Leadership Lessons From The Great Books – The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre Dumas w/Christen Blair Horne

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Also traumatic.

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

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Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode

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number 112.

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In this episode today, we are going to

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start covering what is truly a massive

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book. Now it is a serialized story or

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collection with serialized story, featuring intrigue,

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adventure, romance, pathos, and everything else. The

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entire spectrum of human emotion is in this book. And

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it is all set against the background of the French Revolution

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and the aftermath of the actions across the

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flat pan of Europe from the buzzsaw known as Napoleon

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Bonaparte. This book is so massive, I’m going to be

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honest, I didn’t get through it, but that’s okay

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because our guest today did. As a matter

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of fact, just like War and Peace by Leo

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Tolstoy, which we barely covered in part 1 of in episode number 104, which

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you should go listen to that. By the way, that’s the most downloaded episode so

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far this season. Excellent. This book is so deep and involved

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that I I think we’re only gonna get through barely the first part of it

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today. Matter of fact, that’s all I planned for. And that’s okay because we’ll have

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our guests back to talk about this book in the future

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because I am going to finish it. It’s sort of 1 of my

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missions for this year. Today, we will be

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summarizing and analyzing the themes that are embedded for leaders

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in the first part of the

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fourth page phone book of a novel. And By the way,

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that does include annotations and notes and bibliography at the end.

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The Count of Monte Cristo by Alexandre

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or Alexandre, depending upon your perspective and your level of

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French, Leaders,

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revenge may be a dish best served cold, but make sure

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that if you go down that road, it works on the victim

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you’ve selected successfully.

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And today, we are joined in our journey down this

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leadership path with the count of Montecristo

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by our returning guest cohost, Kristen

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Horn. How are you doing, Kristen? Hello. I am doing well.

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Yes. Kristen is, has had a has had a bunch of life changes. It’s been

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a year since she was on the podcast. What episode were you on? Do you

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remember with us initially? I don’t remember the number. We were doing Ender’s

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Game. Yes. We did Ender’s Game. That’s right. Yeah. Yes. That’s correct. We’re since Scott

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Card. You should go back and listen to that episode. I don’t remember the number

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either. Yeah. Yeah. But we are

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going to get started in The Count of Montecristo. By the way, it

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is an open source book, which is great. You can actually

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go and get it, online if you want. So we will be

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reading directly from, well, from

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my version of the open source book known as The Count of Monte

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Cristo. And we are going to start with chapter 1. I love

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saying this word, Marseille, arrival.

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On February fourth, 18 15, the lookout at Notre Dame de Lagarde signaled

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the arrival of the 3 master Phaheron coming from

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Smyrna, Trieste, and Naples. As usual, a

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coastal pilot immediately left the port, sailed hard by the Chateau

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d’If, and boarded the ship between the Cap Des Morgueux and the

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island of Ryus. And once, as was also

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customary, the terrace of Port Saint Jean was thronged with onlookers

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because the arrival of a ship is always a great event in Marseille, particularly when

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the vessel, like the Pharaon, has been built, fitted out, and laded in the

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shipyards of the old port and belongs to an owner from the town.

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Meanwhile, the ship was drawing near and had successfully negotiated the narrows created by some

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volcanic upheaval between the islands of Pausare and Carre

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and rounded Palmegueux it was proceeded under its 3 Sorrells, its outer

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jib, and its spanker, but slowly and with such melancholy progress that

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bystanders, instinctively sensing some misfortune, wondered what the accident

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could have occurred on board. Nevertheless, those who were

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experts in nautical manners acknowledged that if there had been such an

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accident, it could not have affected the vessel itself, fourth its progress gave every indication

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of a ship under perfect control. The anchor was ready to drop, and the bowspirit

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shrouds loosed. Next to the pilot, who was preparing to guide the Pharaon through the

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narrow entrance to the port of Marseille, saw a young man, alert and sharp eyed,

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supervising every moment movement of the ship and repeating each of the

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pilot’s commands. 1 of the spectators on the terrace

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of Fourth Saint Jean had been particularly affected by the vague sense of unease

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that hovered among them so much so that he could not wait for the vessel

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to come to land. He left into a small boat and ordered it to erode

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out to the Pharaon, coming alongside opposite the cove of Blaise Veuve. When he saw

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the man approaching, the young sailor left his place behind beside the pilot and, kind

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in hand, came and lent on the bulwarks of the ship.

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He was a young man of between 18/20, tall, slim, with fine dark eyes, and

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ebony black hair. His whole demeanor possessed the calm and

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resolve peculiar to men who have been accustomed from childhood to

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wrestle with danger. Ah, it is you, Dantes, the man in the

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boat cried. What has happened, and why is there this air of rejection all about

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the about all on board? A great misfortune,

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Monsignon Sorrells, the young man replied. A great misfortune, especially for

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me. While off of Civitivica, we lost our good captain

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Leclerc. And the cargo? The shipowner answered brusquely.

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It has come safe to port Majumarel, but I think you will be content on

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that score, but poor captain Leclerc. What happened to him then? The

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shipowner asked, visibly relieved. So what happened to the good captain?

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He is dead. Lost, overboard? No, monsieur. He died of

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an apoplectic fever and terrible agony. Then turning back to his

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crew, he said, look lively there. Hurry man to his station and drop anchor.

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The crew obeyed. As 1 man, the 8 or 10 of the sailors

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of which it was composed, left, some to the sheets, nose to the braces, others

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to the halyards, nose to the gym, and still nose to the brails. The young

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sailor glanced casually at the start of his operation and, seeing that his orders were

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being carried out, prepared to resume the conversation. But how did

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this misfortune occur? Leadership owner continued, picking up where the young man had left off.

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By heaven, won’t you, in the most unexpected way imaginable. After a long

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conversation with the commander of the port commander of the port, captain Leclair left

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Naples in a state of great agitation. 24 hours later, he was seized with

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fever, and 3 days after that, he was dead. We gave him the customary

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funeral, and now he rests decently wrapped in a hammock with a

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36 pound cannonball at his feet and another at his head off the island

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of Giglaud. We brought his medal and his sword back for his widow.

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Much good it did him, the young man continued with a melancholy smile,

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to fight the war against the English for 10 years

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only to die at last, like anyone else, in

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his bed. A

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writers out of Monte Cristo, a fellow named Alexandre

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Dumas, born July 24,

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1802, died December 5, 18 70, was a

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French novelist and playwright. His works have been translated

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into many languages, and he is 1 of the most widely read French authors

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probably in French history, outside of, you know,

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those authors of political treaties or philosophical ones like the

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Derridas or the de Tocquevilles or the,

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Rousseaus of the world. Since the early 20th

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century, his novels have been adapted into nearly 200

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different variations of film. As a matter of fact, you’ve probably seen the

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film, the Count of Monte Cristo, long before reading the

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book, the Count of Monte Cristo. 1. 0, it doesn’t

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really matter. So many variations. I mean, this

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book is 1 of those books that has that has that has

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that has buried itself into the DNA of the West,

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not just America, the West. You can go to, like,

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Jesan, and they know what the Count of Monte Cristo is. You can go to

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probably Japan, and they know what the Count of Monte Cristo is.

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Dumas was prolific in several genres, and he began his career by writing plays,

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which were successfully produced from the first. He wrote numerous magazine

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articles and travel books and published works totaling 100, 000

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pages. As a matter of fact, this guy was also an entrepreneur and a marketer,

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and he hired other people to ghostwrite yeah. I see you,

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James Patterson. Ghostwrite some of his

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books er, allegedly.

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His father, general Thomas Alexandre Dumas Davy de

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la Palatiere, was born in the French colony of Santo

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Domingo, the president day present day Haiti, du

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Alexandre Antoine Davy de la Briatier, a French nobleman,

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and Marie Jesan Dumas, an African slave. And

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so what this means is that Alexandre Dumas was

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actually we don’t like using this word, but I’m gonna go ahead and use it

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anyway. He was, technically speaking, a mulatto.

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That means he was of mixed race origin.

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Everybody gets upset when you say the word mulatto. They get really upset when you

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say the word quadroon. Anyway,

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Alexander acquired work with Louis Philippe Duco Sorrells.

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Then as a writer, he became a writers, over the course of

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time, and, he created a career

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that led to much early success. Remember I said he was a marketer?

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That was part of the reason why he serialized his novels over the long period

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of time. And he wrote many, many and

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created a modernized version of many, many modern myths

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that we just take for granted now, such as the 3 Musketeers,

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the D’Artagnan romances, which has also been turned into several

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films, and, of course, even a film that played at my house a couple of

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weeks ago with Kevin Costner, that was the virgin I saw,

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Robin Hood.

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English playwright, Watts Phillips, who knew DeMott later in his life, described

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him as the most generous, largehearted being in the world.

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He was also the most delightfully amusing and egotistical creature on the face of

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the Earth. His tongue was like a windmill. Once set in motion,

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you would never know when he would stop, especially if the

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theme, was himself. I

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love that, by the way. Back in the day, people really knew how to get

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after each other, particularly writers I mean, writerly

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disputes, which is 1 of the things that we’re all missing was the Twitterization of

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our world. Although I think Dumas would have loved Twitter. Probably. All about

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oh my god. Like, YouTube, Twitter. He would have been all about that life. He’d

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been like, oh, I can go to scale with all of this, and I can

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Right. Meet Tom everyone. Oh, please. Where do I sign up? Get me get

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me there now. Be

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dominating. Oh my god. He’d be running everybody out of the room.

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So, Kristen, let’s start off with and you were the 1 that recommended

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we read The Count of Monte Cristo. You were the 1 that recommended this this

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books. And so I’m reading this book not under duress, but under your recommendation.

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And so Is that how you read the rest of your books? No. No. No.

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No. No. No. I do I do warranties to myself. It’s fine. It’s whatever.

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I’m I’m the lady myself on the on the, you know, horns of Tolstoy.

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No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. And you know, it’s interesting.

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So over the course of the last month, we’ve been covering a lot

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of books, like Harper Lee’s To Kill a Mockingbird, we covered that this

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month. Oh, it’s a great 1. Yes it is. We also,

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talked a little bit about, and covered the book Night by Eli

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Weisel, Podcast literature. Later on this month,

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towards the end of this month, We’ll be looking at,

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Eichmann in Jerusalem by Hannah Arendt, Meditation on the

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Banality of Evil. And 1 of the things that unites all of those

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books, whether it’s Anne or or or the Hannah Arendt,

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or Harper Lee or even,

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well, either 1 of those 2 authors. We’ll use those 2 as as his sort

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of points along with the count of Monte Cristo and, Alexandre

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Dumas’s work. 1 of the things that unites those works together

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is how or the idea of

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how a person, particularly a male,

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develops a moral compass. You see Atticus Finch’s moral

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compass in To Kill A Mockingbird. Eli Weisel

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developed a moral compass in the horrors of the podcast,

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at the age of 16 when he was dumped into a concentration camp.

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When you look at Hannah Arendt’s work and her

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analysis of Eichmann’s trial in Jerusalem, the last of the

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Nuremberg trials book in the 19 sixties,

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you you realize that Eichmann struggled to

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have a moral in the first place, which is kind of 1 of the more

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amazing things that you ever see in a human being.

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And then in the count of Monte Cristo, the driver

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for this is revenge, of course,

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which comes from a place of a lack of moral compass. It comes from envy

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and jealousy and all of this. Now in the first

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part of the book is the setup. Right? Oh, and

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and and by the way, Dumas gives a lot of different motives for people. We’re

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gonna get into the motives of, like, Danglers and other folks here today. We’re gonna

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we’re gonna we’re gonna kinda pull a little bit of that part. But I want

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you to talk about The Count of Monte Cristo, why you recommended this book, why

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readers should should spend time slogging through this phone book of a book fourth even

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just listening to this episode about it, which is just the first part, by the

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way. We’re not even we’re gonna come out, like, maybe the first, like, 5 chapters

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maybe. I mean, I 50 chapter book. I have a confession,

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though. See, this is the copy that I read in high school, and I

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loved it so much that I just went and bought the same copy, and it’s

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been in my library for years. But it is a

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bridge.

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And I will No. Let’s put in the work over here. So I’m just

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putting the work. It’s okay. No. You’re reading, like, the first type pages and I’m

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following along. I’m like, yeah. That was a page and a half for me.

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So Got the edited version. Yeah.

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Yeah. Get out all those extra words. Which I don’t know, Dimash probably would not

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have liked that part, by the way. He would not have liked the decline of

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literate, like, ability or

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attention span. He would not have been a fan of that. Well, I remember my

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because I the first time I read it was back in my, like, advanced English

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class in high school. And I remember my English teacher kinda summarizing

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what was left out by the in the in the abridgment. And I

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remember thinking, okay. That’s probably not important.

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So I don’t know. We you know, when when I come back for us to

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finish this, we’ll have to I’ll have to go find the unabridged and see if

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I can I will hold up? So I’m gonna hold up my unabridged copy. It’s

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a Penguin Classics unabridged copy, Normaio. Oh my

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god. It’s No. No. Oh,

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yes. When I looked at it Tom month old. I

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I’m not demanding. I never demand a guest to see a thing that I would

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not do myself, to paraphrase from Jay z.

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So why did I I mean, I just I remember loving this book.

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For me, it really 1 of the reasons that I like fiction in general,

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my Sorrells, my Sorrells, like the book that I like is it

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has a lot, to do with my moral compass and

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how, you know, like my worldview and stuff. And in this book,

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the bad guys all get their just desserts. Right? Yes. It’s vengeance and

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there’s a lot more conversation about, like, vengeance and

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satisfaction and whether worth pursuing and all that. But

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the people that this guy takes out are genuinely bad

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people. Mhmm. And so it just feels really

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good to watch them to watch him take

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them down, not, but

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in very unobvious ways. He basically lets them

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kill themselves. Mhmm. Like, he just leads them all to

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ruin, but through their own natures. Right.

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And that’s fascinating to watch. So just it’s it’s

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very cleverly done. It’s very subtle. And

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well, in that regard, in how he leads them to their

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destruction. In other regards, you know, you read this book and you’re

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like, well, that’s a literary cliche now, and that is too.

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And I it definitely got me thinking through this this most recent

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read through. It’s like, I wonder obviously, it was ridiculously

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popular. Oh, yeah. I mean, it was serialized. Like, it was

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insane. But I, you know, I trained 10 years as an opera singer and,

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like, the version of Carmen that we have right now,

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the the composer considered it pop,

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like drivel. He he was he was so upset by

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the, you know, the the artistic merit

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that ended up being successful as in there there was none. He’s

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like, here, this is what the people want, but this is trash. This is not

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what I wanted to write. And then Tchaikovsky

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said the same thing about his most popular ballet, The Nutcracker. Mhmm. He just

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it’s he just called it he called it bombol. Right? Just sweet,

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sickly sweet. And so that got me thinking about this book.

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It was ridiculously popular, but I you know,

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like I said, I have a 3 month old, so I didn’t have a time

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to go in and look like, hey. Was this, like,

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considered sophisticated and, like, were the the great minds of

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the time reading this and and thinking about it, or was it just

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a a book for the masses? Mhmm. And that’s why we still read

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it today. And, right, what’s it’s almost, I I

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read it in an English class, so I almost feel like it might be and

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we’re discussing it on this podcast. So it’s like it’s asking the question almost sacrilege,

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like, does this book have literary merit? Well well

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okay. No. No. No. Well, we’re a literature podcast, and we’re a leadership podcast. We

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kinda merge those 2 things together. So, yes, it has literature think. It has

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literary merit and leadership merit. Oh, I do too. It was just funny. The

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question popped into my head. It was like, wow. Well, so my kid,

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my my youngest daughter, who’s 14, she’s reading up

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Scott Fitzgerald’s Leadership the Night. And I we

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were talking about this in a and doesn’t matter the context, but we were having

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a conversation about this book. And I said to her, you

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know, f Scott Fitzgerald would really be irritable that the Great Gatsby is being

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read by high school students if he were still alive. Like, he’d be he would

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be irritated by this. This would drive him over. I

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think he would well, but he would consider it to be an artistic failure. So

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you talk about, you know, Carmen fourth you talk about

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Tchaikowsky. Right? There’s and you’re you’re

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you’re I mean, I want you to talk a little bit about your background or

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my folks of your background in your writing and all that. You’re creating

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work. I create work. Mhmm. And then there’s so there’s this gap

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between and you even mentioned it. What the people want versus

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what might be artistic and might be, like, mature. Great

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struggle. What’s Yeah. How do you how do you right. Yeah. How

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do you how do you as a creator cross that gap? And we’ll

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talk about him, boss, in a minute. Because I think he crossed that gap by

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serialization. I think that’s how he crossed that gap. Yeah.

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And you can look at the Internet as a massive serialization

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machine, but so many people have turned it into

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massive clickbait machine, which I think would drive I think that part, of

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course, would drive Jamal crazy as well. I think would also drive Tchaikowsky

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crazy as well. He would have a problem with massive problem with Taylor Swift. He

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just would. He’d be like, I don’t like her. And I have a massive

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problem with Taylor Swift, especially when she is being

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compared to Shakespeare. Yeah. That’s a

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British accent. That headline, and I was like I

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was appalled. I was like, look. I I

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I’m not reading what you’re reading, Hayson. That stuff, I’m like, that scares

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me. I’m just gonna stay in my little fantasy world.

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But when I saw that, I I

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rolled over in my own grave.

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Like that no. There cannot be German professors

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that actually think that’s true. But this is this is the so so there’s a

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fund wow. Okay. So let’s I I wanna that’s another idea. Right? I don’t

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wanna. Yeah. Let’s no. No. No. No. So the gap

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between what people want versus art, how do you cross that gap? And talk a

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little bit about your background. What, like, what do you do? I mean, that’s the

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I mean, I think the opera world right now is doesn’t know how to answer

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that question. Mhmm. Because opera, I

336
00:21:52,150 –> 00:21:55,815
think, is dying. And it partially and in

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sorry. In part because of marketing. In part because,

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oh, actually, this we will we’ll talk a little bit about this leaders, is the

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00:22:03,935 –> 00:22:07,760
people that are in charge are very stubborn and stuck in their ways,

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and they don’t want to innovate. Mhmm. Right? So there’s a little bit of 2

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things going on, which is a real shame because the art form is

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magnificent. It’s basically the Olympics of

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what the human voice is capable of.

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And then the Sorrells, even though, like, the style of singing

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estranges people a little bit, but the stories are so relatable still.

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And so it’s just yeah. It’s but but the the industry is

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a they don’t know how to answer that question. Oh, except there is

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1, little house little house.

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That’s, you know, upper house. There’s 1 company in LA

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that is doing actually really well Mhmm.

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00:22:50,675 –> 00:22:54,375
Tom making at making the

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stories, the operas, like, accessible. Mhmm.

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And so that’s but while keeping most of the

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and I say most of the the integrity. Because I we’ve

355
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definitely had people go to those operas, be like,

356
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that’s not what that The they’ll look at the the super titles, straight the translations,

357
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be like, that’s not Yep. That’s not the right translation.

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If I saw that in a beginner opera singer’s notebook, I’d slap

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00:23:22,585 –> 00:23:26,184
her hand. Okay. So opera. Okay. So let’s let’s 1 of my good friends, he

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does opera, and I did a jazz festival locally in my town, and I’m a

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huge fan of jazz genre and and all of that kind of stuff.

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And so the guy who we handed the the the committee that we handed off

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to, the person who heads it is a is a professionally trained opera singer. And

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00:23:40,894 –> 00:23:44,680
so it’s interesting to watch him kind of navigate this because jazz is not

365
00:23:44,680 –> 00:23:47,640
opera and opera is not jazz. Like, those are 2 different they’re 2 different things.

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00:23:47,640 –> 00:23:51,480
Right? There’s 1 that Gershwin wrote. I mean, there’s Porgy and Bess.

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There’s Porgy and Bess. Yep. But has that, like, really what he Yeah.

368
00:23:55,174 –> 00:23:58,215
We got nothing. The the the the 2 don’t. They don’t make sweet beautiful music.

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00:23:58,215 –> 00:24:02,054
Not really. Yeah. They could maybe they could. Maybe they

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00:24:02,054 –> 00:24:05,610
could. Maybe they should be exciting. Right. Right. Right. Exactly. Maybe we should maybe we

371
00:24:05,610 –> 00:24:09,210
should have a. You know? Like, maybe friends Some

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00:24:09,210 –> 00:24:13,004
detente. Right? Like, between the Russians and this and the Americans in the cold war.

373
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Like, why can’t we just have detente? Why can’t we just have that?

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00:24:17,325 –> 00:24:20,380
There’s 2 movies that I think of when I think of opera and I think

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00:24:20,380 –> 00:24:23,900
of this idea of integrity and art. I think of

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Whiplash, and then I think of Tom, which

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00:24:27,355 –> 00:24:30,395
recently came out. We talked about that last time. It’s We talked about it last

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00:24:30,395 –> 00:24:32,875
time. Still haven’t watched it. You still haven’t watched it. It’s okay. You you got

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00:24:32,875 –> 00:24:36,510
a 3 month old. It’s fine. You got a lot of things going on. And

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00:24:36,510 –> 00:24:39,390
I don’t I don’t wanna go back to that. Instead, what I wanna what I

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00:24:39,390 –> 00:24:43,230
wanna say is I think both of those films represent the

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00:24:43,230 –> 00:24:46,645
attempt by you you pointed out that there are folks who are stubborn who don’t

383
00:24:46,645 –> 00:24:49,684
wanna change. I don’t think it’s that they’re stubborn and don’t wanna change. I think

384
00:24:49,684 –> 00:24:53,370
they’re so committed to quality that they don’t

385
00:24:53,370 –> 00:24:56,990
see a way to bring that commitment into the new thing.

386
00:24:57,370 –> 00:25:01,065
And I think that’s really hard for people of all genres because what they don’t

387
00:25:01,065 –> 00:25:04,825
realize is the new thing is going to make new demands in different ways of

388
00:25:04,825 –> 00:25:08,490
quality. Mhmm. Whereas that if you hold on to

389
00:25:08,490 –> 00:25:12,330
the old ways of maintaining gatekeeping, if we’re gonna use

390
00:25:12,330 –> 00:25:16,105
that term Mhmm. Gatekeeping quality, you’re right. You’re not

391
00:25:16,105 –> 00:25:19,725
free to go to those other places where you can still gatekeep

392
00:25:19,865 –> 00:25:22,825
in different ways. Like like, the the the

393
00:25:25,530 –> 00:25:28,330
and I essays a lot about these women. But say what you want about the

394
00:25:28,330 –> 00:25:31,450
Kardashians, and I say a lot of negative things about them. I real I do.

395
00:25:31,450 –> 00:25:34,590
But 1 of the things they do really well is they gatekeep that brand.

396
00:25:35,755 –> 00:25:39,595
They do. They gatekeep the hell out of that sucker. Like, you have people who

397
00:25:39,595 –> 00:25:43,035
come into that brand. I’ll use Bruce

398
00:25:43,035 –> 00:25:46,700
Jenner as an example, who do not come out the other side of it the

399
00:25:46,700 –> 00:25:50,160
same as when they entered the gate. And I’ll just leave it at that.

400
00:25:53,545 –> 00:25:57,305
Lamar Odom was a basketball player who got mixed up with those

401
00:25:57,305 –> 00:26:01,090
those young ladies. He went into the gate 1 way and he came out another

402
00:26:01,470 –> 00:26:05,250
way. And and, of course, the biggest example

403
00:26:05,309 –> 00:26:08,769
other than mister Bruce Jenner, the former mister Bruce Jenner,

404
00:26:08,875 –> 00:26:11,055
is, the current Kanye West.

405
00:26:13,035 –> 00:26:16,815
He came up to be totally different. Those women are a buzz saw,

406
00:26:17,470 –> 00:26:20,830
and they are maintaining quality, book, bad, ugly, or

407
00:26:20,830 –> 00:26:24,430
different inside of that thing. And they’re doing it in that new

408
00:26:24,430 –> 00:26:28,144
media space in a different kind of way than they would have

409
00:26:28,144 –> 00:26:31,904
had to have done in the 19 fifties. Oh, yeah. Then Marilyn Monroe

410
00:26:31,904 –> 00:26:34,325
did it. Mhmm. Or,

411
00:26:35,700 –> 00:26:39,460
Jean Harlow or, you know, any of or Bettie Page. Right?

412
00:26:39,460 –> 00:26:43,304
Any of the the the sex symbol women that could have been interchanged

413
00:26:43,304 –> 00:26:47,145
with the Kardashians in their own era. I think the same thing happens

414
00:26:47,145 –> 00:26:50,690
with high art. Opera, fine art, I think

415
00:26:50,690 –> 00:26:54,530
jazz is is is high art, but, okay, let’s just use opera, any kind of

416
00:26:54,530 –> 00:26:58,310
the fine arts. And I think it’s that lack of being able

417
00:26:58,485 –> 00:27:01,524
to step over and see a new way to do a different date. Book think

418
00:27:01,524 –> 00:27:05,044
that’s the thing that people do. That’s interesting. It’s a very

419
00:27:05,044 –> 00:27:08,399
interesting way of that’s a interesting frame. I like

420
00:27:08,399 –> 00:27:12,159
it. Well, you guys Opera Opera didn’t

421
00:27:12,159 –> 00:27:15,440
used to be the high art. You know, it used to be the the art

422
00:27:15,440 –> 00:27:19,165
of the people, the the the pop. Right.

423
00:27:19,165 –> 00:27:21,585
But that was back when people had to leave their houses

424
00:27:23,485 –> 00:27:26,880
and dress up and go do stuff. And now people don’t have to leave their

425
00:27:26,880 –> 00:27:30,480
houses. Or or to leave your house, it must be something

426
00:27:30,480 –> 00:27:34,184
worthwhile. Gotcha. I’m a big fan of minor league baseball. My

427
00:27:34,184 –> 00:27:36,985
daughter and I try to go to at least a couple minor league baseballs every

428
00:27:37,144 –> 00:27:40,745
baseball games every summer. Baseball is 1 of those

429
00:27:40,745 –> 00:27:44,420
sports that’s it’s shocking in the era that we live in that baseball still

430
00:27:44,420 –> 00:27:48,040
survives in any form. It’s shocking. I love baseball.

431
00:27:48,340 –> 00:27:51,315
I go every chance I get. That goes along with the opera, though. It’s the

432
00:27:51,315 –> 00:27:54,995
same idea. It’s that we get dressed up. We’re

433
00:27:54,995 –> 00:27:58,355
gonna go do this thing. Yeah. We’re gonna have a good Tom. And you look

434
00:27:58,355 –> 00:28:02,020
at pictures of people who attended baseball games back in the thirties

435
00:28:02,320 –> 00:28:05,940
and twenties, thirties, and forties when baseball was huge, like my grandma.

436
00:28:06,080 –> 00:28:09,725
Like, black, white, didn’t matter. You dressed up in your suit.

437
00:28:09,865 –> 00:28:13,385
You put your tie your your your fedora on. She dressed up in a nice

438
00:28:13,385 –> 00:28:16,350
dress. She was carrying a parasol, and you’re gonna go to the area. You’re gonna

439
00:28:16,350 –> 00:28:20,130
watch a doubleheader that’s gonna start at, like, 10 o’clock. Doubleheader’s

440
00:28:20,190 –> 00:28:22,750
gonna go. Gonna be about 10 to 3. It’s gonna be a little bit of

441
00:28:22,750 –> 00:28:26,305
intermission. Then you’re gonna go from 4 to 8, and that’s a whole day.

442
00:28:26,365 –> 00:28:29,965
Yeah. And you’re gonna have popcorn. You’re gonna have hot

443
00:28:29,965 –> 00:28:33,790
dogs, peanuts. You might have some beer. Cracker jugs. Yep.

444
00:28:34,670 –> 00:28:38,050
It’s gonna be fun. The baseball players

445
00:28:39,870 –> 00:28:42,850
are in a space where, just like in opera

446
00:28:43,855 –> 00:28:47,375
or or even in, or even in, well yeah. Or an

447
00:28:47,375 –> 00:28:51,210
orchestra where individually, they all have to be book, but

448
00:28:51,210 –> 00:28:54,890
if 1 person has an individually bad day, the rest of everybody

449
00:28:54,890 –> 00:28:58,570
doesn’t have to go along. And so baseball is a game of

450
00:28:58,570 –> 00:29:02,185
individuals played as a Tom, whereas and I’ve

451
00:29:02,185 –> 00:29:05,065
talked about this a little bit on the podcast before, although not extensively. I like

452
00:29:05,065 –> 00:29:08,525
to explore this thesis a little bit, maybe not in this episode, but later on,

453
00:29:08,905 –> 00:29:12,470
where we had a switch in the

454
00:29:12,470 –> 00:29:15,830
sixties that happened. We switched from a baseball culture to a football culture and no

455
00:29:15,830 –> 00:29:19,395
1 talks about it. And football is game. You can tell by your tongue

456
00:29:19,395 –> 00:29:23,155
sticking out. Football is a game. It’s a team game. Like, think about every job

457
00:29:23,155 –> 00:29:25,735
interview you’ve ever been on. Are you a team player?

458
00:29:26,559 –> 00:29:30,260
Like like, team building. Football is a game where

459
00:29:30,640 –> 00:29:33,059
if the quarterback isn’t leading the team effectively,

460
00:29:34,105 –> 00:29:37,805
then the team falls apart. I’m a Broncos fan. Russell Wilson,

461
00:29:37,865 –> 00:29:41,165
less said about that, the better. And so,

462
00:29:41,480 –> 00:29:45,160
like like, that team aspect really began to filter into our culture in the

463
00:29:45,160 –> 00:29:48,920
19 sixties, and the baseball aspect began to, like, go away and go away

464
00:29:48,920 –> 00:29:52,655
and go away. Mhmm. And now the only reason baseball kinda

465
00:29:52,655 –> 00:29:56,195
hangs on is because of nostalgia

466
00:29:56,415 –> 00:30:00,010
primarily. Yeah. But also, it

467
00:30:00,010 –> 00:30:03,530
owns summer because there’s nothing else. Although football’s creeping in and creeping in and creeping

468
00:30:03,530 –> 00:30:07,309
in, and then you got hockey and baseball fourth basketball creeping down.

469
00:30:07,525 –> 00:30:11,145
Everybody’s the the may the other 3 major sports are trying to push baseball

470
00:30:11,205 –> 00:30:14,025
out because baseball players don’t care about Instagram.

471
00:30:14,920 –> 00:30:18,360
They real they’re not, you know, they’re not I mean, they can’t be

472
00:30:18,360 –> 00:30:21,960
okay. They’re there to hit the ball. Simple

473
00:30:21,960 –> 00:30:25,195
game. You hit the ball, you catch the ball, and you throw the ball.

474
00:30:25,735 –> 00:30:28,315
Simple game. And you run. You won a lot,

475
00:30:29,575 –> 00:30:33,320
and you better run really fast. And so, like, it’s not a game for

476
00:30:33,320 –> 00:30:37,080
social media. It’s not a game for clicks. It’s not a game, but it

477
00:30:37,080 –> 00:30:40,645
is game that can be gatekept inside of summer. If baseball ever

478
00:30:40,645 –> 00:30:44,085
loses summer, baseball’s done. It’s done. It’ll

479
00:30:44,085 –> 00:30:47,925
die. Oh, sad. That would be

480
00:30:47,925 –> 00:30:51,740
sad. You write books. Tell us about

481
00:30:51,740 –> 00:30:55,340
the new book you’re writing fourth you’ve got you you got I am writing yeah.

482
00:30:55,340 –> 00:30:58,534
The trilogy. We finally we have a name for the trilogy. Good. So what’s the

483
00:30:58,534 –> 00:31:02,215
name for the trilogy? It’s called The Bell and the Bow. Bell and the Bow.

484
00:31:02,215 –> 00:31:05,755
Okay. Yeah. Which is fun because it, you know, references the 2

485
00:31:05,815 –> 00:31:09,510
protagonists. But depending on how you

486
00:31:09,510 –> 00:31:12,950
spell the words, they could they could

487
00:31:12,950 –> 00:31:16,765
flip. Right? So the bell is the male, the book is the female. But

488
00:31:16,765 –> 00:31:20,259
then if you, you know, bell can also be bell fourth

489
00:31:20,285 –> 00:31:23,665
female and book. Anyway, I like it. I have fun.

490
00:31:25,889 –> 00:31:29,490
It’s a it’s it’s just a it’s a fantasy trilogy. It’s a lot it started

491
00:31:29,490 –> 00:31:33,250
as a love story. We there’s a lot of adventure and monster killing

492
00:31:33,250 –> 00:31:36,825
in it. We think a lot and I say we,

493
00:31:37,445 –> 00:31:40,025
because I’m writing it with a coauthor, 1 of my best friends.

494
00:31:41,720 –> 00:31:45,340
And we think a lot about tropes and cliches,

495
00:31:45,559 –> 00:31:49,320
which, you know, now going back and reading Canada, Medecristo, you know,

496
00:31:49,320 –> 00:31:53,065
you see and you’re like, well, that’s a cliche now. Mhmm. But,

497
00:31:53,065 –> 00:31:56,825
you know, at the time was probably just like, everybody’s like, what? When you

498
00:31:56,825 –> 00:32:00,125
read it and the the narrator, like,

499
00:32:01,450 –> 00:32:05,050
spoilers, 1 of the characters dies. So, you know, when the first, you

500
00:32:05,050 –> 00:32:08,890
know, person that the count wants vengeance on dies, the

501
00:32:08,890 –> 00:32:12,705
narrator does not say does not

502
00:32:12,705 –> 00:32:16,225
reveal that the count is Edmond Dantes. And I was

503
00:32:16,225 –> 00:32:19,920
like, did people not know? Like,

504
00:32:19,920 –> 00:32:23,680
was this something like like, there was this, like, their 6th sense, like,

505
00:32:23,680 –> 00:32:27,505
this biggest twist that they that nobody saw coming

506
00:32:27,505 –> 00:32:31,205
because, like, we read it now, and I’m like, well, that’s the same guy.

507
00:32:31,345 –> 00:32:35,169
Right. Okay. So that’s Like, it’s clearly the same guy. Oh,

508
00:32:35,169 –> 00:32:38,309
yeah. Demas is, like, seeding it methodically,

509
00:32:38,929 –> 00:32:42,370
and he gives you he gives the reader little hints. And I think

510
00:32:42,370 –> 00:32:45,715
I saw that. I was like, oh, this is how it reminded me of our

511
00:32:45,715 –> 00:32:49,475
process where, like, there will be this big twist that happens in, like, book

512
00:32:49,475 –> 00:32:52,855
3, and we go back and we seed it. In book 1,

513
00:32:53,030 –> 00:32:56,470
We we ramp it up a little bit in book 2, and then boom, it

514
00:32:56,470 –> 00:33:00,010
hits you in book 3 and the smart well, smart readers.

515
00:33:00,375 –> 00:33:03,015
Almost are you allowed to say that? I don’t know. Oh, yeah. Just whatever you

516
00:33:03,015 –> 00:33:06,855
want. Think about myself. Be like, well, if I was reading this book, I’d be

517
00:33:06,855 –> 00:33:10,470
like, oh. Right. That happened in book 1 and book

518
00:33:10,470 –> 00:33:13,430
2. Oh, they’ve been building to this the whole time. And then I also think

519
00:33:13,430 –> 00:33:17,270
about rereadability because I love rereading my favorite books. And so, you

520
00:33:17,270 –> 00:33:20,905
know, readers that, you know, hopefully fall in love with our books will go back

521
00:33:20,905 –> 00:33:24,665
and they’ll read book 1 and be like, they were planning

522
00:33:24,665 –> 00:33:28,490
this the whole time. Those are just those are my I do

523
00:33:28,490 –> 00:33:32,090
my best to put a lot of my favorite things that, like, it,

524
00:33:32,889 –> 00:33:36,605
and by my favorite things, I mean, like, quality. Like, the things that I see

525
00:33:36,605 –> 00:33:40,365
in books that I’m like, that worked. That

526
00:33:40,365 –> 00:33:44,044
got me so good. We do our best to make sure that it’s

527
00:33:44,044 –> 00:33:47,830
meticulously woven that way. And that’s

528
00:33:47,830 –> 00:33:51,610
also why the writing today really irritates

529
00:33:51,669 –> 00:33:55,495
me because they’re like, how much are those writers getting

530
00:33:55,495 –> 00:33:58,715
pay well, hold on. That’s actually a different question because of the

531
00:33:59,655 –> 00:34:03,110
the writers strike. But still, like, Disney,

532
00:34:03,730 –> 00:34:07,570
you can afford more. Pay writers to

533
00:34:07,570 –> 00:34:11,385
do better. We’re gonna we’re gonna save that to the next section. We’re gonna

534
00:34:11,385 –> 00:34:14,425
save that. I I took a note. We’re gonna save that. I said, no. No.

535
00:34:14,425 –> 00:34:17,065
No. No. It’s good. No. Because I wanna so mad. I’d be like, how much

536
00:34:17,065 –> 00:34:20,619
did they spend writing this bullshit? $22, 000, 000.

537
00:34:21,559 –> 00:34:25,319
$22, 000, 000 on an episode. 1

538
00:34:25,319 –> 00:34:28,940
episode. 1 episode. This is Meanwhile, quality writers

539
00:34:30,105 –> 00:34:33,945
are, you know What makes us think putting their novels out on what

540
00:34:33,945 –> 00:34:37,679
Amazon can’t get published. And if they do get a publishing

541
00:34:37,679 –> 00:34:41,280
contract, their, their, their, their advances are terrible.

542
00:34:41,280 –> 00:34:44,790
Now it’s just like, oh, I’m gonna take it out on Netflix. Writers

543
00:34:44,935 –> 00:34:48,459
are. That’s Alright. Let’s support

544
00:34:48,459 –> 00:34:51,355
writers. Go buy books. Sorry. I’m sorry.

545
00:34:54,440 –> 00:34:58,200
I wanna talk about I wanna talk about that because I know you saw the,

546
00:34:58,839 –> 00:35:01,900
I know you saw the little reveal from the Department of Justice

547
00:35:02,359 –> 00:35:05,865
documents about Penguin Random House where they proposed the Penguin Random House

548
00:35:05,865 –> 00:35:09,305
merger, and there was the document dump. Oh, gosh. This is probably about 2 months

549
00:35:09,305 –> 00:35:12,859
ago. And it went through the book world like wildfire where it

550
00:35:12,859 –> 00:35:15,440
revealed just how many books

551
00:35:16,220 –> 00:35:19,440
don’t get published and

552
00:35:19,819 –> 00:35:23,565
how few books actually make the

553
00:35:23,565 –> 00:35:27,244
New York Tom bestseller list and what the New York Times bestseller list numbers

554
00:35:27,244 –> 00:35:30,970
are. And I’m gonna leave this I’m gonna put this here

555
00:35:31,050 –> 00:35:33,790
before we go into our next section here, which we will in a moment.

556
00:35:35,130 –> 00:35:38,890
But most books sell fewer than a 100

557
00:35:38,890 –> 00:35:42,424
copies. And by the way, this doesn’t matter if it’s a celebrity

558
00:35:42,424 –> 00:35:45,785
author. Like, Billie Eilish apparently released a book that sold less than 500

559
00:35:45,785 –> 00:35:49,360
copies. The same I mean, who’s

560
00:35:49,360 –> 00:35:52,350
following Billie Eilish and thinks, I want her book.

561
00:35:54,400 –> 00:35:58,115
But but but but but here’s the here’s the thing. We already talked about

562
00:35:58,115 –> 00:36:00,835
Taylor Swift. Let me bring her back up for just a moment. Oh, no. Please

563
00:36:00,835 –> 00:36:04,680
don’t. Taylor Swift wouldn’t be able to sell more than 10, 000 books. That’s

564
00:36:04,920 –> 00:36:08,440
But 10, 000 books gets you gratifying. But it gets you onto the New York

565
00:36:08,440 –> 00:36:12,120
Times bestseller list. And by the way, most of these book

566
00:36:12,120 –> 00:36:15,704
publishing companies, and we will get go back to this in a moment, survive off

567
00:36:15,704 –> 00:36:19,085
of the back catalog. Do you know the number 1 book

568
00:36:19,384 –> 00:36:23,144
that’s published by most major book? Number 1 book in America that sells the most

569
00:36:23,144 –> 00:36:26,970
number of books that most most booksellers survive on. Number

570
00:36:26,970 –> 00:36:30,430
1 back catalog book in history. I don’t. The Bible.

571
00:36:31,050 –> 00:36:34,474
That was gonna be my guess, but it felt so, like, a cliche to to

572
00:36:34,474 –> 00:36:36,974
say it. We’re like, was it the Bible?

573
00:36:38,315 –> 00:36:41,775
Back catalog authors and back catalog

574
00:36:41,835 –> 00:36:45,650
books that came about before the Internet. So that’s why Stephen King,

575
00:36:45,650 –> 00:36:49,109
when he went and testified, against the merger,

576
00:36:49,705 –> 00:36:53,465
basically said in his testimony that this merger, if it

577
00:36:53,465 –> 00:36:57,305
is allowed to go through, will actually impact not him. He’ll be

578
00:36:57,305 –> 00:37:01,150
fine. He’ll always get a book published, but it will impact people

579
00:37:01,290 –> 00:37:05,130
negatively who are seeking to break into the market. What

580
00:37:05,130 –> 00:37:08,430
a guy. But people who are seeking to break into the market

581
00:37:08,775 –> 00:37:12,535
currently can’t get in anyway. Mm-mm. And that’s

582
00:37:12,535 –> 00:37:15,974
why self publishing is there, and we’ll get into all of that in a bit.

583
00:37:15,974 –> 00:37:19,450
Mhmm. Couple other thoughts that I have before we go. So

584
00:37:20,230 –> 00:37:23,990
this book was published in 18 fourth and was serialized through 8 through to

585
00:37:23,990 –> 00:37:27,615
18 fourth, which means in 2024, we are coming up

586
00:37:27,615 –> 00:37:31,075
on the 180th. Actually, this year is the 180th

587
00:37:31,295 –> 00:37:34,869
anniversary of The Count of Monte Cristo being serialized.

588
00:37:35,730 –> 00:37:39,490
That is and when you get 2 100 2 100 films made

589
00:37:39,490 –> 00:37:42,805
off of 1 book, that tells you how deep the tropes and the cliches are

590
00:37:42,885 –> 00:37:46,725
just they’re part of the they’re part of the background. 200?

591
00:37:46,725 –> 00:37:49,545
They’ve made 200 films? Over 200 films.

592
00:37:52,780 –> 00:37:55,600
So I knew We’re using the site.

593
00:37:57,865 –> 00:38:00,905
Sorry. Since the early 20th century let me go back real quick. Since the early

594
00:38:00,905 –> 00:38:04,750
20th century, his novels, all of Dumas’ novels, not just Count of Monte Cristo.

595
00:38:04,990 –> 00:38:08,430
All of Dumonti’s novels have been adapted into nearly 200

596
00:38:08,430 –> 00:38:11,710
films. Okay. Okay. Okay. Which means the vast majority of I’m just sure sure of

597
00:38:11,710 –> 00:38:14,675
the vast majority of them. Well, Dumonti’s has been made at least

598
00:38:14,974 –> 00:38:18,615
fourth At least fourth 5 times. Cannamani Cristo,

599
00:38:19,075 –> 00:38:22,915
12, 13, 14. I mean, there’s and by the way, that’s play play versions

600
00:38:22,915 –> 00:38:25,920
of Cannamani Cristo fourth, you know, I would throw in there too.

601
00:38:26,620 –> 00:38:29,340
And then the other thing that I would point out is this, and we’re gonna

602
00:38:29,340 –> 00:38:32,765
talk about revenge here in a second. There’s a great

603
00:38:32,765 –> 00:38:36,465
line that, is said in the way of the gun

604
00:38:36,525 –> 00:38:39,800
movie that came out way back at the end of 19 nineties with Ryan Phillippe

605
00:38:39,960 –> 00:38:43,800
and Benicio del Toro was 2 bag men. And

606
00:38:43,800 –> 00:38:46,780
they were talking to an old bag men old bag man,

607
00:38:47,975 –> 00:38:51,735
played by James, Sonny from, The Godfather. I think it

608
00:38:51,735 –> 00:38:55,515
was the actor’s name right now. And, he says to them,

609
00:38:55,800 –> 00:38:59,160
and I quote it, I love this quote, justice is just

610
00:38:59,160 –> 00:39:00,619
revenge without the satisfaction.

611
00:39:03,480 –> 00:39:07,275
Interesting. Of course, the other great line inside of the way

612
00:39:07,275 –> 00:39:11,035
of the gun is never trust a bag man, and

613
00:39:11,035 –> 00:39:13,855
there’s always free cheese in a mousetrap, which is true.

614
00:39:14,940 –> 00:39:17,440
But watch out for AI, by the way. That’s a mousetrap.

615
00:39:18,540 –> 00:39:22,300
Alright. Yeah. But there’s always free cheese in there, though. Like,

616
00:39:22,300 –> 00:39:25,905
go ahead and get in. Go ahead. Go ahead. Go

617
00:39:25,905 –> 00:39:29,345
ahead. Alright. Back to the book. Oh,

618
00:39:29,345 –> 00:39:32,390
goodness. Oh, the count of Montecristo.

619
00:39:33,250 –> 00:39:36,870
Let’s talk a little bit about revenge. I’m going to go into,

620
00:39:38,370 –> 00:39:41,945
the chapter here known as the plot. And

621
00:39:41,945 –> 00:39:43,885
this is where after,

622
00:39:46,185 –> 00:39:49,650
danglers comes on to, comes on to land

623
00:39:49,790 –> 00:39:53,329
and Danglars. Danglars. Sorry. I’m

624
00:39:53,550 –> 00:39:56,130
sorry to hear it with the appropriate French, Elon.

625
00:39:57,725 –> 00:40:00,205
I’m not I’m I’m not I’m not giving you enough French, Elon. I’m trying to

626
00:40:00,205 –> 00:40:04,045
save that up for when we actually read read read passages of the book. But

627
00:40:04,045 –> 00:40:06,285
we’re gonna go on this chapter of the plot. We’ll read a few pages from

628
00:40:06,285 –> 00:40:10,000
this, and then we’re gonna talk about revenge, and writers

629
00:40:10,000 –> 00:40:13,839
today in AI. So AI revenge. This is gonna be good. Kristen’s gonna

630
00:40:13,839 –> 00:40:16,819
Kristen’s gonna do this. It’s so real. We’re listening to this.

631
00:40:17,475 –> 00:40:21,155
Danglars’ eyes followed Edmond and Mercedes until the 2

632
00:40:21,155 –> 00:40:24,830
lovers had vanished around 1 corner of the Fourth Saint Nicolas. Then turning at

633
00:40:24,830 –> 00:40:28,530
last, he noticed Fernande, who had slipped back to his chair pale and trembling,

634
00:40:28,750 –> 00:40:32,205
while Cadarout was mumbling the words of a drinking song. So

635
00:40:32,205 –> 00:40:35,005
Danglars was on the ship just to give you a little background. Danglars was on

636
00:40:35,005 –> 00:40:38,385
the ship with Edmond Dantes, Edmond and Mercedes.

637
00:40:38,525 –> 00:40:42,330
Mercedes is his is betrothed. Okay. This is gonna come back

638
00:40:42,330 –> 00:40:45,850
later. It’s gonna be interesting plot point. But Don Gillars

639
00:40:45,850 –> 00:40:49,565
is well, he’s not the captain, and he

640
00:40:49,565 –> 00:40:52,945
wants to be the captain. And then you’ve got bookkeeper,

641
00:40:53,405 –> 00:40:57,245
I believe. Yeah. He’s he’s the ship’s, you basically make sure

642
00:40:57,245 –> 00:41:00,530
that and it was interesting because I read another book

643
00:41:00,990 –> 00:41:04,670
about shipping and shipbuilding, and there

644
00:41:04,670 –> 00:41:07,645
were positions on ships back in the day, which nobody knows us now, which are

645
00:41:07,645 –> 00:41:11,405
basically accountants for, like, a floating floating vessel. And they made sure that

646
00:41:11,405 –> 00:41:15,140
the amount of goods that left the ship and

647
00:41:15,140 –> 00:41:18,900
the amount of goods that came back onto the ship balanced at the

648
00:41:18,900 –> 00:41:22,695
end. Right? They also, did deals when they would go into fourth

649
00:41:22,695 –> 00:41:26,155
ports. They had no multiple languages. It was all it was a very complicated

650
00:41:26,295 –> 00:41:30,135
role that they, that they had, in addition to having to work on the

651
00:41:30,135 –> 00:41:33,710
ship just like everybody else, all hands on deck means all hands.

652
00:41:34,890 –> 00:41:38,430
So that was Don Gillard. And then, you’ve got

653
00:41:38,490 –> 00:41:42,234
Fernand. Fernand was the the

654
00:41:42,234 –> 00:41:45,914
person who, when Edmond was, shall we say,

655
00:41:45,914 –> 00:41:48,734
out to sea, was sniffing around Mercedes

656
00:41:51,390 –> 00:41:55,090
trying to get her to fall in love with him. And finally, Kaderu.

657
00:41:55,310 –> 00:41:59,010
Kaderu was a or had the character of Kaderu,

658
00:41:59,645 –> 00:42:02,845
is framed by Dumont as a Alexander Dumont as a,

659
00:42:03,885 –> 00:42:07,485
a neighbor, not Frank. He is a neighbor who loans money

660
00:42:07,485 –> 00:42:11,300
to, Edmund’s father, and then demands repayment

661
00:42:11,359 –> 00:42:15,200
of that money, gets the money repaid, and then Edmund comes back with

662
00:42:15,200 –> 00:42:19,025
more money and just gives it to Catarou, thus creating a, a dynamic

663
00:42:19,085 –> 00:42:22,525
of, of a dynamic of debt, which

664
00:42:22,525 –> 00:42:26,230
Khaterou struggles with, but not as not as

665
00:42:26,230 –> 00:42:29,530
much as some, which we’ll see here in just a moment. So that’s the background

666
00:42:29,990 –> 00:42:31,690
on chapter 4 of the plot.

667
00:42:33,885 –> 00:42:37,565
So my good sir, Douglass told Fourth, not everyone I think is happy

668
00:42:37,565 –> 00:42:41,340
about this marriage. I am in despair, said Fernand. You’re in love

669
00:42:41,340 –> 00:42:45,180
with, Mercedes. I adore her. For a long time,

670
00:42:45,180 –> 00:42:48,300
ever since I’ve known her, I’ve always loved her. And all you could do is

671
00:42:48,300 –> 00:42:50,665
sit there and tear your hair out instead of finding some way out of the

672
00:42:50,745 –> 00:42:54,105
dilemma. My god. I didn’t know that this was how the people of your country

673
00:42:54,105 –> 00:42:57,545
behaved. What do you expect me to do, Fourth? How do I

674
00:42:57,545 –> 00:43:00,440
know? Is it in my business? As I see it, I’m not the 1 who’s

675
00:43:00,440 –> 00:43:04,119
in love with Mademoiselle Mercedes. You are. Seek and ye shall

676
00:43:04,119 –> 00:43:07,260
find, the gospel says. I have found already.

677
00:43:07,560 –> 00:43:10,815
What? I wanted to put my knife into the creature, but the girl said that

678
00:43:10,815 –> 00:43:13,235
her fiance was harmed. She would kill herself.

679
00:43:14,735 –> 00:43:17,910
People say such things when they don’t do them. You don’t know Mercedes,

680
00:43:18,849 –> 00:43:22,369
If she threatens to do something, she will. Idiot. Thank books

681
00:43:22,369 –> 00:43:26,130
mother. What does it matter whether she kills herself or not, provided Dantes does not

682
00:43:26,130 –> 00:43:29,795
become captain? And before Mercedes dies, Fernand went

683
00:43:29,795 –> 00:43:33,475
on in firmly resolute Tom, I should die myself. There

684
00:43:33,475 –> 00:43:37,250
is love for you, Kyrie said in a voice increasingly slurred by drink.

685
00:43:37,390 –> 00:43:41,150
There’s love, or I don’t know it. Come now, said Dank Lars.

686
00:43:41,150 –> 00:43:44,825
You seem an agreeable enough lad and to me. And by Jove, I’d like to

687
00:43:44,825 –> 00:43:48,185
ease your sorrow, but, yeah, let’s say Catteroo. Come on

688
00:43:48,185 –> 00:43:51,705
now. My good friend, Danglars remarked, you are 3 quarters

689
00:43:51,705 –> 00:43:55,500
drunk. Go the whole way and finish the bottle. Drink, but don’t interfere with our

690
00:43:55,500 –> 00:43:58,080
business because you need a clear head for what we’re doing.

691
00:43:58,859 –> 00:44:02,375
Me? Trump? Katerou. You said Katerou.

692
00:44:02,515 –> 00:44:05,475
Never. I could take another fourth of your bottles, which are no bigger than bottles

693
00:44:05,475 –> 00:44:08,855
of vous de Calonne. Bring us some more wine.

694
00:44:09,460 –> 00:44:13,240
And to make the point, Catherou banged his glass on the table.

695
00:44:14,260 –> 00:44:18,020
You were saying, Fernand asked, impatient to hear what else Danglars had to

696
00:44:18,020 –> 00:44:21,365
tell him. What What was I saying? I don’t remember. I

697
00:44:21,605 –> 00:44:24,745
this drunkard, if I could put it out of my mind.

698
00:44:25,205 –> 00:44:27,780
Drunkard if you like. Accursed on those who fourth. Why?

699
00:44:37,225 –> 00:44:40,925
The flood proved it beyond a doubt. All wicked men do water drink.

700
00:44:41,385 –> 00:44:45,225
You were saying, Fernand continued, that you’d like to ease my sorrow, but

701
00:44:45,225 –> 00:44:48,640
you added, ah, yes. But I added that to give you

702
00:44:48,640 –> 00:44:52,400
satisfaction. It is enough for Dantes not to marry the 1 you love. In

703
00:44:52,400 –> 00:44:55,505
this marriage, it seems to me, you could very well not take lazy if Dantes

704
00:44:55,505 –> 00:44:59,025
does not die. Only death will separate them, said

705
00:44:59,025 –> 00:45:02,700
Fernand. You have the brains of an oyster, my friend, said

706
00:45:02,700 –> 00:45:06,460
Kadaru. And Danglars here, who is a sharp 1, crafty as

707
00:45:06,460 –> 00:45:10,165
a Greek, will prove you wrong. You’re a Danglars. I’ve stuck up for

708
00:45:10,165 –> 00:45:13,045
you. Tell him that Dante doesn’t have to die. In any case, he would be

709
00:45:13,045 –> 00:45:16,325
a pity if he died. He’s a good lad, Dante. I like you. No health,

710
00:45:16,325 –> 00:45:20,140
Dante. Anurad rose impatiently to his feet.

711
00:45:20,140 –> 00:45:23,580
Let him babble, Denglauer said, putting a hand on the young man’s arm. And for

712
00:45:23,580 –> 00:45:27,015
that matter, drunk as he is, he is not so far wrong. Absence

713
00:45:27,015 –> 00:45:30,615
separates as effectively as death. Just so just suppose that there

714
00:45:30,615 –> 00:45:34,235
were walls of a prison between Edmund and Mercedes.

715
00:45:34,760 –> 00:45:37,740
That would separate them no more or no less than a tombstone.

716
00:45:39,400 –> 00:45:42,760
Yes. But people get out of prison, said Katherou, who was

717
00:45:42,760 –> 00:45:46,474
gripping who was gripping onto the conversation with what remained of his wits.

718
00:45:46,855 –> 00:45:50,615
And when you get out of prison and you are called, you take

719
00:45:50,615 –> 00:45:54,220
revenge. What does that matter? That’s it for now.

720
00:45:54,519 –> 00:45:58,200
In any event, Khadaruk continued, why should they put out his interest? He

721
00:45:58,200 –> 00:46:01,579
hasn’t stolen anything, killed anyone, committed any murder. Shut up,

722
00:46:03,145 –> 00:46:06,905
I all want to shut up, I want to know why they should put Dante

723
00:46:06,905 –> 00:46:10,125
in prison. I want to. What the hell?

724
00:46:11,140 –> 00:46:13,160
We poured back another glass of wine.

725
00:46:14,580 –> 00:46:18,260
Pingelars assessed the extent of the tailor’s drunkenness from his dull eyes and

726
00:46:18,260 –> 00:46:22,015
turned towards Pheranon. You understand that there is no need to kill him, he

727
00:46:22,015 –> 00:46:25,775
said. No. Surely not. As if you said a moment ago there was some means

728
00:46:25,775 –> 00:46:28,755
of having Dante’s arrested, but do you have such means?

729
00:46:29,670 –> 00:46:33,510
If we look, Vanglars answered, we can’t find 1. But damn it.

730
00:46:33,510 –> 00:46:36,550
Why should this concern me? What business is it to find? I don’t know why

731
00:46:36,550 –> 00:46:40,385
it should concern you, Fernand Fernand said, grasping his arm. What I do know

732
00:46:40,385 –> 00:46:44,065
is that you have some private animosity against Dante. A man who feels hated cannot

733
00:46:44,065 –> 00:46:47,800
be mistaken about that feeling in others. I know some

734
00:46:47,800 –> 00:46:51,480
reason to hate Dante’s. Don, I swear. I saw that you were unhappy and took

735
00:46:51,480 –> 00:46:55,080
an interest in your unhappiness. That’s all. But if you’re going to imagine that

736
00:46:55,080 –> 00:46:58,695
I’m acting on my own behalf, then farewell, my good friend. You could manage for

737
00:46:58,695 –> 00:47:02,215
yourself, Eurydek Lars himself made as if to get

738
00:47:02,215 –> 00:47:05,950
up. No. Stay, said Fernand. When it comes down to

739
00:47:05,950 –> 00:47:08,829
it, it’s of no matter to me whether you have some book difficulty bad days

740
00:47:08,829 –> 00:47:12,375
or not. I do, and I freely admit it. Find the means, and I shall

741
00:47:12,375 –> 00:47:16,135
carry it out as long as there is no murder involved. Fourth Mercedes said

742
00:47:16,135 –> 00:47:18,395
that she would kill herself if anyone killed Dentes.

743
00:47:19,630 –> 00:47:23,390
Gatturu, who let his head fall off the table, fall on

744
00:47:23,390 –> 00:47:26,830
the table, lifted it and turned his dull, drinksoden eyes on

745
00:47:26,830 –> 00:47:30,665
Fernand and Bangalore’s. Killing Dentists, he said. Who’s talking

746
00:47:30,665 –> 00:47:34,265
about killing Dentists? I don’t want him killed. He’s my friend. This morning, he offered

747
00:47:34,265 –> 00:47:37,145
to share his money with me, and I shared mine with him. I don’t want

748
00:47:37,145 –> 00:47:40,820
anyone to kill Dentists. Who said anything about killing an idiot? I’m telling

749
00:47:41,520 –> 00:47:45,140
Manglers went on. It’s only more than a joke. Drink to his health

750
00:47:45,680 –> 00:47:49,195
and leave us be, he added, filling

751
00:47:49,735 –> 00:47:51,915
Patarese glass.

752
00:47:53,575 –> 00:47:56,155
Now they’re gonna go on and on like this for a little while,

753
00:47:57,420 –> 00:48:01,200
And then, Danglars why the abridged version exists. That’s right.

754
00:48:01,260 –> 00:48:02,880
Danglars is going to

755
00:48:05,674 –> 00:48:09,194
write a note, and I’m gonna read the note because the note is important. This

756
00:48:09,194 –> 00:48:12,555
is this is an important event for leaders to pay attention to here. It basically

757
00:48:12,555 –> 00:48:16,380
puts the revenge part of this plot in motion. So I’m gonna skip ahead a

758
00:48:16,380 –> 00:48:20,220
little bit. To illustrate his meaning,

759
00:48:20,220 –> 00:48:23,715
Dan Galaros wrote the following lines with his left hand, the rights

760
00:48:23,875 –> 00:48:27,315
the writing sloping backwards so that it bore no resemblance to his usual

761
00:48:27,315 –> 00:48:31,155
handwriting, then passed it to Ferdinand, who read in read it in

762
00:48:31,155 –> 00:48:34,819
a hushed voice. Quote, the crown prosecutor

763
00:48:34,819 –> 00:48:38,460
writers advised by a friend of the monarchy and the faith that 1 Enman Dantes,

764
00:48:38,520 –> 00:48:42,095
first mate of the Pharaon, arriving this morning from Smyrna after putting

765
00:48:42,095 –> 00:48:45,855
in Naples and Porto Ferrajo was entrusted by Murat

766
00:48:45,855 –> 00:48:49,310
with a letter for the usurper and by the usurper with a letter from the

767
00:48:49,310 –> 00:48:53,150
Bonapartist Committee in Paris or there are 2 of the Bonapartist Committee in

768
00:48:53,150 –> 00:48:56,345
Paris. Proof of his guilt will be found when he is arrested since the letter

769
00:48:56,345 –> 00:48:59,785
will be discovered either on his person or at the house of his father or

770
00:48:59,785 –> 00:49:03,385
in his cabin on board the Pharaon, close

771
00:49:03,385 –> 00:49:07,140
quote. So there we have it, Enghleras continued. In this way,

772
00:49:07,140 –> 00:49:10,500
your revenge will be consistent with common sense because it could in no way be

773
00:49:10,500 –> 00:49:13,535
traced back to you, and the matter would proceed to his own accord. You would

774
00:49:13,535 –> 00:49:16,255
merely have to fold the letter as I am doing now and write on it

775
00:49:16,255 –> 00:49:19,855
to the crown prosecutor. That would settle it. And

776
00:49:19,855 –> 00:49:22,980
Danglars wrote the address. A simple stroke

777
00:49:24,000 –> 00:49:27,760
of the pen. I like

778
00:49:27,760 –> 00:49:31,595
that chapter. It’s book setup. Got

779
00:49:31,595 –> 00:49:35,055
the dynamic between the 3 guys. I imagine them sitting at a table outside,

780
00:49:35,595 –> 00:49:39,240
in Paris in, like, 1844. Fourth know, it’s a

781
00:49:39,240 –> 00:49:43,080
wooden table. It’s kinda rotted. You got Cataneru who is drunk

782
00:49:43,080 –> 00:49:46,825
off his behind. It’s like the 3 stooges. And men

783
00:49:46,825 –> 00:49:49,625
are big fans of the 3 stooges. It’s like the 3 stooges. You got Nangalars

784
00:49:49,625 –> 00:49:53,224
who absolutely knows what’s happening. He’s a total firm. He’s he’s he’s

785
00:49:53,224 –> 00:49:56,920
committed to this idea that he’s gonna get

786
00:49:56,920 –> 00:50:00,760
Nantes. And he’s already figured out what he wants to do in order to

787
00:50:00,760 –> 00:50:04,224
do it, but he doesn’t wanna have his hand on the knife. Then you’ve got

788
00:50:04,224 –> 00:50:06,964
Fernand, who is driven by passion

789
00:50:07,585 –> 00:50:11,125
and, and, revenge, but

790
00:50:11,185 –> 00:50:14,650
mostly is driven by this this idea of lust for

791
00:50:14,650 –> 00:50:18,490
Mercedes. He he’s not he doesn’t, he doesn’t really love her other

792
00:50:18,490 –> 00:50:22,275
than as an object inside of his own head. And, and then you’ve got Katarou

793
00:50:22,335 –> 00:50:26,115
who well, in Vinovaritas,

794
00:50:26,735 –> 00:50:30,550
right, to paraphrase from tombstone. You

795
00:50:30,550 –> 00:50:33,050
know, there’s truth in drink.

796
00:50:33,910 –> 00:50:37,670
Catarou is the only 1 who might, even though he’s

797
00:50:37,670 –> 00:50:41,435
drunk, who might be acting and behaving in a

798
00:50:41,435 –> 00:50:45,115
way that is consistent with what is actual reality, which is why would

799
00:50:45,115 –> 00:50:48,575
anybody have a problem with this guy? Why don’t we just leave him alone?

800
00:50:49,100 –> 00:50:52,880
He’s not done anything to us. And

801
00:50:53,100 –> 00:50:55,680
this gets us in the 21st

802
00:50:56,460 –> 00:51:00,305
century because we don’t know why we do what

803
00:51:00,305 –> 00:51:04,145
we do. We are very sophisticated psychologically and sociologically, or at least

804
00:51:04,145 –> 00:51:07,190
we like to convince ourselves that we are because of all the research that we’ve

805
00:51:07,190 –> 00:51:10,950
done about human behavior going all the way back to the

806
00:51:10,950 –> 00:51:14,310
19 forties. We do we like to convince ourselves if we’re really

807
00:51:14,310 –> 00:51:18,105
sophisticated, but our motivations, why we actually do what we do, the stuff

808
00:51:18,105 –> 00:51:21,625
all the way down deep, stuff we don’t talk about. Oh, stuff we don’t talk

809
00:51:21,625 –> 00:51:24,924
about at cocktail parties with polite people,

810
00:51:25,599 –> 00:51:29,440
all that stuff is still down there. But we don’t like using those words. We

811
00:51:29,440 –> 00:51:33,140
we don’t like using words like envy or jealousy or vanity

812
00:51:33,280 –> 00:51:37,095
or pride or lust. We don’t like using any greed. We’re okay with

813
00:51:37,095 –> 00:51:40,935
using because back in the eighties, we decided that greed

814
00:51:40,935 –> 00:51:43,494
was something that we could tie to capitalism, so we’ll talk about that out loud

815
00:51:43,494 –> 00:51:46,430
all the time. But all those other these motivations,

816
00:51:47,530 –> 00:51:51,210
all of those other ones, like and III know this

817
00:51:51,210 –> 00:51:54,315
happens to me all the time. When I talk about envy out loud, when I

818
00:51:54,315 –> 00:51:56,975
talk about social media as an envy machine,

819
00:51:58,155 –> 00:52:01,920
which is really what it is, Mhmm. All of a sudden, everybody makes that sound

820
00:52:01,920 –> 00:52:05,760
right there that you just made, Kristen, and then most people have nothing else to

821
00:52:05,760 –> 00:52:09,474
say after that because they then pull out their phones and they get on Instagram

822
00:52:09,474 –> 00:52:11,875
because you can’t be off of Instagram for more than 5 minutes. Right? You can’t

823
00:52:11,875 –> 00:52:15,390
be off that NV machine for more than 5 minutes. Right? It’s

824
00:52:15,390 –> 00:52:19,069
okay. It’s fine. I’m there too. I’m no better. Oh,

825
00:52:19,069 –> 00:52:22,692
I actually, that was that

826
00:52:22,875 –> 00:52:26,174
when I started writing my book, it was 2020

827
00:52:26,570 –> 00:52:30,415
writers after the lockdowns. Yep. And I had also,

828
00:52:30,680 –> 00:52:33,740
at the same time decided to get off of social media. Yep.

829
00:52:35,000 –> 00:52:38,680
And discovered I had a book to write. So I did this

830
00:52:38,680 –> 00:52:41,405
instead. It feels a lot better.

831
00:52:44,985 –> 00:52:48,610
Well, it’s not just social media. Like, that’s easy to blame. Like, think

832
00:52:48,610 –> 00:52:52,290
about the services that we use that are driven by imagery. So I’ll

833
00:52:52,290 –> 00:52:56,095
use a perfect innocuous example. If you wanna buy a house, no

834
00:52:56,095 –> 00:52:59,775
1 is just driving around neighborhoods looking for for sale signs anymore. I know this.

835
00:52:59,934 –> 00:53:02,255
1 of the things that I do is I work Mhmm. I work in buying

836
00:53:02,255 –> 00:53:05,920
and selling of real essays, right Mhmm. In my local area. Everyone goes

837
00:53:05,920 –> 00:53:09,520
to an app on their phone called that begins with an a z and ends

838
00:53:09,520 –> 00:53:13,365
with anillo. Right? Everybody goes there. And there

839
00:53:13,365 –> 00:53:17,065
are pictures on that app that are designed

840
00:53:17,204 –> 00:53:20,744
with specific writers. This is what the AI does

841
00:53:20,980 –> 00:53:24,680
that are designed to get you to click on the capture

842
00:53:24,819 –> 00:53:28,520
and designed to get you to want it. Or and by the way, wanting

843
00:53:28,579 –> 00:53:32,215
means you don’t have. And when you don’t have, it

844
00:53:32,215 –> 00:53:35,835
means you desire. And when you desire, that comes from a place of

845
00:53:36,695 –> 00:53:40,030
I know we’re gonna use an old school word here. Makes everybody feel itchy, envy.

846
00:53:40,089 –> 00:53:43,789
Right. Okay. I would rather have that thing. Right?

847
00:53:44,490 –> 00:53:48,270
And this is how the psychology works. Always greener.

848
00:53:48,575 –> 00:53:51,955
Absolutely. Particularly if it’s if it’s if it’s enhanced through AI.

849
00:53:52,494 –> 00:53:56,335
And so The grass doesn’t even exist. It doesn’t. The grass

850
00:53:56,335 –> 00:53:59,030
ain’t even there, girl. Especially in Southern California.

851
00:54:00,050 –> 00:54:03,010
That’s That’s And the house is only 1, 900, 000. Of course, you can afford

852
00:54:03,010 –> 00:54:06,755
that with all those pictures. Of course, you can’t. And so, and

853
00:54:06,755 –> 00:54:08,615
and it’s only 1800 some more feet.

854
00:54:12,755 –> 00:54:16,490
Oh, that was a little too close to the bottom. That 1. I like

855
00:54:16,710 –> 00:54:20,550
the Well, we were in the market 3 years ago. I know. We’re a

856
00:54:20,550 –> 00:54:23,770
little too close to the truth there. And so

857
00:54:24,055 –> 00:54:27,415
Dumont, Alexandre Dumont, understood even back in

858
00:54:27,415 –> 00:54:30,935
1844 that manipulating motivations while

859
00:54:30,935 –> 00:54:34,420
disguising your own And Deng Lars is an effective leader in this

860
00:54:34,420 –> 00:54:37,400
seat. He’s leading categories, and he’s leading,

861
00:54:38,340 –> 00:54:42,164
for an own by their by their own motivations. You

862
00:54:42,164 –> 00:54:46,005
found the carrot to dangle? Bing. Well well, the end,

863
00:54:46,005 –> 00:54:49,065
I mean dangle. Ours dangle. That’s right. Particularly,

864
00:54:49,684 –> 00:54:53,470
and I’ll just put that together Particularly if you wanna lead

865
00:54:53,470 –> 00:54:54,450
people to destruction.

866
00:54:57,150 –> 00:55:00,925
1 of the things I think that strikes me about this, this

867
00:55:00,925 –> 00:55:04,605
situation, and I think it’s 1 of the things that makes me so angry and

868
00:55:04,605 –> 00:55:08,240
why I feel like Dante’s revenge is probably as

869
00:55:08,240 –> 00:55:11,860
close to justice as you can get. But it also strikes me as relevant.

870
00:55:12,640 –> 00:55:16,180
Today, they’re just mad that he’s happy

871
00:55:16,805 –> 00:55:20,405
and successful. Yeah. And Donker is not

872
00:55:20,405 –> 00:55:23,925
unsuccessful. That dude has probably, like what you

873
00:55:23,925 –> 00:55:27,140
said, a pretty coveted position Mhmm. And is

874
00:55:27,440 –> 00:55:31,119
and is doing well. Mhmm. So it’s like it comes back

875
00:55:31,119 –> 00:55:34,895
down to Edmund. But you can never reach us. But Edmund is happier than I

876
00:55:34,895 –> 00:55:38,615
am, so he must have something that I don’t. And because

877
00:55:38,615 –> 00:55:40,875
I don’t see a way to improve my own

878
00:55:42,359 –> 00:55:45,420
position, then I’m just going to destroy his.

879
00:55:46,119 –> 00:55:49,935
And that’s 1 of those things I think that I’ve noticed since I

880
00:55:49,935 –> 00:55:53,615
was literature, but was never able to articulate it. And that pisses me

881
00:55:53,615 –> 00:55:57,290
off. And I think where I see this today is

882
00:55:57,290 –> 00:56:00,590
when people start talking about, like the 1%.

883
00:56:01,050 –> 00:56:04,253
Mhmm. Yeah. The 1%. They should have mythical. They need fourth

884
00:56:04,970 –> 00:56:08,645
money. They should be doing this. They should be doing that. We’re like, you’re telling

885
00:56:08,645 –> 00:56:12,405
a lot of people who have more money than you how they should spend their

886
00:56:12,405 –> 00:56:16,190
money. Maybe spend your energy going and figuring out

887
00:56:16,190 –> 00:56:19,810
how you wanna make your money and stop looking at them.

888
00:56:20,190 –> 00:56:23,890
Now and that’s not to say, like, you and I, we’d like there’s unethical

889
00:56:24,734 –> 00:56:28,175
business practices all over, and I get that.

890
00:56:28,175 –> 00:56:32,000
Sure. But those those are like the

891
00:56:32,000 –> 00:56:35,119
the Uber billionaires. But do you think but do you think There’s plenty of people

892
00:56:35,119 –> 00:56:38,960
with 1, 000, 000 of dollars who are running their businesses very

893
00:56:38,960 –> 00:56:42,494
well and very ethically and treating their workers well. And, like

894
00:56:43,355 –> 00:56:47,035
so talk talk about them too. Right. Well and even

895
00:56:47,035 –> 00:56:50,819
with even with sort of this idea of there’s unethical

896
00:56:50,819 –> 00:56:54,180
businesses and things like that or unethical business practices or things are a little bit

897
00:56:54,180 –> 00:56:56,040
in the gray area, a little bit shady, whatever.

898
00:57:00,174 –> 00:57:03,714
Most of people’s perceptions of wealth are driven by

899
00:57:04,095 –> 00:57:07,535
the people who have who have attained celebrity with that wealth. So

900
00:57:07,775 –> 00:57:11,600
Yeah. Big example that is on everybody’s lips all the Tom. We

901
00:57:11,600 –> 00:57:14,720
talk about him at least once on this podcast. Almost every single episode is Elon

902
00:57:14,720 –> 00:57:18,565
Musk. It’s Musk. Yeah. It’s Musk. Because he puts himself out there.

903
00:57:18,565 –> 00:57:21,525
That’s number 1, but also number 2 but also number 2. And we can’t take

904
00:57:21,525 –> 00:57:25,204
this away from him. He takes risks that

905
00:57:25,204 –> 00:57:28,730
regular people wouldn’t take. So for instance,

906
00:57:29,110 –> 00:57:32,650
in the current with Tesla around

907
00:57:33,030 –> 00:57:36,775
his, compensation, he took no money from

908
00:57:36,775 –> 00:57:39,875
Tesla for 10 years.

909
00:57:41,295 –> 00:57:44,859
No salary. $0. Now that I didn’t

910
00:57:44,859 –> 00:57:48,619
know. That’s not what they put in the articles. Of course not. Because the

911
00:57:48,619 –> 00:57:52,365
media people who get paid $80, 000 a year can’t

912
00:57:52,365 –> 00:57:56,205
conceive of working for 10 years for no money and

913
00:57:56,205 –> 00:57:59,920
literally pouring in, and you can argue with this, but

914
00:57:59,920 –> 00:58:03,680
pouring in a 100 hours a week and sleeping on a factory floor

915
00:58:03,680 –> 00:58:07,375
in LA to make sure a car goes out the door. Many can’t conceive of

916
00:58:07,375 –> 00:58:11,155
doing their jobs that way. And so because their brain can’t get there,

917
00:58:11,935 –> 00:58:15,315
they go back Tom, well, that guy doesn’t deserve it because he’s unethical.

918
00:58:17,070 –> 00:58:20,530
No. No. No. No. He may be engaged in unethical practice.

919
00:58:20,830 –> 00:58:24,395
He may even be engaged in a practice that doesn’t really, like, go

920
00:58:24,395 –> 00:58:28,075
directly to be helpful for mental health or spiritual health Oh, yeah. Or

921
00:58:28,075 –> 00:58:31,580
emotional health. We can make those kinds of critiques. I’m open to all of that.

922
00:58:31,660 –> 00:58:35,200
Right. But the critique of that guy doesn’t deserve it

923
00:58:35,260 –> 00:58:38,860
because he somehow didn’t put in the book, I’m not open to that critique.

924
00:58:38,860 –> 00:58:42,355
No. He put in the work. He did the thing you would never you don’t

925
00:58:42,355 –> 00:58:45,875
have the courage to do. I would like to see 1 of the things

926
00:58:46,275 –> 00:58:49,890
more consideration for your mental well-being. No. But that’s just not like

927
00:58:50,130 –> 00:58:53,570
or fourth it’s just like just something you just don’t wanna do. Yeah. That that’s

928
00:58:53,570 –> 00:58:56,850
fine too. That’s fine too. I’ll take that too. You gotta be honest about that.

929
00:58:56,850 –> 00:59:00,655
Right? Be like, no. I don’t wanna go sleep on the factory floor and

930
00:59:00,655 –> 00:59:04,410
work on a car for a 100 hours. I just don’t never see my my

931
00:59:04,490 –> 00:59:08,170
10 children and, like, have people chasing me around all the

932
00:59:08,170 –> 00:59:11,849
blocks for money all the time. I’m good. If that’s the only way, I’ll find

933
00:59:11,849 –> 00:59:15,675
a different way to make a $1, 000, 000, 000. Chris, I’m like, there’s more

934
00:59:15,755 –> 00:59:18,635
If I really want a $1, 000, 000, 000, I’ll find a different way. There’s

935
00:59:18,635 –> 00:59:21,115
a And there’s more than 1 way to make a $1, 000, 000, 000. I

936
00:59:21,115 –> 00:59:24,800
mean, authors, writers, creatives.

937
00:59:25,340 –> 00:59:29,020
You know? And by the way, there’s another question that’s buried inside of there that

938
00:59:29,020 –> 00:59:32,615
we don’t even consider, which is this idea of, do we need a $1, 000,

939
00:59:32,615 –> 00:59:36,365
000, 000? No. Of course, we don’t. And then

940
00:59:36,365 –> 00:59:39,760
after that, well, then after that, there’s a sub question, which

941
00:59:39,760 –> 00:59:43,380
is, can you handle the responsibility

942
00:59:43,600 –> 00:59:47,280
and accountability that comes with a $1, 000, 000, 000? Nobody thinks about

943
00:59:47,280 –> 00:59:51,105
that. Nobody thinks about that. They think like, oh,

944
00:59:51,105 –> 00:59:53,105
if I had a $1, 000, 000, 000, all of my problems would be gone.

945
00:59:53,105 –> 00:59:56,625
Be like No. You got a $1, 000, 000, 000. There’s other problems with the

946
00:59:56,625 –> 01:00:00,161
$1, 000, 000, 000. It’s a new problem. And and what’s

947
01:00:00,161 –> 01:00:03,734
making those 1, 000, 000, 000 of dollars. You’d like case in

948
01:00:03,734 –> 01:00:07,275
point, Elon Musk. Like, everything he does, some people like

949
01:00:07,275 –> 01:00:10,715
and other people don’t. They’re like, it’s just And everybody’s got opinion on how he

950
01:00:10,715 –> 01:00:14,335
should spend his money. Yep. And and so

951
01:00:14,650 –> 01:00:18,410
when he did the Twitter acquisition, the big the big knock against him was, oh,

952
01:00:18,410 –> 01:00:22,250
you overspent 44, 000, 000, 000. I’m like and I I thought

953
01:00:22,250 –> 01:00:25,815
at the Tom, that’s just a canard and

954
01:00:25,815 –> 01:00:28,555
snark. It doesn’t mean anything.

955
01:00:29,495 –> 01:00:32,855
It’s almost a cliche trope at this point. He bought

956
01:00:32,855 –> 01:00:36,619
it because it was laying around. If I had $44, 000, 000, 000

957
01:00:37,400 –> 01:00:41,160
laying around, I would have bought it too because, a, I know

958
01:00:41,160 –> 01:00:44,115
that guy is gonna make me back my money, or I would have invested with

959
01:00:44,115 –> 01:00:46,995
that because, again, a, I know that guy is gonna book my money, b, I

960
01:00:46,995 –> 01:00:50,835
know he’s absolutely bat crap crazy, and c, which

961
01:00:50,835 –> 01:00:54,510
you sometimes need, and c, I know that he’s going to sleep on the floor

962
01:00:54,510 –> 01:00:57,070
for a 100 hours a week to make it work for at least the first

963
01:00:57,070 –> 01:01:00,210
2 years of it, and he’s gonna be up inside everybody’s

964
01:01:00,510 –> 01:01:04,315
behind at that building in a way that the previous

965
01:01:04,375 –> 01:01:06,555
management wasn’t.

966
01:01:07,815 –> 01:01:11,269
Done. Where do I sign up? Bet on that

967
01:01:11,269 –> 01:01:15,109
guy. It reminds me of we we we have such a

968
01:01:15,109 –> 01:01:18,725
rose colored, perspective on stuff like,

969
01:01:18,965 –> 01:01:22,565
and I read or used to read a ton of personal development books. So the

970
01:01:22,565 –> 01:01:25,865
big, example of that was Ford

971
01:01:26,329 –> 01:01:28,670
when he was having his engineers

972
01:01:30,089 –> 01:01:33,770
do the impossible and put that, like, single block engine

973
01:01:33,770 –> 01:01:36,375
together or whatever technically the engineering

974
01:01:37,395 –> 01:01:40,915
miracle was that he was asking for. And it makes me

975
01:01:40,915 –> 01:01:43,015
wonder, like, if that was happening today,

976
01:01:44,550 –> 01:01:48,230
what would the reception be? It’d be like, oh,

977
01:01:48,230 –> 01:01:52,010
he’s he’s he’s an idiot. He’s abusing his

978
01:01:52,095 –> 01:01:55,855
his engineers. He’s driving them. He’s he’s just

979
01:01:55,855 –> 01:01:59,615
slave drivers. This is it. Yeah. No. That’s it. Like but engineers were Like, he

980
01:01:59,615 –> 01:02:03,210
did like, because we wouldn’t have our cars. So NASA

981
01:02:03,830 –> 01:02:07,590
I’ll use example NASA. NASA knew about rockets that

982
01:02:07,590 –> 01:02:11,325
were reusable and would land, would go

983
01:02:11,325 –> 01:02:14,705
up, straight up, turn around, land

984
01:02:15,165 –> 01:02:18,780
land back fourth come back down and land on an

985
01:02:18,780 –> 01:02:22,620
ocean platform and be reusable again. They knew about

986
01:02:22,620 –> 01:02:26,425
that technology, like, 25, 30 years ago. NASA. The NASA

987
01:02:26,425 –> 01:02:30,225
engineers are not dumb. But and we’re gonna talk

988
01:02:30,225 –> 01:02:33,845
about bureaucratic drift here in a little bit because bureaucracy is huge

989
01:02:33,985 –> 01:02:37,440
in the first part of the comment, Christo. Bureaucrats

990
01:02:38,060 –> 01:02:41,680
don’t don’t innovate. They cannot. The bureaucratic mind

991
01:02:42,300 –> 01:02:45,715
looks at a technology like that and goes,

992
01:02:45,855 –> 01:02:49,295
nope. Not gonna do it Too risky. Because not only too

993
01:02:49,295 –> 01:02:52,975
risky, but we have to maintain processes and systems here so that everybody can keep

994
01:02:52,975 –> 01:02:56,150
getting paid. This is the difference between gatekeepers and insurgents.

995
01:02:57,570 –> 01:03:01,090
Elon looked at that, and this is literally and I don’t I don’t disagree. I

996
01:03:01,090 –> 01:03:04,545
don’t no. I’m sorry to disagree with him. When he said this in an interview

997
01:03:05,245 –> 01:03:08,605
years ago, somebody asked him, how did you develop SpaceX? And he said, oh, I

998
01:03:08,605 –> 01:03:12,086
read a book on theoretical fourth, and then I called NASA. And I tried I

999
01:03:12,086 –> 01:03:14,855
had, like, 3 meetings with them, and I realized they were morons. And I just

1000
01:03:14,855 –> 01:03:17,255
I just decided I was just gonna go off and do it myself.

1001
01:03:20,535 –> 01:03:24,375
Now I’m paraphrasing there, but that’s literally like, that’s that’s

1002
01:03:24,375 –> 01:03:27,470
not really. That’s a paraphrase of what he said. That’s that was the the the

1003
01:03:27,630 –> 01:03:30,910
he went and had meetings. Let me let me just back this up a little

1004
01:03:30,910 –> 01:03:34,675
bit. He went and had meetings with rocket scientists after reading a book about theoretical

1005
01:03:34,675 –> 01:03:38,115
physics and rocket science. Sitting in the room with

1006
01:03:38,115 –> 01:03:41,715
people and understanding that, okay, the knowledge that I have and the knowledge that they

1007
01:03:41,715 –> 01:03:45,260
have are the same, and yet

1008
01:03:45,260 –> 01:03:48,960
they’re not doing this thing that is so obvious. I’m going to go do it.

1009
01:03:51,195 –> 01:03:54,475
And the first knocking in SpaceX was Tom your point about Henry Ford and the

1010
01:03:54,475 –> 01:03:58,315
block engine. When the engineers were putting together those rockets and

1011
01:03:58,315 –> 01:04:01,800
getting getting, getting off the shelf rockets from

1012
01:04:01,800 –> 01:04:05,480
Russia, basically, because Russia wasn’t using any of their rockets, and they had to reverse

1013
01:04:05,480 –> 01:04:09,105
engineer they literally brought in engineers from NASA, and they readers engineered

1014
01:04:09,105 –> 01:04:12,385
rockets from Russia because NASA wouldn’t sell them any rockets when it sells basically to

1015
01:04:12,385 –> 01:04:15,825
anything. They’re like, oh, screw you guys. Kind of the way

1016
01:04:15,825 –> 01:04:19,360
Nissan did with Tesla initially when,

1017
01:04:19,920 –> 01:04:23,200
Tesla brought their battery technology to Nissan. Nissan was like, get the hell out the

1018
01:04:23,200 –> 01:04:26,608
door. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Right. Okay. Your book

1019
01:04:27,035 –> 01:04:30,815
Womp. Womp. Womp. Womp. Right. Corporate bureaucracies.

1020
01:04:31,115 –> 01:04:34,740
Right? And so Elon goes, okay. Well, we’ll just we’ll

1021
01:04:34,740 –> 01:04:38,579
spend a 100 hours a week figuring it out. He readers engineer now

1022
01:04:38,579 –> 01:04:42,224
he didn’t figure out himself, but he knew enough to push the engineers in the

1023
01:04:42,224 –> 01:04:45,825
direction where they needed to go on that technology. And the fourth the knock

1024
01:04:45,825 –> 01:04:49,400
against SpaceX was the same knock against people at Tesla. They are

1025
01:04:49,400 –> 01:04:52,380
spending too much Tom. He’s a slave driver. He’s inhumane.

1026
01:04:53,320 –> 01:04:56,680
But no one’s asking you to go do this thing. You wanna go be a

1027
01:04:56,680 –> 01:05:00,244
journalist, go be a journalist. You wanna work 40 hours a week and then go

1028
01:05:00,244 –> 01:05:03,125
see your kids and, like, complain about stuff on the Internet or watch a Netflix

1029
01:05:03,125 –> 01:05:06,964
thing and then go flop into bed? Right? That’s the thing. Be happy with that.

1030
01:05:06,964 –> 01:05:10,609
But danglers, like danglers, can’t be happy

1031
01:05:10,609 –> 01:05:14,450
unless every journalist or particularly notorious for this, can’t be happy unless everybody

1032
01:05:14,450 –> 01:05:18,075
else is unhappy. And I don’t understand why. Mindset. It’s so

1033
01:05:18,075 –> 01:05:21,727
it’s so like, it reminds me of the crabs. Yes. Crabs in book

1034
01:05:21,755 –> 01:05:25,260
Crabs in the bucket. Crabs in the bucket. Just like, woah.

1035
01:05:27,320 –> 01:05:31,105
Woah. Revenge and manipulation. So

1036
01:05:31,405 –> 01:05:33,744
Bringing it back around. Yeah. Bringing it back on.

1037
01:05:36,045 –> 01:05:39,339
Why are those such powerful drivers for for understanding

1038
01:05:40,280 –> 01:05:44,040
people in literature? And and why do leaders

1039
01:05:44,040 –> 01:05:47,099
need to, like, be on the lookout for those as

1040
01:05:48,105 –> 01:05:51,865
drivers? Or maybe a better question is this. How can

1041
01:05:51,865 –> 01:05:55,705
leaders spot when someone on their team is jealous

1042
01:05:55,705 –> 01:05:58,880
of them and wants what they have? Because this is not something where somebody walks

1043
01:05:58,880 –> 01:06:02,240
up to you and goes or very Sorrells, very

1044
01:06:02,240 –> 01:06:05,965
rarely does someone walk up to you and go I I

1045
01:06:05,965 –> 01:06:09,745
think I’ve only I mean, I I have a consultancy where we do leadership development.

1046
01:06:09,805 –> 01:06:13,520
I’ve been doing it for 12 years professionally and 20 years total, and

1047
01:06:13,600 –> 01:06:16,560
I think I’ve only had a handful of times fourth I’ve had somebody walk up

1048
01:06:16,560 –> 01:06:20,000
to me and they they tell me they tell me, hey,

1049
01:06:20,000 –> 01:06:23,825
XYZ person told me yesterday that they they should have had my job. That’s

1050
01:06:23,825 –> 01:06:26,785
a handful of times. Most people don’t have the courage to go do that to

1051
01:06:26,785 –> 01:06:30,545
somebody else. So how do leaders spot that that envy

1052
01:06:30,545 –> 01:06:34,140
and that jealousy that might be a motivator on their team?

1053
01:06:35,799 –> 01:06:39,319
Because I’m fascinated by the 2nd negative motivators. Difficult

1054
01:06:39,319 –> 01:06:43,065
question to answer, I think, because the manifestation of the of

1055
01:06:43,065 –> 01:06:46,825
the manifestation of or the behaviors from the

1056
01:06:46,825 –> 01:06:50,505
emotions is gonna be different for everybody. So I could tell you how you could

1057
01:06:50,505 –> 01:06:54,190
spot it in me. But

1058
01:06:54,190 –> 01:06:57,869
I but I’m only 1 Jesan. And You’re screaming across the upper

1059
01:06:57,869 –> 01:07:01,665
room? I Jesan, no.

1060
01:07:01,665 –> 01:07:05,185
I mean, the passive aggressive behavior, I think, is a is a is a

1061
01:07:05,185 –> 01:07:09,000
good 1 to look for. This

1062
01:07:09,080 –> 01:07:10,940
that that that seems like a,

1063
01:07:14,680 –> 01:07:18,245
what am I trying to say? Like, a lot of people would do that, I

1064
01:07:18,245 –> 01:07:21,765
think, from that that seed of discontent or

1065
01:07:21,765 –> 01:07:23,065
jealousy or

1066
01:07:26,020 –> 01:07:29,640
and be yeah. The passive aggressive behavior would definitely be

1067
01:07:29,860 –> 01:07:33,620
1 of those things to look at. Kinda always, what are they it’s almost

1068
01:07:33,620 –> 01:07:37,315
like like miserly behavior as well because

1069
01:07:37,315 –> 01:07:41,155
it becomes, to, you know, to move back into personal

1070
01:07:41,155 –> 01:07:43,655
development verbiage, scarcity versus

1071
01:07:45,300 –> 01:07:49,060
Abundance. Yeah. Mind mindset. Right? They like

1072
01:07:49,140 –> 01:07:52,945
and like Danglar. Right? Mhmm. Penny pinching. Every little

1073
01:07:52,945 –> 01:07:54,565
thing. What’s the other word?

1074
01:07:57,505 –> 01:08:01,280
Not nitpicking, but, you know, it’s that kind of that grasp being that

1075
01:08:01,280 –> 01:08:04,800
like every little nitpick, like, have to have every

1076
01:08:04,800 –> 01:08:08,420
penny accounted for. And it comes from a place of

1077
01:08:09,305 –> 01:08:12,905
I have to grasping. Writers? So I think if you

1078
01:08:12,905 –> 01:08:16,104
start to see some of that and that could probably manifest in a couple of

1079
01:08:16,104 –> 01:08:17,005
different ways.

1080
01:08:21,890 –> 01:08:25,030
Well, I don’t know. I don’t know because I’ve never worked in, like, a corporate

1081
01:08:25,890 –> 01:08:28,835
Yeah. Corporate environment. Yeah. Environment before, but

1082
01:08:29,635 –> 01:08:33,475
just just my brain throwing out possible examples. Like, if

1083
01:08:33,475 –> 01:08:36,835
you’re assigning projects, particularly if there’s,

1084
01:08:36,835 –> 01:08:40,510
like, bonuses or, commission

1085
01:08:40,569 –> 01:08:43,630
involved, whoever is complaining

1086
01:08:44,409 –> 01:08:46,590
that they didn’t get more.

1087
01:08:47,955 –> 01:08:51,795
Yeah. That would be the first person that I’d be

1088
01:08:51,795 –> 01:08:55,010
like, alright. Well, ask yourself why.

1089
01:08:56,529 –> 01:09:00,369
Why didn’t you get more? Fourth get Sorrells? Like, well, if you gave

1090
01:09:00,369 –> 01:09:03,250
me more, then I could prove myself. Like, you got

1091
01:09:04,575 –> 01:09:07,795
the company can’t take that risk. You gotta prove yourself before

1092
01:09:08,735 –> 01:09:12,340
you get more. That’s a mindset that I think we’re losing, and it’s

1093
01:09:12,500 –> 01:09:16,040
very present in, personal development entrepreneurship entrepreneurship

1094
01:09:16,260 –> 01:09:19,800
is this working without compensation with the idea

1095
01:09:19,939 –> 01:09:23,654
that you will earn more literature can be taken advantage

1096
01:09:23,654 –> 01:09:27,175
of, and I think that’s part of why people have this like like, they smart

1097
01:09:27,175 –> 01:09:30,939
against it. But Yeah.

1098
01:09:30,939 –> 01:09:34,699
Exactly. There’s like a there’s I feel like there’s probably an end. There’s

1099
01:09:34,699 –> 01:09:37,985
probably a middle ground that we can find. Well, I think the I think the

1100
01:09:37,985 –> 01:09:40,705
I think the part of the middle ground there, and this is so I work

1101
01:09:40,705 –> 01:09:44,409
a lot with startups. Right? In class So with class? You

1102
01:09:44,409 –> 01:09:47,770
know, you’re going to eat beans and rice for x number of

1103
01:09:47,770 –> 01:09:51,529
whatevers until, like, this thing happens. Right? I’m currently in a startup right now

1104
01:09:51,529 –> 01:09:54,015
myself fourth Sorrells organization that’s in startup mode where

1105
01:09:55,855 –> 01:09:58,995
I I’m gonna have equity, whatever, but, like,

1106
01:09:59,855 –> 01:10:03,500
whatever that means. But myself and this group of people who are together,

1107
01:10:03,500 –> 01:10:07,340
there’s, like, 14 or 15 of us together. None of us are getting paid

1108
01:10:07,340 –> 01:10:11,145
out of this project. Kind of in a startup right now. I forgot. I

1109
01:10:11,145 –> 01:10:14,905
bought a business. I bought a music

1110
01:10:14,905 –> 01:10:18,420
store that’s kind of in startup mode right now. That’s in startup mode. Yeah.

1111
01:10:18,580 –> 01:10:22,100
Because we’re recovering from COVID. Yeah. Yeah.

1112
01:10:22,100 –> 01:10:25,480
Yeah. And all, just The disease that shall not be named.

1113
01:10:27,805 –> 01:10:31,485
Yeah. I forget I forget that I bought it. Like, I

1114
01:10:31,485 –> 01:10:35,165
just, like, it’s It’s a store. It’s fine. That in November, and then my baby

1115
01:10:35,165 –> 01:10:38,450
came. I was just like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. My life is completely different now. It’s

1116
01:10:38,450 –> 01:10:41,970
fine. Yeah. It’s fine. But it’s but you’re gonna experience the same thing in a

1117
01:10:41,970 –> 01:10:45,525
small business where I’m not getting paid. You’re not gonna get right. Right.

1118
01:10:45,525 –> 01:10:49,205
Like, I I had to explain this 1 time to some employees of mine, who

1119
01:10:49,205 –> 01:10:52,780
are working with me. I said, there are there are months where I do not

1120
01:10:52,780 –> 01:10:56,480
take a salary from here so that the rest of you can get paid. Mhmm.

1121
01:10:56,860 –> 01:10:59,200
And he stared at me in utter,

1122
01:11:00,715 –> 01:11:04,235
like, disbelief. Right? And the

1123
01:11:04,235 –> 01:11:07,535
reason why those types of associations

1124
01:11:08,190 –> 01:11:11,970
offend people, particularly bureaucrat people with a bureaucratic mindset. Like, I remember

1125
01:11:12,430 –> 01:11:16,185
back in 2010, it might have been or

1126
01:11:16,185 –> 01:11:19,775
maybe it was 2009, because it was the

1127
01:11:19,775 –> 01:11:23,135
2nd administration. Yeah. And it took it’s it took us it was Tom started in

1128
01:11:23,135 –> 01:11:26,815
his first Barack Obama’s fourth administration, and then it took his Jesan administration to actually

1129
01:11:26,815 –> 01:11:29,940
implement it. But, he

1130
01:11:30,239 –> 01:11:33,699
he began the push of this idea that internships,

1131
01:11:34,864 –> 01:11:38,625
college internships should be paid. Right? AOC runs around screaming about

1132
01:11:38,625 –> 01:11:42,385
this. And it’s this idea that, and and this is the AOC

1133
01:11:42,385 –> 01:11:45,960
line or the Barack Obama line that, you know, my getting my

1134
01:11:45,960 –> 01:11:49,560
experience shouldn’t be for free or something like that. And I

1135
01:11:49,560 –> 01:11:53,055
thought you will get your money

1136
01:11:53,055 –> 01:11:56,275
eventually. Mhmm. You’re 20.

1137
01:11:58,175 –> 01:12:01,830
The best thing you can do right now when you have no children,

1138
01:12:01,830 –> 01:12:05,050
no responsibilities, or minimal responsibilities,

1139
01:12:05,750 –> 01:12:09,130
you’re living and I and I when I was 20,

1140
01:12:09,475 –> 01:12:13,235
I think I made $8, 000 in a year. You’re living on the dole from

1141
01:12:13,235 –> 01:12:16,514
somebody else. You just are at 20. What

1142
01:12:17,120 –> 01:12:20,560
unless you’re 1 of those outlier 20 year olds that’s, like, been hustling since you

1143
01:12:20,560 –> 01:12:24,239
were like, you’re Warren Buffett. You’ve been hustling since you were, like, 8. Okay? Though

1144
01:12:24,239 –> 01:12:27,954
you’re outliers. Right? Mhmm. But if you’re the vast majority. 98%

1145
01:12:28,255 –> 01:12:31,715
of you are gonna be living on the door. What possible

1146
01:12:31,934 –> 01:12:35,740
experience could you have that’s worth paying for? And by the way,

1147
01:12:35,740 –> 01:12:39,420
if you’re a person who has to pay bills and you take on

1148
01:12:39,420 –> 01:12:43,200
an leadership, that is for free,

1149
01:12:43,815 –> 01:12:47,655
you better have done that risk versus reward thing in your head already. That’s not

1150
01:12:47,655 –> 01:12:51,255
my responsibility as the organization to do that thing for you. It’s

1151
01:12:51,255 –> 01:12:54,370
your responsibility to have done that thing. That’s called free association.

1152
01:12:55,070 –> 01:12:58,909
And when Obama’s administration shifted the rules around

1153
01:12:58,909 –> 01:13:02,689
internships to make them to basically penalize employers

1154
01:13:02,689 –> 01:13:04,015
fourth doing unpaid internships,

1155
01:13:06,155 –> 01:13:09,990
that that was the death knell of or

1156
01:13:09,990 –> 01:13:13,510
the death knell the beginning of the death knell of what you’re talking about, which

1157
01:13:13,510 –> 01:13:17,190
is this idea that everyone, if they’re in the

1158
01:13:17,190 –> 01:13:20,804
market, should somehow be paid for something. And

1159
01:13:20,804 –> 01:13:24,505
that’s not that’s not true. No. You have to be providing value.

1160
01:13:25,045 –> 01:13:28,869
Right. And you’re not providing value just by showing up and being

1161
01:13:28,869 –> 01:13:32,525
you. That’s not valuable. Like, we like

1162
01:13:32,525 –> 01:13:36,125
to say it’s valuable. Start a YouTube channel and see how

1163
01:13:36,125 –> 01:13:39,885
valuable that is. This is this is true. Exactly. It’s not

1164
01:13:39,885 –> 01:13:43,650
true. For some people. For some people, it works. Right. Those are

1165
01:13:43,650 –> 01:13:47,330
usually the crazies. Right. Or or, like, or start podcast. Like, this

1166
01:13:47,570 –> 01:13:51,415
Yeah. You’re like, we get a decent amount of downloads per month and a

1167
01:13:51,415 –> 01:13:55,094
decent amount of downloads per week. We’re not killing it. We

1168
01:13:55,094 –> 01:13:58,465
will be in x number of years if we keep going on a particular path.

1169
01:13:58,465 –> 01:14:02,250
Right. But this is the other thing. Like, it’s 10 years to an overnight success.

1170
01:14:02,250 –> 01:14:04,020
Yep. It’s always 10 years. So you bought a music store, it’ll be 10 years

1171
01:14:04,020 –> 01:14:05,400
to climb out of COVID.

1172
01:14:08,985 –> 01:14:11,145
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it’ll be the it’ll be

1173
01:14:11,225 –> 01:14:13,545
Yeah. And in the meantime, I have to figure out how to pay off that,

1174
01:14:15,545 –> 01:14:19,220
that financing. That financing. Yes. Exactly. And and

1175
01:14:19,220 –> 01:14:21,860
no 1 and by the way, no. No. No. 1 of your not 1 of

1176
01:14:21,860 –> 01:14:25,540
the employees that you have, not 1 of the or or in in the

1177
01:14:25,540 –> 01:14:28,695
start up that I’m working with, not 1 of the the founders that we’re working

1178
01:14:28,695 –> 01:14:32,295
with is going to be able to effectively sort of help

1179
01:14:32,295 –> 01:14:36,080
us walk through that idea. And so you

1180
01:14:36,080 –> 01:14:39,600
have to and it it was a real learning curve for me to figure that

1181
01:14:39,600 –> 01:14:43,285
out, and that’s the last gas of the employee mindset. The last

1182
01:14:43,285 –> 01:14:46,885
gas with the employee mindset is the whining that, oh, it’s not

1183
01:14:46,885 –> 01:14:50,325
terrible, and people don’t love you. Why don’t people appreciate me? It’s not fair. And

1184
01:14:50,325 –> 01:14:53,860
you’re getting rid of all that. You gotta that’s dead weight. None of that’s helping

1185
01:14:53,860 –> 01:14:57,540
you. I go to Comic Con, San Diego Comic Con every year, and every year,

1186
01:14:57,540 –> 01:15:01,295
I end it with this panel by this editor who has been in the

1187
01:15:01,295 –> 01:15:05,055
industry for decades. Yeah. Just decades.

1188
01:15:05,055 –> 01:15:08,650
And the first thing or the thing she says every year because she free

1189
01:15:09,670 –> 01:15:13,425
free free hands, whatever it’s called. She she just goes. She just talks.

1190
01:15:13,485 –> 01:15:16,525
She just comes and just writes on the whiteboard and starts talking. Yeah. She’s just

1191
01:15:16,614 –> 01:15:20,305
turning. Mile a minute. But, the first thing she says

1192
01:15:20,840 –> 01:15:24,300
is nobody owes you anything. Nobody owes you a sale.

1193
01:15:24,520 –> 01:15:27,975
Nobody owes you a read of a sentence. If you

1194
01:15:28,175 –> 01:15:31,695
nobody owes you like, if you wanna put a comic out there, nobody owes

1195
01:15:31,695 –> 01:15:35,510
you. Like, it’s your job Right. To

1196
01:15:35,510 –> 01:15:39,349
make it, you know, desirable, marketable, like people want to read

1197
01:15:39,349 –> 01:15:42,949
it. You gotta write something or draw something that people want to

1198
01:15:42,949 –> 01:15:46,795
consume. So this is a good segue into PECO and

1199
01:15:46,795 –> 01:15:50,594
Random House and writers and AI. So AI,

1200
01:15:50,594 –> 01:15:53,920
I this is 1 of the things I really wanna ask you about. So AI,

1201
01:15:54,000 –> 01:15:57,600
large language algorithms are here now. And in the

1202
01:15:57,600 –> 01:16:01,440
fiction space where you are at Thankfully, they are

1203
01:16:01,440 –> 01:16:05,215
still terrible. They they are oh, they are horrible. They are horrible. They’re

1204
01:16:05,215 –> 01:16:08,574
still terrible at the fiction thing. They are well, because, you know, they are

1205
01:16:08,895 –> 01:16:12,500
Honestly, I think it’s only a matter of time. You you don’t really I don’t

1206
01:16:12,500 –> 01:16:15,380
I don’t think they’re ever gonna get to the nuance of no. No. No. Here’s

1207
01:16:15,380 –> 01:16:17,540
what I think. No. No. No. Here’s here’s what I think. I think there will

1208
01:16:17,540 –> 01:16:19,780
be I read a lot of sci fi. So, yes, I think it’s a good

1209
01:16:19,780 –> 01:16:21,745
amount of Tom. I know you don’t. Oh, I know you don’t even need to.

1210
01:16:21,745 –> 01:16:25,505
So I remember the line from, oh gosh. It’s from

1211
01:16:25,505 –> 01:16:29,025
Moneyball that’s, like, clipped and memed, from Brad who

1212
01:16:29,025 –> 01:16:32,840
hit such a great movie where he says, you know, there’s there’s

1213
01:16:32,900 –> 01:16:36,739
the the elite Tom here, then there’s then there’s 20 feet

1214
01:16:36,739 –> 01:16:40,355
of crap, and then there’s us. And you know what that 20

1215
01:16:40,355 –> 01:16:43,895
feet of crap is gonna be? The AI produced fiction content.

1216
01:16:44,515 –> 01:16:48,250
And we are going to we, The algorithms and people who are looking to get

1217
01:16:48,250 –> 01:16:51,310
rich quick all the way at the end of the long tail, at the furthest

1218
01:16:51,450 –> 01:16:55,070
tippy tippy tip of the long tail, and this is already starting to happen,

1219
01:16:55,205 –> 01:16:58,725
are gonna create content that will to

1220
01:16:58,725 –> 01:17:02,565
paraphrase from from a essay I read in, a couple

1221
01:17:02,565 –> 01:17:05,990
of months ago that will the

1222
01:17:05,990 –> 01:17:07,290
Internet, basically.

1223
01:17:09,590 –> 01:17:12,970
More. You’re a content crew more than it already is. Right? More.

1224
01:17:13,304 –> 01:17:17,145
Now I am shit on the Internet. Oh, yeah. And then

1225
01:17:17,145 –> 01:17:20,505
I Just go to Wattpad. Just go to I wasn’t gonna bring it up. I

1226
01:17:20,505 –> 01:17:22,670
wasn’t gonna say which I will admit we are

1227
01:17:24,429 –> 01:17:27,969
posting. Because, hey. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. Like,

1228
01:17:28,030 –> 01:17:31,665
you’re not making any money. It’s not like, a lot of How do people separate

1229
01:17:31,665 –> 01:17:34,885
them the quality writing from the crap

1230
01:17:36,065 –> 01:17:39,750
when they gotta fuck it. And if Penguin Random House isn’t gonna help you,

1231
01:17:39,750 –> 01:17:43,110
because they’re not gonna help you They’re not. No. They’re they’re fighting

1232
01:17:43,110 –> 01:17:46,635
for for any foothold or toehold or

1233
01:17:46,635 –> 01:17:50,415
fingernail hold they can maintain on an incredibly shrinking fat head.

1234
01:17:50,635 –> 01:17:54,440
Yeah. Writers so so they’re not gonna help you. They’re not gonna publish your

1235
01:17:54,440 –> 01:17:58,200
books. They’re too busy publishing the Bible and Shakespeare for the until,

1236
01:17:58,200 –> 01:18:01,915
like, until, like, you know come home. Whatever the phrase Or Jesus

1237
01:18:01,915 –> 01:18:05,435
comes back or nuclear weapons or roaches come out and, you know, all the insurance

1238
01:18:05,435 –> 01:18:08,094
companies send out the final checks and then they collapse. Like,

1239
01:18:09,860 –> 01:18:12,340
this is what they’re doing. Right? And they plan on doing it all the way

1240
01:18:12,340 –> 01:18:15,320
to the end. Right? The bitter end, and it will be a bitter end,

1241
01:18:16,715 –> 01:18:20,315
which is why that merger was gonna happen. So how do we I have so

1242
01:18:20,315 –> 01:18:23,994
many questions here. How do we take like, the kind of Monte

1243
01:18:23,994 –> 01:18:27,790
Cristo could probably work now, in a serialized

1244
01:18:27,930 –> 01:18:31,690
form, but it’d have to be on YouTube with TikTok videos around it,

1245
01:18:31,690 –> 01:18:34,570
and Dumas would have to come on and do a TikTok dance to promote it,

1246
01:18:34,570 –> 01:18:37,545
which he probably would do do that just fine. You would have to do a

1247
01:18:37,545 –> 01:18:41,065
long form YouTube kind of thing. You’d have to have a long form YouTube show

1248
01:18:41,065 –> 01:18:43,225
to support the account of Monte Cristo, and then you have to go on a

1249
01:18:43,225 –> 01:18:46,960
bunch of podcasts to support that. And it would be this whole marketing

1250
01:18:47,020 –> 01:18:50,699
structure around this 1 little piece of content, which then, of course, would not allow

1251
01:18:50,699 –> 01:18:54,080
him to scale the content because that’s where his real talents and skills were,

1252
01:18:54,555 –> 01:18:57,855
which is why certain people have long at certain times. Right?

1253
01:18:58,475 –> 01:19:01,455
But You have just articulated our conundrum.

1254
01:19:01,835 –> 01:19:05,060
Why? Expert. It is. It is. Yes. It is the kind of

1255
01:19:05,300 –> 01:19:08,600
Yep. I write nonfiction business books. All nonfiction

1256
01:19:08,739 –> 01:19:12,395
business books sell all, not all, sell well

1257
01:19:12,395 –> 01:19:15,775
over 80% of their copies in the first, like, 6 weeks of release

1258
01:19:16,395 –> 01:19:19,855
Wow. Of their lifetime of their lifetime.

1259
01:19:21,160 –> 01:19:25,000
So a business book like Napoleon Hill’s Eat and Grow Rich or

1260
01:19:25,000 –> 01:19:27,820
Think and Grow Rich or whatever, Eat and Grow Rich. Think and Grow Rich fourth

1261
01:19:27,880 –> 01:19:30,844
Dale Carnegie, How to Win Friends and Influence. The reason why we still about Dale

1262
01:19:30,844 –> 01:19:34,667
Carnegie and Napoleon Hill is because they came along at a time when you could

1263
01:19:34,667 –> 01:19:38,235
sell to a literate public, and you could sell a 100, 000 copies, and then

1264
01:19:38,235 –> 01:19:41,800
your legacy just rose like a mountain over time. But if you’re

1265
01:19:41,800 –> 01:19:45,480
publishing a book, a business book business nonfiction book in

1266
01:19:45,480 –> 01:19:49,195
2024, there’s so much garbage. There’s the elite, which is the

1267
01:19:49,195 –> 01:19:52,955
Adam Grant, Malcolm Gladwell folks of the world. Then there’s not

1268
01:19:52,955 –> 01:19:56,415
20 feet. There’s a 150 feet of garbage.

1269
01:19:56,900 –> 01:20:00,260
And then there’s you squirming around the bottom like a roach trying to figure out

1270
01:20:00,340 –> 01:20:03,060
that’s me. Scrolling around the bottom like a roach trying to figure out how to

1271
01:20:03,060 –> 01:20:06,465
get through the 150 feet crap. The roaches survive. They

1272
01:20:06,465 –> 01:20:09,605
do, and they eat a lot of crap. Yes.

1273
01:20:10,945 –> 01:20:14,784
And that’s why we have them. And so when not the nonfiction business book space,

1274
01:20:14,784 –> 01:20:18,600
it’s vicious. No 1 ever talks about how few nonfiction books

1275
01:20:19,060 –> 01:20:22,875
celebrities sell. No 1 ever talks about that because it

1276
01:20:22,875 –> 01:20:26,715
would be in his biographies. Oh, it would be embarrassing. Oh,

1277
01:20:26,715 –> 01:20:29,615
god. It would be embarrassing. Like, Principles by Ray Dalio.

1278
01:20:30,680 –> 01:20:33,960
I think the book came out 10 years ago now. Oh, I’m not Reason was

1279
01:20:33,960 –> 01:20:37,000
on my list for a while Yeah. And I didn’t buy it. No. Writers. Nobody’s

1280
01:20:37,000 –> 01:20:40,685
read that book all the way through, and Ray Dalio knows it. Like well,

1281
01:20:40,685 –> 01:20:44,365
anyway, there’s all kinds of scams that are done to get those books

1282
01:20:44,365 –> 01:20:48,080
into the New York Times bestseller list. We can get 10, 000 copies. Heard about

1283
01:20:48,320 –> 01:20:51,920
that. Yes. It’s so frustrating. The New

1284
01:20:51,920 –> 01:20:55,680
York best type that that doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t mean anything. It’s it’s a

1285
01:20:55,680 –> 01:20:58,815
marketing turning, right? It’s become a marketing thing. It used to mean something, but now

1286
01:20:58,815 –> 01:21:02,575
it doesn’t. But it’s Like, I’ve heard of writers that will buy the 10,

1287
01:21:02,575 –> 01:21:06,270
000 books themselves Mhmm. Yep. Just to make sure that it gets

1288
01:21:06,270 –> 01:21:09,710
to the New York best times. And then they give the copies away, and then

1289
01:21:09,710 –> 01:21:12,690
they have that marking yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

1290
01:21:14,905 –> 01:21:18,045
What do you but in fiction, I don’t know what the rules are in fiction.

1291
01:21:18,825 –> 01:21:20,985
I I don’t know. I don’t know what the rules are in fiction. Like, you

1292
01:21:20,985 –> 01:21:24,289
said you just wrote a trilogy. You I I presume you wrote it with as

1293
01:21:24,289 –> 01:21:27,750
a human being, not using AI. Of course. You’ve got AI.

1294
01:21:28,610 –> 01:21:32,445
You have AI, And then you’ve got which is gonna create a problem for all

1295
01:21:32,445 –> 01:21:35,344
the fiction writers. Yeah. And you even said it yourself.

1296
01:21:36,284 –> 01:21:40,090
And then and then you’ve got the marketing, you know,

1297
01:21:40,090 –> 01:21:43,849
scheme around the book. Right? And then you’ve got the

1298
01:21:43,849 –> 01:21:47,615
fact that you might only sell a 1, 000 of these books. That’s not really

1299
01:21:47,615 –> 01:21:51,235
an option for me. And I’m grateful that I worked as an entrepreneur

1300
01:21:51,375 –> 01:21:54,735
and made no money for 10 years. Yeah.

1301
01:21:54,735 –> 01:21:58,429
Because I finally it’s 1 of those things where I look back and I’m like,

1302
01:21:58,429 –> 01:22:01,170
this is what all this shit was for. Yeah. I think.

1303
01:22:03,070 –> 01:22:06,525
You know, I’ve tried what is it? Do you

1304
01:22:06,605 –> 01:22:10,285
every 9 out of 10 businesses fail? Oh, yeah. It’s like so

1305
01:22:10,285 –> 01:22:13,440
I I think that’s what all the failure that what this was for is like,

1306
01:22:13,440 –> 01:22:17,040
I’m just gonna keep going until this book sells. Right. I’m not

1307
01:22:17,040 –> 01:22:20,864
gonna I’m not gonna stop. Yeah. But I think

1308
01:22:20,864 –> 01:22:24,305
you need that. And I think a lot of authors or

1309
01:22:24,305 –> 01:22:27,905
aspiring writers just don’t understand that that’s the kind of

1310
01:22:27,905 –> 01:22:31,619
mindset you need. Mhmm. Especially with this. Like, I

1311
01:22:31,619 –> 01:22:35,380
don’t like, if we if, you know, we’re probably gonna self publish first. We’ll

1312
01:22:35,380 –> 01:22:39,094
try that. I have a friend who, like, is

1313
01:22:39,094 –> 01:22:42,695
an expert and coaches people on, you know, the SEO of Amazon. We’re like,

1314
01:22:42,695 –> 01:22:46,534
okay. We’ll try that. Like, if that doesn’t work, we’ll try something

1315
01:22:46,534 –> 01:22:48,554
else. Like, we’re just gonna keep trying,

1316
01:22:50,480 –> 01:22:54,180
and I’m gonna keep writers. Right. Yeah. Like, it’s just like, I I

1317
01:22:54,880 –> 01:22:58,695
and though I think 1 of the things is, like, what

1318
01:22:58,695 –> 01:23:01,915
keeps you going Mhmm. Is like, well, I would rather write than

1319
01:23:02,935 –> 01:23:06,650
do most other things. Mhmm. The I

1320
01:23:06,650 –> 01:23:10,190
grew up playing video games. I love video games. And

1321
01:23:10,570 –> 01:23:14,365
the the tell for me was when I started it was like, would I

1322
01:23:14,365 –> 01:23:18,125
rather play Jesan right now fourth would I rather write? I’m like, I’m

1323
01:23:18,125 –> 01:23:21,780
gonna go write. I was like, woah. That’s

1324
01:23:21,780 –> 01:23:25,620
weird. I never thought that would happen. Never ever would I that would I

1325
01:23:25,620 –> 01:23:28,360
have thought that I would be doing something work

1326
01:23:29,114 –> 01:23:31,695
related that I would rather do that would

1327
01:23:34,394 –> 01:23:37,454
it’s because games are designed to feel rewarding.

1328
01:23:38,010 –> 01:23:41,790
Right. Which is why we have such a massive intellect trapped

1329
01:23:42,810 –> 01:23:46,110
in virtual worlds, which I think is the biggest

1330
01:23:46,330 –> 01:23:50,144
shame. Ready player 1 exists for a reason like

1331
01:23:50,144 –> 01:23:53,784
that. Like like And nailed it in that first book. He did. He

1332
01:23:53,784 –> 01:23:57,165
nailed it perfectly. It just there’s so much

1333
01:24:00,190 –> 01:24:03,170
intelligence just stuck

1334
01:24:03,870 –> 01:24:06,935
in video games right now. And that’s not to say they’re playing video there’s nothing

1335
01:24:06,935 –> 01:24:10,615
wrong with playing video games. I love video games. But, man,

1336
01:24:10,615 –> 01:24:13,835
if we could figure out how to get them a little bit of confidence

1337
01:24:14,300 –> 01:24:17,840
and get that what is it that that problem solving

1338
01:24:18,300 –> 01:24:22,005
mindset that is just inherent in all video game playing to

1339
01:24:22,005 –> 01:24:25,685
solve the problems of the world. Well, this is my this is my concern with

1340
01:24:25,685 –> 01:24:29,525
AI because my concern with our with large language algorithms is not necessarily on the

1341
01:24:29,525 –> 01:24:32,860
creative and in the the craft Yeah. That’s what we’re talking about. Content end. It’s

1342
01:24:32,860 –> 01:24:36,700
not necessarily that. But it is it is this idea that because this is

1343
01:24:36,700 –> 01:24:40,325
already starting to happen. We’re gonna take the data the

1344
01:24:40,325 –> 01:24:43,225
data pattern recognition process of an LLM.

1345
01:24:44,085 –> 01:24:47,865
We’re going to put that machine next to the machine of virtual reality,

1346
01:24:48,005 –> 01:24:51,800
the VR machine. And, of course, because

1347
01:24:51,800 –> 01:24:55,639
it’s 2 algorithms talking to each other, they’re gonna pattern recognition and solve for each

1348
01:24:55,639 –> 01:24:58,060
other all the way out to the logical end.

1349
01:24:59,515 –> 01:25:03,195
And my concern is not that we’re gonna have a Terminator thing

1350
01:25:03,195 –> 01:25:06,875
where the AI jumps out into the physical thing and start shooting people, although

1351
01:25:06,875 –> 01:25:09,900
that very well may be a thing. I think Google’s working on that on the

1352
01:25:09,900 –> 01:25:13,580
side. Oh, fourth sure. There’s I I think they’re definitely working on

1353
01:25:13,580 –> 01:25:17,165
that in Mountain View. What’s far more insidious to me is when

1354
01:25:17,165 –> 01:25:20,844
Mark Zuckerberg’s working on with Meta, where we’re

1355
01:25:20,844 –> 01:25:24,605
going to make the thing so good in here, you never

1356
01:25:24,605 –> 01:25:27,170
leave. That’s ready player 1. Yeah.

1357
01:25:28,590 –> 01:25:31,810
And that Tom me is far more

1358
01:25:32,750 –> 01:25:36,245
possible, And that

1359
01:25:36,245 –> 01:25:40,085
creates the dystopia that you saw in that book where everybody’s living

1360
01:25:40,085 –> 01:25:43,300
in, you know, trailers or or stack 1 on top of each other somewhere in

1361
01:25:43,300 –> 01:25:46,040
Oklahoma hooked up to these, you know, machines.

1362
01:25:48,715 –> 01:25:52,315
And that’s why I think and and that’s why I do this podcast. It’s like

1363
01:25:52,315 –> 01:25:55,995
it does and that’s why I write books that nobody reads fourth

1364
01:25:55,995 –> 01:25:59,260
very few people. And it’s why I do workshops

1365
01:25:59,480 –> 01:26:03,239
that a very small people, you know, a small number of people attend. And it’s

1366
01:26:03,239 –> 01:26:06,975
why I’ve done this book, this kind of work for the last number of

1367
01:26:06,975 –> 01:26:10,574
double digit years because it’s actually not about the number of people that I

1368
01:26:10,574 –> 01:26:14,175
impact. It’s less about that, and it’s more about the fight for

1369
01:26:14,175 –> 01:26:17,940
gatekeeping quality. And that’s a fight worth

1370
01:26:17,940 –> 01:26:21,780
having. Yeah. And I become an insurgent by gatekeeping quality. That’s

1371
01:26:21,780 –> 01:26:25,625
fascinating. Right? Right. We are doing that. It was just yeah. No.

1372
01:26:26,485 –> 01:26:29,784
When you were talking about that, it reminded me of your your notes about motivations.

1373
01:26:30,485 –> 01:26:34,185
And, you know, we only do things for 2 reasons

1374
01:26:34,380 –> 01:26:38,219
to move towards pleasure or move away from pain. Yep.

1375
01:26:38,219 –> 01:26:41,580
At the base, base, base level, that’s what it all comes down to. It’s very

1376
01:26:41,580 –> 01:26:45,395
binary. Very binary. Very binary. Pleasure. Move away

1377
01:26:45,395 –> 01:26:49,235
from pain. And that Jesan you

1378
01:26:49,235 –> 01:26:52,910
made the comments about meta, it’s like they’re they’re, yeah, that’s already kind of what

1379
01:26:52,910 –> 01:26:56,670
they do is Mhmm. It’s all designed, like, to to stimulate the

1380
01:26:56,670 –> 01:27:00,210
pleasure centers of your brain, or the or the addictive

1381
01:27:00,410 –> 01:27:04,205
writers, both, you know, so that you just you don’t wanna leave. You’ll just

1382
01:27:04,205 –> 01:27:07,965
keep scrolling forever. Right. And it’s not just Facebook. All of all

1383
01:27:07,965 –> 01:27:10,870
of them have done that because they they make their money the longer you’re on

1384
01:27:10,870 –> 01:27:14,550
the platform. Right. Exactly. Well, and the the

1385
01:27:14,550 –> 01:27:17,795
dynamic and we will go back to the counterparty crystal here in just a second.

1386
01:27:17,795 –> 01:27:21,395
That’s why I talk about bureaucracy. The dynamic of a company like

1387
01:27:21,395 –> 01:27:25,095
Meta, because it’s a giant bureaucracy, I think they have 50, 000

1388
01:27:25,235 –> 01:27:28,900
employees. Wow. Google has a 100 I think Google has a

1389
01:27:28,900 –> 01:27:32,739
190, 000 last time I heard. That’s like That’s a small

1390
01:27:32,739 –> 01:27:35,785
country. Right. That that country. Yeah. That’s a small country.

1391
01:27:36,665 –> 01:27:40,125
When you have these CEOs that are running small countries

1392
01:27:40,745 –> 01:27:44,045
that are getting $50, 000 a month,

1393
01:27:45,170 –> 01:27:48,870
They’re not incentivized to be insurgents. They’re incentivized

1394
01:27:49,250 –> 01:27:52,930
to make sure that whatever the hell is happening here keeps

1395
01:27:52,930 –> 01:27:56,485
happening. So everybody’s fat or at least moderately fat.

1396
01:27:56,705 –> 01:28:00,405
And if not happy, at least moderately happy, and

1397
01:28:00,625 –> 01:28:04,165
and keeps the machine going. Because if this machine doesn’t keep going,

1398
01:28:06,090 –> 01:28:08,989
the stockholders or Sorrells. The stockholders, the shareholders,

1399
01:28:10,170 –> 01:28:13,554
the folks who buy stock, the folks who are

1400
01:28:13,554 –> 01:28:16,915
employees, the folks who are on the board, the folks who are in the

1401
01:28:16,915 –> 01:28:20,594
audience, the folks who are the customers, all these folks will be impacted

1402
01:28:20,594 –> 01:28:24,180
in in a negative way. Whether that negative way is Tom right.

1403
01:28:24,240 –> 01:28:27,840
That’s the word. Right. Exactly. And so you’ve got a

1404
01:28:27,840 –> 01:28:31,645
bureaucratic mindset doesn’t just exist in government, although we’re gonna see this in in

1405
01:28:31,725 –> 01:28:35,325
County of Monte Cristo with, this bureaucratic we’re about to

1406
01:28:35,325 –> 01:28:39,025
introduce to the to the audience here. But we see it now

1407
01:28:39,085 –> 01:28:42,520
in corporations, and we’ve been here for a while since at least the mid

1408
01:28:42,520 –> 01:28:45,880
20th century. And I think people are starting to wake up to

1409
01:28:45,880 –> 01:28:49,535
the wake up to the game. I think COVID did a lot wake

1410
01:28:49,535 –> 01:28:53,215
wake people up to the game fourth so than probably anything

1411
01:28:53,215 –> 01:28:56,800
else that has happened in the last 100 years of

1412
01:28:56,800 –> 01:28:57,300
America.

1413
01:29:00,480 –> 01:29:03,220
Back to the count of Mike, Christelle, in just a moment.

1414
01:29:05,315 –> 01:29:08,615
We’re not gonna read all of this chapter, but it is called the interrogation.

1415
01:29:10,275 –> 01:29:13,630
And, the interrogation of Edmond

1416
01:29:13,630 –> 01:29:16,910
Dantes, because he is arrested based on this,

1417
01:29:17,230 –> 01:29:20,370
letter that, Fernand actually delivers,

1418
01:29:21,885 –> 01:29:25,725
not Danglar, interestingly enough, which is again what

1419
01:29:25,725 –> 01:29:29,239
Danglar wanted. He didn’t want his fingerprints on the

1420
01:29:29,239 –> 01:29:33,019
on the murder weapon. And so

1421
01:29:35,239 –> 01:29:36,539
the Dantes gets arrested,

1422
01:29:39,535 –> 01:29:42,915
and the person who is interrogating him,

1423
01:29:43,535 –> 01:29:46,770
is a gentleman named De Villefort, Gerard.

1424
01:29:47,469 –> 01:29:51,309
And Gerard. There we go. Yes. I think it’s a

1425
01:29:52,190 –> 01:29:56,035
there’s a buddy of mine who speaks French, and he fourth of anyway.

1426
01:29:57,455 –> 01:30:00,415
Okay. Yep. I didn’t say it book. No. No. The more important part is that

1427
01:30:00,415 –> 01:30:04,195
the double l is No. Is is not l. It’s e

1428
01:30:04,320 –> 01:30:07,840
like d 4. Yeah. V4. V4. V4. V4. V4. V

1429
01:30:08,079 –> 01:30:10,659
like a like a guy hop off the back of your throat. Yeah.

1430
01:30:12,800 –> 01:30:16,155
V4. And, he

1431
01:30:16,455 –> 01:30:20,215
is at a betrothal of his own. This is the this is the play that

1432
01:30:20,215 –> 01:30:23,590
Dumont does with and,

1433
01:30:24,369 –> 01:30:27,590
and hang on. I’m not gonna call it. And Dante’s,

1434
01:30:29,100 –> 01:30:32,725
and and he plays off this idea that both gentlemen are

1435
01:30:32,725 –> 01:30:36,405
approaching, we just mentioned this earlier, happiness. Right? They’re approaching their peak of

1436
01:30:36,405 –> 01:30:39,840
happiness, and now they have to do they have to have an unfortunate

1437
01:30:39,980 –> 01:30:42,000
engagement with each other.

1438
01:30:44,835 –> 01:30:48,595
So we’ll read selections from this chapter because it is it is a

1439
01:30:48,595 –> 01:30:51,475
long chapter, there’s a lot involved here, but there’s a couple of different ideas I

1440
01:30:51,475 –> 01:30:54,910
want to pull out from here. So we’ll start off here. Hartley

1441
01:30:54,910 –> 01:30:58,590
had left the dining room,

1442
01:30:58,590 –> 01:31:01,390
then he had put out it’s gonna get worse and worse pronunciation as I go

1443
01:31:01,390 –> 01:31:04,995
along. So just batten down the hatches.

1444
01:31:05,695 –> 01:31:09,135
Then he put off his joyful mask to take on the serious

1445
01:31:09,135 –> 01:31:12,940
meow of 1 called upon to exercise the supreme office of pronouncing on the life

1446
01:31:12,940 –> 01:31:16,460
of his fellow man. However, despite the mobility of his

1447
01:31:16,460 –> 01:31:20,205
expression, something which the deputy had studied more than once, as a skilled

1448
01:31:20,265 –> 01:31:23,465
actor does in front of his mirror, on this occasion, it was an effort for

1449
01:31:23,465 –> 01:31:27,065
him to lower his brow and darken his features. In reality, apart from the memory

1450
01:31:27,065 –> 01:31:30,650
of his father’s choice of political allegiance, which if he did not himself

1451
01:31:30,650 –> 01:31:34,170
completely renounce it might affect his own career, Gerard de

1452
01:31:34,170 –> 01:31:37,930
Vivot was at that moment as happy as it is possible for a man to

1453
01:31:37,930 –> 01:31:41,765
be. David 26, already wealthy in his own right, he held a

1454
01:31:41,765 –> 01:31:44,965
high office in the legal profession, and he was to marry a beautiful young woman

1455
01:31:44,965 –> 01:31:48,570
whom he loved, not with passion, but reasonably, as a deputy

1456
01:31:48,570 –> 01:31:52,270
crown prostitute Tom Merlot. Apart from her beauty, which was exceptional,

1457
01:31:52,570 –> 01:31:56,165
his fiancee, Mademoiselle Jesan Maron, belonged to a

1458
01:31:56,165 –> 01:31:59,765
family which was among those most highly thought of at court in this

1459
01:31:59,765 –> 01:32:03,525
time. And besides the influence of her mother and father, who having no other children,

1460
01:32:03,525 –> 01:32:06,489
preserved entirely for their son-in-law, She was,

1461
01:32:07,190 –> 01:32:10,329
in addition, bringing her husband a dowry of 50, 000

1462
01:32:10,630 –> 01:32:14,375
which, thanks to her, quote, unquote, expectations, that

1463
01:32:14,375 –> 01:32:17,895
drove forward invented by marriage brokers might 1 day be increased by a

1464
01:32:17,895 –> 01:32:21,650
legacy of half a1000000. The

1465
01:32:21,650 –> 01:32:25,490
reason I’m reading this is because, we

1466
01:32:25,490 –> 01:32:28,850
in our time married for love. Right? We don’t marry for any other

1467
01:32:28,850 –> 01:32:31,995
reasons. Anyway,

1468
01:32:33,415 –> 01:32:37,255
he’s hustling his way over to the office to

1469
01:32:37,255 –> 01:32:40,980
have a conversation. He’s waylaid a little bit by the

1470
01:32:40,980 –> 01:32:44,820
ship’s owner, a monsieur Sorrells.

1471
01:32:44,820 –> 01:32:48,495
And, well, Zijo sits down

1472
01:32:48,555 –> 01:32:52,255
once he has a con a conversation with Marel, basically indicating

1473
01:32:52,955 –> 01:32:56,600
that, he will do his duty no matter

1474
01:32:56,600 –> 01:32:57,660
what else happens,

1475
01:33:00,760 –> 01:33:04,494
and then he meets Dantes. First impressions had

1476
01:33:04,494 –> 01:33:08,175
been favorable to Dantes, but Viro had often heard it said as a

1477
01:33:08,175 –> 01:33:11,800
profound political maxim that 1 must be aware of first

1478
01:33:11,800 –> 01:33:15,639
impulses even when they were correct, and he applied this rule of impulses to

1479
01:33:15,639 –> 01:33:19,455
his impressions without taking account of the difference between the 2 Tom. So he’s

1480
01:33:19,455 –> 01:33:22,975
a bit of a midwit. He thus stifled the good

1481
01:33:22,975 –> 01:33:26,575
instinct that was attempting to invade his heart and from there to

1482
01:33:26,575 –> 01:33:30,270
attack his mind, settled his features in front of the mirror into their grandest

1483
01:33:30,330 –> 01:33:33,949
expression, and sat down, dark and threatening, behind his desk.

1484
01:33:34,570 –> 01:33:38,385
A moment later, Dantes entered. The young man was still pale but calm and smiling.

1485
01:33:38,385 –> 01:33:41,905
He greeted his judge in a simple but courteous manner and looked around for somewhere

1486
01:33:41,905 –> 01:33:45,020
to sit as though he had been in the shipowner fourth met,

1487
01:33:45,420 –> 01:33:49,020
Major Morel’s drawing room. It was only then that he met

1488
01:33:49,020 –> 01:33:52,780
Yehaw’s dull gaze book looked peculiar to men of the law who do not want

1489
01:33:52,780 –> 01:33:56,385
anyone to read thoughts and so make their eyes into unpolished glass.

1490
01:33:57,165 –> 01:34:01,005
The look reminded him that he was standing before justice, a figure

1491
01:34:01,005 –> 01:34:04,810
of grim aspect and manners. Who

1492
01:34:04,810 –> 01:34:07,850
are you and what is your name? Vilfred asked, leaving leafing through the notes that

1493
01:34:07,850 –> 01:34:11,235
the officer had given him as he came in, which in the past hour had

1494
01:34:11,235 –> 01:34:14,594
already become a voluminous pile, so quickly does the amount of reports and information build

1495
01:34:14,594 –> 01:34:18,054
up around the that unfortunate body known as detainees.

1496
01:34:19,219 –> 01:34:22,980
My name is Edmund Dantes, and the young man replied in a calm voice in

1497
01:34:22,991 –> 01:34:26,739
readers tones. I am the first mate on board the vessel Faron belonging to

1498
01:34:26,739 –> 01:34:29,995
Mayor Suarez Sorrells and Son. Your age?

1499
01:34:30,855 –> 01:34:34,555
Continued. 19. What were you doing at the time of your arrest?

1500
01:34:34,935 –> 01:34:38,400
I was celebrating my betrothal, Dante said, his voice

1501
01:34:38,400 –> 01:34:42,000
faltering slightly. So sharp was the contrast between those moments of

1502
01:34:42,000 –> 01:34:45,520
happiness and the dismal formalities in which he was now taking part and so much

1503
01:34:45,520 –> 01:34:47,515
did the bomber face of,

1504
01:34:49,655 –> 01:34:52,715
enhance the brilliance of Mercedes features.

1505
01:34:53,490 –> 01:34:57,330
You were at your betrothal feast, said the deputy, shuddering inspiring in

1506
01:34:57,330 –> 01:35:01,010
spite of himself. Yes, I’m about to marry a woman whom I have

1507
01:35:01,010 –> 01:35:04,805
loved for the past 3 years. Though

1508
01:35:04,805 –> 01:35:08,645
usually impassive, nevertheless, Villefort was struck by this coincidence, and the emotion in

1509
01:35:08,645 –> 01:35:12,469
the voice of Dante, whose happiness had been interrupted, sounded a sympathetic chord

1510
01:35:12,469 –> 01:35:16,070
with with him. He too was to be married. He too was happy, and his

1511
01:35:16,070 –> 01:35:19,449
own felicity had been disturbed so that he might help to destroy

1512
01:35:19,915 –> 01:35:23,055
that of a man who, like himself, was on the brink of happiness.

1513
01:35:24,635 –> 01:35:27,915
This philosophical analogy he thought would cause a great stir when he returned

1514
01:35:28,045 –> 01:35:31,640
Tom, Mademoiselle de Saint Morin Salon. And while

1515
01:35:31,640 –> 01:35:35,260
Dante’s waited for his next question, he was already mentally ordering the antithesis

1516
01:35:35,595 –> 01:35:39,295
around which orators construct those sentences designed to elicit applause,

1517
01:35:39,675 –> 01:35:42,975
but would sometimes produce the illusion of true eloquence.

1518
01:35:45,170 –> 01:35:48,850
They go through the interrogation. Essays him a

1519
01:35:48,850 –> 01:35:52,530
bunch of questions and then takes the letter from his

1520
01:35:52,530 –> 01:35:56,375
pocket. That is the letter that Denglars

1521
01:35:56,515 –> 01:36:00,275
wrote and offered it to Dantes who

1522
01:36:00,275 –> 01:36:03,520
examined it. His face clouded, and he said, this is a little bit later in

1523
01:36:03,520 –> 01:36:06,720
the chapter, Sorrells, I do not know this handwriting. It is disguised, yet it has

1524
01:36:06,720 –> 01:36:10,500
an appearance of sincerity. In any case, the writing is that of an educated hand.

1525
01:36:11,135 –> 01:36:14,655
He looked at the whole with such gratitude. I’m happy to find myself dealing with

1526
01:36:14,655 –> 01:36:17,555
a man such as you because my rival is indeed a true enemy.

1527
01:36:18,740 –> 01:36:22,300
Fourth the flash that passed through the young man’s eyes as he spoke those words,

1528
01:36:22,440 –> 01:36:26,200
D’Arroy was able to perceive how much violent energy was hidden beneath his mild

1529
01:36:26,200 –> 01:36:29,965
exterior. Come then, said the deputy prosecutor, answer my questions

1530
01:36:29,965 –> 01:36:33,244
honestly, not as an accused man Tom his judge, but as 1 wrongly accused might

1531
01:36:33,244 –> 01:36:36,340
answer another who has his interests at heart. How much truth is there in this

1532
01:36:36,340 –> 01:36:40,025
anonymous accusation? And through the letter, which Dante

1533
01:36:40,025 –> 01:36:43,140
essays just given back to him onto the desk in a gesture with a gesture

1534
01:36:43,140 –> 01:36:46,965
of distaste. Now that’s the

1535
01:36:46,965 –> 01:36:50,585
letter or the the cover of the leaders. And,

1536
01:36:51,125 –> 01:36:54,929
well Then there’s a letter that Dante

1537
01:36:56,849 –> 01:36:59,829
Yeah. Go ahead. Oh, was

1538
01:37:00,554 –> 01:37:03,915
given by the captain to deliver in

1539
01:37:03,915 –> 01:37:07,594
Paris. Yes. And this is where, you know, if, you know,

1540
01:37:07,594 –> 01:37:11,440
you’re asking about the bureaucracy and I think ville fourth really does use

1541
01:37:11,440 –> 01:37:14,900
the bureaucracy to his advantage here, obviously.

1542
01:37:15,185 –> 01:37:18,785
Oh, yeah. But it’s still a matter of self interest. So sorry fourth

1543
01:37:18,785 –> 01:37:22,545
those of you who’ve not read Count of Monte Cristo, Fourth, the

1544
01:37:22,545 –> 01:37:25,849
letter is addressed to Noirtier,

1545
01:37:26,469 –> 01:37:29,989
who is Villefort’s father. Father. That’s right. Noirtier is a

1546
01:37:29,989 –> 01:37:33,784
Bonaparte supporter, and Villefort is working

1547
01:37:33,784 –> 01:37:37,485
very hard to disassociate himself with his father’s

1548
01:37:37,625 –> 01:37:41,390
political leanings. And so

1549
01:37:41,390 –> 01:37:44,850
I think 1 of the writers, Fourth just straight up meets the king.

1550
01:37:44,990 –> 01:37:48,520
Yep. So Yep. He’s he’s working real hard to

1551
01:37:48,520 –> 01:37:52,245
establish himself with, the the new monarchy

1552
01:37:52,385 –> 01:37:55,985
or the old reestablished monarchy, whatever. And

1553
01:37:55,985 –> 01:37:59,125
so Edmond Dantes now presents a threat

1554
01:37:59,810 –> 01:38:02,470
to all of Fourth hard work.

1555
01:38:03,650 –> 01:38:06,390
And instead of being a cool guy,

1556
01:38:08,425 –> 01:38:11,945
he just screws Edmond

1557
01:38:11,945 –> 01:38:15,070
Dentas over. And he’s like, you can go just

1558
01:38:15,389 –> 01:38:19,010
disappear in prison because that will save my reputation

1559
01:38:19,230 –> 01:38:22,050
and all of my hard work. Now

1560
01:38:22,989 –> 01:38:24,610
why was Napoleon a problem?

1561
01:38:27,745 –> 01:38:31,505
I mean For those of

1562
01:38:31,505 –> 01:38:35,070
us who don’t know, why was Napoleon a problem? Why was that guy a

1563
01:38:35,530 –> 01:38:38,490
little bit of a challenge for folks in Europe at that time? I feel like

1564
01:38:38,490 –> 01:38:42,105
you could probably answer it, better than I could.

1565
01:38:43,605 –> 01:38:46,825
The other, like, side note, the other

1566
01:38:47,650 –> 01:38:51,409
books that I’ve been reading are it’s called the Temeraire novels by Naomi

1567
01:38:51,409 –> 01:38:54,929
Novik. They’re also set in the Napoleon era, but it’s

1568
01:38:54,929 –> 01:38:58,335
fantasy. It’s historical fantasy. It’s a lot of fun, but it’s just interesting. We’re like,

1569
01:38:58,335 –> 01:39:01,375
oh, I forgot this was set during the Napoleon era. I was like, dang. Okay.

1570
01:39:01,375 –> 01:39:05,135
Just Napoleon everywhere. Well and so Napoleon was you’re

1571
01:39:05,135 –> 01:39:08,889
right. I can answer this question. You’re correct. So, Napoleon, you’re exactly correct. Be

1572
01:39:08,889 –> 01:39:12,269
like Well vague memories of my history lessons. Yeah.

1573
01:39:13,345 –> 01:39:16,585
So this was this novel or or the Count of Monte Cristo events of Count

1574
01:39:16,585 –> 01:39:20,145
of Monte Cristo occur at a time when Napoleon is

1575
01:39:20,145 –> 01:39:23,990
either yes. He’s at his first exile to Elba. Yes. And

1576
01:39:24,450 –> 01:39:28,070
so the the folks on the yeah. The monarchists on the continent,

1577
01:39:29,170 –> 01:39:32,574
specifically in France, don’t know if he’s going to

1578
01:39:32,574 –> 01:39:36,335
mount a return, which he would actually mount a

1579
01:39:36,335 –> 01:39:40,090
return. And then there would be a 100 days where he would rampage

1580
01:39:40,090 –> 01:39:43,230
across Europe, and then he would be put back in a box and

1581
01:39:43,770 –> 01:39:47,530
shipped off as far away as they could possibly manage to ship him

1582
01:39:47,530 –> 01:39:51,055
off because I don’t I actually am not I’m really curious as to why they

1583
01:39:51,055 –> 01:39:54,355
didn’t send him to, like, North America. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Point is,

1584
01:39:54,975 –> 01:39:58,390
they were gonna put him in a box and send him away. Right? And

1585
01:39:59,570 –> 01:40:03,010
that gap, between, you know, him being

1586
01:40:03,010 –> 01:40:06,390
defeated, at the battle of Waterloo and then being exiled,

1587
01:40:07,895 –> 01:40:11,575
and then coming back, that that gap of time. There’s a lot of

1588
01:40:11,575 –> 01:40:15,300
turmoil in France, particularly around Paris. You see that in

1589
01:40:15,300 –> 01:40:18,340
the chapter where he goes and where Viofael goes and sees runs off and goes

1590
01:40:18,340 –> 01:40:21,720
and sees the king to your point. And at that point, everybody’s

1591
01:40:21,940 –> 01:40:25,545
trying to make their own separate deals.

1592
01:40:26,085 –> 01:40:29,685
Everybody’s trying to appeal to the king or or not the king, at least, the

1593
01:40:29,685 –> 01:40:33,380
monarch. Sure their place. Correct. Abundel. That’s

1594
01:40:33,380 –> 01:40:37,220
right. There’s a lot of, what we call Tom modern terms

1595
01:40:37,220 –> 01:40:40,440
jostling Right. For political position.

1596
01:40:40,660 –> 01:40:43,614
And Don Tedz is the classic guy.

1597
01:40:44,235 –> 01:40:48,075
He’s the the term that we use nowadays, particularly on Substack and other

1598
01:40:48,075 –> 01:40:51,030
places is normie. He’s a normie.

1599
01:40:51,889 –> 01:40:55,730
He does I was gonna essays, but that’s usually for women. The is for women.

1600
01:40:55,730 –> 01:40:59,250
Normie is for dudes. Yeah. He’s he’s he’s

1601
01:40:59,250 –> 01:41:02,844
he’s he’s your average video game playing dude who just wants to get married and

1602
01:41:02,844 –> 01:41:06,525
go back to work. He doesn’t know who Joe Biden is. He

1603
01:41:06,525 –> 01:41:10,360
doesn’t have an opinion about Donald Trump. Didn’t even know who his own mayor is.

1604
01:41:10,500 –> 01:41:13,940
He’s just he’s There you go. Right. I just wanna just wanna hang out and

1605
01:41:13,940 –> 01:41:17,725
go, I don’t know, all in good work. And he’s party, girl. Right.

1606
01:41:17,725 –> 01:41:21,485
I just wanna marry the pay the bills. Girl, pay the bills. He got promoted

1607
01:41:21,485 –> 01:41:25,245
early. Right. I’m 19. I got a promotion. Why? I don’t wanna die fat

1608
01:41:25,245 –> 01:41:27,580
and old. And by the way, I’ll be fat and old if I’m lucky by

1609
01:41:27,580 –> 01:41:30,400
the time I’m 30. Come on. Right.

1610
01:41:34,165 –> 01:41:36,804
He’s he he’s almost a man with no

1611
01:41:39,205 –> 01:41:42,105
I won’t say no motivation. He’s almost a man with no

1612
01:41:43,420 –> 01:41:47,260
no. I’ll frame it this way. Dumont has created the author, Alexandre Dumont,

1613
01:41:47,260 –> 01:41:50,700
created a character upon whom he could paint

1614
01:41:50,880 –> 01:41:54,635
turning, and he painted this revenge

1615
01:41:54,635 –> 01:41:56,575
story on on Dantes,

1616
01:41:58,635 –> 01:42:02,460
because of the situation that he was surrounded. And so I think

1617
01:42:02,460 –> 01:42:06,239
there’s a warning actually in here for all of the normies.

1618
01:42:07,635 –> 01:42:11,235
And the warning is and this is where bureaucratic self interest comes in, and

1619
01:42:11,235 –> 01:42:14,995
it’s discontent. If the bureaucrat decides that it’s

1620
01:42:14,995 –> 01:42:17,950
self serving to reach down and get you

1621
01:42:18,810 –> 01:42:22,090
and by the way, you’re you’re done. I mean, you see this in in in

1622
01:42:22,090 –> 01:42:24,990
in night by Eli Weisel. We covered,

1623
01:42:26,415 –> 01:42:30,095
we covered, the, the Gulag Archipelago last year by Alexander

1624
01:42:30,095 –> 01:42:33,315
Soljacidsson. Like, if you’re engaged

1625
01:42:33,770 –> 01:42:37,530
in just living out your life, the system, and we talk a lot about

1626
01:42:37,530 –> 01:42:41,130
this today in our culture, the system will find a way to get you if

1627
01:42:41,130 –> 01:42:44,895
the system wants you. Oh, that feels that reminds this kind

1628
01:42:44,895 –> 01:42:48,574
of weird example, but I play a lot of board games. And I my favorite

1629
01:42:48,574 –> 01:42:50,980
board games are the ones where I can just sit on my side of the

1630
01:42:50,980 –> 01:42:54,580
board and do my thing and, you know, I’m like, oh, cool. I’m getting my

1631
01:42:54,580 –> 01:42:57,620
points. Blah blah blah. And as soon as somebody comes over to fuck with me,

1632
01:42:57,620 –> 01:43:01,145
I’m like, leave me alone. Why are you

1633
01:43:01,145 –> 01:43:04,985
bothering me? I’m just happy over here. And it’s like, well, it’s because it’s

1634
01:43:04,985 –> 01:43:08,570
part of the game. Right. It it is. But that happens in life. That happens

1635
01:43:08,570 –> 01:43:12,409
in life. It’s all part of the game. 1 of my favorite shows on

1636
01:43:12,409 –> 01:43:15,530
HBO over the last 25 years, was,

1637
01:43:16,195 –> 01:43:18,835
and it’s not on anymore, but I recommend everybody watch it. You can find it

1638
01:43:18,835 –> 01:43:22,435
on HBO Max, the app. The Wire. You should watch

1639
01:43:22,435 –> 01:43:26,050
all 3 seasons of The Wire. Talk about brilliant writing that hangs together.

1640
01:43:26,270 –> 01:43:30,030
It’s genius. It takes the Coppin Readers or Coppin

1641
01:43:30,030 –> 01:43:33,675
versus drug dealers fourth of trope, puts it in Baltimore, and it takes Tom its

1642
01:43:33,675 –> 01:43:36,735
next level. And the writing is so clean and clear and amazing.

1643
01:43:37,515 –> 01:43:41,355
And there’s a character in there who robs other drug dealers named

1644
01:43:41,355 –> 01:43:45,050
Omar. Okay. And, that’s how he makes

1645
01:43:45,050 –> 01:43:47,849
his living. He walks out down the street with a shotgun and a big black

1646
01:43:47,849 –> 01:43:51,495
trench coat, and all the drug dealers on the corners know, and they scream

1647
01:43:51,495 –> 01:43:55,015
out, Omar’s coming, and they they scatter. He

1648
01:43:55,015 –> 01:43:58,740
robs drug dealers. And so in

1649
01:43:58,740 –> 01:44:02,500
the course of the series, eventually, the prosecution who wants to prosecute

1650
01:44:02,500 –> 01:44:05,995
these drug readers, calls him as a witness. Now he’s doing it self

1651
01:44:05,995 –> 01:44:09,515
servingly because he wants to get revenge on some people who who hurt

1652
01:44:09,515 –> 01:44:12,795
him and hurt some people close to him. But,

1653
01:44:13,355 –> 01:44:16,950
the prosecution is fine with using him to accomplish their own means because they work

1654
01:44:16,950 –> 01:44:20,470
for the state. The bureaucracy again. And this little

1655
01:44:20,470 –> 01:44:24,175
bureaucratic lawyer is questioning, this

1656
01:44:24,175 –> 01:44:27,935
this Omar, and and

1657
01:44:27,935 –> 01:44:31,390
he asked and there’s a sequence view of this. It goes to season 4

1658
01:44:31,390 –> 01:44:34,610
or 5 of the wire where he basically asks,

1659
01:44:34,990 –> 01:44:38,830
Omar, you know, I you seal with you you rob drug

1660
01:44:38,830 –> 01:44:42,445
dealers. Why should we believe anything that you that you say

1661
01:44:42,445 –> 01:44:46,125
here? You you take a shotgun and you rob people. And he

1662
01:44:46,125 –> 01:44:49,345
goes and Omar says, you do the same thing just with a suitcase.

1663
01:44:50,430 –> 01:44:54,030
And it turns it on that bureaucratic lawyer, and leaders like his mouth

1664
01:44:54,030 –> 01:44:57,630
drops open because he has nothing to say. And everybody in the court

1665
01:44:57,630 –> 01:45:00,865
laughs, and then Omar owns it. And

1666
01:45:01,805 –> 01:45:05,505
then a couple more beats go by, and,

1667
01:45:05,805 –> 01:45:09,469
you know, the prosecutor asks him after he pulls

1668
01:45:09,469 –> 01:45:13,150
himself back together, and he asks him, you know, how has this man like

1669
01:45:13,150 –> 01:45:16,815
this has survived this long? Either you have survived this long because if

1670
01:45:16,815 –> 01:45:19,395
you’re robbing drug dealers, your life expectancy is

1671
01:45:20,335 –> 01:45:24,094
minimal at best. And so he says, well, you know, it’s all in

1672
01:45:24,094 –> 01:45:27,800
the game. You either play or you get played. That’s

1673
01:45:27,800 –> 01:45:30,940
how it goes. And

1674
01:45:31,400 –> 01:45:35,005
this is the thing I think in life

1675
01:45:35,245 –> 01:45:38,764
that normal people miss. They don’t

1676
01:45:38,764 –> 01:45:42,560
realize the games they are in, or they

1677
01:45:42,560 –> 01:45:46,320
think the games they’re playing don’t have any long term consequences. Like,

1678
01:45:46,320 –> 01:45:49,975
they can’t they can’t project those out. Yeah. And so, yes, it most

1679
01:45:49,975 –> 01:45:52,935
normal people play life like that board game. Like, when like, where you play board

1680
01:45:52,935 –> 01:45:55,815
games. They just wanna be left in a normal corner and leave me alone. And

1681
01:45:55,815 –> 01:45:58,690
if you come over here and mess with me my city. I don’t know. Build

1682
01:45:58,690 –> 01:46:02,530
my city. And and you’re not allowed to

1683
01:46:02,530 –> 01:46:06,355
be left alone because the bureaucrats want

1684
01:46:06,355 –> 01:46:09,575
to come over and mess with you. Knock over your sand castle.

1685
01:46:10,115 –> 01:46:13,795
That’s what I mean. And they’re doing it, and this is the

1686
01:46:13,795 –> 01:46:17,380
counterpoint I always think of. They’re doing it for duty, like the

1687
01:46:17,437 –> 01:46:20,840
fourth you know, they’re doing it for duty, or they’re doing it for

1688
01:46:20,900 –> 01:46:24,585
other self serving reasons, or they’re doing it to they’re doing it to win

1689
01:46:24,585 –> 01:46:28,344
their own game that they’re in. And you don’t know the rules of their game

1690
01:46:28,905 –> 01:46:32,120
Mhmm. But because they’ve been set in position and

1691
01:46:32,520 –> 01:46:36,280
hierarchy over you, they know your game. And if

1692
01:46:36,280 –> 01:46:40,040
there’s 1 thing I would recommend for leaders who are who think of themselves as

1693
01:46:40,040 –> 01:46:43,465
being quote, unquote Sorrells or, I would rec fourth

1694
01:46:43,465 –> 01:46:45,245
naive. I would recommend

1695
01:46:47,705 –> 01:46:50,680
that it might be a good idea to learn what kind of games other people

1696
01:46:50,680 –> 01:46:52,140
are playing on other boards.

1697
01:46:54,440 –> 01:46:57,420
Might be a really good idea to learn those games. Write this down.

1698
01:46:59,325 –> 01:47:01,885
Well, you’re gonna see it you’re gonna see it in the in the music store

1699
01:47:01,885 –> 01:47:05,485
that you I already have. Yeah. Like, that’s that’s a totally different

1700
01:47:05,485 –> 01:47:08,940
game. Yeah. You know? And you I mean, I’m and you’ve got a

1701
01:47:09,260 –> 01:47:12,220
I’m presume you’ve got Actually, I know 1 of the games. You know what I

1702
01:47:12,459 –> 01:47:14,320
book? Because I was I was.

1703
01:47:16,165 –> 01:47:19,525
But there’s so many other games that then open up. Right? Because, you

1704
01:47:19,525 –> 01:47:23,349
know, like, there’s the there’s the you’re in California. I

1705
01:47:23,349 –> 01:47:26,409
won’t say where, but you’re in California. So, like, you got the inspection game.

1706
01:47:27,110 –> 01:47:30,784
The bureaucrats and the regulators that show up and wanna wanna produce

1707
01:47:30,784 –> 01:47:34,145
literally nothing but paper. That’s literally the job just to produce paper. Not to provide

1708
01:47:34,145 –> 01:47:37,844
value, just produce paper so they can keep getting, keep getting a job.

1709
01:47:38,070 –> 01:47:40,550
And if you irritate any of those people, they won’t give you a piece of

1710
01:47:40,550 –> 01:47:43,990
paper that you need in order to run this business Mhmm. Which

1711
01:47:43,990 –> 01:47:47,615
is brutal and vicious. But that’s only 1

1712
01:47:47,615 –> 01:47:51,375
game. Then you’ve got, like, the tax California taxing authority game, which is

1713
01:47:51,375 –> 01:47:54,895
totally different game. And then you’ve got the IRS game, which

1714
01:47:54,895 –> 01:47:58,610
is a totally different game. And then and then you’ve got,

1715
01:47:58,610 –> 01:48:01,890
like, the game of actually going to your customers. Your customers don’t care about any

1716
01:48:01,890 –> 01:48:04,735
of those other games you’re playing. Nope. And then you’ve got your employees who are

1717
01:48:04,735 –> 01:48:07,475
totally different game, and they don’t care about any of those other games you’re playing.

1718
01:48:07,614 –> 01:48:11,054
And this is the challenge of entrepreneurship, but it’s also the challenge of

1719
01:48:11,295 –> 01:48:14,750
Leadership. Of leadership. Yeah. III have

1720
01:48:14,909 –> 01:48:18,590
like, my friend group in general just doesn’t they’re

1721
01:48:18,590 –> 01:48:22,054
like, do CEOs deserve how much they get paid? And

1722
01:48:22,054 –> 01:48:25,114
sometimes I’m like Yes. Yeah.

1723
01:48:25,895 –> 01:48:29,650
Yeah. I Jesan, you Yeah. Like, like, we can argue about the ethics of,

1724
01:48:29,650 –> 01:48:32,690
like, the how much their raises have gone up and how much their workers are

1725
01:48:32,770 –> 01:48:36,390
like, yeah. The CEOs can’t do their thing if they don’t have their workers

1726
01:48:36,845 –> 01:48:40,145
in the beehive making the thing. But, like, like,

1727
01:48:41,645 –> 01:48:44,625
they’re they’re thinking about so much.

1728
01:48:46,040 –> 01:48:49,420
Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. They deserve to make a lot of money,

1729
01:48:50,040 –> 01:48:53,485
a lot of money because nobody else wants to do that.

1730
01:48:53,725 –> 01:48:57,425
They deserve it unless you’re like the Boeing’s I was the LS.

1731
01:48:58,125 –> 01:49:01,850
And if you’re the CEO of Boeing where the

1732
01:49:01,850 –> 01:49:05,530
door falls off your plane in the middle of the

1733
01:49:05,530 –> 01:49:09,370
air, right, you’ve gotta be the 1st leader that falls

1734
01:49:09,370 –> 01:49:13,075
on the grenade This. When the screw up happens. That’s and I

1735
01:49:13,075 –> 01:49:16,835
think that’s the big issue is ours like, well, I don’t know. I was about

1736
01:49:16,835 –> 01:49:20,670
to say a, like, a blanket statement, but I think

1737
01:49:20,670 –> 01:49:24,210
something that people are not seeing Mhmm. In CEO

1738
01:49:24,270 –> 01:49:27,985
leadership is that Yeah. They’re not willing to

1739
01:49:27,985 –> 01:49:31,505
fall on the grenade for their companies. They’re not willing to it’s just a

1740
01:49:31,505 –> 01:49:35,030
paycheck. It’s all very, like, mercenary.

1741
01:49:35,650 –> 01:49:39,490
Transactional. Yeah. And so the, like,

1742
01:49:39,490 –> 01:49:43,270
the passion, the the the, what are those little

1743
01:49:43,535 –> 01:49:47,375
Vision or whatever. Right? The buy in of the the company’s mission. It’s

1744
01:49:47,375 –> 01:49:51,135
not actually there. Don’t actually care. Well, when you see the source a lot

1745
01:49:51,135 –> 01:49:54,490
of the big, big ones. Right? I think there are some smaller still

1746
01:49:54,490 –> 01:49:58,030
maybe, like, lots of revenue, but smaller,

1747
01:49:59,050 –> 01:50:02,465
companies where the CEO is, like, they’ll take the

1748
01:50:02,465 –> 01:50:06,304
hit. 1 of the CEOs that I hear about occasionally

1749
01:50:06,304 –> 01:50:09,744
is, like, the CEO of Costco Tom, like, how little he makes and how much,

1750
01:50:09,744 –> 01:50:13,570
like, he does to to really build that company and

1751
01:50:13,570 –> 01:50:16,930
make sure it’s it’s good for their workers too. And it’s just like, damn. That’s

1752
01:50:16,930 –> 01:50:20,310
that’s how it’s done. Well, it’s really interesting. So if you ever have an opportunity

1753
01:50:20,665 –> 01:50:24,185
to in the local area you’re in, if you ever have opportunity to go to,

1754
01:50:24,185 –> 01:50:27,945
like, a small business mixer with other small business

1755
01:50:27,945 –> 01:50:29,725
leaders who are leading their businesses,

1756
01:50:31,470 –> 01:50:35,230
It’s interesting because you see this at a micro level Mhmm. Versus

1757
01:50:35,230 –> 01:50:37,870
seeing it at a mac or sorry. You see it at a macro versus the

1758
01:50:37,870 –> 01:50:41,435
micro level. But what you see is when you wind up fourth what you

1759
01:50:41,435 –> 01:50:43,995
experience when you wind up talking to books, and I’ve been to a lot of

1760
01:50:43,995 –> 01:50:47,195
those those mixers and summits and conferences and things like that in my

1761
01:50:47,316 –> 01:50:50,950
Tom, in running, like, the 3 or 4 businesses that I’ve

1762
01:50:50,950 –> 01:50:54,550
run. It’s you you you wind up in a

1763
01:50:54,550 –> 01:50:58,085
space where you look at what that person’s doing

1764
01:50:58,385 –> 01:51:02,065
and leading in that particular way even if it’s parallel to you. And

1765
01:51:02,065 –> 01:51:05,480
the first thing you think is, well, that’s fine for that person. I would never

1766
01:51:05,480 –> 01:51:07,020
do that, and you walk away.

1767
01:51:09,719 –> 01:51:12,060
Because you’re like, I I can’t I can’t

1768
01:51:14,095 –> 01:51:17,455
I can’t sit here and critique you because I know how

1769
01:51:17,455 –> 01:51:21,295
hard what you’re doing is, and you know how hard what I’m doing

1770
01:51:21,295 –> 01:51:24,950
is. Yeah. So there’s actually no critique here. It’s just you

1771
01:51:24,950 –> 01:51:28,710
found a different solution than the solution that I found. So

1772
01:51:28,710 –> 01:51:32,475
if you’re at a It’s like parenting. Right. Exactly.

1773
01:51:32,855 –> 01:51:36,295
Right. Now Yes. Now 1 of the things that I push on very often, just

1774
01:51:36,295 –> 01:51:39,950
like in parenting, is there has to be a standard at some level. Like,

1775
01:51:39,950 –> 01:51:43,490
we have to say that there’s a baseline of ethics

1776
01:51:43,710 –> 01:51:46,670
or a baseline of whatever. Right? And we see this in the count of Monte

1777
01:51:46,670 –> 01:51:50,355
Cristo. There has to be a baseline of some behavior here that we all

1778
01:51:50,355 –> 01:51:54,195
socially agree on. But then after we get past the baseline

1779
01:51:55,315 –> 01:51:58,500
and by the way, my my big problem is the baseline is is being and

1780
01:51:58,500 –> 01:52:02,180
has been destroyed. That’s my big Yep. Yeah. But We’ve been working on

1781
01:52:02,180 –> 01:52:05,800
disintegrating that, and now it’s just crumbled. It’s just like we have movement.

1782
01:52:06,085 –> 01:52:09,844
Right. We’ve deconstructed it out of existence. Yeah. That doesn’t work though because now

1783
01:52:09,844 –> 01:52:13,685
you’re just floating around. And if you’re just floating around, whether

1784
01:52:13,685 –> 01:52:17,510
you’re a corporate, whether you’re a big public company, like a Boeing or a

1785
01:52:17,510 –> 01:52:21,050
META, which we’ve mentioned, or any of Musk’s companies, big public companies,

1786
01:52:21,675 –> 01:52:25,515
or you’re a small business, there’s no baseline standard that unites

1787
01:52:25,515 –> 01:52:29,035
you. And so anyone can do anything anywhere. And you’re at that

1788
01:52:29,035 –> 01:52:32,700
mixer. You’re listening to this person talk, or you’re you’re you’re

1789
01:52:32,700 –> 01:52:36,460
having a can of hay fourth whatever, some order that you didn’t wanna

1790
01:52:36,460 –> 01:52:40,205
eat. And you’re going, I would never do that that way, but

1791
01:52:40,205 –> 01:52:43,885
you’re still hamstrung in that sense of not being able to

1792
01:52:43,885 –> 01:52:47,710
critique that person because guess what? If you do, they’re gonna start

1793
01:52:47,710 –> 01:52:51,550
poking on you. And this is where we get

1794
01:52:51,550 –> 01:52:55,230
to the idea that it doesn’t matter what you’re doing. It only matters

1795
01:52:55,230 –> 01:52:58,925
the result because the result is the thing that can never be

1796
01:52:58,925 –> 01:53:02,445
argued against. And so if the result

1797
01:53:02,445 –> 01:53:06,080
is, well, I gave all of my employees $50,

1798
01:53:06,080 –> 01:53:09,670
000 bonuses last year and you gave none of your employees any and you’re

1799
01:53:09,670 –> 01:53:11,930
almost a debt, then you go, well,

1800
01:53:14,125 –> 01:53:17,805
you win the day. Congratulations. You won. Yeah. I

1801
01:53:17,805 –> 01:53:21,630
guess you won. And and this is this is the

1802
01:53:21,630 –> 01:53:24,530
thing I think we’re struggling with in the United States right now. Yeah.

1803
01:53:28,645 –> 01:53:32,025
Chaos. Can I ask you a question about chaos here as we round the corner?

1804
01:53:34,885 –> 01:53:38,700
Because in a chaotic time, like in the count of Monte

1805
01:53:38,700 –> 01:53:42,460
Cristo, where, like, no 1 knows

1806
01:53:42,460 –> 01:53:45,395
what’s turning. And and we are in a weird this has been 1 of the

1807
01:53:45,555 –> 01:53:48,675
the 1 of the things on this podcast this year is that we’re in a

1808
01:53:48,675 –> 01:53:51,955
moment. I think we’re at the end of chaos. I think we’re at the back

1809
01:53:51,955 –> 01:53:55,380
end of chaos. Oh, I hope so. Oh, and the reason why I say this

1810
01:53:55,380 –> 01:53:58,920
is because usually chaos comes in 20 year cycles.

1811
01:53:59,699 –> 01:54:02,920
We’ve been in a 20 to 25 year cycle of chaos since 2, 001.

1812
01:54:04,815 –> 01:54:08,495
Next year will be 25 years of pay 24 years, 25 years of chaos.

1813
01:54:08,495 –> 01:54:11,855
We’re almost done. We’re almost out the other side. Now usually in the back end

1814
01:54:11,855 –> 01:54:15,280
of chaos, there’s a last sort of explosion of

1815
01:54:15,280 –> 01:54:19,119
nonsense, which may happen, you know, internationally, may

1816
01:54:19,119 –> 01:54:22,875
happen internally, may happen in November, whatever. Right? There’s a

1817
01:54:22,875 –> 01:54:26,235
last but then usually, that’s the last thing. It’s like a rat that’s trapped and

1818
01:54:26,235 –> 01:54:29,855
makes it podcast, like, lunge, and then it’s done. Right? Yeah.

1819
01:54:30,060 –> 01:54:33,100
So we we’re not in the last lunge moment, but the last lunge moment is

1820
01:54:33,100 –> 01:54:36,940
coming. And then what’s on the other and and this podcast this year has been

1821
01:54:36,940 –> 01:54:40,585
consumed with what’s on the other side of that last bunch.

1822
01:54:40,585 –> 01:54:44,345
Because I’m less interested in the last lunge of chaos, and I’m more

1823
01:54:44,345 –> 01:54:48,025
interested in what happens when, okay, now we’re done with

1824
01:54:48,025 –> 01:54:51,810
that. That’s so interesting. And now we’re gonna do something else.

1825
01:54:51,810 –> 01:54:53,989
When you were talking about,

1826
01:54:56,105 –> 01:54:58,985
I am sorry. I can’t even remember what you’re talking about, but chaos was the

1827
01:54:58,985 –> 01:55:02,745
the 1. Chaos. Fourth examples of chaos. Yeah. 1 of the things that

1828
01:55:02,745 –> 01:55:06,469
started kind of playing in my head was that montage in, v for

1829
01:55:06,469 –> 01:55:10,230
Vendetta, if you’ve seen it. When

1830
01:55:10,309 –> 01:55:14,055
like, it’s like right after V has sent out all of the masks. Mhmm. Yep.

1831
01:55:14,055 –> 01:55:17,495
And there’s that that just that montage of chaos in the UK. I mean, it’s

1832
01:55:17,495 –> 01:55:20,055
just even but the anarchy in the UK and the guy shoots the gun in

1833
01:55:20,055 –> 01:55:23,730
the air. And that’s what it reminded me of. But then your your

1834
01:55:23,730 –> 01:55:27,570
point just now is, like, what comes after that? Because that’s where the movie ends.

1835
01:55:27,570 –> 01:55:31,175
They’re just like, we blew up parliament. The the good

1836
01:55:31,175 –> 01:55:34,615
guys won. And we’re like, what happens

1837
01:55:34,615 –> 01:55:37,680
next? It’s like Right. And how do we rule? Right.

1838
01:55:37,980 –> 01:55:41,820
Yeah. Nobody thought about that. The 1 guy that might have

1839
01:55:41,820 –> 01:55:43,520
thought about it is now dead.

1840
01:55:45,895 –> 01:55:49,675
Well, this is this is my problem with revolutionary movements because sometimes

1841
01:55:50,615 –> 01:55:52,555
sometimes the dog catches the car.

1842
01:55:54,620 –> 01:55:58,219
So I already mentioned I mean, before we started the the podcast, I

1843
01:55:58,219 –> 01:56:00,960
mentioned Joker in a different kind of context in the dark night.

1844
01:56:02,555 –> 01:56:06,335
And my challenge with many revolutionary movies, I don’t care whether they’re Marxist

1845
01:56:06,395 –> 01:56:10,130
from the left or whether they’re, you know, Proud

1846
01:56:10,130 –> 01:56:13,670
Boys or the Patriot Front or whoever from the right. I don’t care.

1847
01:56:14,610 –> 01:56:18,290
Political political revolutionary movements, social revolutionary movements, cultural

1848
01:56:18,290 –> 01:56:21,755
revolutionary movements, deconstruction, which is a philosophy

1849
01:56:21,895 –> 01:56:24,795
from Merida, you know, all of this stuff.

1850
01:56:27,239 –> 01:56:31,079
What happens I always ask the the diversity, equity, and inclusion people, what

1851
01:56:31,079 –> 01:56:34,519
happens after you have a diverse equity or equitable and inclusive

1852
01:56:34,519 –> 01:56:37,845
world? And, of course, the response to that always is, well, Jesan will never get

1853
01:56:37,845 –> 01:56:41,045
there. Oh, okay. So what you’re telling me, you’re gonna have never ending chaos and

1854
01:56:41,045 –> 01:56:44,770
never ending revolution? And by the way, when you say that

1855
01:56:44,770 –> 01:56:48,610
conclusion, everybody walks away. And the reason why

1856
01:56:48,610 –> 01:56:50,789
everybody walks away and has nothing to say is because

1857
01:56:52,115 –> 01:56:55,955
the thing that destroys a in a revolution is not the same

1858
01:56:55,955 –> 01:56:59,715
thing as the thing that builds. No. And it’s time I

1859
01:56:59,715 –> 01:57:03,130
I will say this. I personally have had enough of

1860
01:57:03,130 –> 01:57:06,110
destruction, and it is time for building.

1861
01:57:06,570 –> 01:57:10,270
Yeah. I’ve had enough of destruction. So

1862
01:57:10,815 –> 01:57:14,494
are there going to be destruction. Or deconstruction or whatever fancy term? We’ve

1863
01:57:14,494 –> 01:57:18,175
been deconstructing since 2 planes flew into the towers in the World Trade Center in

1864
01:57:18,175 –> 01:57:21,920
2, 001. We’ve been deconstructing ever since then. We’ve had 25

1865
01:57:21,920 –> 01:57:25,620
years of deconstruction. Stop deconstructing.

1866
01:57:26,080 –> 01:57:29,760
What do we build? Constructing. Right. The thought that came to

1867
01:57:29,760 –> 01:57:33,435
me was that the answer to your question is

1868
01:57:33,435 –> 01:57:37,115
like, well, we don’t know what we want, but it’s not that. Right. We spend

1869
01:57:37,115 –> 01:57:40,830
so much time criticizing the thing that is that

1870
01:57:40,830 –> 01:57:44,510
we know we don’t want that we’re

1871
01:57:44,510 –> 01:57:47,870
not we’re not spending any energy or time on, like, what would we do

1872
01:57:47,870 –> 01:57:51,625
instead? Okay. So we were talking about Disney, and we were

1873
01:57:51,625 –> 01:57:54,845
talking about the writing on Tom Wars a little bit before we started this podcast.

1874
01:57:55,465 –> 01:57:59,230
You write, you’re writing a, you know, a, fictional science

1875
01:57:59,230 –> 01:58:03,070
fiction trilogy, putting that out into the world. That’s so this

1876
01:58:03,070 –> 01:58:06,845
is our last question as we round the fourth, literature, as we come

1877
01:58:06,845 –> 01:58:10,465
around and bring it around. What are we going

1878
01:58:10,845 –> 01:58:14,600
to build in the future? Because DuMont

1879
01:58:14,600 –> 01:58:18,440
in the count of Monte Cristo, he’s building something for the future. He’s building a

1880
01:58:18,520 –> 01:58:22,185
Yeah. Right? He’s building something that other people will be able to he wasn’t

1881
01:58:22,185 –> 01:58:26,025
deconstruct well, no. He wasn’t deconstructing trucks. He was building trucks.

1882
01:58:26,025 –> 01:58:29,865
He was building cliches. He was putting something into the world. Right? As

1883
01:58:29,865 –> 01:58:33,640
a creator, and this is why I love having you on and talking about this

1884
01:58:33,640 –> 01:58:36,840
kind of stuff. As a creator, how do we

1885
01:58:38,015 –> 01:58:41,615
well, how do we build past Disney, past X

1886
01:58:41,615 –> 01:58:45,455
Men, past MCU, past Star Wars? My thought

1887
01:58:45,455 –> 01:58:48,930
is, like, I’m so tired of lazy writing and lazy world building. I’m gonna go

1888
01:58:48,930 –> 01:58:51,910
build my own world that is going to have all of the

1889
01:58:52,370 –> 01:58:55,350
passion and thought and care and love

1890
01:58:56,045 –> 01:58:59,725
that I grew up reading. Mhmm. That’s what I’m gonna go. I’m gonna

1891
01:58:59,725 –> 01:59:02,845
go create that. And if hopefully it Sorrells, and if it doesn’t, I don’t know.

1892
01:59:02,845 –> 01:59:06,690
I’m just gonna push it until it does. Mhmm. I there’s no there’s not really

1893
01:59:06,690 –> 01:59:09,590
any room in my mind for like, eventually,

1894
01:59:11,730 –> 01:59:15,295
people like me who maybe are still, like, please get better

1895
01:59:15,695 –> 01:59:19,534
Mhmm. Haven’t thrown in the towel yet, are

1896
01:59:19,534 –> 01:59:23,180
gonna find my world, and they’re gonna be

1897
01:59:23,180 –> 01:59:27,020
starving for it. And I think and I I don’t

1898
01:59:27,020 –> 01:59:30,835
I don’t and here’s the other thing. I’m kinda I know competition is

1899
01:59:30,835 –> 01:59:34,215
a thing. Mhmm. But I would love it if there were, like,

1900
01:59:34,515 –> 01:59:38,130
10, 20, however many other writers go and do the same

1901
01:59:38,130 –> 01:59:41,970
thing. Like, there’s room. There’s room. My world is gonna

1902
01:59:41,970 –> 01:59:45,410
be different from your world. Go build your own world. Make it make it

1903
01:59:45,410 –> 01:59:48,835
good. Take the time. Don’t be in a

1904
01:59:48,835 –> 01:59:52,675
rush. Like, just just just let it marinate. You know?

1905
01:59:52,675 –> 01:59:56,380
Make a make a good thing, and

1906
01:59:56,380 –> 02:00:00,140
it’s hard. Do do the hard thing, which is we want

1907
02:00:00,140 –> 02:00:03,625
the easy out. Right? We’re like, oh, chat gpt. Let let it write it for

1908
02:00:03,625 –> 02:00:06,605
me. Like, no. Chat gpt can be a useful tool.

1909
02:00:07,465 –> 02:00:11,110
Mhmm. But it’s not gonna write it’s not gonna write your book. It’s not gonna

1910
02:00:11,110 –> 02:00:14,950
build your world in a, like you said, with any

1911
02:00:14,950 –> 02:00:18,390
substance. So go make your own

1912
02:00:18,390 –> 02:00:22,105
thing. If you’re unhappy with that, think about, like, hey. What would

1913
02:00:22,105 –> 02:00:25,545
you do instead? What would you do better? And then go do it. Don’t just

1914
02:00:25,545 –> 02:00:28,365
talk about it. Be like, Yeah. That would be cool if that existed.

1915
02:00:31,050 –> 02:00:34,730
You had the thought, go make it. Because the way you’re gonna make it is

1916
02:00:34,730 –> 02:00:37,815
gonna be different from how I would make it. It. And then suddenly, if we

1917
02:00:37,815 –> 02:00:41,175
both put in the time and the effort and the, you know, the

1918
02:00:41,175 –> 02:00:44,989
passion, then we have 2 plus

1919
02:00:45,449 –> 02:00:49,210
very high quality fantasy worlds. And

1920
02:00:49,210 –> 02:00:51,949
just, like, people are gonna eat it up. And eventually,

1921
02:00:53,284 –> 02:00:56,724
you know, this is this is where I, you know, I definitely I’m the

1922
02:00:56,724 –> 02:01:00,429
idealist naive. If everything was roses, you know,

1923
02:01:00,429 –> 02:01:04,270
eventually, Hollywood will be so starving for good content, then they’re

1924
02:01:04,270 –> 02:01:07,570
gonna come to us. And they’ll be like, hey.

1925
02:01:08,555 –> 02:01:12,395
You have good writing. And I’ll be like, yes. And I will continue to

1926
02:01:12,395 –> 02:01:16,195
be involved, and I’m not taking your contract until Right.

1927
02:01:16,395 –> 02:01:20,180
You’re like, there’s, oh, here’s the other thing. We need more people who can’t

1928
02:01:20,180 –> 02:01:23,720
be bought. We wanna criticize so much

1929
02:01:24,100 –> 02:01:27,324
of, like, people who have a ton of money

1930
02:01:28,664 –> 02:01:32,505
with without realizing that, like, we’re just waiting for our

1931
02:01:32,505 –> 02:01:36,000
chance to have that much money, except especially for

1932
02:01:36,000 –> 02:01:39,840
artists, we need things that that there’s

1933
02:01:39,840 –> 02:01:43,460
no there’s no figure. You cannot pay me enough

1934
02:01:44,000 –> 02:01:47,825
to turn Orda into Star Wars. Orda, sorry, is

1935
02:01:47,825 –> 02:01:51,585
the name of my world. You are d a. Like like, the I’m not

1936
02:01:51,585 –> 02:01:54,460
going to let you do that. I like, I think about this all the time

1937
02:01:54,460 –> 02:01:58,300
for when I’m fantasizing. To let each director would I trust pretty

1938
02:01:58,300 –> 02:02:01,900
much implicitly with with my work, and I think I have

1939
02:02:01,900 –> 02:02:05,655
1. And his name is Guillermo del Tom, and because that guy is picky.

1940
02:02:07,715 –> 02:02:11,550
And when they wanted to make Pacific Rim 2, he was like, nah. Yeah.

1941
02:02:11,550 –> 02:02:14,750
I don’t need that. I’m not gonna do it. And so they made it without

1942
02:02:14,750 –> 02:02:18,430
him. And guess what? It was It was exactly what you would

1943
02:02:18,430 –> 02:02:21,915
expect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But Guillermo del Toro is just such

1944
02:02:21,915 –> 02:02:25,755
a fantastic storyteller. If, you know, if you didn’t watch his

1945
02:02:25,755 –> 02:02:29,594
Pinocchio that came out on Netflix, that was amazing. Okay. So let me ask you

1946
02:02:29,594 –> 02:02:32,619
let me ask you the counter question to this, which I always get from people.

1947
02:02:32,619 –> 02:02:36,380
How do I survive the 10

1948
02:02:36,380 –> 02:02:40,175
years because I gotta eat and I need somewhere to live? Give me

1949
02:02:40,175 –> 02:02:43,795
practical steps on how I survive while I’m building this thing

1950
02:02:44,109 –> 02:02:47,780
Tom maybe at the end of that 10 years, no 1 will care about.

1951
02:02:48,020 –> 02:02:51,380
Might pay off. That’s true. But more likely than not, no 1 will care about.

1952
02:02:51,380 –> 02:02:55,059
So how do I live? Well, so part right. Right.

1953
02:02:55,059 –> 02:02:58,585
It’s like it’s it depends on what you want. Do you want to survive fourth

1954
02:02:58,585 –> 02:03:02,185
do you want to be happy on the journey? So, like, my what I love

1955
02:03:02,185 –> 02:03:05,860
about my writing is that I love this process.

1956
02:03:06,240 –> 02:03:10,080
Yeah. If I get to the end and it never makes me a dime,

1957
02:03:10,080 –> 02:03:13,825
I’m like, well, I had fun. Writers? So

1958
02:03:14,285 –> 02:03:16,785
What else would I have done with my time? Exactly.

1959
02:03:18,925 –> 02:03:22,280
III had fun. It’s out there. It’s it’s alive.

1960
02:03:22,500 –> 02:03:26,180
Maybe my kids will pick it up and be like, hey. Mama wrote this

1961
02:03:26,180 –> 02:03:29,705
cool book. We’re gonna publish it for her. Right. Like, may

1962
02:03:29,785 –> 02:03:33,625
maybe. I don’t know. I don’t know how this is gonna Tom gonna

1963
02:03:33,625 –> 02:03:37,145
shake out. All I know is I’m having a blast. I love what I’m

1964
02:03:37,145 –> 02:03:40,980
doing. I love collaborating with my coauthor. Like and that the

1965
02:03:40,980 –> 02:03:44,600
journey is the thing anyway. At the end, if I make $1, 000, 000,

1966
02:03:45,140 –> 02:03:48,905
cool. At the end, if I make $10, cool. Like,

1967
02:03:48,905 –> 02:03:51,885
hey. Whatever. Because it’s not about that ultimately.

1968
02:03:52,825 –> 02:03:56,570
Yeah. And so, you know, how do you pay the bills? I think I

1969
02:03:56,570 –> 02:04:00,330
got lucky. I have multiple passions. So, like, I was, you know, I

1970
02:04:00,330 –> 02:04:04,145
was teaching music in a

1971
02:04:04,145 –> 02:04:07,985
pretty affluent area. So I like, it’s

1972
02:04:07,985 –> 02:04:10,230
a pretty it’s a fairly cushy job.

1973
02:04:12,070 –> 02:04:15,750
We’re working like, it’s hard work. It is. Yeah. Yeah. I love my

1974
02:04:15,750 –> 02:04:19,130
students. Yeah. Right? I love and I so I got I think

1975
02:04:19,385 –> 02:04:23,225
maybe not I shouldn’t say I got lucky because then, you know, everybody’s

1976
02:04:23,225 –> 02:04:26,525
like, well, she’s a special unicorn. I can’t do that. You gotta, like,

1977
02:04:26,970 –> 02:04:30,650
figure out how to, like, enjoy whatever

1978
02:04:30,650 –> 02:04:34,490
process. 1 will make you money, and then 1 is the

1979
02:04:34,490 –> 02:04:38,315
long term 1 fourth 1 will pay the bills. Right? That’s what my voice

1980
02:04:38,315 –> 02:04:41,915
teaching kinda always was. And, again, that’s not to say that I, like, I cared

1981
02:04:41,915 –> 02:04:45,750
very deeply about my students. And taking this summer off to to stay

1982
02:04:45,750 –> 02:04:49,210
home with my daughter was actually a very difficult decision. Mhmm.

1983
02:04:50,230 –> 02:04:53,885
But, yeah, I think I think people have

1984
02:04:53,885 –> 02:04:57,645
that in them. They’ve or at the very least, they’ve got a way to find

1985
02:04:57,645 –> 02:05:01,449
a job that’s at least not soul sucking. Right. Because if

1986
02:05:01,449 –> 02:05:04,670
it’s if it’s just this job that you show up and you do the thing

1987
02:05:04,810 –> 02:05:08,090
and it doesn’t take a lot of mental or emotional energy, then you have that

1988
02:05:08,090 –> 02:05:11,925
mental, emotional energy to do your side thing, to create.

1989
02:05:12,545 –> 02:05:15,845
That’s how you do it. Well, and when you show up to do that job,

1990
02:05:18,010 –> 02:05:20,830
And this is something I mean, this is how I solve that conundrum

1991
02:05:21,610 –> 02:05:24,250
when I show up to do that job. And I and I even use this

1992
02:05:24,250 –> 02:05:27,695
to solve this conundrum today, or this

1993
02:05:27,695 –> 02:05:31,535
idea. I’m in that 8 hours or 4 hours or whatever

1994
02:05:31,535 –> 02:05:34,800
it is that I’m giving to that employer. I’m not

1995
02:05:35,340 –> 02:05:39,099
over there with whatever the thing is that I’m building. I’m

1996
02:05:39,099 –> 02:05:42,800
here with you, but I’m a partner in this.

1997
02:05:43,235 –> 02:05:46,855
I’m not your employee. And partner means

1998
02:05:47,475 –> 02:05:50,835
if I don’t like what you’re doing, I’m free to

1999
02:05:50,835 –> 02:05:54,590
leave. Mhmm. I’m also free to set the

2000
02:05:54,730 –> 02:05:58,430
terms of what I will do, what I won’t do,

2001
02:05:59,175 –> 02:06:02,775
not in a way that disrespects you or the business, but in a way that

2002
02:06:02,775 –> 02:06:06,350
respects what you’ve built and respects who I am.

2003
02:06:06,750 –> 02:06:10,236
Mhmm. Now if you can come to some fourth

2004
02:06:11,630 –> 02:06:15,335
that, great. We can work together. Mhmm. But

2005
02:06:15,335 –> 02:06:18,555
if we can’t, I’m not for you

2006
02:06:19,015 –> 02:06:21,435
as an employer, and that’s okay.

2007
02:06:22,820 –> 02:06:26,420
The world always needs more bartenders. I can hear I can

2008
02:06:26,420 –> 02:06:29,880
hear people saying, like, that’s very idealistic way of of,

2009
02:06:30,055 –> 02:06:33,815
like, you have to pay the bills with and and desperation was what

2010
02:06:33,815 –> 02:06:37,255
came to mind. But I think there’s this

2011
02:06:37,255 –> 02:06:41,030
belief or this fear that you can’t

2012
02:06:41,730 –> 02:06:45,489
find that. Right. And you can’t. So you have to keep looking.

2013
02:06:45,489 –> 02:06:49,075
Like, it might take a while to find. Yeah. But you can find it. Oh,

2014
02:06:49,075 –> 02:06:52,915
yeah. Well and and and totally shifted around everything when the employer

2015
02:06:52,915 –> 02:06:56,355
to employee relationship, like, in ways that are dramatic that I would not have

2016
02:06:56,355 –> 02:07:00,010
anticipated. And what we now have is people who are putting in the bare

2017
02:07:00,010 –> 02:07:03,370
minimum at the employee level, and it

2018
02:07:03,370 –> 02:07:06,965
shows. And that damages what the

2019
02:07:06,965 –> 02:07:10,485
employer is able to offer. We see this particularly in the restaurant industry. That

2020
02:07:10,485 –> 02:07:13,785
damages what the employer is able to offer as a service,

2021
02:07:14,160 –> 02:07:17,760
which by the way, if you don’t offer a better service, you cannot make more

2022
02:07:17,760 –> 02:07:21,440
money and thus raise the book. Writers. And so the symbiotic relationship, the

2023
02:07:21,440 –> 02:07:25,205
deal, to paraphrase from Darth Vader, has been altered.

2024
02:07:27,585 –> 02:07:31,344
These deals get worse and worse all the time. All of us. This

2025
02:07:31,344 –> 02:07:33,630
is this is a very fine deal, and I’ll take it.

2026
02:07:35,469 –> 02:07:38,590
Because we haven’t seen the bid on robot chicken. You need to see it. Hilarious.

2027
02:07:38,590 –> 02:07:41,915
Oh my gosh. It’s hilarious. I used to use that line back in the day

2028
02:07:41,915 –> 02:07:45,275
when I was leading larger teams because, like, careful, I don’t alter the deal. Just

2029
02:07:45,275 –> 02:07:49,035
be careful. And 1 of my employees was a

2030
02:07:49,035 –> 02:07:51,780
huge Tom Wars fan. He would always laugh. I was like, just don’t don’t laugh

2031
02:07:51,780 –> 02:07:55,620
because I might alter the deal. And you’re robot thing. It was hysterical. It

2032
02:07:55,620 –> 02:07:59,375
was hysterical. Yeah. My point is by the way, a show that could never get

2033
02:07:59,375 –> 02:08:03,135
made today fourth Right. Or the Boondocks. Like, everyone’s seeing

2034
02:08:03,135 –> 02:08:06,975
Boondocks. They’re now floating around among the Gen z ers on Instagram. It’s kind of

2035
02:08:06,975 –> 02:08:10,600
interesting to see, like, this is floating up from the cultural zeitgeist. And I’m like,

2036
02:08:10,600 –> 02:08:14,380
oh, this is interesting. Y’all looking for quality, aren’t you? There you go.

2037
02:08:15,240 –> 02:08:18,815
But but, but I think that you

2038
02:08:18,815 –> 02:08:22,575
can get there, but that symbiotic relationship has been broken. Mhmm. And,

2039
02:08:22,575 –> 02:08:26,350
again, that’s part of the chaos piece. And so it’s how do

2040
02:08:26,350 –> 02:08:29,710
we rebuild that symbiotic relationship. It’s how do

2041
02:08:29,710 –> 02:08:33,470
we build new structures on the other side. I don’t need to hear any

2042
02:08:33,470 –> 02:08:36,905
more about how we break them apart because we figured that part out. Right. How

2043
02:08:36,905 –> 02:08:40,265
do we rebuild that symbiotic structure? So if I No. It’s gonna take the

2044
02:08:40,265 –> 02:08:43,940
leaders. The leaders have to do it. Leaders have to go first. Yeah.

2045
02:08:43,940 –> 02:08:47,400
Exactly. Yeah. Yep. It’s gonna take the leaders.

2046
02:08:47,780 –> 02:08:51,575
Alright. Well, we have resolved everything here, but that’s okay. That’s

2047
02:08:51,575 –> 02:08:55,415
it. That’s fine. That’s fine. We we read some things from, the count of Monte

2048
02:08:55,415 –> 02:08:58,960
Cristo. I strongly heartily recommend you either get the unabridged

2049
02:08:58,960 –> 02:09:02,720
version or the abridged version, whichever version. They’re both great. But you know what

2050
02:09:02,720 –> 02:09:05,600
you have time fourth. But you know what you have time for in your in

2051
02:09:05,600 –> 02:09:08,935
your day. We will have Kristen back on

2052
02:09:09,315 –> 02:09:12,855
when I finally power through to the end of

2053
02:09:12,995 –> 02:09:16,770
my unbridged version of, the count of Montecristo, but I’m

2054
02:09:16,770 –> 02:09:20,469
going to thank Christopher for coming on our podcast today. And, of course,

2055
02:09:20,610 –> 02:09:23,875
when Belle of the Book comes out, we’ll have her on to talk about that.

2056
02:09:23,875 –> 02:09:27,474
I can’t wait to see that new project come into the world, and I look

2057
02:09:27,474 –> 02:09:31,210
forward to hearing more from her about this. So thank you very much for coming

2058
02:09:31,210 –> 02:09:33,930
on the podcast today, Kristin. It was great. Thank you so much for having me.

2059
02:09:33,930 –> 02:09:37,470
It’s a blast. Alright. And with that, well, folks,

2060
02:09:38,090 –> 02:09:38,990
we’re out.