Leadership Lessons From The Great Books – Sitting Bull: His Life and Legacy by Ernie LaPointe w/Tom Libby

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

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Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode

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number 125. This is

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our big 100 and 25th episode. That means that we are

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25 episodes away from a 150 episodes, and

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that also means we’re 75 episodes away from

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200 episodes. I don’t know what we’re gonna do for our 200th. We did

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a panel discussion for our 100th episode. I don’t know what we do for 200th,

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but we’ll worry about that when we get there. And,

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so with our book today, a book that

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is a

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it’s an extension of some of the information that we

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covered in, the episode number 79,

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where we talked about Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee with Dee

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Brown. This book that we are going to

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talk about today and the individual who is talked about in

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this book is, as it says on the back of the book, an iconic

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legend, particularly in American

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history, but also for all of our international listeners who may not know anything

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about American history, was very important to the

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settling and the resistance towards the settling

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of the American west.

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This book is written from the perspective of an

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individual 3 generations away from

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this iconic legend. And one of the things that jumped out

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to me today, and I’m gonna talk with, Tom about this today,

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it is an attempt to write the ship

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of legacy, for not

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only this individual and not only for his family,

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but also to attempt to write the ship of legacy

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for future generations, before time

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runs out. So the book that we will be covering

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today, and, yes, we are recording this on Indigenous

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Peoples’ Day or as some folks still know it in the United States, Columbus

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Day, so it’s ironic that we are recording

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this today. The book that we will be covering is Sitting

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Bull, his life and legacy. See it on

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the video there by Ernie Lapointe, the

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great grandson, proved through genetic testing, by the way, in

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2009, of Sitting Bull.

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And, of course, today, we are going to be joined in our conversation

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around the legend of Sitting Bull and the life and legacy of

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Sitting Bull with our regular cohost, Tom Libby.

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How are you doing, Tom? I am doing fantastic today. Hey,

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son. Alrighty. So

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you will be happy to know, by the way, that I did indeed once I

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finished reading this book, I went and cross referenced whatever Dee Brown had been talking

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about. Yep. And I was like, oh, that’s where the gaps

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are. And so we could talk about we could talk about the gaps in

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Dee Brown’s sort of research, which Ernie Lapointe does address a little

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bit in here, but that’s not really his main focus. So we can talk a

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little bit about that today. And, of course, you know, what does it mean

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to have an oral tradition actually actually written down?

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There’s another one too by, Robert Utley that was decent as well. I

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don’t know if, people I think that was printed in 2008 or something

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like that. There was Okay. There was a decent book as well. So between the

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3, I think the 3 books paint a a decent picture.

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Yeah. Pretty well on picture. And it’s really hard to kinda get

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ahold around, Sitting Bull for

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a whole variety of reasons.

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And, and I think it starts with understanding

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I think it starts with understanding who Sitting Bull was and sort

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of how he earned his name. So I wanna wanna start

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with that because, his name is not Sitting Bull.

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That is not that is not his his

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what’s the appropriate term? Is that his native name? I I I don’t know what

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the appropriate term is there because in in African American culture, we call it something

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else. Yeah. So Sitting Bull Sitting Bull is is Sitting Bull is a is a

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translation. Right? So his Okay. His actual his actual name and,

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again, part part of it is because, and this happens

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even today in in translation. Like, when you hear the words, you know,

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lost in translation, there’s a reason that that phrase exists

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because a lot of times, there are either words or grammatical

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structure or just the, you know, the ways in which

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we, the way in which we

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we talk just changes certain things.

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Like, I so I I was, you know, I was very adamant

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with, like, with my name that people didn’t reverse it. So my

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name in my language, keep up with

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that that con is legit, like, literally eagle

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rising, and everybody wants to reverse it because the way of the

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way that the English sentence structure is, they naturally wanna

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say rising eagle. Right? Like it’s like a it’s like a natural thing, and that’s

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kinda happened a lot throughout history of of the native. So you’re right.

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His his official, his actual,

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name is not Sitting Bull. It’s a that is an abbreviated

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or, what is the term I would

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use, paraphrased, I guess. Like, it’s it’s simplified,

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version of his of his actual. And you can you can read you can read

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the actual right out of the book, I would imagine, or you already I don’t

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know if you already know it. But I I well, and I didn’t. And

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so getting the book and reading it, that was first sort

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of the first sort of leapfrog, I guess, I had to make

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over it over over over a number of different things in the book. But How

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about how about his birth name? Because his birth name wasn’t Sitting Bull either.

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No. Because we’re doing sensible. And that’s and that’s something that people don’t

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understand about the the native culture either is that your name

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can change throughout your life, and it’s usually dependent on,

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something again, on your birth, it’s something that somebody in

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your family as an elder sees in the brand new

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baby that some sort of, you know, spiritual component

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or physical characteristic or something like that that they named the baby out of

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right out the gate. And then you develop into an individual,

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a person that, they may rename you because that

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name doesn’t apply anymore. Like, the name doesn’t you know, it’s not it’s

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not relevant to you or your personality traits or your

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accomplishments have given you a higher level of respect

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or a higher, you know, status symbol that

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requires a a more appropriate name of of sorts. So if

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you I don’t know. If you wanna read them, I know, like, you know, his

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his birth name is different than his his name after, his,

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10th or 14th. It’s either 10th or 14th

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birthday where Mhmm. He was really recognized as, you know, becoming a

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man and that kind of stuff. So it was Yeah. We’re gonna let’s let’s get

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into that part because that’s that’s sort of where we I think we should start.

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So I’m going to pick up directly from Sitting Bull, His Life and Legacy

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by Ernie Lapointe. And I wanna I wanna talk about the provenance of this book

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too and sort of how it came about because I think that’s all very important

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for leaders to, to know. And, of course, as usual,

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we will find the leadership lessons that are in

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this this, this this man’s

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life. Alright. From Sidney Bull, his life and

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legacy by earning the point.

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The life of this Lakota Sundancer began back in 18/31.

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This is when the Bad Bow Band of the Hunkpapa tribe of

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the Tietunwa Lakota nation was camped on the banks of the

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Elk River, now known as the Yellowstone River in Montana.

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Tiantunwa means looking for a home site. These people travel

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over vast areas pursuing the buffalo and roaming freely through

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immense open territories. The whites mispronounced their name and

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called them Teton. The child was the 2nd of 4

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children born to her holy door woman and returns again and was

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to be their only son. His older sister was good feather woman,

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while his younger twin sisters were called twin woman and brown

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shawl woman. Returns again was very proud

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of his newborn son and gave the infant his childhood name, jumping badger.

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In Lakota culture, the young boy received his first name from

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something his father had seen or experienced. His adult

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name was given to acknowledge a noteworthy deed he accomplished

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in his adolescence or adulthood.

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Now going to make another point here, then I’m

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gonna skip to where he gets his his name changed. Jumping

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badger was different from other boys his age. Where the others

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were adventurous, eager, and often reckless, jumping badger always held back

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thinking before he leaped. If he had lived in this century, he would have

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been considered a gifted child and would have been praised for his self discipline and

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for always analyzing everything before he acted.

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His own people, though, misunderstood thinking his behavior was

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hesitant and feeble. They gave him a nickname. They started calling

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him Hunkensy. No. Sorry. Hunk Kesne.

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Sorry. Slow moving or weak.

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Now in Lakota culture, when a boy reached a certain age, his father would approach

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either a brother or a brother-in-law. He would give this trusted man a gift and

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a filled pipe. Then the father would ask for his help in sharing with his

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son the Lakota way of being. Through example and stories, the uncle will

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show the boy how to be a man, a warrior, and a provider for his

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family. For a Lakota boy, while his father was a familiar

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figure for whom he might feel great affection, His uncle was

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an authority, a person to be respected and admired. A

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boy would listen to his uncle.

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Now I’m gonna pause there. That’s the first thing that jumped out to me,

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primarily because, oh, in our postmodern

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culture, one of the massive challenges we have with masculinity, and it is a

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gigantic challenge that no one wants to talk about, is we do not

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have any transitional

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traditions for young men. If you look at any

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tradition rights of passage. Rights of passage. Exactly. If you look at any traditional

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culture, particularly traditional religious cultures, I always I often think

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of Judaism. Right? Sure. You know, they’re going to have,

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you know, the the what is it called? The word

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now now I’m gonna lose the word. But they’re bat mitzvah. There you

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go. Bat mitzvah. They’re gonna have a bat mitzvah or a bar mitzvah for,

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bat mitzvahs for the girls. They’re gonna have a bar mitzvah. Well, e even there,

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they’re going to have a transitional ceremony for for a young man.

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Mhmm. But in African American

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culture, in majority, Caucasian culture,

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in particular in our postmodern times where we don’t value tradition,

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we’ve abandoned these transitional steps. I mean, yes, you transition

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from high school to college. You know, that’s a major transition that a lot of

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people celebrate. But at the end of the day, for a

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young man, there’s no markers or there’s very few in our

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society and culture. And that was one of the first things that jumped out to

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me about this book, and about the value

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in telling Sitting Bull’s story and

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relating that story. And it describes in

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detail his transitional, experience

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going from being a boy to being a man.

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So one of the questions I wanted to ask you before we really fully fall

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into this is, did you have a transitional experience in going from being a

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boy to being a man? And if you didn’t, why didn’t

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you? Because I didn’t have one. I just my mom was

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just like, Hey, congratulations. Go pay your bills.

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Get out. Well, I mean, that’s terrible. It wasn’t nearly like that.

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It, I, I, I shouldn’t throw my brother on the bus like that. It wasn’t

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nearly like that, but there wasn’t, there were no significant

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markers to say you’ve hit this spot in the road. There were

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no benchmarks as we say in sales. Right? To say you’ve hit this spot and

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now you can go accomplish another goal. And for me, that’s

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something that I’ve struggled with or I did struggle with for a long time,

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even going into even going into my

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adulthood. So let

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me I I I I wanna clarify, a couple things

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real quick before I answer the question. So number 1 number 1,

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just as you read this and just remember, you

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know, Sitting Bull was Hunkpapa, Sioux or Lakota

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rather. Sorry. It was a Sioux and, speaking, tribal

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affiliation out in the western part of our country. So,

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my people where I come from is in here in the northeast. So

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my people would have been, in Southeastern Canada, Northeastern

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United States, so Nova Scotia, along the main

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coastline down to about the northernmost part of Massachusetts

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around Salisbury, Gloucester, that area. And

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so the although there are some universal

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thinking, there’s some universal

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kind of stereotypes that get thrown on us.

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The actual there were actual cultural differences, right,

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between the northeast here and and the the western part of the country.

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Yeah. Today, that gap has slowed or

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shrinking, shrunken just because of the advent of modern

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technology. Like, we can see what’s happening in, with our brothers and

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sisters out in the western part of the country very easily. We have the Internet,

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things and so and so and so forth. All that being said,

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I also wanna remind our listeners here that,

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although I was when I was younger and born,

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and I was told very early on that I was native, but my biological mother

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who raised me was not native and did not subscribe to

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any of the culture or teachings, as such.

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I didn’t meet my biological father until I was 21 years

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old. And already knowing I was native, I just

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started asking a bunch of questions about how, who, what, where, how, why,

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whatever. Like, what does this mean for me? So I’ve spent the last

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30 years catching up, or at least I felt like I’ve been catching

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up over the last 30 So to answer so to answer your

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question, now so no. I didn’t have any of that

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either. I didn’t have any of that coming of age, kind of situation

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at at in the traditional way. What I did have,

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though, was and, again, I have no problem throwing

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my biological mother under the bus. Your mom sounds like a wonderful human being, and

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I would encourage you not to do that, Ehsan. And I have never met the

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woman, but she sounds, from what you’ve told me, very nice. Anyway, my

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biological mother, on the other hand, I actually remember the day

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to the day. I remember the actual day, and I won’t bore everybody with

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the, the actual logistics. I will just tell you that

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I remember the day that I went into my mother and I asked her a

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question, and she had zero answer for me,

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and I had to go figure it out on my own, and I did. And

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once I figured it out on my own, I realized I didn’t need her anymore.

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I was 11. So I was 11,

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just about turning 12, and I I felt like I needed

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her for this particular thing. And, again, I’m not going into logistics because you don’t

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need Sure. And I also don’t need listeners thinking it’s a sob story. It’s not

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Yeah. Yeah. That’s not the point of it. My point is that that coming of

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age thing for me actually did happen, but not in a traditional

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sense. It was a very postmodern sense. Like, it was Yeah. The

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very thing where I I went to her and I said I need help. I

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was in charge of my brother and sister. My brother and sister were younger. Mhmm.

257
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I wasn’t I wasn’t sure how to handle a particular situation. I went to her

258
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for help and guidance. She had no response and not even a care

259
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enough to try to help me find the right answer.

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So I felt like I had to figure it out on my own. I did.

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And once I did and once I realized that that what I learned and what

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I figured out was right enough

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I’m just being very careful with my words here. Absolutely. Yes. It was

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right enough that it wasn’t that it that that it made me able to move

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forward with my life. Mhmm. At that point, I literally

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stopped asking my biological mother for help. I stopped asking her for

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advice. I stopped asking her for guidance.

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She was of no use to me at that point other than

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an adult body that I needed. And I did need her adulthood because I I

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couldn’t sign documents at that point. Right. Yeah. But when I, you know, when

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it when I when I had to when it meant taking my brother or

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sister to the doctor or understanding what their medical

273
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needs were, I literally just needed her there to sign the document at the end

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of the day. Otherwise, it was all on me. Right.

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Right. Yeah. Mhmm. Okay. So, I mean,

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that so, again, that lack of transition.

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Right? That lack of you know?

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And I think a lot of people I don’t think your story is unusual. I

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think a lot of people have that experience. I

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agree. I also think that a lot more people have that experience

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than what we actually want to acknowledge. I agree with that too.

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Because I don’t think

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that and I’m gonna particularly

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pick on America. I don’t think that American culture has done a particularly

285
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great job of providing those

286
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markers for people because American culture didn’t think you needed them

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overall. I also

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think that well,

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traditionally, there’s a lot of weight put on Christianity and religion to

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kind of provide these markers and these pushes forward.

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And, you know, traditional Catholicism, orthodox

292
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Protestantism will indeed do

293
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some of that. But at the end of the day, to your

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point, it’s gotta come from family. And I think this is reflected in

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00:18:25,210 –> 00:18:28,490
Sitting Bull’s story. It has to come from family and what he says about or

296
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what they what Ernie Lapointe says

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about the Lakota way of being. Through example, in stories, the uncle

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would show the boy how to be a man, a warrior, and a provider for

299
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his family, which I found that to be interesting as well because we don’t

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actually talk a whole lot about extended family. Like, I was raised by by extended

301
00:18:46,370 –> 00:18:50,130
family. Right? Like, I grew up with my grandma. And

302
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so I was aware that,

303
00:18:56,210 –> 00:18:58,690
well, I was aware that there were other people other than just my mother and

304
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my father in the world. Right? And I think with

305
00:19:02,425 –> 00:19:05,885
the atomization and the individualization of American culture,

306
00:19:06,905 –> 00:19:10,265
a lot of people aren’t getting that. Right? They’re getting it’s it’s

307
00:19:10,265 –> 00:19:14,025
it’s mom and dad, the kids of this unit, and then they’re and they’re cut

308
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off from the community, and then there’s none of these transitions that take place. And

309
00:19:17,460 –> 00:19:21,220
so how do you how do you navigate that, you know, in a in a

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really, quite frankly, complicated environment? And I think that’s why some many

311
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families one of the many reasons why families are floundering and have been for quite

312
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some time. Well and and I I I think the other thing too

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00:19:31,845 –> 00:19:35,685
and and this we can talk about this probably all by itself. I hate this

314
00:19:35,685 –> 00:19:39,365
particular topic because within one generation of

315
00:19:39,365 –> 00:19:43,205
parenting, I’ve seen just drastic differences. Like, if you ask

316
00:19:43,205 –> 00:19:46,830
my my all of my kids are in their early twenties. Right?

317
00:19:46,830 –> 00:19:50,190
Actually, I lied. 1 of my sons is 29. But aside from him, they’re all

318
00:19:50,190 –> 00:19:53,790
in their they’re in their early twenties. And if you ask them what their

319
00:19:53,790 –> 00:19:57,090
childhood was like in the extended family sense,

320
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Extended family to them did not stop at aunts, uncles because

321
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it wasn’t a blood thing. It was more like you know? So, like,

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I I my my son will be very quick to tell you the difference between

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today. Like, if he was at a powwow when he was 5 or 6 or

324
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7 years old, every single person on that field had

325
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something to say about what he could or couldn’t do. Like Right. Whether they were

326
00:20:19,450 –> 00:20:22,730
whether they were blood family or not, if they were on the powwow field and

327
00:20:22,730 –> 00:20:26,544
he got yelled at by one of the elders, he was

328
00:20:26,765 –> 00:20:30,525
hesitant to come back to me to tell me what was going

329
00:20:30,525 –> 00:20:34,285
on because he knew that if that was an elder

330
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that I respected and he did something to offend them or to hurt their

331
00:20:37,804 –> 00:20:41,610
feeling or whatever or irritate them or whatever, that that was

332
00:20:41,610 –> 00:20:45,130
gonna be the end of his day. Like Right. Yeah. You know, like, there there

333
00:20:45,130 –> 00:20:48,810
was gonna be some severe and swift and cruel pun swift and

334
00:20:48,810 –> 00:20:52,030
cruel punishment because that and that’s how he

335
00:20:52,570 –> 00:20:56,190
developed that understanding that the elders matter. Right? Like,

336
00:20:56,250 –> 00:20:59,685
because, Right. Now he looks at kids showing up to powwows

337
00:20:59,685 –> 00:21:03,525
today, and our generation looking

338
00:21:03,525 –> 00:21:06,725
at these kids going, hey. Hey. Don’t do that. And the kid flipping us off

339
00:21:06,725 –> 00:21:10,165
or the kid saying go f whatever. My son’s sitting there

340
00:21:10,165 –> 00:21:13,870
going, oh my good lord. I’d have been dead. Like, I would’ve somebody would’ve killed

341
00:21:13,870 –> 00:21:17,070
me if I did that in my and that’s one generation. He’s only my the

342
00:21:17,070 –> 00:21:19,650
one I’m talking about. My youngest son is only 25.

343
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He’s he’s 25, and he notices he noticed that dramatic

344
00:21:24,270 –> 00:21:28,065
difference between when you know, 20 years ago when he was 5 versus

345
00:21:28,065 –> 00:21:31,665
today in a 5 or 6 year old. It’s insane to to to

346
00:21:31,665 –> 00:21:35,265
him to to see that difference. The whole it takes a

347
00:21:35,265 –> 00:21:38,865
village to raise a child is out the window because you’re not

348
00:21:38,865 –> 00:21:42,430
willing to have somebody else teach your

349
00:21:42,430 –> 00:21:46,110
child a lesson of right and wrong Right. Because because of

350
00:21:46,110 –> 00:21:49,710
why? Because I don’t understand. Like, if if if it’s because you don’t

351
00:21:49,710 –> 00:21:53,470
agree with their right and wrong, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t

352
00:21:53,470 –> 00:21:57,154
take it as an opportunity to teach your child that there’s a there’s

353
00:21:57,154 –> 00:22:00,835
also a difference of opinions, and people that have different opinions than

354
00:22:00,835 –> 00:22:04,294
you still matter. There’s other lessons to learn there.

355
00:22:04,434 –> 00:22:08,034
So I I don’t under I don’t you know, I see it my

356
00:22:08,034 –> 00:22:11,475
nephew my nephew has a daughter. She’s almost 3 years old, and I see it

357
00:22:11,475 –> 00:22:15,020
even with him. And and her she was at my house

358
00:22:15,020 –> 00:22:18,300
yesterday, and she went to throw some little temper tantrum at the, you know, 2

359
00:22:18,300 –> 00:22:21,740
and a half year old’s throw. And I went, oh, no. No. Not in this

360
00:22:21,740 –> 00:22:25,260
house. And, you know, my nephew’s

361
00:22:25,260 –> 00:22:29,015
reaction was, oh my god. What’s the matter? Are you alright? What

362
00:22:29,015 –> 00:22:32,054
are you thinking right now? She’s 2a half. Just tell her to cut the crap.

363
00:22:32,054 –> 00:22:34,875
Well, you know what I mean? Like, don’t So is this and so this is

364
00:22:35,255 –> 00:22:37,195
a this is something that,

365
00:22:39,495 –> 00:22:43,290
African Americans have long noted about, and I’m gonna I

366
00:22:43,370 –> 00:22:46,090
hate to do this to you folks, but I’m gonna make a racial distinction here,

367
00:22:46,090 –> 00:22:49,630
that African Americans have noted about about Caucasian parents.

368
00:22:51,450 –> 00:22:54,030
There are all kinds of things that they will do

369
00:22:55,050 –> 00:22:58,855
that are, quite frankly, racially and culturally

370
00:22:58,995 –> 00:23:02,755
based that if the skin color were different, those kids

371
00:23:02,755 –> 00:23:06,195
wouldn’t be getting away with it. They did. They just, they just wouldn’t.

372
00:23:06,195 –> 00:23:09,750
Now what’s interesting is as I’ve

373
00:23:09,750 –> 00:23:13,430
gotten older, I attribute that less to race and more

374
00:23:13,430 –> 00:23:17,030
to class because I see classes of people doing different

375
00:23:17,030 –> 00:23:20,810
things regardless of race that other classes

376
00:23:20,950 –> 00:23:24,044
won’t do regardless of race. Right? Yeah.

377
00:23:25,385 –> 00:23:29,144
And so I don’t know how you I have no

378
00:23:29,144 –> 00:23:31,965
idea. I I I mean, to your point, like, I

379
00:23:32,825 –> 00:23:34,605
I have no idea how

380
00:23:41,080 –> 00:23:43,659
I have no idea how you preserve tradition and culture,

381
00:23:47,799 –> 00:23:51,639
walking up ill against everything that you see in

382
00:23:51,639 –> 00:23:54,415
the dominant structure. Right?

383
00:23:55,195 –> 00:23:58,635
Because to your, you know, or maybe not to your point, but the fact

384
00:23:58,635 –> 00:24:02,395
is, like, all all kids, regardless of ethnic or

385
00:24:02,395 –> 00:24:05,855
racial makeup, all have access to iPhones. They’re all on the Internet.

386
00:24:06,235 –> 00:24:08,910
Yep. And so the great flattening,

387
00:24:10,170 –> 00:24:13,930
that occurred or that began to occur in our generation has just

388
00:24:13,930 –> 00:24:17,210
has just continued to steamroll, you know, across the,

389
00:24:17,450 –> 00:24:21,230
across the generations, which I think that’s one of the reasons why

390
00:24:22,295 –> 00:24:26,054
Erna Lapointe, wrote this book or or maybe dictated

391
00:24:26,054 –> 00:24:29,174
this book, and I wanna talk a little bit about that. But I also think

392
00:24:29,174 –> 00:24:32,155
that it’s why he considered it to be very important

393
00:24:32,855 –> 00:24:36,650
to get this down, because

394
00:24:37,110 –> 00:24:40,950
there’s there’s something to be said

395
00:24:40,950 –> 00:24:44,790
for it being in the written word versus being in an oral

396
00:24:44,790 –> 00:24:48,150
tradition because an oral tradition could just fritter away as oral traditions, by the way,

397
00:24:48,150 –> 00:24:51,934
have done across the globe, because once the people’s voices

398
00:24:51,934 –> 00:24:55,375
are gone, then then what is there left to,

399
00:24:55,774 –> 00:24:58,514
what is there left to say? Right.

400
00:25:00,815 –> 00:25:04,500
Okay. Back to the book. Back to Sitting Bull, his life and legacy. I wanna

401
00:25:04,500 –> 00:25:07,880
pick up a little bit with, earning his name. So,

402
00:25:11,220 –> 00:25:13,779
and I’m gonna refer to him as Sitting Bull just for the for the for

403
00:25:13,779 –> 00:25:16,935
the moment here. Well, jumping badger, actually. I’m going to I’m gonna do this.

404
00:25:17,895 –> 00:25:21,675
So returns again is jumping badger’s, father,

405
00:25:21,735 –> 00:25:25,575
and returns again approached his brother 4 horns. 4 horns

406
00:25:25,575 –> 00:25:29,255
took jumping badger underneath his wing at around 7 years

407
00:25:29,255 –> 00:25:33,039
old, And then jumping badger had

408
00:25:33,039 –> 00:25:36,580
a number of different experiences, that demonstrated

409
00:25:36,799 –> 00:25:40,559
his compassion, and his wise behavior both with his

410
00:25:40,559 –> 00:25:44,320
peers, and with into the space of

411
00:25:44,320 –> 00:25:47,835
hunting, which was important to the, the Lakota,

412
00:25:50,535 –> 00:25:54,375
and in engaging with, his mother,

413
00:25:54,375 –> 00:25:57,735
which I’m gonna talk a little bit about the the family structure here too, but

414
00:25:57,735 –> 00:26:00,235
engaging with his mother and his teepee, by the way.

415
00:26:01,470 –> 00:26:05,010
Jumpy badger, later later Sitting Bull,

416
00:26:05,230 –> 00:26:08,610
when he got married, I marked that chapter up extensively.

417
00:26:09,390 –> 00:26:12,610
And I was talking with my wife about it, and I said,

418
00:26:13,665 –> 00:26:17,345
I said, this is why this is why polygamy, regardless of

419
00:26:17,345 –> 00:26:20,865
culture, does not work. I don’t I don’t care. I mean,

420
00:26:20,865 –> 00:26:24,465
like, I know you don’t wanna read the, the

421
00:26:24,465 –> 00:26:28,220
Caucasian man’s book, but read their book because it doesn’t work out in their

422
00:26:28,220 –> 00:26:31,980
book either. It doesn’t it doesn’t work out. There’s a reason

423
00:26:31,980 –> 00:26:32,640
for this.

424
00:26:35,980 –> 00:26:39,375
And so, so he’s got this compassion.

425
00:26:39,434 –> 00:26:43,135
Right? And he’s got jumping ball. He’s got this compassion. He’s got this generosity.

426
00:26:43,995 –> 00:26:44,495
And,

427
00:26:48,315 –> 00:26:51,915
well, it’s important how all this factors into getting his name. So in the chapter

428
00:26:51,915 –> 00:26:55,720
earning his name, it says this returns again, Jumping Badger’s father was

429
00:26:55,720 –> 00:26:59,180
a deeply spiritual man and had the ability to communicate with the 4 legged.

430
00:26:59,880 –> 00:27:03,180
One time, around the time Jumping Badger killed his first buffalo,

431
00:27:03,640 –> 00:27:07,405
returns again was part of a scouting group looking for buffalo. The

432
00:27:07,405 –> 00:27:10,765
group had camped for the night when a big white buffalo bull suddenly appeared at

433
00:27:10,765 –> 00:27:14,545
the edge of campfire. The scouting party was startled, and they scattered

434
00:27:14,605 –> 00:27:17,965
except for returns again. The

435
00:27:17,965 –> 00:27:21,660
buffalo bull reared up on its haunches and bellowed as he stomped down

436
00:27:21,660 –> 00:27:25,040
on his fore hooves. He did this 4 times and then turned and disappeared

437
00:27:25,260 –> 00:27:29,100
into the night. The rest of the scouts returned to the fire

438
00:27:29,100 –> 00:27:32,300
wondering about the reason the bull did this. Returns again said the bull had come

439
00:27:32,300 –> 00:27:35,725
to give him a gift. The gift was four names the buffalo had

440
00:27:35,725 –> 00:27:39,485
bellowed. The first name was Tatanka Iotake. The

441
00:27:39,485 –> 00:27:43,185
second was Tatanka Ska. The third was Tatanka Wajila.

442
00:27:43,485 –> 00:27:46,785
The 4th was Tatanka Wijuha Naji.

443
00:27:47,510 –> 00:27:51,030
The names were Buffalo Bowl Sits Down, Sitting Bowl, Jumping

444
00:27:51,030 –> 00:27:54,870
Bull, 1 Bull, and Bull Stands With Crow. I’m sorry. With Cow.

445
00:27:54,870 –> 00:27:58,630
Not Crow. Bull stands with Cow. Returns again told his friends this

446
00:27:58,630 –> 00:28:02,404
was a special blessing and a gift from the Buffalo Nation, and he

447
00:28:02,404 –> 00:28:06,245
took the first name for himself. He said, from this day forward, I will

448
00:28:06,245 –> 00:28:10,085
be known as Tatanka Iotake. And

449
00:28:10,085 –> 00:28:13,684
so this is sort of how jumping

450
00:28:13,684 –> 00:28:17,190
badger sort of wandered I shouldn’t say

451
00:28:17,570 –> 00:28:21,250
wandered. Sort of, this is this is the providence. That that’s the

452
00:28:21,250 –> 00:28:25,090
term I’m looking for. The providence of, of Sitting Bull’s name. And,

453
00:28:27,490 –> 00:28:31,135
he has to go through a series of trials in order to

454
00:28:31,195 –> 00:28:34,255
be recognized as a warrior. And,

455
00:28:36,154 –> 00:28:39,995
he also has to I won’t say live in the shadow of his

456
00:28:39,995 –> 00:28:42,255
father, but he has to he has to

457
00:28:43,640 –> 00:28:47,320
become more than what his father than what his father

458
00:28:47,320 –> 00:28:50,840
is. And he’s going to do that in a in an

459
00:28:50,840 –> 00:28:52,940
interesting, in an interesting way.

460
00:28:55,405 –> 00:28:59,165
He’s going to become a leader. Right? He’s gonna become the leader of the Strong

461
00:28:59,165 –> 00:29:02,684
Heart Society, and he was elevated to a

462
00:29:02,684 –> 00:29:06,385
position in his twenties, because of

463
00:29:06,525 –> 00:29:10,285
how he led and because of how he positioned himself. That was

464
00:29:10,285 –> 00:29:13,690
unusual for a young man of his age

465
00:29:13,690 –> 00:29:14,750
and experience.

466
00:29:17,130 –> 00:29:20,430
Now there’s a challenge

467
00:29:21,370 –> 00:29:21,870
here,

468
00:29:27,275 –> 00:29:28,975
that allowed,

469
00:29:31,035 –> 00:29:32,815
that allowed to talk to

470
00:29:35,115 –> 00:29:38,700
develop a support system around him and not really a challenge, but

471
00:29:38,940 –> 00:29:42,460
an opportunity that was given to allow him to develop a support system around

472
00:29:42,460 –> 00:29:45,919
him, and that is related here.

473
00:29:46,620 –> 00:29:49,500
So in the chapter that says jumping ball, and I’m gonna quote directly from this.

474
00:29:49,500 –> 00:29:52,845
This will set up my next question here for Tom. In the late 18 fifties,

475
00:29:52,845 –> 00:29:56,685
an important event occurred in the family life of Tatanka Iotake. The

476
00:29:56,685 –> 00:30:00,465
Strong Heart Society traveling north of the Missouri River encountered an asinero

477
00:30:00,845 –> 00:30:04,660
an Assiniboine camp. It

478
00:30:04,660 –> 00:30:08,500
was a single family camped on the riverbank, and the Strongheart Warriors surprised the family

479
00:30:08,500 –> 00:30:11,300
members. The family attempted to defend its camp, but it was no match for the

480
00:30:11,300 –> 00:30:14,840
warriors who wiped out the whole family except for one young boy.

481
00:30:15,460 –> 00:30:19,060
He was about 11 years old, still with only a child’s bow and

482
00:30:19,060 –> 00:30:22,675
arrows. Even so, he kept attempting to shoot at the warriors.

483
00:30:23,375 –> 00:30:26,975
The warriors decided to wait for Titaka Iotake to arrive and let him

484
00:30:26,975 –> 00:30:29,475
decide the fate of this bold and desperate child.

485
00:30:30,975 –> 00:30:34,590
When Titaka Iotake arrived and dismounted his horse, the

486
00:30:34,590 –> 00:30:38,350
young hohei, seized his only chance to survive. He ran to the strong

487
00:30:38,350 –> 00:30:42,029
hearted leader, embraced him around the waist, and pleaded with him saying, big brother,

488
00:30:42,029 –> 00:30:45,804
save me. Though the boy could not have known it, he spoke

489
00:30:45,804 –> 00:30:49,404
directly to the heart of Totanka Iyotake. He just finished

490
00:30:49,404 –> 00:30:53,245
warning the death of his firstborn son. In addition, he himself was

491
00:30:53,245 –> 00:30:56,304
an only son. He did not have any younger brothers. Totake

492
00:30:57,340 –> 00:31:00,139
told the warriors he wanted to spare the boy’s life and that he wished to

493
00:31:00,139 –> 00:31:03,000
take him as his brother. The

494
00:31:04,139 –> 00:31:07,659
request to make the little, his

495
00:31:07,659 –> 00:31:11,360
brother was brought in front of the elders since it would require a

496
00:31:27,380 –> 00:31:31,140
The purpose of the Hunka Yaw Bay is for the Lakota to make relatives among

497
00:31:31,140 –> 00:31:34,660
warring tribes, to eliminate wars, and create peace among the

498
00:31:34,660 –> 00:31:38,500
nations. Because of this, it is a serious undertaking. Those

499
00:31:38,500 –> 00:31:42,180
who have a Hunka relationship have deliberately chosen to be responsible for each

500
00:31:42,180 –> 00:31:45,835
other. Their ties are deeper and even more important than the relationship between

501
00:31:45,835 –> 00:31:49,675
blood kin. The elders examined and debated the issue to make sure both

502
00:31:49,675 –> 00:31:52,415
Tatanka, Iotake, and the young Asseniboine

503
00:31:53,115 –> 00:31:56,680
desired desired the hunka. And so they go

504
00:31:56,680 –> 00:31:57,900
through the ceremony,

505
00:32:00,600 –> 00:32:04,220
and, and they become, they become bonded

506
00:32:04,440 –> 00:32:06,940
together. And

507
00:32:08,280 –> 00:32:12,024
the and after soon after this

508
00:32:12,024 –> 00:32:14,284
happens, Tatanka Iotake’s,

509
00:32:15,544 –> 00:32:19,325
father passes away and they engage in the ceremony

510
00:32:19,465 –> 00:32:22,125
of what’s called the keeping of soul.

511
00:32:23,600 –> 00:32:26,900
So the reason I’m bringing this up is because

512
00:32:28,400 –> 00:32:31,860
we’re talking initially about passages and transitions from

513
00:32:32,320 –> 00:32:35,920
childhood into into adulthood. But then there’s these other

514
00:32:35,920 –> 00:32:39,554
passages that are marked in, to talk

515
00:32:39,554 –> 00:32:43,315
to your talk his life that set him up

516
00:32:43,315 –> 00:32:43,815
for

517
00:32:47,635 –> 00:32:50,115
well, I can’t really tell. I can’t really tell if they set him up for

518
00:32:50,115 –> 00:32:53,870
for future success or future failure. Like, I can’t. Actually,

519
00:32:53,870 –> 00:32:57,149
you could probably make the argument of both. Okay. Yeah. So that was one of

520
00:32:57,149 –> 00:33:00,990
the that was sort of my question is is there’s

521
00:33:00,990 –> 00:33:03,789
a sense of and maybe it’s because I know the history and I know what’s

522
00:33:03,789 –> 00:33:06,990
going to happen next. Like, I know what the clearing at the end of this

523
00:33:06,990 –> 00:33:10,705
path is. And so I’m not coming to the material pure. I mean,

524
00:33:10,705 –> 00:33:13,685
we’ve read bury my heart and wounded knee. We know what happens. Right?

525
00:33:16,625 –> 00:33:20,305
But there’s a sense of, I don’t know,

526
00:33:20,305 –> 00:33:23,045
tragedy to to to these transitions.

527
00:33:23,950 –> 00:33:27,790
And is that something that I don’t know.

528
00:33:27,790 –> 00:33:31,630
Is that is that what is that the appropriate kind of sense to

529
00:33:31,630 –> 00:33:35,150
take from from from thinking about these

530
00:33:35,150 –> 00:33:37,890
transitions, or or is there something more there?

531
00:33:39,085 –> 00:33:42,605
I think it’s a lot deeper than just

532
00:33:42,605 –> 00:33:46,125
simply success and failure or tragedy or, you

533
00:33:46,125 –> 00:33:49,965
know, comedy and tragedy, so, you know, whatever. So the the theater versions

534
00:33:49,965 –> 00:33:53,405
of it. But I I think it’s a lot deeper than that. I think that

535
00:33:53,485 –> 00:33:55,960
you know, because there are

536
00:33:57,380 –> 00:34:00,740
there are versions of that ceremony that are throughout the country. I mean, they’re called

537
00:34:00,740 –> 00:34:04,340
a little bit different depending on which tribal affiliation you’re talking about, but the sentiment

538
00:34:04,340 –> 00:34:07,780
is always there. And every just about every tribal affiliation across the

539
00:34:07,780 –> 00:34:10,925
continent has had some form of that ceremony.

540
00:34:11,225 –> 00:34:15,005
Mhmm. For me for me, that ceremony, I believe,

541
00:34:15,705 –> 00:34:19,465
goes way deep. It it’s it’s almost

542
00:34:19,465 –> 00:34:22,364
like removing the barriers of emotion

543
00:34:22,824 –> 00:34:26,609
altogether from an from from a person. So somebody alright. I’ll give you

544
00:34:26,609 –> 00:34:29,650
an example. Like Mhmm. You and you and I have known each other a couple

545
00:34:29,650 –> 00:34:33,489
of years. Yeah. The level and depth of which we’ve known each

546
00:34:33,489 –> 00:34:37,109
other has increased just through our interactions.

547
00:34:37,889 –> 00:34:41,665
Right. Yeah. If we ever got to a point where we wanted to go

548
00:34:41,665 –> 00:34:45,425
through the ceremony, then we would have to be willing to take down all

549
00:34:45,425 –> 00:34:49,264
of those emotional walls all at once versus going through

550
00:34:49,264 –> 00:34:52,885
this over the course of however many years that you and I are gonna be

551
00:34:53,079 –> 00:34:56,839
connected in this way. Right? Whether, you know, you and I, I we’ve

552
00:34:56,839 –> 00:35:00,599
we’ve been going on 2, 3 years at this point. Right?

553
00:35:00,599 –> 00:35:03,819
Something like that. Yeah. Yeah. So if some

554
00:35:03,960 –> 00:35:07,099
event or something pushes us

555
00:35:08,025 –> 00:35:11,704
together more rapidly. Mhmm. The the death this

556
00:35:11,704 –> 00:35:15,305
particular case, it’s the death of somebody. He does it later in life where,

557
00:35:16,025 –> 00:35:19,464
he moves his entire village across the Canadian

558
00:35:19,464 –> 00:35:23,244
border, and he goes through a very similar circumstance with,

559
00:35:23,840 –> 00:35:27,380
an enemy tribal affiliation that they were warring with for

560
00:35:27,760 –> 00:35:31,200
generations, but he goes through it with the leader of that group in order

561
00:35:31,200 –> 00:35:35,040
to essentially save his entire village in the move into can into

562
00:35:35,040 –> 00:35:38,805
Canada. I’m oversimplifying, folks. I I understand. So if you’ve read the book,

563
00:35:38,805 –> 00:35:42,185
hopefully, you don’t under you you know what I’m trying to get at here. But

564
00:35:42,725 –> 00:35:46,565
it’s these events in life that that are catalysts for

565
00:35:46,565 –> 00:35:49,829
this particular ceremony. Those events

566
00:35:50,369 –> 00:35:53,810
matter. It’s so in this particular case where you have a young boy

567
00:35:53,810 –> 00:35:57,569
who’s essentially trying to save his own skin, but

568
00:35:57,569 –> 00:36:01,250
he’s doing it in in what we would consider the right way. To your point,

569
00:36:01,250 –> 00:36:04,875
he he goes right to the the person that they’re thinking is the leader.

570
00:36:05,335 –> 00:36:08,775
I, I call you brother now at this point because I got nothing

571
00:36:08,775 –> 00:36:12,535
left. And now I expect you know, my expectation of you is

572
00:36:12,535 –> 00:36:16,135
different than what your expectation of me was when you first drove up. Right? When

573
00:36:16,135 –> 00:36:19,870
you first drove up. So if

574
00:36:19,870 –> 00:36:22,910
if you’re looking again, I I I take this back to our relationship and knowing

575
00:36:22,910 –> 00:36:26,510
each other for a few years. If some catalyst were to happen to

576
00:36:26,510 –> 00:36:30,190
push us closer together more rapidly, and we

577
00:36:30,190 –> 00:36:33,995
wanted to go through this, this ceremony, you would have to be willing or

578
00:36:33,995 –> 00:36:37,835
we would have to be willing to allow all of those guards that we typically

579
00:36:37,835 –> 00:36:41,675
put up on a very regular basis, even with our own family, by

580
00:36:41,675 –> 00:36:45,275
by the way. So you you may have you may have you may wanna go

581
00:36:45,275 –> 00:36:48,819
through this, ceremony even with a cousin or an

582
00:36:48,819 –> 00:36:52,359
uncle or something like that because you want the walls removed. You want

583
00:36:52,579 –> 00:36:56,099
the closeness to be more, deeper than just

584
00:36:56,099 –> 00:36:59,380
superficial or just surface level. So it’s

585
00:36:59,780 –> 00:37:03,519
it it it kinda goes back to I remember hearing

586
00:37:03,519 –> 00:37:06,895
when I was a kid a lot of people talking about, this thing like blood

587
00:37:06,895 –> 00:37:10,275
brothers. Right? You cut each other open. You become blood brothers.

588
00:37:10,655 –> 00:37:14,415
And what does that mean in that sense? I

589
00:37:14,415 –> 00:37:17,375
have no idea, but I know what it means in our sense here as an

590
00:37:17,455 –> 00:37:21,030
in the native community, And I wouldn’t I wouldn’t just go do that with

591
00:37:21,030 –> 00:37:24,790
anybody. Now now knowing now knowing

592
00:37:24,790 –> 00:37:28,550
what I know and and and forget all the, you know, blood borne pathogens

593
00:37:28,550 –> 00:37:32,325
and all that other BS that can possibly happen. I understand that’s a different

594
00:37:32,485 –> 00:37:36,005
a completely different, you know, conversation. But the reality of it

595
00:37:36,005 –> 00:37:39,625
is that is also the level of trust you’re putting into that person

596
00:37:40,085 –> 00:37:43,710
if if you’re going through some of these, ceremonies. And and there

597
00:37:43,710 –> 00:37:47,410
are are parts of the country that it’s not a simple passing of a pipe.

598
00:37:47,630 –> 00:37:50,930
There are sacrifices of flesh. There are sacrifices

599
00:37:51,150 –> 00:37:54,910
of, monetary values. And I don’t mean literally

600
00:37:54,910 –> 00:37:58,585
you’re handing somebody a $100 bill. I’m talking about personal monetary

601
00:37:58,585 –> 00:38:02,345
values, whether it’s, your own, I think there

602
00:38:02,345 –> 00:38:06,185
was a a a part in Sitting Bull’s life where his father

603
00:38:06,185 –> 00:38:09,945
gifted him a buffalo shield that was Yes. Originally his. So

604
00:38:10,250 –> 00:38:14,030
Yes. You know, so that that kind of right right right of passage.

605
00:38:14,089 –> 00:38:16,650
I believe it was the same time frame that he gave him his first eagle

606
00:38:16,650 –> 00:38:20,250
feather. So, if I’m remembering correctly, so when I

607
00:38:20,250 –> 00:38:23,849
say, you know, monetary, that’s what I’m talking about. I’m talking about

608
00:38:23,849 –> 00:38:27,505
personal monetization where you’re giving and or

609
00:38:27,505 –> 00:38:30,565
gifting somebody something that’s of extreme value to yourself.

610
00:38:31,905 –> 00:38:35,665
Giving somebody you know, if if I were to

611
00:38:35,665 –> 00:38:39,490
give somebody one of my eagle feathers, I

612
00:38:39,490 –> 00:38:43,110
think that would have to there there would have to be something significant

613
00:38:43,330 –> 00:38:46,870
to happen for me to give one of those away. So Yeah.

614
00:38:47,490 –> 00:38:51,250
So, again, in these types of environments, if I’m gonna go through that process though,

615
00:38:51,250 –> 00:38:54,625
if I found somebody that I wanted to go through that that ceremonial

616
00:38:54,845 –> 00:38:58,365
process with, giving up my eagle feather would be very easy for me to

617
00:38:58,365 –> 00:39:01,565
do. That’s that’s kind of the point I’m trying to make here, that some of

618
00:39:01,565 –> 00:39:05,405
those guarded things, some of those things that you keep so close to the

619
00:39:05,405 –> 00:39:09,025
vest that you would prefer not anybody know them about you at all,

620
00:39:09,540 –> 00:39:12,900
those things go away when you go through these ceremonies. And both parties have to

621
00:39:12,900 –> 00:39:16,740
be willing and open to take the, all the good with the bad

622
00:39:16,740 –> 00:39:20,200
because it’s not all just, you know, you know,

623
00:39:20,260 –> 00:39:24,105
roses and and, you know, rainbows and roses. You also take on some

624
00:39:24,105 –> 00:39:27,705
of the baggage for that person and you share the the pain of of

625
00:39:27,705 –> 00:39:31,545
whatever is going through with that that person’s life and, you

626
00:39:31,545 –> 00:39:35,305
know, in future. Like, you take on a lot of future things. This

627
00:39:35,305 –> 00:39:38,490
is this is not a simple thing. I just wanna really just try to emphasize

628
00:39:38,490 –> 00:39:42,170
to the people. Yeah. This is not a simple thing that you just

629
00:39:42,170 –> 00:39:45,450
pass the pipe, smoke the pipe, everybody’s happy, and you go out. Now we’re brothers.

630
00:39:45,450 –> 00:39:49,210
No. It’s not that simple. It’s much more in-depth than that, and you

631
00:39:49,210 –> 00:39:52,525
have essen essentially make yourself extraordinarily

632
00:39:52,825 –> 00:39:56,505
vulnerable to that person. So you have to make sure you

633
00:39:56,505 –> 00:40:00,345
understand what you’re getting yourself into before you say yes on both both parts,

634
00:40:00,345 –> 00:40:03,885
on both parties’ sides. So

635
00:40:04,025 –> 00:40:05,405
in thinking about

636
00:40:08,720 –> 00:40:12,160
these types of ceremonies or these types of not even the ceremonies, but these types

637
00:40:12,160 –> 00:40:13,700
of transitions. Right?

638
00:40:20,125 –> 00:40:23,725
If you’re going to engage in something like that, you have to meet it. You

639
00:40:23,725 –> 00:40:27,405
know? And not only do you have to meet it, but you have to meet

640
00:40:27,405 –> 00:40:30,945
it at a level that is more than just a casual

641
00:40:31,245 –> 00:40:34,980
transactional level. Right? For sure. This

642
00:40:34,980 –> 00:40:38,420
is not buying a pack of gum at the grocery store. This is

643
00:40:38,420 –> 00:40:42,260
not, It’s also not not borrowing a tool and never

644
00:40:42,260 –> 00:40:45,885
returning it. Right? Like, they were you know, you you might lend

645
00:40:45,885 –> 00:40:49,645
somebody you might lend somebody a tool or money. And

646
00:40:49,645 –> 00:40:52,445
if you get it back, great. And if you don’t, you’re okay with it. You’re

647
00:40:52,445 –> 00:40:56,045
not gonna let it ruin your relationship. Right? Right. It it it’s

648
00:40:56,045 –> 00:40:59,425
it’s way beyond that too. Like, it’s it’s it just goes way beyond

649
00:41:00,099 –> 00:41:03,000
the simplicity of what we’re thinking. It’s it’s

650
00:41:06,339 –> 00:41:07,000
it’s it’s

651
00:41:11,060 –> 00:41:14,420
it’s the principle of family, but but at

652
00:41:14,420 –> 00:41:18,075
a at an even more grounded level than

653
00:41:18,075 –> 00:41:21,375
that because and and English is terrible for these kinds of terms,

654
00:41:21,835 –> 00:41:25,275
for for what it is that we’re For sure. We’re seeking to get. You know?

655
00:41:25,275 –> 00:41:27,675
The, you know, the thing I always I always say, and I don’t know. It’s

656
00:41:27,675 –> 00:41:30,359
been a while since I’ve said it on this podcast, but, you know, we have

657
00:41:30,359 –> 00:41:34,200
one word for love in the English language, and yet that covers

658
00:41:34,200 –> 00:41:38,039
a multitude of sins. Right? We have one

659
00:41:38,039 –> 00:41:41,799
word for family, and yet that that’s supposed to

660
00:41:41,799 –> 00:41:45,255
cover a multitude of meanings as well. And it doesn’t because it’s

661
00:41:45,494 –> 00:41:48,795
it’s it’s it’s hyper it’s hyper contextual,

662
00:41:50,535 –> 00:41:53,894
and it’s hyper engaged just as you as you just

663
00:41:53,894 –> 00:41:57,734
said. That’s why we add words to it. Right? We have our family.

664
00:41:57,734 –> 00:42:01,240
We have our extended family. We have, like, we add words to it to try

665
00:42:01,240 –> 00:42:04,440
to make it mean other things. Other things. Yeah. Or to try to or to

666
00:42:04,440 –> 00:42:07,640
try or not even just try to make that mean on things. Try to try

667
00:42:07,640 –> 00:42:11,240
to bolster it. Try to give it some some meat on those better define it.

668
00:42:11,240 –> 00:42:12,940
Yeah. Better define it. Right.

669
00:42:15,375 –> 00:42:18,835
There’s also this idea, and this is something that that cuts through

670
00:42:19,615 –> 00:42:23,295
not only all of what city bowl experience, but

671
00:42:23,295 –> 00:42:26,975
it it cuts through even what we read about in episode number

672
00:42:26,975 –> 00:42:30,260
79 and bury my heart at wounded knee. There’s

673
00:42:31,040 –> 00:42:32,580
a sense of interweaving,

674
00:42:35,760 –> 00:42:39,060
among native tribes

675
00:42:39,840 –> 00:42:43,220
and native tribal cultures. That is

676
00:42:44,235 –> 00:42:47,615
sort of an anathema to people who are industrialized.

677
00:42:48,395 –> 00:42:51,915
Like we live, we live in an industrial we’re well post we’re post

678
00:42:51,915 –> 00:42:55,535
industrialized culture. Right? So scientific materialism,

679
00:42:55,915 –> 00:42:58,255
whether you like it or not has won the day.

680
00:43:00,190 –> 00:43:02,930
And so we

681
00:43:06,110 –> 00:43:09,710
and by the way, scientific materialism has won the day for a whole variety of

682
00:43:09,710 –> 00:43:13,275
really good reasons. Like, it gave us antibiotics

683
00:43:14,455 –> 00:43:17,975
and it gave us cell phones, and it’s given us this

684
00:43:17,975 –> 00:43:21,495
ability to record this podcast. Now the

685
00:43:21,495 –> 00:43:24,395
downside of that is it’s also given us things like,

686
00:43:26,240 –> 00:43:29,599
pornography and seed oils and all of our foods that make

687
00:43:29,599 –> 00:43:33,280
us fat and sick. You know? Well, I’m just quoting my

688
00:43:33,280 –> 00:43:36,880
wife here because this is what she would say. And, you

689
00:43:36,880 –> 00:43:40,640
know, and and all these other negative things. Right? Nuclear warfare. You know? I mean,

690
00:43:40,640 –> 00:43:43,465
like, it’s given us the these are the downsides, right, of,

691
00:43:44,265 –> 00:43:47,865
of scientific materialism. But no one no

692
00:43:47,865 –> 00:43:51,385
one seriously, anyway. You have a lot of activists who will say a lot of

693
00:43:51,385 –> 00:43:53,645
things, but no one seriously is talking about

694
00:43:54,985 –> 00:43:58,420
regressing backwards to something that is,

695
00:43:58,800 –> 00:44:02,640
you know, pre modern, like, deeply pre modern. We’re we’re all

696
00:44:02,640 –> 00:44:06,400
expecting we’re all expecting some apocalyptic thing to happen to bring us there.

697
00:44:06,400 –> 00:44:09,540
We’re not gonna do it on purpose. Yeah. No one’s gonna do it on purpose.

698
00:44:09,680 –> 00:44:13,120
Right. We’re waiting for the left shoe to fall before you know, we’re just gonna

699
00:44:13,120 –> 00:44:15,955
end up there. Yeah. And we’re just hoping that enough people are ready for it

700
00:44:15,955 –> 00:44:19,635
and understand how to live through it that we that we survive. Right. Because we

701
00:44:19,635 –> 00:44:23,175
don’t wanna fully commit to the pre modern thing because we know how we recognize

702
00:44:23,235 –> 00:44:26,215
in our souls how hard it’s going to be. Exactly.

703
00:44:29,070 –> 00:44:32,850
But the challenge or the struggle and you see this not only in

704
00:44:33,150 –> 00:44:36,750
in in Ernie Lapointe’s rendition of, of his,

705
00:44:37,070 –> 00:44:40,590
of his great grandfather’s life, but you see it in a lot of other different

706
00:44:40,590 –> 00:44:44,195
places in our culture. The fact of the matter is

707
00:44:44,335 –> 00:44:47,855
we want to go back and get some of the traditions from those pre modern

708
00:44:47,855 –> 00:44:51,535
places and, and bring them forward. And yet

709
00:44:51,535 –> 00:44:55,315
we can’t because the underpinnings, the

710
00:44:55,630 –> 00:44:59,150
the things that allowed those, those traditions to

711
00:44:59,150 –> 00:45:02,990
exist have passed into history. And so

712
00:45:02,990 –> 00:45:06,830
maybe that’s the, the touch of tragedy that I’m

713
00:45:06,830 –> 00:45:08,609
feeling. You know, when I read,

714
00:45:10,535 –> 00:45:13,435
when I read this this story and I read how

715
00:45:14,135 –> 00:45:17,655
this how this is laid out for,

716
00:45:17,975 –> 00:45:21,735
for Sitting Bull. There’s also

717
00:45:21,735 –> 00:45:25,240
a sense and it’s it’s something else that I picked up from the book. And

718
00:45:25,240 –> 00:45:28,119
I wanna talk about wives and children in a minute. We’re gonna gonna talk about

719
00:45:28,119 –> 00:45:31,960
that, and then we’ll get into you know, I I wanna talk about his vision

720
00:45:31,960 –> 00:45:34,059
quest, which I made some notes on that,

721
00:45:35,495 –> 00:45:39,115
and, and talk about his first encounter with the Americans today.

722
00:45:39,335 –> 00:45:42,695
But one of the points that Ernie makes

723
00:45:42,855 –> 00:45:45,275
and let me see if I marked it here.

724
00:45:49,170 –> 00:45:50,550
Let’s see.

725
00:45:53,170 –> 00:45:56,790
I almost did this, podcast with Mike Estawi on 2, by the way.

726
00:45:56,930 –> 00:45:58,390
Oh, well, that would be

727
00:46:00,930 –> 00:46:04,744
that’d be awesome. I was gonna wear it today. There we

728
00:46:04,744 –> 00:46:08,505
go. That’s awesome. I was gonna wear it, and then

729
00:46:08,505 –> 00:46:12,345
I decided, nah. Everyone’s seen me so far in my regular clothes. I’m

730
00:46:12,345 –> 00:46:14,605
just gonna keep it simple. Just keep it simple.

731
00:46:20,350 –> 00:46:21,730
Oh, where is it?

732
00:46:29,755 –> 00:46:33,455
Yeah. Talked about enrollment. Hold on. I’m trying to find

733
00:46:34,635 –> 00:46:38,395
the point that he makes about the ancestors because

734
00:46:38,395 –> 00:46:42,075
it’s it’s here we go. Yes. Here we go. So it’s at the

735
00:46:42,075 –> 00:46:45,910
end of the book. And La La Pointe says this, and it’s sort of

736
00:46:45,910 –> 00:46:49,430
in the, in the afterward called living the legacy. And this was one of the

737
00:46:49,430 –> 00:46:52,650
things that jumped out at me. Right. And he talks about sort of

738
00:46:53,349 –> 00:46:57,049
the reception, not sort of the reception that he has received,

739
00:46:58,745 –> 00:47:02,265
from standing rock reservation, which we’ve talked about. We’ve talked about sort

740
00:47:02,265 –> 00:47:06,105
of the the the challenges of reservations, to

741
00:47:06,105 –> 00:47:09,165
put it moderately, in American culture.

742
00:47:10,970 –> 00:47:14,730
And, he talked about how or he talked about how he had

743
00:47:14,730 –> 00:47:18,569
submitted, Ernie did, an application for enrollment at Standing Rock

744
00:47:18,569 –> 00:47:21,710
in 1997, and then there was some

745
00:47:23,130 –> 00:47:26,325
dispute. And it was not a dispute between,

746
00:47:27,585 –> 00:47:31,265
Ernie and, you know, the federal government or something like

747
00:47:31,265 –> 00:47:34,625
that. It was a dispute between the standing

748
00:47:34,625 –> 00:47:37,525
reservation government, I guess,

749
00:47:38,305 –> 00:47:41,880
and Ernie, and talking about who Sitting Bull

750
00:47:41,880 –> 00:47:45,640
was and what he was. And it says here at the

751
00:47:45,640 –> 00:47:48,940
end, in those years, and I quote,

752
00:47:52,805 –> 00:47:55,525
that was when Ernie decided there would be no way to heal the anchor at

753
00:47:55,525 –> 00:47:58,645
this time. He has said repeatedly that he is still open to any of the

754
00:47:58,645 –> 00:48:02,245
hostility, but it will require an apology for those who have wronged his great

755
00:48:02,245 –> 00:48:06,085
grandfather. When a Lakota takes the life of another Lakota, he is

756
00:48:06,085 –> 00:48:09,900
banished from the tribe. If this individual survives the elements and the

757
00:48:09,900 –> 00:48:13,380
4 legged and he returns to the tribe, he returns with gifts to the family

758
00:48:13,380 –> 00:48:17,020
of the person he killed. He also will bring a bladder full of

759
00:48:17,020 –> 00:48:20,744
water because that is the amount of tears that will be shed. Then he takes

760
00:48:20,744 –> 00:48:24,105
the place of the person he killed, but he is also required to take care

761
00:48:24,105 –> 00:48:27,785
of his own family. What he did will create a difficult life for this

762
00:48:27,785 –> 00:48:31,224
individual for the rest of his life. Most people do not survive after they have

763
00:48:31,224 –> 00:48:34,900
been banished. In those years when the Lakota accepted the

764
00:48:34,900 –> 00:48:38,660
role of being Sioux Indians as was as in the case of the betrayers

765
00:48:38,660 –> 00:48:42,340
of Tatanka Iotake, they were not banished. What

766
00:48:42,340 –> 00:48:45,240
they did is this is it. They cursed their descendants.

767
00:48:46,100 –> 00:48:49,674
This curse is 4 generations long. Their descendants cannot

768
00:48:49,674 –> 00:48:53,275
perform the sacred ceremonies nor have, kanupa that

769
00:48:53,275 –> 00:48:56,875
is Wakan. It is simple to ask for forgiveness of what their

770
00:48:56,875 –> 00:49:00,635
ancestors did, yet they find it hard to do. Either these people do not

771
00:49:00,635 –> 00:49:04,430
know of this curse or they are just ashamed of their ancestors. The spirits

772
00:49:04,430 –> 00:49:08,109
say these are the people with quote unquote blood on their hands. And if they

773
00:49:08,109 –> 00:49:11,869
do not ask for forgiveness for their ancestors after the 4th generation

774
00:49:11,869 –> 00:49:14,609
is gone, they cannot ever perform the sacred ceremonies.

775
00:49:15,789 –> 00:49:19,395
This is one of the reasons the Lakota culture will cease to

776
00:49:19,395 –> 00:49:22,775
exist. It has been said before the healing begins,

777
00:49:23,235 –> 00:49:25,655
you first have to feel the pain.

778
00:49:27,795 –> 00:49:31,415
And I wrote in the corner there, Jesus said, repent

779
00:49:33,119 –> 00:49:36,819
and be saved, not

780
00:49:36,960 –> 00:49:40,579
I’m just gonna give you forgiveness. No. No. No. You gotta repent first,

781
00:49:41,039 –> 00:49:43,059
and repenting is always about pain.

782
00:49:45,144 –> 00:49:47,644
But we’ll leave that point aside for just a moment.

783
00:49:48,825 –> 00:49:52,585
This idea of, and it gets back to this, to what

784
00:49:52,585 –> 00:49:56,265
we were talking about, about, the

785
00:49:56,265 –> 00:49:59,890
binding of people together. It’s not just the binding of the people together of

786
00:49:59,890 –> 00:50:03,650
1 generation. We’re talking about intergenerational ideals. Talk a little

787
00:50:03,650 –> 00:50:07,410
bit about that because again, we don’t have, we don’t really have

788
00:50:07,410 –> 00:50:11,115
a, we don’t have a conception of that. That blows away the postmodern mind because

789
00:50:11,115 –> 00:50:14,555
we’re individualistic along with being scientific materialists or

790
00:50:14,555 –> 00:50:17,615
individualistic. Like I don’t have any.

791
00:50:20,155 –> 00:50:22,875
Would it be nice if my mom clapped for me all the time or to

792
00:50:22,875 –> 00:50:25,595
your point, your mom? Sure. It would be nice. But at the end of the

793
00:50:25,595 –> 00:50:29,330
day, like, I’m an individual. Right?

794
00:50:29,330 –> 00:50:32,930
Like, I gotta be responsible for my family. And then when I’m dead and

795
00:50:32,930 –> 00:50:36,550
gone, that’s it. Like, the door is just closed.

796
00:50:36,690 –> 00:50:40,370
Right? I can do as much as I could possibly think of

797
00:50:40,370 –> 00:50:43,495
doing for my children in my time when I’m alive.

798
00:50:45,075 –> 00:50:48,675
But I know that in 2 generations, my name is gonna fall out of their

799
00:50:48,675 –> 00:50:52,355
memory and 4 generations forget it. Like, I

800
00:50:52,355 –> 00:50:55,415
don’t ever think about my great great grandfather. Like, never.

801
00:50:56,250 –> 00:50:59,450
And I know the person existed. I don’t even, I will be blunt. I don’t

802
00:50:59,450 –> 00:51:03,070
even know his name. He was for sure. A slave

803
00:51:04,730 –> 00:51:07,310
probably in the early

804
00:51:09,545 –> 00:51:12,765
19th century, probably somewhere in

805
00:51:13,385 –> 00:51:15,385
what at the time would have been the,

806
00:51:17,224 –> 00:51:20,664
the Kentucky Ohio territory, probably somewhere

807
00:51:20,664 –> 00:51:24,400
there. But beyond that, at least on my father’s side, on my

808
00:51:24,400 –> 00:51:27,920
mother’s side, who knows? But I don’t, I don’t, I don’t know that

809
00:51:27,920 –> 00:51:30,580
person’s name. I have zero connection to them.

810
00:51:32,160 –> 00:51:35,920
So walk me through sort of how this works, because those bonds seem to be

811
00:51:35,920 –> 00:51:39,665
a lot tighter in not just in Lakota culture, but in

812
00:51:39,665 –> 00:51:43,445
Native American culture overall. So we

813
00:51:44,385 –> 00:51:48,145
I don’t think I don’t think what you’re saying is

814
00:51:48,145 –> 00:51:51,640
far off in in one sense, which

815
00:51:51,640 –> 00:51:55,480
is it’s not about so

816
00:51:55,480 –> 00:51:59,020
for me, it’s not about my name. Right? Like, so generationally

817
00:51:59,240 –> 00:52:01,320
speaking, it’s not about if if

818
00:52:02,840 –> 00:52:06,255
we’re taught that we are responsible for the next 7

819
00:52:06,255 –> 00:52:09,875
generations. Right? So we’re we’re taught that. So my responsibility

820
00:52:10,654 –> 00:52:14,255
goes deeper than to just my kids. It’s their

821
00:52:14,255 –> 00:52:18,095
children’s children’s children, so on and so forth. So but

822
00:52:18,095 –> 00:52:21,650
by to your point, by the time that 4th generation pops

823
00:52:21,650 –> 00:52:25,490
up, they’re not gonna remember my name. I don’t feel

824
00:52:25,490 –> 00:52:28,710
like that’s as important as if they remember

825
00:52:30,130 –> 00:52:33,650
the teachings. That’s more important to me than them

826
00:52:33,650 –> 00:52:37,305
remembering my name. Okay. So so for it’s

827
00:52:37,305 –> 00:52:40,665
it’s it’s kinda like and I

828
00:52:40,665 –> 00:52:43,805
I I don’t have grandkids yet, but

829
00:52:44,425 –> 00:52:48,105
to your point to your point a few seconds ago, you know, teaching your kids

830
00:52:48,680 –> 00:52:52,360
it’s not just about teaching your kids simply. It’s

831
00:52:52,360 –> 00:52:56,040
about teaching your kids well enough that you feel it’s it’s a it’s a

832
00:52:56,120 –> 00:52:59,400
let’s let’s bring it back to the leadership lessons from the great books here for

833
00:52:59,400 –> 00:53:03,100
a second, Asan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s not about teaching them

834
00:53:03,885 –> 00:53:07,645
the this one. It’s about training the trainer. Right? Right. You’re basically

835
00:53:07,725 –> 00:53:11,325
you’re essentially so the way I look at my kids and my

836
00:53:11,325 –> 00:53:14,945
responsibility is to get them to the point where they can

837
00:53:15,165 –> 00:53:19,000
do these things so rhythmically. The muscle memory

838
00:53:19,000 –> 00:53:22,440
is so easy for them that it’s going to be easy for them to teach

839
00:53:22,440 –> 00:53:26,119
the next generation to do the same things. Right? Okay. Yep.

840
00:53:26,119 –> 00:53:29,740
Take a ceremony, for example, a particular ceremony that we find valuable.

841
00:53:30,825 –> 00:53:34,445
It’s my responsibility to make sure that my children know that

842
00:53:34,585 –> 00:53:38,425
ceremony well enough to teach their next generation, to

843
00:53:38,425 –> 00:53:41,865
teach their next generation so that that culture just doesn’t

844
00:53:42,185 –> 00:53:45,545
that ceremony will never die. I need to be able to go to my

845
00:53:45,545 –> 00:53:47,900
grave with a a heart

846
00:53:49,560 –> 00:53:53,320
knowing that at least for the next 7 generations, that ceremony

847
00:53:53,320 –> 00:53:56,599
is not gonna die. And if I do my job right, it’s never gonna die

848
00:53:56,599 –> 00:54:00,405
for an eternity because my my children will

849
00:54:00,405 –> 00:54:03,865
feel the same way I feel, which means the 7 generations

850
00:54:04,005 –> 00:54:07,765
from them will feel it and so on and so forth. Right? So

851
00:54:07,765 –> 00:54:10,905
it’s Okay. It’s a it’s a it’s a connection

852
00:54:11,125 –> 00:54:14,359
to it’s a connection to the,

853
00:54:15,140 –> 00:54:18,740
the that whole I the whole concept of you’re

854
00:54:18,740 –> 00:54:22,200
not it’s not just about you. The whole individual

855
00:54:22,339 –> 00:54:26,085
thing, yes. I get it. Individually, it’s up to

856
00:54:26,085 –> 00:54:29,765
me to learn it. But non individually, it’s also up to me to

857
00:54:29,765 –> 00:54:32,885
teach it. Right. So it’s like so I it’s the

858
00:54:34,645 –> 00:54:38,245
it’s it’s my responsibility as a individual to learn it.

859
00:54:38,245 –> 00:54:41,920
It’s my responsibility as a community member to teach it.

860
00:54:42,220 –> 00:54:45,920
So that’s where the the the separation actually happens. So,

861
00:54:46,060 –> 00:54:49,599
again, going back to the whole train the trainer thing,

862
00:54:49,980 –> 00:54:53,795
if you’re training somebody to the if you’re

863
00:54:53,795 –> 00:54:57,555
training somebody to the point where you want them to go and do

864
00:54:57,555 –> 00:55:01,234
a task and you’re you’re teaching them how to, you know,

865
00:55:01,234 –> 00:55:05,040
pick this up and move it over here, and you’re feel comfortable that they that

866
00:55:05,040 –> 00:55:08,720
they they get down the the the functionality of

867
00:55:08,720 –> 00:55:12,420
of picking this up and moving it over here, and you’re good with it, fine.

868
00:55:12,960 –> 00:55:16,660
Do you think they could train somebody? Maybe not

869
00:55:16,925 –> 00:55:20,285
because they don’t have the trainer mentality. Whatever excuse you give yourself in the back

870
00:55:20,285 –> 00:55:24,045
of your mind, well, that’s the part that we wanna train. Right? We wanna

871
00:55:24,045 –> 00:55:27,724
train the trainer because we want them and expect them to be teaching other people

872
00:55:27,724 –> 00:55:31,359
to do this. It goes beyond just yourself. And the

873
00:55:31,599 –> 00:55:35,280
again, the difference in corporate America is you get paid to be a trainer. We’re

874
00:55:35,280 –> 00:55:38,820
not paying you to teach the next 7 generations. That’s a responsibility

875
00:55:39,040 –> 00:55:41,920
that you take on the day you’re born whether you like it or not. Right.

876
00:55:41,920 –> 00:55:45,460
Yeah. That’s just part of the that’s just part of part of the cultural responsibility.

877
00:55:45,520 –> 00:55:49,265
Now, that being said, I guarantee you there are tribal members that walk away

878
00:55:49,265 –> 00:55:52,945
from that. They don’t feel they’re responsible. They don’t feel the the

879
00:55:53,025 –> 00:55:56,865
they don’t feel the connection to the responsibility. Then they they leave the

880
00:55:56,865 –> 00:56:00,464
reservation or they leave their family units with the or they leave it up to

881
00:56:00,464 –> 00:56:04,240
somebody else. Right? So I have 5 I have 5 children. I guarantee you. I

882
00:56:04,240 –> 00:56:07,700
promise you. At least one of them don’t care.

883
00:56:08,000 –> 00:56:11,839
They don’t care about passing it along. They don’t care about keeping

884
00:56:11,839 –> 00:56:15,619
it intact. At least one of them. I think there’s

885
00:56:16,025 –> 00:56:19,545
2 of them that absolutely care, and they take

886
00:56:19,545 –> 00:56:23,145
it they take it beyond the the the sense of

887
00:56:23,145 –> 00:56:26,825
responsibility. They take it to the point where it it’s a part of

888
00:56:26,825 –> 00:56:30,300
who they are. Right. And then the other 2 are probably somewhere in between.

889
00:56:30,599 –> 00:56:33,980
They feel it. They’re not sure about it yet. I think their minds will shift

890
00:56:34,119 –> 00:56:37,640
as they get a little older or they’re you know, they they start having kids

891
00:56:37,640 –> 00:56:41,400
or whatever. Something will happen that they’ll decide one way or the other on

892
00:56:41,400 –> 00:56:45,135
what they’re gonna do. But I definitely have 2 that it is just part of

893
00:56:45,135 –> 00:56:47,935
their soul. It’s part of their being. I can already see it in them. They

894
00:56:47,935 –> 00:56:51,775
already they already have 2 of my kids have already

895
00:56:51,775 –> 00:56:55,590
been invited to do lectures at colleges. They’ve been invited. So I

896
00:56:55,590 –> 00:56:59,350
know that that’s in them, that they want to be there to to be up

897
00:56:59,590 –> 00:57:03,190
upfront teaching people, you know, and and getting that that level

898
00:57:03,190 –> 00:57:06,890
of, in-depthness to to move forward. So,

899
00:57:07,190 –> 00:57:10,195
you know, it’s it’s it’s a matter of it’s

900
00:57:11,635 –> 00:57:15,095
the way that we talk about it is just different than saying,

901
00:57:15,315 –> 00:57:18,375
oh, we have a family tradition that every year at Thanksgiving,

902
00:57:18,915 –> 00:57:22,619
uncle Ronnie is gonna carve the turkey. Right. Yeah.

903
00:57:22,619 –> 00:57:26,059
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s deeper than that. Like I said, it’s

904
00:57:26,059 –> 00:57:29,680
it’s it’s it’s it’s part of it it it follows

905
00:57:29,900 –> 00:57:32,559
the arc of the

906
00:57:33,420 –> 00:57:37,244
binding of a random person to you at

907
00:57:37,244 –> 00:57:40,765
a deeper level than just merely friendship. Like, it it follows the arc of all

908
00:57:40,765 –> 00:57:44,125
that. Like, one thing layers into the one thing layers into the

909
00:57:44,125 –> 00:57:47,265
other, and then it also

910
00:57:48,045 –> 00:57:51,820
tracks to, oh, what Ernie Lapointe

911
00:57:51,820 –> 00:57:54,960
is trying to do with talking about,

912
00:57:55,660 –> 00:57:59,340
his, his great grandfather and laying

913
00:57:59,340 –> 00:58:00,720
out the

914
00:58:04,545 –> 00:58:07,525
the truth behind the tradition.

915
00:58:07,905 –> 00:58:11,585
Right? Laying out the truth, as it

916
00:58:11,585 –> 00:58:14,725
has been dictated to him, behind

917
00:58:15,800 –> 00:58:19,240
the, the legend, right. That has grown up,

918
00:58:19,560 –> 00:58:22,380
around. Sitting bull. Right.

919
00:58:22,920 –> 00:58:26,440
So one thing follows from another it’s it’s it’s not, it’s

920
00:58:26,440 –> 00:58:29,835
not logically incoherent, nor is it

921
00:58:29,835 –> 00:58:33,275
inconsistent. It it kinda it kinda it’s sort of where you would wind up in

922
00:58:33,275 –> 00:58:35,275
a clearing at the end of the path. Right? Like if you’re gonna go down

923
00:58:35,275 –> 00:58:38,715
that you’re there’s a certain clearing you’re just gonna wind up at if you were

924
00:58:38,715 –> 00:58:42,335
committed to, to going down that, to going down that path. So no, it doesn’t,

925
00:58:42,970 –> 00:58:46,810
it doesn’t sound it doesn’t sound odd to me. It doesn’t it

926
00:58:46,810 –> 00:58:49,950
doesn’t ring false. It rings it rings absolutely true.

927
00:58:54,330 –> 00:58:57,464
So let’s talk a little bit about those generations and how you get them. Let’s

928
00:58:57,464 –> 00:59:01,224
talk a little bit about wives and children. I gotta admit this this

929
00:59:01,224 –> 00:59:04,845
chapter here made it it made me crack up. It did

930
00:59:05,065 –> 00:59:08,665
just for a whole variety of reasons, and I’m going to talk about them maybe

931
00:59:08,665 –> 00:59:09,645
a little bit here.

932
00:59:13,420 –> 00:59:17,180
Back to the book, back to Sitting Bull, his life and legacy by Ernie

933
00:59:17,180 –> 00:59:20,940
Lapointe. Hitaka Iotake showed a maturity and understanding of

934
00:59:20,940 –> 00:59:24,779
life that far exceeded other young men his age. His level of responsibility was

935
00:59:24,779 –> 00:59:28,435
also much higher. He was required to care for his people at many levels. His

936
00:59:28,435 –> 00:59:31,555
position also required him to make wise decisions on behalf of the group, and he’s

937
00:59:31,555 –> 00:59:35,155
responsible for their overall well-being. That’s leadership, by the way,

938
00:59:35,155 –> 00:59:38,855
folks. Chitanka Iyotake needed the help of a wife

939
00:59:39,050 –> 00:59:42,490
to fulfill all the duties of caring for the people. As a result, he was

940
00:59:42,490 –> 00:59:46,330
married while still in his twenties. This was unusual for Lakota men of

941
00:59:46,330 –> 00:59:49,210
that time since they did not consider marriage until a man was in his thirties

942
00:59:49,210 –> 00:59:52,730
or even his forties. The woman he chose to become his wife

943
00:59:52,730 –> 00:59:56,265
was light hair. Now just gonna

944
00:59:56,265 –> 00:59:59,945
pause here for a second. I find it to be interesting that as a culture,

945
00:59:59,945 –> 01:00:02,765
we are transitioning to people getting married later and later.

946
01:00:04,665 –> 01:00:08,280
But not necessarily men because men have always

947
01:00:08,280 –> 01:00:11,880
gotten married whenever they wanted to get married. That’s not been a real

948
01:00:11,880 –> 01:00:15,240
thing. We’re transitioning into women getting married later and

949
01:00:15,240 –> 01:00:19,080
later, which has, which has interesting implications for

950
01:00:19,080 –> 01:00:22,835
childbearing and creating the next, the next infertility and creating

951
01:00:22,835 –> 01:00:26,454
the next generation. Alright. Back to the book.

952
01:00:26,755 –> 01:00:30,194
Living arrangements were made for the married couple living

953
01:00:30,194 –> 01:00:33,474
arrangements for married couples among Lakota were based on the fact that the women owned

954
01:00:33,474 –> 01:00:36,869
the teepee. Women were in charge of the shelter of their families and everything that

955
01:00:36,869 –> 01:00:39,990
went with that. Only if a woman asked a man for help, could he take

956
01:00:39,990 –> 01:00:43,590
a part in these tasks? And when and then he was limited to limited to

957
01:00:43,590 –> 01:00:47,349
a few things like helping put up the teepee or helping with such household

958
01:00:47,349 –> 01:00:51,185
chores as gathering wood or hauling water. When to

959
01:00:51,185 –> 01:00:54,865
Tonka EOTAKA and light hair married, she owned their

960
01:00:54,865 –> 01:00:58,645
home and she would be completely in charge of it. Pause for just a moment.

961
01:00:59,665 –> 01:01:03,365
That’s feminism, by the way, that’s even more important than voting.

962
01:01:06,589 –> 01:01:10,269
We can get into the whole, so most people don’t realize that, you know,

963
01:01:10,269 –> 01:01:13,789
again, they were a matriarchal society except when it came to

964
01:01:13,789 –> 01:01:17,444
essentially one thing, which was war. Which is

965
01:01:17,444 –> 01:01:20,984
war. Right. Well well, for for very

966
01:01:21,684 –> 01:01:25,364
well, anyway. Yes. Yes. And that is something that has

967
01:01:25,444 –> 01:01:28,005
that jumped out to me, and I’ll talk about that maybe in a in a

968
01:01:28,005 –> 01:01:31,740
little bit of your context here coming up. So light hair,

969
01:01:32,440 –> 01:01:36,280
and to Tante Yotake got married. Light hair

970
01:01:36,280 –> 01:01:39,720
bore him his first child, a son. She did not

971
01:01:39,720 –> 01:01:42,060
survive the birth of her son.

972
01:01:44,075 –> 01:01:47,595
And then when a man with a young with young children loses his

973
01:01:47,595 –> 01:01:51,355
wife, you know, immediate family members among the

974
01:01:51,355 –> 01:01:54,895
Lakota, would be there to help care for him and his children.

975
01:01:55,595 –> 01:01:59,270
Now the whole

976
01:01:59,270 –> 01:02:02,810
village would come together to take help, take care of these children.

977
01:02:03,190 –> 01:02:03,690
And,

978
01:02:07,990 –> 01:02:11,735
but that did not not end. That did not prevent the the

979
01:02:11,735 –> 01:02:15,575
man from getting married again, and Tatankay Otake did

980
01:02:15,575 –> 01:02:19,355
marry again. And he chose a woman named Snow on her.

981
01:02:19,735 –> 01:02:23,495
She bore him 2 daughters, many horses, born in 18/65, and walks

982
01:02:23,495 –> 01:02:27,290
looking, born in 18/68. The Tanki Iotake, a man who

983
01:02:27,290 –> 01:02:30,890
loved children, was very fond of his daughters. And now this is

984
01:02:30,890 –> 01:02:34,650
where then I started laughing. In 18/66, he decided to take

985
01:02:34,650 –> 01:02:38,415
a second wife. He chose to marry a red woman, and this

986
01:02:38,415 –> 01:02:41,375
is where this is where I chuckled. It was one of the few times in

987
01:02:41,375 –> 01:02:44,515
his life that Tatanka Iotake made a mistake in judgment.

988
01:02:49,455 –> 01:02:53,240
The 2 women did not get along. Usually, when a man chooses multiple wives,

989
01:02:53,240 –> 01:02:56,840
they were sisters so they could work together in harmony. The first wife, usually

990
01:02:56,840 –> 01:02:59,420
older, was senior and usually held a slightly higher position.

991
01:03:01,240 –> 01:03:04,859
Snow on her was not happy to have the assistance Red Woman could provide.

992
01:03:05,195 –> 01:03:08,235
Instead, she was extremely jealous of the new wife, especially since the 2 of them

993
01:03:08,235 –> 01:03:11,855
were the same age, reducing her natural authority over the other woman.

994
01:03:12,795 –> 01:03:16,395
Further, the Tanki Yotake seemed to show a market preference for Red

995
01:03:16,395 –> 01:03:20,069
Woman’s company. Snow on her became bitter and hostile. She caused

996
01:03:20,069 –> 01:03:23,450
great disturbances in camp with her anger towards red woman.

997
01:03:24,069 –> 01:03:27,510
And then I, I laughed at this one too. Her displays of emotion were most

998
01:03:27,510 –> 01:03:31,109
unseemly and shocking to everybody within the

999
01:03:31,109 –> 01:03:34,815
village. Instead of promoting her husband’s position within

1000
01:03:34,815 –> 01:03:38,655
the tribe and providing example of a harmonious household, snow on her caused

1001
01:03:38,655 –> 01:03:42,495
considerable social disapproval. The Tanka Iotake, for

1002
01:03:42,495 –> 01:03:46,195
all his peacemaking skills, was not able to curb his bad behavior by his wife,

1003
01:03:46,530 –> 01:03:50,290
And to make matters worse, he really did prefer red

1004
01:03:50,290 –> 01:03:50,790
woman.

1005
01:03:56,050 –> 01:03:59,875
And I go back to my original assertion. This is why you

1006
01:03:59,875 –> 01:04:03,555
don’t get to stop. 1 one woman. One woman

1007
01:04:03,555 –> 01:04:06,914
is enough. That’s gonna give you all of the challenges you could

1008
01:04:06,914 –> 01:04:10,595
possibly need. And by the way, I’ve said this to Mormons. I’ve said

1009
01:04:10,595 –> 01:04:14,119
this to traditional folks in other

1010
01:04:14,119 –> 01:04:17,259
religious spaces that tend to tend to favor polyamory

1011
01:04:17,799 –> 01:04:20,460
or or polygamy, actually not polyamory. Sorry. Polygamy,

1012
01:04:21,559 –> 01:04:25,155
Muslims. I, it doesn’t work. I’ve never heard of a

1013
01:04:25,155 –> 01:04:28,835
time when this actually worked, where there’s less conflict because you married

1014
01:04:28,835 –> 01:04:32,275
multiple women. I’ve never heard of it. There’s never been a

1015
01:04:32,275 –> 01:04:35,255
time. I got no opinion on this.

1016
01:04:38,995 –> 01:04:42,650
No. I I I agree. Be I I go I I

1017
01:04:42,650 –> 01:04:45,630
always go one step further in this, Seisan, too, which is, like,

1018
01:04:46,490 –> 01:04:50,329
when you’re married like, I don’t even I don’t even understand of having that, like,

1019
01:04:50,329 –> 01:04:54,025
the the the side piece. Right? Like, you you’re gonna you’re cheating your

1020
01:04:54,025 –> 01:04:56,905
wife with some girl that nobody knows about. Even if you’re trying to hide it

1021
01:04:56,905 –> 01:05:00,665
from your whole family, whatever. I I have a hard enough time

1022
01:05:00,665 –> 01:05:04,125
keeping one happy. Why would I wanna add why would I wanna multiply

1023
01:05:04,185 –> 01:05:07,865
this? I don’t understand why anybody thinks that they can get

1024
01:05:07,865 –> 01:05:11,680
away with this to any kind of positive light. But now that

1025
01:05:11,680 –> 01:05:15,520
being said, again, I’m not gonna say anything bad or negative

1026
01:05:15,520 –> 01:05:19,200
about my brothers and sisters out there in in the Lacoda world. I I

1027
01:05:19,200 –> 01:05:22,720
think if that’s, you know, if that’s if that’s the way they did it, that’s

1028
01:05:22,720 –> 01:05:26,494
the way they did it. And I I I I do understand that there’s

1029
01:05:28,954 –> 01:05:32,555
I I I I I understand. I I don’t know what I don’t know. Let’s

1030
01:05:32,555 –> 01:05:35,515
put it out. Well, I understand. I I will

1031
01:05:36,630 –> 01:05:40,390
I understand that I don’t know what I don’t know, and I’ve never

1032
01:05:40,390 –> 01:05:43,029
heard of a time because who thinks it’d be true at the same time? I’ve

1033
01:05:43,029 –> 01:05:46,470
never heard of a time where it works out. 2 things can be true at

1034
01:05:46,470 –> 01:05:49,130
the same time. Yes. I agree. I agree.

1035
01:05:50,395 –> 01:05:54,075
You know, aside even I I think back even

1036
01:05:54,075 –> 01:05:57,915
back in the like, think about before modern medicine, before modern

1037
01:05:57,915 –> 01:06:01,755
medicine. Right? I would understand if you had

1038
01:06:01,755 –> 01:06:04,650
a wife. You’ve tried to have children several times, and she was never able to

1039
01:06:04,650 –> 01:06:08,490
carry. You marry another woman that can have children, and they’re all

1040
01:06:08,490 –> 01:06:12,170
okay with that. Okay. Now you have children, and

1041
01:06:12,170 –> 01:06:15,950
now the whole house is responsible for raising those children.

1042
01:06:16,734 –> 01:06:19,714
But, again, that that’s a very particular circumstance.

1043
01:06:21,055 –> 01:06:24,815
I I’m I don’t know. I I just My name is

1044
01:06:24,815 –> 01:06:28,575
Paul, and that sounds like a you problem. You you know,

1045
01:06:28,575 –> 01:06:30,675
I just I don’t I

1046
01:06:33,150 –> 01:06:36,609
I will say this. I have never,

1047
01:06:37,790 –> 01:06:41,250
I cannot conceive of a potential upside to any of this.

1048
01:06:43,395 –> 01:06:47,155
It seems as though all of the challenges that you would

1049
01:06:47,155 –> 01:06:50,375
have with authority, with

1050
01:06:50,595 –> 01:06:54,295
understanding another person, with understanding

1051
01:06:54,435 –> 01:06:57,895
the various intricacies of another person’s emotional life,

1052
01:07:00,030 –> 01:07:01,650
You compound these,

1053
01:07:04,350 –> 01:07:07,810
with a with with marrying multiple

1054
01:07:07,870 –> 01:07:11,454
women. And and by the way, I’m talking from the man’s

1055
01:07:11,454 –> 01:07:15,135
perspective, from the woman’s perspective, it’s a problem too. Because

1056
01:07:15,135 –> 01:07:18,915
really, how well could you know a dude? Like, I don’t care how matriarchal

1057
01:07:19,055 –> 01:07:22,815
your society is. Really? How well can you know a dude? Like,

1058
01:07:22,815 –> 01:07:26,369
really? So let me, let’s be real

1059
01:07:26,369 –> 01:07:30,210
here. So my, my, my

1060
01:07:30,210 –> 01:07:34,049
observation of this is yes. This was

1061
01:07:34,049 –> 01:07:36,790
the time when he made a terrible mistake at judgment

1062
01:07:38,565 –> 01:07:42,265
2, I get, I guess at a, at a cultural

1063
01:07:42,405 –> 01:07:46,085
level, why it was deemed necessary to sort of

1064
01:07:46,085 –> 01:07:49,605
follow this path, but it doesn’t seem as

1065
01:07:49,605 –> 01:07:53,420
though he was browbeaten or forced into it. It seemed

1066
01:07:53,420 –> 01:07:55,200
like he had choices and had options.

1067
01:07:57,099 –> 01:08:00,540
And because he had choices and had options, he could have chosen to

1068
01:08:00,540 –> 01:08:03,200
not, you know, go down that road,

1069
01:08:04,300 –> 01:08:05,599
and instead, he

1070
01:08:08,005 –> 01:08:11,605
he chose the way of pain. Well, familial pain. And so

1071
01:08:11,605 –> 01:08:15,445
from this, just speaking about leadership, this is this is it’s something that

1072
01:08:15,445 –> 01:08:18,885
I tell entrepreneurs, and Tom’s heard me heard me tell entrepreneurs this, and I even

1073
01:08:18,885 –> 01:08:22,340
tell this to entrepreneurs who I mean in real life. You’ve got it the the

1074
01:08:22,340 –> 01:08:25,619
only negotiation that you have actually, I don’t the first sale you have to make

1075
01:08:25,619 –> 01:08:28,179
is a sale of your wife or your partner or whatever you’ve got going on

1076
01:08:28,179 –> 01:08:31,779
in your house. Period. Full stop. If you don’t make that

1077
01:08:31,779 –> 01:08:35,595
sale, all the rest of the sales, you could become a billionaire. You

1078
01:08:35,595 –> 01:08:39,274
could become and I always pick on Elon because he’s the most popular person right

1079
01:08:39,274 –> 01:08:42,875
now. Elon Musk has been married. Married. Has been

1080
01:08:42,875 –> 01:08:46,314
married twice, I think, and has been in, like, 4 different relationships and has produced,

1081
01:08:46,314 –> 01:08:50,149
like, 8 kids. And the man sleeps on

1082
01:08:50,149 –> 01:08:52,969
the floor of the Tesla Gigafactory because he can’t go home.

1083
01:08:54,710 –> 01:08:58,469
How good a salesman could he be? Can’t sell a

1084
01:08:58,469 –> 01:09:01,850
woman? What? One of them?

1085
01:09:03,385 –> 01:09:06,205
Not that one? Right. So

1086
01:09:07,225 –> 01:09:10,505
Tom’s being because he’s conspicuously quiet on this. He’s letting me talk, which is fine.

1087
01:09:10,505 –> 01:09:13,485
He’s letting me hang myself. That’s fine. I’ll do it. It’s my podcast.

1088
01:09:14,265 –> 01:09:18,069
Bury the one woman, the one time, figure out your house

1089
01:09:18,069 –> 01:09:21,850
first, and then you could be a better lead. That’s my that’s my own.

1090
01:09:24,550 –> 01:09:28,229
What’s next? Ah, Tom

1091
01:09:28,229 –> 01:09:29,689
goes suspiciously silent.

1092
01:09:32,885 –> 01:09:36,325
There there’s been again, if you look in the course of history, again, from a

1093
01:09:36,325 –> 01:09:39,685
cultural perspective, there’s some things that that happened

1094
01:09:39,685 –> 01:09:43,125
that there there’s been I’ve seen and heard of people taking

1095
01:09:43,125 –> 01:09:46,565
multiple wives, but their wives in the sense

1096
01:09:46,565 –> 01:09:50,130
of visibility but not not

1097
01:09:53,390 –> 01:09:56,990
relationship meaning so, like, you you go something

1098
01:09:56,990 –> 01:10:00,830
happens to your brothers something happens to your brother. You adopt his family

1099
01:10:00,830 –> 01:10:04,445
as yours. Technically, you marry his wife so that she becomes part of your

1100
01:10:04,445 –> 01:10:08,045
family and you can take care of her, but there’s nothing there. There’s no,

1101
01:10:08,045 –> 01:10:11,665
like, there’s no physical relationship. There’s no sexual

1102
01:10:11,885 –> 01:10:15,725
tension. There’s no there’s none of that. There’s a level of responsibility that you have

1103
01:10:15,725 –> 01:10:19,489
just adopted Mhmm. Because of that, but it but that’s

1104
01:10:19,489 –> 01:10:23,329
where it ends. And and and that you do willingly because that’s

1105
01:10:23,329 –> 01:10:27,010
the the the honorable thing to do, to to take your brother’s family

1106
01:10:27,010 –> 01:10:30,610
in and and and, you know, and and help them manage along. You

1107
01:10:30,610 –> 01:10:34,365
gotta remember, we’re not talking about a time where the woman could just

1108
01:10:34,365 –> 01:10:37,325
go, oh, I don’t have a man anymore. I’ll just go get my own job.

1109
01:10:37,325 –> 01:10:41,165
And also, that’s not how it worked. So somebody had

1110
01:10:41,165 –> 01:10:43,245
to buy Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Somebody somebody had to go out and

1111
01:10:43,245 –> 01:10:47,005
provide meat and whatever. The teepee though. Like, she’s in charge of

1112
01:10:47,005 –> 01:10:50,840
the teepee. You’re gonna tell me that that doesn’t Not in that sense. In

1113
01:10:50,840 –> 01:10:54,360
those circumstances where where you’re you’re you’re adopted in the

1114
01:10:54,360 –> 01:10:58,120
family and because of a a death or because again, you you

1115
01:10:58,120 –> 01:11:01,260
read something earlier where if I killed somebody,

1116
01:11:01,945 –> 01:11:05,785
now I’m gonna be responsible for their family. Right. You know,

1117
01:11:05,785 –> 01:11:09,625
like, that there’s no hierarchy there in in wifehood. You’re

1118
01:11:09,625 –> 01:11:13,325
only married to one wife. You’re married to the other family.

1119
01:11:13,465 –> 01:11:17,190
So it’s a different it’s a different it’s a different term. It’s

1120
01:11:17,190 –> 01:11:20,949
the same term, different definition, I guess, is the the better way to

1121
01:11:20,949 –> 01:11:24,710
say it. Now in this particular case, again, I’m not defending Sitting Bull

1122
01:11:24,710 –> 01:11:28,409
here. In this particular case, that was not the case. It was where

1123
01:11:28,824 –> 01:11:32,425
he just felt like he wanted another wife. I I you know, whatever. And by

1124
01:11:32,425 –> 01:11:35,065
the way, if he were alive today, we were to ask him, I’m not so

1125
01:11:35,065 –> 01:11:38,264
sure he would say that it was the one of his biggest mistakes. That that

1126
01:11:38,264 –> 01:11:41,324
might just be us judging him at this point.

1127
01:11:46,960 –> 01:11:50,320
We don’t know what what Sitting Bull was thinking at that point. Okay? You’re right.

1128
01:11:50,320 –> 01:11:53,760
We have we have no idea. We cannot speak to the mental

1129
01:11:53,760 –> 01:11:56,739
capacity of the person that’s not in the room to defend himself.

1130
01:11:57,440 –> 01:12:01,055
K. Sure. So We’re

1131
01:12:01,055 –> 01:12:04,655
stating opinion, not fact. I’m just saying. Grant you that. You’re

1132
01:12:04,655 –> 01:12:08,255
correct. We are stating opinion. We have no idea the

1133
01:12:08,255 –> 01:12:11,730
facts of the case, but we do know what

1134
01:12:11,890 –> 01:12:15,330
was actually done. Like, we do know what And we do know how his great

1135
01:12:15,330 –> 01:12:18,610
great grandson feels about it because he wrote in the book saying it was one

1136
01:12:18,610 –> 01:12:22,450
of his mistakes. There you go. That’s right. So We’ll take it. We’ll take

1137
01:12:22,450 –> 01:12:25,775
we’ll take his word on that. How’s that? Yeah. There you go. Ernie Ernie has

1138
01:12:25,775 –> 01:12:27,875
an opinion. Okay.

1139
01:12:30,735 –> 01:12:34,094
Get your house in order, entrepreneurs. Alright. Now the the

1140
01:12:34,094 –> 01:12:37,790
other the other thing I’d like to

1141
01:12:37,790 –> 01:12:41,150
focus on because we have a limited amount of time left, and and I would

1142
01:12:41,150 –> 01:12:44,530
recommend getting this book, City Bowl, his life and legacy. Pick it up.

1143
01:12:45,150 –> 01:12:48,670
It’s, like, $15 on Amazon. I think I got it for, like, 7 or

1144
01:12:48,670 –> 01:12:52,435
something, because I got it used. But pick it up, read it.

1145
01:12:52,435 –> 01:12:54,695
I would I would encourage you to read it,

1146
01:12:55,955 –> 01:12:59,475
alongside bury my heart at wounded knee, just to see the

1147
01:12:59,475 –> 01:13:03,235
gaps between what Dee Brown, says

1148
01:13:03,235 –> 01:13:06,690
about Sitting Bull and what, Sitting Bull’s great

1149
01:13:06,690 –> 01:13:10,450
grandson actually says, you know, about, about Sitting

1150
01:13:10,450 –> 01:13:13,910
Bull. There are some, there are some there are some interesting

1151
01:13:13,970 –> 01:13:16,150
differences, there.

1152
01:13:21,985 –> 01:13:25,605
What are the requirements of a leader of the Lakota

1153
01:13:25,665 –> 01:13:29,505
was to go on a, what’s called

1154
01:13:29,505 –> 01:13:32,945
a, a wee wong was

1155
01:13:32,945 –> 01:13:36,660
CP, which is a gazing

1156
01:13:36,660 –> 01:13:40,500
at the sun as you dance or abbreviated for white culture, a

1157
01:13:40,500 –> 01:13:44,120
sun dance. This is a powerful ceremony.

1158
01:13:44,740 –> 01:13:48,535
That’s similar to, I I use the term

1159
01:13:48,535 –> 01:13:51,675
already vision quest. That’s sort of where my brain went.

1160
01:13:52,295 –> 01:13:55,815
One of the things that I noted was there’s no psychedelics attached to

1161
01:13:55,815 –> 01:13:58,875
this. However, there are,

1162
01:14:00,790 –> 01:14:04,330
again, acts of not acts of benchmarks,

1163
01:14:04,710 –> 01:14:08,550
right, that that move you forward in the ceremony and tell you where

1164
01:14:08,550 –> 01:14:11,210
you are and what you are doing. And,

1165
01:14:12,575 –> 01:14:16,175
and so the made a commitment to perform this

1166
01:14:16,175 –> 01:14:19,935
ceremony. To do this, he first performed, by the way, sort of the book,

1167
01:14:19,935 –> 01:14:23,535
Sitting Bull by Ernie Lapointe. To do this, he first performed the

1168
01:14:23,535 –> 01:14:26,755
INIPI, the sweat lodge ceremony used to purify the soul.

1169
01:14:27,830 –> 01:14:31,430
Then he undertook the, I’m not gonna be able to pronounce that crying for a

1170
01:14:31,430 –> 01:14:34,890
vision through the night or vision quest seeking guidance from the spirits.

1171
01:14:35,750 –> 01:14:39,290
And then once he did that, then he went on into

1172
01:14:39,590 –> 01:14:43,415
the, we won the wasippy ceremony, which is

1173
01:14:43,415 –> 01:14:47,035
a ceremony an individual performs for the health and welfare of the people.

1174
01:14:47,815 –> 01:14:51,655
It is also a fertility ceremony for the continued existence of the nation. The

1175
01:14:51,655 –> 01:14:55,335
pleasure dances while staring at the sun and offering prayers through the Eagle

1176
01:14:55,335 –> 01:14:57,890
bone whistle. Now I highlighted,

1177
01:14:58,910 –> 01:15:02,350
the steps in the ceremony and there were about 6 or 7

1178
01:15:02,350 –> 01:15:06,030
steps, in the ceremony, which were all very interesting to

1179
01:15:06,030 –> 01:15:09,790
me. And at the, towards the end of

1180
01:15:09,790 –> 01:15:11,970
it, it, it frames it out this way.

1181
01:15:13,725 –> 01:15:16,545
The pleasure and that’s, that would be, to Tonka

1182
01:15:17,405 –> 01:15:21,025
commits to extensive suffering for his people and allows his upper body

1183
01:15:21,165 –> 01:15:23,824
flesh to be pierced by sharpened bones or sticks.

1184
01:15:25,330 –> 01:15:28,530
Piercing bones are attached to leather ropes that are connected to Buffalo skulls that the

1185
01:15:28,530 –> 01:15:32,290
pleasure will drag around the circular arena, or they may be attached to

1186
01:15:32,290 –> 01:15:35,830
the wee Wong was a PP pole that is in the center of the grounds.

1187
01:15:36,450 –> 01:15:40,255
In either case, the gazer, the dancer gazes into the sun, blowing

1188
01:15:40,255 –> 01:15:43,935
on an eagle bone whistle and pulls against the piercing bones until they tear free

1189
01:15:43,935 –> 01:15:47,775
from his skin. Tatanka Eotaka committed to be pierced

1190
01:15:47,775 –> 01:15:51,295
on his back and chest and to be suspended above the ground, hanging by the

1191
01:15:51,295 –> 01:15:55,060
skewers that impaled him. The pain was tremendous, and he

1192
01:15:55,060 –> 01:15:58,820
went into a shock induced trance state. In this trance, he

1193
01:15:58,820 –> 01:16:02,500
envisioned himself as a young boy resting by a tree. And then it

1194
01:16:02,500 –> 01:16:05,080
talks about the vision that he said that he had,

1195
01:16:06,900 –> 01:16:10,605
including The grasshoppers the grasshoppers falling from the sky. Yes.

1196
01:16:10,605 –> 01:16:13,665
The grasshoppers falling from the sky. Exactly. Yep.

1197
01:16:15,324 –> 01:16:18,764
And then at the end, when he had finished, the

1198
01:16:18,764 –> 01:16:22,304
Wakasa walk and said, your honor is great, but your responsibilities

1199
01:16:23,165 –> 01:16:26,750
are greater. And that was sort of the big thing that he pulled

1200
01:16:26,750 –> 01:16:30,530
from his ceremony, that his responsibilities to his people,

1201
01:16:32,270 –> 01:16:35,870
would, would be great, would be even greater than

1202
01:16:35,870 –> 01:16:39,390
his than his honor. And it is from that chapter then

1203
01:16:39,390 –> 01:16:42,875
forward that we talk about or Ernie talks about

1204
01:16:43,094 –> 01:16:46,395
encountering the Americans, Arrow Creek,

1205
01:16:46,455 –> 01:16:48,155
broken promises,

1206
01:16:51,014 –> 01:16:54,534
the battle of the greasy grass, which is also

1207
01:16:54,534 –> 01:16:58,040
known as Little Bighorn. Little Bighorn, right,

1208
01:16:58,040 –> 01:17:01,820
with a long hair Custer, and

1209
01:17:02,360 –> 01:17:06,199
then moving into military custody and

1210
01:17:06,199 –> 01:17:10,040
dealing with the Canadians. This is where the long downhill slide

1211
01:17:10,040 –> 01:17:13,695
begins, for the Lakota people, and I don’t think I’m

1212
01:17:13,695 –> 01:17:17,155
being too dramatic when I say downhill slide.

1213
01:17:18,975 –> 01:17:21,875
Well, some would argue that the downhill slide hasn’t stopped yet.

1214
01:17:22,895 –> 01:17:26,335
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I could definitely there’s I I would definitely

1215
01:17:27,670 –> 01:17:31,270
most people don’t realize agree with that argument. Yeah. Most people don’t realize that if

1216
01:17:31,270 –> 01:17:34,950
you took the Pine Ridge reservation and you put it anywhere

1217
01:17:34,950 –> 01:17:37,850
else on the planet, it would be considered a third world country.

1218
01:17:38,470 –> 01:17:42,275
Right. There’s level of poverty and everything else that goes

1219
01:17:42,275 –> 01:17:45,975
along with it. Most people don’t have a concept

1220
01:17:46,034 –> 01:17:49,554
of that within the United States. Right. I think of if you live in the

1221
01:17:49,554 –> 01:17:53,074
United States, you’re you’re doing okay. You may not be great. You may not be

1222
01:17:53,074 –> 01:17:56,179
rich. You may not be wealthy, but you can at least survive on a, you

1223
01:17:56,179 –> 01:18:00,020
know, a norm on under some sense of normalcy and not have

1224
01:18:00,020 –> 01:18:03,460
to, you know, kick and scream and fight on a daily basis for your own

1225
01:18:03,460 –> 01:18:07,300
existence. In the Pine Ridge Reservation, there’s a lot

1226
01:18:07,300 –> 01:18:10,455
of people that feel like that is their struggle every day.

1227
01:18:12,995 –> 01:18:13,495
So

1228
01:18:18,115 –> 01:18:20,115
I so okay. So I am

1229
01:18:22,890 –> 01:18:26,730
well, let’s do this. So because we only have 4 minutes left

1230
01:18:26,730 –> 01:18:30,170
because I’ve got I’ve got an appointment, and you’ve got things you gotta do.

1231
01:18:30,170 –> 01:18:33,770
And this is a much longer conversation, which we’ll probably pick we are gonna pick

1232
01:18:33,770 –> 01:18:36,750
up a part 2 of this because there’s other things I wanna talk about this

1233
01:18:38,764 –> 01:18:42,204
because we only we barely touched on the surface of of all of

1234
01:18:42,204 –> 01:18:43,665
this. So

1235
01:18:46,764 –> 01:18:50,304
walk me through the

1236
01:18:50,685 –> 01:18:54,390
the the the reason for let’s introduce this

1237
01:18:54,390 –> 01:18:58,170
idea. The reason for the rejection of Sitting Bull

1238
01:18:58,710 –> 01:19:01,770
by certain individuals in the Lakota

1239
01:19:02,710 –> 01:19:06,185
nation. Like, what is the what is the reason for that?

1240
01:19:06,245 –> 01:19:10,005
Because Ernie lays out some things in here, but he’s not very clear. He does

1241
01:19:10,005 –> 01:19:13,685
talk about the 2009 DNA testing that proves that

1242
01:19:13,685 –> 01:19:17,465
he is, oh, the, the great grandson

1243
01:19:17,605 –> 01:19:21,340
of, of Sitting Bull. I do recall when we were talking

1244
01:19:21,340 –> 01:19:23,980
about bury my heart at wounded knee, you talked about,

1245
01:19:25,420 –> 01:19:29,260
the identification situation, with, with native

1246
01:19:29,260 –> 01:19:32,940
Americans and tribal identification and sort of how if the

1247
01:19:32,940 –> 01:19:36,745
federal government says you’re this thing, I believe this was the point you were making.

1248
01:19:36,745 –> 01:19:40,425
If the federal government says this thing, but the tribe says

1249
01:19:40,425 –> 01:19:44,125
that thing, what the tribe says goes. Is that correct?

1250
01:19:44,665 –> 01:19:47,465
I mean, for the most part. The other thing too is it’s not even it’s

1251
01:19:47,465 –> 01:19:51,230
it’s a little even less complicated than that. So the the federal

1252
01:19:51,390 –> 01:19:55,230
the government, they don’t really care. The government doesn’t care one

1253
01:19:55,230 –> 01:19:58,590
way or the other, honestly. Right. Okay. They they leave it they essentially leave it

1254
01:19:58,590 –> 01:20:01,730
to the tribal governments to determine their

1255
01:20:02,350 –> 01:20:05,685
their their their,

1256
01:20:06,405 –> 01:20:08,745
membership or roles Right. Their their

1257
01:20:09,925 –> 01:20:13,765
population. Right? Population. Yep. So but what they the way in which

1258
01:20:13,765 –> 01:20:16,825
the federal government kinda gets involved in this is saying,

1259
01:20:17,340 –> 01:20:20,700
you you as a tribal people have this allotment of

1260
01:20:20,700 –> 01:20:24,300
land. Mhmm. It’s gonna be divided equally

1261
01:20:24,300 –> 01:20:28,060
amongst your people. Each family each family is

1262
01:20:28,060 –> 01:20:31,820
gonna have a certain parcel. So and what we have think

1263
01:20:31,820 –> 01:20:35,364
about it, like try to think of it in a smaller scale. Think of it

1264
01:20:35,364 –> 01:20:39,205
like your say you have 2 acres of land in your home, and

1265
01:20:39,205 –> 01:20:42,965
you have 4 kids that live on it. You die. Now

1266
01:20:42,965 –> 01:20:46,645
you wanna leave the 2 acres a half an acre each to your

1267
01:20:46,645 –> 01:20:50,340
kids. Now they have kids, and they’re

1268
01:20:50,340 –> 01:20:54,100
leaving their half an acre to 2 kids. So

1269
01:20:54,100 –> 01:20:56,980
now each one of them have 2 and and so on and so on and

1270
01:20:56,980 –> 01:21:00,820
so forth. So now if you have been if you have not had anything

1271
01:21:00,820 –> 01:21:03,160
to do with this tribal affiliation for

1272
01:21:05,034 –> 01:21:08,315
3, 4, 5, 6 generations, and now all of a sudden you’re trying to claim

1273
01:21:08,315 –> 01:21:11,915
claim ownership to your tribal affiliation, now the tribal

1274
01:21:11,915 –> 01:21:15,695
affiliation government has to look at this and go, we let them in.

1275
01:21:15,835 –> 01:21:19,510
Whatever family they belong to gets diluted. Right.

1276
01:21:19,890 –> 01:21:23,170
Yeah. So so, essentially, the

1277
01:21:23,490 –> 01:21:27,170
it the way that the US government gives the power to the tribal

1278
01:21:27,170 –> 01:21:29,670
government to determine who their population is,

1279
01:21:30,850 –> 01:21:34,515
they they give it they do that in a way that makes it

1280
01:21:34,995 –> 01:21:38,615
not advantageous for them to open up the doors for people,

1281
01:21:39,635 –> 01:21:43,235
which so which just so your just so our listeners

1282
01:21:43,235 –> 01:21:46,375
here understand this Mhmm. I am fully

1283
01:21:46,675 –> 01:21:50,375
qualified, and I can prove absolute without a doubt

1284
01:21:50,480 –> 01:21:53,840
my tribal affiliation, I can actually go to our tribal

1285
01:21:53,840 –> 01:21:56,500
government and get that tribal card recognition.

1286
01:21:57,520 –> 01:22:01,280
I choose not to because I think it’s an atrocity the

1287
01:22:01,280 –> 01:22:04,260
way that the federal government has allowed or has

1288
01:22:04,685 –> 01:22:08,125
implemented a processes in which we alienate our own

1289
01:22:08,125 –> 01:22:11,825
people, just for benefit of the people that are on the

1290
01:22:11,965 –> 01:22:15,805
on the reservation. Right? Yeah. So in in the one sense, the tribal government

1291
01:22:15,805 –> 01:22:19,600
looks like they’re from the inside looking

1292
01:22:19,600 –> 01:22:23,440
out, it looks like the tribal government is trying to protect their own. From

1293
01:22:23,440 –> 01:22:26,960
the outside looking in, it looks like the tribal government is trying to gatekeep

1294
01:22:26,960 –> 01:22:30,705
something gatekeep something they don’t need to gatekeep. Because I’m not

1295
01:22:30,705 –> 01:22:34,385
looking to get take land from our people. I’m not looking I don’t want I

1296
01:22:34,385 –> 01:22:38,145
I I own a house. I’m sitting at my house. I own I own 2

1297
01:22:38,145 –> 01:22:41,845
acres of land right now. I don’t need our tribal land for me to survive,

1298
01:22:42,305 –> 01:22:45,940
but but it’s up to the but but because the way the federal

1299
01:22:45,940 –> 01:22:49,700
government writes those treaties, they’re required by their tribal government to

1300
01:22:49,700 –> 01:22:52,040
allot me something that I don’t need.

1301
01:22:53,700 –> 01:22:57,060
We but and then the US government won’t let them change

1302
01:22:57,060 –> 01:23:00,895
those parameters. So Right. Again, until

1303
01:23:00,895 –> 01:23:04,735
we’re allowed to govern ourselves in a way that that makes sense for our

1304
01:23:04,735 –> 01:23:08,575
people, then I’m not gonna bother with that with that tribal recognition at

1305
01:23:08,575 –> 01:23:11,750
at all. I I don’t Yeah. I know who I am. I don’t need the

1306
01:23:11,750 –> 01:23:15,510
federal government or anybody else to tell me who I am. And I think that’s

1307
01:23:15,510 –> 01:23:19,270
part of what Ernie’s talking about, at least from his perspective. And he

1308
01:23:19,270 –> 01:23:22,650
has DNA evidence that he’s actually a direct descendant. That’s

1309
01:23:23,105 –> 01:23:26,784
I I don’t understand how you can dispute that. Right? Like, this is that doesn’t

1310
01:23:26,784 –> 01:23:30,465
make any sense. Now that being said, whether or not Sitting

1311
01:23:30,465 –> 01:23:34,145
Bull’s descendants should be allowed in, that’s a tribal government

1312
01:23:34,145 –> 01:23:37,960
issue. That’s not my issue to fight. So Right. Whether whether he

1313
01:23:37,960 –> 01:23:41,640
should or should not have been allowed in based on who Sitting

1314
01:23:41,640 –> 01:23:45,480
Bull was, what his actions were, how he treated the tribal government,

1315
01:23:45,480 –> 01:23:49,240
all that stuff, that is a completely different and separate issue. Because

1316
01:23:49,240 –> 01:23:52,885
that is something that could be a determining factor on whether or

1317
01:23:52,885 –> 01:23:56,585
not you’re you know, if your family was basically

1318
01:23:56,725 –> 01:24:00,085
disowned by the tribal government, then you’re not being allowed in for a

1319
01:24:00,085 –> 01:24:03,445
reason. There’s nothing there’s not a lot you can do about that, but I,

1320
01:24:04,540 –> 01:24:07,600
couldn’t fathom a reason why Sitting Bull would be excommunicated

1321
01:24:07,980 –> 01:24:11,660
for, you know anyway. But Well, we’re

1322
01:24:11,660 –> 01:24:14,780
going to we’re gonna revisit this because we need to begin to the leadership lessons

1323
01:24:14,780 –> 01:24:18,335
from Sitting Bull, which I wanted to get into as well. And, unfortunately,

1324
01:24:18,635 –> 01:24:22,135
tragically, we have run out of time today. So,

1325
01:24:22,955 –> 01:24:26,095
we’re gonna pick up part 2 of this. Probably be episode 126.

1326
01:24:26,795 –> 01:24:30,555
So we’re gonna pick up part 2 of this. So look for that, coming

1327
01:24:30,555 –> 01:24:34,250
in the next couple of weeks. But for the moment, this is

1328
01:24:34,250 –> 01:24:38,010
the Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, and Tom and

1329
01:24:38,010 –> 01:24:40,110
I, well, we’re out.