
00:51:52.700 –> 00:51:56.539
he was a he was a master hand at that. And so many

813
00:51:56.539 –> 00:51:59.920
of the nasty tricks or tactics

814
00:52:00.299 –> 00:52:04.015
used today, Mhmm. He used. He knew how

815
00:52:04.015 –> 00:52:07.475
to use the media. He knew how to find

816
00:52:07.535 –> 00:52:11.270
proxies to voice his opinion. He knew how to he knew how

817
00:52:11.270 –> 00:52:14.330
to cache. He knew how to do lots of stuff.

818
00:52:16.150 –> 00:52:19.835
And it’s it’s astounding. Right? But

819
00:52:19.975 –> 00:52:23.255
to me, it shows that, you know, politically, he was certainly a genius. He wasn’t

820
00:52:23.255 –> 00:52:27.070
the best political leaders. That’s certain. But, sorry. He wasn’t the best

821
00:52:27.950 –> 00:52:31.710
president. I don’t know if he was the governor of Virginia.

822
00:52:31.710 –> 00:52:35.310
He was a very good founding governor, though. He was very good

823
00:52:35.310 –> 00:52:39.085
himself with architecture, and so he understand how to set up the architecture

824
00:52:39.145 –> 00:52:42.765
of of a state and did. You know? 1 of his greatest works,

825
00:52:42.825 –> 00:52:46.660
it’s after the, you know, declaration of independence was,

826
00:52:46.660 –> 00:52:50.420
you know, his founding of the state of Virginia, basically, and then his notes on

827
00:52:50.420 –> 00:52:54.105
the founding of the state of Virginia. Yeah. And so

828
00:52:54.165 –> 00:52:58.005
I I don’t think he peaked too early. I don’t

829
00:52:58.005 –> 00:53:01.609
I don’t think he peaked too early. I just think that there were certain parts

830
00:53:01.609 –> 00:53:05.310
of politics that because of his temperament, he was just bad at,

831
00:53:06.935 –> 00:53:10.455
bad. You know? And there are others whose temperaments were

832
00:53:10.455 –> 00:53:13.895
also not well suited for what they did. Like an Adams, for

833
00:53:13.895 –> 00:53:17.690
example. Don’t give that man his way. He’s

834
00:53:17.690 –> 00:53:21.369
just a nightmare Mhmm. Other than someone who could say, okay. So let’s make a

835
00:53:21.369 –> 00:53:24.509
deal. Mhmm. Wasn’t who he was. That wasn’t John Adams.

836
00:53:27.115 –> 00:53:30.875
With Jefferson, I don’t know if that was the deal. He was actually good

837
00:53:30.875 –> 00:53:34.529
with relationships. It’s interesting that of the

838
00:53:34.529 –> 00:53:37.910
founding fathers about whom the founding mothers

839
00:53:38.049 –> 00:53:41.670
spoke, Jefferson is 1 where they spoke about him,

840
00:53:41.914 –> 00:53:45.134
and it was literally like heaven or hell.

841
00:53:45.835 –> 00:53:49.214
It was either this is the most amazing man

842
00:53:49.398 –> 00:53:53.210
fourth this is the devil. And not anything

843
00:53:53.270 –> 00:53:56.730
in between at all. You know, the only thing that is close

844
00:53:57.190 –> 00:54:00.045
in my recollection is how,

845
00:54:01.145 –> 00:54:03.645
president Washington was universally lauded. Universe

846
00:54:05.225 –> 00:54:09.069
universally lauded, and I think justifiably so. But

847
00:54:09.069 –> 00:54:12.529
after him, I think the 1 about whom they had

848
00:54:12.829 –> 00:54:16.635
the opinions, the founding mothers Mhmm. It was Jefferson. And it was

849
00:54:16.635 –> 00:54:20.154
either it was, you know, night or day. It was

850
00:54:20.154 –> 00:54:23.910
either sunshine or torrent or hurricane.

851
00:54:24.130 –> 00:54:27.810
A hurricane. Right? Yes. An

852
00:54:27.810 –> 00:54:31.464
angel or the devil. You know? Oh, welcome.

853
00:54:31.464 –> 00:54:35.305
We’re happy to welcome you back or get the expletive off of my

854
00:54:35.305 –> 00:54:39.140
land. It was 1 of the other, and that was it. That was it. You

855
00:54:39.140 –> 00:54:42.900
know? And so, yeah, those were my thoughts. I don’t think he

856
00:54:42.900 –> 00:54:46.555
peaked too early. Well, I think okay. So I think I

857
00:54:46.555 –> 00:54:50.075
think Jefferson probably had other than Louisiana Purchase and the Lewis and

858
00:54:50.075 –> 00:54:53.055
Clark expedition, which kind of book those things go together.

859
00:54:54.075 –> 00:54:57.640
And by the way, like, to to your point, I think

860
00:54:57.640 –> 00:55:01.400
that Jefferson recognized that not only could he

861
00:55:01.400 –> 00:55:04.920
double the size of the United States with a pen stroke, but

862
00:55:04.920 –> 00:55:08.425
that and that, you know, I don’t it it it’s not

863
00:55:08.425 –> 00:55:11.805
recorded what he thought of Napoleon or Napoleon’s

864
00:55:13.550 –> 00:55:17.310
negotiation skills or the reps. Right. You know, but I think he

865
00:55:17.310 –> 00:55:21.150
probably thought he was helping the French out by giving

866
00:55:21.150 –> 00:55:24.965
them money, And he was able to get them out of

867
00:55:24.965 –> 00:55:28.405
his out of his backyard. Because what a lot of people forget in Louisiana Purchase

868
00:55:28.405 –> 00:55:31.060
deal was Haiti was also, you know, a part of that,

869
00:55:32.480 –> 00:55:36.080
and the release of some of the other, some of the other North American

870
00:55:36.080 –> 00:55:39.755
colonies. And at the time, no 1 knew how deepwater report New

871
00:55:39.755 –> 00:55:43.515
Orleans was. So now you’ve got a deepwater fourth, you’ve got

872
00:55:43.515 –> 00:55:47.000
a navigable river, and you don’t have to fight a bloody war

873
00:55:47.300 –> 00:55:50.660
against somebody who has, clearly shown

874
00:55:50.660 –> 00:55:54.474
military acumen and is running over the British like nobody’s business and giving them

875
00:55:54.474 –> 00:55:58.315
headaches all over the and the Germans or not sort of Germans, the Prussians

876
00:55:58.315 –> 00:56:02.140
at the time and the Russians and everybody else. And so, you know, you’re staying

877
00:56:02.140 –> 00:56:05.500
out of Europe’s business. You’re doubling the size of the

878
00:56:05.500 –> 00:56:09.260
country. How is this a bad thing? Right. There’s there’s no there’s

879
00:56:09.260 –> 00:56:12.935
no downside here. That was how I think he looked at the Louisiana Purchase.

880
00:56:14.755 –> 00:56:18.335
Yep. But then and I was actually talking about something is, views of the west

881
00:56:18.335 –> 00:56:22.130
Tom, But I don’t want to interrupt. Writers. But

882
00:56:22.130 –> 00:56:25.890
I also think of his his

883
00:56:25.890 –> 00:56:27.670
view of the Barbary pirates.

884
00:56:29.645 –> 00:56:33.165
And I think that people don’t give Thomas Jefferson nearly enough

885
00:56:33.165 –> 00:56:36.800
credit. He read the Koran after

886
00:56:37.580 –> 00:56:41.420
after, you know, dealing with a congress that

887
00:56:41.420 –> 00:56:45.194
was consistently paying bribes to the Barbary pirates. He was like, we

888
00:56:45.194 –> 00:56:48.474
gotta go to the root cause of this nonsense. And as a guy with a

889
00:56:48.474 –> 00:56:51.915
library who understood that your root causes could be in books, he

890
00:56:51.915 –> 00:56:55.619
went. He read the Fourth. It was like a

891
00:56:55.619 –> 00:56:59.380
comment, hit him in the head. He goes, oh, wait, we’re never going to be

892
00:56:59.380 –> 00:57:02.980
able to like buy these people off their zealots and

893
00:57:02.980 –> 00:57:06.365
ideologues that I understand. Let’s get the

894
00:57:06.365 –> 00:57:10.065
Marines. Let’s create Marines and let’s just go crush these people.

895
00:57:11.005 –> 00:57:14.740
Then we’ll just move on. And it’s weird

896
00:57:14.740 –> 00:57:18.500
because he’s never given any credit for dealing with the Barbary pirates in that kind

897
00:57:18.500 –> 00:57:22.045
of way. But that put

898
00:57:22.045 –> 00:57:25.585
America on the Islamic culture’s

899
00:57:25.645 –> 00:57:29.005
radar as someone not to be screwed with, as a country not to be best

900
00:57:29.005 –> 00:57:32.440
with, which worked out really well for about a 150

901
00:57:32.500 –> 00:57:36.200
years. Worked out really well, actually, for a 150 years.

902
00:57:36.660 –> 00:57:40.464
Mhmm. Now, of course, you know, they were dealing with

903
00:57:40.464 –> 00:57:43.845
the Ottoman Empire and their own internal struggles with Islam

904
00:57:43.904 –> 00:57:46.569
and da da da da da da da da da da da da da. And

905
00:57:46.569 –> 00:57:50.190
then World War 1 would come along later on much, much later on,

906
00:57:50.970 –> 00:57:54.430
and completely crack apart the Ottoman Empire, which is probably 1 of the greatest geopolitical

907
00:57:56.035 –> 00:57:59.655
tragedies of the, of the 20th

908
00:57:59.714 –> 00:58:03.170
century. Leaders Putin on

909
00:58:03.170 –> 00:58:06.930
Soviet Union collapsing. But I

910
00:58:06.930 –> 00:58:10.770
think when you look at darn it. Well, that’s what Vladimir thinks

911
00:58:10.770 –> 00:58:14.195
was the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century, that the Soviet Union collapsed. He’s

912
00:58:14.195 –> 00:58:17.875
actually said that out loud. Oh, I believe it. It’s very

913
00:58:17.875 –> 00:58:20.835
self serve. Right. It it is. And I don’t I don’t agree with him. I

914
00:58:20.835 –> 00:58:24.590
think the Ottoman Empire collapsing is the greatest geopolitical disaster of the 20th century

915
00:58:25.770 –> 00:58:29.550
that created all the problems that we currently have. Every single 1 of them from

916
00:58:30.055 –> 00:58:33.575
from Lawrence of Arabia all the way up to Hamas and Gaza on October

917
00:58:33.575 –> 00:58:36.535
7th. Like, you wouldn’t you don’t get any of that if you have a solid

918
00:58:36.535 –> 00:58:40.160
power in the Middle East just holding everybody down. You you don’t get

919
00:58:40.160 –> 00:58:43.700
that. Right. Right. Right. And I think Jefferson understood

920
00:58:44.400 –> 00:58:47.875
that you’re not gonna hold those people down. You just have to, like, smack them

921
00:58:47.875 –> 00:58:50.855
so hard they never come over to you and ask you for money ever again.

922
00:58:51.075 –> 00:58:54.615
And then you go home. And that created the Marine Corps.

923
00:58:55.010 –> 00:58:58.850
And, you know, I’m gonna give him credit for that. I’m gonna

924
00:58:58.850 –> 00:59:02.610
give him credit for the marine corps. I think you know what,

925
00:59:02.610 –> 00:59:06.405
though? I think they’re somebody just celebrated their birthday. I think

926
00:59:06.405 –> 00:59:10.164
they’re actually older. He

927
00:59:10.164 –> 00:59:13.660
certainly deployed them. There’s no question about that. I think they’re

928
00:59:13.660 –> 00:59:17.380
actually older. I can’t I can’t think of her name right now. Somebody on

929
00:59:17.579 –> 00:59:21.339
I know on Facebook who is a marine. She’s a, you know, she’s a

930
00:59:21.339 –> 00:59:24.665
marine. Once Marino is a marine, she’s a marine. No. They are.

931
00:59:24.965 –> 00:59:28.085
But you’re right. They don’t give him credit for that.

932
00:59:28.645 –> 00:59:32.480
And, it’s also interesting because it’s an example of a

933
00:59:32.480 –> 00:59:35.540
police action. Right? Mhmm. And, of course, anyone

934
00:59:35.920 –> 00:59:39.625
alive now who’s not 50, that’s basically all

935
00:59:39.625 –> 00:59:43.465
we know of the use of of our military outside

936
00:59:43.465 –> 00:59:46.425
of the United States. It’s a bunch of police actions. What I mean by that

937
00:59:46.425 –> 00:59:49.960
are not wars declared by Congress Right. Like the Constitution

938
00:59:50.100 –> 00:59:53.800
says. What you have is we send troops somewhere.

939
00:59:54.100 –> 00:59:57.925
Oh, Congress sent you know, authorized the money. It’s still not

940
00:59:57.925 –> 01:00:01.704
the same thing. And so the recognition

941
01:00:01.925 –> 01:00:05.285
that, hey. This foreign policy thing here needs to

942
01:00:05.285 –> 01:00:08.990
stop, and the mechanism to stop it is to send

943
01:00:08.990 –> 01:00:12.349
men with guns. Mhmm. Oh, sounds like

944
01:00:12.349 –> 01:00:16.135
war. No. We’re just going to invade a

945
01:00:16.135 –> 01:00:19.815
place and shoot people up and then leave. It’s not a war. Okay,

946
01:00:19.815 –> 01:00:23.650
TJ. Again, you know, like

947
01:00:23.650 –> 01:00:27.330
the great ones, here’s the constitutional line. I’m going to transgress it for this

948
01:00:27.330 –> 01:00:30.690
greater purpose, and I’m not going to back up or apologize. Right.

949
01:00:30.690 –> 01:00:33.425
Okay? And then there you go.

950
01:00:34.445 –> 01:00:38.205
It’s it’s really fascinating, that it seems to be

951
01:00:38.205 –> 01:00:42.040
consistent with them doing stuff like that, but I digress. Well, and

952
01:00:42.040 –> 01:00:45.560
and the and the Yeah. And when he when he went to the credit. He

953
01:00:45.560 –> 01:00:49.160
doesn’t didn’t yeah. Well, when he went to the root cause, and this is what

954
01:00:49.160 –> 01:00:52.924
I admire about Jefferson. He actually had the guts to actually read the words

955
01:00:53.625 –> 01:00:57.244
and take them seriously. Like, this is the only way

956
01:00:57.490 –> 01:01:01.110
only the writer of the Declaration of Independence who believed

957
01:01:02.130 –> 01:01:05.825
the words he was writing would understand the power of words

958
01:01:05.825 –> 01:01:09.125
and ideas to actually move people and change things.

959
01:01:10.065 –> 01:01:13.665
Mhmm. And that the the people who are writing these

960
01:01:13.665 –> 01:01:16.280
words can actually mean them. So when I when I said in my opening that

961
01:01:16.280 –> 01:01:20.060
we we live in a we currently live in a, a mediocre and unserious

962
01:01:20.332 –> 01:01:24.165
Tom, It’s unserious because we’re actually

963
01:01:24.165 –> 01:01:27.845
we’re actually not taking seriously the words that people

964
01:01:27.845 –> 01:01:31.670
write. We’re trying to find all these other meanings and behind what people say.

965
01:01:31.670 –> 01:01:35.186
No, no, no, no, no. Believe them when they say this turning,

966
01:01:35.430 –> 01:01:39.190
when they say Allah Akbar, we want to kill you, and we will

967
01:01:39.190 –> 01:01:42.595
spread our whatever. Believe them. Like, why is this

968
01:01:42.595 –> 01:01:46.435
hard? This is not this is not believe the Iranian Malas

969
01:01:46.435 –> 01:01:50.030
when they say death to Israel. We’re we wanna blow them off the

970
01:01:50.030 –> 01:01:53.790
map. That’s written into our charter. It’s like like, why

971
01:01:53.790 –> 01:01:57.484
why is this hard to believe? Why why do we have to but

972
01:01:57.484 –> 01:02:01.244
that’s the curse of postmodernism, which I think Thomas Jefferson would have had no

973
01:02:01.244 –> 01:02:04.605
truck with whatsoever. Correct. It’s

974
01:02:04.605 –> 01:02:07.579
also, you know,

975
01:02:08.519 –> 01:02:10.779
it goes against progressivist orthodoxy.

976
01:02:11.761 –> 01:02:15.585
Writers? Various points of which include that

977
01:02:15.585 –> 01:02:19.105
people are racist because they’re ignorant. You give them an education, and they won’t be

978
01:02:19.105 –> 01:02:22.785
racist. Now they’ll be well educated racists. Jesan Right. That’s

979
01:02:22.785 –> 01:02:26.569
what you will find. You know? That as time just

980
01:02:26.569 –> 01:02:30.170
goes on, racism will go away. Well, that’s not how slavery

981
01:02:30.170 –> 01:02:33.585
ended. Right. Slavery didn’t just go away until

982
01:02:33.885 –> 01:02:37.245
there was a lot of shooting and a lot of deaths, and it still didn’t

983
01:02:37.245 –> 01:02:41.085
go away. Right. And then there was a presidential fiat. Also,

984
01:02:41.085 –> 01:02:44.830
again, here’s a constitutional line. He transgressed it and didn’t Mhmm. Back

985
01:02:44.830 –> 01:02:48.349
down. Right? A destruction of a

986
01:02:48.349 –> 01:02:52.155
species of property. You got it. But upholding human dignity

987
01:02:52.215 –> 01:02:55.995
and finally setting free my ancestors. Awesome. They still had to take constitution.

988
01:02:56.455 –> 01:03:00.110
Right. So it still didn’t end. It’s this notion that I think

989
01:03:00.110 –> 01:03:03.710
it’s chiefly the notion that, well, I’m not an extremist like them. They

990
01:03:03.710 –> 01:03:07.425
couldn’t really have meant that. And, of

991
01:03:07.425 –> 01:03:11.125
course, well, that echoes for me is

992
01:03:11.265 –> 01:03:14.869
the first ever recorded word. What God said? Yeah. Did God

993
01:03:14.869 –> 01:03:18.630
really say? Yeah. It’s familiar now. Okay? But is that what

994
01:03:18.630 –> 01:03:22.470
you think that they you? Ever you live in

995
01:03:22.470 –> 01:03:26.045
Disney world? You never experience it’s you

996
01:03:26.045 –> 01:03:29.565
know? Disney World, of course, is my my that’s what I mean.

997
01:03:29.964 –> 01:03:33.790
And I I know I’ve used it before. It’s an extremist of all sorts. It’s

998
01:03:33.790 –> 01:03:37.626
already maligned and malignant. And yet

999
01:03:37.626 –> 01:03:41.375
fourth progress so just question of time,

1000
01:03:41.375 –> 01:03:44.355
this all magically goes away, and we become

1001
01:03:45.375 –> 01:03:48.595
whatever we will self actualize into,

1002
01:03:49.370 –> 01:03:52.510
you know, fill in the blank. Basically, a bunch of

1003
01:03:52.890 –> 01:03:56.575
nonsense. Mhmm. And so, the fact

1004
01:03:56.575 –> 01:04:00.355
that TJ could be a hard headed thinker, I think, is,

1005
01:04:01.695 –> 01:04:05.480
likable. I think it’s important. I think it is

1006
01:04:05.480 –> 01:04:09.080
something that, said amazes

1007
01:04:09.080 –> 01:04:12.775
me. If you read the stuff he excised from the the he the stuff he

1008
01:04:12.775 –> 01:04:16.215
wrote in the declaration that was excised about slavery, it’s like, okay. Let’s back

1009
01:04:16.215 –> 01:04:18.955
up. This didn’t come from an abolitionist in Massachusetts.

1010
01:04:20.135 –> 01:04:23.849
Right. The man who wrote it owned slaves till

1011
01:04:23.849 –> 01:04:27.690
he died. He still wrote it, but he wrote

1012
01:04:27.690 –> 01:04:30.510
it and he wrote it that way. And it’s like,

1013
01:04:31.935 –> 01:04:35.775
I don’t know what to think now. Right. This now

1014
01:04:35.775 –> 01:04:38.115
my breath’s taken away. I don’t know what to think.

1015
01:04:39.450 –> 01:04:42.430
Was he that much of a tribute,

1016
01:04:44.250 –> 01:04:46.830
that much of a prophet that he could

1017
01:04:48.924 –> 01:04:52.144
see it for what it was and its profundity over the whole

1018
01:04:52.285 –> 01:04:55.790
system. And the and

1019
01:04:56.430 –> 01:05:00.190
yet human enough that not

1020
01:05:00.190 –> 01:05:03.890
only did he not let his any of his slaves go fourth. Right? But,

1021
01:05:05.335 –> 01:05:08.715
I mean, he had his whole family. He had his whole

1022
01:05:09.255 –> 01:05:12.829
family in a

1023
01:05:12.829 –> 01:05:16.670
very patriarchal sense. He had, you know, this this man and I’m not the

1024
01:05:16.670 –> 01:05:20.349
first person to use the the following Tom

1025
01:05:20.349 –> 01:05:23.775
metaphors, sphinx.

1026
01:05:23.994 –> 01:05:27.595
Mhmm. You know? And literature, this man about

1027
01:05:27.595 –> 01:05:31.340
whom the founding mother said, he’s an angel or the devil, And that’s it. And

1028
01:05:31.340 –> 01:05:35.100
nothing in between. Nothing in between. I I find that profound,

1029
01:05:36.440 –> 01:05:39.994
that, you know, of course, Martha

1030
01:05:39.994 –> 01:05:43.835
Washington had an opinion. I know Abigail

1031
01:05:43.835 –> 01:05:47.535
Adams had opinions because she wrote them to him. Right.

1032
01:05:49.970 –> 01:05:53.350
She wrote the amazing, charming, and relational

1033
01:05:53.490 –> 01:05:55.670
leadership because that’s what I think he really had.

1034
01:05:57.995 –> 01:06:01.275
He was able to get back into the good graces of the Adams family and

1035
01:06:01.275 –> 01:06:04.330
then grow regrow a friendship with

1036
01:06:05.370 –> 01:06:09.210
his, you know, erstwhile political rival. John

1037
01:06:09.210 –> 01:06:12.910
Adams, do you understand that, like, I don’t know how well,

1038
01:06:13.435 –> 01:06:17.275
you know, the late George h w Bush, got on with the still existent

1039
01:06:17.275 –> 01:06:20.715
president Lee Jefferson Clinton. Mhmm. But, the friendship

1040
01:06:20.715 –> 01:06:24.340
between Adams who then lost to Jefferson, that was actually a

1041
01:06:24.340 –> 01:06:27.860
thing. And it’s just like it it it amazes me because

1042
01:06:27.860 –> 01:06:31.555
it’s unimaginable now. Unimaginable. And remember, this

1043
01:06:31.555 –> 01:06:35.234
is Jefferson. Jefferson of the dirty tricks. Jefferson of the

1044
01:06:35.395 –> 01:06:39.175
this newspaper is publishing libelous

1045
01:06:39.234 –> 01:06:41.650
stuff. That Jefferson. Yeah. You know?

1046
01:06:42.750 –> 01:06:46.510
Yet they built a real, they

1047
01:06:46.510 –> 01:06:50.215
built a real friendship, and then it crashed and burnt, and then they

1048
01:06:50.215 –> 01:06:53.895
rebuilt it. And, you know, Jefferson seemed to

1049
01:06:53.895 –> 01:06:57.035
be, you know,

1050
01:06:58.440 –> 01:07:02.140
he he seemed to well, in my recollection,

1051
01:07:02.519 –> 01:07:06.015
the way the the particular book that I’m drawing from from for these

1052
01:07:06.015 –> 01:07:09.775
last comments. Mhmm. The input from Adams

1053
01:07:09.775 –> 01:07:13.395
is what I see more. So, Joseph j Ellis

1054
01:07:13.580 –> 01:07:17.420
book about, Thomas Jefferson, which I was reading from, this

1055
01:07:17.420 –> 01:07:21.115
July 4th. And so, yeah, so I see

1056
01:07:21.115 –> 01:07:24.875
the Adams input, and I I’m I’m certain there was Jeffersonian input as well. But,

1057
01:07:25.195 –> 01:07:28.395
yeah, I did. But III find that fascinating, you know, that they that they were

1058
01:07:28.395 –> 01:07:32.060
able to do that, and then it’s unimaginable. It’s just not unimaginable. It’s not unimaginable.

1059
01:07:32.060 –> 01:07:35.200
Well, it’s it’s well, because they they understood something.

1060
01:07:35.980 –> 01:07:39.825
Well, they understood something that’s outside of, I think, our

1061
01:07:39.825 –> 01:07:43.665
understanding today. And I don’t

1062
01:07:43.665 –> 01:07:47.445
know if it’s because we haven’t adapted appropriately our relationships to

1063
01:07:48.230 –> 01:07:51.910
the presence of the immediacy of social media fourth and

1064
01:07:51.910 –> 01:07:55.750
that’ll come along in Tom. Or we are at a space

1065
01:07:55.750 –> 01:07:58.635
of, you know, a poverty of spirituality,

1066
01:07:59.734 –> 01:08:03.255
poverty of Christian charity, which by the way, yes, Jefferson was an

1067
01:08:03.255 –> 01:08:07.049
atheist. Okay. So what? Like and for him, it wasn’t okay. So

1068
01:08:07.049 –> 01:08:10.730
what? It was a whatever. You know? And I

1069
01:08:10.730 –> 01:08:14.244
wouldn’t even really say an atheist. He was more like a he was

1070
01:08:14.244 –> 01:08:17.745
fourth. Well, anyway, he

1071
01:08:17.745 –> 01:08:21.104
he he lived in a space where he he wanted

1072
01:08:21.104 –> 01:08:24.790
to he might have his own personal relationship with

1073
01:08:24.790 –> 01:08:28.489
Jesus without being without having that mediated by an institutional structure.

1074
01:08:29.825 –> 01:08:33.365
And and to your point, that is part of the

1075
01:08:35.825 –> 01:08:39.239
the dichotomies that existed,

1076
01:08:40.020 –> 01:08:43.719
inside of, inside of Jefferson. And

1077
01:08:45.185 –> 01:08:48.944
we live in a space today where because we don’t have

1078
01:08:48.944 –> 01:08:52.385
a core or we don’t have our national core

1079
01:08:52.385 –> 01:08:56.179
identity has so been damaged by progressivism over the last 100 years

1080
01:08:56.479 –> 01:09:00.159
that we don’t have an idea of how to build relationships with

1081
01:09:00.159 –> 01:09:03.885
people outside of a political or identity, because we

1082
01:09:03.885 –> 01:09:07.165
think that politics is the only thing that matters. And there’s so much more to

1083
01:09:07.165 –> 01:09:10.819
matter out of life. And Jefferson could

1084
01:09:11.859 –> 01:09:15.399
could do that. And that’s how he could build something back

1085
01:09:16.260 –> 01:09:19.354
better, to borrow a phrase.

1086
01:09:20.054 –> 01:09:23.835
1 of them from John had it with John Adams. His political successor.

1087
01:09:23.894 –> 01:09:27.609
Yes. Yeah. Then even maybe what he had, you know,

1088
01:09:27.609 –> 01:09:31.449
what he he had before. Alright. Let’s,

1089
01:09:31.689 –> 01:09:34.489
let’s turn the corner here a little bit. Let’s talk about some of the other

1090
01:09:34.489 –> 01:09:37.885
players that are floating around this year. Declaration of Independence.

1091
01:09:39.225 –> 01:09:42.744
Back to the Declaration of Independence. I wanna talk a little bit

1092
01:09:42.744 –> 01:09:46.250
about plow. I want to talk a little bit

1093
01:09:46.250 –> 01:09:49.609
about the challenges of a

1094
01:09:49.609 –> 01:09:53.005
king from the declaration of

1095
01:09:53.005 –> 01:09:56.685
independence, and I quote, he has refused to assent to laws the

1096
01:09:56.685 –> 01:10:00.530
most wholesome and necessary for the public good. He forbidden his governors

1097
01:10:00.530 –> 01:10:04.210
to pass laws of immediate and pressing importance unless suspended in their operation till his

1098
01:10:04.210 –> 01:10:07.875
ascent should be obtained. And when so suspended, he has utterly

1099
01:10:07.875 –> 01:10:11.715
neglected to attend to them. He has refused to pass other laws for the

1100
01:10:11.715 –> 01:10:15.315
accommodation of large districts people unless those people would relinquish the right of

1101
01:10:15.315 –> 01:10:19.159
representation in the legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable

1102
01:10:19.219 –> 01:10:22.820
to tyrants only. His call Tom get legislative

1103
01:10:22.820 –> 01:10:26.495
bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the

1104
01:10:26.495 –> 01:10:29.855
depository of their public records for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into

1105
01:10:29.855 –> 01:10:32.275
compliance with his measures.

1106
01:10:33.730 –> 01:10:37.170
He has dissolved representative houses repeatedly for opposing with manly

1107
01:10:37.170 –> 01:10:40.975
firmness his invasions on the rights of people. He has refused

1108
01:10:40.975 –> 01:10:44.815
for a long time after such dissolutions to cause others to be elected, whereby the

1109
01:10:44.815 –> 01:10:48.655
legislative powers, incapable of annihilation, have returned to the people at large

1110
01:10:48.655 –> 01:10:52.030
for their exercise, the state turning, in the

1111
01:10:52.030 –> 01:10:55.550
meantime, exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without and

1112
01:10:55.550 –> 01:10:58.945
convulsions within. He has

1113
01:10:58.945 –> 01:11:02.325
endeavored to prevent the population of these states for that purpose,

1114
01:11:02.625 –> 01:11:06.460
obstructing the laws of naturalization of foreigners, refusing to pass others

1115
01:11:06.460 –> 01:11:09.900
to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new

1116
01:11:09.900 –> 01:11:13.455
appropriations of lands. He has

1117
01:11:13.455 –> 01:11:17.295
obstructed the administration of justice by refusing his assent to laws

1118
01:11:17.295 –> 01:11:20.760
for establishing judiciary powers. He has made

1119
01:11:20.760 –> 01:11:24.380
judges dependent on his will alone for the tenure of their offices

1120
01:11:24.599 –> 01:11:28.415
and the amount and payment of their salaries. He has erected a

1121
01:11:28.415 –> 01:11:32.175
multitude of new offices and sent hither swarms of officers to harass our

1122
01:11:32.175 –> 01:11:35.949
people and eat out their substance. He

1123
01:11:35.949 –> 01:11:39.389
is kept among us in times of peace, standing armies without the consent of our

1124
01:11:39.389 –> 01:11:42.909
legislatures. He is affected to render the military independent of and

1125
01:11:42.909 –> 01:11:46.695
superior to the civil power. He has combined with others

1126
01:11:46.695 –> 01:11:50.215
to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution and

1127
01:11:50.215 –> 01:11:53.820
unacknowledged by our laws, giving his assent to their acts of

1128
01:11:53.820 –> 01:11:57.119
pretended legislation. Close quote.

1129
01:12:00.815 –> 01:12:03.635
The he that Jefferson continually

1130
01:12:05.055 –> 01:12:08.590
mentions here in the Declaration of Independence is,

1131
01:12:08.590 –> 01:12:12.270
of course, King of England at the Tom, King George the

1132
01:12:12.270 –> 01:12:16.030
third. And no matter

1133
01:12:16.030 –> 01:12:19.784
what Hamilton, the musical may tell you,

1134
01:12:21.525 –> 01:12:24.664
King George the third was not a simpering, prancing

1135
01:12:24.885 –> 01:12:28.400
coward. He was not a he was not

1136
01:12:28.400 –> 01:12:32.000
simping on Instagram or OnlyFans. That 1 that 1 his

1137
01:12:32.000 –> 01:12:35.725
deal. He oversaw the

1138
01:12:35.725 –> 01:12:39.405
defeat of wars against, the

1139
01:12:39.405 –> 01:12:43.230
revolutionary forces of France, the Napoleonic France that

1140
01:12:43.230 –> 01:12:46.990
started in 17/93 and concluded in the defeat of Napoleon at the

1141
01:12:46.990 –> 01:12:50.370
Battle of Waterloo in 18/15. He had a long career.

1142
01:12:51.205 –> 01:12:54.665
In 18/07, he oversaw the banning of the transatlantic

1143
01:12:54.885 –> 01:12:57.568
slave trade from the British Empire. He had a moral

1144
01:12:57.568 –> 01:13:00.860
fourth. But he was also proud,

1145
01:13:01.000 –> 01:13:04.840
monarchical, and arrogant. And he knew what it meant to hold power because his

1146
01:13:04.840 –> 01:13:08.685
family had held power in a world driven by monarchy. And

1147
01:13:08.685 –> 01:13:12.205
fundamentally, even with all that, he was still

1148
01:13:12.205 –> 01:13:16.019
pragmatic. And even at the end of a war,

1149
01:13:16.079 –> 01:13:19.780
there’s such a declarative, proclamation like the declaration of independence

1150
01:13:19.920 –> 01:13:23.655
would create. By the way, this is an example of his

1151
01:13:23.655 –> 01:13:27.335
pragmatism. He told John Adams speaking of John Adams, the

1152
01:13:27.335 –> 01:13:30.900
newly appointed American minister to London in 17/85, and I

1153
01:13:30.900 –> 01:13:34.340
quote, I was the last to consent to the separation, but the

1154
01:13:34.340 –> 01:13:38.180
separation having been made and having become inevitable, I’ve always said, as I say

1155
01:13:38.180 –> 01:13:41.385
now, that I would be the 1st to meet the friendship of the United States

1156
01:13:41.385 –> 01:13:44.445
as an independent power. Close quote.

1157
01:13:45.705 –> 01:13:49.280
Sometimes when the war is over, you just gotta make the peace and move on.

1158
01:13:49.659 –> 01:13:53.340
And he got it. In

1159
01:13:53.340 –> 01:13:56.719
the Declaration of Independence, his actions are described as tyrannical.

1160
01:13:57.260 –> 01:13:59.385
Matter of fact, that’s actually specifically,

1161
01:14:00.885 –> 01:14:04.725
specifically described as tyrannical. And a lot of the things are going to come later

1162
01:14:04.725 –> 01:14:08.540
in the Constitution, particularly the elements that are

1163
01:14:08.540 –> 01:14:12.380
reflected in the, bill of rights are going to come

1164
01:14:12.380 –> 01:14:16.175
directly out of the list of usurpations

1165
01:14:17.114 –> 01:14:20.574
and tyrannical acts that

1166
01:14:21.630 –> 01:14:25.389
King George the 3rd is alleged to have put on

1167
01:14:25.389 –> 01:14:28.750
the backs of the American colonies in their declaration of

1168
01:14:28.750 –> 01:14:32.475
independence. And so, DeRolla, how do we look at

1169
01:14:32.475 –> 01:14:36.095
King George? What can leaders learn fourth King George,

1170
01:14:36.955 –> 01:14:40.680
particularly about being great? So it’s funny because Awesome.

1171
01:14:40.680 –> 01:14:43.960
So, yeah, we’re we were actually just in England. We were in England a month

1172
01:14:43.960 –> 01:14:46.840
ago. Had a great trip. You know, got to catch up with some friends. It

1173
01:14:46.840 –> 01:14:50.574
was wonderful. But, yeah, I was I I lived

1174
01:14:50.574 –> 01:14:54.415
there a bit during law school ish politics and some of their history as

1175
01:14:54.415 –> 01:14:57.810
an amateur. Is the comments in this document

1176
01:14:58.110 –> 01:15:01.650
have been much more accurately stated about

1177
01:15:02.110 –> 01:15:05.955
the Stewart Turning prior to Cromwell’s,

1178
01:15:06.975 –> 01:15:10.675
revolt. Okay? In contrast,

1179
01:15:11.054 –> 01:15:14.830
post restoration, post the glorious

1180
01:15:14.970 –> 01:15:18.698
revolution, so called, okay, quotation books,

1181
01:15:18.730 –> 01:15:21.710
right, air quotes, what are called, you know, wigption

1182
01:15:22.525 –> 01:15:26.285
ever afterward. Okay? It meant parliament is supreme and the king

1183
01:15:26.285 –> 01:15:29.905
is not. It meant that even where the king is running his government

1184
01:15:30.380 –> 01:15:33.760
from day to day as King George the 3rd would have done,

1185
01:15:35.020 –> 01:15:38.800
there’s really a lot going on in parliament that is actually driving

1186
01:15:38.860 –> 01:15:42.655
things. And so that’s obscured in the usage

1187
01:15:42.655 –> 01:15:46.495
here. Now, rhetorically, and certainly in

1188
01:15:46.495 –> 01:15:48.355
terms of advertising,

1189
01:15:50.239 –> 01:15:53.920
TJ did the right thing. Mhmm. It’s a

1190
01:15:53.920 –> 01:15:57.520
lot easier for people to focus on 1 man who is

1191
01:15:57.520 –> 01:16:01.105
evil than focus on a body of men of changing

1192
01:16:01.105 –> 01:16:04.864
composition whom they do not know, who are real bad guys.

1193
01:16:04.864 –> 01:16:08.165
That doesn’t really work rhetorically, and it doesn’t work

1194
01:16:08.920 –> 01:16:12.280
morally as powerfully as that’s the

1195
01:16:12.280 –> 01:16:14.540
man. Mhmm. Get it.

1196
01:16:16.215 –> 01:16:19.975
You know? And so that’s effectively what he did. And

1197
01:16:19.975 –> 01:16:23.655
so the first thing that strikes me is knowing their system, knowing

1198
01:16:23.655 –> 01:16:27.340
that, oh, okay. Even said anything about

1199
01:16:27.400 –> 01:16:30.760
Lord North, the prime minister, the 1 who

1200
01:16:30.760 –> 01:16:34.375
was, literally behind creating and

1201
01:16:34.375 –> 01:16:38.215
passing these obnoxious policies, like the

1202
01:16:38.215 –> 01:16:41.630
stamp and things like that. Those didn’t come from King George

1203
01:16:41.630 –> 01:16:45.270
the 3rd. He signed the royal assent. Right? But Right.

1204
01:16:45.310 –> 01:16:48.850
He didn’t draft them. They weren’t even his ideas. They were parliament’s

1205
01:16:48.909 –> 01:16:51.855
ideas, and not all of parliament because,

1206
01:16:53.355 –> 01:16:56.955
the American colonies had partisans in congress, had people

1207
01:16:56.955 –> 01:17:00.550
there who supported the Americans’ views

1208
01:17:00.770 –> 01:17:03.670
on English liberties. Mhmm. Okay?

1209
01:17:06.105 –> 01:17:09.705
The ancient liberties of England, however you wish to express it. The

1210
01:17:09.705 –> 01:17:13.389
American colonies had friends in in parliament. And until war

1211
01:17:13.389 –> 01:17:17.150
actually started, there were powerful voices calling for restraint, calling

1212
01:17:17.150 –> 01:17:19.650
for compromise, calling for coming

1213
01:17:25.605 –> 01:17:29.445
a solution that the American colonies with, and

1214
01:17:29.445 –> 01:17:33.080
Lord North was not those people. And so there you go. And

1215
01:17:33.080 –> 01:17:36.760
so that’s what strikes me first. When you

1216
01:17:36.760 –> 01:17:40.385
understand their system, you see

1217
01:17:40.385 –> 01:17:44.065
that there’s a lot of, you know, that there’s a lot of

1218
01:17:44.065 –> 01:17:47.905
advertising going on here, rather than, you

1219
01:17:47.905 –> 01:17:51.230
know, an accurate description of King George the 3rd,

1220
01:17:52.090 –> 01:17:55.850
was fomenting. Now was he responsible? That’s what it meant to be king. It’s what

1221
01:17:55.850 –> 01:17:58.590
it still needs to be king. Mhmm. And

1222
01:18:02.395 –> 01:18:06.155
so, and. Now there’s a

1223
01:18:06.155 –> 01:18:09.650
subtle point in terms of the difference between the British system and the

1224
01:18:09.650 –> 01:18:13.489
American system at the Tom. As

1225
01:18:13.489 –> 01:18:17.215
this document recognized, the king did

1226
01:18:17.215 –> 01:18:20.114
have a role in the American colonies. Okay?

1227
01:18:23.135 –> 01:18:26.830
He was the sovereign. But in

1228
01:18:26.830 –> 01:18:30.290
a system that’s, had to recognize

1229
01:18:30.350 –> 01:18:33.965
representation, Okay? Had to respect

1230
01:18:33.965 –> 01:18:37.344
the law that the,

1231
01:18:38.364 –> 01:18:42.160
lawfully elected representatives passed. And, of

1232
01:18:42.160 –> 01:18:45.280
course, remember, he had to give his his royal assent, but had to respect the

1233
01:18:45.280 –> 01:18:48.960
law and had to respect due process. This is what the Magna Carta was

1234
01:18:48.960 –> 01:18:52.055
about. This is what the bill of right from 1627

1235
01:18:52.835 –> 01:18:56.595
was about. Okay? And

1236
01:18:56.595 –> 01:19:00.275
so, there was a constitution, small

1237
01:19:00.275 –> 01:19:03.910
c, in place, and there was a

1238
01:19:03.910 –> 01:19:07.670
system in play. And so many of

1239
01:19:07.670 –> 01:19:11.505
the, Tom many, but some of the criticisms

1240
01:19:11.645 –> 01:19:15.265
can be laid, at his feet because they involve

1241
01:19:15.325 –> 01:19:18.830
more wrongs that where he, in my opinion, is legitimately

1242
01:19:19.050 –> 01:19:22.890
responsible rather than parliament. Mhmm. So some of them do. But,

1243
01:19:22.890 –> 01:19:25.790
you know, there’s there’s there’s subtleties in their

1244
01:19:28.114 –> 01:19:31.635
and greet them, and and then you have you with a little

1245
01:19:31.635 –> 01:19:34.270
England working as as

1246
01:19:35.530 –> 01:19:39.290
an as a professional historian who wrote a book called American Nations. And 1 of

1247
01:19:39.290 –> 01:19:42.665
the things that he talks about in his book, the the premise is that

1248
01:19:42.905 –> 01:19:46.585
there was more than 1 American founding, that there was about 13 of

1249
01:19:46.585 –> 01:19:50.185
them, and not because of the colonies, but because different populations came in at different

1250
01:19:50.185 –> 01:19:54.010
times with different ideas, and different ideas about, among other

1251
01:19:54.010 –> 01:19:57.310
things, that are relevant to this conversation about freedom and liberty.

1252
01:19:57.370 –> 01:20:01.105
Mhmm. And as you study that and

1253
01:20:01.105 –> 01:20:03.445
then study, for example,

1254
01:20:04.945 –> 01:20:08.380
what happened in Maryland and in Virginia

1255
01:20:09.239 –> 01:20:13.080
in the those 2 colonies while there was a civil war going

1256
01:20:13.080 –> 01:20:16.815
on in the UK in 17th century, so century

1257
01:20:17.315 –> 01:20:20.975
fourth, I didn’t know that there were things like battles that

1258
01:20:20.975 –> 01:20:24.650
happened on this continent during that war because

1259
01:20:24.710 –> 01:20:28.470
of artisans here having certain ideas. I I didn’t know any of that

1260
01:20:28.470 –> 01:20:31.775
until I read his book. And so that that was absolutely fascinating. But,

1261
01:20:32.315 –> 01:20:36.155
basically, in a sense, we’ve got the wrong guy, but he’s

1262
01:20:36.155 –> 01:20:39.535
the guy you wanna paint in those colors because you can’t do it

1263
01:20:40.159 –> 01:20:43.840
more accurately with parliament because that would just never sell. It would never sell.

1264
01:20:43.840 –> 01:20:47.679
Okay? Mhmm. And yet some of that could be blamed on this

1265
01:20:47.679 –> 01:20:50.535
king, and what he really needed to do was just act like a king. Show

1266
01:20:50.535 –> 01:20:53.815
up. Do your 2. Like, what what do they do today? And not just in

1267
01:20:53.815 –> 01:20:57.530
Canada, but in the United States. Show up. Do a fabulous tour. There’s a

1268
01:20:57.530 –> 01:21:01.210
parade. Everybody loves you. Hand out some titles. I’ll make you

1269
01:21:01.210 –> 01:21:04.935
the lord of Maryland. I’ll make you the baron of, you know,

1270
01:21:04.935 –> 01:21:08.695
Broom County or whatever. And Americans would have eaten that

1271
01:21:08.695 –> 01:21:12.430
for breakfast, certainly in the Fourth, would have eaten that for breakfast. Oh, yeah.

1272
01:21:12.430 –> 01:21:15.810
Mhmm. And the and the New Englanders would have been furious

1273
01:21:16.750 –> 01:21:20.485
because the part of England from which most of that DNA

1274
01:21:20.864 –> 01:21:24.385
came from was very commercially viable, very

1275
01:21:24.385 –> 01:21:27.025
independent. We’re talking the east east Anglia.

1276
01:21:28.869 –> 01:21:32.170
And so a little bit northeast of London up to the Humber.

1277
01:21:33.030 –> 01:21:36.809
And so places like including cities like Boston,

1278
01:21:37.545 –> 01:21:40.685
Lincoln, these are in the UK. These are in East England. Okay?

1279
01:21:41.705 –> 01:21:45.545
Norfolk. Right. These are in East England. Okay? Those people would

1280
01:21:45.545 –> 01:21:49.179
have been furious, justifiably so, but that was their

1281
01:21:49.400 –> 01:21:52.760
DNA and their culture, which helped

1282
01:21:52.760 –> 01:21:55.579
inform their ideas in New England,

1283
01:21:57.425 –> 01:22:00.965
about, you know, kings and all of that. And so

1284
01:22:01.185 –> 01:22:02.885
it’s interesting that

1285
01:22:04.940 –> 01:22:08.720
for a Southerner, Thomas Jefferson was remarkably

1286
01:22:09.180 –> 01:22:13.015
antimanarchical. Mhmm. Well, it’s

1287
01:22:13.555 –> 01:22:17.155
well, it’s the it’s so the the the vast majority of the

1288
01:22:17.155 –> 01:22:20.990
Southern United States talking about what was settled and what wasn’t, the vast majority

1289
01:22:20.990 –> 01:22:24.510
of the Southern United States was settled by folks that came out of

1290
01:22:24.510 –> 01:22:28.210
that Scottish tradition. Right? And

1291
01:22:30.485 –> 01:22:34.325
Scottish and Irish tradition. And the folks that came out of the Scottish

1292
01:22:34.325 –> 01:22:37.910
and Irish tradition had a long history of, I

1293
01:22:37.910 –> 01:22:41.590
mean, going back well into the Middle Ages and even

1294
01:22:41.590 –> 01:22:44.170
before that into the Roman in the time of the Roman Empire

1295
01:22:45.465 –> 01:22:49.085
of fighting pitched battles with the English over

1296
01:22:49.705 –> 01:22:51.085
who was going to

1297
01:22:53.220 –> 01:22:56.820
rule Over land. Over land. Writers. The principle of

1298
01:22:56.820 –> 01:23:00.620
land. Writers. Which is why coming to North America and and,

1299
01:23:00.620 –> 01:23:04.345
you know, I have sometimes explained this Tom people. They didn’t they didn’t view

1300
01:23:05.285 –> 01:23:08.565
not even that. I’ll frame it this way. This is why when they came to

1301
01:23:08.565 –> 01:23:11.385
America and they discovered that there were already people living here,

1302
01:23:13.500 –> 01:23:17.200
they had such pitched battles with those folks because

1303
01:23:18.540 –> 01:23:22.045
they under they had been under they had been they had been they had

1304
01:23:22.045 –> 01:23:25.645
been living in a paradigm of warfare for

1305
01:23:25.645 –> 01:23:29.085
land based freedom for at least 500

1306
01:23:29.085 –> 01:23:32.830
years Yeah. At a minimum. Writers.

1307
01:23:32.830 –> 01:23:35.730
And so you can’t

1308
01:23:36.430 –> 01:23:39.925
take that away. And then you combine that

1309
01:23:39.925 –> 01:23:43.685
with a sense that I am

1310
01:23:43.685 –> 01:23:47.450
now here. This land is empty. I came out

1311
01:23:47.450 –> 01:23:50.910
of a long history of Scottish rebellion,

1312
01:23:51.450 –> 01:23:54.010
and now I’m going to set up this thing the way I’m going to set

1313
01:23:54.010 –> 01:23:57.364
it up and no 1 can tell me what to do,

1314
01:23:58.065 –> 01:24:01.905
which is what made the slavery

1315
01:24:01.905 –> 01:24:05.599
process so problematic, I guess, is

1316
01:24:05.599 –> 01:24:09.280
the term that I’ll use, starting in starting in Virginia, and

1317
01:24:09.280 –> 01:24:12.725
then moving its way all the way into Georgia Jesan then

1318
01:24:12.725 –> 01:24:16.485
Mississippi and Alabama. And then also it’s

1319
01:24:16.485 –> 01:24:19.925
what made the civil war a little bit later on, 80 years

1320
01:24:19.925 –> 01:24:23.730
on, later, such a

1321
01:24:23.869 –> 01:24:27.550
apocalyptic war. Because how do you crack a mindset like

1322
01:24:27.550 –> 01:24:31.305
that? How do you even impact a mindset like that?

1323
01:24:31.305 –> 01:24:34.745
Well, it’s just like Jefferson dealing with the Barbary pirates. Like, you have

1324
01:24:34.745 –> 01:24:38.430
to you have to punch it in the mouth directly and you have

1325
01:24:38.430 –> 01:24:41.230
to understand what it is directly. And and by the way, you can’t just punch

1326
01:24:41.230 –> 01:24:44.670
it once. You got to repeatedly, like, hit on it until it

1327
01:24:44.670 –> 01:24:47.665
breaks. And it is only, I would assert,

1328
01:24:48.605 –> 01:24:51.585
I would assert that the last bit of Scottish

1329
01:24:53.480 –> 01:24:55.900
rebellious aristocratic thinking,

1330
01:24:57.160 –> 01:25:00.920
probably went out of the American Fourth in the late 19

1331
01:25:00.920 –> 01:25:04.525
nineties and as soon as the late 19 nineties. And I would even assert that

1332
01:25:04.525 –> 01:25:07.885
some of it’s still there even still, which is what scares

1333
01:25:07.885 –> 01:25:10.945
everybody everybody half to death when they talk about civil war.

1334
01:25:12.800 –> 01:25:16.100
Okay. The king didn’t behave like a king,

1335
01:25:17.120 –> 01:25:19.220
or the king should have behaved like a king.

1336
01:25:19.940 –> 01:25:23.235
Writers King George’s pragmatism

1337
01:25:23.455 –> 01:25:27.215
because he he he struck me as being a kind of guy who

1338
01:25:27.215 –> 01:25:30.710
was like, okay, if the fight’s gonna happen, and I’ve run into guys like this

1339
01:25:30.710 –> 01:25:34.150
before in, and I always mentioned

1340
01:25:34.150 –> 01:25:37.830
jujitsu once a podcast, Sorrells mention it now. You always run against those guys

1341
01:25:37.830 –> 01:25:41.364
like this in jujitsu where, you know, we’re gonna be friends off the mat. That’s

1342
01:25:41.364 –> 01:25:43.864
fine. We can go hang out. We can go whatever.

1343
01:25:45.525 –> 01:25:49.120
But, you know, if we’re gonna bump this, it’s like, okay. I’m not your

1344
01:25:49.120 –> 01:25:52.720
friend anymore. Like, we’re we’re getting into this. Whatever happens

1345
01:25:52.720 –> 01:25:56.480
happens. And you, you know, you’re coming out of a wrestling background. You know

1346
01:25:56.480 –> 01:26:00.325
this. Whatever happens happens, but then, like, when we’re

1347
01:26:00.325 –> 01:26:04.165
done, we’re done. Like, we leave it here. And King George the

1348
01:26:04.165 –> 01:26:07.560
third impresses me as being that sort of fellow.

1349
01:26:08.100 –> 01:26:11.780
Mhmm. Yeah. And

1350
01:26:11.780 –> 01:26:13.320
it’s ironic because,

1351
01:26:16.265 –> 01:26:20.025
that I think there’s several several there are several layers of

1352
01:26:20.025 –> 01:26:21.965
irony for it for me. 1,

1353
01:26:24.010 –> 01:26:27.690
the man was straight up German. Okay? Right. His

1354
01:26:27.690 –> 01:26:31.505
grandfather no. I think it’s his great grandfather. Because there’s

1355
01:26:31.505 –> 01:26:35.025
at least 1 generation skip in the Hanoverian monarchs. But the first

1356
01:26:35.025 –> 01:26:38.700
Hanoverian monarch king George the first didn’t speak any English. Okay? He’s in England. He’s

1357
01:26:38.700 –> 01:26:41.520
also king of Hanover, which is in Germany. It’s in Northern Germany,

1358
01:26:42.308 –> 01:26:45.660
fourth of Denmark, and,

1359
01:26:46.219 –> 01:26:50.045
that part of Jesan. And freak and not directly

1360
01:26:50.045 –> 01:26:53.344
south. That’s. South of there. Anyway,

1361
01:26:55.324 –> 01:26:58.870
so George first didn’t speak English. Enough said.

1362
01:26:58.870 –> 01:27:02.710
Next, George the second. Okay? Antagonistic relationship with

1363
01:27:02.710 –> 01:27:06.375
his father, George the first. Okay? Also probably didn’t speak much English.

1364
01:27:06.455 –> 01:27:09.995
Spent time in Hanover. Blah blah blah. Okay? Then his son,

1365
01:27:10.135 –> 01:27:13.175
who’s the father of George the third died, then you have George the third. Okay?

1366
01:27:13.175 –> 01:27:16.960
And so I believe he was the first Hanoverian monarch actually born in

1367
01:27:17.260 –> 01:27:20.860
England. Mhmm. But what strikes me here is

1368
01:27:20.860 –> 01:27:23.600
that, in my opinion, that’s a very English characteristic.

1369
01:27:24.765 –> 01:27:28.385
Okay? That we play the game, we play out the rules,

1370
01:27:28.765 –> 01:27:32.365
and then when we’re done, we can shake hands and we can go, you know,

1371
01:27:32.365 –> 01:27:35.030
have a beer. Like, that’s very much them. Okay?

1372
01:27:37.010 –> 01:27:40.690
There are ways in which we as Americans act

1373
01:27:40.690 –> 01:27:43.750
similarly, but they’re they’re noticeable distinctions.

1374
01:27:44.595 –> 01:27:47.955
I think we are more concerned. We Americans are more

1375
01:27:47.955 –> 01:27:51.655
concerned frankly with winning than with playing by the rules

1376
01:27:52.899 –> 01:27:56.679
Tom us, it is not a point of pride that we played by the rules

1377
01:27:56.679 –> 01:28:00.300
and lost. Writers? Right.

1378
01:28:00.805 –> 01:28:04.265
We won. Excellent. If we played by the Sorrells, it’s a secondary

1379
01:28:04.405 –> 01:28:08.085
consideration. And I’m not saying that’s better. I’m just saying that that is

1380
01:28:08.085 –> 01:28:11.870
more us, okay, versus them. I think

1381
01:28:11.870 –> 01:28:15.650
it is very much a characteristic of theirs to play by the rules.

1382
01:28:15.870 –> 01:28:19.675
Right. And, of course, what does that come from?

1383
01:28:19.675 –> 01:28:23.295
That comes out of a social elite there

1384
01:28:23.355 –> 01:28:27.000
who owned and ran everything, but also who

1385
01:28:27.000 –> 01:28:30.840
created the due process we know of in

1386
01:28:30.840 –> 01:28:34.040
our own country. And so when they’re saying you have to play by the rules,

1387
01:28:34.040 –> 01:28:37.675
what they’re really saying is due process matters. That’s what they’re actually saying.

1388
01:28:37.735 –> 01:28:41.415
And so it’s just due process matters as applied to fourth, due process matters as

1389
01:28:41.415 –> 01:28:44.395
it applies to marriage, due process matters as it applies Tom

1390
01:28:45.830 –> 01:28:49.590
and so, to me, that’s very, very, very English. And so to find

1391
01:28:49.590 –> 01:28:53.350
King George the third of all people, you know, Farmer

1392
01:28:53.350 –> 01:28:56.815
George, that’s was his nickname. Okay? And he loved

1393
01:28:56.815 –> 01:29:00.335
farming. Like, that was his thing. I had massive family. I think he had 16

1394
01:29:00.335 –> 01:29:04.030
kids from 1 wife. You know? Farmer George and the whole crew.

1395
01:29:04.730 –> 01:29:08.030
It was a serious working farm. But,

1396
01:29:08.730 –> 01:29:12.085
you know, this is very English. And

1397
01:29:12.085 –> 01:29:15.545
so I find that I find that striking, you know,

1398
01:29:16.085 –> 01:29:19.210
I I think, yeah, I think that pragmatism.

1399
01:29:20.550 –> 01:29:24.284
Okay. So leadership. Can you

1400
01:29:24.284 –> 01:29:27.724
keep your eye on the big picture and also play really hard, but by the

1401
01:29:27.724 –> 01:29:30.784
rule, but if I get Tom further.

1402
01:29:31.085 –> 01:29:34.860
Okay? And will inspire

1403
01:29:35.000 –> 01:29:37.740
people following you better than,

1404
01:29:38.680 –> 01:29:42.515
you know, just dispensing with the rules left and right, obviously.

1405
01:29:42.975 –> 01:29:46.575
Mhmm. I don’t know how long people are going to follow you without

1406
01:29:46.575 –> 01:29:50.400
stabbing you in the back if you show that you don’t care what

1407
01:29:50.400 –> 01:29:54.160
the rules are. Even the not even even. Especially the

1408
01:29:54.160 –> 01:29:56.500
rules that you’ve set. You know? Right.

1409
01:29:58.755 –> 01:30:01.574
So, yeah. So, you know,

1410
01:30:02.755 –> 01:30:06.295
also, there’s some letting your underlings run everything

1411
01:30:06.880 –> 01:30:10.720
because as I said, you know, about 10 minutes ago, and

1412
01:30:10.720 –> 01:30:14.215
if he had, he would have had of America. Listen to

1413
01:30:14.215 –> 01:30:17.995
what the choose. And I don’t know how parliament would have responded

1414
01:30:18.055 –> 01:30:21.620
if he created these little parliaments and

1415
01:30:21.620 –> 01:30:25.380
and recognize that they should be independent, that the American

1416
01:30:25.380 –> 01:30:29.060
colonies could come within the British empire without being under the

1417
01:30:29.060 –> 01:30:32.835
thumb of parliament. It’s a subtlety that’s there that I

1418
01:30:32.835 –> 01:30:36.195
don’t think US history class prepares American students

1419
01:30:36.195 –> 01:30:39.809
for. Yeah. Because yet yet it was the

1420
01:30:39.809 –> 01:30:43.349
reality. Okay? Parliament, for example, didn’t legislate for India.

1421
01:30:43.570 –> 01:30:45.349
That didn’t happen. Okay?

1422
01:30:47.305 –> 01:30:50.825
And and and why would it? It’s not England. It’s

1423
01:30:50.825 –> 01:30:54.425
India. Oh, okay. Well, then how are laws being made in

1424
01:30:54.425 –> 01:30:57.990
India? That’s a separate issue that could have been dealt with and was

1425
01:30:57.990 –> 01:31:01.530
there dealt with differently. Yeah. And so,

1426
01:31:01.750 –> 01:31:05.575
you know, in that was in a really, really weird way until

1427
01:31:05.575 –> 01:31:09.335
about 1858. But, you know,

1428
01:31:09.335 –> 01:31:12.715
part part of the fascinating thing about studying the actual British empire,

1429
01:31:13.110 –> 01:31:16.630
it’s like no other empire I’ve ever studied because it’s so

1430
01:31:16.950 –> 01:31:20.710
there’s so many different models that all some of them are

1431
01:31:20.710 –> 01:31:23.555
still in existence right now. Okay? Gibraltar,

1432
01:31:24.255 –> 01:31:27.775
okay, right now doesn’t function the same way as the Isle of

1433
01:31:27.775 –> 01:31:31.455
Jersey. Okay? But neither of them are great Britain, and yet they’re

1434
01:31:31.455 –> 01:31:35.250
still under British sovereignty. Right. Their islands

1435
01:31:35.250 –> 01:31:38.469
in the Pacific as far as I know. They’re still British possessions.

1436
01:31:38.610 –> 01:31:42.245
Okay? I think that place they sent Napoleon. I

1437
01:31:42.245 –> 01:31:45.865
think something I think that’s still it’s in the middle. It’s in the South Atlantic.

1438
01:31:46.005 –> 01:31:49.789
Yeah. Right. So, you know, so

1439
01:31:49.789 –> 01:31:53.570
many different Sorrells. And and this is what’s really exciting. Okay?

1440
01:31:55.789 –> 01:31:59.545
Because while I’m I’m a fan that’s the wrong word.

1441
01:31:59.845 –> 01:32:03.145
That’s bad diction. While I think it’s important

1442
01:32:05.800 –> 01:32:09.320
to call out British colonialism for its

1443
01:32:09.320 –> 01:32:12.230
abuses and justices, error,

1444
01:32:14.015 –> 01:32:17.775
genocide, whatever had to

1445
01:32:17.775 –> 01:32:21.295
be the case in the particular circumstance. I also think it’s

1446
01:32:21.295 –> 01:32:24.940
important to wreck a few things that did that were great. Okay? Mhmm. And so

1447
01:32:24.940 –> 01:32:28.300
1 of the fascinating things that they did that was great is so much of

1448
01:32:28.300 –> 01:32:31.760
how their colonialism worked. It was not a state enterprise. It was private

1449
01:32:32.155 –> 01:32:34.015
enterprise. Mhmm. And so,

1450
01:32:36.475 –> 01:32:39.935
it’s exciting because it shows that there’s a way forward

1451
01:32:40.635 –> 01:32:43.699
that works where normal people,

1452
01:32:44.559 –> 01:32:48.400
you and I and others, can take the fruits of our

1453
01:32:48.400 –> 01:32:51.885
labors and put them in a business venture

1454
01:32:52.264 –> 01:32:55.945
and literally found a state. Mhmm. And it

1455
01:32:55.945 –> 01:32:59.450
worked really well, and it still be in existence. And that’s what’s

1456
01:32:59.450 –> 01:33:01.070
scary. And when

1457
01:33:03.450 –> 01:33:06.890
when the crown was doing its job, they would

1458
01:33:06.890 –> 01:33:10.725
then declare sovereignty over the entity and then

1459
01:33:10.725 –> 01:33:14.485
just let it continue. And it just it worked marvelously. And when

1460
01:33:14.485 –> 01:33:16.185
it failed okay.

1461
01:33:21.830 –> 01:33:25.370
When it failed, arguably, what the crown then needed to do

1462
01:33:25.495 –> 01:33:29.195
was figure out, well, why why is this failing? Like, what what’s the deal here?

1463
01:33:29.575 –> 01:33:33.275
Okay. Like, India, for example. Mhmm. So

1464
01:33:33.850 –> 01:33:37.449
what’s the deal here? Well, the deal here is you have more and more people

1465
01:33:37.449 –> 01:33:40.969
coming over from the UK, and they have these strange notions about these brown people

1466
01:33:40.969 –> 01:33:44.574
who are around here. Mhmm. And over time, the racism

1467
01:33:45.195 –> 01:33:48.335
hardened and went further and further widespread

1468
01:33:49.034 –> 01:33:52.875
until what progressives would say was inevitable, but I won’t say is

1469
01:33:52.875 –> 01:33:56.510
inevitable, happened, I e, you had a nationalist

1470
01:33:56.570 –> 01:34:00.330
movement that was born because these people in

1471
01:34:00.330 –> 01:34:04.085
their own land were tired of having these foreigners telling them what to

1472
01:34:04.085 –> 01:34:07.685
do Yeah. And making them do weird things, like cut their toenails and do whatever

1473
01:34:07.685 –> 01:34:11.360
else. Like Right. In other words, if they had a modicum of

1474
01:34:11.360 –> 01:34:14.159
justice, if a crown had showed up and said, no. No. No. No. No. You’re

1475
01:34:14.159 –> 01:34:17.679
all equal under the law. Just like in England, you’re equal under the law

1476
01:34:17.679 –> 01:34:21.415
here, which means that I will enforce the

1477
01:34:21.415 –> 01:34:24.855
laws against you for their rights over there. All of a

1478
01:34:24.855 –> 01:34:28.666
sudden, you you you still have a British Indian. Mhmm. You have a you

1479
01:34:28.666 –> 01:34:31.950
have a very different society in my opinion, but you still have a British India.

1480
01:34:31.950 –> 01:34:35.550
Yep. And why don’t we have British India today? Because they refuse to deal with

1481
01:34:35.550 –> 01:34:37.975
that injustice. That’s why. Period. That’s it. And so,

1482
01:34:39.475 –> 01:34:43.074
you know, all therefore, all of the

1483
01:34:43.074 –> 01:34:46.610
good that was done, the roads, the hospitals, the all of this

1484
01:34:46.610 –> 01:34:50.210
stuff that was done, the ending sati, the

1485
01:34:50.310 –> 01:34:53.750
turning thuggy and these other practices from Hinduism

1486
01:34:53.810 –> 01:34:57.625
where if you just read what was being

1487
01:34:57.625 –> 01:35:01.225
done Mhmm. And then just be honest with yourself, you say, yeah. Yeah. That was

1488
01:35:01.225 –> 01:35:04.685
actually pretty horrendous. Okay. I’m glad they stopped.

1489
01:35:04.940 –> 01:35:08.559
Wonderful. You know, that all gets suborned

1490
01:35:08.699 –> 01:35:12.215
to the narrative of the the inevitable rise of, you know, the

1491
01:35:12.455 –> 01:35:15.735
nationalism. And I get it. Nationalism. Yeah. I get why it had to happen. I

1492
01:35:15.735 –> 01:35:19.335
don’t fault them for doing that. I fault the crown because

1493
01:35:19.335 –> 01:35:22.980
it they let things get to that place To that place. Where then this was

1494
01:35:22.980 –> 01:35:26.740
inevitable and necessary. And ironically or not, read

1495
01:35:26.740 –> 01:35:30.534
the declaration of independence. You read that. You can see it coming.

1496
01:35:31.315 –> 01:35:34.215
Okay? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

1497
01:35:34.994 –> 01:35:38.070
Well why can’t I make my own salt?

1498
01:35:38.530 –> 01:35:40.290
Yeah. Is that you? Was that

1499
01:35:42.290 –> 01:35:45.864
but the sea is right there. Why can’t I make my own salt?

1500
01:35:47.285 –> 01:35:50.025
No. Nope. No. Thanks. Goodbye.

1501
01:35:51.125 –> 01:35:54.650
Boom. And now, you know, the largest democracy on the face of the earth.

1502
01:35:54.650 –> 01:35:58.010
Right. Wouldn’t have happened if the British weren’t there.

1503
01:35:58.010 –> 01:36:01.784
Right. Yeah. Would not be a democracy right now. They weren’t

1504
01:36:01.784 –> 01:36:05.625
a democracy before. Now here’s the irony, because Indian history is actually something

1505
01:36:05.625 –> 01:36:09.085
I study. That’s really fascinating. There actually are republican

1506
01:36:09.144 –> 01:36:12.760
antecedents that are, like, around 2000 years old. Really, really

1507
01:36:12.760 –> 01:36:16.060
fascinating stuff to study. But

1508
01:36:16.199 –> 01:36:20.025
so did the potential exist for that to

1509
01:36:20.025 –> 01:36:23.705
develop? Sure it did. But what I noticed is between then and, you

1510
01:36:23.705 –> 01:36:27.536
know, the 20th century, you didn’t have it. You didn’t have it. Yeah. Just like,

1511
01:36:27.536 –> 01:36:30.420
okay. So, yeah, about 2000 years to to for that to and it it it

1512
01:36:30.420 –> 01:36:34.141
didn’t unlike in Greece, where it only took about 3, fourth readers,

1513
01:36:34.855 –> 01:36:38.615
Right. To go from monarchy to

1514
01:36:38.615 –> 01:36:41.975
functioning republics, it only took about, you know, 2 to 400

1515
01:36:41.975 –> 01:36:45.690
years, and not uniformly. That never happened in

1516
01:36:45.690 –> 01:36:49.370
Sparta. It never happened. Okay? It happened in Athens and a few other

1517
01:36:49.370 –> 01:36:52.190
places. But, you know,

1518
01:36:53.125 –> 01:36:56.645
and then, of course, it being ironic that the first Greek empire, it was an

1519
01:36:56.645 –> 01:37:00.265
Athenian empire. Right? Of course. So here we have our democracy,

1520
01:37:00.485 –> 01:37:04.010
but we’re oppressing those people over there. Right. But, anyway, I digress.

1521
01:37:05.190 –> 01:37:09.030
Yeah. Georgia 3rd leadership. Don’t let your underlings run the

1522
01:37:09.030 –> 01:37:12.685
system. But, oh, by the way, you can have, you

1523
01:37:12.685 –> 01:37:16.525
know, you can have a venture that is private, that works,

1524
01:37:16.525 –> 01:37:19.920
that inspires, that is run that is started by, run by, and

1525
01:37:19.920 –> 01:37:23.600
empowered by normal people. And it will inspire

1526
01:37:23.600 –> 01:37:27.200
other normal people Normal people. Show up and want to

1527
01:37:27.200 –> 01:37:30.935
not just build their own thing, but work together. And

1528
01:37:30.935 –> 01:37:34.295
then that’s not the level where it matters most. It’s now we’re

1529
01:37:34.295 –> 01:37:37.735
sacrificing what is ours to achieve this common

1530
01:37:37.735 –> 01:37:41.390
good. Okay? We’re putting at hazard our fortunes,

1531
01:37:41.530 –> 01:37:45.290
our lives, our fortunes, and then our sacred honor. Right? Yep. So

1532
01:37:45.290 –> 01:37:48.325
here’s how I’ll end on this point. So I was just in England a month

1533
01:37:48.325 –> 01:37:52.165
ago. 1 of the photos I took, I was

1534
01:37:52.165 –> 01:37:55.860
walking on by Whitehall. Okay? I was actually at Whitehall. I

1535
01:37:55.860 –> 01:37:59.699
wasn’t in Whitehall since Whitehall is still a functioning government building set

1536
01:37:59.699 –> 01:38:02.520
of buildings. Excuse me. But,

1537
01:38:03.915 –> 01:38:06.955
I was walking by, and there’s a placard on the wall, and I took a

1538
01:38:06.955 –> 01:38:10.715
photo of it. And I love I love this. Okay? And remember, I want

1539
01:38:10.715 –> 01:38:14.489
people to hear me. Okay? I’m not saying that any of the abuses

1540
01:38:14.489 –> 01:38:17.710
were good or that they should have been tolerated. I’m not saying that. Okay?

1541
01:38:18.410 –> 01:38:22.074
I’m just saying there’s something remarkable and how some of these

1542
01:38:22.074 –> 01:38:25.915
British colonies were started and then grew, and

1543
01:38:25.915 –> 01:38:28.735
they’re lessons for the rest of us

1544
01:38:31.910 –> 01:38:35.750
that we could learn by studying them. And where

1545
01:38:35.750 –> 01:38:39.415
the heck did it go? I’m not even I don’t even know why it’s not

1546
01:38:39.415 –> 01:38:42.555
even the right ear. That doesn’t make any sense. Alright. Here we go.

1547
01:38:42.935 –> 01:38:46.615
So where are my photos from London? Alright. Here

1548
01:38:46.775 –> 01:38:50.390
yes. Yeah. There’s a great quote by, on Writers get into any

1549
01:38:50.390 –> 01:38:54.150
copyright issue, but where is but it’s brilliant. Give me a moment. I will

1550
01:38:54.150 –> 01:38:57.775
find it. Sure. I also took photos of,

1551
01:38:58.895 –> 01:39:02.655
various memorials I found Mhmm. Where there were different peoples who were thanking, you

1552
01:39:02.655 –> 01:39:06.290
know, the British for the stance they took in in

1553
01:39:06.290 –> 01:39:09.810
fighting alongside them or giving them asylum during World War 2, and I found it

1554
01:39:09.810 –> 01:39:13.525
highly moving. We live in an age where people are more likely to

1555
01:39:13.525 –> 01:39:16.965
take apart a statue statue, excuse me, than put 1 up.

1556
01:39:16.965 –> 01:39:20.710
Yeah. And so it’s fascinating to see these various memorials, you know,

1557
01:39:21.350 –> 01:39:24.890
quite moving. I found it. Canterbury province, New Zealand.

1558
01:39:25.190 –> 01:39:28.790
Quote, in March 18 48 on this fourth, Sorrells 41 Charing

1559
01:39:28.790 –> 01:39:32.614
Cross, the Canterbury Association met and planned the settlement of the

1560
01:39:32.614 –> 01:39:36.454
province founded on 16th December 18 50 by English settlers led

1561
01:39:36.454 –> 01:39:40.250
by John Robert Godley. What the heck was that? Who knows?

1562
01:39:40.250 –> 01:39:43.950
Just a normal person who founded a colony still exists.

1563
01:39:44.730 –> 01:39:48.425
Part of the nation of New Zealand. You know?

1564
01:39:48.425 –> 01:39:52.185
God save the king. Average people Libby god bless America, but I’m

1565
01:39:52.185 –> 01:39:55.785
like, yep. That doesn’t work in this context. So what’s what’s the

1566
01:39:55.785 –> 01:39:59.320
analog? You know, viva la France? That’s

1567
01:39:59.320 –> 01:40:03.000
everything. Yeah. Well, it’s average people being

1568
01:40:03.000 –> 01:40:06.135
empowered to behave heroically. Right.

1569
01:40:06.995 –> 01:40:10.595
And that’s also something that you get from the language of the Declaration of

1570
01:40:10.595 –> 01:40:14.275
Independence. Let’s, let’s turn a corner here. Let’s wrap this up. Let’s,

1571
01:40:14.595 –> 01:40:18.340
let’s continue through the Declaration of Independence and let’s explore

1572
01:40:18.340 –> 01:40:22.020
some more of this language. And let’s pick up with some

1573
01:40:22.020 –> 01:40:25.160
more of these usurpations and,

1574
01:40:25.685 –> 01:40:29.304
well, tyrannical acts that Jefferson

1575
01:40:30.244 –> 01:40:33.910
is listing here. And I

1576
01:40:33.910 –> 01:40:37.670
quote, for quartering the large bodies of armed troops among us,

1577
01:40:37.670 –> 01:40:41.190
we’re protecting them by a mock trial from punishment for any murders which they should

1578
01:40:41.190 –> 01:40:44.695
commit on the inhabitants of these states. We’re cutting off our trade with all parts

1579
01:40:44.695 –> 01:40:48.295
of the world, for imposing taxes on us without our consent, for

1580
01:40:48.295 –> 01:40:52.110
depriving us in many cases of the benefit of trial by jury, for

1581
01:40:52.110 –> 01:40:55.950
transporting us beyond seas to be tried for pretend offenses, for

1582
01:40:55.950 –> 01:40:59.710
abolishing the free system of English laws in a neighboring province, establishing therein an

1583
01:40:59.710 –> 01:41:03.525
arbitrary government, and enlarging its boundaries so as to render it at once

1584
01:41:03.525 –> 01:41:07.364
an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these

1585
01:41:07.364 –> 01:41:11.160
colonies. Or taking away our charters, abolishing our most

1586
01:41:11.160 –> 01:41:14.780
valuable laws and altering fundamentally the forms of our governments

1587
01:41:15.885 –> 01:41:19.565
versus spending our own legislatures and declaring themselves invested with power

1588
01:41:19.565 –> 01:41:22.305
to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

1589
01:41:23.510 –> 01:41:27.030
He has abdicated government here by declaring us out of his protection and

1590
01:41:27.030 –> 01:41:30.710
waging war against us. He has plundered our seas, ravaged our

1591
01:41:30.710 –> 01:41:34.505
coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people. He is at

1592
01:41:34.505 –> 01:41:38.264
this time transporting large armies of foreign mercenaries to complete the

1593
01:41:38.264 –> 01:41:42.010
works of death, desolation, and tyranny already begun with circumstances of

1594
01:41:42.010 –> 01:41:45.690
cruelty and perfidy scarcely parallel to the most barbarous ages and

1595
01:41:45.690 –> 01:41:49.435
totally unworthy of the head of a civilized nation. He has constrained our

1596
01:41:49.435 –> 01:41:53.035
fellow citizens turning captive on the high seas to bear arms against their country, to

1597
01:41:53.035 –> 01:41:56.815
become the executioners of their friends and brethren, or to fall themselves by

1598
01:41:57.114 –> 01:42:00.710
their hands. He has excited domestic insurrections

1599
01:42:00.850 –> 01:42:04.530
among us and has endeavored to bring on the inhabitants of our

1600
01:42:04.530 –> 01:42:08.075
frontiers, the merciless Indian savages, whose known rule of

1601
01:42:08.075 –> 01:42:11.375
warfare is an undistinguished destruction of all ages,

1602
01:42:11.515 –> 01:42:15.295
sexes, and conditions. And I’m gonna round the corner here.

1603
01:42:16.400 –> 01:42:20.240
In every stage of these oppressions, we have petitioned for redress in the

1604
01:42:20.240 –> 01:42:23.840
most humble terms. Our repeated petitions have been answered only by

1605
01:42:23.840 –> 01:42:27.555
repeated injury. A prince whose character is thus marked by every

1606
01:42:27.555 –> 01:42:30.835
act which may define a tyrant is unfit to be the ruler of a free

1607
01:42:30.835 –> 01:42:34.520
people, Nor have we been wanting in our attentions to our

1608
01:42:34.520 –> 01:42:38.040
British brethren. We’ve warned them from time to time of attempts by their

1609
01:42:38.040 –> 01:42:41.180
legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us.

1610
01:42:41.960 –> 01:42:45.545
We’ve reminded them of the circumstances of our immigration and settlement here.

1611
01:42:45.545 –> 01:42:48.985
We’ve appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have

1612
01:42:48.985 –> 01:42:52.780
conjured them by the ties of our common

1613
01:42:52.780 –> 01:42:56.300
kindred Tom disavow these usurpations, which would inevitably interrupt our

1614
01:42:56.300 –> 01:43:00.060
connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the voice of

1615
01:43:00.060 –> 01:43:03.755
justice and of consanguinity. We must fourth

1616
01:43:03.755 –> 01:43:07.215
acquiesce in the necessity which denounces our separation

1617
01:43:07.595 –> 01:43:11.239
and hold them as we hold the rest of mankind enemies in

1618
01:43:11.539 –> 01:43:15.219
war in peace, friends. We,

1619
01:43:15.219 –> 01:43:18.579
therefore, the representatives of the United States of America in general Congress

1620
01:43:18.579 –> 01:43:22.085
assembled appealing to the supreme judge of the world for the rectitude of our

1621
01:43:22.085 –> 01:43:25.205
intentions do in the name and by the authority of the good people of these

1622
01:43:25.205 –> 01:43:28.880
colonies, solidly publish and declare that these United Colonies are

1623
01:43:28.880 –> 01:43:32.560
and of right ought to be free and independent states, that they are

1624
01:43:32.560 –> 01:43:36.205
absolved from allegiance to the British Crown, and

1625
01:43:36.205 –> 01:43:39.485
that all political connection between them and the state of Great Britain is and ought

1626
01:43:39.485 –> 01:43:43.165
to be totally dissolved, and that as free and independent states, they have

1627
01:43:43.165 –> 01:43:46.580
full power to deliver war, levy war, conclude peace,

1628
01:43:46.720 –> 01:43:50.560
contract alliances, establish commerce, and to do all other

1629
01:43:50.560 –> 01:43:54.355
acts and things which independent states may have right to do. And for

1630
01:43:54.355 –> 01:43:58.035
the support of this declaration, fourth a firm reliance on the protection of

1631
01:43:58.035 –> 01:44:01.875
divine providence, we mutually pledge to each other

1632
01:44:01.875 –> 01:44:04.070
our lives, our fortunes,

1633
01:44:05.489 –> 01:44:06.949
and our sacred honor.

1634
01:44:11.065 –> 01:44:14.825
And they weren’t kidding either. The vast

1635
01:44:14.825 –> 01:44:18.345
majority of the signers of the Declaration of Independence wound up

1636
01:44:18.345 –> 01:44:22.040
either bankrupt, on the run, some of

1637
01:44:22.040 –> 01:44:25.820
them caught bullets, and at least a few of them lost their families.

1638
01:44:26.280 –> 01:44:30.115
They lost everything. Some of them did lose their lives. Some

1639
01:44:30.115 –> 01:44:33.675
of them did lose their fourth. But not 1 of them lost their

1640
01:44:33.675 –> 01:44:37.295
honor, and not 1 of them recanted. Not 1 of them went back.

1641
01:44:38.690 –> 01:44:42.050
Highly unusual in the history of the

1642
01:44:42.050 –> 01:44:45.110
world, particularly around revolutions,

1643
01:44:46.795 –> 01:44:50.635
of the Marxist type in the 20th century as

1644
01:44:50.635 –> 01:44:54.095
a counterpoint Tom Tom what is being declared

1645
01:44:54.155 –> 01:44:57.159
here. Apocryphally,

1646
01:44:57.620 –> 01:45:01.300
Benjamin Franklin noted that we almost hang together or we shall all hang

1647
01:45:01.300 –> 01:45:04.905
separately. And even though the delegates to the

1648
01:45:04.905 –> 01:45:08.665
constitution the Continental Congress, didn’t complete the signing of

1649
01:45:08.665 –> 01:45:10.364
the document until 1781,

1650
01:45:12.560 –> 01:45:16.159
the men who signed the Declaration of Independence were all

1651
01:45:16.159 –> 01:45:19.760
in 1 way or another by hook or by

1652
01:45:19.760 –> 01:45:23.605
crook. This is a question that I’ve often wanted

1653
01:45:23.605 –> 01:45:27.364
to ask to Rollo, and, it’ll be the question that sort of closes

1654
01:45:27.364 –> 01:45:28.824
out our time here today.

1655
01:45:32.280 –> 01:45:35.900
What is the likelihood that the founding fathers would have been hung for treason

1656
01:45:35.960 –> 01:45:37.500
if they had lost the war?

1657
01:45:40.995 –> 01:45:44.775
I think it was high. I think it was high.

1658
01:45:46.730 –> 01:45:50.410
Do I think some of them would have been pardoned without a doubt? The reason

1659
01:45:50.410 –> 01:45:54.125
I say that is because there’s a

1660
01:45:54.125 –> 01:45:57.965
certain level of the best description, of course, is the word corruption. But there’s

1661
01:45:57.965 –> 01:46:01.265
a certain level of corruption that were within British government such that

1662
01:46:01.910 –> 01:46:05.670
somebody with enough money, I’m certain, would have been able to get a pardon or

1663
01:46:05.670 –> 01:46:09.265
get some kind and not through King George the

1664
01:46:09.265 –> 01:46:12.865
3rd, through parliament. Okay? Because he would have

1665
01:46:12.865 –> 01:46:16.645
paid his factor, meaning his personal agent in London, enough money

1666
01:46:16.660 –> 01:46:20.100
to then get to somebody in parliament to say, hey. This person needs to be

1667
01:46:20.100 –> 01:46:23.860
pardoned, and then there’d be a bill, and it would be passed because this person

1668
01:46:23.860 –> 01:46:27.625
who helped me favors this person, this person. That’s how it worked. So I’m certain

1669
01:46:27.625 –> 01:46:31.385
that not all of them would have hanged, but certainly the chief ring leaders would

1670
01:46:31.385 –> 01:46:35.059
have hanged, and John Hancock really would have

1671
01:46:35.059 –> 01:46:38.820
hanged. Okay? He would have been hanged, drawn, and quartered. And actually they

1672
01:46:38.820 –> 01:46:42.585
actually they probably that’s what would have happened. You only, like, hang spies. The

1673
01:46:42.745 –> 01:46:46.505
they they literally would have pulled them up. They’re almost dead.

1674
01:46:46.505 –> 01:46:50.270
Cut them down and then slid out their entrails until

1675
01:46:50.270 –> 01:46:54.030
they it’s bloody awful. Okay? They’re bloody That’s what they

1676
01:46:54.030 –> 01:46:57.805
would have done. Put the head on a pike and said,

1677
01:46:57.805 –> 01:47:01.245
here you go. You rebel against us. This is what

1678
01:47:01.245 –> 01:47:04.765
happens to you. Mhmm. And I get it. That’s why we

1679
01:47:04.765 –> 01:47:08.510
won because that wasn’t gonna happen. You know? That was not

1680
01:47:08.510 –> 01:47:12.190
going to happen. And you know what’s

1681
01:47:12.190 –> 01:47:15.755
interesting because the the

1682
01:47:15.755 –> 01:47:19.375
multiethnic character of that fight is really fascinating

1683
01:47:19.515 –> 01:47:22.655
to observe. And, of course, some of this what has been known,

1684
01:47:23.435 –> 01:47:27.260
relatively from the beginning. For example, 1 of the first Americans you

1685
01:47:27.260 –> 01:47:30.699
ever learned about in social studies class Right.

1686
01:47:30.780 –> 01:47:34.515
Circa 3rd or Jesan grade was a gentleman, a free

1687
01:47:34.515 –> 01:47:38.195
gentleman named Crispus Attucks Attucks. That’s right. Who was shot by the

1688
01:47:38.195 –> 01:47:41.560
British in Boston. Yep. K. American patriot.

1689
01:47:44.020 –> 01:47:47.545
Yeah. I think I would have certainly, the

1690
01:47:47.545 –> 01:47:50.844
ringleaders would have been, hanged, drawn, and quartered. End of story.

1691
01:47:51.704 –> 01:47:55.545
We learned that 1 of the first cases you learn in law

1692
01:47:55.545 –> 01:47:59.280
school, crim 101, is called Queen

1693
01:47:59.580 –> 01:48:03.420
v Dudley and Stephens. Queen was Queen Victoria. So this

1694
01:48:03.420 –> 01:48:07.199
is after the era that we’re talking about in very many respects

1695
01:48:07.535 –> 01:48:10.975
after the era. So these are people who

1696
01:48:10.975 –> 01:48:14.574
progressives would say, oh, should have been further forward. These are certainly people who had

1697
01:48:14.574 –> 01:48:18.070
a better moral certainly their elites had a better moral grasp of what was going

1698
01:48:18.070 –> 01:48:21.830
on than did the elites during the Hanoverian or Georgian, you

1699
01:48:21.830 –> 01:48:25.270
know, era. But, Queen v Dudley and Stephens is about what

1700
01:48:25.270 –> 01:48:28.745
happens when you’re on a boat and you run out of food and you

1701
01:48:28.745 –> 01:48:32.585
decide that 2 of us need Tom kill the 3rd guy and eat

1702
01:48:32.585 –> 01:48:36.200
them literature. Okay? And

1703
01:48:36.200 –> 01:48:39.320
then what happens when your boat then wanders around and then you guys actually get

1704
01:48:39.320 –> 01:48:43.000
rescued, and then somebody decides to squeal? So they find out,

1705
01:48:43.000 –> 01:48:46.585
oh, you guys killed and ate somebody. So what did they do

1706
01:48:46.585 –> 01:48:49.805
to them? Well, they prosecuted them,

1707
01:48:50.745 –> 01:48:54.520
and then we’re going to execute them. Mhmm. That well, yeah. That’s

1708
01:48:54.520 –> 01:48:57.480
what you do. Right? Oh, so you were suffering on a book. You killed and

1709
01:48:57.480 –> 01:49:01.000
ate somebody. That’s murder. That’s murder. Oh, okay. And so

1710
01:49:01.010 –> 01:49:04.465
literature, I’m just going to make sure

1711
01:49:07.485 –> 01:49:11.325
that I’m correct in the conclusion because it will obviously kill

1712
01:49:11.325 –> 01:49:15.080
it. No pun intended if I’m wrong. Okay?

1713
01:49:16.020 –> 01:49:19.620
But, well and the thing is,

1714
01:49:19.620 –> 01:49:23.325
like, these guys understood who

1715
01:49:23.325 –> 01:49:26.225
they were dealing with, in a really

1716
01:49:27.245 –> 01:49:30.760
Okay. I got it. Way. Yeah. Go ahead. In a really material way. I got

1717
01:49:30.820 –> 01:49:34.580
it. They were sentenced to death. Queen Victoria herself commuted

1718
01:49:34.580 –> 01:49:36.360
their sentences to 6 months.

1719
01:49:38.344 –> 01:49:42.125
So there was some humanity in it, but you notice that the British

1720
01:49:42.265 –> 01:49:45.550
legal system tried, Mhmm.

1721
01:49:45.710 –> 01:49:49.390
Convicted and condemned these men to death. And, of

1722
01:49:49.390 –> 01:49:53.230
course, they murdered the man. Right. That’s actually the

1723
01:49:53.230 –> 01:49:55.535
correct process. It’s just,

1724
01:49:57.355 –> 01:50:01.195
I think it’s easy to

1725
01:50:01.195 –> 01:50:04.770
understand the humanity of it and easy to feel some

1726
01:50:04.770 –> 01:50:08.449
level of empathy. And, also, what I find laudatory is the that

1727
01:50:08.449 –> 01:50:12.150
British sense of remember. It’s about the rules in fair play.

1728
01:50:12.455 –> 01:50:16.135
And this is not according to the rules. Right?

1729
01:50:16.135 –> 01:50:19.655
Right. So there you go. Well, I and, you know, you talk about We’ll get

1730
01:50:19.655 –> 01:50:23.200
hung ground and fourth. We talk about the rules and you talk about fair

1731
01:50:23.200 –> 01:50:26.720
play. It’s interesting to me because I I remember the

1732
01:50:26.720 –> 01:50:30.245
movie, Patton where George c Scott stands in front of that

1733
01:50:30.245 –> 01:50:34.085
giant American flag at the beginning. And he says, you know,

1734
01:50:34.085 –> 01:50:37.385
I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed.

1735
01:50:39.140 –> 01:50:42.740
And that’s a very American to your point, that’s a

1736
01:50:42.740 –> 01:50:45.720
very American concept. Right?

1737
01:50:47.804 –> 01:50:51.165
And 1 of the things that has struck me over the course of doing this

1738
01:50:51.165 –> 01:50:54.990
podcast over the last few years has been readers various books

1739
01:50:55.070 –> 01:50:57.810
of course, reading papers and reading great writing.

1740
01:50:59.150 –> 01:51:02.910
When you read the American portion of the

1741
01:51:02.992 –> 01:51:06.745
Writers canon, The

1742
01:51:06.745 –> 01:51:10.364
sense that you get from the American portion of the Western canon

1743
01:51:11.145 –> 01:51:14.900
is that you

1744
01:51:14.900 –> 01:51:18.440
we are the last inheritors of

1745
01:51:19.300 –> 01:51:22.835
the sense of argumentation that has existed in the

1746
01:51:22.835 –> 01:51:24.935
West going all the way back to

1747
01:51:27.955 –> 01:51:31.440
me even before there was a conception of the West. Right? Mhmm.

1748
01:51:31.880 –> 01:51:34.060
So, you know, you wanna talk about Magna Carta,

1749
01:51:35.480 –> 01:51:39.160
which which was to a certain degree influenced by the

1750
01:51:39.160 –> 01:51:43.005
Crusades. Right. This idea that we are

1751
01:51:43.005 –> 01:51:46.685
going to argue at Vienna all the way to

1752
01:51:46.685 –> 01:51:50.370
the Ottomans showing up before we like the

1753
01:51:50.370 –> 01:51:54.130
trebuchet Tom launch the rotten heads

1754
01:51:54.130 –> 01:51:57.810
at the Islamic invaders. We’re going to argue about it in the

1755
01:51:57.882 –> 01:52:01.355
Jesan. And by the way, we’re damn near going to have fistfights with each

1756
01:52:01.355 –> 01:52:04.955
other about this. But the second that

1757
01:52:04.955 –> 01:52:08.790
we decide, Tom Jordan Peterson’s point that I mentioned at the beginning of this

1758
01:52:08.790 –> 01:52:12.090
podcast, the second we decide click,

1759
01:52:12.710 –> 01:52:16.255
we’re all going in 1 direction. Like, that’s

1760
01:52:16.255 –> 01:52:19.855
it. Like, it’s done. And 1 of the

1761
01:52:19.855 –> 01:52:22.594
interesting things is over the last 80 years

1762
01:52:24.240 –> 01:52:27.540
with the rise in sort of what I call unserious

1763
01:52:27.840 –> 01:52:31.625
people being allowed to be in power and being allowed to have a voice.

1764
01:52:31.625 –> 01:52:35.465
The democratization of unseriousness, if I were if

1765
01:52:35.465 –> 01:52:39.120
I were to point such a phrase, has

1766
01:52:39.120 –> 01:52:42.580
allowed people who don’t want to click together more

1767
01:52:43.280 –> 01:52:46.800
more space to speak and more space to have their their

1768
01:52:46.800 –> 01:52:50.285
ideas or their their lack of their their their internal rebellion

1769
01:52:51.304 –> 01:52:55.065
revealed. Writers. And this is where you get all the isms and

1770
01:52:55.065 –> 01:52:58.290
the ologies that have be doubled us ever since the end of World War 2

1771
01:52:58.290 –> 01:53:01.650
in the West. Mhmm. But there is still a

1772
01:53:01.650 –> 01:53:05.090
fear and it is a legitimate fear. And I think it’s a fear that

1773
01:53:05.090 –> 01:53:08.775
exists in, the other

1774
01:53:08.835 –> 01:53:12.295
alternative polar poles of culture in the world.

1775
01:53:12.515 –> 01:53:15.095
So you talked about India. I think of China.

1776
01:53:16.409 –> 01:53:20.170
You know, the reason that the Chinese stopped no. That’s

1777
01:53:20.170 –> 01:53:23.369
the reason. The only way the Chinese were able to stop the opium trade was

1778
01:53:23.369 –> 01:53:27.115
to boot out every American and Brit they could find. That was their

1779
01:53:27.115 –> 01:53:30.635
only solution to the problem. And by the way, that’s when their continued solution to

1780
01:53:30.635 –> 01:53:33.535
the problem even now, get them out.

1781
01:53:35.010 –> 01:53:38.624
Islam. Islam knows. I mentioned them several times today on the

1782
01:53:38.624 –> 01:53:42.070
podcast, but they know as a philosophy. That’s why

1783
01:53:42.615 –> 01:53:45.435
there’s a reason the Iranians call America the great Satan.

1784
01:53:46.215 –> 01:53:49.895
There’s a reason why. And it’s not because Satan

1785
01:53:49.895 –> 01:53:53.500
deceives. It’s because Satan seduces. It’s the

1786
01:53:53.500 –> 01:53:57.260
seduction of this idea of argumentation all the way to the end

1787
01:53:57.260 –> 01:54:00.905
of something. It’s the seduction of rebellion. And

1788
01:54:00.905 –> 01:54:04.285
the other major holes of civilizational

1789
01:54:05.065 –> 01:54:08.765
construct on the planet know just how,

1790
01:54:09.820 –> 01:54:13.440
I think, seductive that idea can be.

1791
01:54:13.820 –> 01:54:17.260
And we have in America perfected that.

1792
01:54:17.260 –> 01:54:20.975
We’ve sharpened it to its logical conclusion. We’ve

1793
01:54:20.975 –> 01:54:23.395
gotten it to its probably its endpoint,

1794
01:54:26.180 –> 01:54:29.860
Which by the way presents problems for us here in America and in the West

1795
01:54:29.860 –> 01:54:33.540
in general because if you can never click together, you can’t get anything

1796
01:54:33.540 –> 01:54:36.655
done If that click sound doesn’t happen,

1797
01:54:37.755 –> 01:54:41.114
you can’t move forward Now with that being

1798
01:54:41.114 –> 01:54:44.900
said, I don’t think the click sound I think the click sound

1799
01:54:44.900 –> 01:54:48.260
has happened, but I don’t think it’s happened in the

1800
01:54:48.260 –> 01:54:51.940
places where traditionally would have happened over the last 500 years in the West, which

1801
01:54:51.940 –> 01:54:55.615
was in the political realm and in the, and in the

1802
01:54:55.615 –> 01:54:59.375
economic realm. I think now that click sound is beginning to happen

1803
01:54:59.375 –> 01:55:03.160
more and more often in the social and cultural readers. And

1804
01:55:03.160 –> 01:55:06.920
that is a sea change in the West. I don’t think that we’re prepared

1805
01:55:06.920 –> 01:55:10.520
for that yet or the implications of that. And I’m not

1806
01:55:10.520 –> 01:55:13.885
quite sure that a socio or

1807
01:55:13.885 –> 01:55:17.665
cultural West that’s not driven fourth

1808
01:55:18.045 –> 01:55:20.065
where politics and economics are still

1809
01:55:21.780 –> 01:55:25.000
the candy coated shell on top of society and culture,

1810
01:55:25.700 –> 01:55:29.185
where society and culture gets to push up through that and gets to mold that,

1811
01:55:29.185 –> 01:55:32.465
it gets to shape that, it gets to move that move that around like tectonic

1812
01:55:32.465 –> 01:55:36.005
plates. I’m not quite sure that we in the West are ready for the implications

1813
01:55:36.065 –> 01:55:39.560
of that because that click sound is gonna take a heck of a lot longer

1814
01:55:39.560 –> 01:55:43.160
to happen. And when an existential threat does show up, which it

1815
01:55:43.160 –> 01:55:46.775
always does by the way, climate change is not an existential

1816
01:55:46.775 –> 01:55:49.275
threat. Like, I’m not talking about something that’s, like,

1817
01:55:50.455 –> 01:55:52.795
globally so big that it becomes,

1818
01:55:53.960 –> 01:55:56.940
almost a subs a substitute for the transcendent.

1819
01:55:58.119 –> 01:56:01.880
I’m talking about when real human beings with real guns and

1820
01:56:01.880 –> 01:56:05.245
real bombs and a real desire to genocide, you show up.

1821
01:56:06.344 –> 01:56:10.080
Mhmm. The West is in a particular point

1822
01:56:10.080 –> 01:56:13.920
now where there’s just no click sound on what to do about

1823
01:56:13.920 –> 01:56:17.600
that Mhmm. At all those fourth levels that I

1824
01:56:17.600 –> 01:56:20.445
mentioned, political, economic, cultural and social.

1825
01:56:22.185 –> 01:56:25.864
And I used to think that that was a bug in the system that

1826
01:56:25.864 –> 01:56:29.270
needed to be eliminated. But more and more, I’m beginning to believe that that is

1827
01:56:29.430 –> 01:56:33.130
feature of the West and of America in particular.

1828
01:56:33.830 –> 01:56:37.450
And this declaration of independence,

1829
01:56:38.775 –> 01:56:42.535
the reason why we revere it so much is not because

1830
01:56:42.535 –> 01:56:46.295
it describes, quote unquote, democracy fourth, quote unquote, republic

1831
01:56:46.331 –> 01:56:50.000
fourth because it is conservative in its turning, it’s because

1832
01:56:50.000 –> 01:56:52.980
it’s it’s a definitive click sound

1833
01:56:53.680 –> 01:56:57.385
where it says we’re all going to to Benjamin Franklin’s point, we’re

1834
01:56:57.385 –> 01:57:01.225
all gonna hang together or we’re all surely gonna hang separately. So

1835
01:57:01.225 –> 01:57:04.980
you either get on board or you’re or we’re leaving you behind.

1836
01:57:04.980 –> 01:57:07.860
And by the way, a bunch of people who did get left behind, just to

1837
01:57:07.860 –> 01:57:11.615
point this out, when the revolutionary war did start, the loyalists all

1838
01:57:11.615 –> 01:57:15.375
ran to Canada. Fourth went to to

1839
01:57:15.375 –> 01:57:19.170
England. Like Franklin’s son 1 of his sons, William

1840
01:57:19.270 –> 01:57:22.990
Franklin, went Tom England and that was that. They’re

1841
01:57:22.990 –> 01:57:26.745
probably still alive. In fact, on

1842
01:57:26.745 –> 01:57:29.065
the strand in London, I have a photo,

1843
01:57:30.425 –> 01:57:33.865
from some business, and I took it

1844
01:57:33.865 –> 01:57:37.410
because, you know, it’s just there’s things that they don’t tell you

1845
01:57:37.790 –> 01:57:41.470
or show you in school, and I just get a kick out of when you

1846
01:57:41.470 –> 01:57:44.770
come across some of them. Like that name.

1847
01:57:45.095 –> 01:57:48.775
We know Franklin from Ben Franklin, but how many Franklins are

1848
01:57:48.775 –> 01:57:52.295
there still who are still around in the UK? There’s

1849
01:57:52.295 –> 01:57:56.100
Franklins. They’re around. Yep. So

1850
01:57:56.100 –> 01:57:58.920
I found this business on The Strand.

1851
01:57:59.940 –> 01:58:03.160
Yes. Jesan s Franklin Limited. 151,

1852
01:58:04.105 –> 01:58:07.945
The Strand. London w whatever w

1853
01:58:07.945 –> 01:58:10.905
1 whatever blah blah blah. I have no idea who they are. I don’t know

1854
01:58:10.905 –> 01:58:14.650
what their business is. But when I saw it, I took the

1855
01:58:14.650 –> 01:58:18.090
photo because what it made me think of, of course, is, oh, William Franklin went

1856
01:58:18.090 –> 01:58:20.989
over there. Maybe these people are his descendants. That’s actually a possibility.

1857
01:58:21.610 –> 01:58:24.765
Yeah. And yeah. It’s,

1858
01:58:25.805 –> 01:58:29.565
something that president Washington said in his farewell. Right? Talked

1859
01:58:29.565 –> 01:58:33.180
about how no alliances are permanent. Mhmm. Part

1860
01:58:33.239 –> 01:58:37.000
of that, sentiment, it’s the other side

1861
01:58:37.000 –> 01:58:40.125
of the coin. It’s that the real antagonisms

1862
01:58:41.065 –> 01:58:44.585
are temporary, you know, and especially if fought well. Okay?

1863
01:58:44.585 –> 01:58:48.230
Mhmm. Because some of our greatest allies are the Germans and the

1864
01:58:48.230 –> 01:58:51.530
Japanese. We fought them to the death. Mhmm. No.

1865
01:58:51.750 –> 01:58:55.590
Sorry. We fought them to surrender Right.

1866
01:58:55.830 –> 01:58:59.615
Not fight them to the death. That was an ethic

1867
01:58:59.675 –> 01:59:03.515
coming out of their cultures, but not 1 that came

1868
01:59:03.515 –> 01:59:06.930
out of this culture. Mhmm. And I think that that,

1869
01:59:07.490 –> 01:59:10.210
we’re all benefiting from that. You know? Yeah. I if I’m

1870
01:59:11.250 –> 01:59:14.175
if I were speaking directly to them, I don’t think there’s any shame that they

1871
01:59:14.175 –> 01:59:17.855
would need to feel, today over the fact that we beat them. Thank god we

1872
01:59:17.855 –> 01:59:21.614
beat them. Yeah. I think they would have. Magnanimous and help them

1873
01:59:21.614 –> 01:59:25.230
grow. You know. Then we could be magnanimous and help them grow. And

1874
01:59:25.230 –> 01:59:27.949
also the evil they were doing, we put you in it. So there you go.

1875
01:59:27.949 –> 01:59:30.989
Well, the greatest thing the greatest thing that came out And if it’s us 1

1876
01:59:30.989 –> 01:59:34.825
day if it’s us 1 day, what should we hope for?

1877
01:59:34.825 –> 01:59:38.345
You know? The right kind of enemy. Well, the the greatest thing that came out

1878
01:59:38.345 –> 01:59:41.550
the end of World War 2 was Bretton Books. The Bretton Woods agreement,

1879
01:59:42.030 –> 01:59:45.790
where we all we, the United States and what was

1880
01:59:45.790 –> 01:59:49.525
left of Europe, including de Gaulle, who, as I said on this

1881
01:59:49.525 –> 01:59:53.205
podcast before, Truman thought was psychotic, sat

1882
01:59:53.205 –> 01:59:55.065
down. I always have to point that out.

1883
01:59:57.570 –> 02:00:01.330
De Gaulle and Churchill Stalin didn’t get invited to

1884
02:00:01.330 –> 02:00:04.370
Bretton Books, but, you know, we all sat around in the

1885
02:00:04.412 –> 02:00:07.965
Jesan said, how are we going to construct a world

1886
02:00:07.965 –> 02:00:11.325
order where everybody gets to play

1887
02:00:11.325 –> 02:00:13.745
fair Tom to your point about British

1888
02:00:14.920 –> 02:00:18.600
law, where everybody gets to play fair and according to the rules. And instead

1889
02:00:18.600 –> 02:00:22.200
of taking your territory, we as Americans are going to

1890
02:00:22.200 –> 02:00:25.855
allow you and this was the key Tom. This is the key

1891
02:00:25.855 –> 02:00:29.375
idea that came out of Bretton Woods. We’re going to allow you to

1892
02:00:29.375 –> 02:00:33.090
sell to us everything you have and

1893
02:00:33.090 –> 02:00:36.470
twice on Sundays. As a matter of fact, we’ll go a step further.

1894
02:00:36.850 –> 02:00:39.890
This is a little bit later, but we’ll go a step further and we’ll start

1895
02:00:39.890 –> 02:00:43.045
sending you the factories that make the factories that make the things you sell us.

1896
02:00:43.744 –> 02:00:47.585
And some kid in Indiana can take it in the neck for the

1897
02:00:47.585 –> 02:00:50.930
next 3 generations so that your economy can get better.

1898
02:00:52.050 –> 02:00:55.350
But we’ll never get a thank you for Bretton Woods. Matter of fact,

1899
02:00:57.490 –> 02:01:01.065
all we will get is reprobation for anything that we can

1900
02:01:01.465 –> 02:01:04.505
for the for for for the for all the negatives that came out of Bretton

1901
02:01:04.505 –> 02:01:08.125
Woods up to I mean, the Korean War, Vietnam War,

1902
02:01:08.360 –> 02:01:11.500
globalization, all of those kinds of things.

1903
02:01:13.000 –> 02:01:16.140
The positives are never acknowledged when it comes to that

1904
02:01:16.595 –> 02:01:19.815
because the United States was just expected

1905
02:01:20.675 –> 02:01:24.295
80 years later to behave like a magnanimous father.

1906
02:01:25.000 –> 02:01:28.840
And that was there’s nothing in the history of the world that indicates that the

1907
02:01:28.840 –> 02:01:32.520
United States had to behave that way. As a matter of fact, when the

1908
02:01:32.520 –> 02:01:36.065
Europeans and, to a certain degree, the Japanese

1909
02:01:36.284 –> 02:01:37.745
showed up at Bretton Woods,

1910
02:01:40.205 –> 02:01:43.505
they were in shock that the Americans behaved

1911
02:01:43.800 –> 02:01:47.560
not like old school colonialists, but instead behaved as if

1912
02:01:47.560 –> 02:01:51.345
they were building Mhmm. And this will be the first time I say

1913
02:01:51.345 –> 02:01:54.565
these words on the podcast as if they were building a new world order,

1914
02:01:55.505 –> 02:01:59.045
an actual new world order.

1915
02:01:59.265 –> 02:01:59.765
Mhmm.

1916
02:02:03.320 –> 02:02:07.000
That only comes out of a people who have

1917
02:02:07.000 –> 02:02:10.645
been marinating in freedom that

1918
02:02:10.645 –> 02:02:13.785
where the where the the the the the

1919
02:02:14.965 –> 02:02:18.400
cornerstone of that set by these words

1920
02:02:18.400 –> 02:02:20.740
here in the Declaration of Independence.

1921
02:02:24.215 –> 02:02:27.975
Think we pulled this apart today. Any final thoughts on the Declaration

1922
02:02:27.975 –> 02:02:31.735
of Independence, D’Arlo? What can leaders learn from this

1923
02:02:31.735 –> 02:02:35.210
document? What can they take from the declaration as a mission

1924
02:02:35.210 –> 02:02:38.730
statement, as a vision statement? Actually, it’s a vision statement because the mission statement is

1925
02:02:38.730 –> 02:02:41.310
really the constitution. This is a vision statement.

1926
02:02:42.485 –> 02:02:45.005
Book can leaders take from this vision statement?

1927
02:02:46.105 –> 02:02:49.485
Particularly the 32 year olds that are out. Understand. The 30 year old millennials.

1928
02:02:50.160 –> 02:02:53.620
The 30 year old millennials are on TikTok. How can they take from this

1929
02:02:54.880 –> 02:02:58.720
now? You know? But, see, the book not have been surprised by

1930
02:02:58.720 –> 02:03:02.215
that, and he wouldn’t necessarily have been troubled by that, I think, either.

1931
02:03:03.555 –> 02:03:07.390
I don’t know how Jefferson would have felt about it, but he would have written

1932
02:03:07.390 –> 02:03:10.910
back to them. He would be on there tweeting all day. He would would have

1933
02:03:10.910 –> 02:03:13.390
lost his mind because he’d be what do you do all day? I just tweet

1934
02:03:13.390 –> 02:03:17.235
people. I tweet back to people with their I just tweet tweet tweet tweet all

1935
02:03:17.235 –> 02:03:21.075
freaking day on x all day. But

1936
02:03:21.325 –> 02:03:24.869
yeah. There’s so much in it. It’s

1937
02:03:24.869 –> 02:03:28.389
so nuanced. I definitely recommend reading the

1938
02:03:28.389 –> 02:03:31.845
excise bits because there’s still that that bit on

1939
02:03:32.165 –> 02:03:35.765
slavery is probably the best indictment of

1940
02:03:35.765 –> 02:03:39.285
slavery in American letters, period, before

1941
02:03:39.285 –> 02:03:42.620
the civil war era, period. It’s just it’s fabulous.

1942
02:03:44.200 –> 02:03:47.880
Now the simplest and most elegant would be

1943
02:03:47.880 –> 02:03:51.455
what the Quakers in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania said

1944
02:03:51.455 –> 02:03:54.895
in 17 12, which was the first public

1945
02:03:54.895 –> 02:03:58.340
protest of free people against

1946
02:03:58.340 –> 02:04:02.179
slavery, in in in the Atlantic world as

1947
02:04:02.179 –> 02:04:05.905
far as I know. And it’s just

1948
02:04:05.905 –> 02:04:09.665
really straightforward. Just straightforward Christian principles. Yeah. There you go. It

1949
02:04:09.665 –> 02:04:13.160
could be said in a sentence or 2 and that’s it. You know, unlike, you

1950
02:04:13.160 –> 02:04:16.860
know, this this majestic flowing wave

1951
02:04:17.000 –> 02:04:20.679
of prose that is meant to carry

1952
02:04:20.679 –> 02:04:24.455
with it the sense of the

1953
02:04:24.515 –> 02:04:28.275
overwhelming evil of slavery. Mhmm.

1954
02:04:28.275 –> 02:04:32.080
The sense of the hypocrisy that this is what a Christian

1955
02:04:32.080 –> 02:04:35.440
king was fomenting. The word

1956
02:04:35.440 –> 02:04:38.580
is literally italicized in the notes.

1957
02:04:40.905 –> 02:04:44.425
Brilliant. So yes. No. This I love this document. I love that our country was

1958
02:04:44.425 –> 02:04:48.265
founded with such a piece of such a piece of

1959
02:04:48.265 –> 02:04:51.560
words. You know,

1960
02:04:51.940 –> 02:04:55.400
but it does beg the question. You know?

1961
02:04:56.500 –> 02:04:58.600
How do you pull how do you hold together a nation

1962
02:04:59.985 –> 02:05:03.665
that no longer can agree about why we

1963
02:05:03.665 –> 02:05:07.185
exist, what we’re meant to do? We had so many

1964
02:05:07.185 –> 02:05:10.850
differences, and we adhered fine. You know? Mhmm. I

1965
02:05:10.850 –> 02:05:13.909
remembered again why I brought up Crispus at Tux.

1966
02:05:17.205 –> 02:05:20.665
There were other black men who fought and certainly fought later and were in

1967
02:05:21.364 –> 02:05:24.965
revolutionary armies even against the objection of that great American

1968
02:05:24.965 –> 02:05:28.740
George Washington still ended up bringing in blacks.

1969
02:05:28.740 –> 02:05:32.360
Okay? Writers, Felisa. And

1970
02:05:33.060 –> 02:05:36.645
what I’m talking about though is what what were their motivations?

1971
02:05:37.825 –> 02:05:41.425
If you just got freed, why aren’t you trying to get as many goods as

1972
02:05:41.425 –> 02:05:44.310
you can and head as far west as you could away from all these people?

1973
02:05:45.030 –> 02:05:48.710
Right. You tolerated all the nonsense. Why weren’t you

1974
02:05:48.710 –> 02:05:52.310
buying a ship and sailing back to Africa? No. You were getting a

1975
02:05:52.310 –> 02:05:55.824
gun and joining neighbors who didn’t free you

1976
02:05:56.045 –> 02:05:57.824
to fight for freedom. Wow.

1977
02:06:01.110 –> 02:06:03.830
What does that tell me about freedom? You know, what does that tell me about

1978
02:06:03.830 –> 02:06:07.590
this great nation? Very good things. You know, very

1979
02:06:07.590 –> 02:06:11.065
good things. Very good things. So Declaration of

1980
02:06:11.065 –> 02:06:14.505
Independence 2024. And with

1981
02:06:14.505 –> 02:06:18.185
that, I’d like to thank DiRolo for coming on the Leadership Lessons from the

1982
02:06:18.185 –> 02:06:21.550
Great Books podcast. And as I usually say at this

1983
02:06:21.550 –> 02:06:24.929
point, well, we’re out.