Leadership Lessons From The Great Books – Little Women by Louisa May Alcott w/Tom Libby

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Hello. My name is Jesan Sorrells, and this is the

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Leadership Lessons from the Great Books podcast, episode

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number 106.

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With our book today, I’m going to read a little

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synopsis here just to start the show with our book

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today, a novel that has embedded itself so

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deeply into the overall psyche of the United States of

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America, that it is confused in the average

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readers minds and memories with things that didn’t really

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historically happen. Books and stories

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create cultural memories. And this book that we are going to be covering

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today has created more cultural memories in the minds

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of Americans from the age of 8 all the way to adulthood

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than probably any other book written in the last 100

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and 50 years.

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The author of this book, developed her approach to writing during

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the gilded age of the United States of America,

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an era that probably was the last time

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that ripening cultural confidence in the American way of life and the

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American approach to family and culture was relatively

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undisputed. She was also a female

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author, just like Baroness Karen Blixen, whose work we covered

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in episode number 105. And, she was heavily

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influenced just as the Baroness was by her father,

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as well as her positions and her

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family’s positions around the burgeoning feminist

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movement in the United States post civil war.

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Today, we will be covering the book based on the author’s lived

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experiences during the American civil war.

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Little Women by Louisa May

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Alcott. Yeah, that’s going to be a risk. It’s going to be a real interesting

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one today. We’re not going to read the whole book. We

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can’t possibly do that. So we are going to read selections from

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it. And of course we are joined by our regular

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cohost, Tom Libby. How are you doing, Tom?

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I am doing fantastic, Haysan. I can’t wait till a couple of,

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guys break down literature women, like, the

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sisterhood of little women. This is gonna be this is gonna be fascinating. This

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is gonna be spectacular. This is going to be spectacular during the

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month of May where we are recording this

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the day after mother’s day. So to all of you mothers who

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are listening out there, happy mother’s

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day. And, well, to all of you mothers

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out there, you know who you are. And and and

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Tom just had his birthday, so happy birthday to Tom

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Libby. I appreciate that. Thank you. Well, I

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won’t ask how old you are because that would be impolite on the

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show. I’ve had a couple of summers

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under my belt.

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We’re just we were talking about this a little bit because Tom and I

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are relatively close in age. We can remember when things happened historically

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it’s similar similar points in our lives. We have some some overlap in some in

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in in a few areas. And, you know, when you get to a

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point where you’ve seen a few summers, then you get to

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actually preface that, that your use that as a

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preface. That’s not what I’m saying. You get to use that as a preface

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fourth, for for putting things in a particular context. And so

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I I I anticipate that Tom will start doing this fairly soon here on the

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show. Yeah. We’ll say

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this. I’ll say this. I I remember the first time I could say,

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well, 20 years ago, we did this, this, and this, and I was referencing

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my work life. Mhmm. I realized I was getting old. I There

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you go. I realized I was getting old.

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Well, you shouldn’t you shouldn’t I don’t think you should frame it as getting old.

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I think you should frame it as fourth aging, like fine wine.

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I I think that’ll be out for debate. We’ll just leave it at that.

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Or or you can say curdling like milk. I mean, either one, Like, either way.

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Fourth. All right. Well, leaders, this is a book that,

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similar to, I would say, the good

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earth probably, is, is going to be

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the most interesting. We’re gonna have the most interesting conversations,

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around this. And we are going to, of course, talk about as we usually do

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on the podcast, the literary life of Louisa May Alcott. We’re

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gonna talk about her background. She is one of the

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more interesting, I would say female writers or

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female authors, of the, of the 19th

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century, particularly the American 19th century.

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And she is a, she was a product of.

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While she was a product of her age, which is

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something that we all are no matter what, how many

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summers we have seen. Alright.

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I’m gonna go to the book here. We’re gonna start off a little bit here.

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And, again, we’re not gonna read the whole book. We’re just going to read selections

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from the book. I would encourage you to pick

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it up from

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Literature Women by Louisa May Alcott.

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When mister March lost his property in trying to help an unfortunate friend,

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the 2 oldest girls begged to be allowed to do something toward their own support

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at least. Believing that they could not begin too early to cultivate energy,

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industry, and independence, their parents consented and both fell to work with a

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hearty goodwill in spite of all the obstacles is sure

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to succeed at last. Margaret

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found a place as a nursery governess and felt rich with her small

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salary. As she said, she was, quote, fond of luxury, unquote, and her

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chief trouble was poverty. She found it harder

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to bear than the others because she could remember a time when home was beautiful

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life, full of ease and pleasure and want of any kind unknown.

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She tried not to be envious or discontented, but it was very natural

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that the young girl should long for pretty things, gay friends, accomplishments, and a

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happy life. At the Kings, she daily saw all

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she wanted, for the children’s older sisters were just out and may caught frequent

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glimpses of dainty ball dresses and bouquets bouquets.

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Her lively gossip about theaters, concert, slang parties, and merry makings of all

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kinds and some money lavish on trifles, which would have been so precious to

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her. Fourth make seldom complain, but a sense of injustice

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made her feel bitter toward everyone sometimes for she had not yet

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learned to know how rich she was in the blessings, which alone can make

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life happy. Joe happened to suit

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aunt March, who was lame and needed an active person to wait upon her. The

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childless old lady had offered to adopt one of the girls when the troubles came

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and was much offended because her offer was declined. Other friends

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told the Marches that they had lost all chance of being remembered in the ritual

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leaders will, but the unworldly marches only

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said we can’t give up our girls for a dozen

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fortunes, rich or poor. We will keep together and be happy in one

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another. The old lady would speak to them for a time,

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but happening to meet Joe at a friend’s something in her comical face and blunt

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manner struck the old lady’s fancy, and she proposed to take her for a companion.

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This did not suit Joe at all, but she accepted the place since nothing better

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appeared. And Tom everyone’s surprise, got on remarkably well with

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her irascable relative. There was an occasional

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tempest, and once Joe marched home declaring she couldn’t bear it longer, but aunt March

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always cleared up quickly and sent for her to come back again with such

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urgency that she could not refuse for in her heart. She rather liked

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the peppery old lady.

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I suspect the real attraction was a large library of fine books, which was

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left to dust and spiders since Uncle March died. Joe remembered the kind of

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gentleman the kind old gentleman who used to let her build

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railroads and bridges with his big dictionaries, tell her stories about queer

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pictures in his Latin books and buy her cards of gingerbread whenever he met her

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on the street. The dim dusty room with the busts

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staring down from the tall bookcases, the cozy chairs, the Globes, and best of all,

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the wilderness of books in which she could wander where she liked made the

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library a region of bliss for her.

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The moment Aunt March took her nap, who was busy with company, Joe hurried to

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this quiet place and curling herself up in the easy chair, devoured

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poetry, romance history, travels, and pictures like a regular bookworm. But like

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all happiness, it did not last long for a shoe just fourth as sure as

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she had just reached to the heart of the story. The sweetest verse of a

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song or the most perilous adventure of her traveler, a shrill voice called

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Josephine Josephine, and she had to leave her paradise to

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wind yarn, wash the poodle fourth read Belsham’s essays

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by the hour together. Then I’m going

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to skip that paragraph. I’m going to go to this. Beth was too bashful

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to go to school if it had been, it had been tried, but she suffered

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so much that it was given up. But she did her lessons at home with

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her father. Even when he went away, her mother was called to devote her skill

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and energy to soldiers aid societies. Beth went faithfully on by herself and

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did the best she could. She was a house wifely little creature and helped

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Hannah keep home neat and comfortable for the writers. Never thinking of any reward,

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but to be loved Long quiet day. She spent not lonely or

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idle for her little world was peopled with imaginary friends and she was by

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nature, a busy bee. There were 6 dolls to be taken up and dressed every

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morning for Beth was a child and still loved her pets as well as.

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Not one whole or handsome one among them all were outcasts till Beth took them

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in for when her sisters outgrew these idols, they passed to her because

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Amy would have nothing older. That’s cherished them all the more tenderly

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for that reason and set up a hospital for infirm dolls. No pins were ever

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stuck into their cotton vitals. No harsh words or blows ever given them. No neglect

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ever sat in the heart of the most repulsive, but all were fed and clothed,

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nursed, and caressed with an affection which never failed. One

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forlorn fragment of the landity had belonged to Joe and having led a

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tempestuous life was left a wreck in a rag bag from

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which dreary poor house. It was rescued Beth by Beth and

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taken to her refuge. I mean, no top to its

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head. She tied on a neat little cap and as both arms and legs were

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gone, she hid these deficiencies by folding it in a blanket and devoting her best

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bed to this chronic invalid. If anyone had known the

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care lavished on that Dolly, I think it would have touched their hearts even while

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they laughed. She brought books of bouquets. She read to

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it, took it out to breathe fresh air, hidden under her coach. Essays saying it

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lullabies and never went to bed without kissing its dirty face and whispering tenderly.

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I hope you’ll have a good night. My poor dear, there

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are many Books in the world, shy and quiet sitting in corners

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till needed and living for others. So cheerfully that no

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one sees the sacrifice to the little cricket on the hearth that stops chirping

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and the sweet sunshiny presence humanities, leaving

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silence and shadow behind.

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So who is this, Louisa May Alcott?

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Again, a book so embedded

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into the American psyche that we actually don’t really think about the

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book or the author anymore. We just sort of

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take it up whole cloth. We do literature women and the other book she

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wrote literature men and we kind of combine it in, in our heads, or at

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least I do, combine it in my head with, everything that I ever

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used to see on literature house on the prairie. Remember that show from the 19

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seventies? Yeah. It kind of all merges together in my head, And

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that’s because it’s part of a collective, conscience

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that we all have around a particular era that all of us

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were born, At least those of us who were listening to the podcast today, all

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of us were born too late to directly experience. And so of course

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that era is now fading into,

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perhaps is already long faded into myth.

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But who created those myths? Right. And we’ve talked

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about whether or not myths are accurate on this podcast,

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but myths are necessary for a culture, Well, we have to know who

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wrote those myths. Writers. And so Louisa may Alcott was born

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November 29th, 18 32, and she died March 6th, 18,

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88. She wrote short stories. She wrote poetry and of

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course she wrote multiple novels. She

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was raised in new England by her transcendentalist parents. And we’re going to

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talk a little bit about transcendentalism today too, because it relates to this

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idea of generational turnings and generational cycles

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and religious awakenings that happened in the United States. And

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she was part of, well, her, her parents were part of the

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backend of the Jesan great awakening in the United States. And so this

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great awakening produced well, produced a lot of

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different artistic, efforts, particularly in

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the literary and novel space. So when Louisa

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May Alcott was growing up, she was surrounded by many of the well known

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intellectuals of the day that were part of the transcendentalist movement, including

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Margaret Fuller, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Nathaniel

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Hawthorne, Henry David Thoreau, and Henry Wadsworth

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Longfellow. Early in her career, she

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sometimes used pen names such as a M bear Bernard Barnard,

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under which she wrote Lurie fourth stories and sensation novels for

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adults that focused on passion and revenge.

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Poverty was a driver as it was mentioned there in that little

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piece there for little women. But poverty made it necessary for

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Louisa May Alcott to go to work at an early age as a teacher, a

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seamstress, a governess, a domestic helper, and of course, a writer.

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Her sisters also supported the family turning as seamstresses while their mother

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took on social work among the Irish immigrants. Only the

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youngest, Abigail, was able to attend public school. Due to all these

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pressures, writing became a creative and emotional outlet for Alcott. As a

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matter of fact, in the civil war, she served as a nurse in

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Washington DC and wrote letters home that inspired her book

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Hospital Sketches, which was written in 18/63. And then later on,

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she published Literature Women in 18/68. She

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banged out, get this, 500 pages of

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writing in 3 months. Take that

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chat GPT.

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Some things still do defy the algorithm Along with Elizabeth

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Stoddard, Rebecca Harding Davis, Anne Moncure

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Crane, and others, Alcott was part of a group of female authors during

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the Gilded age, which was the age that came right after the civil war.

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And she was lauded for addressing women’s issues in

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a modern and candid manner. Their works

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were as one newspaper columnist of the Jesan noted among the

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decided fourth, unquote signs of the

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times. By the

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way, back in the day,

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the signs that they were looking at were the signs that,

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the feminist movement was gaining traction. Women

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were angling for the right to vote and the

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abolitionists who had stirred up the civil war had to redirect their

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energies. And so they were directing it to social change in

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particular Sorrells change with the incoming,

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not only Irish, but also Eastern European immigrants

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that were showing up in New York Harbor, trying to

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escape the revolutions of Europe

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as it went through its own convulsions coming out of its

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long, long 19th

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century. So that’s a little background on Louisa May Alcott, this

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little background on little women. So I’m gonna switch this over to

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Tom now. Cause I’ve rambled long enough. So Tom

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has not read the book as usual, but

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he has seen the movie, and he didn’t wanna talk about Winona

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Ryder. So I’ll kick it over to you. Go ahead. Well, I was gonna say

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I I I was gonna have a question before before answer here because I

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Yeah. I feel like I feel like people don’t give enough

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credit to some of the information that you just read off. Right?

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Mhmm. Because there’s, like, there’s a sense of, like, was this the

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beginning of the end of the women

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should be seen and not heard kind of scenarios? Like, I know it might have

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taken a 100 years. I get that. And I understand that women still felt that

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way in the early 19th, in the early 20th century, probably

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right up until the toward the end of 20th century, but but she was

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really advanced in in this particular area. She was much

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more advanced than people give her credit for, at least I think.

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So, a lot of these social

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reforming movements that eventually

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wound up in the civil rights movements of the latter part of the 20th century

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started if you look at history if you if you look at history

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in cycles rather than as just a straight line,

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began in cycles that started with the 2nd great awakening,

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which began in, like, 17

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no. Sorry. 18/30,

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18/24, somewhere in there, and then slowly

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began to wind out. By the way, out of that came

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the abolitionist movement, which the abolitionist I mean, yes. People had always been

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opposed to slavery in the United States essays, like, since the founding. This is not

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that was not anything new. But the level of

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the temperature on the pot got turned up,

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a lot as the and and the pastors and the

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preachers of the day would particularly those in the fourth in your neck of the

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woods, would claim that the holy spirit was was

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moving through the country and was,

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well, was was was was

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marching through and and, you know, and, you know,

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trampling out the truth. Right? That’s what that’s what they how they would frame

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it. But you also had and you always see this

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with religious revivals and the revivalism in the United States.

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You see a a a religious revival, and then you see a secular

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move as well moving along that with that same energy alongside of it.

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And so the abolitionist movement was both religious and secular. We just have to talk

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about it in both those cut or you do have to rec re reference it

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in both those contexts, but you are correct.

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The feminist movement, the proto feminist movement

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Jesan right alongside that, that abolitionist movement. And

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matter of fact, I’ve long made the argument that the,

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the, middle class and aristocratic,

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Caucasian women of the era, WASP women of

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the era, once the civil war had been fought and

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done, needed somewhere else to put there. Because they were in shell shock just like

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the men were. They needed someplace else to put their energies and

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feminism kind of over the door. Cause there’s a lot, I mean, there was a

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lot of space, you know, a lot of dead men. I mean, whole entire

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family’s taken off. And so who was going to step into those roles? Well, it

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was gonna be women. And so they were empowered and thus they could move forward.

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And that’s what Louisa May Alcott saw as well. Well, especially,

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like and and to your point, men would go off to the civil war, die,

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and women would run their ranches, run their farms, run, like and

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then there was, like, an epiphany almost going, wait. We

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can do this. Like Ding.

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I I feel like, you know, when you when you talk about, like, when you

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talk about, like, I I forget how you worded it a few minutes ago. When

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you talk about books like this like the Literature House on the Prairies and

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the, you know, things like that, being this, like,

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myth you’re you’re talking about myths. I think it would be almost like,

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romanticizing of of what life was like back then as as much

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as it is myth. Right? But I it’s like it’s it’s

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interesting to me because for all the like,

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in in my mind you, people listening here, there’s you

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couldn’t pay me enough to go back to that era and

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live a a life. Like, it was a hard life.

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But for some reason, when you read these and they romanticize

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about it as being like this glorious

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and wonderful and look how, like, life is so different, and we can

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do and, like, it just it makes me kinda chuckle going,

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wait. I I know the actual history about that

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timeline, and nobody would want to nobody would volunteer to go back in that time

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and and live then. So fourth, Tom volunteer to do it. You have nothing to

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worry about because quantum leap told us that you cannot

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leap past your time in which you were born. You just can’t. So you’re stuck

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in your own. You’re stuck in your own, like, that’s it. You’re done. You can’t

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leap past the time you were fourth, that quantum leap set that

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Like, that’s the rule. That’s the rule. That’s how physics works.

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So to understand, you also need a flux capacitor. I was trying to explain this

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to my kid the other day. You need a flux capacitor in order to make

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time travel possible. So we don’t have a flux capacitor. We haven’t even done that

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yet. So We haven’t even gotten there yet, so we’re good. So you don’t have

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to worry about that. That is the one. But on a more serious note,

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I look at I mean, when I read that she

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banged out 500 pages in 3 months Incredible.

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That’s incredible. The only way you get to do that is if you don’t have

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any of the modern conveniences that we’ve got. Or

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the modern distractions. Bingo. That’s right.

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Fourth every convenience, there is a distraction. Just like, you

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know, for every for every revival, there’s a for every religious revival in

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America, there’s a secular component that goes along with it. For every convenience. There’s a

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distraction. So for every, every time saving

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act of like, okay, I don’t have

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Tom. You know, I don’t have to wash my

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clothes down by the river anymore and hang them up and whistle

356
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while I work. I can just shove them into a washing machine.

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00:22:23,779 –> 00:22:27,140
Yeah, that’s great. I can do more at scale, but now I’m going to spend

358
00:22:27,140 –> 00:22:30,659
this time, like doom scrolling on TikTok. Like I’m not gonna, not gonna write,

359
00:22:30,659 –> 00:22:34,505
like, you know, but This is, like, this is one

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of my favorite debate. This is one of my It’s gonna work. One of my

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my classic debates in my house. The whole myth. You talk about

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myths. The whole myth of multitasking because it’s

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a myth. I hate to tell you this people, but it’s a myth. There is

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no way that you are going to be able and capable of functioning

365
00:22:52,275 –> 00:22:56,115
2 completely separate mental functions at the same time. It just doesn’t happen.

366
00:22:56,115 –> 00:22:59,870
Right? Yeah. So but they always throw things at me like that. Like, Oh, well,

367
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I can put the water on for the pasta and go cut the

368
00:23:03,230 –> 00:23:06,830
vegetables. Okay. Are you sitting there boiling the water?

369
00:23:06,830 –> 00:23:10,535
No. You’re turning the stone. That’s not multitasking. The water the the flame

370
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is cooking the water. I can I can put my load of wash in

371
00:23:14,375 –> 00:23:18,049
the washing machine and I can go cook dinner? That is not multitasking.

372
00:23:18,350 –> 00:23:22,029
The washing machine is washing the dishes. Well Back book in those

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days, if you’re down by the river washing the clothes, you’re not at the house

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cooking dinner. Well and here’s the other thing that we have to

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00:23:28,684 –> 00:23:32,385
remember. And I always I always call attention to this.

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So, yes, you’re correct. Multitasking is a myth. I’m going to settle that in your

377
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house. You just tell them I said so, and it’s done. We’re finished. Now Okay.

378
00:23:39,240 –> 00:23:41,720
Okay. Alright. You’re fit I mean, well, you know, sometimes it has to come from

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00:23:41,720 –> 00:23:45,155
a stranger. Sometimes you can’t hear the truth from, like, people in your own family.

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My youngest son will be the biggest wise Wiesenheimer

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that there is. Right? He’ll be like, yeah, but I can walk and chew gum

382
00:23:51,715 –> 00:23:55,470
at the same time. That’s multitasking, dad. And I go, no. That’s

383
00:23:55,470 –> 00:23:59,170
subconscious thought. You don’t have to think to do that. Don’t

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00:23:59,630 –> 00:24:03,284
don’t is this the same person that walks out of your house after you’re

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done doing the lawn work yard work and looks at you and goes, would you

386
00:24:05,845 –> 00:24:09,445
like to have some help? Oh, yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, well, so see there okay.

387
00:24:09,445 –> 00:24:10,920
Yeah. You got problems up and down the hierarchy.

388
00:24:15,880 –> 00:24:19,720
Alright. No. The other thing that I think about often is

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okay. For those people in that

390
00:24:24,154 –> 00:24:27,865
Tom, and we have to really, I think,

391
00:24:27,865 –> 00:24:31,670
regular arms around this idea. So the the

392
00:24:32,050 –> 00:24:35,810
the challenge of history is that we think it’s and the way it’s taught to

393
00:24:35,810 –> 00:24:39,575
in school, and we’ve talked about it on the podcast fourth. It’s not taught in

394
00:24:39,575 –> 00:24:43,275
cycles as if things, you know, return, which they do.

395
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They just come in different forms. Instead, we teach history as a progressive

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arrow that’s always moving forward and never moving backward and always better and better.

397
00:24:51,650 –> 00:24:54,150
Okay. Or j curve that goes up into the right. Okay.

398
00:24:56,394 –> 00:24:59,934
The prob one of the other problems psychologically and just,

399
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I think, epistemically, just to use a word that

400
00:25:04,790 –> 00:25:08,390
encompasses, you know, emotions and psychology and religious thinking

401
00:25:08,390 –> 00:25:11,535
together, epistemically,

402
00:25:12,795 –> 00:25:16,635
we lack humility in our current era, which is one of the things that bugs

403
00:25:16,635 –> 00:25:20,180
me because we think just like you said,

404
00:25:20,400 –> 00:25:24,160
oh, well, back then, it’s terrible. Okay. But if you go back if

405
00:25:24,160 –> 00:25:27,635
you actually look at how they wrote back Jesan, and and Louisa May

406
00:25:27,635 –> 00:25:31,395
Alcott writes this way in Little Women, they’re not writing as if they

407
00:25:31,395 –> 00:25:35,200
think it’s terrible. Yeah. They think it’s

408
00:25:35,200 –> 00:25:38,960
the height of of, like, civilization as

409
00:25:38,960 –> 00:25:42,800
well. But, okay, in fairness though They don’t they don’t know that a washing machine

410
00:25:42,800 –> 00:25:45,615
is coming a 100 years later. They have nothing to know about that. Right. At

411
00:25:45,615 –> 00:25:49,375
that Tom, it was. Because think about it. 50 years before

412
00:25:49,375 –> 00:25:52,195
them or a 100 years before fourth, they are turning, I’m not going back book

413
00:25:52,350 –> 00:25:56,110
living back then. Right. Exactly. I’m not They have the

414
00:25:56,110 –> 00:25:59,809
same thought. I could wash my clothes in a tub in my house.

415
00:26:00,110 –> 00:26:03,934
I don’t have to walk to the river. To the river. Right. Right. This is

416
00:26:04,095 –> 00:26:07,315
and so the the what happened during the 20th century was

417
00:26:08,255 –> 00:26:10,995
we had explosions that occurred,

418
00:26:12,400 –> 00:26:16,100
in, in the progress of our technological tool making.

419
00:26:16,559 –> 00:26:20,340
I mean, we went from Kitty Hawk in 1906.

420
00:26:22,065 –> 00:26:25,765
Yeah. Somewhere around there Tom, like, going to the moon in 1969.

421
00:26:26,544 –> 00:26:29,530
Right. That’s insane. That doesn’t happen

422
00:26:30,230 –> 00:26:33,910
in in in general. That doesn’t happen in the

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00:26:33,910 –> 00:26:37,510
history of the world. I mean, we went from we went from being on

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farms and understanding everything about

425
00:26:41,255 –> 00:26:45,011
agriculture for 5000 years Tom

426
00:26:45,015 –> 00:26:48,420
in 300 years, 250, really,

427
00:26:48,720 –> 00:26:51,140
industrializing almost everything in the Writers world.

428
00:26:52,720 –> 00:26:56,105
That’s just nuts. That’s that’s a compression of pro

429
00:26:56,265 –> 00:27:00,105
of of of speed of technology based on what we could do,

430
00:27:00,105 –> 00:27:03,145
which, by the way, is what’s freaking us all out right now with AI because

431
00:27:03,145 –> 00:27:06,790
we just went through the thing we call AI.

432
00:27:06,850 –> 00:27:10,390
We just went through all of this compression within the industrial revolution,

433
00:27:10,850 –> 00:27:14,565
and then we went through the compression with tech with, the computers and

434
00:27:14,565 –> 00:27:17,925
all of that. And now we’re getting ready to go through another compression, and it’s

435
00:27:17,925 –> 00:27:21,045
speeding us, speeding us, speed up. That’s the at least it feels like to us,

436
00:27:21,045 –> 00:27:24,159
it’s speeding up. That’s the part that’s freaking us out, I think,

437
00:27:24,779 –> 00:27:28,480
which is why leadership is important. I was up to say that at the end,

438
00:27:28,700 –> 00:27:32,375
because that’s what’ll get you through that. No. Winona Writers, come on now.

439
00:27:32,375 –> 00:27:35,894
Don’t don’t dodge the question. Talk about the movie. Come on. You like the I

440
00:27:35,894 –> 00:27:38,615
I watched the trailer for the movie before I because I spent all years. It

441
00:27:38,615 –> 00:27:42,310
came out in 1994. fourth movie adaptation of of of little The new one with

442
00:27:42,310 –> 00:27:45,910
Emma Watson came out in, 19, 2019. There was

443
00:27:45,910 –> 00:27:49,534
a newer a newer version. I didn’t even know that you could even get

444
00:27:49,934 –> 00:27:53,294
so I was reading this book and I thought they they can’t possibly make this

445
00:27:53,294 –> 00:27:56,600
movie today. Like, they couldn’t possibly turn this into a film. Like, how would it,

446
00:27:56,679 –> 00:28:00,200
But apparently, I was wrong. So alright. 2019, Emma

447
00:28:00,200 –> 00:28:03,900
Watson. So, no. I

448
00:28:04,285 –> 00:28:07,805
I I think this is the first actual memory I have is, from

449
00:28:07,805 –> 00:28:11,565
Winona Ryder in an actual movie. I don’t know if she did the movie before

450
00:28:11,565 –> 00:28:14,299
this, but it’s the first memory I have of her in a movie. And I

451
00:28:14,299 –> 00:28:17,980
just remember thinking, she’s really cool. And she was, like,

452
00:28:17,980 –> 00:28:21,554
20 something when she did this. Right? Like, 22, 23 years old. Yeah. Something like

453
00:28:21,554 –> 00:28:25,315
that. This movie. Yeah. So I I just thought She’s now

454
00:28:25,315 –> 00:28:28,520
seen a few summers herself. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.

455
00:28:31,940 –> 00:28:35,385
I will I will say, though, if she was 20 3 when she did this

456
00:28:35,385 –> 00:28:38,205
movie, she is a little older than me, so I’ll just leave it at that.

457
00:28:38,345 –> 00:28:41,544
Not by a lot, but she’s a little older than me. Anyway, but no. But

458
00:28:41,544 –> 00:28:45,159
in again, you’re right. I saw the movie. You know, I

459
00:28:45,159 –> 00:28:48,880
I gotta I have to admit when I when I was asked to go watch

460
00:28:48,880 –> 00:28:52,495
the movie by my spouse, I said, are you out of

461
00:28:52,495 –> 00:28:56,015
your mind? What and what what would make you think I would wanna see this

462
00:28:56,015 –> 00:28:58,755
movie? Again, I was

463
00:29:00,940 –> 00:29:04,700
20 some 20 years old, something like that, and a guy,

464
00:29:04,700 –> 00:29:06,880
by the way. So, like, you know, I was thinking to myself,

465
00:29:08,794 –> 00:29:12,485
fine. It was one of those, like, okay. I’m handcuffed, like, take me to the

466
00:29:12,485 –> 00:29:12,985
movie.

467
00:29:16,520 –> 00:29:20,040
I was pleasantly surprised. I thought the movie was good. I thought the

468
00:29:20,440 –> 00:29:23,640
if they now, again, to fourth point, I didn’t read the book, so I don’t

469
00:29:23,640 –> 00:29:27,434
know how close because that that’s the whole book movie turning. Right? Like,

470
00:29:27,434 –> 00:29:31,275
that everyone talks about. The books are the books are always so much better than

471
00:29:31,275 –> 00:29:34,990
the movies well, today anyway. Back back a while back,

472
00:29:35,050 –> 00:29:38,730
the movies and books were pretty darn close. Mhmm. So we didn’t have the

473
00:29:38,730 –> 00:29:42,385
same issues where people are writing, you know, 700 page books and

474
00:29:42,385 –> 00:29:46,145
turning it into an hour and 20 minute movie. You know, like Well

475
00:29:46,145 –> 00:29:49,870
well, when you look at Little Women, how it’s written, the structure of it, it’s

476
00:29:49,870 –> 00:29:53,390
structured at least the first, I would say 10 to 12

477
00:29:53,390 –> 00:29:57,205
chapters are structured based on dialogue alone. Right. Like,

478
00:29:57,205 –> 00:30:00,345
there’s very little description. So she wrote it to be

479
00:30:04,130 –> 00:30:07,889
well, they didn’t know the word cinematic because they didn’t have cinema, but she

480
00:30:07,889 –> 00:30:11,730
wrote it to be and she was driven by thinking

481
00:30:11,730 –> 00:30:15,075
play. Right? Then we could turn this into a play. At the at that time

482
00:30:15,075 –> 00:30:18,755
frame, like, she was turning, I I could see people acting this out. It she

483
00:30:18,835 –> 00:30:22,200
they still had actors back then. They were just Yeah. On stage and not on

484
00:30:22,200 –> 00:30:24,759
screen. So I I agree with you. I think that there was a part of

485
00:30:24,759 –> 00:30:28,360
it that she was thinking, I have to write this in a way that somebody

486
00:30:28,360 –> 00:30:32,045
could act this out. Like, somebody could actually showcase what I’m thinking and

487
00:30:32,045 –> 00:30:35,725
feeling from the writing. So but I think that they did that really well in

488
00:30:35,725 –> 00:30:39,565
the in the 1994 movie. I I think Winona Ryder was awesome,

489
00:30:39,565 –> 00:30:43,379
and, you know, I think it I think it definitely launched her career

490
00:30:43,379 –> 00:30:46,919
for sure. I think she she became more and more popular at that point.

491
00:30:46,980 –> 00:30:49,535
Yeah. She so Reality Bites came out in

492
00:30:52,015 –> 00:30:54,195
92? Yeah. But that wasn’t.

493
00:30:56,095 –> 00:30:59,809
Stop it. You be quiet. You you writers, sir. And

494
00:30:59,809 –> 00:31:03,409
then Heather’s, which was I’ll I’ll just

495
00:31:03,570 –> 00:31:06,285
I’ll do I’ll pull the Joe Rogan. I’m just gonna look it up because I

496
00:31:06,285 –> 00:31:08,065
don’t remember when Heather’s came out.

497
00:31:10,605 –> 00:31:14,270
Heather’s was let’s see. I am

498
00:31:14,350 –> 00:31:16,770
this is the sound of me looking this up. 1988.

499
00:31:18,110 –> 00:31:20,290
Yes. 1988. Thank you. Yes.

500
00:31:22,360 –> 00:31:25,575
Which, you know, that goober Christian Slater,

501
00:31:27,075 –> 00:31:30,355
who, by the way, he has become a very goobery fellow. He he really has.

502
00:31:30,355 –> 00:31:34,050
Like, I I’m not gonna something happened to him. He became he

503
00:31:34,050 –> 00:31:37,810
just became weird. Anyway, it doesn’t matter. Point is, so

504
00:31:37,810 –> 00:31:41,625
Heathers is 88, which Heathers I mean, Winona

505
00:31:41,625 –> 00:31:45,225
Ryder fans will say that that really was the film that

506
00:31:45,225 –> 00:31:47,245
cemented her, the public zeitgeist.

507
00:31:50,250 –> 00:31:53,130
And I think Little Women was one of those scripts that kinda just came to

508
00:31:53,130 –> 00:31:56,970
her because she was the hot it girl, you know, at the at that time

509
00:31:56,982 –> 00:32:00,815
fourth hot it actress. I shouldn’t say girl. But the hot yet actress at

510
00:32:00,815 –> 00:32:04,655
that time, just like with, the literature women that came out in

511
00:32:04,655 –> 00:32:08,095
2019, we’re looking this up with, yes, you are correct, Emma

512
00:32:08,095 –> 00:32:08,595
Watson,

513
00:32:11,520 –> 00:32:15,360
something Ronan. I don’t know. I think I know I can’t pronounce her first

514
00:32:15,360 –> 00:32:18,985
name. It doesn’t matter. And, Florence Pugh,

515
00:32:20,565 –> 00:32:24,025
who I’m not a giant fan of. And then that fellow

516
00:32:24,085 –> 00:32:27,690
Timothy with 2 e’s and a little oom lot over one of his

517
00:32:27,690 –> 00:32:31,140
e’s Timothy Charlemagne. Yeah. Charlemagne, Charlemagne,

518
00:32:31,140 –> 00:32:31,640
whatever.

519
00:32:35,775 –> 00:32:38,995
Anyway and then Meryl Streep as aunt March.

520
00:32:41,054 –> 00:32:44,880
Nice to see Meryl Streep getting work. So you can’t

521
00:32:44,880 –> 00:32:48,639
have anything against Meryl Streep. Come on, dude. I just

522
00:32:48,720 –> 00:32:52,419
so we just we literally just covered Karen Blix Baroness Jesan Blixson’s

523
00:32:52,480 –> 00:32:56,264
work last episode, in in one zero five. You should

524
00:32:56,264 –> 00:32:59,945
go back and listen to that. Jesan gothic tales. Fun fact

525
00:32:59,945 –> 00:33:02,365
about Karen Blixson, she was a Danish

526
00:33:04,330 –> 00:33:08,030
aristocrat, basically, who moved to

527
00:33:08,170 –> 00:33:11,855
Nairobi, Kenya with her first husband, who turned out to be

528
00:33:11,855 –> 00:33:15,475
a philanderer and a, and a cheat

529
00:33:15,934 –> 00:33:19,740
in Africa, which is interesting, during

530
00:33:20,360 –> 00:33:23,820
the colonial period of European expansion.

531
00:33:24,360 –> 00:33:27,515
And she wrote about Wait. What again Hold on. Let me let me get the

532
00:33:27,515 –> 00:33:31,115
surprise. Wait. There there was somebody from Europe that went to

533
00:33:31,115 –> 00:33:34,580
Africa and was disingenuous? No. Let me show you my shocked

534
00:33:34,580 –> 00:33:38,420
face. Oh, oh, I’m about to play something else on you

535
00:33:38,420 –> 00:33:41,875
about the Baroness Jesan Blixit. Go ahead. I’m sorry. So

536
00:33:42,035 –> 00:33:45,715
her husband was not only unfaithful, but her husband also passed on to

537
00:33:45,715 –> 00:33:49,555
her the, the glorious disease

538
00:33:49,555 –> 00:33:53,390
of syphilis, which she had for the re well, she claimed she

539
00:33:53,390 –> 00:33:56,590
had for the remainder of her life, but actually she might have just had an

540
00:33:56,590 –> 00:34:00,370
autoimmune disease that came about because of the mercury they used

541
00:34:00,775 –> 00:34:02,155
to cure her syphilis.

542
00:34:04,535 –> 00:34:08,234
Right. Still a baroness, by the way, still a baroness.

543
00:34:08,295 –> 00:34:11,780
And she wrote about all of her experiences and put it in her second

544
00:34:11,780 –> 00:34:15,480
book, which was called Out of Africa,

545
00:34:16,765 –> 00:34:19,585
which was nominated for best picture

546
00:34:20,364 –> 00:34:23,025
in, like, 1984 and best director.

547
00:34:24,300 –> 00:34:27,660
And the woman who portrayed the Baroness, Karen

548
00:34:27,660 –> 00:34:31,020
Blixson, Ezeac Dennison was her pen

549
00:34:31,020 –> 00:34:33,280
name, was Meryl Streep.

550
00:34:43,010 –> 00:34:46,230
6 pixels of film separation here on the podcast. Right?

551
00:34:47,530 –> 00:34:51,090
Yeah. Africa and Literature Women. We got

552
00:34:51,090 –> 00:34:54,825
it. We got it in there. We got a not 6 pixel. Sorry.

553
00:34:54,825 –> 00:34:58,525
Six degrees of separation. 6 degrees. But yeah. So okay.

554
00:34:58,665 –> 00:35:02,490
So so what about the powers of books and

555
00:35:02,490 –> 00:35:05,770
stories to create cultural memory? Because I we now I mean, yes. I’m doing a

556
00:35:05,770 –> 00:35:09,585
book podcast for a whole because nobody reads. Right? Like,

557
00:35:09,585 –> 00:35:12,705
trying to bring these books to people’s attention. Right? That’s really the point of this

558
00:35:12,705 –> 00:35:16,005
podcast is to bring these books to people’s attention and to encourage literacy

559
00:35:16,545 –> 00:35:19,205
and to encourage literate behavior. Right?

560
00:35:20,849 –> 00:35:24,609
Books were very powerful in creating cultural memory, for a

561
00:35:24,609 –> 00:35:28,210
long stretch of our history, and it is only the United States history. And it

562
00:35:28,210 –> 00:35:32,015
is only within recent times, I would say within the last 25

563
00:35:32,015 –> 00:35:34,355
years, that that that reading has declined,

564
00:35:35,375 –> 00:35:39,190
precipitously. But

565
00:35:39,190 –> 00:35:42,650
books create cultural memories. Like, if you go and look at

566
00:35:43,829 –> 00:35:47,670
you and I were actually talking about this. I was looking at Pauline Kale, the

567
00:35:47,670 –> 00:35:50,985
the writers Paul Pauline Kael’s reviews of of films,

568
00:35:52,245 –> 00:35:55,465
that she did. She had a long a long career. And,

569
00:35:56,100 –> 00:35:59,540
you know, in her critique of the film, she would note what the source

570
00:35:59,540 –> 00:36:03,380
material of the writing was. And 90% of the films that she

571
00:36:03,380 –> 00:36:07,015
reviewed that were made before, I would say, because she died in

572
00:36:07,015 –> 00:36:10,855
1992, or in the early nineties. I won’t say 19.82, but she died in the

573
00:36:10,855 –> 00:36:14,154
early nineties. 90% of the films that she reviewed

574
00:36:15,000 –> 00:36:18,760
during her career came from a short story or a

575
00:36:18,760 –> 00:36:22,485
novel. They were adapted from some source material. So there

576
00:36:22,485 –> 00:36:26,325
was strong source material underneath that was supporting the

577
00:36:26,325 –> 00:36:29,765
development of this secondary material known

578
00:36:29,765 –> 00:36:33,460
as film. Right? And

579
00:36:33,460 –> 00:36:36,740
we, by the way, we’re see this currently today. So the show that’s on,

580
00:36:37,619 –> 00:36:41,425
Hulu, and I canceled Hulu, so I haven’t seen it, but I’ve heard

581
00:36:41,425 –> 00:36:45,205
a lot about it. Shogun. Yes. Loved it.

582
00:36:45,265 –> 00:36:48,900
Okay. It’s based off the James Clavill book. Clavill. Yeah. Yeah.

583
00:36:48,900 –> 00:36:52,660
Right? Again, strong source material. Right? And then

584
00:36:52,660 –> 00:36:56,500
you’re building that secondary thing off of it. And now, of course, you’ll probably have

585
00:36:56,500 –> 00:36:59,755
a Shogun podcast, so that’s gonna be, like, the third thing out over the over

586
00:36:59,755 –> 00:37:03,595
there. So The Shogun podcast was corresponding with the episodes. Oh, it was

587
00:37:03,595 –> 00:37:06,630
corresponding with the episodes. Okay. They they did a

588
00:37:07,029 –> 00:37:10,710
phenomenal job covering all the bases on this one. Like, they really did a

589
00:37:10,789 –> 00:37:13,430
the articles, there were a lot of there was there was a lot of writing

590
00:37:13,430 –> 00:37:16,825
about it, as it was happening. There was a lot of, like, there was a

591
00:37:16,825 –> 00:37:20,505
lot of information. So, I mean, I remember the first show

592
00:37:20,505 –> 00:37:23,890
that came out in 1980. I mean, I was just a kid at the time,

593
00:37:23,890 –> 00:37:27,570
but I remembered I didn’t remember all the details of the actual

594
00:37:27,570 –> 00:37:31,205
show, but I remember that Shogun was a show back

595
00:37:31,205 –> 00:37:34,405
then. Yeah. And now you can’t really find the original on it, but from what

596
00:37:34,405 –> 00:37:38,165
I’m from what I’m reading and all the comparing and contrasting, that

597
00:37:38,165 –> 00:37:41,750
this version was enormously better, like,

598
00:37:41,910 –> 00:37:45,510
like, night and day better from Well, that’s what happens. You go back to the

599
00:37:45,510 –> 00:37:48,515
source material. Right? We were just saying the book versus the movie kinda debate. Right?

600
00:37:48,515 –> 00:37:52,135
Like, which one’s better? Okay. So I don’t wanna talk about which one’s better,

601
00:37:52,194 –> 00:37:55,954
but I wanna address the power of the book, the power of the book

602
00:37:55,954 –> 00:37:57,575
to create cultural memory.

603
00:38:05,974 –> 00:38:08,694
Is the Internet gonna is the Internet I’ll I’ll frame it this way. I’ll frame

604
00:38:08,694 –> 00:38:11,835
it as a counterfactual question. Is the Internet going to create

605
00:38:12,535 –> 00:38:16,340
any cultural memory, or is it just gonna destroy all of it and

606
00:38:16,340 –> 00:38:19,480
we’re just done? Like, we’re done creating cultural myths and memories?

607
00:38:20,420 –> 00:38:24,185
I think I think it will I think it will change it

608
00:38:24,245 –> 00:38:28,005
but not eliminate it. And what I mean by that is, like, think about okay.

609
00:38:28,005 –> 00:38:31,660
So Shogun was written in the mid

610
00:38:31,660 –> 00:38:35,040
9 the mid 20th century, about 1600

611
00:38:35,579 –> 00:38:39,099
Japan. Right? So in Little Women, but the here’s the

612
00:38:39,099 –> 00:38:42,825
difference. So in in the middle of 20th century, Clavell was

613
00:38:42,825 –> 00:38:46,505
able to do all the research, find all the information, and

614
00:38:46,505 –> 00:38:49,005
write a book based on the information that he found.

615
00:38:50,030 –> 00:38:52,290
Alcott or or Alisa

616
00:38:54,170 –> 00:38:57,964
Books May Alcott lived it. I think that’s

617
00:38:57,964 –> 00:39:01,005
gonna be the difference. Right? Like so it’s not that we’re not gonna be able

618
00:39:01,005 –> 00:39:04,605
to create the cultural memories based on it. It’s just the cultural memory is gonna

619
00:39:04,605 –> 00:39:07,185
be based on on research instead of

620
00:39:08,470 –> 00:39:12,230
instead of experience. Writers, and it’s interesting that you point this out because

621
00:39:12,230 –> 00:39:16,065
Greta Gerwig I forgot this, and then it clicked over in my head. But Greta

622
00:39:16,065 –> 00:39:19,744
Gerwig directed Literature Women. Greta Gerwig was also the

623
00:39:19,744 –> 00:39:23,345
director of the Barbie movie. Of the Barbie

624
00:39:23,345 –> 00:39:26,870
movie? Okay.

625
00:39:26,930 –> 00:39:30,550
So, anyway, so

626
00:39:31,810 –> 00:39:35,595
but, again but that’s but that’s my I guess, that’s kind of

627
00:39:35,595 –> 00:39:39,215
my point. Right? So people like her, they’re gonna they’re not they don’t need

628
00:39:39,755 –> 00:39:43,359
they don’t need to do all this cultural research in order Tom produce cultural

629
00:39:43,359 –> 00:39:47,060
memory, right, which is what she’s gonna Barbie’s gonna be one of those things.

630
00:39:47,280 –> 00:39:51,035
Little girls watching Barbie today are gonna remember it 50 years from now.

631
00:39:51,035 –> 00:39:54,355
Right? Like, the it’s gonna be an impact well, we think. There there’s a possibility.

632
00:39:54,355 –> 00:39:58,109
Anyway, the right? If it’s on the

633
00:39:58,109 –> 00:40:01,869
stage what do you got? Oscars fourth crying out loud. Right? Anyway but,

634
00:40:03,390 –> 00:40:07,065
sorry. There are some other that I dropped

635
00:40:07,065 –> 00:40:10,665
Greta Gerwig on you, and that just derails your entire thought

636
00:40:10,665 –> 00:40:11,165
process.

637
00:40:14,430 –> 00:40:18,190
There are underlying themes in Barbie that are very important to society. I’m just

638
00:40:18,270 –> 00:40:21,230
there are underlying themes, but you have to look for them and you have to

639
00:40:21,230 –> 00:40:24,785
really you have to it’s a reach, but whatever. Right? Anyway,

640
00:40:25,085 –> 00:40:28,845
but, but but I think I think that’s where the paradigm

641
00:40:28,845 –> 00:40:32,385
shift is gonna happen. Right? I think it’s gonna be less about people writing.

642
00:40:33,330 –> 00:40:37,090
Think about think about who’s writing about their experiences right now. It’s

643
00:40:37,090 –> 00:40:40,550
the Zuckerbergs and the Elon Musks of the world that

644
00:40:40,610 –> 00:40:44,185
that, writers, that’s not so much

645
00:40:44,805 –> 00:40:48,565
like, Louisa May Alcott was talking about her life, and we’re looking at that life

646
00:40:48,565 –> 00:40:52,210
romanticizing it about 200 years ago fourth, well, not quite 200, a

647
00:40:52,210 –> 00:40:56,050
150, a 160 years ago. I don’t think

648
00:40:56,050 –> 00:40:59,010
a 160 years from now, people are gonna be looking at Elon Musk the same

649
00:40:59,010 –> 00:41:02,595
way or Mark Zuckerberg Zuckerberg the same way or Jeff Bezos the same way as

650
00:41:02,595 –> 00:41:06,115
we look at Louis Malecott. They’re not

651
00:41:07,880 –> 00:41:11,260
what what we may see is maybe JK Rowling’s,

652
00:41:12,119 –> 00:41:15,880
but the type of writing that she has is not that those aren’t gonna be

653
00:41:15,880 –> 00:41:18,995
cultural memories. Those are gonna be, like, those are gonna be

654
00:41:19,935 –> 00:41:23,535
because, like, the kids today who are in their mid to

655
00:41:23,535 –> 00:41:27,290
late twenties who read the Harry Potters of the world growing

656
00:41:27,290 –> 00:41:30,670
up, that’s cultural memory. That’s fine. But the

657
00:41:31,010 –> 00:41:34,385
the the subject matter of that book is not

658
00:41:34,385 –> 00:41:38,065
gonna create a 150 years from now cultural memories

659
00:41:38,065 –> 00:41:41,505
because these people will be gone. They’ll be dead and gone. Right? So it’s not

660
00:41:41,505 –> 00:41:44,630
gonna be the same way. Because and and

661
00:41:45,650 –> 00:41:48,050
I think the I think some of those I think some of those days are

662
00:41:48,050 –> 00:41:51,144
gone, I guess, is what I’m getting at. So, like, people I can’t remember the

663
00:41:51,144 –> 00:41:54,744
author’s name, but the person who wrote, like, The Outsiders. Right? Like, what they grew

664
00:41:54,744 –> 00:41:58,540
up in they grew up in the seventies. The the the gang the

665
00:41:58,540 –> 00:42:02,380
gang environment in the seventies was very different than it is today. But the

666
00:42:02,380 –> 00:42:05,040
but the the book and the movie, The Outsiders,

667
00:42:06,045 –> 00:42:09,565
could potentially be that in a 150 years, where it’s cultural

668
00:42:09,565 –> 00:42:13,005
memory where like, that’s so sure. Because the guy lived in that era. He like,

669
00:42:13,005 –> 00:42:16,850
he understood that era. Like, whereas Shogun was more research and I

670
00:42:16,850 –> 00:42:20,450
think more of that is gonna start turning. Mhmm. That we’re gonna have

671
00:42:20,450 –> 00:42:24,265
research and and and, research and cultural memory based on

672
00:42:24,265 –> 00:42:27,964
on that type of research than it is actual, experience.

673
00:42:29,224 –> 00:42:32,744
Well, the outsiders was directed by Francis Ford Coppola

674
00:42:32,904 –> 00:42:36,549
Coppola. Right. Whose daughter and son,

675
00:42:37,170 –> 00:42:40,930
daughter Sofia Coppola, also worked with Greta

676
00:42:40,930 –> 00:42:44,605
Gerwig and gave her her shot. So now you can go from the

677
00:42:44,605 –> 00:42:48,065
outsiders to little women, to the Barbie movie.

678
00:42:51,630 –> 00:42:53,730
All in one fell swoop. Alright. Here we go.

679
00:42:56,270 –> 00:42:59,865
Read on fearless leader. Read on. By the

680
00:42:59,865 –> 00:43:03,625
way, what lesson should leaders no. This is this is actually a a last legitimate

681
00:43:03,625 –> 00:43:06,265
question because, yeah, we do have to move forward here. We are gonna kinda get

682
00:43:06,265 –> 00:43:09,920
a little bit bogged down here. So gotta rescue the narrative from

683
00:43:09,920 –> 00:43:13,599
itself. What can leaders take from that,

684
00:43:13,599 –> 00:43:17,215
though? Like, if if I’m in an organization, an organization’s

685
00:43:17,435 –> 00:43:21,115
do function, institutions do function under cultural

686
00:43:21,115 –> 00:43:24,860
myths. We don’t like to talk a lot about it because it kinda makes us

687
00:43:24,860 –> 00:43:28,460
feel icky as Americans, but it’s

688
00:43:28,460 –> 00:43:32,112
true. Like, this is why we cover the constitution on our podcast

689
00:43:32,300 –> 00:43:36,105
because it creates not only cultural myths, but it’s also

690
00:43:36,105 –> 00:43:39,945
the story. It’s part of the the framework of the

691
00:43:39,945 –> 00:43:43,200
story of America. And you have to know what the framework is. That way you

692
00:43:43,200 –> 00:43:46,560
can lead inside of that framework. If you don’t wanna lead inside of that

693
00:43:46,560 –> 00:43:49,940
framework, then we have to have a different kind of conversation.

694
00:43:53,694 –> 00:43:57,535
Right? How can leaders, you know, lead in a

695
00:43:57,535 –> 00:44:00,450
place where or lead from a space where those cultural

696
00:44:02,270 –> 00:44:05,250
where the cultural artifacts are built on research, not,

697
00:44:06,510 –> 00:44:10,205
not a not a myth making kind of thing. Because our natural tendency

698
00:44:10,205 –> 00:44:13,425
is to make myths, not to do research. The

699
00:44:14,365 –> 00:44:18,080
the the the way to to to think scientifically, that’s a that’s

700
00:44:18,080 –> 00:44:21,760
a in the course of human life, that is a human

701
00:44:21,760 –> 00:44:25,525
civilization. That is a radically recent invention. Well,

702
00:44:25,525 –> 00:44:29,145
just remember Tom, it’s it’s you’re thinking scientifically

703
00:44:29,205 –> 00:44:32,965
to be creative. It’s it’s almost like a cause and effect thing. Right? That’s not

704
00:44:33,125 –> 00:44:36,609
Right. It’s It’s not like you’re thinking sign and and, like, readers is

705
00:44:36,609 –> 00:44:40,450
dictating research doesn’t tend or doesn’t have to dictate

706
00:44:40,450 –> 00:44:44,225
the writing. Creativity can still dictate the writing. So in the same sense,

707
00:44:45,005 –> 00:44:48,605
the you know, research doesn’t have to dictate the leadership or the leadership

708
00:44:48,605 –> 00:44:52,390
style. It just has to it has to be there for foundational

709
00:44:52,530 –> 00:44:56,290
purposes, number 1, or number 2. And and and I

710
00:44:56,290 –> 00:45:00,025
I literature yesterday I know it was Sunday. For those of you

711
00:45:00,025 –> 00:45:03,704
listening, we we record this on a Monday. Yesterday was Sunday. You made

712
00:45:03,704 –> 00:45:07,170
reference to mother’s day yesterday. So, anyway, I had

713
00:45:07,170 –> 00:45:10,850
a very long conversation with the with

714
00:45:10,850 –> 00:45:14,550
the head of the, the history department at a local university

715
00:45:14,610 –> 00:45:17,695
here. Him and I, we’ve known each other a long time. I bumped into him

716
00:45:17,695 –> 00:45:20,975
in the supermarket. We were having this very long conversation and I’ll circle this back.

717
00:45:20,975 –> 00:45:24,355
The reason why I brought him up was we were talking about

718
00:45:25,390 –> 00:45:28,750
why have we not with all of the research that we have available to us,

719
00:45:28,750 –> 00:45:32,030
with all of the data that we have available to us, why have we not

720
00:45:32,030 –> 00:45:35,855
figured out a way to stop history from repeating

721
00:45:35,855 –> 00:45:39,235
itself over and over and over again? Oh, because

722
00:45:39,375 –> 00:45:43,080
we still have this problem today. We still have

723
00:45:43,080 –> 00:45:46,680
this problem. And by the way, just pick a

724
00:45:46,680 –> 00:45:50,200
facet of life. It it it doesn’t even matter. Like, him and I were were

725
00:45:50,280 –> 00:45:54,095
we were literally we’re halfway joking and halfway

726
00:45:54,095 –> 00:45:57,855
serious about, like, well, you know, the way that the way that people

727
00:45:57,855 –> 00:46:01,420
view marriage and the way that people view, you know,

728
00:46:01,640 –> 00:46:05,400
war, and the way that people view famine, and the way people these things

729
00:46:05,400 –> 00:46:09,160
have all been cyclical over the course of the 5000 years of history of

730
00:46:09,193 –> 00:46:12,185
humanities written history. But yet, we

731
00:46:12,985 –> 00:46:16,585
how is it how is it even remotely possible that we have not

732
00:46:16,585 –> 00:46:20,410
figured out a way to stop this cycle of happening? It’s

733
00:46:20,710 –> 00:46:24,470
fascinating to me. It blows my mind every time I think about

734
00:46:24,470 –> 00:46:27,510
it. And to have somebody of his authoritative value

735
00:46:29,195 –> 00:46:32,475
and I say authoritative value because the university that I’m talking about is a very

736
00:46:32,475 –> 00:46:36,235
big university. Mhmm. And he is the head of the history department. He this is

737
00:46:36,235 –> 00:46:39,680
a man who knows what he’s talking about when it comes to history,

738
00:46:40,940 –> 00:46:44,735
and he has not been able to figure it out. So

739
00:46:45,515 –> 00:46:48,015
I might have an answer for him. I might have a thought,

740
00:46:49,355 –> 00:46:52,395
but I’m gonna hold that question for our next segment. So back to the book,

741
00:46:52,395 –> 00:46:56,040
back to little women, back to this cultural artifact.

742
00:46:56,340 –> 00:46:59,880
Well, yes, this cultural myth of little women.

743
00:47:01,625 –> 00:47:05,405
We’re gonna, move forward or actually move backward a little bit,

744
00:47:06,184 –> 00:47:07,645
and we’re going to talk about

745
00:47:11,770 –> 00:47:15,550
we’re gonna talk about a letter that they received because men are not really

746
00:47:17,050 –> 00:47:20,545
other than Lawrence are not featured highly in,

747
00:47:20,785 –> 00:47:24,545
prominently in literature women because it is focused on women, but there

748
00:47:24,545 –> 00:47:28,300
is a man who is missing from the narrative. And

749
00:47:28,300 –> 00:47:31,980
by the way, a book was written about him recently by an author who

750
00:47:31,980 –> 00:47:35,675
looked at this book and said, hey, there’s something missing here. And then

751
00:47:35,675 –> 00:47:39,035
she crafted a, crafted a narrative. It’s very

752
00:47:39,035 –> 00:47:42,710
interesting. I’m gonna talk a little about that in the next section here. So back

753
00:47:42,710 –> 00:47:46,310
to the book, back to literature women by Louisa May Alcott. I’m

754
00:47:46,310 –> 00:47:50,150
gonna pick up here with this piece here. Well, dearies, how

755
00:47:50,150 –> 00:47:53,665
have you got on today? There was much to do getting the boxes ready to

756
00:47:53,665 –> 00:47:57,105
go tomorrow that I didn’t come home to dinner. Has anyone called Beth? How was

757
00:47:57,105 –> 00:48:00,244
your cold Meg? Joe, you book tired to death. Come and kiss me, baby.

758
00:48:01,060 –> 00:48:04,900
While making these maternal inquiries, missus March got her wet things off,

759
00:48:04,900 –> 00:48:08,260
her warm slippers on, and sitting down in the easy chair drew Amy to her

760
00:48:08,260 –> 00:48:11,694
lap, preparing to enjoy the happiest hour of her busy day.

761
00:48:12,234 –> 00:48:15,535
The girls flew about trying to make things comfortable each in her own way.

762
00:48:16,490 –> 00:48:20,250
Meg arranged the tea table. Joe brought the book and set chairs dropping,

763
00:48:20,250 –> 00:48:23,849
overturning, and leaders everything she touched. Beth trotted to and fro

764
00:48:23,849 –> 00:48:27,515
between parlor pitch parlor kitchen, quiet and busy while Amy gave

765
00:48:27,515 –> 00:48:30,335
directions to everyone. As she sat with her hands folded.

766
00:48:31,275 –> 00:48:34,990
As they gathered about the table, Ms. March said Mrs. March said with a

767
00:48:34,990 –> 00:48:38,210
particularly happy face, I’ve got a treat for you after supper.

768
00:48:39,390 –> 00:48:43,005
A quick writers smile went round like a streak of sunshine. Beth clapped her

769
00:48:43,005 –> 00:48:46,845
hands regardless of the biscuit she held, and Joe tossed up her napkin turning,

770
00:48:46,845 –> 00:48:50,500
a letter, a leaders, cheers for father. Yes. A nice

771
00:48:50,500 –> 00:48:53,940
long letter. He is well, and he thinks you you shall get through the cold

772
00:48:53,940 –> 00:48:57,460
season better than we feared. He sends all sorts of loving wishes for Christmas and

773
00:48:57,460 –> 00:49:00,964
in a special message to you girls, said missus March, patting her

774
00:49:00,964 –> 00:49:04,724
pocket as if she had a treasure there. Hurry and get done. Don’t

775
00:49:04,724 –> 00:49:08,160
stop to quirk your little finger and simper over your plate, Amy, cried Jo, choking

776
00:49:08,160 –> 00:49:11,200
on her tea and dropping her bread butter side down on the carpet in her

777
00:49:11,200 –> 00:49:15,040
haste to get out to the tree. Beth ate no

778
00:49:15,040 –> 00:49:18,725
more, but crept away to sit in her shadowy corner and book over the

779
00:49:18,725 –> 00:49:21,545
delight to come till others were ready.

780
00:49:22,645 –> 00:49:25,730
I think it’s so splendid in father to go as a chaplain When he was

781
00:49:25,730 –> 00:49:28,950
too old to be drafted and not strong enough for a soldier said Meg warmly

782
00:49:29,730 –> 00:49:32,955
don’t. I wish I could go as a drummer of Yvonne, what’s his name or

783
00:49:32,955 –> 00:49:36,255
nurse so I could help him and be near him, exclaimed Joe with a groan.

784
00:49:36,635 –> 00:49:39,355
It must be very disagreeable to sleep at a tent and eat all sorts of

785
00:49:39,355 –> 00:49:42,799
bad tasting things Tom drink out of a Ted bug site. Amy, When will he

786
00:49:42,799 –> 00:49:46,480
come home? Barney asked Beth with little quiver in her voice. Not for

787
00:49:46,480 –> 00:49:49,291
many months, dear, unless he is sick, he will stay and do his work faithfully

788
00:49:49,291 –> 00:49:52,684
leaders long as he can. Now we won’t ask for him back a minute sooner

789
00:49:52,684 –> 00:49:55,325
than he can be spared. Now, come and hear the

790
00:49:55,378 –> 00:49:59,090
leaders. They all drew to the fire, mother in

791
00:49:59,090 –> 00:50:02,290
the big chair with Beth at her feet, Meg and Amy perched on either arm

792
00:50:02,290 –> 00:50:05,010
of the chair, Joe leaning on the back where no one could see any sign

793
00:50:05,010 –> 00:50:08,755
of emotion if the letter should happen to be touching. Very few letters are written

794
00:50:08,755 –> 00:50:12,115
in those hard times that were not touching, especially those which father said

795
00:50:12,115 –> 00:50:15,850
home and this one. Literature was said of the hardships

796
00:50:15,850 –> 00:50:19,450
endured the dangers faced fourth homesickness conquered. It was a cheerful,

797
00:50:19,450 –> 00:50:23,085
hopeful letter full of lively descriptions of camp life marches, and

798
00:50:23,085 –> 00:50:26,525
military news, and only at the end did the writer’s heart overflow

799
00:50:26,525 –> 00:50:29,905
with fatherly love and longing for the little girls at home.

800
00:50:31,470 –> 00:50:34,510
Give them all of my dear love and a kiss. Tell them I think of

801
00:50:34,510 –> 00:50:37,490
them by day, pray for them by night and find my best comfort in their

802
00:50:37,549 –> 00:50:41,325
affection at all Tom. A year seems very long to wait before I

803
00:50:41,325 –> 00:50:45,164
see them, but remind them that while we may all work so that these hard

804
00:50:45,164 –> 00:50:48,790
days do not be wasted, I know they will remember all that I

805
00:50:48,790 –> 00:50:52,490
said to them and they will be loving children to you. We’ll do their duty

806
00:50:52,550 –> 00:50:56,150
faithfully, fight their bosom enemies bravely and conquer

807
00:50:56,150 –> 00:50:59,775
themselves so beautifully that when I come back to them, I may be fonder and

808
00:50:59,775 –> 00:51:03,615
prouder than ever of my little women. Everyone sniffed

809
00:51:03,615 –> 00:51:06,890
when they came near to that part. Joe was ashamed of the great tear that

810
00:51:06,890 –> 00:51:09,609
dropped off the end of her nose and Amy never minded the rumbling of her

811
00:51:09,609 –> 00:51:13,369
curls as she hid her face on her mother’s shoulders and sobbed out. I’m a

812
00:51:13,369 –> 00:51:16,765
selfish girl, but I’ll truly try to be better, so he mayn’t be disappointed in

813
00:51:16,765 –> 00:51:20,205
me by and by. We all will, cried

814
00:51:20,205 –> 00:51:23,165
Meg. I think too much of my looks and hate to work, but I won’t

815
00:51:23,165 –> 00:51:26,931
anymore if I can help it. I’ll try and be what

816
00:51:26,931 –> 00:51:29,320
he loves to call me a quote, unquote little woman and not be rough and

817
00:51:29,320 –> 00:51:32,540
wild, but do my duty here instead of wanting to be somewhere else,

818
00:51:32,805 –> 00:51:36,565
said Joe turning that keeping her temper at home was a much harder

819
00:51:36,565 –> 00:51:39,356
task than facing a rebel or 2 down fourth.

820
00:51:40,530 –> 00:51:44,370
Beth said nothing will wipe her tear wiped away her tears as a

821
00:51:44,370 –> 00:51:48,130
blue army sock and Jesan to knit with all her mind losing no time

822
00:51:48,130 –> 00:51:51,565
in doing the duty that lay nearest to her while she

823
00:51:51,565 –> 00:51:55,265
resolved her quiet little soul to be all that father hoped to find her

824
00:51:55,485 –> 00:51:58,680
when the year brought around the happy coming home.

825
00:52:06,545 –> 00:52:08,945
So there’s a couple different things going on in here, and there’s a reason I

826
00:52:08,945 –> 00:52:12,785
picked that section of the book to read. But I

827
00:52:12,785 –> 00:52:15,850
wanna address a couple of things or set the table for how we’re gonna talk

828
00:52:15,850 –> 00:52:19,410
about this, I think. I don’t know where

829
00:52:19,410 –> 00:52:22,450
Tom hangs out. He probably hangs out at different places than I do on the

830
00:52:22,450 –> 00:52:25,825
Internet because the Internet is vast and gigantic and we all hang out in different

831
00:52:25,825 –> 00:52:29,605
places. I learned that during COVID. We’re all using the internet for different turning, apparently.

832
00:52:30,944 –> 00:52:33,870
And I found out during COVID that I had no idea what people were using

833
00:52:33,950 –> 00:52:37,790
the internet for. They weren’t apparently using it for

834
00:52:37,790 –> 00:52:41,550
the same things I was, which is always a fascinating thing to find out

835
00:52:41,550 –> 00:52:45,045
about your neighbor. Anyway, some of the places where I hang

836
00:52:45,045 –> 00:52:48,484
out on the Internet, some of the

837
00:52:48,484 –> 00:52:52,180
more darker corners,

838
00:52:52,480 –> 00:52:54,660
the more doom and gloom corners,

839
00:52:56,240 –> 00:52:59,200
are engaged in a whole lot of and it’s been this way for a while,

840
00:52:59,200 –> 00:53:02,825
for at least, I would say, 8 years, maybe

841
00:53:02,825 –> 00:53:06,665
10. A lot of casual talk on both the

842
00:53:06,665 –> 00:53:10,270
political right and the political left in the United States about the

843
00:53:10,270 –> 00:53:13,710
potential for a Jesan world a second civil

844
00:53:13,710 –> 00:53:17,170
war, during our current fourth turning, our current

845
00:53:17,230 –> 00:53:20,815
seculum. A matter of fact, I just read an article the other

846
00:53:20,815 –> 00:53:24,575
day before I wrote this script where a guy who was

847
00:53:24,575 –> 00:53:28,255
a former military guy was speculating on the death toll of a

848
00:53:28,255 –> 00:53:32,080
second civil war in America. And he speculated that

849
00:53:32,080 –> 00:53:35,600
about a 100,000,000 people would have to be carried off in order to make that

850
00:53:35,600 –> 00:53:39,285
work out of a population of 312,000,000.

851
00:53:42,465 –> 00:53:46,200
Right. And I read

852
00:53:46,200 –> 00:53:49,960
articles like that writers by people who do have certain expertise

853
00:53:49,960 –> 00:53:53,765
in certain areas and may have seen different things than what I have seen

854
00:53:53,765 –> 00:53:57,225
and lived a different life than what I’ve Libby. And I’ll give them their druthers

855
00:53:57,365 –> 00:54:00,265
for sure. But I will say this.

856
00:54:01,789 –> 00:54:05,329
We are so far away from the last war on our soil 160

857
00:54:05,630 –> 00:54:09,250
years ago that we have forgotten the real human impacts of war

858
00:54:09,549 –> 00:54:13,055
on family and culture and our casual are

859
00:54:13,055 –> 00:54:16,835
almost too casual conversation reveals this level of unseriousness

860
00:54:17,535 –> 00:54:21,329
in our experience. And that part irks me

861
00:54:21,329 –> 00:54:25,089
greatly. We can it’s one thing

862
00:54:25,089 –> 00:54:28,675
to watch it on television or watch it on YouTube and see it happen

863
00:54:28,675 –> 00:54:31,575
someplace else. It’s quite another

864
00:54:32,755 –> 00:54:35,495
to have one out of every 3 people

865
00:54:37,390 –> 00:54:41,070
that you know just get carted off. And by the way, he

866
00:54:41,070 –> 00:54:44,770
speculated that that wouldn’t just be from bullets. He thought it would be from famine

867
00:54:45,230 –> 00:54:48,435
and disease and everything else that goes along

868
00:54:48,815 –> 00:54:52,435
when you open up a can of well, that

869
00:54:54,440 –> 00:54:58,140
on each other. And by the way, with all this talk,

870
00:54:58,680 –> 00:55:02,060
again, casual conversation, far too casual for my

871
00:55:02,905 –> 00:55:06,525
taste. Anyway, one of the questions that’s never asked

872
00:55:06,585 –> 00:55:08,445
or answered is this one.

873
00:55:10,510 –> 00:55:14,270
Why would anybody from one place in this

874
00:55:14,270 –> 00:55:17,790
country march to another place in this

875
00:55:17,790 –> 00:55:20,155
country to do what exactly?

876
00:55:21,815 –> 00:55:25,495
What is the instigating act?

877
00:55:25,495 –> 00:55:29,250
What’s the, to use the Latin term causa

878
00:55:29,869 –> 00:55:33,549
bellae? Why are we engaged in this process? And I can’t think

879
00:55:33,549 –> 00:55:37,335
of one thing, even with our current

880
00:55:37,395 –> 00:55:41,015
political disagreements that do lead to protests

881
00:55:41,715 –> 00:55:45,470
and sometimes even violence in small levels, that would lead to

882
00:55:45,470 –> 00:55:48,830
catastrophic apocalyptic levels of

883
00:55:48,830 –> 00:55:52,510
violence. But as my wife told me when I brought up this

884
00:55:52,510 –> 00:55:55,995
point to her, she said, I’m sure no one, no

885
00:55:55,995 –> 00:55:59,515
average person in the run up to the civil war thought that that would lead

886
00:55:59,515 –> 00:56:03,260
to anything either. And it’s not really there

887
00:56:03,260 –> 00:56:06,860
until it’s there. Speaking of the civil

888
00:56:06,860 –> 00:56:10,080
war, the generation that started, which was the transcendental

889
00:56:10,460 –> 00:56:14,195
generation and the generation that fought the civil war, who were later

890
00:56:14,195 –> 00:56:17,955
known as the gilded generation in the 4th turning apocalypse of

891
00:56:17,955 –> 00:56:21,660
that civil war, were totally burned out and rejected. Their

892
00:56:21,660 –> 00:56:25,100
position was totally burned out and rejected on much of anything by

893
00:56:25,100 –> 00:56:28,644
subsequent generations after the war was over. And they

894
00:56:28,644 –> 00:56:32,005
earned their just spiritual and moral and even political

895
00:56:32,005 –> 00:56:35,704
desserts from their material decisions deciding to,

896
00:56:35,765 –> 00:56:39,590
as was said in the song of the time, trample out the vintage where the

897
00:56:39,590 –> 00:56:42,890
grapes of wrath are stored. By the way,

898
00:56:43,270 –> 00:56:46,940
that song came out of Boston. That song came out of the fourth

899
00:56:47,805 –> 00:56:51,265
and the Yankee soldiers sang it as they marched down south.

900
00:56:58,030 –> 00:57:01,790
One of the important things, and this gets to the history idea that Tom was

901
00:57:01,790 –> 00:57:05,405
just bringing up. One of the important things that we forget is

902
00:57:05,405 –> 00:57:08,845
that usually in every, every cycle there’s about 4

903
00:57:08,845 –> 00:57:12,125
generations that are usually in the zeitgeist at the same

904
00:57:12,157 –> 00:57:15,870
Tom, With the exception of the civil war cycle, where there were only

905
00:57:15,870 –> 00:57:19,630
3 generations, that has been pretty much the standard in

906
00:57:19,630 –> 00:57:23,415
not only European based cycles, but also American

907
00:57:23,474 –> 00:57:26,775
based cycles, for the last Tom minimum,

908
00:57:28,434 –> 00:57:31,800
now almost 400 years, If you look at history,

909
00:57:32,420 –> 00:57:35,800
it’s been pretty consistent in that way. And those 4 generations

910
00:57:35,940 –> 00:57:39,480
typically tend to balance each other out.

911
00:57:40,244 –> 00:57:43,845
And currently, we have 4 generations in our own 4th 30 that we’re in right

912
00:57:43,845 –> 00:57:47,045
now, and I think we’re getting to the end of, as I’ve said repeatedly on

913
00:57:47,045 –> 00:57:50,789
this podcast, including the socially, culturally, and perhaps even

914
00:57:50,789 –> 00:57:54,390
spiritually ameliorating presence of the smallest generation, the

915
00:57:54,390 –> 00:57:57,369
generation that Tom and I belong to, the 13th generation.

916
00:57:58,345 –> 00:58:02,025
And, all that crusading talk about war has very

917
00:58:02,025 –> 00:58:05,625
little practical action with us. And maybe we’re the

918
00:58:05,625 –> 00:58:09,410
ones fourth small as we are, and we are the smallest of the

919
00:58:09,410 –> 00:58:13,030
4 current generations, the boomers, the gen z ers,

920
00:58:14,435 –> 00:58:18,195
and the millennials, the gen xers, Tom and my generation. We are

921
00:58:18,195 –> 00:58:21,875
the smallest at around, depending upon which number you look at, 25

922
00:58:21,875 –> 00:58:25,520
to 35,000,000 folks. That was the generation that was

923
00:58:25,520 –> 00:58:29,280
missing and died in the trenches, died in the trenches of world war 1,

924
00:58:29,280 –> 00:58:32,500
but many of them died in the fields of the civil war.

925
00:58:34,025 –> 00:58:37,785
And I do believe there’s a reason for having 4 generations. Historically, we just

926
00:58:37,785 –> 00:58:41,085
don’t understand why, because we’re actually not

927
00:58:41,790 –> 00:58:45,550
that smart on some of those things, I think, or we

928
00:58:45,550 –> 00:58:48,930
just, maybe haven’t turned our minds to that sort of research.

929
00:58:50,295 –> 00:58:54,135
So I read that letter from father in literature women, and he served

930
00:58:54,135 –> 00:58:57,940
as a chaplain. And you can read his

931
00:58:57,940 –> 00:59:01,779
entire tale of woe. Well, most of his tale of woe in

932
00:59:01,779 –> 00:59:05,585
Little Women, at least from their perspective, you do understand the

933
00:59:05,585 –> 00:59:09,345
human consequences of civil war or you begin to understand the

934
00:59:09,345 –> 00:59:12,545
human consequences of civil war. And there’s a little section that we’ll read here today

935
00:59:12,545 –> 00:59:16,050
as well, which reflects the, the pathologies of

936
00:59:16,050 –> 00:59:19,730
immigration during the civil war that was also beginning to occur at that

937
00:59:19,730 –> 00:59:23,485
time. So for Tom, so with that ramble laid

938
00:59:23,485 –> 00:59:27,265
down, let’s do let’s do this.

939
00:59:29,300 –> 00:59:32,180
Like I said, there’s a lot of casual civil war talk going on in our

940
00:59:32,180 –> 00:59:34,980
culture. They’re going on for about the last 10 years. And by the way, when

941
00:59:34,980 –> 00:59:38,795
I was growing up, like, you whispered that, and now people are

942
00:59:38,795 –> 00:59:41,435
talking about it out loud. I mean, I see articles in the Atlantic and in

943
00:59:41,435 –> 00:59:44,975
the New York Tom about this. This is nuts to me.

944
00:59:46,320 –> 00:59:50,079
How do we Tom this talk down? How do how do we stop

945
00:59:50,079 –> 00:59:53,115
people from even it’s like when

946
00:59:54,215 –> 00:59:57,595
every time Russia and the Ukraine gets brought up, nuclear

947
00:59:57,895 –> 01:00:01,180
war starts getting talked about. I’m like, why are we doing this? And I think

948
01:00:01,180 –> 01:00:04,400
we’ve had this conversation on our on this on this podcast before about that.

949
01:00:05,180 –> 01:00:08,960
Because I’m frustrated with that, but just focus on just America.

950
01:00:09,339 –> 01:00:11,885
Like, we can’t come up not we can’t.

951
01:00:13,385 –> 01:00:16,905
The consequences of us coming apart would be

952
01:00:16,905 –> 01:00:20,450
apocalyptic. Well, let let me

953
01:00:20,450 –> 01:00:24,210
just clear make one one clarifying statement part of that. Sure. Yeah. The

954
01:00:24,210 –> 01:00:27,589
consequences of us coming apart violently would be apocalyptic.

955
01:00:27,970 –> 01:00:29,575
But if we were to come apart

956
01:00:31,555 –> 01:00:35,235
under, like, clear dividing channels, turning, like, if we

957
01:00:35,235 –> 01:00:38,980
had we’re a we’re a country of 50 states. If 20 of

958
01:00:38,980 –> 01:00:42,420
those states decided to collectively secede from our union

959
01:00:42,740 –> 01:00:46,425
Mhmm. And it was all agreed upon that it was for the betterment of

960
01:00:46,485 –> 01:00:50,005
both parties, meaning both the new comp

961
01:00:50,165 –> 01:00:53,650
whatever. I’m not so sure it would be apocalyptic. I think it would

962
01:00:53,650 –> 01:00:56,610
be I think it would be world changing. I think things would I think it

963
01:00:56,610 –> 01:00:59,410
would be very weird. I think the world would react to it, but I’m not

964
01:00:59,410 –> 01:01:03,165
sure it’d be apocalyptic depending on how that happens. So to your to your point,

965
01:01:03,165 –> 01:01:06,845
though, if it were to happen violently, I I

966
01:01:06,845 –> 01:01:09,585
really do think I I think it would be

967
01:01:10,370 –> 01:01:13,850
catastrophic cat catastrophic implo implo

968
01:01:14,290 –> 01:01:18,025
implications across the world. I really do feel strongly about that. I do

969
01:01:18,025 –> 01:01:21,065
think that that would be it. Now so how do we get this to stop?

970
01:01:21,065 –> 01:01:24,425
How do we get, like, conversations to stop? Yeah. How do we switch a conversation

971
01:01:24,425 –> 01:01:28,069
from from that to, hey. What’s some

972
01:01:28,069 –> 01:01:31,450
ways maybe that we can actually figure out how to work together?

973
01:01:32,950 –> 01:01:36,365
See, I, this this comes this comes at me in about 900 different

974
01:01:36,385 –> 01:01:40,125
essays. Yeah. Really. Because I think I think on the one hand, I

975
01:01:40,125 –> 01:01:43,420
think we don’t stop talking about it. I think we I think we talk about

976
01:01:43,420 –> 01:01:46,940
it Tom, but bring the conversation to that

977
01:01:46,940 –> 01:01:50,595
apocalyptic level and then get people to understand that this should not

978
01:01:50,595 –> 01:01:54,375
happen. Like, the more you talk about it and the more you start showing them

979
01:01:54,914 –> 01:01:58,600
all of those detrimental turning, nobody wins in this

980
01:01:58,600 –> 01:02:02,360
case. I don’t care. Like, if you wanna talk about our original civil war

981
01:02:02,448 –> 01:02:05,980
fourth south and if you wanna claim the fourth one or whatever,

982
01:02:06,315 –> 01:02:09,835
I don’t even care about that because in this case, nobody would win, including the

983
01:02:09,835 –> 01:02:13,355
rest of the world. So Oh, no. There there’s a there’s a portion of us

984
01:02:13,355 –> 01:02:17,080
that we should not stop the conversation about it and actually

985
01:02:17,080 –> 01:02:20,520
push the envelope of that conversation to force feed people to think

986
01:02:20,520 –> 01:02:23,985
about the the the end result. The other

987
01:02:24,045 –> 01:02:27,885
components of it, like, I think I think there’s I think if we

988
01:02:27,885 –> 01:02:31,630
if we point them to the direction of maybe big business, pharma,

989
01:02:31,630 –> 01:02:34,990
like, some of these big because they would be hurt more than anybody if you

990
01:02:34,990 –> 01:02:38,430
think about it. Like, giant companies, General Motors, you

991
01:02:38,430 –> 01:02:41,615
know, Pfizer, all of these giant companies,

992
01:02:42,395 –> 01:02:45,914
they would get hit just as hard, if not worse, than anybody else in the

993
01:02:45,994 –> 01:02:49,480
on the planet. So maybe they take

994
01:02:49,480 –> 01:02:53,000
it at an from a business angle. Instead of looking at it from a social

995
01:02:53,000 –> 01:02:56,359
angle, look at it from a business angle, and look at it from, like, things

996
01:02:56,359 –> 01:02:59,945
like that. Like, again, like I said to to your point, I I think

997
01:03:00,405 –> 01:03:04,165
900 different ways this thing comes at me when I start thinking about this. And

998
01:03:04,225 –> 01:03:07,400
Tom mind mind you, let me just tell you, for the record,

999
01:03:08,340 –> 01:03:11,400
it’s utterly ridiculous for us to even

1000
01:03:12,180 –> 01:03:15,940
have this as, like, a a a remote possibility. Like, what are we

1001
01:03:15,940 –> 01:03:19,685
what what are we thinking here, people? Really? Well, I think I think we’re I

1002
01:03:19,685 –> 01:03:22,405
think what we’re turning, and and I’m glad you asked that. Here’s what I think

1003
01:03:22,405 –> 01:03:25,860
we’re thinking. The leadership over the

1004
01:03:25,860 –> 01:03:29,620
last 25 years that we relied on to provide answers to the

1005
01:03:29,620 –> 01:03:32,200
most the most the most

1006
01:03:33,305 –> 01:03:37,085
problematic, to use a term that’s used now that I don’t like,

1007
01:03:37,305 –> 01:03:40,845
but the most problematic problems, the most, like,

1008
01:03:41,529 –> 01:03:45,210
institutionally endemic problems seems to have left

1009
01:03:45,210 –> 01:03:48,990
the room. Like, okay, so let’s,

1010
01:03:49,615 –> 01:03:52,915
I’ll make it very blunt. The thing that would take the entire

1011
01:03:53,055 –> 01:03:56,355
country down as an entity together

1012
01:03:57,055 –> 01:04:00,450
is the debt. All true. Yeah.

1013
01:04:01,150 –> 01:04:04,750
Really, we are the most indebted country in the

1014
01:04:04,750 –> 01:04:08,510
history of the world. And by the way, we have been under

1015
01:04:08,581 –> 01:04:12,195
book, And, again, this is not a republican or democrat problem.

1016
01:04:12,335 –> 01:04:16,175
It’s not a presidential problem. It’s a uni party problem. Yes. I did use

1017
01:04:16,175 –> 01:04:19,760
that word, uni party. It’s both of them together under

1018
01:04:19,760 –> 01:04:23,540
both Trump. Actually, not even Trump. Going back to Barack Obama.

1019
01:04:23,760 –> 01:04:27,520
Barack Obama, Donald Trump, and now Joe Biden, and it may be Donald Trump

1020
01:04:27,520 –> 01:04:31,035
again fourth Tom not. It may be RFK Junior. I don’t know. It doesn’t

1021
01:04:31,035 –> 01:04:34,795
matter. Point is under the

1022
01:04:34,795 –> 01:04:38,589
current presidents that we’ve had, who we’ve elected as leaders, and, by

1023
01:04:38,589 –> 01:04:42,109
the way, the people in Congress we’ve elected who have the power of the purse,

1024
01:04:42,109 –> 01:04:45,710
the president doesn’t have that. Writers our

1025
01:04:45,710 –> 01:04:49,515
system, it’s the Congress. Just

1026
01:04:49,575 –> 01:04:52,555
keep voting to print more money.

1027
01:04:54,055 –> 01:04:57,840
What the actual hell. And I and I and I’m

1028
01:04:57,840 –> 01:05:00,720
not even talking about the Fed. I haven’t even brought in the Federal Reserve. Like,

1029
01:05:00,720 –> 01:05:04,445
there seems to be no adults in the room. And then from there Jesan I

1030
01:05:04,445 –> 01:05:07,325
mentioned this years ago, a couple of years ago on the podcast. Like, you from

1031
01:05:07,325 –> 01:05:11,165
there, you go to any other place in culture, and it seems like

1032
01:05:11,165 –> 01:05:14,910
adults have abandoned the room. And that’s the

1033
01:05:14,910 –> 01:05:18,750
thing we’re frustrated by, I think. And so when all the adults abandon

1034
01:05:18,750 –> 01:05:22,269
the room and the children are running the the institutions and the

1035
01:05:22,269 –> 01:05:26,015
children are running the when the inmates are running the

1036
01:05:26,015 –> 01:05:29,455
asylum, all kinds of craziness gets to pop

1037
01:05:29,455 –> 01:05:33,260
up. And when no one says no, when no one says no, we’re not

1038
01:05:33,260 –> 01:05:36,860
doing that, when no one says no, I have a vision for going this way,

1039
01:05:36,860 –> 01:05:38,160
when that’s not offered,

1040
01:05:41,165 –> 01:05:43,805
then people go to the next logical thing, which is, well, why am I hanging

1041
01:05:43,805 –> 01:05:47,569
around with these people that I can’t get along with? I

1042
01:05:47,569 –> 01:05:51,089
need to separate from them. I still I still have a hard time

1043
01:05:51,089 –> 01:05:54,309
making the leap from that national debt

1044
01:05:54,795 –> 01:05:58,395
piece to civil war. Right? Like Well, the national debt piece will take us

1045
01:05:58,395 –> 01:06:01,755
down collectively together. There’s no there’s no way out of that. Right?

1046
01:06:01,755 –> 01:06:05,510
Right. Right. But the other things that come off of

1047
01:06:05,510 –> 01:06:09,109
the lack of leadership on the national debt piece translate to a lack of

1048
01:06:09,109 –> 01:06:10,890
leadership other places. So fourth instance,

1049
01:06:23,940 –> 01:06:27,160
If if I can’t even get get a person in Congress

1050
01:06:28,340 –> 01:06:31,935
to propose a budget, instead, they just continue to pass

1051
01:06:31,995 –> 01:06:35,675
resolutions to continue to fund the government, but they don’t

1052
01:06:35,675 –> 01:06:38,495
come to me and say, this is why we’re passing the resolution.

1053
01:06:39,270 –> 01:06:42,630
Instead, they just do it at midnight on December 31st, as they have

1054
01:06:42,630 –> 01:06:46,455
traditionally done with no budget. I look at that as the

1055
01:06:46,535 –> 01:06:49,975
average Jesan, and then I’m told that we are 7,000,000,000,000 or 8,000,000,000,000 or

1056
01:06:49,975 –> 01:06:53,495
23,000,000,000,000 in debt. And I go, what, what are we doing

1057
01:06:53,495 –> 01:06:57,130
here? Where’s the leadership? And by the way, most average people just go,

1058
01:06:57,130 –> 01:06:59,630
where’s the leadership? And then they apply that question to everywhere,

1059
01:07:02,435 –> 01:07:06,055
which is why we do this podcast. If there’s no leadership,

1060
01:07:06,595 –> 01:07:10,440
why am I hanging around? Why why am I hanging around?

1061
01:07:10,440 –> 01:07:13,800
Why why do I need to hang hang out here? Now there may be parts

1062
01:07:13,800 –> 01:07:17,080
in and I will admit. There may be parts of this explanation that I’m filling

1063
01:07:17,080 –> 01:07:20,595
in with things that I know, that I’m that you don’t know and so whatever.

1064
01:07:20,895 –> 01:07:24,335
And then this is not a political podcast. I’m just using this as a as

1065
01:07:24,335 –> 01:07:28,050
an example. We could even go to cultural stuff.

1066
01:07:28,050 –> 01:07:31,810
Okay. If I can’t figure out a way

1067
01:07:31,810 –> 01:07:35,385
to culturally get along with the

1068
01:07:35,385 –> 01:07:39,225
person next door to me or whatever or

1069
01:07:39,225 –> 01:07:42,710
if it’s just easier to engage in a flame war on Facebook or

1070
01:07:42,710 –> 01:07:46,550
whatever than it is for me to like my neighbor. And no one’s coming down

1071
01:07:46,550 –> 01:07:49,910
saying, hey. Don’t do a flame war on Facebook. No one’s come down saying that.

1072
01:07:49,910 –> 01:07:53,095
Or I I shouldn’t say no one. It has taken almost 15

1073
01:07:53,895 –> 01:07:57,575
almost 20 years of Facebook for for people to finally wake up and go,

1074
01:07:57,575 –> 01:08:01,349
oh, hey, Jonathan Haidt. Oh, hey. This might be a bad thing.

1075
01:08:01,349 –> 01:08:03,130
We might wanna, like, not do this.

1076
01:08:05,589 –> 01:08:09,345
And even then, it’s sort of lukewarm leadership. Instead of someone saying,

1077
01:08:09,645 –> 01:08:13,325
no, you can’t have this, or no,

1078
01:08:13,325 –> 01:08:16,210
you shouldn’t be doing this. Yeah.

1079
01:08:17,069 –> 01:08:20,590
Which by the way, people who want it are, of course, gonna reject that. They’re

1080
01:08:20,590 –> 01:08:23,950
gonna rebel against it. But, you know, people have always

1081
01:08:23,950 –> 01:08:27,755
rebelled. Like, my kids rebel when I tell them no. Don’t put a stick in

1082
01:08:27,755 –> 01:08:30,395
your mouth. Like but it it doesn’t mean I’m not gonna tell him to put

1083
01:08:30,395 –> 01:08:32,715
a stick. I mean, come on. Like, I’m not gonna let my 7 year old

1084
01:08:32,715 –> 01:08:36,529
just eat a stick. Oh, it hurts his feelings. Well but,

1085
01:08:36,529 –> 01:08:38,609
yeah, it’s gonna hurt the roof of his mouth more, and then I gotta go

1086
01:08:38,609 –> 01:08:39,270
to the hospital.

1087
01:08:42,585 –> 01:08:46,265
Like, there’s

1088
01:08:46,265 –> 01:08:49,979
so many of these different areas in the country. I think that people get

1089
01:08:50,140 –> 01:08:53,340
frustrated and they just go, well, separation is the best way to go, which by

1090
01:08:53,340 –> 01:08:56,859
the way, I don’t agree with that from a whole bunch of other different areas.

1091
01:08:56,859 –> 01:08:59,475
I don’t agree with that. I don’t think that’s where you should go. And I

1092
01:08:59,475 –> 01:09:02,915
think that a lot of people have gone to a lot of governors in

1093
01:09:02,915 –> 01:09:06,340
particular. I find it interesting that politically,

1094
01:09:06,639 –> 01:09:10,420
when the party shift in Washington, DC, all of a sudden,

1095
01:09:11,359 –> 01:09:15,075
the opposite political party in individual states, all of a sudden discovered that there’s a

1096
01:09:15,075 –> 01:09:18,435
10th amendment in the constitution and the states have rights and could do

1097
01:09:18,435 –> 01:09:21,795
stuff. And then they start, like, doing stuff. Like, well, we’ll have this again. Like,

1098
01:09:21,795 –> 01:09:25,399
if Donald Trump gets elected, we’ll have Fourth will all of a sudden discover that

1099
01:09:25,399 –> 01:09:28,920
there’s a 10th amendment. Oh, Massachusetts too. Yeah. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They’ll be

1100
01:09:28,920 –> 01:09:32,199
like, oh my god. There’s this amendment, and we didn’t know that. And that’s what

1101
01:09:32,199 –> 01:09:35,795
frustrates people. I don’t need you to discover it when the opposite political

1102
01:09:35,795 –> 01:09:39,234
party is in power. I need you to discover it when your political party is

1103
01:09:39,234 –> 01:09:42,740
in power. Right. Right. That’s when I need you to discover

1104
01:09:42,740 –> 01:09:46,340
it. I need you to discover it when it’s, quote, unquote, working for

1105
01:09:46,340 –> 01:09:48,680
you, but it’s exploding the national debt.

1106
01:09:50,685 –> 01:09:54,365
Yeah. I I don’t know.

1107
01:09:54,365 –> 01:09:57,185
I I I’m not really sure how to respond to this one.

1108
01:09:58,125 –> 01:10:01,480
Just because, you know listen. I I’ve

1109
01:10:01,480 –> 01:10:05,160
said a 1,000 times. Right? Like and and so to your point about

1110
01:10:05,160 –> 01:10:08,625
having no adults in the room, I see the I see

1111
01:10:08,625 –> 01:10:11,605
weird things, like, in the political landscape where

1112
01:10:12,465 –> 01:10:16,090
the younger generation who has to to your point,

1113
01:10:16,090 –> 01:10:19,770
we’re the smallest generation. Right? So Oh, yeah. The younger generation has

1114
01:10:19,770 –> 01:10:23,465
the the highest voting power Mhmm. Or, like,

1115
01:10:23,465 –> 01:10:26,985
the, like, the the strongest voting power, but yet votes the

1116
01:10:26,985 –> 01:10:30,600
least. Right. They have the ability to

1117
01:10:30,920 –> 01:10:34,060
literally change the dynamics on the landscape of our entire country,

1118
01:10:34,680 –> 01:10:38,495
but they don’t. I don’t understand that part of it. They do all

1119
01:10:38,495 –> 01:10:42,335
of the almost a 100% of the complaining. Right. But

1120
01:10:42,335 –> 01:10:45,890
none of 0% of the action. Right. They don’t

1121
01:10:45,890 –> 01:10:49,650
find their voting let’s say, like, their

1122
01:10:49,650 –> 01:10:53,330
voting feet, they don’t find their voting

1123
01:10:53,330 –> 01:10:57,135
appetite until they’re in their thirties. Right. And then they’re no

1124
01:10:57,135 –> 01:11:00,975
longer that youngest generation. Right. But now now they’re a generation that

1125
01:11:00,975 –> 01:11:04,790
has kids and jobs and tax, and they they care about all this stuff. So

1126
01:11:04,790 –> 01:11:08,550
now they’re now they’re trying to weigh the balances of, do I

1127
01:11:08,550 –> 01:11:12,125
want higher taxes and more government involvement, or do I want lower

1128
01:11:12,125 –> 01:11:15,965
taxes, less government involvement? Do I want social reform? Do I not

1129
01:11:15,965 –> 01:11:19,730
care about so, like, it doesn’t come book like, it doesn’t really truly hit you

1130
01:11:19,730 –> 01:11:23,090
until you’re, like, in your thirties. Well, this is why we should raise the voting

1131
01:11:23,090 –> 01:11:26,925
age and lower the drinking age. Yes. I’m good with that.

1132
01:11:26,925 –> 01:11:30,765
Yeah. Actually, I’m actually good with that. And I’m not saying lower the

1133
01:11:30,765 –> 01:11:34,450
drinking age to, like, whatever. No. Lower the drinking age like 18. Right? I’m

1134
01:11:34,450 –> 01:11:38,290
not we’re not Europeans. You don’t need to be drinking wine when you’re 14. Like

1135
01:11:38,370 –> 01:11:42,095
okay. Like, no. 18, lower the drinking age, but raise the

1136
01:11:42,095 –> 01:11:45,775
voting age. No. I 30. I would raise the

1137
01:11:45,775 –> 01:11:49,510
voting age to 30. I I say 30 is the goal, but you hit

1138
01:11:49,510 –> 01:11:53,270
25 first to test the waters to see how it goes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I

1139
01:11:53,270 –> 01:11:57,015
I I’ll go halfway with you on that. Take them one step at

1140
01:11:57,015 –> 01:12:00,855
a time. But but to your point, I had somebody tell me once when I

1141
01:12:00,855 –> 01:12:04,475
was young that if you are if you are

1142
01:12:04,695 –> 01:12:08,019
old, older and liberal

1143
01:12:08,300 –> 01:12:11,980
no. Sorry. If you are young and con the the I there was a way

1144
01:12:11,980 –> 01:12:15,705
he phrased it to make it make sense. If you are young and conservative.

1145
01:12:16,085 –> 01:12:19,525
You have no heart. If you are old and liberal, you have no

1146
01:12:19,525 –> 01:12:23,030
brain. Yep. That was Winston Churchill. But that’s because

1147
01:12:23,110 –> 01:12:26,710
well, he was quoting him then. Yeah. Yeah. It was not Winston Churchill said it

1148
01:12:26,710 –> 01:12:29,430
to me, and that that’s the only time I remember it was this one particular

1149
01:12:29,430 –> 01:12:33,205
guy saying it to me. And, at the time, I was about I was

1150
01:12:33,205 –> 01:12:36,825
probably about 26 or 27 years old, and he was probably about 55.

1151
01:12:37,365 –> 01:12:40,270
Mhmm. I was at the very beginning of my sales career, and he was at

1152
01:12:40,270 –> 01:12:43,150
the end toward the end of his sales career. He said that to me, and

1153
01:12:43,150 –> 01:12:46,910
I was like, it didn’t hit me until maybe 10 years ago when I

1154
01:12:46,910 –> 01:12:50,744
was like, oh, damn. He that makes sense. Like and and I’m not talking about,

1155
01:12:50,744 –> 01:12:54,425
like, when he says if you’re old and liberal, you have no brain, he’s

1156
01:12:54,425 –> 01:12:57,800
not talking about not caring about social reform or not care

1157
01:12:58,040 –> 01:13:00,920
Right. He’s talking about if you go so far to the left that you don’t

1158
01:13:00,920 –> 01:13:04,534
care about your own money, then you’re crazy. And the government should feel the

1159
01:13:04,534 –> 01:13:07,915
same way. That was basically what I was thinking. So to your point,

1160
01:13:08,534 –> 01:13:11,810
I’m not suggesting and again, this is not a I don’t even know how. God.

1161
01:13:11,810 –> 01:13:14,530
I don’t even I’m not sure how this readers to literature women. But, anyway, we’ll

1162
01:13:14,530 –> 01:13:18,290
get back to that. Well, it’s a civil war thing. So yeah. Civil

1163
01:13:18,290 –> 01:13:22,005
war. Yeah. But, like, but but it it it does get to a point

1164
01:13:22,005 –> 01:13:25,685
where you wonder, does the government care so much about one

1165
01:13:25,685 –> 01:13:29,305
particular topic? I don’t care if it’s social reform, military, whatever.

1166
01:13:29,550 –> 01:13:33,250
Pick your poison. But does the government care too much about one particular

1167
01:13:33,870 –> 01:13:36,930
topic that they’re overspending without thinking?

1168
01:13:37,655 –> 01:13:41,275
Right? Writers, that that to your point about the debt, like like, it’s

1169
01:13:41,495 –> 01:13:45,255
and then I I don’t know. I I remember Well well, and not

1170
01:13:45,255 –> 01:13:48,920
only not only with the debt, but also with how do,

1171
01:13:48,920 –> 01:13:51,800
how do we get out of it? This is the question that everybody how do

1172
01:13:51,800 –> 01:13:54,840
we get out of the and actually, I won’t even make it about the debt.

1173
01:13:54,840 –> 01:13:58,485
I’m gonna make it way larger. I’m gonna bring the bring the the

1174
01:13:58,485 –> 01:14:02,244
microscope back into a telescope. Right? How do we get out

1175
01:14:02,244 –> 01:14:05,784
of the problems we’re in right now? Because we’ve got problems everywhere. So we’ve got

1176
01:14:05,900 –> 01:14:09,659
we’ve got challenges between people of different races. You know? We’ve

1177
01:14:09,659 –> 01:14:12,320
got on the cultural level. We’ve got,

1178
01:14:13,500 –> 01:14:16,735
social media that’s being used not only to,

1179
01:14:18,315 –> 01:14:21,755
not only to spread propaganda and, as the

1180
01:14:21,755 –> 01:14:25,530
government says, disinformation, but also

1181
01:14:25,670 –> 01:14:29,290
is not allowed to be a wild west where everybody can just say anything

1182
01:14:29,590 –> 01:14:33,255
short of crying fire in a crowded theater because it

1183
01:14:33,255 –> 01:14:37,094
benefits the big corporations, and Facebook and Google and Microsoft are big

1184
01:14:37,094 –> 01:14:40,700
corporations that wanna make money off of, you know,

1185
01:14:40,700 –> 01:14:44,460
outrage and clicks and ads. Okay. Then we’ve that that

1186
01:14:44,540 –> 01:14:48,140
by the way, those are just two problems right there. And those those problems in

1187
01:14:48,140 –> 01:14:51,795
mold into each other. Then we’ve got the problem of not all forget

1188
01:14:51,795 –> 01:14:55,395
forget national debt. Personal credit card debt is the highest it’s ever been

1189
01:14:55,395 –> 01:14:59,060
because inflation is through the roof, because we printed a bunch of money during COVID

1190
01:14:59,060 –> 01:15:02,580
to pay people to stay at home and to shelter in place. And we can

1191
01:15:02,580 –> 01:15:05,380
argue about whether or not that was good or bad or whatever, but that’s what

1192
01:15:05,380 –> 01:15:08,985
we did. Then number 4, we’ve got we’ve still got

1193
01:15:08,985 –> 01:15:12,585
people running around in masks. We’ve still got people who are afraid of

1194
01:15:12,585 –> 01:15:16,199
COVID, and no one’s calmed their fears. I just think

1195
01:15:16,257 –> 01:15:18,540
fourth big things right there. COVID,

1196
01:15:19,640 –> 01:15:23,480
personal debt, credit card debt inflation, social

1197
01:15:23,480 –> 01:15:26,905
media outrage machines, and a diversity, equity, and

1198
01:15:26,905 –> 01:15:30,664
inclusion, or just issues of race between people

1199
01:15:30,664 –> 01:15:34,490
of different races versus people of different classes Fourth things. No. I don’t

1200
01:15:34,490 –> 01:15:37,770
I don’t hear any leadership talking about it. We’re gonna talk about this today because

1201
01:15:37,770 –> 01:15:40,890
I want our podcast to be about that. How do we get out of any

1202
01:15:40,890 –> 01:15:44,695
of those? What’s the way fourth? Don’t just tell me,

1203
01:15:44,695 –> 01:15:48,215
oh, well, we just have to get through it. What’s the vision of the future.

1204
01:15:48,215 –> 01:15:51,469
What does America look like in 2030? Describe

1205
01:15:51,610 –> 01:15:55,449
that so that the average plumber who’s got

1206
01:15:55,449 –> 01:15:58,730
$16,000 in debt and feels like he will never be able to work his way

1207
01:15:58,730 –> 01:16:01,954
out of it on his Discover card cause he’s just trying to make groceries every

1208
01:16:01,954 –> 01:16:05,715
week. He understands it. Explain it,

1209
01:16:05,715 –> 01:16:09,510
and that’s what I think people are missing. Yeah. We know what the problems

1210
01:16:09,570 –> 01:16:13,030
are, but we have 0 people proposing solutions.

1211
01:16:13,970 –> 01:16:17,684
That well, that I can’t even argue with that. I agree with that a 100%.

1212
01:16:18,385 –> 01:16:22,224
Have you ever seen the movie wag the dog? Oh, yeah. Mhmm. Because I think

1213
01:16:22,224 –> 01:16:25,719
that’s half of what our problem is, by the way. Yeah. I really do. If

1214
01:16:25,719 –> 01:16:29,400
you think about this, what the the the

1215
01:16:29,400 –> 01:16:32,060
hot spot or the hot topic

1216
01:16:32,765 –> 01:16:36,605
changes based on the pulse of the country. Right? Like, so Right.

1217
01:16:36,685 –> 01:16:40,205
We’re we’re the we’re the dog being wagged by our tails

1218
01:16:40,205 –> 01:16:43,780
here. Mhmm. So, like, we’re if if we get enough

1219
01:16:43,780 –> 01:16:46,600
people to be worried and wanna focus on

1220
01:16:48,155 –> 01:16:50,795
My daughter just brought this up to me yesterday, as a matter of fact. We

1221
01:16:50,795 –> 01:16:54,235
were talking about, like, the Black Lives Matter movement and stuff like that and how

1222
01:16:54,235 –> 01:16:57,810
you haven’t heard anything from it. Nothing. Where where is the momentum

1223
01:16:57,810 –> 01:17:01,490
that that that that group like, there was really and I mean,

1224
01:17:01,490 –> 01:17:05,165
I I was actually hopeful that this

1225
01:17:05,165 –> 01:17:08,844
was the time. Mhmm. The Rodney King stuff, all that

1226
01:17:08,844 –> 01:17:12,239
stuff was the precursor to what the BLM Movement was going to be

1227
01:17:12,239 –> 01:17:15,460
able to accomplish that none of the rest of them were. And now

1228
01:17:16,079 –> 01:17:19,699
nobody nothing happened. And I think I I think this is

1229
01:17:19,945 –> 01:17:23,785
kind of par and parcel for the course here where the

1230
01:17:23,785 –> 01:17:27,465
powers that be do a really good job keeping us distracted with what they

1231
01:17:27,465 –> 01:17:31,310
they want us to think is important at the time. Right now, it’s all

1232
01:17:31,310 –> 01:17:35,150
these right now, we’re we’re talking about these protests on

1233
01:17:35,150 –> 01:17:38,675
college campuses, but what we’re not talking about is what the

1234
01:17:38,675 –> 01:17:42,195
actual problem is over in Gaza and and Israel. Oh, yeah. No.

1235
01:17:42,195 –> 01:17:45,790
Nobody’s trying to solve actually solve that problem. The

1236
01:17:45,790 –> 01:17:49,330
the the real the real problem is these kids protesting on the campuses.

1237
01:17:49,550 –> 01:17:53,070
Come on. Like, why are we being distracted with this

1238
01:17:53,070 –> 01:17:56,625
this this is a simple this is a simple thing. This is, like, these

1239
01:17:56,785 –> 01:18:00,085
and then, by the way, in but a year ago,

1240
01:18:00,625 –> 01:18:04,360
to your point a little while ago, it was Ukraine and the possibility

1241
01:18:04,420 –> 01:18:07,560
of nuclear war, but nobody’s talking about Ukraine right now.

1242
01:18:08,420 –> 01:18:11,804
And they’re still at war, by the way. Like, they’re still turning

1243
01:18:11,804 –> 01:18:15,324
stuff up over there. And we keep voting to send them more

1244
01:18:15,324 –> 01:18:18,364
money. Right. But nobody’s talking about it. And why

1245
01:18:19,270 –> 01:18:22,870
this is my this is my like, what I one of the the most

1246
01:18:22,870 –> 01:18:26,070
fundamental things I don’t understand, and this is where I was I I started heading

1247
01:18:26,070 –> 01:18:28,755
this way a little while ago when I said, when when I was starting to

1248
01:18:28,755 –> 01:18:32,355
talk about all these young kids that are protesting on these college

1249
01:18:32,355 –> 01:18:35,475
campuses, how many of them actually went out and vote? How many of them are

1250
01:18:35,475 –> 01:18:39,139
going to vote in the in the in the next election? They’re they

1251
01:18:39,139 –> 01:18:42,820
protest, but they don’t I’m not suggesting that

1252
01:18:42,820 –> 01:18:46,659
protesting is not a good action, because god Martin Luther King would raise out

1253
01:18:46,659 –> 01:18:49,775
of his grave and smack me right in the head. I I’m not suggesting protests

1254
01:18:49,775 –> 01:18:53,615
are are not a path, but what I am suggesting is

1255
01:18:53,615 –> 01:18:57,020
that these groups of protests are not doing

1256
01:18:57,020 –> 01:19:00,860
anything. These guys are not marching on Washington. They’re not mark they’re

1257
01:19:00,860 –> 01:19:04,620
they’re not it it’s so fourth type of

1258
01:19:04,620 –> 01:19:08,435
protest is not actionable. Go vote

1259
01:19:08,447 –> 01:19:12,275
fourth Christ’s sakes. Like, go vote. Right? Like, you’re gonna you’re gonna do

1260
01:19:12,275 –> 01:19:15,980
this. You’re gonna complain that the the the the police are are removing you from

1261
01:19:15,980 –> 01:19:19,760
a peaceful protest. You’re gonna complain that the police are arresting people. You’re gonna complain

1262
01:19:19,900 –> 01:19:23,575
you’re gonna complain and complain, complain, complain, complain, but not actually

1263
01:19:23,575 –> 01:19:27,415
do the function that makes a difference, which is at the ballot

1264
01:19:27,415 –> 01:19:30,920
box. Right? Like

1265
01:19:31,239 –> 01:19:34,840
Right. So it it frustrates the hell out of me, number 1. So but my

1266
01:19:34,840 –> 01:19:38,465
my my point to all of that rant was the fact that we’re we’re we’re

1267
01:19:38,765 –> 01:19:41,985
we’re so focused on the whatever

1268
01:19:42,605 –> 01:19:46,285
the fourth you just talked about. Mhmm. DEI was huge a year and a half

1269
01:19:46,285 –> 01:19:49,570
ago, 2 years ago. No one’s really talking about it anymore.

1270
01:19:51,710 –> 01:19:55,469
All the the national debt only comes up when we talk about the budget.

1271
01:19:55,469 –> 01:19:59,225
Like, when the the the we have to pass that that, you know, that

1272
01:19:59,225 –> 01:20:02,985
resolution real quick because we’re gonna shut down the government. You know what? Shut

1273
01:20:02,985 –> 01:20:06,830
down the government. Shut down the government. Shut it down. That happens. The

1274
01:20:06,830 –> 01:20:10,670
state governments operate independently. I know the state of Massachusetts where I

1275
01:20:10,670 –> 01:20:14,415
live is going to be fine if you shut down the federal government. We’re we’re

1276
01:20:14,415 –> 01:20:18,255
not gonna lose any sleep over this. Like, which

1277
01:20:18,255 –> 01:20:22,015
by the way, Charlie Baker, who was our just just left

1278
01:20:22,015 –> 01:20:25,810
our governorship has been begged to run for president, and

1279
01:20:25,810 –> 01:20:29,570
he refuses because he does not want any of that shit show. Like so

1280
01:20:29,570 –> 01:20:33,405
now mind you, between between Charlie Baker and the

1281
01:20:33,405 –> 01:20:36,625
3 governors before him Mhmm. They have done a phenomenal Massachusetts

1282
01:20:36,939 –> 01:20:40,770
podcast year, every resident who paid taxes last year,

1283
01:20:41,010 –> 01:20:44,770
every single resident got money back outside of

1284
01:20:44,770 –> 01:20:48,550
their tax writers. Wow. Because because we had a surplus

1285
01:20:48,690 –> 01:20:52,505
of tax money, and that was one of Charlie Baker’s promises. If we get

1286
01:20:52,505 –> 01:20:55,645
to a point of surplus, I’m gonna give the money back to you. Wow.

1287
01:20:57,510 –> 01:21:01,030
Wow. You did. Every taxpayer and it was based on a percentage of whatever money

1288
01:21:01,030 –> 01:21:04,844
you paid, whatever. But I did an extra I forget. It was like $500. It’s

1289
01:21:04,844 –> 01:21:07,724
not gonna make or break me, but Sure. That’s not the point. It was the

1290
01:21:07,724 –> 01:21:10,684
principle of it. Right? Yeah. It was the principle of it. He made a promise

1291
01:21:10,684 –> 01:21:14,360
to his Tom his writers. He ran the state government well enough that we had

1292
01:21:14,360 –> 01:21:17,880
a surplus of money, and he gave back the money because that was what he

1293
01:21:17,880 –> 01:21:21,705
what he promised to do. And, by the way, he also mat

1294
01:21:21,785 –> 01:21:25,465
Massachusetts, by the way, which we’re everybody knows our

1295
01:21:25,465 –> 01:21:29,225
nickname. Right? Taxachusetts? He actually he was

1296
01:21:29,225 –> 01:21:32,810
actually able to lower 2 of our main

1297
01:21:32,810 –> 01:21:36,650
taxes because of this surplus. He took the tax

1298
01:21:36,650 –> 01:21:40,090
rate and lowered it. May I may I also point out that Charlie

1299
01:21:40,090 –> 01:21:43,864
Baker is currently the president of

1300
01:21:43,864 –> 01:21:47,385
the NCAA. So, actually, I now know who to blame about that. But,

1301
01:21:47,385 –> 01:21:50,990
anyway, I now know who to have a conversation with about that. But but but

1302
01:21:50,990 –> 01:21:54,750
he’s also a Republican. A Republican in Massachusetts. Running

1303
01:21:54,750 –> 01:21:58,574
a Democratic state. Writers. A Republican. Now think about this.

1304
01:21:58,715 –> 01:22:02,415
All the Massachusetts is 88% Democrat.

1305
01:22:02,715 –> 01:22:06,510
Register voters. 88%. And a Republican won the governorship. By the

1306
01:22:06,510 –> 01:22:10,270
way, he was reelected. So he was reelected by by

1307
01:22:10,270 –> 01:22:14,110
a Democratic state. Now everybody in this we’re like, we need this guy to

1308
01:22:14,110 –> 01:22:17,614
run for president because he’s he’s a

1309
01:22:17,614 –> 01:22:21,155
good balance of Republican financial responsibility

1310
01:22:21,855 –> 01:22:24,594
and Democratic social mindedness.

1311
01:22:25,375 –> 01:22:29,140
Okay. He doesn’t wanna change everything socially. He doesn’t think everything that

1312
01:22:29,140 –> 01:22:32,740
we throw at him from LGBTQ to DEI to all the he

1313
01:22:32,740 –> 01:22:36,205
doesn’t think all of it is worth it, but he’s at least willing to listen.

1314
01:22:38,185 –> 01:22:41,085
So and and,

1315
01:22:42,739 –> 01:22:45,940
yeah. And so I and this goes but this goes back to my this goes

1316
01:22:45,940 –> 01:22:49,699
back to my assertion about adults in the room. Right. Like He refuses to

1317
01:22:49,699 –> 01:22:53,045
run because he wants no part of that shit show in in in DC. Right.

1318
01:22:53,045 –> 01:22:56,485
And so this is the thing. So one of the

1319
01:22:56,485 –> 01:23:00,325
fundamental pieces and he was born at Elmira. That’s

1320
01:23:00,325 –> 01:23:03,900
amazing. Okay. Elmira, New York. That’s astonishing.

1321
01:23:04,120 –> 01:23:07,400
I used to drive through Elmira, New York. I had clients in Elmira, New York.

1322
01:23:07,400 –> 01:23:09,020
That’s wow. Okay.

1323
01:23:14,385 –> 01:23:18,145
You point out guys like this. So Charlie Baker fourth

1324
01:23:18,145 –> 01:23:21,810
say what you want about him, Ron DeSantis in Florida. Like, he’s doing what what

1325
01:23:21,810 –> 01:23:24,390
people in Florida think is best for people in Florida

1326
01:23:24,778 –> 01:23:28,130
fourth, Greg Abbott in, in

1327
01:23:28,130 –> 01:23:31,715
Texas or Gavin Newsom as much as I am not a

1328
01:23:31,715 –> 01:23:35,555
gigantic fan of Gavin Newsom. He’s doing what people in California

1329
01:23:35,635 –> 01:23:39,315
people in California like him. He’s he’s clearly working for the people of California,

1330
01:23:39,315 –> 01:23:42,840
which is the point of what you’re supposed to be doing. And if I don’t

1331
01:23:42,840 –> 01:23:46,440
like him, I don’t have to live in California. That’s the glory of the

1332
01:23:46,440 –> 01:23:50,105
republic. I know that there is

1333
01:23:50,885 –> 01:23:53,765
I know that there is leadership at the local level or or even at the

1334
01:23:53,765 –> 01:23:57,610
small business level. I know there is. I know this exists. I

1335
01:23:57,610 –> 01:24:01,370
know that there are competent, qualified leaders who can

1336
01:24:01,370 –> 01:24:05,075
tamp down ridiculous talk and unite people together

1337
01:24:05,075 –> 01:24:08,915
regardless of whether they have an r fourth d next to their name. I

1338
01:24:08,915 –> 01:24:11,255
I I I know this. I know it exists.

1339
01:24:13,350 –> 01:24:16,870
What gets pushed is Tom your point. Maybe I can

1340
01:24:16,870 –> 01:24:20,330
summarize it a little bit better. What gets pushed is chaos.

1341
01:24:21,110 –> 01:24:24,775
Yes. Chaos gets pushed. And I’ve had about

1342
01:24:24,775 –> 01:24:28,155
enough of that because when you push chaos,

1343
01:24:28,614 –> 01:24:32,440
people who are, I’m just going to

1344
01:24:32,440 –> 01:24:35,420
be blunt about it. People who are psychologically weak minded

1345
01:24:36,840 –> 01:24:40,445
begin to coalesce together. And again,

1346
01:24:40,905 –> 01:24:44,505
certain dark spots of the internet and start having

1347
01:24:44,505 –> 01:24:46,365
conversations they shouldn’t be having,

1348
01:24:49,050 –> 01:24:52,890
that, yeah, it may be a place where

1349
01:24:52,890 –> 01:24:56,510
you can let off steam because maybe those conversations need to happen to your point.

1350
01:24:56,955 –> 01:25:00,475
But also someone needs to come along and say to those

1351
01:25:00,475 –> 01:25:04,235
people, stop. This is the thing that needs

1352
01:25:04,235 –> 01:25:07,420
to happen, or this is the thing that is happening by the way.

1353
01:25:08,040 –> 01:25:11,820
I do agree with you that because of governors like Charlie Book or,

1354
01:25:12,520 –> 01:25:16,225
what’s his name down in Virginia, or the governor,

1355
01:25:16,304 –> 01:25:20,065
even Kathy Hochul, you know, the governor of New York. Governors will

1356
01:25:20,065 –> 01:25:23,880
always be the backstop on a lot of this nonsense from Washington

1357
01:25:23,940 –> 01:25:27,780
DC because governors have to get reelected in

1358
01:25:27,780 –> 01:25:31,195
their own state. And the the the the

1359
01:25:31,195 –> 01:25:35,035
cobblers together of our constitution do something fundamental about human

1360
01:25:35,035 –> 01:25:38,575
nature. They knew that the government which governs best

1361
01:25:38,870 –> 01:25:42,570
is the one that governs the most locally, not nationally,

1362
01:25:42,950 –> 01:25:46,790
locally. And so if the republic were to come apart, it

1363
01:25:46,790 –> 01:25:50,215
would come apart in localities that would be self serving

1364
01:25:50,675 –> 01:25:54,355
for their own state, which that might create friction

1365
01:25:54,355 –> 01:25:57,950
and problems. But I don’t know that it would create

1366
01:25:57,950 –> 01:26:00,130
friction and problems to the point of,

1367
01:26:02,030 –> 01:26:05,150
to the point of violence. I’m I’m not convinced. I’m just still not convinced of

1368
01:26:05,150 –> 01:26:08,735
that. I’m not I’m not convinced of that either. I’m not convinced of that

1369
01:26:08,735 –> 01:26:12,095
in in the in the at the at the not I’m just not. I’m just

1370
01:26:12,095 –> 01:26:13,615
not. So it doesn’t,

1371
01:26:15,977 –> 01:26:18,910
but I don’t think we’re there yet. But can we say for the record that

1372
01:26:18,910 –> 01:26:22,270
we have 300 and whatever? Let’s just say I I thought it was

1373
01:26:22,270 –> 01:26:26,035
350, 312, whatever. Let’s just say we have

1374
01:26:26,035 –> 01:26:29,655
300,000,000 people in this country and these are the 2 best people

1375
01:26:29,955 –> 01:26:32,135
that we can find to run for president?

1376
01:26:33,570 –> 01:26:37,250
I I find that is an absolute atrocity. But

1377
01:26:37,250 –> 01:26:39,750
we’ve been saying that same line

1378
01:26:40,945 –> 01:26:42,885
going all the way back to

1379
01:26:46,225 –> 01:26:47,525
Herbert Walker Bush.

1380
01:26:51,360 –> 01:26:55,040
Yeah. Yeah. We’ve been we’ve been we we we’ve come to that same

1381
01:26:55,040 –> 01:26:58,835
conclusion collectively, left, right, and center. I’m not sure. When when when

1382
01:26:58,835 –> 01:27:02,595
Barack Obama ran against Mitt Romney, that was probably the first time

1383
01:27:02,595 –> 01:27:06,435
in a long time that we had 2 candidates that were probably both worth it

1384
01:27:06,435 –> 01:27:09,570
on their respective parties. Well, what about John McCain?

1385
01:27:11,070 –> 01:27:14,750
I see. I still he’s like the old regime kinda Jesan, though. That

1386
01:27:14,830 –> 01:27:17,725
that’s what I was turning. Like Okay. I I’ll grant you that. I’ll grant you

1387
01:27:17,725 –> 01:27:20,945
that. And by the way, I I was I was no fan of John McCain.

1388
01:27:21,245 –> 01:27:25,080
I’ll grant you that. But, no one would say

1389
01:27:25,080 –> 01:27:28,680
that he was unqualified. People just said it just like they did with Hillary

1390
01:27:28,680 –> 01:27:32,235
Clinton. They said it’s his turn. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

1391
01:27:32,235 –> 01:27:35,835
Yeah. I know. Yeah. And that’s we don’t want somebody that it’s it’s their

1392
01:27:35,835 –> 01:27:39,675
turn. We want somebody we want to be there. Right. Right. And this

1393
01:27:39,675 –> 01:27:43,270
is so I I this is why I

1394
01:27:43,270 –> 01:27:46,950
think we’re on the backside of our secular cycle. I

1395
01:27:46,950 –> 01:27:50,335
think we’re on the backside of the cycle because the kinds of

1396
01:27:50,335 –> 01:27:54,115
conversation that you and I are having and that are that folks are listening to

1397
01:27:54,495 –> 01:27:57,960
indicates that we are at an end of an era, not an end of a

1398
01:27:57,960 –> 01:28:01,560
civilization. And I think that that’s where people who are talking about the

1399
01:28:01,560 –> 01:28:05,320
civil war talk or who were releasing movies called civil

1400
01:28:05,320 –> 01:28:08,775
war, Like, come on. Let’s

1401
01:28:08,775 –> 01:28:12,315
stop people. Like, those kinds

1402
01:28:12,375 –> 01:28:15,700
of of of those kinds of cultural

1403
01:28:16,800 –> 01:28:20,420
whack a mole things that are popping up, I think people are confused.

1404
01:28:20,560 –> 01:28:23,985
It’s the end of an era of a certain type of

1405
01:28:23,985 –> 01:28:27,745
competence, an end of an era of a

1406
01:28:27,745 –> 01:28:31,585
certain type of leadership, the end of an era of a

1407
01:28:31,585 –> 01:28:35,190
certain type of bigness or a certain type of smallness.

1408
01:28:36,210 –> 01:28:39,730
The parties are shifting around. Most people don’t know

1409
01:28:39,730 –> 01:28:43,025
this, but for better or worse,

1410
01:28:43,324 –> 01:28:47,005
Donald Trump got more of the black vote in both 2016 and the

1411
01:28:47,005 –> 01:28:50,790
2020 election than any Republican at a national level in the

1412
01:28:50,790 –> 01:28:54,150
history of the Republican party going all the way back to, like, the pre civil

1413
01:28:54,150 –> 01:28:57,945
rights era. That’s insane. No one ever talks about it out loud

1414
01:28:57,945 –> 01:29:01,485
because it’s just too insane to to even contemplate. And by the way,

1415
01:29:01,864 –> 01:29:05,320
he actually successfully did something that no other Republican has ever done before.

1416
01:29:05,480 –> 01:29:08,920
He split the black vote. More black

1417
01:29:08,920 –> 01:29:12,599
males voted for Donald Trump and more black females voted

1418
01:29:12,599 –> 01:29:16,415
for Joe Biden. Interesting. And voted

1419
01:29:16,415 –> 01:29:20,175
for Hillary Clinton. That tells

1420
01:29:20,175 –> 01:29:23,235
you that the electorate is shifting around,

1421
01:29:25,360 –> 01:29:29,120
down in the state where I live. So I live in Texas. Yeah. The state

1422
01:29:29,120 –> 01:29:32,815
where I live, Hispanics, particularly

1423
01:29:33,035 –> 01:29:36,395
Hispanics that are, you talk about younger, younger

1424
01:29:36,395 –> 01:29:39,135
Hispanics that are 2nd and third generation

1425
01:29:39,870 –> 01:29:42,610
from immigration that occurred in 19 eighties

1426
01:29:43,390 –> 01:29:46,930
overwhelmingly are breaking for Trump right now. Overwhelmingly.

1427
01:29:47,675 –> 01:29:51,435
Yep. Overwhelmingly. It has the Texas Democrat party in

1428
01:29:51,435 –> 01:29:53,535
a in a cold panic.

1429
01:29:54,955 –> 01:29:58,670
Interesting. This is unprecedented

1430
01:29:58,969 –> 01:30:02,730
because we’re at the end of an era of competency. We’re at the

1431
01:30:02,730 –> 01:30:06,445
end of an era of political parties. When you tell me that a Republican

1432
01:30:06,585 –> 01:30:10,205
governor just got I mean, not only got elected

1433
01:30:10,265 –> 01:30:13,980
twice in deep blue Massachusetts, Massachusetts where there’s 3 Republicans huddled

1434
01:30:13,980 –> 01:30:16,560
in a room together somewhere in, like,

1435
01:30:18,960 –> 01:30:22,675
fourth northwestern part of the state up near Rhode Island where they can all

1436
01:30:22,675 –> 01:30:26,355
hide or something. I don’t know. Like, they’re all in a quarter somewhere. You’re telling

1437
01:30:26,355 –> 01:30:30,090
me that a Republican twice convinced Democrats to vote

1438
01:30:30,090 –> 01:30:33,470
for him? Well, don’t forget that Mitt Romney was our governor

1439
01:30:33,690 –> 01:30:37,475
before that, So that’s another Republican. Yeah. Right. Tom Mitt Romney’s from

1440
01:30:37,475 –> 01:30:40,195
a different era. I mean, that’s baked capital. That’s a little bit of different era.

1441
01:30:40,195 –> 01:30:42,755
That’s a little bit better. Yeah. You’re talking about and and and this guy, Charlie

1442
01:30:42,755 –> 01:30:46,120
Baker’s only 67. That’s insane.

1443
01:30:47,460 –> 01:30:51,220
Yeah. That tells you that things are shifting around. And

1444
01:30:51,220 –> 01:30:54,455
it’s not just at the political level. It’s also the social level, which is also

1445
01:30:54,455 –> 01:30:57,275
part of the chaos. It’s at the cultural level that’s also part of the chaos.

1446
01:30:57,335 –> 01:31:00,775
It’s at the spiritual level, which is also part of the chaos. No one ever

1447
01:31:00,775 –> 01:31:04,300
talks about it, but massive evangelical

1448
01:31:04,440 –> 01:31:07,720
churches are beginning to break apart and have been for the last 10 years For

1449
01:31:07,720 –> 01:31:11,465
sure. To to break it. And COVID actually accelerated a lot of that. And none

1450
01:31:11,465 –> 01:31:14,425
of those people that are leaving those churches are going to even bigger churches and

1451
01:31:14,425 –> 01:31:18,205
nor are they creating bigger churches. What they’re doing is they’re creating much smaller churches

1452
01:31:18,650 –> 01:31:22,410
in much more concentrated ways. So you talk about, particularly in the context of

1453
01:31:22,410 –> 01:31:25,290
Little Women, you know, Louisa May Alcott wrote this,

1454
01:31:26,445 –> 01:31:29,985
wrote this underneath the spiritual aegis of the 2nd great awakening.

1455
01:31:30,845 –> 01:31:34,545
I’m of a con I’m convinced that there is another awakening coming

1456
01:31:34,925 –> 01:31:38,430
down the pipeline, but it’s not going to look like the

1457
01:31:38,430 –> 01:31:41,949
awakening we previously had, which

1458
01:31:41,949 –> 01:31:45,744
occurred in the 19 late 19 sixties and 19 seventies in America. That was

1459
01:31:45,744 –> 01:31:49,505
the 3rd great awakening in America. You’re not gonna have

1460
01:31:49,505 –> 01:31:52,625
something that’s gonna look like that. It’s going to look radically different because we’re at

1461
01:31:52,625 –> 01:31:56,469
the end of an era, not the end of a civilization. And I think

1462
01:31:56,469 –> 01:31:59,930
we have to shift our thinking in order to talk about leadership differently

1463
01:32:00,735 –> 01:32:04,434
in a different kind of era. Well, I mean,

1464
01:32:04,895 –> 01:32:08,355
I’m certainly not gonna argue with that because we’ve already seen

1465
01:32:08,974 –> 01:32:12,750
how you talked about the 4 generations living at the same time

1466
01:32:12,750 –> 01:32:16,510
and all this stuff. Like like, there there’s 3 of those generations

1467
01:32:16,510 –> 01:32:20,354
are in the workforce. Right? So you have, like Right. You have, like,

1468
01:32:20,354 –> 01:32:23,981
the the Gen Xers trying to manage and lead Gen Zers

1469
01:32:23,981 –> 01:32:27,730
coming out of college right now. Mhmm. That Tom me is a recipe for

1470
01:32:27,730 –> 01:32:31,570
disaster. Like Well, it’s a it’s what you got.

1471
01:32:31,570 –> 01:32:34,965
But we’ve already but we’ve already faced this. We’ve already faced this with the

1472
01:32:34,965 –> 01:32:38,805
boomers trying to run the millennials Right. And the Gen Xers trying to

1473
01:32:38,805 –> 01:32:42,005
run interference. Right. Right? So this is basically

1474
01:32:42,440 –> 01:32:46,040
again, this whole cyclical thing. Right? So we’re gonna have, like, these these Gen

1475
01:32:46,040 –> 01:32:49,659
Xers trying to run these Gen Zers, but the millennials are gonna run interference.

1476
01:32:50,035 –> 01:32:53,735
Oh, yeah. They’re they’re gonna be the ones that’s that that’s that, like,

1477
01:32:54,595 –> 01:32:58,200
that missing link generation gap thing that we that we have going on here. But

1478
01:32:58,200 –> 01:33:02,040
this has happened throughout history. We’ve seen this happen so many times. But I think

1479
01:33:02,040 –> 01:33:05,845
that I think the learning curves are getting shorter. Right? So when the Gen

1480
01:33:05,845 –> 01:33:09,685
Xers had to deal with the millennials coming in and the the

1481
01:33:09,685 –> 01:33:12,725
look at me, look at me, you know, I win a trophy every time I

1482
01:33:12,725 –> 01:33:16,550
play a sport, so you’re gonna have to deal with this. Like and

1483
01:33:16,550 –> 01:33:20,310
then, of course, I’m the one looking at all of our peers going, hey.

1484
01:33:20,310 –> 01:33:23,364
You created this monster. You were Yeah. It’s it’s a new problem.

1485
01:33:24,784 –> 01:33:27,664
Complain about it. Right? You gotta figure out a way to how to help these

1486
01:33:27,664 –> 01:33:30,704
guys realize like, I was the one I was sitting in there

1487
01:33:31,830 –> 01:33:35,670
Anyway but so now, like like, we’re we’re looking

1488
01:33:35,670 –> 01:33:38,889
at this going, like, these Gen Zers are

1489
01:33:39,510 –> 01:33:43,344
they it’s it’s almost like the Gen x looks at them

1490
01:33:43,344 –> 01:33:47,025
like they have zero work ethic. They don’t know and

1491
01:33:47,025 –> 01:33:50,320
understand. They’ll start a job and then and quit in a month because they don’t

1492
01:33:50,320 –> 01:33:53,280
like the way their boss spoke to them one day. Right? Like, they don’t have

1493
01:33:53,280 –> 01:33:56,655
this and I said I book at them and I went, just wait until they

1494
01:33:56,655 –> 01:34:00,494
have real bills. Right. They’re doing that now

1495
01:34:00,494 –> 01:34:04,070
because they can. And you know what? Let them. Okay. Let

1496
01:34:04,070 –> 01:34:07,430
them. I don’t understand why you’re fighting this. Let them.

1497
01:34:07,430 –> 01:34:11,205
Because you’re you’re gonna go to the next one. At some point, you’re

1498
01:34:11,205 –> 01:34:14,965
you’re gonna hire the right Jesan, and it’s gonna be great and grand and

1499
01:34:14,965 –> 01:34:18,324
whatever. But you can’t hire a

1500
01:34:18,324 –> 01:34:21,950
22, 23 year old right out of college, expect them to have the same work

1501
01:34:21,950 –> 01:34:25,630
ethic that you had when you left. It’s not the same time. We don’t we

1502
01:34:25,630 –> 01:34:29,455
don’t think like that anymore. Like but So I I do I do think they

1503
01:34:29,455 –> 01:34:32,975
will. They they’ll get there. Like I said, when they have real bill these 22

1504
01:34:32,975 –> 01:34:36,575
year olds are coming home, and they’re living at home for the next 4 years

1505
01:34:36,575 –> 01:34:39,770
because they have astronomical student debt and all this other stuff that they have to

1506
01:34:39,770 –> 01:34:43,610
deal with. Mhmm. Once they figure out how to get that under wraps, then

1507
01:34:43,610 –> 01:34:46,795
they start figuring out they wanna go out on their own. Well, we need a

1508
01:34:46,795 –> 01:34:49,755
leader to explain to them how they’re gonna get it out of this is, again,

1509
01:34:49,755 –> 01:34:53,195
this is a leadership problem. I need a leader to

1510
01:34:53,195 –> 01:34:56,570
rise and explain to me how you’re going to walk out of that

1511
01:34:56,570 –> 01:34:59,150
debt in real ways

1512
01:35:01,344 –> 01:35:04,324
without appealing to the government to forgive it.

1513
01:35:05,824 –> 01:35:08,625
Yeah. I mean, I have like I said earlier, I I have one. My daughter

1514
01:35:08,625 –> 01:35:12,150
graduates college next week, and her and I have already sat down with

1515
01:35:12,369 –> 01:35:16,210
with, you know, her short term goals,

1516
01:35:16,210 –> 01:35:19,670
long term goals. What is she gonna do with this this her student debt isn’t

1517
01:35:20,025 –> 01:35:23,065
outrageous. It it’s more than I would like it to be, but it’s not like

1518
01:35:23,225 –> 01:35:26,845
it’s not 100 it’s not 100 it’s not 6 figures. Yeah. Yeah.

1519
01:35:26,905 –> 01:35:30,680
So so but expect her to pay it. I ain’t paying

1520
01:35:30,680 –> 01:35:34,440
it. She’s paying it. Right. Right. So it’s but we’ve we’ve already sat

1521
01:35:34,440 –> 01:35:38,145
down fourth than once. We sat down. We’re talking about this. What

1522
01:35:38,145 –> 01:35:41,985
is your like, so for the next she she’s gonna come home. For

1523
01:35:41,985 –> 01:35:45,130
the next x amount of years, she’s gonna do this. This is how you knock

1524
01:35:45,130 –> 01:35:48,650
down that debt. Once you get to this point, you start looking to move on

1525
01:35:48,650 –> 01:35:52,305
and move out. Right? Like, move on into your own stuff. We are

1526
01:35:52,305 –> 01:35:55,845
basically we we are forcing this generation to delay

1527
01:35:55,905 –> 01:35:59,505
their actual lives because of the student debt. If you do it

1528
01:35:59,505 –> 01:36:03,200
right, you basically you just come home, you pay it off, you move on.

1529
01:36:03,200 –> 01:36:06,160
Like, you if if you do it right. The problem is nobody’s doing that. Nobody’s

1530
01:36:06,320 –> 01:36:09,994
and nobody’s advising kids to do that. They’re basically saying you’re 22, you’re on your

1531
01:36:09,994 –> 01:36:13,434
own, go do your turning, and and that’s why they’re not being able to pay

1532
01:36:13,434 –> 01:36:16,554
these debts. They’re not nobody’s nobody’s teaching them financial

1533
01:36:16,588 –> 01:36:20,300
literature, and they’re not getting it from school. And I

1534
01:36:20,300 –> 01:36:24,060
don’t know why their parents aren’t teaching them, but me and my kids sit and

1535
01:36:24,060 –> 01:36:27,505
talk about finances all the time. So

1536
01:36:28,685 –> 01:36:30,945
As do I in my house

1537
01:36:35,000 –> 01:36:38,840
and back to the book. Back to Little Women.

1538
01:36:38,840 –> 01:36:42,520
We’ve kinda gone a little bit far field, but that’s okay because I’d recommend you

1539
01:36:42,520 –> 01:36:45,705
go out and pick up the book. By the way, the copy that I have

1540
01:36:46,085 –> 01:36:49,764
is a lovely open source version of, of

1541
01:36:49,764 –> 01:36:52,824
Little Women. And so you can find Little Women

1542
01:36:53,670 –> 01:36:57,430
on, the Internet book archive. You

1543
01:36:57,430 –> 01:37:00,730
could find it in a bunch of different other open source spots.

1544
01:37:01,745 –> 01:37:05,585
And so, yeah, I’d recommend you go and pick it up. It

1545
01:37:05,585 –> 01:37:08,325
has entered the, again, entered the public zeitgeist,

1546
01:37:09,585 –> 01:37:13,409
and has created, gosh, just a whole lot of

1547
01:37:13,409 –> 01:37:17,010
different bill a call of different places for us to have conversation and

1548
01:37:17,010 –> 01:37:20,585
have chats. By the way, that

1549
01:37:20,585 –> 01:37:23,405
father’s the the the so the father in Literature Women,

1550
01:37:25,305 –> 01:37:27,405
look this up on Google. Hold on a second.

1551
01:37:30,469 –> 01:37:34,150
Who was the chaplain? There was a book written about him. I

1552
01:37:34,150 –> 01:37:36,810
did reference this earlier, Robert March,

1553
01:37:37,525 –> 01:37:40,824
And the, the father

1554
01:37:41,364 –> 01:37:43,784
was played by

1555
01:37:52,165 –> 01:37:55,864
No. Which is interesting. Bob Odenkirk in the 2019

1556
01:37:56,485 –> 01:38:00,244
version of Literature Women. He was played by, by

1557
01:38:00,244 –> 01:38:03,949
Bob Odenkirk. And, after the

1558
01:38:03,949 –> 01:38:07,630
war, he became a minister, to, to a

1559
01:38:07,630 –> 01:38:11,315
small congregation because that’s it’s basically, you know, what he

1560
01:38:11,315 –> 01:38:14,675
was. And there was a book written about

1561
01:38:14,675 –> 01:38:18,520
him, and I’m looking through the

1562
01:38:18,520 –> 01:38:22,300
Wikipedia currently by

1563
01:38:33,180 –> 01:38:36,219
Can’t find it right now, but I’m going to look it up. I did see

1564
01:38:36,219 –> 01:38:40,000
it actually when I was researching, Little Women,

1565
01:38:41,335 –> 01:38:44,935
and researching this book for the podcast, but there was a book written about him

1566
01:38:44,935 –> 01:38:48,295
by a contemporary author, I think a couple of years ago who kind of fleshed

1567
01:38:48,295 –> 01:38:51,890
out his backstory. Because his backstory is not really, not

1568
01:38:51,890 –> 01:38:55,730
really gone into deeply here. Okay. Back to the book, back to a

1569
01:38:55,730 –> 01:38:59,304
little women, we’re going to pick up, where

1570
01:38:59,364 –> 01:39:00,185
they are.

1571
01:39:04,165 –> 01:39:07,800
Oh, yeah. They’re at a party. So gonna pick that up.

1572
01:39:09,220 –> 01:39:09,720
Alright.

1573
01:39:15,195 –> 01:39:18,875
Down they went, feeling a trifle timid, for they seldom went to parties.

1574
01:39:18,875 –> 01:39:22,230
And informal as this little gathering was, it was an event for them.

1575
01:39:22,550 –> 01:39:25,750
Missus Gardner, a stately old lady, greeted them kindly and handed them over to the

1576
01:39:25,750 –> 01:39:29,430
eldest of her 6 daughters. Meg knew Sally and was at ease very

1577
01:39:29,430 –> 01:39:33,185
soon, but Joe, who didn’t much care for girls or girlish

1578
01:39:33,185 –> 01:39:37,025
gossip, stood about with her back carefully against the wall and felt as much

1579
01:39:37,025 –> 01:39:40,245
out of place as a cult in a flower garden. By the way,

1580
01:39:41,170 –> 01:39:43,889
before they go to this party, just as an interjection fourth they go to this

1581
01:39:43,889 –> 01:39:47,250
party, Louisa May Alcott describes their

1582
01:39:47,250 –> 01:39:51,035
clothing, and, the, the back of one of

1583
01:39:51,035 –> 01:39:54,795
the dresses is actually burned. And so they’re wearing secondhand clothing. They’re

1584
01:39:54,795 –> 01:39:57,679
wearing damaged clothing. They’re trying to make it as good as they possibly can because

1585
01:39:57,679 –> 01:40:00,800
they’re coming out of a place of need because, you know, you have a civil

1586
01:40:00,800 –> 01:40:04,559
war, your supply chains, are disrupted. And these, I mean,

1587
01:40:04,559 –> 01:40:08,179
this is during a time when, you know, you could raise everything literally on

1588
01:40:08,179 –> 01:40:11,933
your own fourth, and people were a lot more self sufficient than they

1589
01:40:11,933 –> 01:40:15,630
are than they are now. That’s sort of the reason why the

1590
01:40:15,630 –> 01:40:19,310
descriptions are structured in the way they are in this particular piece of the

1591
01:40:19,310 –> 01:40:23,125
book. All right. Back to the book. Half a dozen

1592
01:40:23,125 –> 01:40:26,405
Jovial lads were talking about skates in another part of the room, and she longed

1593
01:40:26,405 –> 01:40:28,985
to go and join them for skating was one of the joys of her life.

1594
01:40:29,650 –> 01:40:33,490
She, telegraphed her wish to Meg, but the eyebrows went up so alarmingly that

1595
01:40:33,490 –> 01:40:36,450
she dared not stir. No one came to talk to her, and 1 by 1,

1596
01:40:36,450 –> 01:40:40,005
the group dwindled away until she was left alone. She could not roam about and

1597
01:40:40,005 –> 01:40:43,844
amuse herself fourth the burned breath would show. So she stared at people rather

1598
01:40:43,844 –> 01:40:47,660
for lonely till the dancing Jesan. Meg was

1599
01:40:47,660 –> 01:40:50,860
asked at once and the tight slippers tripped about so briskly that none would have

1600
01:40:50,860 –> 01:40:54,465
guessed the pain. Their wearer suffered smiling late. Joe saw a

1601
01:40:54,465 –> 01:40:58,225
big red headed youth approaching her corner, and fearing he meant to engage her, she

1602
01:40:58,225 –> 01:41:01,985
slipped into a curtained recess, intending to peep and enjoy herself in

1603
01:41:01,985 –> 01:41:05,700
peace. Unfortunately, another bashful person had chosen the same refuge

1604
01:41:05,800 –> 01:41:09,620
Sorrells the curtain fell behind her, she found herself face to face with the quote

1605
01:41:09,620 –> 01:41:13,155
unquote Lawrence book. Dear me. I didn’t know

1606
01:41:13,155 –> 01:41:16,515
anyone was here. Stammer Joe preparing to back out as speedily as she had bounced

1607
01:41:16,515 –> 01:41:20,355
in, but the boy laughed and said, pleasantly though, he looked a little startled.

1608
01:41:20,355 –> 01:41:23,880
Don’t mind me essays if you like Shanti disturb you?

1609
01:41:24,260 –> 01:41:26,900
Not a bit. I only came here because I don’t know many people and felt

1610
01:41:26,900 –> 01:41:30,740
rather strange at first, you know? So did I. Don’t go away, please, unless you’d

1611
01:41:30,740 –> 01:41:34,494
rather. The boy sat down again and looked at his pumps till

1612
01:41:34,494 –> 01:41:38,335
Joe said, trying to be polite and easy. I think I’ve had the pleasure

1613
01:41:38,335 –> 01:41:42,120
of seeing you before you live near us. Don’t you Next door.

1614
01:41:42,180 –> 01:41:45,780
Now you looked up and laughed outright fourth Joe’s prim manner was rather funny, but

1615
01:41:45,780 –> 01:41:49,625
you remembered how they had chatted about cricket when he brought the cat home. That

1616
01:41:49,625 –> 01:41:52,585
put Joe at ease as she laughed Tom, when she said in her heartiest way,

1617
01:41:52,585 –> 01:41:56,264
we did have such a good time over your nice Christmas present. Grandpa sent

1618
01:41:56,264 –> 01:42:00,000
it, but you put it into his head, didn’t you now? How was your Tom?

1619
01:42:00,000 –> 01:42:03,520
Miss March asked the boy turning to look sober while his black eyes shown with

1620
01:42:03,520 –> 01:42:07,200
fun. Nicely. Thank you, mr. Lawrence, but I am not miss March. I’m

1621
01:42:07,200 –> 01:42:10,775
only Joe returned the young lady. I’m not mister Lawrence. I’m only

1622
01:42:10,867 –> 01:42:14,614
Fourth. Laurie Lawrence. What an odd name. My first name

1623
01:42:14,614 –> 01:42:17,920
is Theodore, but I don’t like it for the fellows. Call me Dora. I made

1624
01:42:17,920 –> 01:42:21,680
them essays Fourth instead. I hate my name too. So sentimental. I

1625
01:42:21,680 –> 01:42:25,120
wish everyone would say Joe instead of Josephine. How did you make the books stop

1626
01:42:25,120 –> 01:42:27,285
calling you Dora? I thrashed him.

1627
01:42:29,105 –> 01:42:32,405
I can’t really pause for just a moment.

1628
01:42:32,865 –> 01:42:36,450
That’s I mean, turns out the male and female

1629
01:42:36,910 –> 01:42:40,590
sexual politics are pretty much the same throughout throughout

1630
01:42:40,642 –> 01:42:44,355
Tom. Back to the book. I can’t thrash on March, so I suppose I

1631
01:42:44,355 –> 01:42:48,035
shall have to bear it. And Joe resigned herself with a sigh. Now would you

1632
01:42:48,035 –> 01:42:50,915
like to dance, miss Joe? Asked Laurie book as if he thought the name suited

1633
01:42:50,915 –> 01:42:54,300
her. I like it well enough if there’s plenty of room and everyone is lively.

1634
01:42:54,360 –> 01:42:57,400
In a place like this, I’m sure to upset something, tread on people’s toes, or

1635
01:42:57,400 –> 01:43:00,940
do something dreadful. So I keep out of mischief and let Meg bail about.

1636
01:43:01,125 –> 01:43:04,804
Don’t you dance? Sometimes you see I’ve been abroad a good many

1637
01:43:04,804 –> 01:43:08,025
years and haven’t been into company enough yet to know how you do things here.

1638
01:43:08,245 –> 01:43:11,690
Abroad cried a Joe. Oh, tell me about it. I love Tom dearly to hear

1639
01:43:11,690 –> 01:43:15,530
people describe their travels. Laurie didn’t seem to know where to begin, but

1640
01:43:15,530 –> 01:43:18,330
Joe’s eager questions soon sent him going, and he told her how he had been

1641
01:43:18,330 –> 01:43:22,095
to school in Vive, where the boys never wore hats and had a fleet

1642
01:43:22,095 –> 01:43:25,875
of boats on the lake and for holiday fun, went on walking trips about Switzerland

1643
01:43:25,935 –> 01:43:29,449
with their teachers. Don’t I wish I’d been there, cried Joe. Did you go to

1644
01:43:29,449 –> 01:43:33,070
Paris? We spent last winter there. Can you talk French?

1645
01:43:33,290 –> 01:43:37,114
We were not allowed to speak anything else at Vivek. You say some, I can

1646
01:43:37,114 –> 01:43:40,954
read it, but I can’t pronounce it. I can’t read

1647
01:43:40,954 –> 01:43:44,440
it either, but he’s going to say something about something. How nicely you do

1648
01:43:44,440 –> 01:43:48,120
it. Let me see. You said, who was the young lady of the pretty

1649
01:43:48,120 –> 01:43:51,720
slippers? Didn’t you this? I can essays though, we

1650
01:43:51,720 –> 01:43:55,505
mad Mozilla. It’s my sister, Margaret, and you knew it was. Don’t you think she’s

1651
01:43:55,505 –> 01:43:58,784
pretty? Yeah. She makes me think of the German girl. She looks so fresh and

1652
01:43:58,784 –> 01:44:02,530
quiet and dances like a lady. Joe glowed with

1653
01:44:02,530 –> 01:44:05,570
pleasure at this boyish praise of her sister and stored it up to repeat to

1654
01:44:05,570 –> 01:44:09,010
Meg. Both peeped and criticized and chatted till they felt like old

1655
01:44:09,010 –> 01:44:12,745
acquaintances. Laurie’s bashfulness soon wore off for Joe’s gentlemanly

1656
01:44:12,805 –> 01:44:16,565
demeanor, amused and set him at his ease. And Joe

1657
01:44:16,565 –> 01:44:20,160
was her Mary self again, because her dress was forgotten and nobody lifted their eyebrows

1658
01:44:20,160 –> 01:44:23,600
at her. She liked the Lawrence boy better than ever and took several good looks

1659
01:44:23,600 –> 01:44:26,375
at him so that she might describe him to the girls, for they had no

1660
01:44:26,375 –> 01:44:29,735
brothers, very few male cousins, and boys were almost unknown creatures to

1661
01:44:29,735 –> 01:44:33,495
them. Curly black hair, brown skin, big black eyes, hands and

1662
01:44:33,495 –> 01:44:36,630
nose, fine teeth, small hands and feet taller than I am very polite for a

1663
01:44:36,630 –> 01:44:40,250
boy and altogether jolly wonder how old he is by the way. Pause.

1664
01:44:41,190 –> 01:44:43,050
That’s an Instagram description.

1665
01:44:46,865 –> 01:44:49,685
Again, nothing’s changed. Our technology is just better.

1666
01:44:51,000 –> 01:44:53,880
Back to the book. It was on the tip of Joe’s tongue to ask, but

1667
01:44:53,880 –> 01:44:57,320
she checked herself in Tom. It was unusual tact, tried to find out in a

1668
01:44:57,320 –> 01:45:01,065
roundabout way. I suppose you’re going to college soon. I see

1669
01:45:01,065 –> 01:45:04,505
you pegging away at your books. No, I mean turning hard. And Joe blushed at

1670
01:45:04,505 –> 01:45:08,270
the dreadful pegging which had escaped her. Laurie smiled, but he didn’t seem

1671
01:45:08,270 –> 01:45:11,310
shocked and answered with a shrug, not for a year or 2. I won’t go

1672
01:45:11,310 –> 01:45:15,150
before 17 anyway. Aren’t you but 15? Asked Joe, looking at the tall

1673
01:45:15,150 –> 01:45:18,585
lad whom she imagined 17 already. 16 next

1674
01:45:18,585 –> 01:45:21,865
month. How I wish I was going to college. You don’t look as if you

1675
01:45:21,865 –> 01:45:25,690
liked it. I hate it. Nothing but grinding or skylarking, and

1676
01:45:25,690 –> 01:45:29,130
I don’t like the way fellows do either in this country. What do you

1677
01:45:29,130 –> 01:45:32,510
like? To live in Italy and to enjoy myself

1678
01:45:32,845 –> 01:45:34,075
in my own way?

1679
01:45:41,130 –> 01:45:44,030
I was gonna talk about one thing, but I’m gonna talk about something else. So

1680
01:45:51,105 –> 01:45:54,784
It turns out that men and women still meet each other the exact same way

1681
01:45:54,784 –> 01:45:58,510
even in our era. It also

1682
01:45:58,510 –> 01:46:02,270
turns out that the conversation is probably the most important part

1683
01:46:02,270 –> 01:46:05,250
of the mating ritual. And,

1684
01:46:06,534 –> 01:46:09,435
yes, we do it on Tinder and grinder and

1685
01:46:10,054 –> 01:46:13,815
only fans and Instagram reels and all this other

1686
01:46:13,815 –> 01:46:17,139
nonsense these days. But if you took away all of that stuff,

1687
01:46:17,760 –> 01:46:20,500
the much talked about gen Zers who by the way,

1688
01:46:21,440 –> 01:46:25,195
are apparently engaged according to statistics in the least

1689
01:46:25,255 –> 01:46:28,935
amount of sexual behavior, both men and women of any generation

1690
01:46:28,935 –> 01:46:31,835
in the last fourth generations of American history,

1691
01:46:32,920 –> 01:46:35,960
apparently are struggling with, and we need to teach them how to talk to each

1692
01:46:35,960 –> 01:46:39,580
other. So, I know that Tom has

1693
01:46:40,040 –> 01:46:43,855
young people in his home. I have had and

1694
01:46:43,855 –> 01:46:47,615
do have young people in my home. And one of the things that I do

1695
01:46:47,615 –> 01:46:51,075
is I take away the phones and force them to go talk to other people.

1696
01:46:51,719 –> 01:46:55,500
Makes for exciting times. I fourth them to speak in double.

1697
01:47:00,655 –> 01:47:04,495
No. No. No. No joke. We so as Hae san knows, we have

1698
01:47:04,495 –> 01:47:08,260
a very deep rooted cultural, you know, background,

1699
01:47:08,880 –> 01:47:12,720
and we are invited to do these guest lectures all the time

1700
01:47:12,720 –> 01:47:16,554
at either colleges, universities, religious,

1701
01:47:18,054 –> 01:47:21,815
environments, whether it be, you know, UU what is it called?

1702
01:47:21,815 –> 01:47:25,350
U, yeah, UU churches or something like that. United. No. No.

1703
01:47:25,350 –> 01:47:28,650
Universal Oh, the Unitarians. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

1704
01:47:29,110 –> 01:47:32,870
But anyway Yeah. Nice. But, you know, come all you faithful. Right? Anyway

1705
01:47:33,030 –> 01:47:35,945
Mhmm. I’m sorry. I don’t mean to make fun if any of you are. You

1706
01:47:35,945 –> 01:47:39,705
you I I don’t mean that as a as a dig. Anyway

1707
01:47:39,785 –> 01:47:43,140
but but we get invited to all these things, and I I go and I

1708
01:47:43,140 –> 01:47:46,980
do a lot of speaking engagements. And one of the ways that I I kinda

1709
01:47:46,980 –> 01:47:50,420
get I force them to the front of the line. I say, well, I

1710
01:47:50,420 –> 01:47:54,135
wanna talk about a particular topic. You’re gonna talk about it

1711
01:47:54,135 –> 01:47:57,815
because the age you are, it comes differently from you

1712
01:47:57,815 –> 01:48:01,329
than it does fourth me. Right? So, like, certain things are

1713
01:48:01,329 –> 01:48:05,170
just, you know so so to your point, you get rid of the

1714
01:48:05,170 –> 01:48:08,665
phones. Well, you know, when we’re in those environments you

1715
01:48:08,665 –> 01:48:12,344
can. We’re in those environments. We don’t have our phones anyway, so I can’t take

1716
01:48:12,344 –> 01:48:15,485
the phone. They don’t have the phone, but I fourth them to speak in public.

1717
01:48:15,760 –> 01:48:19,520
None of my kids are afraid of public speaking, by the way. Okay. They’re

1718
01:48:19,520 –> 01:48:23,220
not afraid of public speaking, but are they afraid of approaching someone

1719
01:48:23,440 –> 01:48:26,685
1 on 1 and having a conversation with them? Because I noticed this starting to

1720
01:48:26,685 –> 01:48:30,045
happen probably book 10 years ago. What happens at the end of

1721
01:48:30,045 –> 01:48:33,890
these at the end of these lectures is we end up sitting on

1722
01:48:33,890 –> 01:48:37,730
the side and people come up to them all the time to ask additional

1723
01:48:37,730 –> 01:48:41,190
questions fourth, like so they are forced to

1724
01:48:41,555 –> 01:48:45,395
to speak 1 on 1 with them. Now, it is a little different to

1725
01:48:45,395 –> 01:48:49,110
your point. They’re not they’re the ones being come up to. They’re

1726
01:48:49,110 –> 01:48:52,950
not usually they’re not going out and seeking these people after these events and

1727
01:48:52,950 –> 01:48:55,670
saying, hey. Do you have any additional questions? I’d like to, you know, ask me

1728
01:48:55,670 –> 01:48:59,105
this, ask me that, whatever. But it still forces a 1 on 1

1729
01:48:59,105 –> 01:49:02,804
conversation after the fact. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

1730
01:49:03,105 –> 01:49:06,949
No. That’s good. I when I read this whole entire section with,

1731
01:49:07,010 –> 01:49:10,530
you know, with Lawrence and Joe, and they’re running around, and then there’s other aspects

1732
01:49:10,530 –> 01:49:14,304
of that in the book as well, A little bit of talking and

1733
01:49:14,304 –> 01:49:18,085
the book does sort of address their not really courtship,

1734
01:49:18,465 –> 01:49:22,085
but they’re sort of in the 19th century way, kinda going around and around,

1735
01:49:22,739 –> 01:49:25,160
just like in war and peace, which we talked about.

1736
01:49:26,139 –> 01:49:28,360
I know how that opened with a party.

1737
01:49:30,375 –> 01:49:31,675
I I think we

1738
01:49:34,935 –> 01:49:38,074
again, it’s the end of an era, right, not the end of a civilization.

1739
01:49:38,455 –> 01:49:41,850
So I think part of the end of an era of mass

1740
01:49:41,850 –> 01:49:45,530
communication or putting

1741
01:49:45,530 –> 01:49:49,364
people in situations where, are not

1742
01:49:49,364 –> 01:49:53,125
putting people. We we we are at

1743
01:49:53,125 –> 01:49:55,545
an end of a of an era when

1744
01:49:57,650 –> 01:50:01,110
the ability to engage with people

1745
01:50:01,250 –> 01:50:03,510
in mass 1 on 1 in person

1746
01:50:08,675 –> 01:50:12,115
is less useful for getting the message out, whatever your message may happen to

1747
01:50:12,115 –> 01:50:15,600
be, than, you know, engaging with someone

1748
01:50:15,600 –> 01:50:19,360
electronically or engaging with people electronically and hoping that

1749
01:50:19,360 –> 01:50:23,200
you’re blasting into this, you know, void of people who are going

1750
01:50:23,200 –> 01:50:26,145
to engage with you, which of course is what the internet has taught us. It’s

1751
01:50:26,145 –> 01:50:28,725
taught us how to do that. So, you know, I’m sure.

1752
01:50:29,824 –> 01:50:33,600
Your kids know just as well as mine, do that, you know,

1753
01:50:33,600 –> 01:50:37,440
if they have 11,000 followers on Instagram, you know, they can

1754
01:50:37,440 –> 01:50:41,205
go talk to all 11,000 of those people, which is way more than the

1755
01:50:41,205 –> 01:50:44,805
100 people or 200 people that may walk up to them. You

1756
01:50:44,805 –> 01:50:47,685
know, 10% of who may actually have a question for them at the end of

1757
01:50:47,685 –> 01:50:51,370
a particular speaking engagement. You know, if the percentages are the same with

1758
01:50:51,370 –> 01:50:54,750
your engagements as they have been with mine in the past, it’s usually under 10%.

1759
01:50:55,210 –> 01:50:58,864
Yeah. You know, and so where the

1760
01:50:58,864 –> 01:51:02,705
value is, I think also is, is something that’s shifting around and we don’t really

1761
01:51:02,705 –> 01:51:06,305
know how to effectively articulate that to people. And so I try to

1762
01:51:06,305 –> 01:51:09,870
articulate to my kids that the value of

1763
01:51:09,870 –> 01:51:13,250
engagement is in that interaction with that human being,

1764
01:51:13,550 –> 01:51:16,610
not in the technological objects you have in your hand.

1765
01:51:17,815 –> 01:51:21,595
Sure. And that’s a very, that’s a difficult lesson to kind of get across.

1766
01:51:22,535 –> 01:51:26,215
Sometimes you gotta be, well, sometimes it’s like taking away the stick from my

1767
01:51:26,215 –> 01:51:29,830
7 year old old who wants to put in his mouth. So Well

1768
01:51:29,910 –> 01:51:33,110
and I think there’s something to be said too. So I the whole taking away

1769
01:51:33,110 –> 01:51:36,895
the phone thing, I I I don’t quote, unquote take it from

1770
01:51:36,895 –> 01:51:40,495
them. But we’ve had a we’ve had a long standing tradition in my house where

1771
01:51:40,495 –> 01:51:44,035
we don’t bring the cell phones to the dinner table. So, like Yeah.

1772
01:51:44,260 –> 01:51:47,140
No. We don’t sit down and eat dinner every day at 5 o’clock. Like, we’re

1773
01:51:47,140 –> 01:51:50,500
not that kind of family. And and if if everyone’s schedule is all over the

1774
01:51:50,500 –> 01:51:53,775
place and, you know, and you’re sitting down at the dinner table by yourself and

1775
01:51:53,775 –> 01:51:57,375
eating to have your phone. Who cares? But the second an additional

1776
01:51:57,375 –> 01:52:01,054
person sits down there with you, the both of you put your phone aside. Yeah.

1777
01:52:01,054 –> 01:52:04,869
Like, that’s kind of been a rule of thumb. Now that goes to before my

1778
01:52:04,869 –> 01:52:07,750
kids even had cell phones and I was my my wife and I were the

1779
01:52:07,750 –> 01:52:11,505
only ones in the house that had cell phones. Yeah. We we wouldn’t bring

1780
01:52:11,505 –> 01:52:15,265
our cell phones to the table. So we Yeah. It just became a habit that

1781
01:52:15,345 –> 01:52:18,545
and because mom and dad did it when our kids were teenagers and started getting

1782
01:52:18,545 –> 01:52:22,330
cell phones, they just followed suit. So they Right. And now my kids are

1783
01:52:22,330 –> 01:52:26,170
all even though they are young, they’re still young adults. So my again, my

1784
01:52:26,170 –> 01:52:29,755
my youngest is graduating college next week. But as

1785
01:52:29,835 –> 01:52:33,515
even as adults, they still come to the dinner table with no cell phone. Like,

1786
01:52:33,515 –> 01:52:36,955
that’s just it’s been a habit of ours. So and to your point, it’s just

1787
01:52:36,955 –> 01:52:40,700
because you wanna be in the moment. It’s not about like, for us,

1788
01:52:40,700 –> 01:52:44,300
it’s not about we don’t use that

1789
01:52:44,300 –> 01:52:47,965
scenario to justify the quality interaction with human to

1790
01:52:47,965 –> 01:52:51,805
human interaction. We justify getting rid of the

1791
01:52:51,805 –> 01:52:55,500
cell phones in that environment about being in the moment. In the moment. Yep.

1792
01:52:55,500 –> 01:52:59,260
Because it’s not about 1 on 1 interaction at that point. We have very

1793
01:52:59,260 –> 01:53:02,195
typically, just to give you an idea, we don’t eat every day dinner. We don’t

1794
01:53:02,195 –> 01:53:05,815
eat dinner every day as a family, but on Sunday, we do. Sunday’s our day.

1795
01:53:06,195 –> 01:53:09,960
Everybody comes to the table. There’s usually 10, 12 of us that sit at the

1796
01:53:09,960 –> 01:53:13,720
table depending on who’s coming over for dinner. Like, my nephew will come, my aunt

1797
01:53:13,800 –> 01:53:17,545
you know, whatever. So we’ll have additional family members. But you’re

1798
01:53:17,545 –> 01:53:21,145
not getting 1 on 1 interaction at that point, but it’s still not any less

1799
01:53:21,145 –> 01:53:24,825
valuable to have that collective of human

1800
01:53:24,825 –> 01:53:28,650
interaction and the different varying degrees of generations at the table

1801
01:53:28,650 –> 01:53:32,170
and Yeah. You know, like, we have, my nephew has a daughter who’s only

1802
01:53:32,170 –> 01:53:35,784
2a half years old. It’s important for her to see a 2a half that we’re

1803
01:53:35,784 –> 01:53:39,385
all talking to each other and not looking at our phones. Right? So

1804
01:53:39,625 –> 01:53:42,185
There’s there’s an important piece in a little bit which we’re not gonna get to

1805
01:53:42,185 –> 01:53:44,239
today because we gotta wrap this up. But,

1806
01:53:45,820 –> 01:53:49,580
there’s an important piece where they sacrifice, the the March

1807
01:53:49,580 –> 01:53:53,355
family does. They sacrifice their, their Christmas, right.

1808
01:53:54,135 –> 01:53:57,735
For a family that’s down the street. Right. Who’s, you

1809
01:53:57,735 –> 01:54:01,255
know, they’re they’re immigrants, and they’re poverty stricken.

1810
01:54:01,255 –> 01:54:05,050
And so so they literally pick up their entire Christmas and they take it

1811
01:54:05,050 –> 01:54:08,570
down the street, you know, and they’re stuffing, you know,

1812
01:54:08,570 –> 01:54:12,265
cloths and holes in windows and they’re feeding like little sickly, the little

1813
01:54:12,265 –> 01:54:15,785
sickly kid and, you know, they’re giving up their, their Christmas,

1814
01:54:16,025 –> 01:54:19,785
breakfast, which is like milk and bread. Like it wasn’t anything

1815
01:54:19,785 –> 01:54:23,560
huge, but those people had nothing. Right. And so they’re taking that down the

1816
01:54:23,560 –> 01:54:26,680
street to those folks. And it’s a, it’s a touching moment. And I think it’s

1817
01:54:26,680 –> 01:54:30,460
in like chapter 3 or 4 of, of literature women.

1818
01:54:31,585 –> 01:54:35,425
And that ties into what you’re talking

1819
01:54:35,425 –> 01:54:39,105
about here. Because one of the, one of the thread lines through

1820
01:54:39,105 –> 01:54:42,100
the book is, traditions,

1821
01:54:42,774 –> 01:54:46,480
writers? And the power of traditions, right? Even in the midst of an

1822
01:54:46,480 –> 01:54:50,315
apocalyptic civil war where everything’s falling apart, you can’t get anything more than bread and

1823
01:54:50,315 –> 01:54:53,615
milk on Christmas. There are still traditions

1824
01:54:54,315 –> 01:54:57,535
that matter to engage with folks around.

1825
01:54:59,080 –> 01:55:02,860
And one of the things that is interesting to me is

1826
01:55:05,320 –> 01:55:08,485
as society gets redefined

1827
01:55:09,025 –> 01:55:12,705
in a, in a, in a seculum at the end of a

1828
01:55:12,705 –> 01:55:16,390
seculum cycle, right? At the end of a historical cycle, traditions

1829
01:55:16,390 –> 01:55:19,610
get redefined as well, but

1830
01:55:21,590 –> 01:55:25,255
the core of what people require Has it

1831
01:55:25,255 –> 01:55:28,935
changed for 5000 years? How

1832
01:55:28,935 –> 01:55:32,614
we do that may change, writers? Or the

1833
01:55:32,614 –> 01:55:35,840
manner, even the tools we use maybe might change,

1834
01:55:36,300 –> 01:55:40,000
but we still require Tom your point.

1835
01:55:40,219 –> 01:55:43,655
1 on 1 engagement with a real human being without technological

1836
01:55:44,675 –> 01:55:48,355
or, or object interference, you know,

1837
01:55:48,355 –> 01:55:51,495
you still require that because how else are you going to learn about community

1838
01:55:52,630 –> 01:55:56,090
at 2 other than experiencing community at 2.

1839
01:55:56,310 –> 01:55:59,610
Right. And the families that do that,

1840
01:56:01,285 –> 01:56:03,145
are the ones that are going to,

1841
01:56:05,925 –> 01:56:09,380
make sure the republic stays together. And I don’t care what color they are. I

1842
01:56:09,380 –> 01:56:11,699
don’t care what class group they come from. I don’t care about any of that

1843
01:56:11,699 –> 01:56:15,380
crap that all becomes nonsense after at a certain point, or maybe I should say

1844
01:56:15,380 –> 01:56:19,005
nonsense sauce for the goose. Writers. It’s about, do you have those

1845
01:56:19,005 –> 01:56:22,685
traditions? So I know many people who come out of,

1846
01:56:22,685 –> 01:56:26,465
and we’re talking about, you know, talking at, at, at like a Unitarian

1847
01:56:26,605 –> 01:56:30,420
church. I know many people who come out of specific religious traditions that’s

1848
01:56:30,420 –> 01:56:33,700
and that’s what they do on Saturdays or Sundays or Fridays, you know? And so

1849
01:56:33,700 –> 01:56:37,465
they have those traditions, in my household. You

1850
01:56:37,465 –> 01:56:41,225
know, we do try not try. We do as many days of the week

1851
01:56:41,225 –> 01:56:45,065
as we can to eat together, period. So younger when

1852
01:56:45,065 –> 01:56:47,600
my kids were younger, we did too. It’s just, as they got older, it’s just

1853
01:56:47,600 –> 01:56:51,360
got impossible. Yeah. It becomes more of a challenge, to your point,

1854
01:56:51,360 –> 01:56:54,640
it becomes more of a challenge. But even my wife and I were talking about

1855
01:56:54,640 –> 01:56:58,345
that because we’re not quite there yet, but it’s coming. We’re

1856
01:56:58,345 –> 01:57:02,045
like, you know, it’s just gonna be her and me.

1857
01:57:02,105 –> 01:57:05,920
That’s it. Just the 2 of you. Just the 2 of you. Just the 2

1858
01:57:05,920 –> 01:57:07,380
of us, like it says in that song.

1859
01:57:09,920 –> 01:57:13,224
And so, you know, one of the things we were joking about was,

1860
01:57:14,165 –> 01:57:17,844
you know, we have to eat at least 1 meal a day together just

1861
01:57:17,844 –> 01:57:20,665
to see each other. Right. That’s tradition.

1862
01:57:22,390 –> 01:57:25,750
That matters even at the end of an era that

1863
01:57:25,750 –> 01:57:28,890
matters. Okay. Solutions to problems.

1864
01:57:29,865 –> 01:57:33,705
Let’s talk about solutions. I don’t know if we’ve resolved anything.

1865
01:57:33,705 –> 01:57:36,985
This is like the 3rd or 4th episode we’ve done. We haven’t resolved anything. We

1866
01:57:36,985 –> 01:57:39,145
just talked a little bit about the book and then we brought up a bunch

1867
01:57:39,145 –> 01:57:42,170
of things. There’s a little there’s a little thing here, though. There’s a there’s a

1868
01:57:42,170 –> 01:57:45,450
little thing that just to wrap up what you and I were just talking about

1869
01:57:45,690 –> 01:57:48,730
Yeah. With the traditions and the cell phone thing and the dinner and all that

1870
01:57:48,730 –> 01:57:52,555
stuff. There’s a little thing there that leaders, in my opinion,

1871
01:57:52,555 –> 01:57:55,615
can take and a small solution to the problem that

1872
01:57:56,610 –> 01:57:59,490
kinda went away a little bit if you think about it in, like, the early

1873
01:57:59,490 –> 01:58:02,930
2000, which was leaders, they need to lead by

1874
01:58:02,930 –> 01:58:06,555
example. Right? Like and and I don’t see a lot of

1875
01:58:06,555 –> 01:58:10,255
leaders going out of their way to sacrifice,

1876
01:58:10,475 –> 01:58:13,830
as you just mentioned about in the book. Do you make

1877
01:58:13,830 –> 01:58:17,510
sacrifices? Do your employees see you make sacrifices for the betterment of the

1878
01:58:17,510 –> 01:58:21,130
company? Do fourth employees see you making sacrifices

1879
01:58:21,270 –> 01:58:24,695
for the betterment of them? Like, are you willing to

1880
01:58:24,695 –> 01:58:28,534
take a to Tom sacrifice certain things? I’ll give you

1881
01:58:28,534 –> 01:58:32,170
an example. I was I I I have a client of obviously no

1882
01:58:32,170 –> 01:58:35,470
names mentioned. I have a client that was struggling through COVID.

1883
01:58:36,090 –> 01:58:39,795
He eliminated his own salary so that he did not lay anybody

1884
01:58:39,795 –> 01:58:43,475
off. And and they were still doing business. They just wasn’t

1885
01:58:43,475 –> 01:58:46,995
busy enough for Mhmm. He he had he had to make a decision. Do

1886
01:58:46,995 –> 01:58:50,800
I lay off whatever it was? I don’t remember the equivalent. It was 2 or

1887
01:58:50,800 –> 01:58:54,239
3 people, whatever, in order for me to not to take a

1888
01:58:54,239 –> 01:58:58,055
hit. And he decided not to he elected to eliminate hit.

1889
01:58:58,055 –> 01:59:01,275
What do you think that does for him in the emotional

1890
01:59:01,575 –> 01:59:05,330
equity of his people? Right?

1891
01:59:05,330 –> 01:59:09,010
No. They’re they’re not quitting. I’m sorry. I hate to tell you this. They’re never

1892
01:59:09,010 –> 01:59:12,725
quitting that job. That guy probably just kept 20 people for

1893
01:59:12,725 –> 01:59:16,485
the rest of his life as as a leader. If he decides to close-up

1894
01:59:16,485 –> 01:59:20,244
his company and start working for somebody else, all 20 of those people are gonna

1895
01:59:20,244 –> 01:59:23,930
go work. But but we don’t see enough of that kind of,

1896
01:59:23,930 –> 01:59:27,470
like, the solution. It’s so simple.

1897
01:59:27,850 –> 01:59:31,645
Like, are you making sacrifice? No. He didn’t have to he probably didn’t

1898
01:59:31,645 –> 01:59:34,845
have to take the hit on his whole salary. He could’ve taken half and laid

1899
01:59:34,845 –> 01:59:38,365
off 1 person or 2 people instead of 4. He probably would’ve

1900
01:59:38,365 –> 01:59:42,050
got similar results from the from the

1901
01:59:42,050 –> 01:59:45,490
emotional response from his people, but he felt

1902
01:59:45,490 –> 01:59:49,185
compelled to save all of them. I don’t think we see that,

1903
01:59:49,185 –> 01:59:53,025
and we certainly don’t see that in bigger companies. Are you kidding me? Don’t even

1904
01:59:53,025 –> 01:59:56,810
get me started. The, you know, inflated bonuses and

1905
01:59:56,810 –> 02:00:00,489
all this other BS when it comes to, like, big companies that that just

1906
02:00:00,489 –> 02:00:04,235
take and take and take. But to your point earlier about local government

1907
02:00:04,235 –> 02:00:07,995
and local small businesses, I do find there’s real leadership

1908
02:00:07,995 –> 02:00:10,415
there. I do find that that some of those solutions

1909
02:00:11,990 –> 02:00:15,610
I think one of our bigger problems, we don’t allow those solutions

1910
02:00:16,470 –> 02:00:20,310
to be the answer above, like, to to to push the to push it up

1911
02:00:20,470 –> 02:00:24,185
Yes. And say, you know I I

1912
02:00:24,185 –> 02:00:27,465
don’t know. I I I just I don’t know a salespeople or fourth fortune 500

1913
02:00:27,465 –> 02:00:30,969
company that would have done what that guy did. So there’s a there’s a

1914
02:00:30,969 –> 02:00:34,489
biblical admonition here that I wrote in my notes. Love your neighbor as

1915
02:00:34,489 –> 02:00:38,090
yourself, you know, which is what we always think of, but,

1916
02:00:38,090 –> 02:00:41,724
actually, Jesus starts with this one. He says, love the lord fourth

1917
02:00:41,724 –> 02:00:44,764
god with all of your heart, all fourth mind, and all of your your your

1918
02:00:44,764 –> 02:00:48,350
soul. In some translations, it’s all of your spirit, but whatever. I’m not gonna get

1919
02:00:48,350 –> 02:00:51,890
into theological Disney just to give you the whole turning. Right? Right writers. Right there.

1920
02:00:52,110 –> 02:00:55,870
And then he does, and love your neighbor as

1921
02:00:55,870 –> 02:00:59,565
yourself. And then he follows up with, and the entire

1922
02:00:59,565 –> 02:01:03,245
law and the commandments rest on these two ideas. That’s the

1923
02:01:03,245 –> 02:01:06,980
whole structure of reality. So love the thing

1924
02:01:06,980 –> 02:01:10,739
that you have above you, the hierarchy. Right? And

1925
02:01:10,739 –> 02:01:14,280
in order Tom your point about the boss, in order to serve that hierarchy,

1926
02:01:15,125 –> 02:01:18,965
sacrifice and love your neighbor as you would love yourself. Because what would you

1927
02:01:18,965 –> 02:01:22,725
want your neighbor to do for you? Yeah. You would want your neighbor

1928
02:01:22,725 –> 02:01:26,489
to sacrifice what they had for

1929
02:01:26,630 –> 02:01:30,230
you if you were in that situation. And you’re right. If we

1930
02:01:30,230 –> 02:01:34,005
saw that at scale, like I, there was a local election. I’m not

1931
02:01:34,005 –> 02:01:37,205
going to get into the specifics of it, obviously for, fourth a local municipality that

1932
02:01:37,205 –> 02:01:40,665
I live in and they are asking

1933
02:01:41,205 –> 02:01:44,640
the people of the municipality to

1934
02:01:44,640 –> 02:01:47,533
vote for a tax increase in Jesan.

1935
02:01:48,960 –> 02:01:52,525
And the people who are the people who are going to

1936
02:01:52,525 –> 02:01:56,045
benefit from that are not setting down their salaries at

1937
02:01:56,045 –> 02:01:59,840
all. And it keeps getting

1938
02:01:59,840 –> 02:02:03,620
voted down and they can’t understand why.

1939
02:02:04,320 –> 02:02:08,115
And I I I literature go, it’s because you’re not making

1940
02:02:08,115 –> 02:02:11,875
the appropriate sacrifice in the direct in the correct direction. And

1941
02:02:11,875 –> 02:02:15,315
so I think one of the major solutions to our problems

1942
02:02:15,315 –> 02:02:18,760
is leaders just gotta start making appropriate

1943
02:02:18,820 –> 02:02:22,659
sacrifices fourth to your point, leading by example. Absolutely

1944
02:02:22,659 –> 02:02:26,415
right. Again, you know, it it it’s funny. I I saw within

1945
02:02:26,415 –> 02:02:30,035
1 generation turning about, you know, love thy neighbor. Right?

1946
02:02:30,095 –> 02:02:33,860
Yeah. And I saw it never mind

1947
02:02:34,159 –> 02:02:37,920
never mind love your neighbor. Yeah. No. Do you actually do you actually know

1948
02:02:37,920 –> 02:02:41,385
your neighbor? Because I saw Right. I’ve seen I’ve seen in one generation

1949
02:02:41,605 –> 02:02:45,445
that the neighbors across the street from us, my my kids don’t

1950
02:02:45,445 –> 02:02:48,345
even know them. They they have no idea who they are. They don’t like,

1951
02:02:49,350 –> 02:02:52,470
that Tom me is even weird. Like, I grew up in a neighborhood where I

1952
02:02:52,470 –> 02:02:55,930
literally could throw a rock and

1953
02:02:57,175 –> 02:03:00,935
I’ll say it this way. I could be I could be down

1954
02:03:00,935 –> 02:03:04,295
3 streets away, throw a rock and break a car

1955
02:03:04,295 –> 02:03:07,989
window and say, oh, crap. I’m out of here. Run home. By the time I

1956
02:03:07,989 –> 02:03:11,590
got to my house, my mother would know about it. Mhmm. Yeah. They’re like, oh

1957
02:03:11,590 –> 02:03:14,150
my god. Missus Libby, did you know that your son broke the window? Blah blah

1958
02:03:14,150 –> 02:03:16,445
blah. I’d walk in the house, and my mother was like, what are you thinking?

1959
02:03:16,445 –> 02:03:20,045
And I’m like, oh, crap. I forgot. You already knew. Like, because all the neighbors

1960
02:03:20,045 –> 02:03:23,780
knew each other. They would Right. They would talk to that it takes a village

1961
02:03:23,780 –> 02:03:27,460
thing is gone, and I don’t understand why. I don’t understand why. I

1962
02:03:27,460 –> 02:03:31,295
think I think we’re losing I I guess it goes back to what

1963
02:03:31,295 –> 02:03:34,895
you were talking about, getting rid of the cell phone. The distraction caused different

1964
02:03:34,895 –> 02:03:38,480
problems. The more technology we get, the more problem. We’re we’re

1965
02:03:38,480 –> 02:03:41,040
losing sight of, like, the

1966
02:03:43,520 –> 02:03:47,125
I I’ll go one step further here because I I never bought

1967
02:03:47,125 –> 02:03:50,745
into the whole, you know, treat someone

1968
02:03:51,365 –> 02:03:55,205
like, I the phrase. Right? Treat somebody the way that you wanna be treated. Mhmm.

1969
02:03:55,205 –> 02:03:58,990
Yep. I think that’s crap. I always tell my kids,

1970
02:03:58,990 –> 02:04:02,190
treat somebody the way they wanna be treated because it might not be the way

1971
02:04:02,190 –> 02:04:05,844
that you wanna be treated. Mhmm. Learn and understand them. Talk to

1972
02:04:05,844 –> 02:04:09,605
them. Find out what what how do you would how would you like me

1973
02:04:09,605 –> 02:04:13,310
to to to treat you? Because sometimes, I don’t care if you’re

1974
02:04:13,310 –> 02:04:16,270
blunt and direct with me, but if you’re blunt and direct with somebody who doesn’t

1975
02:04:16,270 –> 02:04:20,030
like that, you could offend them. So you can’t treat somebody the way you wanted

1976
02:04:20,030 –> 02:04:22,755
it. You have treat them the way they wanna be treated. Now that all being

1977
02:04:22,755 –> 02:04:26,275
said, it goes to leadership and understanding your people, learning their

1978
02:04:26,275 –> 02:04:29,735
habit, learning their motivations, learning you gotta be involved.

1979
02:04:30,090 –> 02:04:33,150
You gotta lead by that example. So

1980
02:04:34,090 –> 02:04:37,805
leaders and not leaders. This is

1981
02:04:37,805 –> 02:04:41,005
the last thing I’ll say that we can close podcast thing I’ll point I’ll break

1982
02:04:41,005 –> 02:04:42,545
up, but then we can we can close.

1983
02:04:45,489 –> 02:04:49,190
There’s endless talk about problems. Yeah.

1984
02:04:49,890 –> 02:04:53,735
Endless. One of my

1985
02:04:53,735 –> 02:04:57,275
massive frustrations and and one of the core reasons I do this podcast

1986
02:04:57,895 –> 02:05:00,875
is because I’m tired of talking about problems.

1987
02:05:03,080 –> 02:05:06,920
I named off 4 of them today, right, that have

1988
02:05:06,920 –> 02:05:10,615
been well documented. Both sides of the problems have

1989
02:05:10,615 –> 02:05:14,455
been documented. All aspects of the problems have been

1990
02:05:14,455 –> 02:05:18,230
documented. And for those of you who didn’t hear that part or maybe skipped over

1991
02:05:18,230 –> 02:05:21,370
it, the fourth problems are, you know, diversity,

1992
02:05:22,630 –> 02:05:25,130
personal debt, okay, personal credit card debt,

1993
02:05:27,025 –> 02:05:30,705
COVID. Okay. And, the 4th one was,

1994
02:05:32,305 –> 02:05:35,740
I can’t remember what the 4th was. It doesn’t matter. Those goes, oh, yeah. Social

1995
02:05:35,740 –> 02:05:39,420
media fragmentation. That’s right. Social media fragmentation. Those fourth

1996
02:05:39,420 –> 02:05:42,880
problems, we have had volume after volume,

1997
02:05:42,940 –> 02:05:44,705
after volume, after And

1998
02:05:51,885 –> 02:05:55,520
what was the root? We’ve had the exploration. And what was the root. We’ve had

1999
02:05:55,520 –> 02:05:59,060
the exploration. Give me

2000
02:06:00,000 –> 02:06:00,980
a solution

2001
02:06:03,435 –> 02:06:07,114
problem. Because once you give me a

2002
02:06:07,114 –> 02:06:10,900
solution, then I have a direction. And once

2003
02:06:10,900 –> 02:06:14,500
I have a direction that I’m no longer seeing something through, like it’s a

2004
02:06:14,500 –> 02:06:18,040
transparent piece of glass, now it becomes opaque.

2005
02:06:18,605 –> 02:06:21,264
It becomes solid. It becomes,

2006
02:06:22,605 –> 02:06:26,445
solvable. All fourth those

2007
02:06:26,445 –> 02:06:30,050
problems have solutions. We may

2008
02:06:30,050 –> 02:06:33,889
not like the solution. It may not make us comfortable. It

2009
02:06:33,889 –> 02:06:37,505
may be hard to implement. I’ll grant you all of that. It

2010
02:06:37,505 –> 02:06:40,405
may gore some people’s sacred cows,

2011
02:06:43,665 –> 02:06:47,400
but it is a solution. Can’t get away from that. It may

2012
02:06:47,400 –> 02:06:50,760
not be one you like might not make you feel comfortable. It might gore your

2013
02:06:50,760 –> 02:06:54,540
sacred cow, but it is, it is a solution.

2014
02:06:54,965 –> 02:06:58,265
And when we start going to a solution based conversation,

2015
02:06:58,565 –> 02:07:02,165
fundamentally, now we can actually start

2016
02:07:02,165 –> 02:07:05,610
moving towards a goal, towards a direction.

2017
02:07:06,230 –> 02:07:09,850
Now we are now we are at a way out of chaos

2018
02:07:10,870 –> 02:07:12,890
rather than just continually

2019
02:07:14,955 –> 02:07:18,335
wandering around in a cul de sac of chaos all the time.

2020
02:07:18,795 –> 02:07:21,855
I’m tired of being in the cul de sac. I want out.

2021
02:07:23,110 –> 02:07:26,730
Well, and and and the the the positive the really

2022
02:07:26,950 –> 02:07:30,550
the super positive piece of this is as soon as you hear one

2023
02:07:30,550 –> 02:07:34,344
solution, it should open up a floodgate. Right? Like, because that’s

2024
02:07:34,344 –> 02:07:38,105
typically what happens. Somebody comes up with a solution. Somebody else says, oh,

2025
02:07:38,105 –> 02:07:41,750
I like that, but I think we should add this, or I like that, but

2026
02:07:41,750 –> 02:07:45,350
I don’t think it fixes this component of it. So we should figure out like,

2027
02:07:45,350 –> 02:07:48,490
it it all of a sudden opens up a different kind of dialogue.

2028
02:07:48,995 –> 02:07:52,215
Mhmm. That that that now all of a sudden, okay,

2029
02:07:53,315 –> 02:07:56,435
it may skew your pathway. Like, you know, you just said that at least you

2030
02:07:56,435 –> 02:08:00,180
at least you have a direction. At least you have a it might skew that

2031
02:08:00,180 –> 02:08:02,840
a little bit and open up the road a little bit.

2032
02:08:03,540 –> 02:08:07,145
But would it be a terrible thing if we found 2 or 3

2033
02:08:07,145 –> 02:08:10,505
solutions that actually would book? And now we’re trying to figure

2034
02:08:10,505 –> 02:08:14,344
out, so what gives us the best outcome of these 3 solutions? Which one

2035
02:08:14,344 –> 02:08:17,860
gives us the bet? It’s a different conversation at that point. Right. I agree with

2036
02:08:17,860 –> 02:08:21,620
you. I think a lot of the, a lot of the I I I think

2037
02:08:21,620 –> 02:08:25,125
at least 2 of the 4 that you just named, we’re not gonna

2038
02:08:25,125 –> 02:08:28,805
see solutions come for a long time. Yeah. I mean, honestly I mean, the

2039
02:08:28,805 –> 02:08:32,405
social media thing, I think we’re just creating more and more because the more every

2040
02:08:32,405 –> 02:08:35,590
time we turn around, there’s a new one. They’re you know, TikTok has,

2041
02:08:36,070 –> 02:08:39,670
opened up a completely different door of challenges that Facebook didn’t have.

2042
02:08:39,670 –> 02:08:42,409
And now Facebook saw that, and they said we can do that. And

2043
02:08:43,305 –> 02:08:47,145
social media, I think, is going to be I think we’re the solution to the

2044
02:08:47,145 –> 02:08:50,739
social media dilemma is better parenting. And I think

2045
02:08:50,739 –> 02:08:54,260
until somebody tells parents that they need to be better

2046
02:08:54,260 –> 02:08:58,020
parents, that’s not gonna fix itself. Social media’s never gonna

2047
02:08:58,020 –> 02:09:01,225
fix itself. And we’re certainly not gonna police it because you got all the people

2048
02:09:01,225 –> 02:09:05,065
complaining about the first amendment first amendment infringement and all this other stuff that happens.

2049
02:09:05,065 –> 02:09:08,570
So people are afraid. They’re afraid to fix the social media problem, but

2050
02:09:11,690 –> 02:09:12,090
but I think we can if we get better parenting out of it. So, like,

2051
02:09:12,090 –> 02:09:14,829
if we get if we can get these younger parents to understand

2052
02:09:15,449 –> 02:09:19,205
that that social media is

2053
02:09:19,205 –> 02:09:22,425
a problem and that you need to help your kids solve it,

2054
02:09:23,284 –> 02:09:26,560
I I don’t I think that’s gonna be the that that’s the only solution I

2055
02:09:26,560 –> 02:09:30,159
can see forward from it, from this at least the social media part. There’s another

2056
02:09:30,159 –> 02:09:33,040
one in there that there’s another one in there that I thought I I think

2057
02:09:33,040 –> 02:09:35,835
very similarly Tom we don’t have to go into all of them, but but there

2058
02:09:35,915 –> 02:09:38,955
but there’s there’s another one in there at the at the very least 2 of

2059
02:09:38,955 –> 02:09:42,495
the 4 that you mentioned. I think that’s I think that

2060
02:09:42,635 –> 02:09:46,440
parenting is the problem there. Yeah. Not the government, not

2061
02:09:46,555 –> 02:09:50,179
leadership. The leadership comes from within at that point. It’s the who’s

2062
02:09:50,340 –> 02:09:54,055
what’s the leadership structure look like within the home? How do you start

2063
02:09:54,135 –> 02:09:57,655
teaching your kids to be just human beings and better

2064
02:09:57,655 –> 02:10:01,095
people? Like How very pre modern of you,

2065
02:10:01,095 –> 02:10:04,880
Tom. I don’t know. Maybe I’m

2066
02:10:04,960 –> 02:10:06,880
You know what? You know what? Well, you know what? You know what? What can

2067
02:10:06,880 –> 02:10:08,420
I say? Do you see the gray hair?

2068
02:10:10,960 –> 02:10:14,604
You’ve you’ve you’ve seen a few sunsets and a few surprises.

2069
02:10:14,965 –> 02:10:17,224
New summers. New summers.

2070
02:10:19,240 –> 02:10:23,000
I often say this and I’ll close with this. I’ve been saying this a

2071
02:10:23,000 –> 02:10:26,440
lot lately. Postmodern problems require pre modern

2072
02:10:26,440 –> 02:10:29,165
solutions And

2073
02:10:29,945 –> 02:10:33,545
we, we ignore those pre modern

2074
02:10:33,545 –> 02:10:37,040
solutions because we think we’re more sophisticated and there’s

2075
02:10:37,040 –> 02:10:40,720
nothing fourth, there’s nothing harder to break than the iron

2076
02:10:40,720 –> 02:10:44,320
triangle of like arrogance deceit, and then just like

2077
02:10:44,320 –> 02:10:48,165
resentment. And but you but you’ve gotta break that iron

2078
02:10:48,165 –> 02:10:51,465
triangle if you wanna actually get to a solution to a problem.

2079
02:10:51,925 –> 02:10:55,290
Listen, Occam’s razor has been around for eon. Right?

2080
02:10:55,290 –> 02:10:58,510
Oh, gotcha. Yes. Yep. And it still applies today.

2081
02:10:59,530 –> 02:11:03,324
Most Tom, the simplest answer is probably the right one. Probably the

2082
02:11:03,324 –> 02:11:06,784
right one. So why are we trying to overcomplicate and over sophisticate

2083
02:11:07,485 –> 02:11:10,945
every single problem we encounter? Sometimes it really is simple.

2084
02:11:13,190 –> 02:11:16,630
And with that, I’d like to thank you for listening to the

2085
02:11:16,630 –> 02:11:19,610
Leadership Lessons from The Great Books podcast today,

2086
02:11:20,415 –> 02:11:22,995
And, well, Tom and I are out.